This is an all ears English podcast, Episode 15, 08, First Lady, Second, gentlemen, should titles evolve over time?

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast downloaded more than 150 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American hosts. Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York Radio Girl coming to you from Colorado and New York City U. S a and to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to all ears. English dot com forward slash subscribe.

Today is Inauguration Day in the U.S. and because we have a female vice president, we will have a second. Gentlemen, for the first time today will review an article and give you our opinions on gender roles and titles and how they might change as society evolves. Listening today.

Hey, Lindsay, how are you? Hey, Michelle, doing great. How are you? I'm good. Well, today is a very, very, very special day in the States. Yeah. And I guess before we go into this, we should warn our listeners, inevitably, our political views will come out today in this episode, guys. So if you don't appreciate that, if you disagree, if you just don't want to hear it, we understand.

Just don't listen to today's episode. It's that simple because today is Inauguration Day and it's a big deal for us. And I think it in the entire world, honestly, it is a big deal.

Michelle, for what reasons, though?

Oh, so many reasons. Well, it's Inauguration Day, right? So that means that Joe Biden is officially the president. I believe it's at 12:00 noon today, the president of the United States.

And we have a new vice president and it is the first female vice president and it is Kamala Harris.

Oh, that's so exciting. You know, to be honest, it's so funny because, you know, this whole time the election honestly was just so darn stressful. There was a period of like a week or so where we weren't sure who the winner was.

And finally, when Joe Biden was declared the winner then is when we all realized, oh, my gosh, we have a first female vice president of color as well.

Yeah, right. And and so it was just one thing after another in a positive way that we talked about that expression yesterday. Yeah.

But it just felt like, wow, this is a big event and let's pronounce her name because everybody should know how to pronounce it, because sometimes people have trouble or sometimes people don't try.

I'm not naming names, but her name is pronounced Kamala. I love that you said that, Michelle. Fantastic, because I do every day here people even people I know in my circle here in Colorado pronouncing it wrong. And we do. We should know how to pronounce that. Make the effort. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. It was so excited. It's exciting because I recently saw an interview with her and it was it was the first time I heard someone really call her Madam Vice President Elect. This is before, you know, of course, she became VP. And it was very emotional to hear that.

Wow, I think she's I really admire her. I'm very excited about it. So, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I remember, you know, speaking of, you know, leaders of color, I remember when Barack Obama was elected and that obviously brought tears to my eyes and a lot of us just wept. I know when he was elected just because it felt like such a milestone. And now this is a woman of color. Right? So it's just it's a it's a big deal for our country. For sure.

For sure. So, yeah, we're going to talk a little bit about titles with this today. So one interesting thing is, so normally the spouse of the president in the U.S. is called the first lady.

Right. So Jill Biden is going is the first lady right? And the VP spouse is usually the second lady.

But the thing is now we have a woman, a female as the VP.

Yeah, and just a side point. We've mentioned this before, Michelle. But guys, there's a great series, I think, as CNN First Ladies are right. So now they're going to have to do something special. They're for for. Oh, of course it's not. It's yeah, it's the first generally for the president's spouse. But we do have a little bit of a change here, right?

Right. Yeah, I think so.

Douglas Imhoff is the spouse is the husband of Kamala Harris.

So this is the first time that we're going to have a man in one of these positions.

And so, guys, there is an article about this, about language and about how it evolves over time with this particular situation.

So, yeah, this is this is huge, guys. So we're going to talk about that in just a second.

But first, so we get Lindsey, we did talk about First Ladies, the documentary and guys, if you want to hear more about that, that was all in English, 14 87. How to talk about important moments in history in English.

Yeah, really interesting. And that series is really cool because you can go behind the scenes, learn about Nancy Reagan and the influence she had on the Reagan administration. Jackie Kennedy, of course, is another good one. I mean, really good stuff. You can learn a lot about American history, world history and the presidents themselves. So. Absolutely.

So before we say the name of the article, do we want to remind our listeners of something happening tonight?

Oh, my gosh. Is tonight the Web class? That is so exciting. Michelle, guys, don't miss our webcast tonight. Michelle and Aubrey on there together for the first time. First time they've done a webcast together. And you guys are going to learn native natural slang, right? That's what it's all about to build the connection.

Michelle, where should they go to sign up all its English dot com slang, SLA and G?

So that's either tonight, January 20th, or you can come January twenty third. And the important thing to keep in mind, guys, is we do not record these Web classes.

So that means that if you miss it tonight, if you. They said Saturday, you'll never see it, it's gone, poof, into the air disappeared. So don't miss it, don't miss it, go to English dot com slang.

OK, so perfect. So this article is from the lily dotcom and we'll get the link on the blog. It's by Caroline Kitchener. I think I said that correctly.

It was written published November 12th and it says the title is Should We Quit saying First Lady Doug Imhoff could help with that.

Interesting. Interesting. OK, so we're going to review this article a little bit today, summarize it, giving credit to the author, of course, guys.

And then we're going to add our own little spin in our opinion on it, Michelle.

Yeah, exactly. We're going to briefly explain the article and some of the some of the main things from it.

So, yeah, so basically people in the article that, you know, are interviewed or mentioned things in the article, they they kind of think these I mean, I would say the majority of the people I think everybody actually from reading it thinks these titles are a little silly.

It talks about how, you know, first ladies are kind of known for well or in the past or known for planning parties or also even now like having a cause.

I mean, so for Michelle Obama, it was the let's move right. Against childhood obesity. I think Laura Bush was about literacy and children.

Right. And then Hillary Clinton. Yeah.

Nancy Reagan was anti-drug. Right.

And what was Hillary Clinton's thing that she did when she was do you remember Hillary Clinton?

I don't know. I'm not even sure she had a cause, but she was just like very, very, very involved.

Like, she really took the the position to to another level, I think. Yeah.

I think she may have been working on health care, actually universal maybe that I think.

Yeah, but she was I mean, she's a politician in general, so that's a little bit different. But yeah, true.

They always have some particular topic and usually there's a tendency to choose something that is not political, not partisan, partisan.

Everyone agrees that kids should be eating more healthy and be moving more nutrition. Childhood obesity is important.

Right. For example. Right. Right, right. Exactly.

Yeah. So, I mean, the question is, you know, I mean. Well, Lindsay, do you have a favorite first lady? Oh, my gosh. That's a good question.

I don't think I do. Actually, I. I don't think I have a favor.

I think Michelle Obama is pretty good, though. That's because. Yeah. You know, she's like another level and she's admirable.

Like, I feel like I can look up to her as a leader. Yeah.

And she also isn't very political. Yeah. Yeah.

I really I really love her. I really admire her. And she and I share a name so it's exciting. There you go. So anyway, yeah, we love Michelle Obama but OK, so I mean.

Yeah. What do we do. Are we going to call Doug Imhoff second gentleman. And I mean he can't be he's not going to be second lady. Right. So they've been calling him second gentleman like leading up to the election.

And I actually did hear Camilla actually declare it even after I read this article, say that he'll probably be second gentleman or he will be. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's interesting to think of, like, because it sounds kind of funny. Second gentleman like gentleman sounds so formal.

Yeah. I mean it's true, but we're not the first country that's had that's had to think about this. Right. I'm sure guys. I mean we know that in New Zealand you have Jacinda Ardern as the prime minister and of course, Angela Merkel in Germany. I mean, let us know, guys, you know, right in to the blog and let us know. What do you how do you address that person in that position?

Yeah, right.

Right, right, right. Well, actually, the article did mention something about it. I mean, not for many countries, but it said that's apparently some other countries don't have this, like they might even just use the person's name.

So like they might say, just call them Dr. Biden or Mr. Imhoff. Right. Like in the media. So the article didn't mention something about that. But I mean, that's they didn't mention everywhere. So I am curious to hear about other countries. Yeah. Really care is interesting.

OK, what else, Michelle, what else do we learn from this article and what can we. Yeah.

Eyes later today on January 20th, we will have our free live webcast. Have you signed up yet. Learn native slang that cannot be found in any textbook. Spots are limited and the web class won't be recorded. So you definitely don't want to miss this first class of the year. Go to all ears, English dot com forward slash slang to sign up today. All ears, English dot com forward slash SLA and G.

Well, it also mentioned that Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, used the title Mrs. President and Jackie O. Kennedy's wife used Mrs. Kennedy. So there's been some experimentation over the years.

And one thing that I love is that Jill Biden is going to be working as a teacher even as she is the first lady.

Yeah, I love that. And she is a she's a Ph.D., right? I mean, so she has Dr. Biden.

And I think at some point there was an anecdote that Joe Biden had made some kind of a joke like she's the doctor and I just I work for her or something like that. And that totally sounds like something you would say to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love it. So this is something interesting from the article. They actually had a tweet me and I just want us to read this tweet and talk about it.

Some guy named Jill Filho.

Philip Filipovic. OK, I'm sorry, guys.

Well, we'll get that to you. She tweeted this. It said, I'm all for retiring stupid terms like first lady and second lady.

But I am also going to be annoyed if we only do it because suddenly a man is in the role and it would be demeaning to call him the second gentleman.

Oh, stuck in the middle somewhere.

So that's interesting because, you know, we're saying we're bringing about change, but this person believes like, oh, well, y you know, like, let's change it. But it's not fair now that we just do it because it's awkward for the two U.S. gentlemen.

Why did it have to take this moment? Why couldn't we have done this generations ago? And guys, just there's a lot we can learn. Just a side bonus here for our listeners.

Michelle, what we can learn from tweets, this person started this by saying I'm all for them and I don't want to overlook that.

That's a really nice bonus. So, again, what does that mean?

I'm all for it means I believe in this or like I'm okay with this. I'm I'm behind it. I support it. Yeah, really good one. Guys, write that down today. That's a bonus for you. Cool.

Definitely. Definitely.

So, Lindsay, what do you think about that? Oh, my gosh.

In a sense, I agree. Why does it take so, you know, a man to feel uncomfortable now and maybe it's been a little demeaning all along. Right. Why couldn't we have changed it a while ago at the same time? Change happens when it does. We've been talking about change around gender. And we did a few episodes an episode a few weeks ago last week about this topic of gender and language. So society pushes us forward and we kind of have to react when it comes.

Right, right.

Right. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, and I do think, like I said, I do believe that he will be called second gentleman. So I don't think I think even when this article is written, they didn't know. But I have heard he will be second gentleman.

So but I mean, it just it definitely does make you think about what will the titles be in the future?

Should we stay with those titles like As First Lady?

Kind of a funny name, like, should we just use the person's name? Shall we just say Dr. Biden? So but it's so ingrained in our culture.

I mean, I think we're so used to hearing, oh, the first lady or even I mean, even not just with presidents. I mean, like even a mayor, his wife.

It's usually the first lady of the town. Right. Right. Sure.

Yeah. A lot less comment to say that. But yeah, that's true. Usually there's like a governor's mansion. Right. At least here in Colorado. There is. In Denver. Yeah. Really interesting. I mean, we'll see what happens. I'm just excited that Inauguration Day is happening. You know what? The change that's happening, I think the entire world is has been watching this, Michelle.

You can tell it all by my voice.

Yes, I am very I'm very pleased for many reasons, not only because I am I was not for the other presidents, President Trump, but also because I'm inspired by, you know, the two leaders that we will be having Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and, you know, as a woman to watch a woman and to I mean, especially. Yes, she's a woman. She's a woman of color. I mean, and this is really, really, really special.

So I hope that a lot of people can look up to her. Yeah.

It's a big moment for our country, big moment for the world. Everyone's going to be watching super exciting guys. Let us know if you have any comments on this episode, your thoughts on what should happen with this title. You know, come back to the blog all every English dot com and it's 15. 08 is the episode number.

OK, very cool. OK, Lindsay.

Yeah, well, this has been fun. And I do want to point out one thing before we go.

Sometimes we say first lady of something when it's just someone who is kind of like at the highest level.

Right.

So, for example, Ella Fitzgerald, I've heard her be called the first lady of song or the first lady of jazz. So that's different. OK, that's a good point. Yeah. I wonder if there are more examples of that. Yeah. So. First lady of some kind of craft is what you're saying, Michelle, right, exactly. So sometimes it's kind of like a like a very formal or like. Wow, like she's the first lady of jazz, right.

So, yeah. I love that.

I love. Exactly. Exactly. So and we do have a takeaway for our listeners today, though, don't we? Absolutely.

Guys, this is a huge topic. Go ahead. Read that article. We gave you some just some of the points, but we really wanted to talk about our own opinions on this.

This is a good conversation topic, right? This is all about American culture. It's about language and power and gender and how language evolves over time.

I mean, maybe in 50 years will be looking back and saying, really, we used first lady.

That's weird, right? But yeah, maybe it'll be the same. So and definitely come back.

And in the blog, let us know how spouses are titled in your country, spouses of, you know, government officials.

Yeah. It also kind of leads a bit of a tangential topic, guys. Is this idea of institutions evolving over time? Right. I mean, right now, I think we mentioned this before. I'm watching the Crown, that series.

I have to watch that.

Oh, it's fascinating. You should watch it, Michelle. We should do a couple episodes.

Maybe we'll do a series on that on that series and this idea of probing at the idea of, you know, should this institution change in what way or should it say the same? Really interesting. Yeah. OK, yes.

I've heard a lot of good things. I will have to watch it. All right. Very cool.

And guys, go and sign up right now for that Web class, because the first step, you need the slang to connect on that high, high level.

Michelle, where should they go? Is English dotcom slang spelling.

So you guys are the Web class. All right. Thanks, Michelle. Bye bye.

Thanks for listening to all ears English. If you are taking Eilts this year, get your estimated Vänskä with our two minute quiz. Go to all ears English dotcom slash my score. And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit. Subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time.