Welcome to NFL Daily. I'm Greg Rosenthal, and I am beyond lucky today to be joined by Patrick Claybon and Jordan Rodrigue of the Athletic on our maiden voyage for this show here, NFL daily in the Chris Wesseling podcast studio. So this offseason's been a lot. I'm going to talk a little bit first, guys, before bringing you in. It's got me thinking what, what brings joy in life and in football? And we're going to talk about that with our segment coming up in the show. But before I do get to you guys, I do want to start by addressing the obvious that this is not the around the NFL podcast that we taped our last episode of around the NFL on May 23, and it was a total shock to all of us. And it was very difficult that that was the last show that we're not going to do another. And I know that's going to inspire a lot of emotions from our listeners, from you guys, from anyone that's worked on it. For myself, of course. I get it. I've been going through them, too, for really six weeks now since we did that last show.

I still am. We'll go through them together. I love Dan and Mark, and what we built together with Chris was beyond special. Keisha, Chris's wife, said it perfectly on IG yesterday, that we will always be family and nothing can take away what we accomplished together. I do just want to thank everyone, especially the listeners, but also everyone in this room, you two, and that's ever been in this room. You know who you are and who's in the control room back there and who's been in the control room over the years, whether it's in Culver City or here. And the listeners, too, because y'all helped you change all of our lives. You know, you made something so special with us, and you felt like it was always us together. And you stuck with us after Chris died. And we tried not to ask for too much along the way. But I do want to ask for something now, and that's the support the hell out of Mark and Dan and what they're going to do next. And I love them. I always will. And I want you to support this show, too. Give it a chance.

Give both shows some grace and be cool NFL dailies. It's not gonna be the same show. It's not. It can't be. I wouldn't want it to be. It's gonna be different, and we'll get into how, you know, that's gonna be different, but it's gonna be a great show, too. Like, I'm really excited, as you would say, jordan, like, two things can be true. You know, we can miss that, and this is gonna be something we're gonna be really proud of, and I hope y'all that are listening are, too. I'm looking forward to working with so many people. Colleen's gonna be back on the show next week when she gets back in town, and we got steve weisch and nick shook on the show tomorrow. And, of course, you, jordan, like, welcoming you here. It's really exciting to me and patrick. There's no one I love working more with than y'all. Uh, that's it. I'll. I'll let you guys talk a little bit, too.

Well, no, I guess. Thank you. From the standpoint of obviously, personally, and, you know, I've said this to you, but from the standpoint of a. Of a listener, right. Because, like, you get. You get guests on a podcast, and the relationship is kind of fundamentally different. And so I felt, right and feel all the things that a lot of people are feeling, and then, like, to have this tangential attachment to what you guys built by just being in your vicinity, like, over on West Washington Boulevard all the way to over here, has just. It's been something to experience. And, like, when I think about how much the show means to so many people, I have to remind myself that there's four people in four families who the show means so much more to. Right. And, of course, when you're experiencing those emotions, you like, I'm sitting here in the Chris Wessling podcast studio, right? What you guys built, it provides people with a level of openness and vulnerability and understanding that a lot of people don't get in real life, much less surrounding the discussion of football. Right. And so, doing that, it grew the game.

And there's all these initiatives, all of these discussions about how to make the game international, how to accomplish these things. I can't think of a better way to protect the shield than to have more people carrying it. And that's what you guys did, and you don't get that in an excel spreadsheet or an earnings report. There's a quality to that, that the reason that people feel the emotions that they're feeling is because they felt that. And so I love you guys, and as you said, I hope that people are able to get two properties that they can listen to and be a part of an extended family. But I just.

Sorry.

What you guys did is incredible and should be celebrated and in any way that we can you know? Cause I haven't known how to react. Right. Like, I haven't really known what to say or where to be. And people ask questions, and it's just like, this was incredible, and I'm glad to have experienced it and been a small part of it.

Yeah, we've had at least, like, a little time since taping that show. I appreciate all that, Patrick, to process it a little, but obviously, letting everyone know, letting the listeners know this week, it's just different. And we're going to get to the football of it all. But, yeah, I do want to hear from you, too, Jordan.

Yeah, I mean, it's that openness that you guys created that it's going to make it really hard for me to get through this next couple seconds here. But it's also that space that you guys created that allows me to be able to try. Right. Like, the listeners of this show know I am one of them. I've been one of them. I've been, you know, lurking in all the same places they've been lurking for years and years. I've been listening this podcast to me, that you and Mark and Dan and Chris, the heroes that you guys created, that so many other people created, it got me through some really hard stuff. And I don't think for a long time you guys knew that the space you created and the safety you created for people to come in and just sit with people who they thought were a good hang and they liked listening to. But then that space became really an open door into this thing that so many of us are passionate about. And for all the words that we can't use sometimes to describe it, because we don't know how, we would turn to you guys, and I would turn to Wes, and football was a closed door for me in a lot of ways, for a long time.

And the way that he talked about football and the way that he wrote, because that's what I found first that opened the door for me. And I never got to tell him that. But I was here a couple months ago, Greg, and I know you saw me staring at the door of the studio and having a moment. And after we recorded that show, I had to tell all of you guys what that meant for me. That was why I was so nervous. The fan base was so nice. I was so nervous. I'm so freaking nervous still. Like, I am terrified, because this is really hard, because it matters. This mattered so much to me, and it mattered so much to so many people, and it mattered to you four and your families, and I want to preserve that. I did not have. I did not build the house that we're sitting in right now. I didn't. I watched, and I enjoyed, and I supported from afar. And I think now I'm getting tapped on the shoulder in a very small capacity to support up close everybody, to support you, to support Mark, to support Dan.

And I'm going to do that because finding this show opened a door to football for me in a way that I didn't know was possible. Football, to me, is my purpose on this earth, and all I can do is pay this forward to you, to mark, to Dan, to everybody, as best I can. As much as you'll have me, as much as they'll have me. I just want to help keep that door open for people who were like me, who still are like me, who doesn't matter what you look like, where you come from, your knowledge level. I want to help keep that door open. And that's why I'm sitting here. That's why I continue to support you. That's why I continue to support those two guys and will until I'm done on this planet, because that changed my life.

So, like, beautiful and bittersweet and just life, man. And this happens so much when I think about the impact Chris has had on all of us that you're saying those words and sitting in that seat and everything in his studio, because, like, how you approach football, it reminds me of Wes. Like, that's one of the reasons I was really. I've told you this before, but it's one of the reasons why I wanted you to come on the show initially. It's why I'm so excited that you're part of this show. When you say football is your purpose on this earth, it can mean everything to us, and we also kind of can put it to the side that it means nothing. And it's just this thing where incredibly passionate about the way you see the game, that you want to understand it. Cause I do think it's the one thing. This is gonna be my 21st season doing football since I started at Rotoworld, and I still love it so much. And we're gonna get to what we're really looking forward to in this season shortly. But, like, the gap, and this is. Was when I started.

What I realized after three or four months. Cause I loved all sports was, like, the gap between what we know and what we don't is so much greater than any other sport. And trying to, like, fill that gap is what gets me really excited and excited about NFL daily that it's, it's gonna be different, but, like, we're gonna have this journey and it's been a lot this off season. Thank you, everyone that's listening for your patience, too. Cause I know it's been silent and the uncertainty was tough. And, like, I wanna be, like, really open in this show when we do these shows and just honest and, like, look full, full transparency. Like my family was going through, you know, some serious health issues that very uncertain during all this. And when this happened, you know, that that was part, that was part of everything, part of the decisions and what I'm gonna do. And I'm so happy. Like, there's, like, great news on that front recently and, man, like, this week, like, the sun's been shining better and, and food is tasting better and it all puts it in perspective of, you know, what, what matters in life and that football can matter.

As Stu, as stupid as it is, like, I find joy in this football thing you guys do. I couldn't quit it if I tried. And so we're going to. We're going to celebrate it and try to figure it out and talk about what we are looking forward to and the joy that we're going to get out of this season as training camps start to get going next week. And we'll do that in our first segment after the break. Okay, we are back on NFL daily and apologize for that hard transition from whatever ad just played to what we said ahead of the break and what we're going to say now, too, which I'm really excited about. It's been a minute, it's been a minute since we podcasted Patrick and Jordan. Obviously you, too. And, like, we're close. The Texans are showing up next week, and I was debating, like, whether we get back in the studio, you know, this week, next week, I want to get ready to go and I wanted to, like, set this first segment up of just like, what are we looking forward to? Like, what is the things during this off season?

For me, that's how I thought about it during this offseason, which been a little challenging, obviously, but I still been staying on top of the football of it all. Like, what am I looking forward to the most? What I, what do I think is going to give me the most joy as we are looking ahead to the 2024 season? And I want to start this with Patrick Claybon.

It's over. The common theme with all the things that I'm looking forward to is, most of it is uncertainty. I like that because pushing back towards this idea of how much we don't know. Right. Part of the things that you were talking about earlier. So last season, only 19 teams converted more than 50% of their fourth down attempts. And I say only because in the two previous years, it was 23 and 24. We raved about how good the Eagles were at fourth down. Last season, they finished at 73%. The year before, the Rams had the lead at 78%.

When you think they had the lead.

At the one thing that the 2022 Rams were good at, I think, right. It would go back to 2018. Anthony Lynn's Chargers converted 87% of their fourth down attempts. They only went for it eight times. They got seven of them. The. The idea of how going forward on fourth down is always better is slowly starting to not become better. Uh, because I think teams are getting better at defending all of these fourth down attempts. And so it's pushing towards this uncertainty of what's going to happen at fourth down. It's all a cycle, and I'm just. I'm excited to see that cycle start to come to its fruition. And maybe we're getting to a point where maybe less than half of the league is converting 50%. I don't know, but it's going to be fun.

So I'm shocked, actually. I'm being serious. That clay bond started with, like, sort of an analytic bent to it.

Make me cry a second time what.

He'S looking forward to, because I hear those numbers and I still think, okay, we got a little ways to go. Like, okay, I mean, you're saying only 19 teams are over 50%. It's like, okay, that's still pretty good. And some of those percentages are pretty high. But you do speak to, what's the. The natural evolution of anything analytic or the moneyball effect. When baseball started that way, it's like, yeah, once every team starts doing the same thing, then it is increasingly less effective and you have to pivot. I think we're seeing that now in team building. When you think about the off ball linebacker position, like, the analytical model of building your team and kind of not worrying about off ball linebackers was so copied until you got to the playoffs last year. And maybe the last couple of years, it's like, you can point to so many teams, like the Cowboys would be one, certainly the Eagles. And you can point to all these teams that keep losing in the playoffs, and you're like, literally the entire game plan that the other team was making is because your off ball linebackers are bad. And then you kind of look at, like, who's got the best ball linebackers.

They're the best teams in football. They're the best defenses in football. So I hear you. On the fourth down, teams will have to adjust on their short yardage strategy and come up with new stuff. I feel like we still have some. I don't want to be. I don't want to stop calling for fourth downs, I guess is my issue. Yeah, like going for.

I will still be calling for certain coaches who typically don't go for it on fourth down to go for it on fourth down.

What team do you cover on a regular basis?

Speaking the off ball linebacker thing, we actually call that the Shanna plan. You know, circle the other team's middle linebacker and then just spam that player mercilessly over and over and then, like, laugh behind the play card that you're doing it. But I think it's interesting because when you see changes like that, when you see teams get really good at going forward on fourth down and also more teams who are understanding analytics meets. Sorry, Patrick, but momentum, feel and flow of the game, when you're seeing the analytics meet some of these very stereotypical coaching principles, that's the shift that you're starting to see a little bit. You're seeing more and more of that. Again, we joke about it, but Sean McVice, Sean McVeigh hired stretch out of Tennessee, and he's like one of the game management guys in the league. And even so, he even he is, who is like one of the most conservative.

He's a one name guy.

John Striker, Rihanna. Stretch is easier because I always say, is it stretcher? Is it striker? And he is tall. So stretch.

Well, that's because. Did they try to hire you first or. Well, because I, because Jordan's too, too humble about this. But, like, her getting on them about their fourth down decisions and, like, writing an article about it every week. Every week. But there was one, I remember in particular last year where you really did it. Like, there was a pretty clear before that article and after that article of, like, how often Sean McVeigh was going for.

I'm just saying that's to get back to the point.

Well, that's true. That's not the first time I'm going to interrupt your, your point.

Praise deflection is Jordan's number one skill.

Spinning praise. Like, love your, love your shirt, Patrick, by the way, spinning praise is this. Yeah.

Like a ninja move.

Yeah. So. But I think the more teams get used to the fact that this is going to be the wave now in the NFL, like what? What I don't think a lot of people on the outside see is that you literally are starting to structure practices different. You're literally starting to build more time in, not just for a more full play sheet, more full play design out of a fourth down bucket, so to speak. Do you sort of like that lingo? You know, you don't often have time to build out a full, malleable and adjustable evolvable fourth down plan in traditional and typical punt on fourth down kind of situations for practice, there is no time in the week. It's not criticizing the coaches who don't do it. And for a long time mostly wasn't or hasn't I. It's just that there's no time during the week. You gotta get to red zone, for God's sake. You gotta walk to the bus and install things as you go. You gotta troubleshoot during walkthroughs, like all of these different things. The week of preparation is so, it's so tight to fit all of those things in.

Well, now what you're starting to see, and I heard about this, this off season, is more teams building out that scheduled time. It's kind of similar. We're gonna talk about it. The kickoff, the new kickoff. Building more time during the week, not just for what you're going to do on fourth down. And all the situationals that you're going to build into the natural part of the weekly plan, instead of those guys are in another department on the other side of the building. No, they're in the coaching rooms now. And that's growing across the league. And then also, you're seeing by proxy, teams are getting better at defending it because there's more tape. There's more tape on what you're going to potentially do. There's more data, there's more situations. So if you are seeing that and everything springs back.

So basically everyone's just becoming more like Bill Belichick's been for like 40 years.

It took, what, 20 minutes for you to bring up Bill Belichick? I'm just saying I thought we might.

I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit. All I'm saying is that I think they prepped game management situations on a more consistent and specific level than other teams were. Like when I'm even talking about the Giants back in the eighties and nineties and the Patriots, and that's all. Not that he was perfect about it or that it's all like, it's not about the analytics of it all. But I think how you build the weak, they literally just spent more time doing that stuff than other teams. I know this because every player that's left there is like, we spent way more time on this stuff.

The culture of communication, I think, in the league has changed a lot.

Yeah, I agree.

And so you're not necessarily gonna have something like a Bill Belichick maybe taking criticism from the outside and applying it right to. Whereas now there's more communication about the way that people operate. I think people share more now, more information available. And so while you could bemoan people, quote unquote, like analytics is this all consuming monster that does everything. Everybody does it differently and everybody applies it differently. And you can have the Shanahan tree coaching half the league, but it can still be different because of the. Everything is this meta analysis and then we get the analysis of the analysis and it just creates more uncertainty, which.

Is football to that point, though. Like we have so much cool information and so much cool math and like, it is so such an awesome tool, but nothing actually changes and shifts like what you're noticing until the actual tangible functionality of how the week is planned shifts. And I'm talking scheme, I'm talking position value, I'm talking anything. It doesn't actually start to shift that way until they build and structure tangible things that create those changes that can. You can. You have to rep it. You have to rep it and rep it and rep it and rep it. And then you start seeing like these things trickle out of buildings during training camps, joint practices. I think across the league are going to be huge this year because that's what's going to bring me a lot of joy because we're going to watch the kickoffs.

This one of your things?

This is one of my things.

All right, let's get to it.

Yes, the new kickoff. I did get to watch like, practices of the new kickoff this spring. It rules. Really, it's chaos. Nobody knows what they're doing yet, but it rules. But the thing that I wanted to point out is, you see, I don't have the specific numbers. I'm failing Patrick already. I don't have the specific numbers in front of me. But you're seeing an increase in scheduled joint practices. A huge reason for that in my theory is people need a clean, like a clean sheet, a clean practice, a safe practice with some contact to practice the new kickoff in. And they don't want to show that tape. Across the league, a couple special teams coordinators were around talking like the first team that figures this out is going to have such an advantage on different teams. And it brought me a lot of joy watching it because it just looks so.

You get something so weird.

It's just. But it was.

This is it. This is what we always talk about on this show. This is like if you went back and listened to, and I'll do this a few times. This is our first show. This is what we used to talk about around the NFL, like first season, like Wes and I would always, like, talk about, like, why doesn't the NFL innovate more? Why doesn't the NFL change more? Like, like. And they do compared to other sports, like, their ability to change, I think. I don't know it. I'm very excited about this, too.

Yeah, it's chaos. Cause the kickers, they compare it to, like, so if you're thinking about, I guess, golf clubs, which I don't golf, but it is interesting to think about, they're switching different cleats out and trying to see, okay, this, like, moldable to my foot, soccer cleat on my right foot and then a regular football cleat on my left foot. And like, that's the plant foot. And then it's like, you know, using different clubs that are in your bag to have placement, to have precision, to do different things for your return unit, essentially. And then on the other side, I mean, I just think you're going to see people try some wild stuff. You're hearing buzziness about, like, outside linebackers, returning puns.

I am a little worried there's going to be, there's so much talk of, like, how crazy it is and are they going to get there and chicken out. But I'm with you, don't chicken out.

This is my message to special teams coordinators across the nation. Do, do, do, do, do, or our team's going to add on this. I'm shaking my finger at you, Patrick, but don't. I'm so hyped about this because watching them practice and, like, what it could possibly be, what it could turn into. And Bones fossil, who used to coach for the Rams, now in Dallas, he was like the .1 of the point people on this and hearing him in the little back hallways of league meetings and before the votes and explaining it to coaches, explaining it to owners, not just the safety element of it, but also leading to more scoring. I mean, you've got an offensive trending league. If you just say to more than half the coaches in the league, you could score more points this way, then automatically, you know, they start to, they start to pivot toward that. But, but the way that teams can do it, you're, you're running. It's almost like, um, you're running run game plays. Like you're running a. Like you're seeing counter, you're seeing duo like. But in the kick return stuff. Like it's, it's really, really interesting, I'm telling you.

And I think it also, to your point earlier, I do think it helps with the international presence, too, because you're going to see people try stuff. You're going to see, oh, can this rugby player come do this for us? And that's, that's his role. And he's like a call up on the roster.

I can't wait for it. It will create a higher scoring average. Now I'm thinking, I wonder if that was part of the pitch and why it did get through. Not because it's necessarily going to be that effective. That's really hard to predict exactly, but because the field position is just going to be better. Because so many people, this is what I worry about is just going to take the kickoff to the 30 that they're, that they're gonna accept, you know, the touchback and everything, and that field position is just gonna be increased. But then you're gonna deal with that.

You have to cut off a 10th of your play sheet. If you're an offensive minded coach and you're saying, okay, we'll accept, we'll acquiesce to the third. Like, you're gonna cut, you're cutting off like a 10th or a 12th of your play sheet at that point. So why, you know, if you want, you want everything wide open for you, right, and all of that. But I, but I do think like, the reason why you're seeing, to circle back, you're seeing these joint practices get scheduled against a wide variety of people because you can't show that tape to anyone else. You can get as close to live action football as possible in a practice setting. So within the safety guidelines and all of that, but still some contact and you won't really know what any of this it is why I compare it to the run game so much like, you don't actually know what any of this is going to look like until you, until you hit somebody, until you have pads on and do it. But they also don't want to do this. They don't want to show what they've got. Like offensive coaches, defensive coaches, they, they want to be super vanilla in the preseason because if they happen to find, you know, that one thing, they don't want 31 other teams to see it.

It's like, okay, if it's two non conference opponents who see it, fine.

And it's kind of like, it's. It's like a lot of things with the NFL, we won't really, really know until the season starts. But that makes me.

That's what I love.

Really excited about it. I do want to have Sam Schwartzstein on this show. He's been on it before, actually. He works on the TNF prime video, and he did a recap with me last year, but he helped write this rule for the XFL because I don't want to say too much about it. Cause I did spend. I don't know if you'll find this sad or lonely.

I'll probably find it sad.

I definitely watched 30 minutes of this one night at, like, one in the morning when I couldn't sleep, and it didn't help me. It didn't help me kind of figure out how this is all going to work. It's very confusing to me. So I feel like I need to see more.

Well, I think that we're going to see, even when we do finally see it, it's going. There's going to be meta trends that happen over the course of several weeks, and they're going to be tight lipped about it. And I'm sure, like, reporters are going to get scolded for video of a kickoff, and when it's like, you know, it's like apartment building.

Trying to goad me into sending him a video. No, I'm just kidding.

I don't. I don't know. Including the special team coaches, because you're talking about chicken. Now, I know a lot of times special teams coaches get to be the sacrificial lamb, right? And you're gonna have somebody give up a couple of touchdowns and maybe. And so, like, it's gonna be super safe and, you know, I. We don't know how it's gonna turn out. Right. That's the best part.

The wild card, the uncertainty, the theme. But that's one of the cool things about this, though, is, like, I've never met a special teams coach who isn't, like, kind of nuts in the best way. So this is their moment.

It's giving them life.

You're right.

They've been kind of marginalized. That play was marginalized. And anything that gets the excitement of what used to be one of the most exciting plays I'm all into. Look, I'm for the rule where you could choose to, to go for it on fourth and fifth. I'm all for crazy rules. I think the NF, we need more of this moving forward. We've done two things now. I love it.

We're waiting on yours.

I'm going to go simple because the reason I mentioned that is because it's like, okay, we're only going to get through so many, or the show is going to be 3 hours. And maybe this seems boring, but it's a simple, and it's just true. For me, it's CJ. It's CJ Stroud. And that's just like, like, it's not just because my son Walker was the only attendee of the Super bowl last year. At least that I saw that was wearing a CJ Stroud jersey. That's like a little part of it, the joy that it brings my son, because, yeah, CJ Stroud made my son, I think, a Texans fan for life. I think it's sticking, and I think he's just going to be with this guy and this team, and I don't know why that is, but I, for, for me, because we're separate. I'm here, he's there, and for me, it's like he's got, he's just got everything he wants. He's had a great offseason. I've loved the markup, the Micah Parsons.

Talking about CJ now.

CJ, yes.

You never know.

I love the Mike Parsons and CJ Stroud, like road show. I love basically every appearance CJ Stratocad. So I, like, love him as a dude, but I wouldn't really care about that if I didn't love watching him as a player. And, like, I start with the quarterbacks that I tend to like with guys that first, like, can just make beautiful throws and usually, like, at least a starting point, like, beautiful throws with anticipation from the pocket. And he reminds me of Philip Rivers in that way. Like Herbert a little bit, too. What I liked about Herbert when he first came out, how he gets through the reads so quick, reminds me a little bit of Gino in that way. And so that's like the starting point. And then there's, like, what he can do off script, which I think is underrated, and what he can do intangibly as a leader. That, to me, like, he's just, I hate the analysis. I know you hate this analysis, Patrick, when it's like he's got it, but I think that is part of it for me. And it all, like, it all comes together in this package that I actually don't think people appreciated quite how incredible he played last year.

Cause I did go back and watch him this offseason, and I think when you watch him, you can make a strong case that he was, like, a top seven or eight quarterback in the NFL. A very easy case, like, as a. As a rookie.

Simple.

And since I've started doing this, I don't think there's maybe anyone else that you could say that about. Like, luck was sniffing there but not there. RG three was sniffing there but not there. Dak. Dak was there. Actually, I think Dak's a good, good comparison. I think CJ Scott showed even more about how Dak performed that year. Like, and I just think he'll be just knowing everything that we know about him and knowing what's around him and Stephon Diggs and all that stuff. Like, I just think the growth from year one to year two, it's just like, I can't freaking wait for this. To watch this dude play.

And I'm not even, like, tinging at the. He's got it right. Because the. It is in this instance, right, is his natural ability as a football player, and also the honesty that he approaches the game with. And discussing the game where you hear CJ Stroud say something, and, of course, you know, those of us who agree with him, we're like, yeah, he's a ball knower, but, like, legitimately, it provides a window into. Oh, well, yeah, if you go into the huddle with this guy, of course you're gonna believe what he says. And, like, the way that he discusses a play breakdown. Like, of course, people remember that viral interview with Cooper cup and Bridget Condon, right? And so, like, you get that level of discussion, and it's like, yeah, that's what it is. This guy is a person who I can. Who's one of the most talented people on the planet, but I can actually relate to him as a human being. And, oh, yeah, he's a very good quarterback, and I think that's. That's what it is. And, of course, like, that's exciting. And I'm glad the Texans are good now.

Yeah, it's. It's fun. It's such a fun team also, for so many reasons. But he is at the forefront of that. And, like, he speaks how he plays. He. He. I have in my notes, CJ Stroud, dash ball knower, supreme ball knower. Like, he. But he speaks how he plays in that he has this assuredness, this conviction, so much about what a rookie quarterback has to learn how to do in his first year has nothing to do with anything that happens after the snap. A lot does. But it's all how you control the huddle, how you manage your teammates, how you learn with your receivers, how you get people to do what you need them to do and how you absorb what other things people need from you. But doing so with such, such conviction and such an assuredness, I mean, the dude oozes leadership. First of all, for someone so young, it is really fun. Again, we talked about being, you know, as fans of the sport, it is so fun to watch somebody be so. He is like basically an on his sleeve player. Like, you're going to know where he's at because he will show you and he'll play like that and he'll be that dude.

And I. I think what's cool is they're not going to have to start in a typical year two with him. Like, they're not going to have to go through a teaching progression that I would think would be typical for a quarterback going into your two. I'm really excited to see.

No, you saw it. You saw it during the season last year. The difference between him and week three to week 14 or whatever was massive.

Yeah, he's advanced. I mean, he has gone past what the normal steps would be when you think about, okay, how do we give this guy what he needs, but not too much because he's still growing and he's a kid and we've got to get an NFL full NFL offseason and all of those things. But he showed that very early on. You know, it was super interesting to watch sort of the collective conscious wake up to the qualities and the traits that he had already showed. He already was that guy. And so to see, like the collective sport really appreciate. But then I think whatever, you know, he's kind of given that appreciation right back to the sport. I mean, I've loved hearing him talk on the podcast and all those things because it's just fun. You just think this, this guy is going to be around for a long time and he didn't show what his ceiling would be and instead showed an extremely high floor. And that's super important. When you think about team building, when you think about when this team is going to be ready to really push, to really go all in, you think about everything centers around how fast you can get through these years and he's going to go through them in a truncated time.

And the throws are pretty like, oh, yeah, they sliced like that's sort of like where it starts for me. Like they're just, oh, dude, they're just sort of majestic and the anticipation of it all. And I do want to be careful of expectations. I'm not. I thought now when I think more deeply about it since we started, since, you know, we did around the NFL, Justin Herbert, like, was the guy I was most confident going into year two would like, you know, be an MVP candidate, that sort of thing. And, you know, his growth since then has been rocky at times. I think there's reasons for that, and I think reasons that CJ Stroud will avoid in terms of the continuity with the coaching staff and certainly the talent around Stroud. But you, I do want to be careful of just like expectations. Like some things could be, could be bumpy. Like, it doesn't mean that he's going to climb to the very top of the quarterback like ladder this year. But I'm nothing ruling it out either. Like, defenses would, will adjust, but, like, I've just, I've seen enough. We know, and it's, it's going to be fun to be along the ride from.

We are going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back with some more things that we're looking forward to in 2024. All right, continuing on with the things related to the National Football League. Patrick, uh, that get you up in the morning, you know, they get you going. We've had a little break and we're back at it, and I want to.

Get back at seeing teams go from worst to first.

Okay.

We just talked about CJ Stroud and the Texans were, were very close, you know, and looking at the Bears, the chargers, the Cardinals, the Panthers, the commanders, the Patriots, unfortunately, the Titans, like, we don't believe it right now, but there's a chance, like, of course, you know, we did this exercise on game debut and the obvious answer is the Cincinnati Bengals. Right. But I think one of those other teams, despite all of the things that they're facing, has a chance to do it. And it's one of those situations.

You have a specific one or just saying any.

He wants you to say Patriots so bad.

No, I don't. I don't.

Do you want me to say the Patriots?

No. I've been emotionally disconnecting. I got a lot of heat for that, but it's just been the facts. Drake maybe in, back then. Drake May in the mix, though. I'm going to enjoy them, but no, they're not going to win their division.

Because we just saw the Houston Texans have this incredible turnaround and the Bears were making like, I think you can make a case Bears position the Chargers.

But I think the Cardinals, you can that. They'd be a fun team.

Yeah.

Probably not win the division, but a fun team.

Their division kills them, but yeah, they're.

For all of these teams. Maybe you could make a case for the Titans. Um, but all of them are better than they were a season or I.

Think the Patriots are going to be better than people think. I was shocked when I saw the, uh, like, you know, spoiler. Unless everything changes on the desert front, like we, every year we've done a, like a, before the season fed Bill Barnwell on. He's coming on later this week. By the way, be excited about that. And, you know, drafted over unders, the fact that the Patriots, I think were four and a half or five and a half. Yeah, like, forget that.

Yeah. I'm so excited to see what the Bears do. Their defense was already solid, kind of came along a little bit better. Eberfluss is kind of maybe coaching for some, some tenure here. You know, just give or take how the year starts. And I am so excited to see Caleb Williams. I mean, you guys, you guys know, living out here in LA, being awake, watching the games, you know, well after the sun has set, you know, he's, he's so special. And obviously this is, doesn't even need to be said because he was the number one overall pick and highly touted prospect and legendary thrower already. But, like, still putting it all together can be so hard for teams. We've seen that. We've seen that with teams with number one overall picks and that can be really difficult. But I think he has. I don't want to, I don't want to put too much optimism in the Chicago Bears before we actually see proof of concept. But I do think life gets a lot easier when you find the quarterback. I personally think they found the quarterback and now building around him will be important. I do want to give you guys my hot cardinals take because I don't feel like the Cardinals.

They're, they're crushed by their division. And so I think they get overlooked a lot. Right. Like, not overlooked in the sense that it's unfair because they've been bad and gone through a lot of different things. But the stuff that they were doing last year, drew Petzing Nick Rowless under the Jonathan Gannon sort of umbrella, it was weird and it was cool. And you would hear quarterbacks talk about it like, I don't know, what they were doing. I hadn't seen that. What they were doing on defense, they would sometimes do these things where they'd, like, do like a walk around pre snap look, where they'd sort of just.

Like, they were just trying all of.

A sudden rush to the snap. They were, they were just trying.

And I, and I thought it was like they were doing a really good job for that. And then you look at the end of the year and it's like dead last and, like, EPA for play loud. So defensively, I did want to balance it with that thing. I thought, like, it felt like it was cool and it was good and they were overachieving. And then I looked and it was like, actually, their defense was a sip offense totally different. They improved a ton.

But I do, I mean, they, statistically, they were not a good team. Like, let's be clear on that. Like, let's be very clear. But sometimes when you see process stuff like that, when you see troubleshooting, when you see what works, what doesn't work, it's almost like I would kind of, with those two coordinators, I would almost compare it to when you give a quarterback, when a quarterback has a year to sit instead of coming right in. I mean, obviously they didn't have a year to sit and, like, cut their teeth on being coordinators and being a real team and all of that. Like, the results were the results and the stats were the stats, but it was similar vibes wherever, you know, Kyler was hurt, you weren't going into it. You were kind of like, what is this gonna be? Okay, let's just see everything. We're not first, like, let's try. Let's try things. Let's do these different things. I'm not saying that they're gonna be a contender here. I think they could be really fun, honestly. I do think that especially, you know, with, you know, healthy quarterback and all of these different things and, and the draft classes that they've put together, like, they could be really fun.

Thank you, draft class.

Yeah. But I think that they, they did some stuff that was interesting and fun, and a lot of times, teams do not get an opportunity or even a chance to do that without super high stakes, and that could potentially lead to something cool. So it's not like a super, I guess it's not a super hot Cardinals take. It's a very lukewarm Cardinals Kyler.

Year two is on my long list, which we're not getting to like almost any of them at this point, but they were the number two rushing attack last year and EPA for play after Kyler returned to full stop, like they were just by the numbers, about a top ten offense. After Kyler returned, I thought him in that offense and what you could see, he wasn't fully back from the injury physically and was getting up to the speed of the offense. But I thought he did things just as a quarterback that I didn't always see with Cliff Kingsbury. I saw growth, like process wise and man, I. That makes me very excited about them. And I think the, the ceiling sight you meant. We mentioned the Bears, by the way, and all that. Uh, we're going to hit on tomorrow's show with Steve Weiss and Nick shook. Everything we've missed, everything that has happened in the NFL, essentially as much as we can, like as much news rundown that we think matters. One of them is that, yeah, the Bears are the hard knocks team, which is cool so that we can get into, uh, getting into this team.

I like, I'm, I'm into like eight weeks straight of hard knocks. The first episode, I know people had their doubts on the Giants hard knocks, but it was, I found it compelling. I thought it was a good addition. I'm going to give a quick one that you guys don't need to comment on and then I'll throw it to you, Jordan. Just a very quick one is just like, if you look at week 18 last year, here are some quarterbacks that did not play Aaron Rodgers and that will be playing week one, hopefully. Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Anthony Richardson, Joe Burrow, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake may like that's a quarter of the league right there. And like, those are all dudes and they're going to be playing health willing week one. So that's just a quick one that I'm excited about.

It's so nice that your point actually sets up my point, so thank you for that. I'm looking at like year two quarterbacks in general, and I'm, I think maybe more excited about these guys than possibly guys that are just coming in and being rookies because I try not to grade rookies too difficult, like with too much difficulty. There's a learning curve. There's, you know, the whole ship has to get built around them at some point. And like we touched on with CJ Stroud, it's, you know, he's a very pleasant outlier in the sense that so much worked and he really worked and everything really clicked. But the year two guys, I mean, obviously we talked about CJ. I am so excited to see. I hope Anthony Richardson gets a full season. I think he is so special. Some of the throws he was making last year before he got hurt, there's some, there's some controlled chaos, but in the best way, in that way that makes defenders hesitate. What the heck is this guy going to do? And he can just, he can, he can hurt you every which way. And pairing him, you know, with Shane Steichen, like a lot of these year two guys, I mean, Bryce Young, that's to me, a really compelling story.

After what he went through last year and what it must have done in terms of, like, how do you manage that mentally? That's going to be really significant and unproven. Really relatively unproven play caller in Dave Canales. And you're going to kind of see, can you, can you right the ship with this young man? Like, can, can he figure it out? Can they maximize some of the qualities that did make him a really strong prospect coming out of the draft that weren't necessarily available to him? Does he actually have more skills and more tools around him? And I kind of. He doesn't qualify structurally, so nobody ding me on this. Please don't yell at me for this. But Jordan, love in year two of, like, being the dude.

Like, no, that's not acceptable.

I'll just, I'm gonna go. I'm just gonna.

That's actually the end of NFL daily.

Killed the show.

Been a good first episode. Like, it's fine.

Yeah, it was all right. But year two of being the dude, like, like fully having the reins, fully being, you know, with working fully with Matt Lefleur, fully, fully having sort of the, you know, the shadow, not in a negative way, but the shadow of, like, the legendary quarterback who came before him fully away from that building. And I, you know, obviously, structurally he does not qualify as a year two quarterback, but a year two as franchise guy. I loved how he put together that season last year. I loved seeing the collaboration between him and Matt Lafleur. I think it's so magical when the coach and the quarterback can suddenly, you can see the planning together. You can see them truly collaborating and troubleshooting together. That's what I think a lot of these year two guys do have in common. We have yet to see with Bryce Young, obviously, but they do have that really heady way of being able to vocalize and verbalize what they want, of being able to really construct an offense. All of these young quarterbacks do. And that's really exciting to me. I mean, that's really fun for, for the sport in general, but it's also really fun when it's like, get out of their way a little bit, let them cook.

And I think a lot of these guys have that in them.

And so much of the, like, should a quarterback start? Should a quarterback sit? Discussion to me is based on our perception of who they are. And so we. If it goes bad, right. We perceive them as bad and think that, oh, well, you. Our bias has been confirmed. This guy started early, and now he's bad.

Right.

But Bryce was in a horrible situation.

Oh, yeah.

And I think we can go back to look at camp reports and conversations surrounding Jordan Love early in his career where it's like, this. This is not working. Um, and I think.

Or Aaron Rodgers. I can't remember. What was it? Craig Nahl or something. Like, he was the fourth quarterback. He was struggling his rookie year in. In camp.

And I remember it was two Super Bowls before. Two Super Bowls ago. We were talking to Aaron Jones on Super bowl live, and Michael Robinson asked him before the segment, like, hey, how's. How's Jordan love doing? And Aaron said, oh, Jordan loves. Ready. Like, this is. This is it. Jordan Love is a quarterback. He's real. He's legit. And Mike Rob was like, hey, we're not taping right now. You can be honest. And. And there was, like, there was that level of skepticism, and then early on in the season, the skepticism was still there, and all of a sudden, he. He goes nuclear. And it's like, this is it. And Jordan love would never be questioned now. And I'm. I'm with Jordan. Like, yes, I think we can get that from some of these year two guys and completely shift our perception, because that's football.

Well, Jordan love specifically is like a bit of a mystery box. I think the floor is higher than we ever would have expected. The ceiling is through the roof. As.

As Michael Jordan.

Michael Jordan would say, like, he's just preposterous. He reminds, like, he reminds me of Kaepernick and Josh Allen, at least just in the way that he makes me feel when he sort of first came out. Just like, oh, like anything is possible here. I don't know what's gonna happen, and some of it's gonna be bad. And those are the two guys. And I think it's just. Cause also just their physicality and just their just talent that just is undeniable that he reminds me of. Not that he plays exactly like them, but just in the way that he makes me feel like he is an incredible value add as a quarterback. And that's, that is kind of what it's about, at least for me. Like, it's like when you're, when you're picking which games to watch, ultimately the games that you don't want to watch as much are the ones and the quarterbacks you're not going to be excited about. I'm going to do one more and then we're going to take one last break and it's just the Steelers being Stealer y. I actually am. I genuinely am into this. Like, we have so much.

You know, none of us have done a podcast. We haven't talked about football in a while. Like, we have a lot to get to and we're going to get to it. It's. It's called NFL Daily. So we're, we're going to have plenty of time as we build up to this season. But, but I mean, it, like, the defensive front reminds me so much of the Steelers teams in the aughts in the early 2010s that just like, well, that's what the Steelers are. They're two preposterously good outside linebackers and then a third that probably is better than your second. And then they're. And that's, you know, TJ Watt and Alex High Smith. And I really like Nate Herbert coming in and then, oh, yeah, by the way, there's also, like a couple massive difference makers in the front with Cameron Hayward and Keanu Benton, who I think is a making the leap type of candidate if we do a. Making the leap show, like, really good last year for them on the inside. And so that's their defense and it's Tomlin. And they recently, you know, they got Larry Ogun Jobi, I think Jerry Porter Junior.

He's a dog. Like, they're just. I think they're quietly gonna be one of those Tomlin defenses. And then, oh, by the way, it's the Art Smith revival. It's like the run scheme. Like, you can fault art Smith for a lot of things, but it's a pleasing run scheme to watch when it works. And what I think of is just, you know, the pulling tackles and stuff. And when Broderick Jones came in last year as a pulling tackle, they improved, like, day one. And he is just like a monster of highlight blocks on the edge and now he's moving to lap left tackle. And who do they take in the first round? Troy Fautanu, who is the most massive, the most intimidating, like, pulling blocker. And I don't, I don't know if this is all going to work. I have a feeling we're going to be talking with Nate tice. You're going to be on this show, Jordan, next week about stuff schematically that we're excited about. That's going to be Monday's show. I would. Maybe I'll stop talking. Cause I have a feeling Nate's gonna hit this. But, like, those two dudes in art Smith's running scheme and two really good running backs, I just think that's very stealer y to me.

And I think they're just gonna be very stealer y.

So he's also rebranded to art is what, you know, we go from Arthur, but he's gonna.

Did I say that?

But he's gonna be painting. He's gonna be painting.

Oh, there it is.

This is where you're. I mean, you're breaking some news here. If he's rebranded, because we will call it I like art. I think art is better for, you know, it's like, kind of more of a. It's a punch you in the mouth kind of name, which is art was.

Like the holding the microphone stand a little too tight. I mean, Arthur was holding the microphone stand a little too tight. As a head coach, Art is the one cooking up a 1980s style with some twist running scheme in the lab.

Art's gonna run triple option Art Smith. Art Smith says, give me the biggest, beefiest offensive lineman you've got, and we're gonna pull your ass to the sideline like Art Smith.

Let's go.

Art Smith's got some lettuce, right?

Like, art's at the whiteboard with an easel. You know, he's drawing up plays.

They walk it. They walk in, and all the whiteboards in the building have been changed out.

And I think there is some truth. Like, he was in that stressful position as the head coach of a football team with a million different things to do and to worry about. And now he can be Artsmith, right? He can just focus on play calling and facilitating an offense.

He's free to be art.

Yeah, he can be art. Be the art that you want to see.

I want to see them run pistol. We're going to get to it. Don't let Nate steal pistol from me, okay?

And I do want to make the first NFL daily apology just to all the great people and storylines and trends that I didn't get to, but I'm going to save them. We're gonna do them at some point. That's podcasting 101 there.

I've learned a lot, too.

You'll use everything I've learned a lot eventually. Let's take one last quick break and we're gonna wrap things up after that. Shawn T. Back on NFL daily. Wrapping up our first show together, it's a lot, a lot of emotions, a lot of football. Really glad you guys were here for it. And just to let everyone know, like, what is NFL daily going to be? Like, what is coming up? I think the first week and plus is a good example of what's coming. Our show tomorrow, we're going to talk about, as I mentioned, a lot of everything that's happened since there's been a podcast here on this feed. So Nick shook, Steve Weiss is going to join me for that. We're also going to have one of our insiders, Ian Rapaport, I believe, believe us. Just for a little news. As part of that show, I'm going to be breaking down kind of previewing camps with Mina Kimes and Bill Barnwell later in the week. On Monday, we mentioned the scheme show we're going to do with Nate Tyson and Jordan. And then it'd be great to have Colleen Wolf back in the studio. Patrick, hopefully you're available for that one.

I'm really hoping you are. Anytime pressure. And so that's the next week and going from there, it's daily. We're going to be posting five days a week, overnights for now. That might get adjusted once we move on into training camp. And more news is coming out. And yeah, even Monday mornings, you guys will have something in your feed. And so before we go, I do want to do something that we might do every day. We might do some days. And it's like a little after dinner mint. Like when I would go to my grandfather's house, Heinz Rosenberg in Connecticut. Every Sunday we'd go there and we'd get back to his house and he would have this little jar of mint after eights. They were called very old school. And you would have a little after dinner mint. We were home from the restaurant. We would always go out to eat. And it's just a nice little aftertaste, a nice little thing to leave you on our after dinner mint. Our after eight today is gonna be a picture that I was so excited to see while we were on our break. If you're watching on YouTube, check us out there, too.

This is Austin James Roberts, born May 25. So just a few days since we talked to you last. And Eric, as the ATN listeners will know, is great producer for us. And he's doing some work from home for now, but he's spending time with Austin, and he will be back with us in the studio doing a lot of work for us, I believe, in August. And in the meantime, Randy Chavez is holding it down behind the scenes. So we love you too, Randy, but we really love Austin James. So congratulations to Eric and to Leann and especially to Austin. You got some badass parents, and it's really exciting.

Yeah, existence is awesome. You're gonna enjoy it. And I look in, you don't know.

Any alternative, frankly, in existence or not. But yes, compared to the alternative, you're gonna enjoy it.

And when people. Cause it's always interesting when you have kids and it's like, you tell them how old your kids are, it's like, oh, that's a good age. And I was thinking, like, oh, a month. Like, oh, that's a good age. They're all great ages. And, you know, Eric grinding out and doing everything and being a new dad, it's awesome.

Great dude. And you'll get to know him, too, Jordan, when he's back. And you're right, I push back hard now because now that Ellis, my daughter, is twelve, it's now to the point where people think it's not a good age. And I'm kind of like you, you know, that's my daughter you're talking.

It's like, oh, it's a great age.

Teenage daughters, it's like, all right. You know how you're so happy like, that? You're like, one year old or two year old, like, walked without themselves or whatever. Or they did one little thing, like, can you imagine how proud I am of what my badass twelve year old is doing on a daily basis? Like, it's exponential.

Exactly.

The pride. That's all. Let's hit the music. Randy. Yeah. For this first episode of NFL Daily, again, thank you to everyone for their patience and their support and their love. It means a lot to us and for checking out the show, and hopefully you will tomorrow, too. Until then, for Patrick and Jordan, I'm Greg Rosenthal. See you next thing.