It's more interesting. It's the right thing to do, and it's. I think the stories that come out of it are also, you know, they're more original.

Hello. My name is Dominique Tipper, and I play Pax in Dustbourne.

My name is Ragnar Thornquist. I am creative director at Red Thread Games and game director and writer on Dustbourne.

Hey, Dominique, how are you doing?

Hello. Nice to see you.

And you. And Dominique, I think it's fair to say a lot of people recognize you from the Expanse, the very successful Amazon tv show. You've been up to something quite interesting recently. Tell us kind of what it's all about and how you got involved with it.

I play Pax in Dustbourne. She's the kind of person that you play in the game and you're following her story, and she is what you call an anomal. It means that she has this kind of power where she can weaponize and use her words. So she's on the run with, like, a group of her kind of friends and family. Found family. As the game goes on, you kind of develop relationships with them, and they are delivering a package to Nova Scotia in Canada. So that's kind of the premise of the game.

When you have a moment, I'd like to talk about something.

Yeah. How actually does a developer based in Norway end up working on a game that's set in a sort of futuristic dystopian USA?

That's. Yeah, that's a good question. It's not the first time I've heard that question. I mean, first off, the idea of the american road trip is very, very sort of embedded in our culture. I think it's sort of a default in many ways. Right. In terms of pop culture. It's where a lot of pop culture comes from, and there's also a natural place to do a story about pop culture and about language and about this sort of, like I said, this melting pot of cultures and ideas and politics.

You mentioned how America is a bit of a melting pot there, and you've got a very diverse array of characters. There's a lot of focus in the industry at the moment on making sure that characters that do come from different backgrounds are kind of authentically represented. How have you approached that challenge with Dustbourne?

That's an interesting question, because, as you probably know, like, there are a lot of gamers in the world who are unhappy with games that have characters that don't necessarily look like gaming. Characters used to look 10, 20, 30 years ago. We really set out to create a cast of characters that just feel like a representation of the world as it is today and America as it is. You know, it's diverse. It's not just filled with people who look like me. And that's also why we've sort of tapped into the cast. We have writers who are more representative of the characters in the game and trying to sort of just. Yeah, learn more and try to create a more diverse cast than most games have. Just because we think it's. It's. It's more interesting. It's. It's the right thing to do. And it's. I think the stories that come out of it are also, you know, they're. They're more original. They're. They're more interesting, I think.

What can I do for you this time, man? You mentioned that you don't engage with the negativity, and there is a lot of that online. On the flip side of that is that stories that do make diverse casts more prominent, actually, and they mean a lot to other people who aren't kicking off about it. Did you. Has anyone already got in touch with you more along those lines?

Not with Dustbourne yet again. I think maybe when it's out and a bit more out in the world, that will happen, but definitely with other stuff I've done, like the expanse, because, I mean, I kind of hate buzzwords and buzz sentences. Like representation matters, but they do actually, they do come from somewhere. And I think there's nothing quite like seeing yourself on screen or in a game or if you've never, ever seen it before, or even if you have just different versions of it that isn't stereotypical. And so for me, that always matters more than any negative feedback because I'm just like, you know, normally the people you're negative about is not for them. And I won't really stand for it, to be honest. I'm from the east end. Like, if y'all want to hit me up on social media and do some of that nonsense, like, go ahead and try. I'm not the one.

Hi. Hello. Hi, officer.

I think there's kind of a bit of a misunderstanding on the part of some player you mentioned. There's some gamers that do get a bit upset when they see maybe people who don't look like game characters used to. There's often suggestion that these things are kind of forced in. Where do you sort of sit on that?

Yeah, people say that we sort of, like, we've been forced to have a diverse guy. I wonder if you forced us to do that because I wasn't aware of that. I mean, I think publishers and developers are just understanding more or that there's a. There's a wider and more diverse audience out there. Games are becoming more global, games are becoming more accessible to everyone, and that means the audience changes. Unfortunately, there is pushback. I mean, it's very few people, but those people are unfortunately very loud and angry and upset. But, you know, there's room for different games and different stories and different people, and we're just making one game that will hopefully find an audience. You know, we just want to sort of stand out and do something that is. Yeah. Different from everything else out there.

You meant you mentioned there the partnership with Quantic Dream. And in fairness, we are talking about games that were released some time ago. But I know some of their previous releases have had some criticism for maybe not being quite as socially aware. All the portrayals of maybe female characters haven't been so great with the project like yours that's obviously quite socially conscious and trying to do a good job of representation. Were there any initial concerns going into that partnership, or is that all kind of gone quite smoothly?

No, I think quantic dream always sort of felt this is a red thread game, and they wanted to work with us because of who we are and what we've done in the past. Games have gone through a radical change in the last ten years. I think we were, all of us, not too socially conscious 1015 years ago. And I think in the last ten years we've seen drastic changes and I think we are just doing our thing. Quantic saw the potential in Dustbourne and let us carry on doing exactly what we wanted to do. There's never been sort of a pressure to do anything different other than make a game that red thread and our team can be proud of. And that is true to our values, and it's a game that's personal to us.

I guess actually that's the power of games, isn't it? Because what they are really good at is helping people to see through the eyes of somebody else. Cause there's that sort of interactive, experiential element of them which maybe you don't get so much in the other mediums. I guess that must be quite exciting, actually.

It is a lot more interactive and you spend more hours, I think, doing it potentially. So maybe even on that level. I mean, I think gaming is really behind for representation, but yeah, I do think it's a good medium for that. I do think there is a big opportunity to make them more of a medium that people can use to change their views. I mean, it's still entertainment, it's still art. It doesn't always have to be that deep. But yeah, I do think it's a good medium for that, but we'll see. There's also quite a resistance to it. I think Dustbourne is really cool for how multilayered the characters are in it, and I try and always look for that in things that I do. I think we can continue to make art that combats that, because it can change people's attitudes on a social level. And I think that then can filter into changing things on a systemic level.

I think all art has the potential to be. To make people more open minded. Absolutely. To tell stories that can affect people in different ways. I know I've been shaped throughout my life by media, by tv shows, by movies, maybe less so by games, but. But games has more potential, I think. And I think we're really seeing that again in the last ten years. Putting players in positions and playing characters that don't look like them, who may be characters they don't meet in their lives, and experiencing cultures that are far away from their own. It can be helpful and it can be eye opening. And I think the pushback we see is probably because of that, because it can be challenging, right. And I understand why people might push against it, but I think if you embrace it, I think that can be groundbreaking. I think we're just at the start of that, of letting games be sort of tools for expanding boundaries, be they cultural or political or social, you know, just being able to see the world from different perspectives. But that also does require us to support developers who, again, don't look like me, right.

Because I am, 75% of developers in the western world probably look exactly like me. And we need to change that. We need to support studios and developers who can bring new stores and new perspectives to games. We can try here, and we've done that with us for now. I think we've done a decent job. But in order to really see the sort of see like a change in the stories, games can tell them what they can do to people. I think we need more diversity on the development side as well, so hopefully that's starting to happen.

What's the thing you most enjoyed about working on Dustbourne, or what you most looking forward to people experiencing when they play it?

I just think it's a really fun, emotional game. And I think my favorite thing about it was it's always fun to use your voice as a tool. For acting rather than, like, your whole self. So that's always a challenge for me. But I just think I there's so many elements in it that are so much fun. The band stuff is really fun, so I just think people are really going to enjoy playing it and going on the journey with Pax and the gang, so I just hope ultimately they have fun playing it.

I figured I'd go with you and.

See where the road takes me.

All right. Thanks ever so much for your time, Dominique. Much appreciated.

Have a good rest of your day.

Bye, Ragdar, thanks ever so much for your time. It has been a real pleasure to speak to you. Thank you very much.

Thanks very much and have a good day.

And you take care of.