Transcribe your podcast
[00:00:00]

Can we begin with the Middle East? When is the moment going to come when Britain says to Israel, Look, enough is enough. Either you defend yourself differently, or it's time for a ceasefire.

[00:00:11]

Israel does have a right to self-defense. What happened to Israel on the seventh of October was appalling. There are still 240 more hostages that Hamas have. But yesterday, when I met with the Israeli President, with the Prime Minister, with others, I stressed over and over again that they must abide by international humanitarian law, that the number of casualties are too high.

[00:00:36]

But the problem is that politicians like yourself have been saying that to Israel for several weeks now, and it hasn't made any difference. The numbers of civilian deaths have risen. The concerns about breaches of international humanitarian law continue. When is the awful arithmetic of the number of civilian deaths going to shape and change British policy?

[00:00:59]

Well, we are going to have a continuous dialog with them and keep making these points about humanitarian law, about civilian casualties, not just about what's happening in Gaza, but also what is happening on the West Bank, where I made very clear yesterday that the settle of violence, people actually targeting and on occasions, killing Palestinian civilians is completely unacceptable. Those people are responsible for that. It's not good enough just to arrest them. They need to be arrested, prosecuted, and imprisoned. These are crimes.

[00:01:30]

How do you address the argument that actually what this policy that Britain is supporting here in Israel at the moment is actually counterproductive, that actually it's making Israel less secure, more alienated young Palestinians, more angry Arab allies, the prospects of a two-state solution, even less likely.

[00:01:47]

One of the points of coming here, one of the points of talking to Israeli President and Prime Minister and others is to talk about the future, because ultimately, there won't be long-term safety and security and stability for Israel unless there is long-term safety, security, and stability for the Palestinian people. You have to start thinking about the future.

[00:02:13]

You talk about the future. What is your.

[00:02:14]

Vision for the future? You've got to think about what will happen in Gaza after this conflict has finished, and how is that going to be stabilized? How is that going to be secure? How is it going to be governed? Then you've got to think about how you start to build the capacity for there to be a state in which Palestinians can live in stability and security. One thing that has changed since I was last looking at and working on these issues is, of course, the Emirates, Bahrain, others have actually got a new partnership with Israel. Now, of course, that's under strain because of what's happening, but actually getting Arab countries involved in working for a future for the Palestinian people that gives them stability and security is a very big part of the picture.

[00:02:57]

Hamas is supported by Iran. If now is not the moment to prescribe the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, when is?

[00:03:04]

You have to think what is the right answer to deliver the foreign policy goals that we have, but be in no doubt that we absolutely understand the maligned influenceof Iran, not just in this region, but also against our own country. I mean, one of the things that is so striking is if you look at Iran support for Hezbolla, if you look at Iran support for Hamas, you look at Iran support for the Huthis in Yemen, who've been sending missiles over into Israel. If you look at the relationship between Iran and Russia, we face an incredibly dangerous international situation, centered in part on this region, but going beyond it. Iran is absolutely at the heart of those problems.