While we have you to talk to, the news that's just broken in the last hour is the fact that the outgoing Dutch Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, set to be the next head of NATO. You, as a former US ambassador to NATO, will know the intric of the dealings that go on choosing the next Secretary General. Just wondering, what a tricky time to take over a position like that. What do you think is going to be in Mark Rutte's inbox when he takes over later this year?

Well, the number one thing in his inbox is to convince Central and East European allies that he's going to be tough on Russia and that he's going to push for European allies to all spend enough on defense. Us, including the Netherlands, because as he was Prime Minister in the Netherlands for 10 years, the Netherlands never spent 2% of GDP on defense. They're still not doing so. For him to be taking over the alliance is greeted with a lot of skepticism in Central and Eastern Europe that he's going to have to overcome.

What is it about his personality? Why would he have been chosen for this role?

Well, I think he is a former Prime Minister. That's one of the things people look for. He's well known and well liked by some of the larger countries in NATO, Germany, UK, France, and also the United States. He's viewed as competent and serious. He's also from a small nation, and the big nations generally like to have a small nation there because they feel they have a little bit more sway. For a lot of reasons, he seems to have good personal characteristics for the job. But the performance of the Netherlands on defense issues is the one thing that the Central and East Europeans are unhappy with.

So in terms of allies? Does that make it much more difficult for him in that role? I'm just wondering how important the role of NATO Secretary General is these days.

So it's a very good question because it is the countries of NATO who make the decisions. Decisions by NATO are taken by consensus of all the members. They take place in the North Atlantic Council. The Secretary General chairs the meetings, but he's also the spokesperson. He's also the advocate. He's the person trying to build consensus among everyone. So it's a critical role, even though he's not an executive in the same way a President of a country is an executive. So it is important that he builds that consensus within the alliance. But imagine This is a situation where Poland is really on the front line, where Russia is invading Ukraine. All of the shipments for support to Ukraine go through Poland. Poland is spending 4% of GDP on defense. And here you have someone from a smaller country that is not spending much on defense, taking over the alliance, and then having to have the role of getting Poland on board with what he might be proposing or others might be proposing. It's going to be a tricky job for him.

Interesting. Just a reminder, he takes over from Jens Stolenberg on October the first. Kurt Volcker, really good to talk to you. Thank you for joining us.

My pleasure. Thank you.