Hi, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal Season 3, and I'm excited to share episode one with you. I'm even more excited to tell you that you can listen to this and all new episodes completely ad-free and one week early with an iHeartTrueCrise+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. So head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrueCrine+, and subscribe today.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Imagine you're a fly on the wall at a dinner between the Mafia, the CIA, and the KGB. That's where my new podcast begins. This is Neil Strauss, host of To Live and Die in LA. I wanted to quickly tell you about an intense new series about a dangerous spy taught to seduce men for their secrets and sometimes, their lives. From Tenderfoot TV, this is To Die For. To Die For is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stacey, would you please read this document.

Okay. This is a court document, Affidavit of Probable Cause from Berks County, Pennsylvania. On or about Thursday, January fifth, 2023, a detective received information that the defendant, Justin Rutherford, was requesting to have someone murder a juvenile male.

Detectives in running Pennsylvania learned that a Justin Rutherford had concocted a scheme to take the life of a teenager who was set to testify against him in a criminal case. Rutherford told his hitman to use gloves and to wear layers of clothing so no DNA would be found.

Rutherford said he could be buried in the forest somewhere, or he could be burned in a barrel. This would be a good way to get rid of any evidence.

Stacey, do you know Justin Rutherford, the man who was planning the murder?

I do.

And who is he?

My husband.

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Season 3 of Betrayal. Episode 1, Storybook Romance. A listener note, some names have been changed to protect privacy. I'm so grateful to be back for another season of Betrayal. When we started this project with Jennifer Faison's story back in 2019, we really didn't know where it would go. Thanks to you, we're back for season three. And there's even more big news. If you love Betrayal, this summer, our podcast will become a weekly series addressing all kinds of betrayal, from relationships to financial deception and more. There are betrayals you won't believe. Believe, but they happened. What we've discovered is that there are people everywhere, millions actually, who are struggling with loss and shame because something that they believed in turned out to be a lie. Sometimes the lie is so egregious, it's criminal. Other times, it's just too painful to bear. We've also learned that hearing, You aren't the only one that has been the victim of shocking deception, is comforting. There is something inherently therapeutic in sharing our stories. And that brings me to Stacey Rutherford.

I can talk to my best friends till I'm blue in the face, but not a single one of them have any idea of what I feel like. And I hope None of them ever have to know what I feel like.

Stacey heard Ashley Litton's story from Season 2, and they had a lot in common. Even parts of their story are similar.

It was one of those things that it made me finally I feel like I wasn't so abnormal for feeling some of the things that I felt about the situation and about grieving my marriage and everything. It was just for the first time, I felt like somebody knew what I felt like.

But there are some very big differences. The stakes for Stacey and her family are not like anything we've ever seen. When she first reached out to our team, it was from her home in a small rural spot called Jaredstown, West Virginia. It's about 2 hours west of DC. She works in the area as an administrative support for a federal agency. She also spent many years working as a medical assistant. Her story spans three states, two husbands, two courts, four children, and 25 years in the making.

It's a lot, and not everybody can handle that because it's a wild story. It's nothing like you think you're going to hear.

I found Stacey to be such a contradiction. She's a joyful, spiritual person with a great laugh. It's fun just being around her. But that laugh can turn to tears in a matter of seconds. It's a fragile line. She's holding it together, but not by much. First, we need to look at where Stacey came from to see how she arrived here. Stacey was still a teenager when she got married and started a family. She still remembers the night she met her first husband, back in 1998. We'll call him John.

My high school boyfriend and I broke up right after senior year. I went to a party, and just we connected.

John was 23. Stacey was 18.

He was fresh out of the military. I got pregnant pretty quick. My dad will always say, I think he did the noble thing.

Stacey and John married after an accelerated courtship in their hometown of Decatur, Illinois, but eventually moved to West Virginia. They had two kids together, Mikaela and Tyler.

Honestly, we didn't spend a lot of time together. I know that that sounds crazy, but he loved to fish. He could be out there for 12, 18 hours a day. So usually I would just stay home with the kids.

Stacey admits that the relationship wasn't perfect, but she was okay with that.

I knew we didn't have this fireworks and passion and all this, but I was comfortable. And I took a bow when I took that seriously.

They were busy young parents.

He was a forklift operator, but he worked so many hours. He worked 12 to sometimes 16 hours a day.

It never occurred to her that it wouldn't last forever.

Divorce was impossible to me. I was just like, No, we're going to be old sitting on a porch with our grandkids because that's what my grandparents were and my parents were. Divorce wasn't in my family like that. I had made a post on MySpace, or MySpace. Thank you, God, for this life. And I'm so blessed. And I have two great kids and a husband. And two weeks later, he rolled over in bed and he just said, I'm not happy. And I haven't been for a really long time. I'm like, What the hell? I was like, Shut up. And he was like, No, I'm serious. And I just started screaming. Mikaela was eight, and she ran into the bedroom and started screaming, Daddy, don't hit her. Don't hit her. She thought he was hitting me because I was screaming, like, agony. He said it was nobody, that he just wanted to be alone, that we got married too young. He was never going to get married again.

Stacey is no fool. She knew something was up.

My sister calls me Angela Lansbury because I don't find it out. Within days, I knew he was seeing somebody. Ended up finding out it was a coworker. That was August. I come home one day, and I had told him I was going to move back where our family was. And then I changed my mind, and I was like, I can do this. We can try to work this out. He was like, No.

Stacey's daughter, Mikaela, remembers her mom confronting the other woman, though she didn't really know what was happening at the time.

One day, we were waking up for school, and we did not drive to school. We went to some random lady's house, and my mom gets out of the car and is throwing gravel rocks at this lady, and I'm just in the back seat like, I don't know what's happening. And my dad had come out without a shirt on.

Mikaela was too young to understand. Stacey knew exactly what was going on.

It was soul-crushing. I said, Just tell me what it is and what I can do. And I remember he did tell me, Well, you got big, and I didn't like to look at you. And then it was like, Oh, it's my fault.

This moment, it fractured her. So many people know this feeling, not feeling enough. That haunted Stacey.

I had no self-worth. No self-worth. I mean, I had never in my life been suicidal. And I remember, I knew I wanted to be alive for my kids, but I just had this attitude of like, I'm not going to take my life because I'm a Christian, and I don't... But if you don't wake me up in the morning, that would be okay.

Stacey kept her pain hidden. Her children only saw her beauty and strength.

Anything could happen to her, and nothing would faze her. She's great, and I want to be her when I grow up. Mom actually worked two jobs, and so a lot of the time it would be Tyler and I at home by ourselves, and I'd be watching him. And even when I would go hang out with friends in a neighborhood down the street, he would always tag along with me.

Although Mikaela is six years older than Tyler, they formed a close bond during those years.

I mean, honestly, I loved it. I loved being around Tyler when mom was a single mom, and it was just him and I a lot.

Mikaela has grown up a lot since looking after Tyler. She's a master's candidate and a newlywed. But But when she was a kid, she admits to being a bit of a wild child.

Like, I was a hot mess express.

Stacey says Tyler, on the other hand, was a happy kid who adored his mom.

When my first husband and I divorced, he was two. So Tyler and I have always had a huge bond, and he's always been a mama's boy. He loved the Kardashian's, and he'd be like, When's Sister Wives on? And there was so much estrogen in that house at that time. The poor guy had no chance. But it made him the sweetest soul. He will die if I tell you this, but I am a bath and bodywork nut. I probably need a twelve-step program. But I always have it. And so he would lay in bed when he was little, and he'd smell my arm, and he'd say, Oh, Mama, you It was so beautiful.

17 years later, Stacey has acquired the wisdom to view the end of her first marriage with a different lens.

I didn't know what I was doing. I'm a young mom. I'm a young wife, not knowing how to manage money. So I completely accept that I had a hand in the device of my marriage, too.

Still, the loss of her dream left Stacey wounded.

I can honestly say that I've never been the same since my first marriage ended.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

This is Neil Strauss, host of the Tenderfoot TV True Crime podcast, To Live and Die in LA. I'm here to tell you about the new podcast I've been undercover and investigating for the last year and a half. It's called to Die For. Here's a clip.

All these girls were sent out into the world, and they were told, Try to meet important men.

Try to attach yourself to important men.

The voice you're hearing is a Russian model agent telling me about spies sent out to seduce men with political power.

The war in Ukraine is also being fought by all these girls that are all over.

Important cities.

For the first time, a military-trained seduction spy reveals how the Russian government turns sex and love into a deadly weapon. If you want to kill your target, it's easy.

You just seduce him, take him somewhere, start having sex, and then he's very vulnerable, so you can kill him easily.

To Die For is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, parents. Looking for something fun to listen to in the car with your kids? Blippy and Mika have a brand new podcast, Blippy and Mika's Road Trip. Each week, the Blippy Mobile will take your kids to amazing places.

Click, click, put your seatbelts on. Get ready for a ride, we're going to have some fun.

They'll explore and listen to the sounds of amazing places like farms, racetracks, the moon, and even... Construction time. That's right, Flippy.

Follow your ears, what do you hear?

And they'll meet new friends along the way. Alongside Flippy and Mika, your kids will learn awesome new things about the places and things they see and hear. It's a fun, interactive listening experience for the whole family. Listen to Flippy and Mika's road trip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Even after the demise of her marriage, Stacey hoped to find love and a partner to share her life with. She was cautious. She had to be.

I didn't want to be that mom that just had random different men coming in and out of her home, and then for the kids to lose that person. That was always my fear.

The divorce was in 2007. Stacey has had a few long term relationships and some forgettable dates. Stacey's son Tyler recalls one boyfriend that left an impression.

He was a real bad drunk and would just scream and yell, so he wasn't too much of a good guy either. He was just good to us kids. She always had bad experiences with men.

And Stacey's daughter, Mikaela, harbored the fantasy of many children of divorce.

I want my mom and dad back together still, so I was also like, who are you coming into in my house. I was always mean to every boyfriend she had. Anytime she would tell me she was on a date, something was dying or my toenail was falling off and she had to come home because f that guy. And then There would be times if she had a boyfriend over and they were in the living room, I would purposely interrupt and be an annoyance.

Then in 2015, a new man came into Stacey's life.

My My name is Karen, and I met Stacey when my son dated her daughter in high school, and we've been close friends ever since. I met Justin when he was doing a round or rotations. I worked at a lab at the doctor's office, and he was a student there, and we just started chit-chatting.

Justin was in medical school.

I knew he was single, and I'm like, I feel like you and my friend would really hit it off. He had a good sense of humor, and she had a good sense of humor. So I'm not sure if I gave her his number or if I gave him her number, but either way, he ended up reaching out and they met up. Him and I met at Olive Garden. Right off the bat, we started joking. Our whole entire meal was joking, and he just said to me, I'm a poor med student. I don't have time for anyone. I don't have any money. I can't really take you on dates like this. Our biggest joke was he used a coupon on our first date, and he was mortified to bring it out of his pocket. He's like, I got a buy one, get one half off, thing going on. And he was just like, So do you want to adopt a poor med student? And I was like, Yeah, I mean, why not add another kid to it? I'm all for it. Our joke for years was that who wants a ready family. He was like, Whoo, me.

And that's how our relationship started, telling me he had no time for me. And then ended up we were together all the time. He said that she was nice, but I think that he was attracted to her sense humor because that's what makes her really beautiful because she's so funny.

Stacey and Justin were vibing. They just loved being together.

I had butterflies. When driving home from our first date, I remember calling my dad and I was like, Dad, I think I just met my husband. And he was like, Oh, my God, did you tell him that? And I said, No, I didn't tell him that. Why would I tell him that? He's like, Oh, thank God, because he would have run.

Her dad didn't need to worry. The affection was mutual.

They hit off, and I was pretty proud of myself for being a matchmaker. All the years I had dated between my first husband and him, it was so just a cesspool, really. People felt like they had an agenda or there was something that they wanted from me. But Justin, it was just wholeheartedly, I never felt there was anything that he wanted from me. He just wanted to be with me. And for me, I was like, wow, that's the first time I've ever felt like that.

When it was time for Justin to meet Stacey's kids, 15-year-old Mikaela had every intention of giving the new guy the same treatment every other man had received. Unwelcome.

They had been dating for a couple of months, and I remember I was at my dad's house when my mom was like, Justin was coming over and I was going to meet him. The whole time, I'm talking shit. I'm like, Dad, F him. I already don't like him. He's probably fat and ugly. And my dad's like, Mikaela, be nice. And And I'm like, I don't care. I don't want to know you. And then when we walked in the house, it was immediately like, Hi, I'm Justin. And open arms, super talkative, asking me what I want to do when I grow up, how high school is, just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, talking to me. And I was still standoffish because I'm like, Can you take the heat? I remember the first day we met him very vividly, actually.

Tyler was about 10 at the time. He was impressed.

He really just seemed like such a great guy from the start. He came over, we're looking at it, Oh, mom's got a new boyfriend. Here's another asshole. And then surprisingly, he was one of the first guys to ever have an interaction with me. And I actually played football with me. So to me, I was like, Okay, he's actually a pretty good guy. That was the first time I really saw her with another man truly happy. And Mikaela thought it, too. I liked him a lot, and I was like, Okay, I won't scare him away. Yeah, they had a good relationship. I thought they were good together. We started dating in March, and Thanksgiving, we went to Myrtle Beach with his family. And I was like, Oh, this is so great. We spent a lot of time with family and friends.

Time together was precious then. Medical school was all-encompassing for Justin, but they made it work.

I also would help him when he would study because I was in the medical field, So when he was studying prescription med names, we would go back and forth. It's like a game.

Stacey didn't need to be winding and dined. She wanted kindness and connection and someone to be part of her family.

It just never felt complex. We spent a lot of time with family and friends, and if we weren't, we were studying. We didn't do a whole lot our first year.

Justin was also willing to be a father figure and wanted to be involved in the kids' lives.

He was really nice to me and would do stuff with me. He was a big video gamer. He helped me build my first big gaming computer, which was really cool, and he was very tech savvy. If I wanted to play games, he was a guy to play games with. So I was happy to have what I thought would be a father figure. It was like the dad and best friend in one.

Hey, I'm I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

This is Neil Strauss, host of the Tenderfoot TV True Crime podcast, To Live and Die in LA. I'm here to tell you about the new podcast I've been undercover investigating for the last year and a half. It's called To Die For. Here's a clip.

All these girls were sent out into the world, and they were told, Try to meet important men.

Try to attach yourself to important men.

The voice you're hearing is a Russian model agent telling me about spies sent out to to seduce men with political power.

The war in Ukraine is also being fought by all these girls that are all over important cities.

For the first time, a military-trained seduction spy reveals how the Russian government turned sex and love into a deadly weapon.

If you want to kill your target, it's easy.

You just seduce him, take him somewhere, start having sex, and then he's very vulnerable, so you can kill him easily.

To Die For is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, parents. Looking for something fun to listen to in the car with your kids? Blippy and Mika have a brand new podcast, Blippy and Mika's Road Trip. Each week, the Blippy Mobile will take your kids to amazing places.

Click, click, put your seatbelts on. Get ready for a ride, we're going to have some fun.

They'll explore and listen to the sounds of amazing places like farms, racetracks, the moon, and even... Construction time. That's right, Flippy.

Follow your ears, what do you hear?

And they'll meet new friends along the way. Alongside Flippy and Mika, your kids will learn awesome new things about the places and things they see and hear. It's a fun, interactive listening experience for the whole family. Listen to Flippy and Mika's road trip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

It was now 2016, Stacey and Justin had been together about a year, but he was on the medical track and needed to relocate to continue his training. Stacey and Justin's relationship was getting serious. Sometimes he'd stay at her place for several days at a time. Time, or she'd spend the weekend at his apartment. They couldn't imagine being apart. So the couple decided that Stacey and her kids would move with him for his residency. It was the last stage of training before becoming a doctor.

It was just like our, not really silent deal, but our deal that he was going to take care of me. I was going to take care of him.

Justin matched with a hospital system in Pennsylvania. So Stacey, Mikaela, and Tyler packed up their life and moved with Justin. This was the beginning of their next chapter as a growing family. Stacey's sister, Heather. It was like the storybook, romance. My sister wanted more children.

He didn't have any children. He loved her kids.

And Justin wanted kids, too. A year after the family moved to Pennsylvania, the couple had a baby girl together. And shortly after, Stacey became pregnant again. She shared an amazing family moment with me, a video where Justin opens a gender reveal envelope.

Oh, God.

Thank you, Jesus.

It actually says it's a boy. Oh, wow. I was about two seconds away from my actually dropping to the ground. Hey, little brother.

Their baby boy was born in 2019.

He delivered both of our kids. My OB, right when the baby was about to come out, she stepped to the side and let Justin deliver the babies. I remember I made a Facebook post after it, and I said, I didn't think I could love this man anymore. But when I saw him with his babies, it made me love him in a whole different way, on a different level. He was just so happy. You could tell he just was so excited to be a dad.

They had their love, their children, their family was complete. As they set their sights on the future, Justin received a full-time job offer. It was official. They were staying in Pennsylvania.

After residency was over, he accepted a position with their family med office in Exeter, Pennsylvania. My sister worked extremely hard to bring in enough money to take care of her kids and still try to give them a life that they deserved. But Justin offered her a sense of freedom. I mean, the salary.

And Stacey also had support. When the family moved to Pennsylvania, Justin's godmother moved with them. Her name is Deborah, and she helped Stacey with the little ones.

We called her Nanny McDee, like the Nanny McFee movie. She was a part of our family. Dee was living with Justin's mom since he was a baby.

When his mother died tragically during his college years, Nanny continued to maintain a close relationship with him. Here's Justin's college friend, Stacey Hayden.

Justin's mom got cancer and passed away, and her best friend was Dee, and she had promised to always take care of Justin.

As soon as they moved to Pennsylvania, Dee was living with them in a taking care of role.

So she was a living nanny and helped around the house.

The extra set of hands made a huge difference. Dee could watch the kids while Justin and Stacey worked. Although the couple were financially comfortable, Stacey learned a lot from her first marriage. Finally, those hectic years would pay off.

He made basically what I make right now. So we lived tight during that time. And then once he graduated from residency, I was going to continue working for the next five years instead of being a stay-to-home mom. He gave me that option. But I was like, No, I want to work.

Stacey carried a lot of baggage from her divorce and old debt. So Justin stepped in to help get control of her financial life.

He was real focused on making sure that I was out of debt and that I was in a good financial position. He paid off my student loans. He got my credit score back up to where it was actually a normal, decent credit score.

Justin didn't just look out for her well-being. He looked out for the kids.

He was more active in my life than my biological dad, and I felt closer to him.

Stacey's father, Rodney. I saw the good impact Justin had on Mikaela because Mikaela was not a great student in school.

Hope Mikaela doesn't mind me saying this, but the joke of the family was always, Thank God she's cute. If you had told me she was going to be going for her master's degree, I would say, Well, I don't know what you're smoking, but I'll take some of it.

And I think Justin helped her, inspired her even, to go farther than even I think she thought she could go.

I had two dads. They were both great, and I loved them equally. But I mean, he was a great dad. I called him dad. I didn't say stepdad. I had everything that I wanted. He took care of us. He gave us the life that I always wanted my kids to have.

It was the life they both wanted.

It was in a card or something like that where he said something to the effect of, Thank you for giving me the family that I never thought I would have.

And eventually, they made it official.

Our plan was, get married this year at the courthouse, and then the following year on our actual anniversary, have a big reception.

In 2018, Justin and Stacey were married in a civil ceremony with just family in attendance. She had waited so long for this moment.

I remember just saying to him, If I knew that I had to go through eight years of shitty relationships and devastation to get to you, I would do it all over again. I would tell him that all the time. I would walk through every bit of it again to find you. And when I was single, I would think of like, I wonder what his name is going to be. I remember I tell him one time, I just love saying your name because I wondered for so long what your name would be.

She finally knew her person, and she was now Mrs. Justin Rutherford. Life got even sweeter when they bought their five bedroom dream house, complete with a pool. The kids were in heaven. They had made it. Cynthia worked with Justin and went to his home for parties.

They seemed like the best American family. They had a beautiful home. They had a pool. They had the space for the kids to run around. They had a beautiful life.

The Rutherford house was always a hub for social activity. Tyler and Mikaela's friends spent a lot of time there. The pool, a movie theater, and all the video games, it was a big draw. And Stacey thrived playing hostess.

I loved when Tyler had all of his friends over in the summertime. He never had to ask to have friends over. It was just all such and such a stay in the night. Four of them are, and here I am cooking eight pounds of food. But we loved it. I joked that I was going to claim some of his friends on my taxes because they were there so much.

Their home life is something that I strive for, pure happiness. For the better part of six years, that's how Stacey viewed her life, too. Pure happiness. That was until August 10th, 2021, when she returned from work in the afternoon.

When I first walked up to the house, I just saw a bunch of vans and SUVs, and I thought that he had a bunch of Tyler's Hockey people over.

But there were no cars she recognized. Stacey quickly learned that these were unmarked police cars. Her house was being raided.

The detective came out. He was like, Ma'am, calm down. Your family's okay. Just come with us. I walked into the house. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were on each side of him, guarding him. Detective Weaver said, Well, I'm sure you know why we're here. And I looked at him and I was like, No, I absolutely don't know why you're here. There was such a deep feeling of knowing this is going to be bad. Our life is never going to be the same.

The police then wanted to meet with Stacey privately.

I went downstairs into the man cave with the detectives, and Detective Weaver had laid everything out on the couch. I was sick. It was a sickness that I felt as soon as I saw it.

Why were the police surrounding Justin? And what did they show Stacey?

It was just like, what is going on here? What in the world is going on?

That's next time on Betrayal. On this season of Betrayal, a family is thrown into chaos.

I mean, I was going to to kill if he was coming after me and my kids.

A husband, doctor, and father shocks his family.

There's no way that he could have done this.

And his patients.

It was a totally different man. I said, I don't know who that idiot was, but it clearly was not Dr. Rutherford.

As they learn who Justin Rutherford really is and what he is capable of.

He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Domer. The level of manipulation was like a serial killer.

If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us at betrealpod@gmail. Com. That's betrealpod@gmail. Com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeartPodcasts. The show is executive-produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Kari Hartman. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristen Malkuri and Grace Bollinger. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Special thanks to our talent, Stacey Rutherford, Tyler, and the rest of Stacey and Tyler's friends and family. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Salvecchio. Editing support from Nico Arruca. Betrayals theme, composed by Oliver Baines. Music library, provided by Mybe Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready to hear more? Remember, you can get access to 100% ad-free episodes with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Plus, you'll get access to the next episode one week ahead of everyone else. And you'll also get access to all episodes from Betrayal Season 1 and Season 2 ad-free as well. So open your Apple podcast app, search for iHeartTrueCrime+, and subscribe today.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Imagine you're a fly on the wall at a dinner between the Mafia, the CIA, and the KGB. That's where my new podcast begins. This is Neil Strauss, host of To Live and Die in LA. I wanted to quickly tell you about an intense new series about a dangerous spy taught to seduce men for their secrets and sometimes, their lives. From Tenderfoot TV, this is To Die For. To Die For is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.