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We had to take everything, every scenario into play. That's our responsibility.

After spending the whole evening combing for clues at the Hargan house, Homicide Detective Brian Bierson of the Fairfax County Police, knew something was off. The rifle leaning against Helen's dead body wasn't covered in blood. Both Helen and Pamela's cell phones had been wiped clean. And then, Later into the day, the detective learned what Helen's boyfriend, Carlos Gutieras, had told 911 dispatchers.

My girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom, and now my girlfriend won't answer her phone.

Carlos had said that Helen's sister, Megan, had killed Pamela.

We knew that Megan Hargan was at her father's home. I had a conversation with that detective, and I asked him to get a good statement from her as far as where she was and GSR her hands. Gunshot residue. Gunshot residue, yes.

The police took photos of Megan and gather evidence that evening. And Fairfax County police used one of their gunshot residue kits to test Megan's hands, and the result revealed something both suspicious and disturbing.

Megan Hargan had gunshot residue on her hands. There is no reason that she should have that.

By nightfall, the day of the shootings, detectives knew Megan had recently fired a weapon. Remember, both victims had been shot to death. The next day, another crucial piece of evidence came to light.

In these cases, we don't really know anything until other things happen, meaning the autopsy is extremely important in these cases.

Authorities examined Pamela and Helen's bodies.

At the autopsy, we realized that the gunshot wound on Helen Hargan was in the top of her head.

The entrance and exit wounds didn't make sense to Biersen.

We don't see a way that she could have made that, or she could have shot herself. With the trajectory that we were seeing in the X-rays.

We were face to face when Detective Biersen told me this. He then demonstrated what happened to Helen, according to the autopsy. He lifted up his arm and pointed straight down at the top of his head. That's the angle, he said, the bullet entered Helen's skull. From the top of her head down into her neck.

It's straight down, left to right.

In crime scene photos, the 22 caliber long rifle is aimed up, resting in her lap.

She would have to hold it straight up and be able to reach the trigger to accomplish this. I've never seen that before, and I've worked a lot of death cases. I've worked a lot of murders. I've never seen that. We had other detectives at the time that had much more experience than I did. We all agreed that this is not even a possibility.

In his mind, they were now investigating a double homicide.

So now this big puzzle, we're starting to fit pieces together, and we're starting to see a general outline of maybe what happened here.

Detective Byerson wanted to talk with the only other adult who said they were in the house the day of the shooting.

This is Megan Hargan. I'm sorry, I didn't have your phone number.

By then, Megan Hargan had talked on on the phone with Detective Biersen a few times.

I offered everything the first night. I said, Please, whatever you need.

But Biersen wanted to speak in person.

She had offered to come in one time and give us anything that we asked for, so we took advantage of that.

At this point, they've got evidence, and they want to confront Megan with some of it and see how she reacts. Would she have a good explanation for having touched the rifle? And if she did have something to do with the deaths of her loved ones, would she confess? I'm Peter Van Sant. From 48 Hours, Blood is Thicker, The Hargan Family Killing.

I gave you my clothing. I gave you my finger. I gave you everything because of that. Why would I give it if I knew I was guilty?

Episode 3, A Killer in Plane Sight. We wanted to know more about who Megan Hargan was. In early summer of 2022, we turned to Rebecca Wolf. She's one of Megan's closest friends. She told us more about the eldest daughter in the Hargan family.

Megan and I met through a lot of the animal rescue work that we did together, and we fostered some of the same dogs.

Rebecca said they met a couple of years before the shootings.

2015, 2016, we met and just hit it off right away.

They originally bonded over their love of animals. Megan volunteered for dog rescues and even helped veterans bring home dogs they had adopted overseas.

So it evolved, obviously, from just that topic to talking about all the things, talking about her daughter, talking about her family, talking about my family.

Rebecca said Megan often talked about her life and plans, including how she hoped to move into a new house in West Virginia. She described Megan as kind-hearted.

She will give you the shirt off her back. She raised a great daughter. Her daughter is one of the smartest kids I know.

We wanted to know if Megan had told Rebecca about any turmoil in the Hargan family, any worrisome signs.

You could call it the all-American family now because now the All-American family is messed up, right? So the Hargan family, as told to me, was your typical American family where mom and dad got divorced. All the drama that comes with that with new relationships, new spouses, stepparents.

But Rebecca didn't remember Megan being all that resentful or upset about her childhood.

As told by Megan, a very beautiful family family experience with the perfunctury weirdness of families.

Megan did tell Rebecca that at times she was frustrated with kids' sister Helen.

Helen was the baby sister. If you have siblings, the baby whatever is a pain always. But that doesn't mean you don't love them. That doesn't mean you don't go out of your way to help them. Megan did that for Helen a lot.

The gist Rebecca got from her friend was that Megan was the responsible one.

Megan was the mom of the crew. My understanding of Helen is that she was actually more of an introvert, that she was not the party animal. Ashley was more the party animal.

But Rebecca said that from what she knew, Megan, the oldest, always got along more with her middle sister Ashley than with Helen.

I never got the impression that relationship with Ashley was as maybe contentious as it was with Helen. The reason I use that word contentious is because, again, baby sisters can be a pain in the butt.

However, Megan said Helen was Particularly dependent on the family.

That was her attitude on life. Mom will take care of it. If mom doesn't take care of it, Megan will come down here and take care of it for me type thing. So again, she got the benefit of a mom and a secondary mom.

Helen isn't here to tell her side of things, but that's what Rebecca said Megan told her. And apparently, Megan never said a harsh word about her mother to Rebecca.

Megan admired Pam's wisdom, her career, all that she had done through her lifetime. She always spoke very lovingly of her.

Rebecca said her friend described Pamela as a strong matriarch.

Her loves in life were her daughters and her granddaughter. She and Molly had an exceptional relationship.

And as someone who enjoyed being generous.

It wasn't like, You want something again. It was, I want to do this for you.

Megan told her friend that her mother had insisted on helping pay for her new house.

Megan was in the process of moving to West Virginia. She didn't need to help.

Her husband Frank's salary was enough to get them a loan, but Pamela's help would let them buy a place outright with cash.

I mean, she was going out to get a house with her husband, the two of them, and her mom said, I want to contribute to this house for you. I want to help you buy this house. So her understanding was her mom was going to do something one way or the other.

Megan had been living with her mom for nearly eight years. Her husband, Frank, was a soldier who was often deployed overseas. Finally, the couple and their daughter would soon be back under the same roof and starting a new life in West Virginia. That was supposed to happen the day before Pamela and Helen died. Rebecca expected to get a call about their new ranch-style home, and not a tragedy.

Megan called me and left me a voicemail and just said, Hey, it's Megan. I just wanted to let you know something horrible has happened, and I don't want you to see it on the news. Mom and Helen are gone. Call me.

Megan sounded distraught.

I almost felt bad about calling her back because she sounded so upset.

Rebecca started googling for information. Police say Helen Hargan shot her mom, Pamela Hargan, before turning the gun on herself.

Nothing led me to, wow, I think Helen's going to murder her mom and kill herself over a house.

A week or two after the shootings, Rebecca said Megan came to visit her in Virginia. She didn't know then, Megan was a person of interest in her sister and mother's murders.

She just seemed very lost. I don't know any other way to put it. I think it probably took a long time for her to really wrap her arms around. My mom's gone. Helen's gone.

Rebecca sat with her friend not thinking, even for a second, that Megan could be the killer.

No, never once. That's the thing. She and I have had many, many conversations in the years since all this has happened, and I would not have let her in my house if I thought by any stretch of the imagination that what they accused her of was possible. I just wouldn't have. I'm biased. She's my friend. Do I think she did this? I always came back to, No, I do not. My spidey senses never went off. I do not believe that Megan killed her mom, Pam, or her sister, Helen.

But unlike Rebecca, detectives hadn't ruled out that Megan could be responsible for the double homicide.

What we're trying to find out, which we think it's important to you, too, is to find out who killed your sister and mom. That's what the main goal of this whole conversation is.

I did not kill my mom. Okay, then who did?

Biersen.

This is Megan Hargan. I'm sorry, I didn't have your phone number.

Oh, no problem, Megan. How are you holding up?

I am really not okay.

Megan Hargan called Detective Brian Biersen on July 17th, 2017. It had been three days since her sister and mother, Helen and Pamela Hargan, were found dead.

We're at home right I'm sorry.

That's all right. That's all right now.

I'm so sorry.

Detective Bierson's investigation had just taken a turn, and he had some questions for Megan.

Hey, do you have a second? Go ahead. Do you have a second? Go ahead. Okay.

They talked on the phone a couple of times that day. In the calls, Megan went back and forth between blaming her sister, Helen.

My sister was not my sister for many months.

And being adamant that the murder-suicide theory was out of the question.

I just can't imagine her doing something that violent.

The same day as these calls, Detective Bierson had learned of new evidence. He asked Megan for certain details on the phone, but asked her to come into the police station later that week.

I'll probably have you guys come out here, so we'll make sure that your schedule will allow it.

Can everything be done at once?

Yes.

Berson and Megan talked enough that day to fill up his recording device. Two days later, Megan arrived at the police station with her family. Their understanding was that detectives had new information.

She had offered to come in one time and give us anything that we asked for, so we took advantage of that. And myself and my partner, Detective Needles, had her come in for an update, as we termed it.

Detectives brought Megan to a small room for her to be fingerprinted. Byerson said the other family members were taken into another room.

She comes up, she meets with Detective Julia Elliott. We take a DNA sample from her. We take her fingerprints. Yes. Okay. She's going to take care of the fingerprints, okay? Yeah. And the DNA stuff. Then when she's done, Steve and I will come in here and we'll get you updated, okay?

After they are finished with the test, Megan sat down with Detective Bierson and Detective Needles.

Well, thanks for coming. I appreciate it.

I don't mean to harp on this, but I'm here. What do you need? Sure.

He may not have-Megan could leave whenever she wanted. Bierson told her as much.

If you want to leave, let me know. I will walk you back downstairs. Okay. I just want to make sure that you understand that I'm not holding you here. Okay. Then we then start going through this update with her.

Is this a conversation that's on video?

It is. It's about four and a half hours long. Most of that is because at some point, we just can't get her to leave.

Detective Bierson sat across from her and leaned back a little in the chair.

We didn't have enough at that time to charge her officially, so we wanted to get a statement on the record from her.

The interview went on and on for hours. At At times, it got contentious.

She had very inappropriate emotional responses at weird times. She got very angry at us for weird things. We asked her if she'd ever done it in any drugs.

Anything about drug use?

Oh, my God. No.

You never had? No.

All right. No. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was a really strong rate.

At one point in the interview, Megan told the investigators that she had called police to report two two suspicious men in the neighborhood, one Black, the other Asian. This is something Megan had brought up to Berson before. She said she reported the suspicious men the day before the murders.

You guys What about I had to call the police, or my mom asked me to call the police because there was those two guys.What.

Did he just heard about?That was Thursday. That was Thursday.

Detective John Vickery, remember he was the cop at the father's house on the day of the tragedy. He'd recorded Megan talking these two men on the day of the shootings.

I had to call the police over those guys. You just know that's not somebody that's in your neighborhood thing because we're a very quiet neighborhood.

Megan told Vickery that to be safe, her mom asked her to hide the rifle in the family room.

I don't think she would ever, in a rush, try to get it out. It was in a bag.

Detective Bierson checked into Megan's story, but no one, besides her, had mentioned these men to police.

The only call that's made about these guys in the neighborhood is from Megan Hargan.

Another issue Detective Biersen wanted to nail down was all those houses Pamela Hargan was supposedly buying and selling. He asked about the one Megan was buying with her husband.

What is the situation with that house? You guys are buying. How's that working?

Okay, so she was going to do a wire transfer. She said, It's too late for me to do a cashier's check. Because she just thought, she was like, I can always do a wire transfer. That's what she just thought. She had done it before, I think, with another house.

That wire transfer for more than $400,000 would never go through. That money didn't leave Pamela's account. So what was the problem? Megan blamed a series of complications. There was an issue about which bank account the money for the house would come from. She told Detective Bierson Pamela was going to use the money from a family trust.

Yeah, because at first we thought the trust were already going to be dissolved. It was supposed to happen May 24th, and it never did. Or I don't know if it's legally a mess. I don't know what happened. I don't know. Because you don't know much about the trust situation. No. My mom just told us, You're going to be fine. You can have that for your house.

But that didn't turn out to be true. Megan wouldn't get that house. And by the next day, that Friday, Pamela and Helen Hargan would be dead. Here's Detective Needle.

Did she ever wire the money to them?

She had... Okay, that's what happened Thursday. This is why Thursday is very important for me because I realize this is a big amount of money, and I realized because of what happened, you guys are... I got you. I got you. I got you.

What?

Suddenly, Megan's mood shifted.

They're looking at me. Looking at you? Yeah. I mean, looking at you because you might be responsible. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah.

By then, Megan understood she was in their sights. One hour into the interview, Megan showed no signs of wrapping up her version of events with Detectives Bierson and Needles.

I'm sorry. That's okay. Friday is very difficult for you. It's understandable. But obviously, Friday is important.

They're surprised how long Megan stayed with them in that little room at the police station.

It It was probably more like three hours of actual back and forth and an hour and a half of just like, we're trying to figure out, she won't leave.

She even tried to convince them that her cooperation was a sign of innocence.

I gave you my clothing. I gave you my fingerprint. I gave you everything because of that. Why would I give it if I knew I was guilty?

As the interview progressed, the detective's questions became more and more direct. They brought up the 911 calls from Helen's boyfriend, Carlos Gutieras.

Because there are a lot of phone calls, and there's a lot from Carlos.

She never told me. She didn't tell me to leave her that Carlos called her.

No, but he How did you answer the phone? And if that call is on the records.

The detectives bore in, saying they didn't believe Megan. She claimed she'd never spoken to Carlos when they knew she had.

I have never talked to him. Never. The closest thing I have ever gotten to him, fourth of July, they were coming to get the blankets, and I was at the bottom of the stairs. My mom was like, No, they're still in the drive Why?

Because you've never spoken to him.

But as we told you last episode, Carlos said he spoke to Megan for nearly 10 minutes while he tried to get her to put Helen on the phone. Then the detectives asked her outright about what Carlos told 911, that Helen said she killed their mom. Why would he say something like that?

What would be his motive to implicate you?

Why you?

Why would he pick you? He knows I live there. And I think.

What?

I don't want to say what I think.

We want you to... Anything that will help you say it.

I don't want to say... I don't want to say what I think. I don't want to say what I think.

I'm sorry. Why not?

You think you said you killed your mother?

There's no way. I would have heard it.

Megan's response here doesn't line up with what she originally told police. She had said she and her daughter, Molly, left the house before the shootings. So it's unclear what she meant by, I would have heard it. Here's Megan again.

The only time I I was downstairs. I would assume I would still hear something like that. And my mom was with me. How? I just don't understand how.

How what?

How that would have happened. I don't understand. I'm sorry. I don't know.

It seemed that Megan was struggling to keep her story straight. She wasn't sure Helen was the killer anymore. The detectives started this interview not knowing what they'd get, but some recently discovered evidence had made them curious about how Megan planned to pay for her new house in West Virginia. She said her mom was going to wire the money.

She initiated the wire transfer.

Her story had changed yet again. Megan had told police that something got tripped up when her mother wired the money. The detectives waited before pointing out the holes in Megan's story. If she's going to talk, let her talk.

We were texting. I mean, you guys got my phone. Give me my phone. You can see the text that we're back and forth. She was like, Okay, listen. At first, it counts. I'm going to deal with this when I get back down there.

Up until this moment, Megan insisted that her mom called the bank. But you heard Megan say it right there to the detectives, and they had looked through her phone. The The evidence was clear, but detectives had some evidence Megan didn't know existed. The recordings from Capital One. They could listen to who made the request to wire money, and they offered to play Megan some of the tape.

When you call the bank to do a wire transfer, they record the calls, right? Okay. So one of the things that's always been bothering me a little bit is that call.

Meanwhile, in the other room where Megan's family is waiting, police were playing the calls for them, too. They recognized the voice. When they arrived at the police station, Megan's family was standing by her. But now...

So they're hearing the calls, and I think what's going on is that they're realizing on that day that, Oh, my God, there is a good chance that she actually did this.

On the next episode of Blood is Thicker, an incriminating call.

Good morning.

Thank you for calling Capital & Bate.

My name is Brooks.

Would you tell me your name, please?

Pamela Hansen-Hurgen. Pamela Hurgen.

Thank you for using our automated system for verification. What can I do for you today?

I was just transferred to you. I was told that I could do a wire transfer online.

Wait. Is that Pamela? From 48 Hours, this is Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings. Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours. Original reporting by 48 Hours producers Josh Jäger, Sarah Ealey Hulse, Michelle Sagona, and Lauren White. Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount Paramount Audio, and Mara Walls is the Senior Story Editor. Recording assistance from Alan Pang and Marlyn Polycarp. Special thanks to Paramount podcast Vice President, Megan Marcus, and 48 Hours Senior Producer, Peter Schweitzer. Blood is Thicker is produced by Sony Music Entertainment. It was written and produced by Alex Schumann. Our executive producers are Katherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Our associate producer is Zoe Culkin. Theme and original music composed by Hansdale Shee. He also sound-designed and mixed the episodes. We also use music by Blue Dot Sessions. Katherine Nuhann is our fact checker. Our production managers are Tamika Balanskolasny and Samantha Allison. I'm Peter Van Sant. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to rate and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. For early and ad-free access to Blood is Thicker, subscribe to 48hours+ on Apple Podcasts or WNDRI Plus on the WNDRI app.

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