What is up, daddy? Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with call her daddy, Ally Raisman. Welcome to call her daddy.

Thank you so much for having me.

I am so happy that we're doing this. I'm such a huge fan. I've been a huge fan for a while. To be able to, like, sit here in person with you, it's an honor. So thank you for being here.

I am such a big fan of you, too. And I think we have the same name. Is your legal name Alexandra?

Yes.

Me, too. Should we call each other Alexandra?

Should we go by Alexandra today?

Yeah. Nobody calls me Alexandra in interviews.

Oh, my God. I wonder, like, how did you get Ally? And how did I get Alex? Like, who. Where did you.

Oh, okay. So, first of all, I'm a very big fan of you, too. Congratulations on everything. It's amazing. Love listening to your podcast. So, my legal name is Alexandra, and really, no one calls me that. When I was little, I used to actually be called sexy Lexi, which is probably weird, but when I was, like, five years old, everyone called me sexy Lexi. I don't know why.

Okay, Ally.

I didn't know what sexy meant, but everyone called me sexy Lexi in kindergarten. Like, even, like, some of the moms around me, too, they still call me that to this day. And then when I was, like, a couple years later, I thought my real name was Alexandra. And I asked my to go into that bathroom and to eat in secrecy because of the coaches and the mentality and the rules and the strictness, and even thinking of that doctor saying that to you of, like, wait, you're 5%. Like, do you think you were numb at that point? Like, did you feel anything? Like, what did you feel when someone said that to you and looked at you and said that to you?Morgan? I think at that point, because the Olympics were so soon, big twister of a storm of all these things, and it's like, poke the bag. And they're so moody, and it's like, why are you moody? They can't tell you because they don't know how to, half the time, express their emotions. Bye.I just wish men knew. Like, I find it so attractive when a guy is vulnerable and open. Like, if a guy, it's so. I think it's so hard to find a man who's secure enough in himself to be like, can you just sit down with me for a minute? I'm, like, having a really tough day, or I'm struggling on this. Like, I would feel so into that and so attracted to that that I wish more men knew that. And that is so attractive. And I feel I have empathy for them that they feel like they can't. They have to be so tough all the time. It's so. There's literally nothing better when you're, like, on a date and you're just, like, vibing and you're just, like, social.Yeah.Connecting about stuff. And it's just. It's really nice to have that connection where you both don't feel judged. You both can go to each other. And I think that that is hard to find. Like, I think relationships, it should be. They should be hard to find because I think that's what makes, like, finding the right person, you know, more special.In your twenties, what partners were you pursuing? Like, describe?Oh, I used to. I used to really go for the athletes, the professional athletes, and it's really hard to find a really good one. There have been few very sweet ones, and I'm grateful for that. But, yeah, it's, um. It was, it's hard. It's hard to find a good one.I just think that give me some qualities.Yeah, I definitely wasn't treated the way I think that girls deserve to be treated, I think. Yeah, I think that was definitely my type. But I also will say what's interesting is, like, for years, people were like, you gotta stop dating the athletes. I was like, all right, I'll date. Like, I'll go on a date with anyone. And I've been, like, so open. I literally would, like, if someone set me up with someone, like, I don't need to see a picture. Like, I'll just go on a date. And I go on these dates and I'm like, okay, maybe I should be like. It's like, finding that I was trying to, like, find the right balance of, like, trying to be more open, because I also think it's, like, crazy when we meet someone, you feel a vibe and, like, you know, you think about, like, maybe if someone showed you a photo of them, you wouldn't have maybe said yes. So I try to be, like, very open minded, but, like, even dating guys who are not professional athletes and, like, not in the public eye, like, some of them are not great either. So it just really just depends.I think that there's always, like, good guys and same thing with. I'm sure guys will say the same thing. There are some girls who they are women they've dated that are wonderful, and others, like, we all have had probably good and bad experiences. But I think that what I've also learned, I'm curious what you think about this is, like, I used to take it so personally when I was younger. Like, if I dated an athlete, they were probably texting 30 people the same time. Like, if they're not looking for something, there's just most of the time, there's no chance, like, they're not interested, and it's not. I wish I knew, like, dating wasn't personal because I used to take it very personal when I was younger, and now I'm realizing, like, at least for me, I feel like guys show pretty quickly, like, what they're looking for and what they're interested in. Like, I'd have a guy, like, years ago who, like, you know, would, like, text me, like, once every, you know, two weeks or, like, barely take me to her. I'm like, oh, my God. Do you think he's just busy? It's like, no, he's just not interested.He's definitely not busy. Yeah, he could be busy, but he's also not interested.Yeah. Like, I think now I do a better job of not overthinking and just being like, they're either, like, I love. I saw something on Instagram. It's like, when a guy is into you, you know, if you're confused, it's just not it. And I really tell myself that, too. Like, it doesn't mean, especially in the beginning, like, every person has, like, a different cadence of how, like, even if, you know, sometimes I think people get so caught up in, like, oh, if you're texting every day or doing this, like, is. Are they taking you out to dinner? Are they showing interest? Are they like, you? I think that our gut is usually right and we should listen to that more because I think that that is something I wish I listened to more is like, understanding that if a guy is, like, looking, then they're looking, but if they're not, it's like, it's kind of hard to, I think in my experience, like, change their mind.I completely agree with you. And I think though, what I have started to realize, I would say in the past couple years is like, I used to look at it a lot, like, oh, I wish I would have done differently. And I actually, the only thing I would change about everything you're saying is, like, I think that guys definitely do show you immediately, like, what their kind of down to give you. And I think a lot of the times when we are not completely, like, full within ourselves and healthy and good and, like, know exactly what we want, we ignore that and we just choose to, like, kind of see what we want out of them. And I think that's normal and that's natural because that just means you're not ready for that endgame relationship yet. You still have work to do. Because if you are going for someone that is treating you like that, it's because you're working something out on your end of, like, you needed to get this certain validation and you liked this one part of them and you're completely ignoring the part where they're, like, treating you like shit. And then eventually it ends because you wake up to being like, I feel like shit.Why is this happening? And then you go to the next relationship. And then maybe if you go for something a little different, it's because you're looking for something different to fill the void of x, y, z. All of a sudden, these string of moments of dating, all these different people builds you into this healthy person because you start to just create your palate of, like, taste of, like, I like this. I definitely would never go for that because we all know it. You go on the date, and all of a sudden you're like, I remember my ex did that. I'm. Nope, I'm not interested. And you're out. But you needed to learn it in the first place to even recognize it. That's how I felt like when I met Matt, there were so many green flags. And I always say, had I met Matt when I was, like, 22, I would have probably not dated Matt because I wasn't ready for Matt. So, like, I think in a way, when you're dating, there's. There's almost like, a hopeful element I can give to all the girls listening if, like. And you of like, this is really exciting because you are, like, building this, like, repertoire of like, memory and understanding.And you're just understanding what you like, what you don't like, and you're putting up with things as shitty as it feels in the moment that you'll never put up with again unless you don't grow. And half of the battle is on you when people are like, God, this happened to me again. Did it happen to you or did you put yourself in that position again?I know I once had actually a male therapist say to me one time, he was like, I was just talking to him about dating and he was like, why do you think you're attracting these people who are treating you that way?I was like, pulling yourself out the window.Okay, you have a point. I was like, but maybe you couldn't say. You could say it a little bit nicer. But he was like, why do you, what do you think is like, wrong with you that you're attracting people like that? And I was like, that is something that, like, I'm the common denominator, so like, I have to, and also that is separate from, like, if someone's in an abusive relationship, very different. Like, very, very different. But for me, like, I just had to take a hard look at being like, I also go through phases where like, I'll go on dates and then I'm like, I need a break and I need to take dating Fatima. Yeah. I need to take some time for myself. And it's really interesting. Cause like, the times where I'm the most happy being single and on my own, I like, really try to think about, I'm only gonna date someone or let someone in my life if they just like, enhance or add to my life. And I think that really helps when I have that foundation of knowing what I want and what I'm looking for. But it is, it's, I definitely like the idea of being with someone when it's not right is just so lonely to me, and I just don't want that.It's so lonely. And I, I need to find this article. I read it so many years ago that my mom sent me. Now looking back, I'm like, I think she sent this to me when I was in my previous relationship that I was miserable. And thanks, mom. And it's a little like diagram that this person wrote. And it's an article about how like, someone that is single is one step away from a healthy relationship. Someone that is married in or in a relationship in a miserable relationship is three steps away from a healthy, happy relationship because they have to remove themselves from that relationship, then they have to get good on their own again, and then they can start to seek health and happiness with another person. But it's like, that's so exciting. And you have to be. I be so intentional about who you let into your space. But I agree, it's like, you have to get so good with yourself because that's when you really start to attract good energy. When you get out of a relationship and you fling yourself to the next, that's when you're just kind of, like, off balance, just trying to find anything that will, like, make you feel happy.But for a quick moment, it's not like you're actually stable enough to be like, hold on. What did I learn from that relationship? Let me be alone for a minute now. Let me go find something better. It's really tough, though. It can get exhausting.It is exhausting. I'm curious what you think about this, because I feel like a lot of people have different opinions on, like, when I go on a first date. Like, if I am not excited to see them again, like, if I'm even on the fence, I'm not going on a second date. I'm curious what your perspective is on that. I just think it should be easy and comfortable.Okay. I have thoughts.Okay.I was just having this conversation with a friend because she is dating right now. And she was like, I didn't go on a second date with him. And I was like, why? And she was like, I don't know. The sparks weren't there. And I was like, did they kiss? No.Sometimes you don't know until you kiss, right?I agree. I agree.Sometimes it's like, I will say that sometimes there's almost this awkwardness, and then when you kiss, you need to get.Out of the way.Yes.I kind of, like, am so down for a first kiss on a date. Condone it.Well, you know what's kind of funny is sometimes, like, I feel like it's funny. The guys who are, like, comfortable just, like, grabbing you and kissing on the first day, I found sometimes they're just, like, so smooth, know what they're doing, and maybe they're a little bit more of a player.Yes, I agree.But, like, so it's. And then sometimes the guys that are a little bit more timid. Not always, but they're just, like, trying to be, like, really sweet and respectful, and it just depends on, like, their experience. Like, if you're dating a professional athlete.Like, they grabbing the back of your neck.Yeah. Yeah.Like, three weeks later, you're like, hello?Yeah, yeah. You're like, wait, you just go to me. You just told me you wanted to date me, and then you just go to me. What is that?We're getting married. Okay.It just depends. It depends on who it is. You have to, like, know the person.Yeah.So I think it depends. Like, I do. Yeah. Whenever I. Yeah. Okay. Okay.My theory is this. What my friend said to me was she was like, well, you said that, like, you and Matt had sparks immediately on the first date. And I'm like, that is true. However, I have been in love before, and I have been in love with people before that. I didn't feel the, like, insane spark on the first date. And so I think my. My new rule that I tell my friends is, unless it was, like, so bad that you were, like, whether it was how they spoke about something that you're like, I don't like the way they spoke about, like, their family or their mom or, like, whoa, that was a red flag. If it was, like, a yemenite, it was a good date. Like, I don't know if the vibe is there, but I can't tell. Like, go on the second date because I feel like first dates, unless you are a fucking pro. And then yet again, why are you a pro at first dates? It is, like, harder than a job interview, in my opinion, because a job interview, you have your piece of paper, and you're reading your exact qualifications, and it doesn't actually matter that much on your personality.This is, like, every fucking thing of the delicate dance of your looks. Your. Are you funny? Are you charismatic? What's your personality? Do you vibe? It all has to match perfectly in 1 hour at a dinner. Like, give it a second shot. I think once the second date doesn't go well, never see them again. But if it was like a. Hmm, I don't know. I would say, try it again. And I would say, try a different vibe than the first eight. So if you did a dinner, now go do an activity. If you did an activity, now go sit down and have face to face dinner, I would say do a second date.I think it also depends on if you're dreading going on a second date. Yeah, don't.But I think check in with yourself. Check in with yourself. Because I used to do that, and it was like, am I dreading going on the second date? Does it have anything to do with him, or am I being lazy? And am I being. And when I say lazy, I'm not actually being lazy. Am I being like, I want this to be easy. I wanted to feel it immediately. I wanted the spark to be there, and I wanted to be a done deal, and I wanted to be like, boom. It's not easy because do the work in the beginning. Because then once you actually. In a relationship, like, that's also another set of just hell where you're, like, figuring out each other's trauma and boundaries and family shit. Like the first date. I don't know. I don't think. I don't think we can count people out unless there's a glaring issue.You're like, okay, let me know. I feel like a lot of people say that, but what do you think about if you're on a first date or a second date and you kiss and the kidde, you don't feel that's that. I don't use the word spark because I feel like that's, like, unrealistic, but you just.Connection.Yeah. It's not there, do you? I don't. I think if you don't have that, like, physical sexual chemistry in the beginning, I don't think you can, like, create it.I completely agree. And I think that is so disappointing.When that happens, too.It is so sad because you are, like, versus when if you went on a first date, you didn't kiss, and you go on a second date and you are, like, kind of fantasizing about it. You're, like, walking around your place. You're, like, drinking your coffee in the morning, like, picturing, like, you're almost, like, creating, like, a movie in your head of, like, what it's gonna be. And then it happens, and you're literally, like. You're like, oh, God, I'm never gonna see you again. And that was not. And then when they're into it and you're not.That's what I was gonna say, too. I sometimes feel like. Do you think that, like, we are sometimes more picky about that than men?Yes. Because I think that you also then don't know their intention completely. Are they just hoping that they're gonna sleep with you while you're like, oh, I'm actually, like, looking for a partner. So they're like, hey, ally, that was amazing. Let's go back to your place. And you're literally like, I hate you. I literally felt nothing below the belly button. Like, we gotta go home. I think that men are less picky because men are just like dogs and they're just like, oh, that was great. Meanwhile, it's like, like, no, that wasn't great. Like, what about. That was great, Daniel, like, that was bad. Leave me alone. So, no, I think you, I think you're on the right track. I also think everyone is different. But I don't know, ladies, maybe this is like the year of second dates, because then at least you're, I think then you're training yourself to. Maybe then you can just start knowing in the first date, but start pushing yourself to see if there is a shift ever on the second date. And then maybe there is. And then you're like, like, holy shit. Maybe I need to stop counting people out.Because what I said to my friend was, she was so cute. She was like, you know me, I can be a little socially awkward in the moment. And I was like, but think about this. How many times have you told me, I wish people knew me? Like, in settings with, like, all of us and our friends, when I'm the most comfortable, you wish that people would give you that, so give that to the other person.Wow. Okay.Right?Convinced me. We're going on a second date.Get your phone out, girl. We're like, I think, listen, there's, there's no harm in it. And what I can say is, if you are super anxious about the first date or second date, oh, you could do it as like a drinks or something that you have somewhere to go afterwards. So you always have an out. And then if you're vibing, be like, let me cancel my fucking dinner. Like, let's actually have dinner together. Let's go down the street. But you can always give yourself an out. Like, let's. I have like, an hour before, like, a work thing. I have to go to, like, want to meet for drinks. Like, it doesn't have to be this fucking three course sit down dinner where you're literally, like, at the appetizers and he'sOkay.I'm not sharing anything else.Was it a first date?Yeah. Not sharing anything else. I keep saying that. Yeah.I'm not sharing anything else. You're like, Alex, Alex. I'm like, did it go well? Yeah, but I'm not sharing anything. I just keep asking.You keep answering. Yeah, I did. That's all I'm saying.Did you meet on a dating app or.Nope.Nope. Should I keep asking? Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. We're moving on. This has been fabulous.I know. This is.I'm, like, having the best time. I'm like, I could keep going. I love, though, the biggest point that I love about you writing that article, too, was about calling out, like, I'm 30 now. And, like, everyone's like, what do you do? Like, you are young and you are beautiful, and you are successful. And I think it's important, especially for women. I understand we have our biological clock. Don't rush into something just because of a biological clock. Like what? Like what? And be miserable with a random person that you hate just because, like, we're 30 times up. Like. No. What are you the most excited about? Like, entering your thirties right now?Well, I feel like I'm most excited because I. I've been told for a long time that when you hit 30, you kind of care less. And so I'm, like, slowly getting there, but I think I'm just excited to, like, peel back the layers of who I am and just have more fun, focus more on my personal life. And also, I had a friend one time tell me it was at her bachelorette party, actually, and this was years ago, and she just said, you have so much to look forward to. You still have that. So for anyone who's single, this actually really helped me. You still have that first day, your first kiss, going into that talking stage and falling in love, and, like, there's still so much to look forward to. And if you're in a relationship or you're married, you still have so much to look forward to as well. Like, there's so much different, beautiful variations and chapters of life that I'm excited to keep growing and evolving and figuring out who I am, because I also think it's important to give ourselves, like, space and permission to. If you want to outgrow a friendship, you want to try something new, you want to, whatever it is, like, do what you want to do and do what makes you happy.So I'm starting to, like, care a little bit less, but I think that's beautiful. Can you tell I care too much?No, no.Too much.You're like, I don't care, alex.I'm like, I swear I don't, but I do.Like, I literally don't give a shit.Shit.I actually think when you were saying that, it just made me think of something that is kind of beautiful. When I was reading that article you wrote, it was really interesting, and you mentioned it earlier, talking about comparison, right, of Instagram. And it's like, every fucking week, you open your phone, and it's like someone got engaged or someone had a baby. And I look back at when I was single, and I talked about this recently, like, I have two different friend groups. One friend group is, like, all married and have babies, and I'm, like, the one last on the totem pole. And then my other friend group is, like, I'm ahead of the friend group in terms of, like, my relationship status or whatever the hell you want to call it. And I realize, like, we compare ourselves when we're single to the people in relationships that are getting married and all that stuff. We need to stop. Because what I can tell you all is this. Here's a secret. I am now married, and now I'm comparing myself to the moms. And what I hear from the moms is then you compare yourself in your parenting style and where your kids are at, and then you compare what your, like, what is your life balance to your kids and your career.It's like the comparison literally never stops unless you stop it. And so, yes, it feels right now, like, this big point of, like, whoa, I'm either married or I'm not. It's not just that. It's every fucking aspect of life is every fucking thing. Women are just. We keep comparing ourselves. Am I doing it as good? Am I doing it as good? And so I thought it would stop. Like, whoa, I'm. I'm about to turn 30 this summer. I just got married. And I'm like, it really doesn't matter that I got married. Like, oh, no, it does. Sorry, Matt. No, it does. It does. It does, I promise. But I bet, I mean, in terms of that, like, of course it was amazing and beautiful, but I also would have been so happy if it happened at 35. You know what I mean? Like, or 40. Like, the timeline, we need to be nicer to ourselves because the comparison game, the next step you get to, that's a whole new can of worms of comparing. So, like, don't worry.It is. It's so interesting because for women, as you mentioned before, like, we have that biological clock. And it's also, like, so unfair how inaccessible egg freezing is for women and how expensive it is. And I think it's so unfair because for the women that are able to afford it, I think for so many, it gives you sort of, like, a little bit more, a little bit longer timeline. Not a little bit, but probably a lot longer if you're able to afford it and you're able to even, like, take off the time you need for work and everything where men don't have to worry about that. So it's very different. And I think it's so messed up how expensive egg retrieval is. It's so expensive. And obviously people need it for various reasons, but I think that adds a really complicated piece to it. And I also think I. That there's also so much pressure. I was gonna put this in the article, but then I just, like, didn't. It's like a balance of not writing too much and. But there's also so many people, like, don't want to be a mom, and that's also okay.And I think a lot of people feel guilty for that. And if someone doesn't want to be a mom or a dad, they don't have to be. And I feel like people are so judgmental. And I know, you know, for some of my friends that are married, like, they must feel like everywhere they go, people are asking them, when are you having kids? And it's like. Like, it's just not everyone wants to, but it's also so much pressure. And also so many people struggle with infertility, and it's just such a personal thing that people go through, and there's just, like, so many layers to it. But I just think, like, I'm someone where I've always wanted to be a mom, and I'm excited for that, but I can't imagine, like, how frustrating it must be for people who don't want to be a mom but maybe feel like they have to be or they feel the pressure. Yeah.No, I love that you're saying that Allie. And I think this is like, it's like the trickle down effect of, like, I think a huge thing. I'm also taking from this. And I try really hard. Like, I never ask people in interviews, like, do you want kids? Because it's like we don't know anything behind the scenes. Kind of like when you said, when people ask me, why are you tired? Literally, stop. Just stop. Stop asking people. Like, I, like, oh, my God, the minute I got engaged. When are you getting married? When are you having kids? I'm like, oh, my God. Like, some of these people feel so entitled to answers that they have no business having or even asking. And I feel like we need to stop asking people, do you want kids? Or, oh, my God, when are you getting married? And, like, are you dating ally? It's like, read the room. If you have now asked Ally or one of your single friends constantly, every time you see them, imagine how annoying that is. Like, imagine how frustrating that is. Like, maybe. Wait, like, how. What's going on in your life? Like, how are you doing?Well, like, if I was in a, like, happy relationship, like, you would know. I will tell you exactly. Like, they'd be here with me. You'd know. You know, sometimes it's. Yeah, I was at a group dinner, and someone actually that I didn't know the other day was like, like, in front of everyone. And they mean well, but they're just like, so, Allie, like, what's the dating life like? And what, like, are you dating anyone now? And I'm like, after being asked ten times that day, I'm like, I just. Why is this always have to be the conversation? Like, why can't it just be? It's just all the time, like, what.Have you been up to? Like, do you have, like, anything fun you're looking forward to? What are you up to this summer? Like, I think that we. Yeah, I would just say daddy gang. Like, be more cognizant. Anytime you're asking your friends whether they're the single friends, whether they're the married friends, whatever it is, like, be mindful and read some context clues of, like, if your friend hasn't brought up kids to you, maybe it's because she doesn't want them, or maybe she's having a hard time with it. Like, being a little bit more generalized in our questioning and, like, letting them answer what they want to answer about their life and stop leading with, like, something so pointed that kind of puts them on the spot. It's like, excuse you.It's, like, shocking. I think for people. The reason why I also want to do the article was because it's like, how often do we hear someone be like, I just turned 30, and I'm feeling better than I have in a very long time. And I'm also, like, I'm okay with being single. Like, I'd rather be single and wait until I have a good match. And I also feel like, as a woman, too, I don't know if you ever struggle with this, with dating, but I felt like, as I got older, I have this. I'm like, I really hope that guys don't perceive, just because they know my age that I'm, like, desperate or, like, you know, that, like, perception of, like, I feel like, I hope they're not thinking. I'm just, like, in a rush because I don't have a timeline. I genuinely don't. And I always wonder that.I think you can. I think you can point to that by the way you speak on your dates, of, like, yeah. Like, I'm just, like, I'm. I'll be honest. I'm dating, and I'm kind of just, like, looking for people that, like, I like to spend time with. And, like, I'm not in any rush to do anything. I'm just, like, looking for, like, a good person to, like, hang out with and spend time with. And, like, I think the way that you speak about it.Yeah.Can immediately disarm that concept of, like, no, you're not desperate. You're actually, like, better than ever right now, and you're, like, working on yourself, and. And no one is gonna get to just come in and, like, be your partner. They're gonna have to be really fucking great. Okay, last question. What is something that you've learned about yourself recently that you wish you had known in your early twenties?Oh, good one. I wish that I trusted my gut more and just listened to that more and also realizing it's okay, in fact, important to be myself. And I found the more I figure out who I am, the more. The better relationships I have and the more fun that I have. So, yeah, I think trusting my gut.Allie, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. This was, like, one of my favorite conversations. I just feel like we hit so many different points. You are so smart and just, like, such a fascinating human being, and I really appreciate you opening up, because I just know this episode is going to touch so many women, and, like, you really went in so many different directions that I'm like, I have no questions left. Like, you killed it. You crushed it. Thank you for coming on like, I'm so happy we finally met, and now let's go hang out in Paris.Oh, my gosh. Wait, are you gonna be 30 in Paris?No, August, but we'll do it.Oh, that's fine. Yeah, we're gonna, like. We're gonna be, like, our third. Yeah, we're gonna have.Okay, perfect.Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. This was so wonderful.This was amazing.

to go into that bathroom and to eat in secrecy because of the coaches and the mentality and the rules and the strictness, and even thinking of that doctor saying that to you of, like, wait, you're 5%. Like, do you think you were numb at that point? Like, did you feel anything? Like, what did you feel when someone said that to you and looked at you and said that to you?

Morgan? I think at that point, because the Olympics were so soon, big twister of a storm of all these things, and it's like, poke the bag. And they're so moody, and it's like, why are you moody? They can't tell you because they don't know how to, half the time, express their emotions. Bye.I just wish men knew. Like, I find it so attractive when a guy is vulnerable and open. Like, if a guy, it's so. I think it's so hard to find a man who's secure enough in himself to be like, can you just sit down with me for a minute? I'm, like, having a really tough day, or I'm struggling on this. Like, I would feel so into that and so attracted to that that I wish more men knew that. And that is so attractive. And I feel I have empathy for them that they feel like they can't. They have to be so tough all the time. It's so. There's literally nothing better when you're, like, on a date and you're just, like, vibing and you're just, like, social.Yeah.Connecting about stuff. And it's just. It's really nice to have that connection where you both don't feel judged. You both can go to each other. And I think that that is hard to find. Like, I think relationships, it should be. They should be hard to find because I think that's what makes, like, finding the right person, you know, more special.In your twenties, what partners were you pursuing? Like, describe?Oh, I used to. I used to really go for the athletes, the professional athletes, and it's really hard to find a really good one. There have been few very sweet ones, and I'm grateful for that. But, yeah, it's, um. It was, it's hard. It's hard to find a good one.I just think that give me some qualities.Yeah, I definitely wasn't treated the way I think that girls deserve to be treated, I think. Yeah, I think that was definitely my type. But I also will say what's interesting is, like, for years, people were like, you gotta stop dating the athletes. I was like, all right, I'll date. Like, I'll go on a date with anyone. And I've been, like, so open. I literally would, like, if someone set me up with someone, like, I don't need to see a picture. Like, I'll just go on a date. And I go on these dates and I'm like, okay, maybe I should be like. It's like, finding that I was trying to, like, find the right balance of, like, trying to be more open, because I also think it's, like, crazy when we meet someone, you feel a vibe and, like, you know, you think about, like, maybe if someone showed you a photo of them, you wouldn't have maybe said yes. So I try to be, like, very open minded, but, like, even dating guys who are not professional athletes and, like, not in the public eye, like, some of them are not great either. So it just really just depends.I think that there's always, like, good guys and same thing with. I'm sure guys will say the same thing. There are some girls who they are women they've dated that are wonderful, and others, like, we all have had probably good and bad experiences. But I think that what I've also learned, I'm curious what you think about this is, like, I used to take it so personally when I was younger. Like, if I dated an athlete, they were probably texting 30 people the same time. Like, if they're not looking for something, there's just most of the time, there's no chance, like, they're not interested, and it's not. I wish I knew, like, dating wasn't personal because I used to take it very personal when I was younger, and now I'm realizing, like, at least for me, I feel like guys show pretty quickly, like, what they're looking for and what they're interested in. Like, I'd have a guy, like, years ago who, like, you know, would, like, text me, like, once every, you know, two weeks or, like, barely take me to her. I'm like, oh, my God. Do you think he's just busy? It's like, no, he's just not interested.He's definitely not busy. Yeah, he could be busy, but he's also not interested.Yeah. Like, I think now I do a better job of not overthinking and just being like, they're either, like, I love. I saw something on Instagram. It's like, when a guy is into you, you know, if you're confused, it's just not it. And I really tell myself that, too. Like, it doesn't mean, especially in the beginning, like, every person has, like, a different cadence of how, like, even if, you know, sometimes I think people get so caught up in, like, oh, if you're texting every day or doing this, like, is. Are they taking you out to dinner? Are they showing interest? Are they like, you? I think that our gut is usually right and we should listen to that more because I think that that is something I wish I listened to more is like, understanding that if a guy is, like, looking, then they're looking, but if they're not, it's like, it's kind of hard to, I think in my experience, like, change their mind.I completely agree with you. And I think though, what I have started to realize, I would say in the past couple years is like, I used to look at it a lot, like, oh, I wish I would have done differently. And I actually, the only thing I would change about everything you're saying is, like, I think that guys definitely do show you immediately, like, what their kind of down to give you. And I think a lot of the times when we are not completely, like, full within ourselves and healthy and good and, like, know exactly what we want, we ignore that and we just choose to, like, kind of see what we want out of them. And I think that's normal and that's natural because that just means you're not ready for that endgame relationship yet. You still have work to do. Because if you are going for someone that is treating you like that, it's because you're working something out on your end of, like, you needed to get this certain validation and you liked this one part of them and you're completely ignoring the part where they're, like, treating you like shit. And then eventually it ends because you wake up to being like, I feel like shit.Why is this happening? And then you go to the next relationship. And then maybe if you go for something a little different, it's because you're looking for something different to fill the void of x, y, z. All of a sudden, these string of moments of dating, all these different people builds you into this healthy person because you start to just create your palate of, like, taste of, like, I like this. I definitely would never go for that because we all know it. You go on the date, and all of a sudden you're like, I remember my ex did that. I'm. Nope, I'm not interested. And you're out. But you needed to learn it in the first place to even recognize it. That's how I felt like when I met Matt, there were so many green flags. And I always say, had I met Matt when I was, like, 22, I would have probably not dated Matt because I wasn't ready for Matt. So, like, I think in a way, when you're dating, there's. There's almost like, a hopeful element I can give to all the girls listening if, like. And you of like, this is really exciting because you are, like, building this, like, repertoire of like, memory and understanding.And you're just understanding what you like, what you don't like, and you're putting up with things as shitty as it feels in the moment that you'll never put up with again unless you don't grow. And half of the battle is on you when people are like, God, this happened to me again. Did it happen to you or did you put yourself in that position again?I know I once had actually a male therapist say to me one time, he was like, I was just talking to him about dating and he was like, why do you think you're attracting these people who are treating you that way?I was like, pulling yourself out the window.Okay, you have a point. I was like, but maybe you couldn't say. You could say it a little bit nicer. But he was like, why do you, what do you think is like, wrong with you that you're attracting people like that? And I was like, that is something that, like, I'm the common denominator, so like, I have to, and also that is separate from, like, if someone's in an abusive relationship, very different. Like, very, very different. But for me, like, I just had to take a hard look at being like, I also go through phases where like, I'll go on dates and then I'm like, I need a break and I need to take dating Fatima. Yeah. I need to take some time for myself. And it's really interesting. Cause like, the times where I'm the most happy being single and on my own, I like, really try to think about, I'm only gonna date someone or let someone in my life if they just like, enhance or add to my life. And I think that really helps when I have that foundation of knowing what I want and what I'm looking for. But it is, it's, I definitely like the idea of being with someone when it's not right is just so lonely to me, and I just don't want that.It's so lonely. And I, I need to find this article. I read it so many years ago that my mom sent me. Now looking back, I'm like, I think she sent this to me when I was in my previous relationship that I was miserable. And thanks, mom. And it's a little like diagram that this person wrote. And it's an article about how like, someone that is single is one step away from a healthy relationship. Someone that is married in or in a relationship in a miserable relationship is three steps away from a healthy, happy relationship because they have to remove themselves from that relationship, then they have to get good on their own again, and then they can start to seek health and happiness with another person. But it's like, that's so exciting. And you have to be. I be so intentional about who you let into your space. But I agree, it's like, you have to get so good with yourself because that's when you really start to attract good energy. When you get out of a relationship and you fling yourself to the next, that's when you're just kind of, like, off balance, just trying to find anything that will, like, make you feel happy.But for a quick moment, it's not like you're actually stable enough to be like, hold on. What did I learn from that relationship? Let me be alone for a minute now. Let me go find something better. It's really tough, though. It can get exhausting.It is exhausting. I'm curious what you think about this, because I feel like a lot of people have different opinions on, like, when I go on a first date. Like, if I am not excited to see them again, like, if I'm even on the fence, I'm not going on a second date. I'm curious what your perspective is on that. I just think it should be easy and comfortable.Okay. I have thoughts.Okay.I was just having this conversation with a friend because she is dating right now. And she was like, I didn't go on a second date with him. And I was like, why? And she was like, I don't know. The sparks weren't there. And I was like, did they kiss? No.Sometimes you don't know until you kiss, right?I agree. I agree.Sometimes it's like, I will say that sometimes there's almost this awkwardness, and then when you kiss, you need to get.Out of the way.Yes.I kind of, like, am so down for a first kiss on a date. Condone it.Well, you know what's kind of funny is sometimes, like, I feel like it's funny. The guys who are, like, comfortable just, like, grabbing you and kissing on the first day, I found sometimes they're just, like, so smooth, know what they're doing, and maybe they're a little bit more of a player.Yes, I agree.But, like, so it's. And then sometimes the guys that are a little bit more timid. Not always, but they're just, like, trying to be, like, really sweet and respectful, and it just depends on, like, their experience. Like, if you're dating a professional athlete.Like, they grabbing the back of your neck.Yeah. Yeah.Like, three weeks later, you're like, hello?Yeah, yeah. You're like, wait, you just go to me. You just told me you wanted to date me, and then you just go to me. What is that?We're getting married. Okay.It just depends. It depends on who it is. You have to, like, know the person.Yeah.So I think it depends. Like, I do. Yeah. Whenever I. Yeah. Okay. Okay.My theory is this. What my friend said to me was she was like, well, you said that, like, you and Matt had sparks immediately on the first date. And I'm like, that is true. However, I have been in love before, and I have been in love with people before that. I didn't feel the, like, insane spark on the first date. And so I think my. My new rule that I tell my friends is, unless it was, like, so bad that you were, like, whether it was how they spoke about something that you're like, I don't like the way they spoke about, like, their family or their mom or, like, whoa, that was a red flag. If it was, like, a yemenite, it was a good date. Like, I don't know if the vibe is there, but I can't tell. Like, go on the second date because I feel like first dates, unless you are a fucking pro. And then yet again, why are you a pro at first dates? It is, like, harder than a job interview, in my opinion, because a job interview, you have your piece of paper, and you're reading your exact qualifications, and it doesn't actually matter that much on your personality.This is, like, every fucking thing of the delicate dance of your looks. Your. Are you funny? Are you charismatic? What's your personality? Do you vibe? It all has to match perfectly in 1 hour at a dinner. Like, give it a second shot. I think once the second date doesn't go well, never see them again. But if it was like a. Hmm, I don't know. I would say, try it again. And I would say, try a different vibe than the first eight. So if you did a dinner, now go do an activity. If you did an activity, now go sit down and have face to face dinner, I would say do a second date.I think it also depends on if you're dreading going on a second date. Yeah, don't.But I think check in with yourself. Check in with yourself. Because I used to do that, and it was like, am I dreading going on the second date? Does it have anything to do with him, or am I being lazy? And am I being. And when I say lazy, I'm not actually being lazy. Am I being like, I want this to be easy. I wanted to feel it immediately. I wanted the spark to be there, and I wanted to be a done deal, and I wanted to be like, boom. It's not easy because do the work in the beginning. Because then once you actually. In a relationship, like, that's also another set of just hell where you're, like, figuring out each other's trauma and boundaries and family shit. Like the first date. I don't know. I don't think. I don't think we can count people out unless there's a glaring issue.You're like, okay, let me know. I feel like a lot of people say that, but what do you think about if you're on a first date or a second date and you kiss and the kidde, you don't feel that's that. I don't use the word spark because I feel like that's, like, unrealistic, but you just.Connection.Yeah. It's not there, do you? I don't. I think if you don't have that, like, physical sexual chemistry in the beginning, I don't think you can, like, create it.I completely agree. And I think that is so disappointing.When that happens, too.It is so sad because you are, like, versus when if you went on a first date, you didn't kiss, and you go on a second date and you are, like, kind of fantasizing about it. You're, like, walking around your place. You're, like, drinking your coffee in the morning, like, picturing, like, you're almost, like, creating, like, a movie in your head of, like, what it's gonna be. And then it happens, and you're literally, like. You're like, oh, God, I'm never gonna see you again. And that was not. And then when they're into it and you're not.That's what I was gonna say, too. I sometimes feel like. Do you think that, like, we are sometimes more picky about that than men?Yes. Because I think that you also then don't know their intention completely. Are they just hoping that they're gonna sleep with you while you're like, oh, I'm actually, like, looking for a partner. So they're like, hey, ally, that was amazing. Let's go back to your place. And you're literally like, I hate you. I literally felt nothing below the belly button. Like, we gotta go home. I think that men are less picky because men are just like dogs and they're just like, oh, that was great. Meanwhile, it's like, like, no, that wasn't great. Like, what about. That was great, Daniel, like, that was bad. Leave me alone. So, no, I think you, I think you're on the right track. I also think everyone is different. But I don't know, ladies, maybe this is like the year of second dates, because then at least you're, I think then you're training yourself to. Maybe then you can just start knowing in the first date, but start pushing yourself to see if there is a shift ever on the second date. And then maybe there is. And then you're like, like, holy shit. Maybe I need to stop counting people out.Because what I said to my friend was, she was so cute. She was like, you know me, I can be a little socially awkward in the moment. And I was like, but think about this. How many times have you told me, I wish people knew me? Like, in settings with, like, all of us and our friends, when I'm the most comfortable, you wish that people would give you that, so give that to the other person.Wow. Okay.Right?Convinced me. We're going on a second date.Get your phone out, girl. We're like, I think, listen, there's, there's no harm in it. And what I can say is, if you are super anxious about the first date or second date, oh, you could do it as like a drinks or something that you have somewhere to go afterwards. So you always have an out. And then if you're vibing, be like, let me cancel my fucking dinner. Like, let's actually have dinner together. Let's go down the street. But you can always give yourself an out. Like, let's. I have like, an hour before, like, a work thing. I have to go to, like, want to meet for drinks. Like, it doesn't have to be this fucking three course sit down dinner where you're literally, like, at the appetizers and he'sOkay.I'm not sharing anything else.Was it a first date?Yeah. Not sharing anything else. I keep saying that. Yeah.I'm not sharing anything else. You're like, Alex, Alex. I'm like, did it go well? Yeah, but I'm not sharing anything. I just keep asking.You keep answering. Yeah, I did. That's all I'm saying.Did you meet on a dating app or.Nope.Nope. Should I keep asking? Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. We're moving on. This has been fabulous.I know. This is.I'm, like, having the best time. I'm like, I could keep going. I love, though, the biggest point that I love about you writing that article, too, was about calling out, like, I'm 30 now. And, like, everyone's like, what do you do? Like, you are young and you are beautiful, and you are successful. And I think it's important, especially for women. I understand we have our biological clock. Don't rush into something just because of a biological clock. Like what? Like what? And be miserable with a random person that you hate just because, like, we're 30 times up. Like. No. What are you the most excited about? Like, entering your thirties right now?Well, I feel like I'm most excited because I. I've been told for a long time that when you hit 30, you kind of care less. And so I'm, like, slowly getting there, but I think I'm just excited to, like, peel back the layers of who I am and just have more fun, focus more on my personal life. And also, I had a friend one time tell me it was at her bachelorette party, actually, and this was years ago, and she just said, you have so much to look forward to. You still have that. So for anyone who's single, this actually really helped me. You still have that first day, your first kiss, going into that talking stage and falling in love, and, like, there's still so much to look forward to. And if you're in a relationship or you're married, you still have so much to look forward to as well. Like, there's so much different, beautiful variations and chapters of life that I'm excited to keep growing and evolving and figuring out who I am, because I also think it's important to give ourselves, like, space and permission to. If you want to outgrow a friendship, you want to try something new, you want to, whatever it is, like, do what you want to do and do what makes you happy.So I'm starting to, like, care a little bit less, but I think that's beautiful. Can you tell I care too much?No, no.Too much.You're like, I don't care, alex.I'm like, I swear I don't, but I do.Like, I literally don't give a shit.Shit.I actually think when you were saying that, it just made me think of something that is kind of beautiful. When I was reading that article you wrote, it was really interesting, and you mentioned it earlier, talking about comparison, right, of Instagram. And it's like, every fucking week, you open your phone, and it's like someone got engaged or someone had a baby. And I look back at when I was single, and I talked about this recently, like, I have two different friend groups. One friend group is, like, all married and have babies, and I'm, like, the one last on the totem pole. And then my other friend group is, like, I'm ahead of the friend group in terms of, like, my relationship status or whatever the hell you want to call it. And I realize, like, we compare ourselves when we're single to the people in relationships that are getting married and all that stuff. We need to stop. Because what I can tell you all is this. Here's a secret. I am now married, and now I'm comparing myself to the moms. And what I hear from the moms is then you compare yourself in your parenting style and where your kids are at, and then you compare what your, like, what is your life balance to your kids and your career.It's like the comparison literally never stops unless you stop it. And so, yes, it feels right now, like, this big point of, like, whoa, I'm either married or I'm not. It's not just that. It's every fucking aspect of life is every fucking thing. Women are just. We keep comparing ourselves. Am I doing it as good? Am I doing it as good? And so I thought it would stop. Like, whoa, I'm. I'm about to turn 30 this summer. I just got married. And I'm like, it really doesn't matter that I got married. Like, oh, no, it does. Sorry, Matt. No, it does. It does. It does, I promise. But I bet, I mean, in terms of that, like, of course it was amazing and beautiful, but I also would have been so happy if it happened at 35. You know what I mean? Like, or 40. Like, the timeline, we need to be nicer to ourselves because the comparison game, the next step you get to, that's a whole new can of worms of comparing. So, like, don't worry.It is. It's so interesting because for women, as you mentioned before, like, we have that biological clock. And it's also, like, so unfair how inaccessible egg freezing is for women and how expensive it is. And I think it's so unfair because for the women that are able to afford it, I think for so many, it gives you sort of, like, a little bit more, a little bit longer timeline. Not a little bit, but probably a lot longer if you're able to afford it and you're able to even, like, take off the time you need for work and everything where men don't have to worry about that. So it's very different. And I think it's so messed up how expensive egg retrieval is. It's so expensive. And obviously people need it for various reasons, but I think that adds a really complicated piece to it. And I also think I. That there's also so much pressure. I was gonna put this in the article, but then I just, like, didn't. It's like a balance of not writing too much and. But there's also so many people, like, don't want to be a mom, and that's also okay.And I think a lot of people feel guilty for that. And if someone doesn't want to be a mom or a dad, they don't have to be. And I feel like people are so judgmental. And I know, you know, for some of my friends that are married, like, they must feel like everywhere they go, people are asking them, when are you having kids? And it's like. Like, it's just not everyone wants to, but it's also so much pressure. And also so many people struggle with infertility, and it's just such a personal thing that people go through, and there's just, like, so many layers to it. But I just think, like, I'm someone where I've always wanted to be a mom, and I'm excited for that, but I can't imagine, like, how frustrating it must be for people who don't want to be a mom but maybe feel like they have to be or they feel the pressure. Yeah.No, I love that you're saying that Allie. And I think this is like, it's like the trickle down effect of, like, I think a huge thing. I'm also taking from this. And I try really hard. Like, I never ask people in interviews, like, do you want kids? Because it's like we don't know anything behind the scenes. Kind of like when you said, when people ask me, why are you tired? Literally, stop. Just stop. Stop asking people. Like, I, like, oh, my God, the minute I got engaged. When are you getting married? When are you having kids? I'm like, oh, my God. Like, some of these people feel so entitled to answers that they have no business having or even asking. And I feel like we need to stop asking people, do you want kids? Or, oh, my God, when are you getting married? And, like, are you dating ally? It's like, read the room. If you have now asked Ally or one of your single friends constantly, every time you see them, imagine how annoying that is. Like, imagine how frustrating that is. Like, maybe. Wait, like, how. What's going on in your life? Like, how are you doing?Well, like, if I was in a, like, happy relationship, like, you would know. I will tell you exactly. Like, they'd be here with me. You'd know. You know, sometimes it's. Yeah, I was at a group dinner, and someone actually that I didn't know the other day was like, like, in front of everyone. And they mean well, but they're just like, so, Allie, like, what's the dating life like? And what, like, are you dating anyone now? And I'm like, after being asked ten times that day, I'm like, I just. Why is this always have to be the conversation? Like, why can't it just be? It's just all the time, like, what.Have you been up to? Like, do you have, like, anything fun you're looking forward to? What are you up to this summer? Like, I think that we. Yeah, I would just say daddy gang. Like, be more cognizant. Anytime you're asking your friends whether they're the single friends, whether they're the married friends, whatever it is, like, be mindful and read some context clues of, like, if your friend hasn't brought up kids to you, maybe it's because she doesn't want them, or maybe she's having a hard time with it. Like, being a little bit more generalized in our questioning and, like, letting them answer what they want to answer about their life and stop leading with, like, something so pointed that kind of puts them on the spot. It's like, excuse you.It's, like, shocking. I think for people. The reason why I also want to do the article was because it's like, how often do we hear someone be like, I just turned 30, and I'm feeling better than I have in a very long time. And I'm also, like, I'm okay with being single. Like, I'd rather be single and wait until I have a good match. And I also feel like, as a woman, too, I don't know if you ever struggle with this, with dating, but I felt like, as I got older, I have this. I'm like, I really hope that guys don't perceive, just because they know my age that I'm, like, desperate or, like, you know, that, like, perception of, like, I feel like, I hope they're not thinking. I'm just, like, in a rush because I don't have a timeline. I genuinely don't. And I always wonder that.I think you can. I think you can point to that by the way you speak on your dates, of, like, yeah. Like, I'm just, like, I'm. I'll be honest. I'm dating, and I'm kind of just, like, looking for people that, like, I like to spend time with. And, like, I'm not in any rush to do anything. I'm just, like, looking for, like, a good person to, like, hang out with and spend time with. And, like, I think the way that you speak about it.Yeah.Can immediately disarm that concept of, like, no, you're not desperate. You're actually, like, better than ever right now, and you're, like, working on yourself, and. And no one is gonna get to just come in and, like, be your partner. They're gonna have to be really fucking great. Okay, last question. What is something that you've learned about yourself recently that you wish you had known in your early twenties?Oh, good one. I wish that I trusted my gut more and just listened to that more and also realizing it's okay, in fact, important to be myself. And I found the more I figure out who I am, the more. The better relationships I have and the more fun that I have. So, yeah, I think trusting my gut.Allie, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. This was, like, one of my favorite conversations. I just feel like we hit so many different points. You are so smart and just, like, such a fascinating human being, and I really appreciate you opening up, because I just know this episode is going to touch so many women, and, like, you really went in so many different directions that I'm like, I have no questions left. Like, you killed it. You crushed it. Thank you for coming on like, I'm so happy we finally met, and now let's go hang out in Paris.Oh, my gosh. Wait, are you gonna be 30 in Paris?No, August, but we'll do it.Oh, that's fine. Yeah, we're gonna, like. We're gonna be, like, our third. Yeah, we're gonna have.Okay, perfect.Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. This was so wonderful.This was amazing.

big twister of a storm of all these things, and it's like, poke the bag. And they're so moody, and it's like, why are you moody? They can't tell you because they don't know how to, half the time, express their emotions. Bye.

I just wish men knew. Like, I find it so attractive when a guy is vulnerable and open. Like, if a guy, it's so. I think it's so hard to find a man who's secure enough in himself to be like, can you just sit down with me for a minute? I'm, like, having a really tough day, or I'm struggling on this. Like, I would feel so into that and so attracted to that that I wish more men knew that. And that is so attractive. And I feel I have empathy for them that they feel like they can't. They have to be so tough all the time. It's so. There's literally nothing better when you're, like, on a date and you're just, like, vibing and you're just, like, social.

Yeah.

Connecting about stuff. And it's just. It's really nice to have that connection where you both don't feel judged. You both can go to each other. And I think that that is hard to find. Like, I think relationships, it should be. They should be hard to find because I think that's what makes, like, finding the right person, you know, more special.

In your twenties, what partners were you pursuing? Like, describe?

Oh, I used to. I used to really go for the athletes, the professional athletes, and it's really hard to find a really good one. There have been few very sweet ones, and I'm grateful for that. But, yeah, it's, um. It was, it's hard. It's hard to find a good one.

I just think that give me some qualities.

Yeah, I definitely wasn't treated the way I think that girls deserve to be treated, I think. Yeah, I think that was definitely my type. But I also will say what's interesting is, like, for years, people were like, you gotta stop dating the athletes. I was like, all right, I'll date. Like, I'll go on a date with anyone. And I've been, like, so open. I literally would, like, if someone set me up with someone, like, I don't need to see a picture. Like, I'll just go on a date. And I go on these dates and I'm like, okay, maybe I should be like. It's like, finding that I was trying to, like, find the right balance of, like, trying to be more open, because I also think it's, like, crazy when we meet someone, you feel a vibe and, like, you know, you think about, like, maybe if someone showed you a photo of them, you wouldn't have maybe said yes. So I try to be, like, very open minded, but, like, even dating guys who are not professional athletes and, like, not in the public eye, like, some of them are not great either. So it just really just depends.

I think that there's always, like, good guys and same thing with. I'm sure guys will say the same thing. There are some girls who they are women they've dated that are wonderful, and others, like, we all have had probably good and bad experiences. But I think that what I've also learned, I'm curious what you think about this is, like, I used to take it so personally when I was younger. Like, if I dated an athlete, they were probably texting 30 people the same time. Like, if they're not looking for something, there's just most of the time, there's no chance, like, they're not interested, and it's not. I wish I knew, like, dating wasn't personal because I used to take it very personal when I was younger, and now I'm realizing, like, at least for me, I feel like guys show pretty quickly, like, what they're looking for and what they're interested in. Like, I'd have a guy, like, years ago who, like, you know, would, like, text me, like, once every, you know, two weeks or, like, barely take me to her. I'm like, oh, my God. Do you think he's just busy? It's like, no, he's just not interested.

He's definitely not busy. Yeah, he could be busy, but he's also not interested.

Yeah. Like, I think now I do a better job of not overthinking and just being like, they're either, like, I love. I saw something on Instagram. It's like, when a guy is into you, you know, if you're confused, it's just not it. And I really tell myself that, too. Like, it doesn't mean, especially in the beginning, like, every person has, like, a different cadence of how, like, even if, you know, sometimes I think people get so caught up in, like, oh, if you're texting every day or doing this, like, is. Are they taking you out to dinner? Are they showing interest? Are they like, you? I think that our gut is usually right and we should listen to that more because I think that that is something I wish I listened to more is like, understanding that if a guy is, like, looking, then they're looking, but if they're not, it's like, it's kind of hard to, I think in my experience, like, change their mind.

I completely agree with you. And I think though, what I have started to realize, I would say in the past couple years is like, I used to look at it a lot, like, oh, I wish I would have done differently. And I actually, the only thing I would change about everything you're saying is, like, I think that guys definitely do show you immediately, like, what their kind of down to give you. And I think a lot of the times when we are not completely, like, full within ourselves and healthy and good and, like, know exactly what we want, we ignore that and we just choose to, like, kind of see what we want out of them. And I think that's normal and that's natural because that just means you're not ready for that endgame relationship yet. You still have work to do. Because if you are going for someone that is treating you like that, it's because you're working something out on your end of, like, you needed to get this certain validation and you liked this one part of them and you're completely ignoring the part where they're, like, treating you like shit. And then eventually it ends because you wake up to being like, I feel like shit.

Why is this happening? And then you go to the next relationship. And then maybe if you go for something a little different, it's because you're looking for something different to fill the void of x, y, z. All of a sudden, these string of moments of dating, all these different people builds you into this healthy person because you start to just create your palate of, like, taste of, like, I like this. I definitely would never go for that because we all know it. You go on the date, and all of a sudden you're like, I remember my ex did that. I'm. Nope, I'm not interested. And you're out. But you needed to learn it in the first place to even recognize it. That's how I felt like when I met Matt, there were so many green flags. And I always say, had I met Matt when I was, like, 22, I would have probably not dated Matt because I wasn't ready for Matt. So, like, I think in a way, when you're dating, there's. There's almost like, a hopeful element I can give to all the girls listening if, like. And you of like, this is really exciting because you are, like, building this, like, repertoire of like, memory and understanding.

And you're just understanding what you like, what you don't like, and you're putting up with things as shitty as it feels in the moment that you'll never put up with again unless you don't grow. And half of the battle is on you when people are like, God, this happened to me again. Did it happen to you or did you put yourself in that position again?

I know I once had actually a male therapist say to me one time, he was like, I was just talking to him about dating and he was like, why do you think you're attracting these people who are treating you that way?

I was like, pulling yourself out the window.

Okay, you have a point. I was like, but maybe you couldn't say. You could say it a little bit nicer. But he was like, why do you, what do you think is like, wrong with you that you're attracting people like that? And I was like, that is something that, like, I'm the common denominator, so like, I have to, and also that is separate from, like, if someone's in an abusive relationship, very different. Like, very, very different. But for me, like, I just had to take a hard look at being like, I also go through phases where like, I'll go on dates and then I'm like, I need a break and I need to take dating Fatima. Yeah. I need to take some time for myself. And it's really interesting. Cause like, the times where I'm the most happy being single and on my own, I like, really try to think about, I'm only gonna date someone or let someone in my life if they just like, enhance or add to my life. And I think that really helps when I have that foundation of knowing what I want and what I'm looking for. But it is, it's, I definitely like the idea of being with someone when it's not right is just so lonely to me, and I just don't want that.

It's so lonely. And I, I need to find this article. I read it so many years ago that my mom sent me. Now looking back, I'm like, I think she sent this to me when I was in my previous relationship that I was miserable. And thanks, mom. And it's a little like diagram that this person wrote. And it's an article about how like, someone that is single is one step away from a healthy relationship. Someone that is married in or in a relationship in a miserable relationship is three steps away from a healthy, happy relationship because they have to remove themselves from that relationship, then they have to get good on their own again, and then they can start to seek health and happiness with another person. But it's like, that's so exciting. And you have to be. I be so intentional about who you let into your space. But I agree, it's like, you have to get so good with yourself because that's when you really start to attract good energy. When you get out of a relationship and you fling yourself to the next, that's when you're just kind of, like, off balance, just trying to find anything that will, like, make you feel happy.

But for a quick moment, it's not like you're actually stable enough to be like, hold on. What did I learn from that relationship? Let me be alone for a minute now. Let me go find something better. It's really tough, though. It can get exhausting.

It is exhausting. I'm curious what you think about this, because I feel like a lot of people have different opinions on, like, when I go on a first date. Like, if I am not excited to see them again, like, if I'm even on the fence, I'm not going on a second date. I'm curious what your perspective is on that. I just think it should be easy and comfortable.

Okay. I have thoughts.

Okay.

I was just having this conversation with a friend because she is dating right now. And she was like, I didn't go on a second date with him. And I was like, why? And she was like, I don't know. The sparks weren't there. And I was like, did they kiss? No.

Sometimes you don't know until you kiss, right?

I agree. I agree.

Sometimes it's like, I will say that sometimes there's almost this awkwardness, and then when you kiss, you need to get.

Out of the way.

Yes.

I kind of, like, am so down for a first kiss on a date. Condone it.

Well, you know what's kind of funny is sometimes, like, I feel like it's funny. The guys who are, like, comfortable just, like, grabbing you and kissing on the first day, I found sometimes they're just, like, so smooth, know what they're doing, and maybe they're a little bit more of a player.

Yes, I agree.

But, like, so it's. And then sometimes the guys that are a little bit more timid. Not always, but they're just, like, trying to be, like, really sweet and respectful, and it just depends on, like, their experience. Like, if you're dating a professional athlete.

Like, they grabbing the back of your neck.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, three weeks later, you're like, hello?

Yeah, yeah. You're like, wait, you just go to me. You just told me you wanted to date me, and then you just go to me. What is that?

We're getting married. Okay.

It just depends. It depends on who it is. You have to, like, know the person.

Yeah.

So I think it depends. Like, I do. Yeah. Whenever I. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

My theory is this. What my friend said to me was she was like, well, you said that, like, you and Matt had sparks immediately on the first date. And I'm like, that is true. However, I have been in love before, and I have been in love with people before that. I didn't feel the, like, insane spark on the first date. And so I think my. My new rule that I tell my friends is, unless it was, like, so bad that you were, like, whether it was how they spoke about something that you're like, I don't like the way they spoke about, like, their family or their mom or, like, whoa, that was a red flag. If it was, like, a yemenite, it was a good date. Like, I don't know if the vibe is there, but I can't tell. Like, go on the second date because I feel like first dates, unless you are a fucking pro. And then yet again, why are you a pro at first dates? It is, like, harder than a job interview, in my opinion, because a job interview, you have your piece of paper, and you're reading your exact qualifications, and it doesn't actually matter that much on your personality.

This is, like, every fucking thing of the delicate dance of your looks. Your. Are you funny? Are you charismatic? What's your personality? Do you vibe? It all has to match perfectly in 1 hour at a dinner. Like, give it a second shot. I think once the second date doesn't go well, never see them again. But if it was like a. Hmm, I don't know. I would say, try it again. And I would say, try a different vibe than the first eight. So if you did a dinner, now go do an activity. If you did an activity, now go sit down and have face to face dinner, I would say do a second date.

I think it also depends on if you're dreading going on a second date. Yeah, don't.

But I think check in with yourself. Check in with yourself. Because I used to do that, and it was like, am I dreading going on the second date? Does it have anything to do with him, or am I being lazy? And am I being. And when I say lazy, I'm not actually being lazy. Am I being like, I want this to be easy. I wanted to feel it immediately. I wanted the spark to be there, and I wanted to be a done deal, and I wanted to be like, boom. It's not easy because do the work in the beginning. Because then once you actually. In a relationship, like, that's also another set of just hell where you're, like, figuring out each other's trauma and boundaries and family shit. Like the first date. I don't know. I don't think. I don't think we can count people out unless there's a glaring issue.

You're like, okay, let me know. I feel like a lot of people say that, but what do you think about if you're on a first date or a second date and you kiss and the kidde, you don't feel that's that. I don't use the word spark because I feel like that's, like, unrealistic, but you just.

Connection.

Yeah. It's not there, do you? I don't. I think if you don't have that, like, physical sexual chemistry in the beginning, I don't think you can, like, create it.

I completely agree. And I think that is so disappointing.

When that happens, too.

It is so sad because you are, like, versus when if you went on a first date, you didn't kiss, and you go on a second date and you are, like, kind of fantasizing about it. You're, like, walking around your place. You're, like, drinking your coffee in the morning, like, picturing, like, you're almost, like, creating, like, a movie in your head of, like, what it's gonna be. And then it happens, and you're literally, like. You're like, oh, God, I'm never gonna see you again. And that was not. And then when they're into it and you're not.

That's what I was gonna say, too. I sometimes feel like. Do you think that, like, we are sometimes more picky about that than men?

Yes. Because I think that you also then don't know their intention completely. Are they just hoping that they're gonna sleep with you while you're like, oh, I'm actually, like, looking for a partner. So they're like, hey, ally, that was amazing. Let's go back to your place. And you're literally like, I hate you. I literally felt nothing below the belly button. Like, we gotta go home. I think that men are less picky because men are just like dogs and they're just like, oh, that was great. Meanwhile, it's like, like, no, that wasn't great. Like, what about. That was great, Daniel, like, that was bad. Leave me alone. So, no, I think you, I think you're on the right track. I also think everyone is different. But I don't know, ladies, maybe this is like the year of second dates, because then at least you're, I think then you're training yourself to. Maybe then you can just start knowing in the first date, but start pushing yourself to see if there is a shift ever on the second date. And then maybe there is. And then you're like, like, holy shit. Maybe I need to stop counting people out.

Because what I said to my friend was, she was so cute. She was like, you know me, I can be a little socially awkward in the moment. And I was like, but think about this. How many times have you told me, I wish people knew me? Like, in settings with, like, all of us and our friends, when I'm the most comfortable, you wish that people would give you that, so give that to the other person.

Wow. Okay.

Right?

Convinced me. We're going on a second date.

Get your phone out, girl. We're like, I think, listen, there's, there's no harm in it. And what I can say is, if you are super anxious about the first date or second date, oh, you could do it as like a drinks or something that you have somewhere to go afterwards. So you always have an out. And then if you're vibing, be like, let me cancel my fucking dinner. Like, let's actually have dinner together. Let's go down the street. But you can always give yourself an out. Like, let's. I have like, an hour before, like, a work thing. I have to go to, like, want to meet for drinks. Like, it doesn't have to be this fucking three course sit down dinner where you're literally, like, at the appetizers and he'sOkay.I'm not sharing anything else.Was it a first date?Yeah. Not sharing anything else. I keep saying that. Yeah.I'm not sharing anything else. You're like, Alex, Alex. I'm like, did it go well? Yeah, but I'm not sharing anything. I just keep asking.You keep answering. Yeah, I did. That's all I'm saying.Did you meet on a dating app or.Nope.Nope. Should I keep asking? Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. We're moving on. This has been fabulous.I know. This is.I'm, like, having the best time. I'm like, I could keep going. I love, though, the biggest point that I love about you writing that article, too, was about calling out, like, I'm 30 now. And, like, everyone's like, what do you do? Like, you are young and you are beautiful, and you are successful. And I think it's important, especially for women. I understand we have our biological clock. Don't rush into something just because of a biological clock. Like what? Like what? And be miserable with a random person that you hate just because, like, we're 30 times up. Like. No. What are you the most excited about? Like, entering your thirties right now?Well, I feel like I'm most excited because I. I've been told for a long time that when you hit 30, you kind of care less. And so I'm, like, slowly getting there, but I think I'm just excited to, like, peel back the layers of who I am and just have more fun, focus more on my personal life. And also, I had a friend one time tell me it was at her bachelorette party, actually, and this was years ago, and she just said, you have so much to look forward to. You still have that. So for anyone who's single, this actually really helped me. You still have that first day, your first kiss, going into that talking stage and falling in love, and, like, there's still so much to look forward to. And if you're in a relationship or you're married, you still have so much to look forward to as well. Like, there's so much different, beautiful variations and chapters of life that I'm excited to keep growing and evolving and figuring out who I am, because I also think it's important to give ourselves, like, space and permission to. If you want to outgrow a friendship, you want to try something new, you want to, whatever it is, like, do what you want to do and do what makes you happy.So I'm starting to, like, care a little bit less, but I think that's beautiful. Can you tell I care too much?No, no.Too much.You're like, I don't care, alex.I'm like, I swear I don't, but I do.Like, I literally don't give a shit.Shit.I actually think when you were saying that, it just made me think of something that is kind of beautiful. When I was reading that article you wrote, it was really interesting, and you mentioned it earlier, talking about comparison, right, of Instagram. And it's like, every fucking week, you open your phone, and it's like someone got engaged or someone had a baby. And I look back at when I was single, and I talked about this recently, like, I have two different friend groups. One friend group is, like, all married and have babies, and I'm, like, the one last on the totem pole. And then my other friend group is, like, I'm ahead of the friend group in terms of, like, my relationship status or whatever the hell you want to call it. And I realize, like, we compare ourselves when we're single to the people in relationships that are getting married and all that stuff. We need to stop. Because what I can tell you all is this. Here's a secret. I am now married, and now I'm comparing myself to the moms. And what I hear from the moms is then you compare yourself in your parenting style and where your kids are at, and then you compare what your, like, what is your life balance to your kids and your career.It's like the comparison literally never stops unless you stop it. And so, yes, it feels right now, like, this big point of, like, whoa, I'm either married or I'm not. It's not just that. It's every fucking aspect of life is every fucking thing. Women are just. We keep comparing ourselves. Am I doing it as good? Am I doing it as good? And so I thought it would stop. Like, whoa, I'm. I'm about to turn 30 this summer. I just got married. And I'm like, it really doesn't matter that I got married. Like, oh, no, it does. Sorry, Matt. No, it does. It does. It does, I promise. But I bet, I mean, in terms of that, like, of course it was amazing and beautiful, but I also would have been so happy if it happened at 35. You know what I mean? Like, or 40. Like, the timeline, we need to be nicer to ourselves because the comparison game, the next step you get to, that's a whole new can of worms of comparing. So, like, don't worry.It is. It's so interesting because for women, as you mentioned before, like, we have that biological clock. And it's also, like, so unfair how inaccessible egg freezing is for women and how expensive it is. And I think it's so unfair because for the women that are able to afford it, I think for so many, it gives you sort of, like, a little bit more, a little bit longer timeline. Not a little bit, but probably a lot longer if you're able to afford it and you're able to even, like, take off the time you need for work and everything where men don't have to worry about that. So it's very different. And I think it's so messed up how expensive egg retrieval is. It's so expensive. And obviously people need it for various reasons, but I think that adds a really complicated piece to it. And I also think I. That there's also so much pressure. I was gonna put this in the article, but then I just, like, didn't. It's like a balance of not writing too much and. But there's also so many people, like, don't want to be a mom, and that's also okay.And I think a lot of people feel guilty for that. And if someone doesn't want to be a mom or a dad, they don't have to be. And I feel like people are so judgmental. And I know, you know, for some of my friends that are married, like, they must feel like everywhere they go, people are asking them, when are you having kids? And it's like. Like, it's just not everyone wants to, but it's also so much pressure. And also so many people struggle with infertility, and it's just such a personal thing that people go through, and there's just, like, so many layers to it. But I just think, like, I'm someone where I've always wanted to be a mom, and I'm excited for that, but I can't imagine, like, how frustrating it must be for people who don't want to be a mom but maybe feel like they have to be or they feel the pressure. Yeah.No, I love that you're saying that Allie. And I think this is like, it's like the trickle down effect of, like, I think a huge thing. I'm also taking from this. And I try really hard. Like, I never ask people in interviews, like, do you want kids? Because it's like we don't know anything behind the scenes. Kind of like when you said, when people ask me, why are you tired? Literally, stop. Just stop. Stop asking people. Like, I, like, oh, my God, the minute I got engaged. When are you getting married? When are you having kids? I'm like, oh, my God. Like, some of these people feel so entitled to answers that they have no business having or even asking. And I feel like we need to stop asking people, do you want kids? Or, oh, my God, when are you getting married? And, like, are you dating ally? It's like, read the room. If you have now asked Ally or one of your single friends constantly, every time you see them, imagine how annoying that is. Like, imagine how frustrating that is. Like, maybe. Wait, like, how. What's going on in your life? Like, how are you doing?Well, like, if I was in a, like, happy relationship, like, you would know. I will tell you exactly. Like, they'd be here with me. You'd know. You know, sometimes it's. Yeah, I was at a group dinner, and someone actually that I didn't know the other day was like, like, in front of everyone. And they mean well, but they're just like, so, Allie, like, what's the dating life like? And what, like, are you dating anyone now? And I'm like, after being asked ten times that day, I'm like, I just. Why is this always have to be the conversation? Like, why can't it just be? It's just all the time, like, what.Have you been up to? Like, do you have, like, anything fun you're looking forward to? What are you up to this summer? Like, I think that we. Yeah, I would just say daddy gang. Like, be more cognizant. Anytime you're asking your friends whether they're the single friends, whether they're the married friends, whatever it is, like, be mindful and read some context clues of, like, if your friend hasn't brought up kids to you, maybe it's because she doesn't want them, or maybe she's having a hard time with it. Like, being a little bit more generalized in our questioning and, like, letting them answer what they want to answer about their life and stop leading with, like, something so pointed that kind of puts them on the spot. It's like, excuse you.It's, like, shocking. I think for people. The reason why I also want to do the article was because it's like, how often do we hear someone be like, I just turned 30, and I'm feeling better than I have in a very long time. And I'm also, like, I'm okay with being single. Like, I'd rather be single and wait until I have a good match. And I also feel like, as a woman, too, I don't know if you ever struggle with this, with dating, but I felt like, as I got older, I have this. I'm like, I really hope that guys don't perceive, just because they know my age that I'm, like, desperate or, like, you know, that, like, perception of, like, I feel like, I hope they're not thinking. I'm just, like, in a rush because I don't have a timeline. I genuinely don't. And I always wonder that.I think you can. I think you can point to that by the way you speak on your dates, of, like, yeah. Like, I'm just, like, I'm. I'll be honest. I'm dating, and I'm kind of just, like, looking for people that, like, I like to spend time with. And, like, I'm not in any rush to do anything. I'm just, like, looking for, like, a good person to, like, hang out with and spend time with. And, like, I think the way that you speak about it.Yeah.Can immediately disarm that concept of, like, no, you're not desperate. You're actually, like, better than ever right now, and you're, like, working on yourself, and. And no one is gonna get to just come in and, like, be your partner. They're gonna have to be really fucking great. Okay, last question. What is something that you've learned about yourself recently that you wish you had known in your early twenties?Oh, good one. I wish that I trusted my gut more and just listened to that more and also realizing it's okay, in fact, important to be myself. And I found the more I figure out who I am, the more. The better relationships I have and the more fun that I have. So, yeah, I think trusting my gut.Allie, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. This was, like, one of my favorite conversations. I just feel like we hit so many different points. You are so smart and just, like, such a fascinating human being, and I really appreciate you opening up, because I just know this episode is going to touch so many women, and, like, you really went in so many different directions that I'm like, I have no questions left. Like, you killed it. You crushed it. Thank you for coming on like, I'm so happy we finally met, and now let's go hang out in Paris.Oh, my gosh. Wait, are you gonna be 30 in Paris?No, August, but we'll do it.Oh, that's fine. Yeah, we're gonna, like. We're gonna be, like, our third. Yeah, we're gonna have.Okay, perfect.Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. This was so wonderful.This was amazing.

Okay.

I'm not sharing anything else.

Was it a first date?

Yeah. Not sharing anything else. I keep saying that. Yeah.

I'm not sharing anything else. You're like, Alex, Alex. I'm like, did it go well? Yeah, but I'm not sharing anything. I just keep asking.

You keep answering. Yeah, I did. That's all I'm saying.

Did you meet on a dating app or.

Nope.

Nope. Should I keep asking? Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. We're moving on. This has been fabulous.

I know. This is.

I'm, like, having the best time. I'm like, I could keep going. I love, though, the biggest point that I love about you writing that article, too, was about calling out, like, I'm 30 now. And, like, everyone's like, what do you do? Like, you are young and you are beautiful, and you are successful. And I think it's important, especially for women. I understand we have our biological clock. Don't rush into something just because of a biological clock. Like what? Like what? And be miserable with a random person that you hate just because, like, we're 30 times up. Like. No. What are you the most excited about? Like, entering your thirties right now?

Well, I feel like I'm most excited because I. I've been told for a long time that when you hit 30, you kind of care less. And so I'm, like, slowly getting there, but I think I'm just excited to, like, peel back the layers of who I am and just have more fun, focus more on my personal life. And also, I had a friend one time tell me it was at her bachelorette party, actually, and this was years ago, and she just said, you have so much to look forward to. You still have that. So for anyone who's single, this actually really helped me. You still have that first day, your first kiss, going into that talking stage and falling in love, and, like, there's still so much to look forward to. And if you're in a relationship or you're married, you still have so much to look forward to as well. Like, there's so much different, beautiful variations and chapters of life that I'm excited to keep growing and evolving and figuring out who I am, because I also think it's important to give ourselves, like, space and permission to. If you want to outgrow a friendship, you want to try something new, you want to, whatever it is, like, do what you want to do and do what makes you happy.

So I'm starting to, like, care a little bit less, but I think that's beautiful. Can you tell I care too much?

No, no.

Too much.

You're like, I don't care, alex.

I'm like, I swear I don't, but I do.

Like, I literally don't give a shit.

Shit.

I actually think when you were saying that, it just made me think of something that is kind of beautiful. When I was reading that article you wrote, it was really interesting, and you mentioned it earlier, talking about comparison, right, of Instagram. And it's like, every fucking week, you open your phone, and it's like someone got engaged or someone had a baby. And I look back at when I was single, and I talked about this recently, like, I have two different friend groups. One friend group is, like, all married and have babies, and I'm, like, the one last on the totem pole. And then my other friend group is, like, I'm ahead of the friend group in terms of, like, my relationship status or whatever the hell you want to call it. And I realize, like, we compare ourselves when we're single to the people in relationships that are getting married and all that stuff. We need to stop. Because what I can tell you all is this. Here's a secret. I am now married, and now I'm comparing myself to the moms. And what I hear from the moms is then you compare yourself in your parenting style and where your kids are at, and then you compare what your, like, what is your life balance to your kids and your career.

It's like the comparison literally never stops unless you stop it. And so, yes, it feels right now, like, this big point of, like, whoa, I'm either married or I'm not. It's not just that. It's every fucking aspect of life is every fucking thing. Women are just. We keep comparing ourselves. Am I doing it as good? Am I doing it as good? And so I thought it would stop. Like, whoa, I'm. I'm about to turn 30 this summer. I just got married. And I'm like, it really doesn't matter that I got married. Like, oh, no, it does. Sorry, Matt. No, it does. It does. It does, I promise. But I bet, I mean, in terms of that, like, of course it was amazing and beautiful, but I also would have been so happy if it happened at 35. You know what I mean? Like, or 40. Like, the timeline, we need to be nicer to ourselves because the comparison game, the next step you get to, that's a whole new can of worms of comparing. So, like, don't worry.

It is. It's so interesting because for women, as you mentioned before, like, we have that biological clock. And it's also, like, so unfair how inaccessible egg freezing is for women and how expensive it is. And I think it's so unfair because for the women that are able to afford it, I think for so many, it gives you sort of, like, a little bit more, a little bit longer timeline. Not a little bit, but probably a lot longer if you're able to afford it and you're able to even, like, take off the time you need for work and everything where men don't have to worry about that. So it's very different. And I think it's so messed up how expensive egg retrieval is. It's so expensive. And obviously people need it for various reasons, but I think that adds a really complicated piece to it. And I also think I. That there's also so much pressure. I was gonna put this in the article, but then I just, like, didn't. It's like a balance of not writing too much and. But there's also so many people, like, don't want to be a mom, and that's also okay.

And I think a lot of people feel guilty for that. And if someone doesn't want to be a mom or a dad, they don't have to be. And I feel like people are so judgmental. And I know, you know, for some of my friends that are married, like, they must feel like everywhere they go, people are asking them, when are you having kids? And it's like. Like, it's just not everyone wants to, but it's also so much pressure. And also so many people struggle with infertility, and it's just such a personal thing that people go through, and there's just, like, so many layers to it. But I just think, like, I'm someone where I've always wanted to be a mom, and I'm excited for that, but I can't imagine, like, how frustrating it must be for people who don't want to be a mom but maybe feel like they have to be or they feel the pressure. Yeah.

No, I love that you're saying that Allie. And I think this is like, it's like the trickle down effect of, like, I think a huge thing. I'm also taking from this. And I try really hard. Like, I never ask people in interviews, like, do you want kids? Because it's like we don't know anything behind the scenes. Kind of like when you said, when people ask me, why are you tired? Literally, stop. Just stop. Stop asking people. Like, I, like, oh, my God, the minute I got engaged. When are you getting married? When are you having kids? I'm like, oh, my God. Like, some of these people feel so entitled to answers that they have no business having or even asking. And I feel like we need to stop asking people, do you want kids? Or, oh, my God, when are you getting married? And, like, are you dating ally? It's like, read the room. If you have now asked Ally or one of your single friends constantly, every time you see them, imagine how annoying that is. Like, imagine how frustrating that is. Like, maybe. Wait, like, how. What's going on in your life? Like, how are you doing?

Well, like, if I was in a, like, happy relationship, like, you would know. I will tell you exactly. Like, they'd be here with me. You'd know. You know, sometimes it's. Yeah, I was at a group dinner, and someone actually that I didn't know the other day was like, like, in front of everyone. And they mean well, but they're just like, so, Allie, like, what's the dating life like? And what, like, are you dating anyone now? And I'm like, after being asked ten times that day, I'm like, I just. Why is this always have to be the conversation? Like, why can't it just be? It's just all the time, like, what.

Have you been up to? Like, do you have, like, anything fun you're looking forward to? What are you up to this summer? Like, I think that we. Yeah, I would just say daddy gang. Like, be more cognizant. Anytime you're asking your friends whether they're the single friends, whether they're the married friends, whatever it is, like, be mindful and read some context clues of, like, if your friend hasn't brought up kids to you, maybe it's because she doesn't want them, or maybe she's having a hard time with it. Like, being a little bit more generalized in our questioning and, like, letting them answer what they want to answer about their life and stop leading with, like, something so pointed that kind of puts them on the spot. It's like, excuse you.

It's, like, shocking. I think for people. The reason why I also want to do the article was because it's like, how often do we hear someone be like, I just turned 30, and I'm feeling better than I have in a very long time. And I'm also, like, I'm okay with being single. Like, I'd rather be single and wait until I have a good match. And I also feel like, as a woman, too, I don't know if you ever struggle with this, with dating, but I felt like, as I got older, I have this. I'm like, I really hope that guys don't perceive, just because they know my age that I'm, like, desperate or, like, you know, that, like, perception of, like, I feel like, I hope they're not thinking. I'm just, like, in a rush because I don't have a timeline. I genuinely don't. And I always wonder that.

I think you can. I think you can point to that by the way you speak on your dates, of, like, yeah. Like, I'm just, like, I'm. I'll be honest. I'm dating, and I'm kind of just, like, looking for people that, like, I like to spend time with. And, like, I'm not in any rush to do anything. I'm just, like, looking for, like, a good person to, like, hang out with and spend time with. And, like, I think the way that you speak about it.

Yeah.

Can immediately disarm that concept of, like, no, you're not desperate. You're actually, like, better than ever right now, and you're, like, working on yourself, and. And no one is gonna get to just come in and, like, be your partner. They're gonna have to be really fucking great. Okay, last question. What is something that you've learned about yourself recently that you wish you had known in your early twenties?

Oh, good one. I wish that I trusted my gut more and just listened to that more and also realizing it's okay, in fact, important to be myself. And I found the more I figure out who I am, the more. The better relationships I have and the more fun that I have. So, yeah, I think trusting my gut.

Allie, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. This was, like, one of my favorite conversations. I just feel like we hit so many different points. You are so smart and just, like, such a fascinating human being, and I really appreciate you opening up, because I just know this episode is going to touch so many women, and, like, you really went in so many different directions that I'm like, I have no questions left. Like, you killed it. You crushed it. Thank you for coming on like, I'm so happy we finally met, and now let's go hang out in Paris.

Oh, my gosh. Wait, are you gonna be 30 in Paris?

No, August, but we'll do it.

Oh, that's fine. Yeah, we're gonna, like. We're gonna be, like, our third. Yeah, we're gonna have.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. This was so wonderful.

This was amazing.