What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with call her daddy, daddy. Chris Olsen. Welcome to call her daddy.

Thank you.

I am so happy to have you here right now. I'm like, we have so much to go over before we really, really get into it. First of all, for anyone of the daddy gang that's about to be a new fan today, I'm going to give you the floor. Introduce yourself. Where you're from, where you live, what you do for a living, anything fun about yourself, give us a fun fact. Just give it to us.

God.

No pressure. The definition has changed over the past three weeks, but we're trying to make it better. My name is Krist Olsen. Should I direct it to camera? Hello, my name is Chris Olsen. I am originally from Chevy Chase, Maryland, the DC area, we call it the DMV. And I moved to LA. Oh, I went to. I was like, always a theater kid growing up. I'm a theater kid growing up. I went to boarding school for high school for theater. Like an art sporting school.

Oh, so you did it.

And then I got my bfa in musical theater in college for Berkeley, College of Music.

Like, theater kid through and through hardcore.

It's insanity. But junior year of my college was when Covid hit so downloaded TikTok was in a relationship, started making some videos two months in, went from like a few followers to 2.2 million in like two weeks and was like, okay, this is a fun thing that's happening. But I wasn't like, career is new now, and I still had a year left of school, but I finished senior year of musical theater school online on Zoom. We moved to LA and then have been doing social media ever since. Went through a little public breakup, went through a little public breakdown, have been doing all of all things public recently.

Your videos are amazing.

Thank you.

I think my favorite ones are, obviously, when you're like, where should I go? And you just casually get on a plane and you take us through your entire life and day. I can't imagine what goes into those videos. You make them look so effortless and chill. Meanwhile, as a creator myself, I'm like, God bless you. We bow down. You're doing the Lord's work over there.

Thank you.

Good work. We have to talk about the apartment drama. So for context, everyone, I have been a fan of yours. And I remember, I think it was like a year and it was about a year ago. A year ago. I start getting so many tags on TikTok and everyone is like, oh, my God, Chris Olsen is living in your old apartment. He's definitely living there. He's. And I'm like, what is happening? So I go and I shut the fuck up. Who is this bitch? Who? I see it and I'm like, oh, my God. I don't know if it's the exact unit.

It isn't.

It isn't.

I know it's not. I did lie to the Internet. I've done it once or twice, but I knew it was the same building. You lived across the hall. I know the unit because it was.

Like, on two, two and three. I had two and three.

Yeah.

Yeah, you were right.

2G.

You can say it. I don't live there anymore.

Jesus.

I'm like.

Like someone's gonna show up and look for clues.

I think I was. I lived across from a psychopath because.

Those windows are, like, kind of unmistakable. The windows and the location of it, too. I think people just knew.

Are the doormen still there that, like, I don't know if you have. Do you love your doormen?

Yes.

They're the sweetest men ever.

And most of them have been there for, like, 20 years. Okay.

So, yes, I remember when I was moving out, and I, like, almost had a cry session with one of them, and I was like, this is when, you know, you loved your building so much. Cause I was like, I have to go. I gotta go my own way. What about us?

What about everything we've been through?

What about you? Okay, we're here today. Look at me. Just, like, shifting the tone. I'm like.

And so now trauma.

No. And now let's talk about trauma. Yeah. When I reached out to you, obviously, I had been. I was actually in Paris at the Olympics, and I was sitting in my green room waiting to go onto my show, and I came across one of the videos you had made, basically begging people to stop. And I was with my friend, and I was, like, tearing up, crying, basically being like, oh, my fucking God. I could tell how much pain you were in. And I think the reason I really want to have you on today is because, unfortunately, a lot of the things that you have gone through in your life, a lot of the people listening and watching this episode will potentially have gone through also.

Yeah, 100%.

So let's just get into it.

Yeah.

Private photos and videos of you were leaked online, non consensual, and the Internet was essentially harassing you about these videos and these photos. So first, before we get into, like, how this happened and everything, like, how are you doing without this private photos and videos of you were leaked online, non consensual, and the Internet was essentially harassing you about these videos and these photos. So first, before we get into, like, how this happened and everything, like, how are you doing without this now?

Better, because I've removed myself off of most of the Internet for now. Okay. And, like, trying to focus on what real life is. It's so easy to make that so real life and make that everything I remember there's, like, there's a viral, like, tyler, the creator tweet that was like, how is cyberbullying real? Just turn off your phone. And I remember being like, tyler, I can't. I don't know how. And, Tyler, this is my job, but I think I'm actually implementing that in a little bit of a way this past month ish. I also have never cried more in my life. I cry every day, but I don't even really say that in a bad way. Sometimes I'm crying because I'm so grateful, and sometimes I'm crying because I just want to hug my childhood self. And sometimes I'm crying because I don't know why I'm crying. Sometimes I'm just fucking crying. And, like. And that's okay. And that's okay. And, like, I. I think people will.

Probably be like, bitch, we see you.

Cry all the time on the Internet. What are you talking about? But, like, a lot of the time when I'm crying on the Internet, it's like, I've been listening to Taylor Swift music. It's like, there's, like, a sad moment going on. I'm not one of those people who, like, if I'm going through trauma, I'm gonna be like, oh, my God. But I just did that, like, last month.

But.

But to be fair, yeah, you were going on essentially asking people to stop and to give you grace and to understand, like, you are a human being. And this isn't a game. This isn't like, oh, my God. All these things are getting leaked of me in, like, a very traumatic past event that happened. That's bringing up a lot for me. And, like, now you guys are, like, using it as, like, clickbait and, like, to get views, like, please fucking stop. Because this is actually how people hurt themselves.

Let's keep it real.

And I had kind of entered, like, a clap back era for a month before then. I was trying to, like, be all, like, bitchy and, like, I'm the one in this position, and you're not. But that's, like, also not me. Like, I would love for that. To be me. And occasionally I can, like, play that character, but the real me feels like the loser in middle school that everyone is now pointing and laughing at. And now it's like, maybe I just lost my virginity and everyone is hearing about it, or there was a photo of it, and everyone's now using that against me. And all I feel like is my 13 year old self again, who just wants to hide and be hugged and be with my family. And, like, my family from. My family has changed so much from when I was 13 to, like, when I was 13, we. I had a perfect family unit. Now, like, my. My mom's been to rehab several times. I've been to rehab several times.

They're divorced.

Like, so much of the past that is being brought up no longer exists to me, either. So that brings up a lot of internal pain, too.

I'm like, I was gonna say, we're gonna go through that because I think again, like, so much of what has happened to you, like, why we're, like, about to talk about something that's, like, immediate actually has so many layers that it's happened in your life that got you to this point. Let's go back kind of to, like, your childhood, because you referenced, which I think a lot of people can relate to, like, the life you once knew completely shifted, and now, as an adult, you look back on that. So talk to me about your childhood in Maryland from, like, beginning to, like, ten years old. Like, that, like, adolescent, like, young kid. What was going on at that point?

I had, like, I had a wonderful childhood.

Like, I.

It was my mom and my dad together. I have an older sister. She's two years older. I was always the performer of the family.

Like, I.

My sister would never want to be in front of a camera, and she was so happy when I was born because I was like, I'm ready.

Put me in.

Where are the lights, baby? Like, give me something.

But you were, like, a very, like, outgoing, happy, like, performative kid.

Yes, yes, yes.

I was such a happy kid. I was. I was generally happy for, like, up until ten. Like, shit was good.

Life was good.

My mom, like, ran our worlds. Like. Like, she. If you asked anyone in my neighborhood or even, like, the surrounding neighborhoods, they knew who my mom was. She was, like, on the board of everything. We were signed up for all of these things. We went to church every Sunday as a family and then would walk to dinner as a family right after. Like, it was such a classic, like, really lovely, privileged upbringing. Like, I am so grateful for that upbringing. And up until ten, like, yeah, I.

Was gonna say, what was school like during that time?

School was good.

I started off at, like, a co ed religious school nearby.

Okay.

Which, like, yeah, we religious and we went to church. But my parents now recount that as, like, we just wanted to see if you liked it. Like, they're not. Like, my mom was telling me from, like, two years old. She was like, if you're gay, it's okay. Because she was like, I know.

Stop.

This bitch wants to wear heels for his third. Like, come on. And so my mom knew. Like, they knew maybe the church wasn't gonna be, like, our calling, but I think they just wanted us to have structure. So I went to a co ed religious school until fourth grade. And then I moved to an all boys school, episcopalian school for fifth grade. Where you wore coat and tie every day.

How rough?

Rough.

I mean, fifth to 6th grade was.

Like, fine, because it's like I were, like, going through puberty. I realized I was gay in 6th.

Grade, but fifth grade was just like.

I was an athletic kid. I was, I think, like, the second fastest in the grade. So in, like, fifth grade at an all boys school, that's like, that's clout, bitch. Like you are. I was like, yeah, I'm the second fastest. You guys, you can. Can't say shit. Like, what do you want?

That's literal cloud.

No, it was like, I was on top. I was on top, and. But not anymore. But I, like, fifth and 6th grade were both good. It was like everything changed. Home and school. Around the time that I came out in 7th. At the end of 7th grade, 7th is when I.

Is.

When I came out. I remember I tried to, like, come out in 6th grade. I, like, mumbled to a friend that I was gay. And they were like, what? And I was like, nothing, never mind. I was just like, I don't know how to put. I don't.

Yeah, never mind.

I can't.

It's. No, I don't even know what I just said. What?

Lunchtime. Okay, let's go. Let's go run.

Yeah.

And then when you came out in 7th grade and was that like a end of 7th grade, was it a positive experience?

Initially, yeah, I came out at theater camp because in addition to boarding school and college, I went to theater camp every summer.

Jesus Christ.

Thank you to my parents, by the way, like, for allowing me to do all this shit.

They're like our little faggot.

You can believe that one. I'm so sorry.

But they're literally like, they.

They really, to their credit, they said, follow your dreams. They were both lawyers. And they said to both me and my sister, like, you guys can do what you want. We want to work hard, so you can do what you want. And I really will always appreciate that. But I came out at theater camp to one of my friends who's actually also on TikTok now. He goes by Julian cookies. And he was, like, the gayest at camp. And so I was like, I need to tell someone that one. Like, that one in the short shorts, in the tank top who speaks in the high voice? That's gonna be the one. So I went up to. I asked him to talk one day and, like, told him I was, I think I might like guys.

I'm bi.

And then he was like, that's great. He had such, like, a casual reaction about it. And I was like, oh, right, yeah, casual reaction. Yeah, okay, it's cool. And so then when I went home and we're starting to go back to school, I knew. Cause I know how. I know how the girlies work. I was at the all boys school, and the girls school was right across the street. So I told three girls, knowing that that shit was gonna spread. I said, I'm gonna actually let you do your. Do my work for, like, spread it like wildfire. Spread it, babes. I'm gonna say, please don't tell anyone. And here we go. By lunchtime, I knew what was gonna happen, so I told a few girls, and it started getting around. But then I didn't tell my parents. Cause I was, like, waiting to have a moment with them, but I didn't know when. But this was also around the time that my mom was starting to go into a depression. And she would drive me to school every morning, and, like, one of the mornings around this exact same time, started sobbing and was like, I'm an alcoholic, and this is me, like, 7th grade or 8th grade now being driven to school.

It's like 07:30 a.m. but I'm like, I don't know what to do with myself at that point. I didn't know how to have any conversations. I wasn't in therapy yet.

And you're in 7th grade, 8th grade.

At this point, I think because I had just come out. Yeah, I was. It was a lot, like 8th grade period.

You could have the best life at.

Home, and 8th grade is going to be tough. But that started happening. And then one of the girls told their mom that I had come out, and then their mom told my mom, so then she confronted me another one of those car rides that had already become really scary for us at that point. And so I never got to come out to my parents. So there's actually, it's been a little bit of a theme. I feel like that throughout my life with these big moments, people have shared things for me. And maybe that's why I've become such an oversharer, because I think if I beat everyone to the punch, maybe I won't feel violated. But oversharing has made me come off as annoying. So it's like, you can't win. It's either I close it off and then I continue to feel violated because people share things about me that I didn't want out of, or I overshare. And he talks too much. He loves the sound of his own voice. All he does is fucking yap on the Internet. And I'm like, I know there's no way to win. And I'm not saying I'm fighting a war that's harder than anyone else's, what anyone else is going through, but it is really, it's like a mental game of tennis.

We're consistently playing with ourselves, trying to find, like, how much am I supposed to share today and be. And should I be mysterious? Or am I the person that's relatable and loves to share things? Or do I just be myself? But who am I anymore?

Because I've tried to just edit who.

I am over and over again to appease what you like, but it turns out no matter what, like, there's not gonna be people who like you. And that's like, fucking, yeah, basic Internet 101.

But no, but it's. But it's. It is interesting to connect it to the real world of you being like, it had. There is a theme in your life of, like, you're not getting the opportunity to have autonomy over your decisions or your life or your voice, and it keeps getting taken away from you. So the only rational thinking is get ahead of everything, but then you're not able to actually live your life and, like, be. Feel safe. You're constantly on your toes being like, oh, my God, if this is gonna come out, then I should do. And it's like, holy fucking shit. That's not normal. Validate you. That is not normal. And I'm sorry that happened to you in school because we all know how fucking miserable middle school is in general.

Yeah.

And going through, like, having to come out in general, it's like, why the. You shouldn't have to do that nowadays.

I know right, let's.

Well, and that's, like, to my dad's credit, because I never ended up coming out to him either. But he always says whenever people ask him, like, when did Christopher come out to you? And my parents and anyone who knew me before age, like, ten, I demanded everyone called me Christopher. I was not Chris. So my dad can. He, like, physically can't call me Chris. So everyone calls me Christopher. And it's a cute little, like, anecdote if you know me from the past, which is funny, because sometimes the Internet does that now too. And I'm like, it feels like we know each other.

Should I call you Christopher?

Hit it. Like, go for it.

We're close now.

We're close.

It's happening. We're childhood at this point, baby.

We are.

We are. But my dad has always said to people, when they say, so, when did he come out to you? He's like, he didn't, and neither did his sister, and neither did either of them have to.

Why did they.

Why did I need to have a conversation with them about who they want to love? That's their business. And I'm excited if. For whoever he wants to love. Maybe if it were. If it were a girl, great. If it's a guy, great. And he. And this is like a. This is like a. Just like a white straight guy from South Carolina. This is my, like, he is a lawyer. Like. Like, is not someone who you would immediately look at and be like, progressive, man. I feel safe to fly my flag around you. Not that he seems unsafe, but, like, I wouldn't, like there. Maybe that's why people ask him, because there's, like, maybe a little bit of a pre judgment of, like, you. You're kind of like this classic american man. What's it like having this son? And he's like, what do you mean? You know, he's like, what is this question even asking?

Your dad sounds like a fucking angel. And obviously, like, there are so many people that will watch this that are like, oh, my fucking God, I wish that, like, my dad, I did that. But I think we all have learned, like, it's okay if it's not your dad. There's someone at theater camp that can be like, oh, cool, get in our posse, bitch. Like, yeah, there is someone out there for everyone to, like, confide in and have that, like, beautiful acceptance and not have to be like, we. I'm not different. I'm me, and we're all different in, like, dude, your dad sounds fucking.

He's the best.

And that's why I, like, I kind of gaslit myself during that whole coming out scenario, because my mom in that car ride said, like, okay, I know that this is something you're doing, but, like, maybe just don't tell anyone because you might. Like, people might be mean to you. And I know she had good intentions in that, but I felt really invalidated in that moment and thought, and I.

Was in 8th grade.

I was in this time when you're like, I don't even want to talk to my parents, period. And so I'm sure she said that. And I was like, okay. And then we just didn't speak for the rest of the car ride. And I know that's, like, there's so many worse ways that coming out can go. And so I kept thinking, like, you can't be upset about this. Like, you came out, and they didn't kick you out. You're still going home. Everything is still fine. So, like, get your shit together and don't be upset.

But I do think. Chris, it's Christopher. Christopher, I do think it's interesting. I think I had this conversation with RuPaul at one point of, like, it's so convoluted of, like, our parents, most of the time. Most of the time, are trying their best, and so are we. And there's this, like, gap that we can't bridge. So, like, your mother looking at you as, like, her little baby being like, don't come out of it. From what I understand from your parents being progressive, it was like, actually her trying to protect you. But what she wasn't understanding is this little boy that was like, I have been waiting. I whispered it to a friend. They didn't hear me, so I took it back. Like, you were needing someone to be, like, whenever you're fucking ready, yeah, we're gonna stand right next to you. But it's like, you.

And she was also going through so much. And, like, she had a. Both of my parents had insanely tough childhoods.

Yeah.

And so a lot of the things that I go through with them now I have to find a lot of forgiveness because of how they were raised and how great they're doing, all considering. But, like, both of them were abused mentally and physically by their family members.

So then your mom starts drinking.

She had been drinking. I think, like, you know, she maintains that she was an alcoholic for most.

Of her life, but, like, we grew up.

When I grew up, she was like, the wine mom. Like, she wasn't.

She was never really, like, there was.

Never a point in time in which I was like, my mom is wasted. And, in fact, like, it's like. I don't know exactly how to say this, because there were times we had good moments with her when she was drinking. She was almost. She was self medicating with alcohol. And I think that was what was really confusing to us, because at some of her rehabs.

It'S just really tricky.

Because I don't want to exactly say, like, she was great when drunk, and then she hears this and is like, so I'm gonna start drinking again. You know what I mean?

No, I get what you're saying.

So let me. I'll just go back a second.

No, yeah, take your time. Like, can I just say, I have people in my life that are alcoholics, and I've seen that when someone is alcoholic, for the most part, like, understandingly, we're about to get to your life story also. But from watching your mother, there is this, like, a lot of their personality for a majority of their life, if it started young, is, like, pretty intertwined with drinking. And if they are a functioning alcoholic, they're able to show up and you're like, they're the fucking funniest person ever. And you're not seeing when the minute the bedroom door is closed, how much darker it can get or wherever it gets dark. But if you're only seeing the, like, fun wine mom, like, I can understand why you're like, it wasn't that bad, right?

It also wasn't even, like, wine mom. That was like, I'm drinking the whole bottle.

Like.

Or maybe I didn't see that too. But, like, when you're a kid growing up, if your mom is one kind of way, you just accept her as she is. That's your mom, you know? And it's been. There's just been, like, such. I really.

I do.

I really do feel for her in that moment of the coming out story, because she had just started going to aa. I don't think she had gone to rehab yet.

She had.

She knew that there was something wrong with her, and wrong with her is also, like, maybe the wrong word to say. It's like there was something going on mentally that, like, she knew she needed to address. And there was also so much going on mentally with me, and I didn't know. None of us knew how to communicate or go about any of this. And I really. I really do feel for her. And our relationship is consistently in flux, because when you get sober at 50, there's a lot of things you have then learned how to do that. Not drinking anymore is not going to undo, is not just going to immediately rewrite. And we still have a really tough relationship today. But I really do, like, love her and feel for her, and I.

Hope.

We can get back to a place that things are better, you know? Like, I know she's gonna be listening to, like, she is. She's the most supportive mom ever. There's. She. Everything she does operates out of love. I feel like I'm kind of going off track now.

No, but can I just. I want to validate you also, because. And I can imagine how many fucking people are listening to this right now being like, preach, Christopher, preach of. First of all, even if you have what looks like the most perfect family life, child family parent dynamics are so fucking confusing, and they're so deep, and especially if you are an only child versus if you have siblings and if you're the middle or you're the youngest or your oldest, and then what are the parents working with? And what is their trauma? What is their baggage? It's like, nothing is ever going to be perfect when you have your relationship with your parents. That's a fucking fact. But it's. I actually really respect you for being real of, like, if someone came on here was like, we have the perfect relationship. Well, no, you don't. No one has a fucking perfect relationship with anyone. Your significant other, your friends, your parents. So to acknowledge that you and your mom had essentially, at one point in your lives, it was like the beginning of a lot of things you had to work through individually and together, that's really, really fucking relatable.

And everyone's story is different. But, like, you sitting here getting nervous about your mom watching this, I want to, like, tell you you're doing an incredible job speaking about it, because it's. No one is confused that you love this woman so much, but I appreciate you clarifying. Like, but we got shit to work on. That's going to be the day, like, till the day we all fucking die there. I shit with my mom. I've shit with my dad, and to my friends, my life may look more perfect than theirs. Whatever. Fuck no. We've got our shit. I just want to say that I know it's weird, our lives, like, being in front of a microphone and cameras and then, like, our parents and our family has to deal with it.

Well, yeah, like, I know they're gonna watch this, and I know, like, and we actually haven't spoken since, like, that much since Christmas because there was a big, like, we just had a moment at Christmas. And, like. Like, I posted on her birthday.

When was her birthday?

And, like, I text. I also texted her it was July 31. She's also a Leo. And, like, that's, like, I am. Like, I'm a. I grew up. Like, she was my everything. She was my everything. She was my best friend. She was my biggest cheerleader, and she still is. And that's what I think makes all of it so much harder because, like, I look at her and I want a relationship with her, too. Oh, God, this is just, like, the end. These are all things that, like, I also want to talk about. I need to talk about with her at some point, but families are really tough. Like, I don't blame her for what was happening in that moment.

Yeah.

To go back to the main point.

And I think to close out that also is, like, everyone wants, like, when you. There is a moment everyone can close their eyes and think about when, like, their life seemingly felt, like, stable. Right? Like, ooh, I have this one picture in my head. Maybe for some people it was childhood. Maybe for some people it was like, their teenage years or whatever it was. You can pinpoint that summer or that Christmas that you're like, it really felt good. But it's hard because at the end of the day, like, you're talking about literally the woman that birthed you and you have such a connection to this human being. Yeah, but it's complicated and we can leave it at that because I get it. Like, there's wounds there and you're still dealing with things and aren't we all? And, like, I validate you. I also wanted to go back quickly to, like, while your mom is, like, saying this to you in the car, like, I'm an alcoholic. You. I'm assuming, like, we're dealing with things at school. Once you came out, like, being an all boy school. Talk to me. Were you bullied?

Yes, but not to the. Again, not to a level of, like, I was. Like, people were really?

Yeah.

Like, I wasn't, like, physically assaulted during these things, but it was an all boys school.

Like, I. I.

He was. The era of ask FM. Ask FM, for the people who don't.

Know, is, like, it wasn't form spring.

Also kind of, like, I think ask FM was second wave form spring.

Yeah.

Like, someone, and this is actually topical to what happens today. Like, someone hacked my Facebook and saw me talking about liking a guy in my messages and screenshotted it and spammed my ask Fm with it and was like, I'm going to send this to people. I'm going to send this to people. I'm going to send this to everyone. I'm going to send this to him, like, the person I was talking about and I fucking tried to, like, hack into the mainframe, that shit. Like, I, like, tried to find the IP address. I don't know. I was. Me and my friend were trying to find ways to do this, but I was like, it. I hadn't. I never found out who it was. There's no way to ever find out.

But again, your life, someone trying to expose you for what? Liking a guy?

Yeah. Like, I have. There have been just so many moments. I guess I'm like, literally now realizing that, like, I just have not had choice to share myself the way I have wanted to and, like, the way I had planned to and was hoping to. And it's like you. It's this continuous violation that I've tried to, like, maintain being on top of, but it's like, it's impossible to do that.

But can I ask you, like, in moments like that, right where I think I read an article and you were like, oh, my God. Like, I remember I, like, wore Doc Martens to school one day and everyone was saying I wore heels. Like, what the fuck? When people are, like, targeting you or name calling or coming for you. Back in the day, at that point, how did it affect the way that you felt about yourself and your sexuality?

I think I masked a lot with anger at those days. And I don't remember. I don't think I cried a lot in that era at all. Even when my mom was going to rehab, I think. Well, it actually became a tactic that I learned at one of her family programs. Cause she was sitting across from me. It was only me, my dad and her. And I was like 14 at this point. And we were at one of her family programs in the middle of nowhere in Tennessee. And we were doing family group, which is all of the rehab members and their families sit in a circle and then two people pull their chair into the middle. I was the youngest one there at that time. So it's me, 15, and my mom in the middle with a therapist right next to us. And my mom, I remember I was so. I didn't know how to deal with my feelings again. I wasn't like a crier at that point, and I did not like crying. And she started crying. I think it was also an all boys school thing where you get conditioned, that crying, it was like toxic masculinity was seeping in and it was like crying was weak, and crying was bad.

So I had been socialized to that. At that point, my mom is sitting across and eventually starts sobbing to me that, like, I've been a bad mom. And I don't. Like, I feel like I've missed out on your whole childhood. And the therapist turns to me at 15 and is like, so now what your job is now is to comfort her and make her feel better and, like, tell her that that's not true. Like, Christopher. Like, because I think to this therapist's credit, not that she should get that much credit, because that wasn't the way to go about it, was she had only dealt with adults whom. But even then, I don't think that's the way to go about this scenario. And I was sitting in that chair, and I remember starting to almost cry. And I tried this thing for the first time where I was like, if I repeat, don't feel in my head, I won't. And I was like, just.

I just sat there, like.

Like, put my arms by my side and, like, took deep breaths and was like, don't feel. Don't feel. Don't feel anything. And, like, kept trying to, like, well the tears down. And now I think about that, like, 15 year old, and I'm like, feel everything. Like, I just. I wish I could hug that kid and be like. And also tell that therapist, like, no, it is not this kid's job to make his mom feel. This kid is the lost one. This kid is. You have a kid across from you who's trying not to cry because he doesn't feel like there's any space for him to. And all I wish I could do is, like, I don't know, just take myself to the side and be like, we don't have to go through this right now. This is not your job to hold the emotional labor of both of these things. And again, to my mom's, like, my mom was going through it. She did feel like she was a bad mom. And I did want to tell her in that moment that she wasn't, but I didn't. I froze. I didn't know how to speak.

And, like, I remember. I, like, the next day, they were like, okay, that seemed like a lot for you. And they, like, let me, like, play with the horses. And I was just. And, like, my mom. Like, there was a time when I was. It was me, my dad, and my mom sitting, doing a workshop, and my mom, like, told my dad something really traumatic from her childhood, and he stood up and stormed out, and she ran out to follow him. And then I was just sat there in the room with all the rest of the people, like, coloring in this workbook. And I didn't cry about these things because I think all of that had become normal. The more chaos that's happening, the more normal. And so when I was, like, playing with the horses the next day, I was like. I think I was like, this is nice, but I turned off my feelings, right? And at, like, 15, I wish I hadn't done that, because it took me such a long time to get to a place where I felt like I could be emotional again and could reconnect with and hold that space.

Like. And this kid, he didn't.

Yeah.

He just, like, no one was. No one was telling him what was okay to feel.

Yeah. It. I have spoken to people before, and I've had people in my life that have talked to me about how, like, I think a lot of kids that experience any type of, like, addiction in their household or abuse, you are adultified very quickly because you either need to assume the role of the adult, because you need to take care of the addict, or if you're getting abused, you need to be self sufficient, and you need to find a source of how to continue to live. And it feels like what you're saying is, like, your family got so good at just, like, we don't really talk about things. Things just happen, and we move. And you sitting there hearing what your mom said, that was so traumatic, and then you're like, keep coloring in the line. You just keep going.

It was like a literal worksheet and was like, just keep going, I guess. And then go back to school and make sure your grades are up. Because then I would go back to school and, like, that my parents would tell the teachers what had happened, but the teachers would be like, you know, it's really not great that you missed.

Like, the past few days.

And I would just be like, yeah. Like, I don't really know what else to do. I'm just like, my mom's in rehab. I'm coming out. No one seems to like me at school. Like, I'm the gay kid. And I think I just became okay with, like, nothing was okay. And I started feeling my classes, and I was like, yeah, I guess I'm just not meant to, like, be happy. Like, I think, like, my life is maybe just, like, it's just not gonna be like some of the other ones. And that's. And, like, maybe that's okay. And maybe, like, I don't know. There were so many times that I was kind of ready to go because I didn't see an end. And I remember I was, like, driving home with my dad once. Once my mom had gone to rehab. I remember, like, turning Tim in the cardinal and because everything happened so fast, but also there was no preparation for when things were gonna end. I remember turning to him and being like, mom seems kind of different. Like, everything's different, isn't it? He was like, yeah, it is. And then we just kind of, like, continued driving in silence.

And it was just a silent acceptance.

Of, like, that childhood that I was.

Talking about where, like, I. We were on top of everything. My mom was on the board of everything. We went to all these amazing things, and everyone knew my mom. It was gone, like, immediately, and I never really got to say goodbye. And I was telling a friend the other day about these car rides where in the morning it was filled with vitriol, and I was really scared. And my mom would either be crying or get mad at me because I wasn't sharing enough, which we now know has been like, is borderline personality disorder, bipolar. But then on the rides home, we would have a good time together. And it was like she was. And she said one time in rehab, she was, like, in her rehab, she was like, do you remember how I was always a little happier on the rides home? And I realized it was cause she was drinking, but I was like, I didn't realize that I should have held on to those seemingly. Seemingly, like, mild moments with her, whether they were like, yeah, we can stop by cv's and get. Or stop by 711 and, like, get you a slurpee, I would be like, okay.

And this is also the age that I wasn't. I was annoyed by my parents, period, regardless of what was happening, so I didn't appreciate it. But if I could have. If I could go back and, like, just be in that car with her one more time and, like.

Just, like.

Go to 711 together and, like.

It.

Seems so, like, it's. It seems so low key.

Like, go to 711, but, like, just get a. She would let me, like, pick out a treat. And I didn't know that those were some of the, like, last good moments we were gonna have together. And I just wish I did because I probably didn't appreciate them being, like, a 8th grader who was like.

Thanks.

Yeah, I'll grab something. Like, I probably, we probably didn't even, like, talk about it. And that's what's so hard, because right now I'm doing so many things that when I was a kid, we talked about together. Like, I would always joke to her that, like, I'll bring you to. Sorry, no, I'll bring you to, like, I was a mama's boy. You saw the photos. I was like, I'll bring you to. I loved her so much, and I still do. And I would, like, hold her face and be like, I'm going to take you to every red carpet with me. I'm gonna get you a house near me in LA. And now I'm, like, doing these things. And she's asked before to come along, and it's just so complicated now because I know I've been through a lot of therapy, and I know boundaries are important, but I wish we could, like. And I. Like, I know she's gonna hear this too. And I do. I do wish we could do those things together. And I do think that we will, but we have a lot of work.

To do, of course.

But.

I know it's not all bad and that, like, you know, nothing's, like, fully lost. And I really do trust that we're gonna have a relationship again. But, um, if I had known that.

Everything was going to change in 8th.

Grade, I would have held on to it and I would have, like, maybe, like. Like, none of us just. None of us talked as a family. Like my. I mentioned my sister. Like, we were going through this together, and we did not talk about the fact that we were going through it together until my second rehab. Um, I. What I cry a lot about these days is, like, missing what I didn't realize was leaving in the past.

But I was gonna say, like, I feel like when you're talking about that, like, slurpy moment, which is like, every kid has, that. If you, like, again, think of that moment with one of your parents that was so euphoric and perfect. What you're really talking about is the feeling you got from that moment. It's not the fucking slurpee, it's not the seven element. It's that feeling with your mother and that, like, perfect feeling you had and, like, the closeness you felt with this woman.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, when we're kids, we have no fucking comprehension of. This woman is 50 something years old.

Right?

So we're not even there yet, Chris.

You know what I mean?

Like, we're. We're young right now. So the amount of life that woman had lived and the amount that woman sitting in that car, to you, that memory was so happy, but clearly she was fucking struggling, right?

That's what's so confusing about it, too, because she retells those times as, like, that was when I was going through the hard time. And, like, I'm sitting there being like, whoa. Oh. Like, that was, like, a good memory we had together. And I never on the camp of, like, and so drunk. Her was better? Her? No, not at all. But, like, I'm like, that was so. That was just the mom I had gotten used to as a kid growing up.

Yes.

And, like, I think that is maybe why it's so. I miss those times, too, because that was maybe before I started feeling these violations of people sharing things against my will. It all started around that time. So I felt like I was maybe, like, still allowed to be a kid and allowed to be, like, my loud and angry self. And, like, I got into this. This is a bit of a deviation. We'll come back. But, like, I got into this field and, like, felt like, this career and felt like I was honoring that kid by, like, being this loud and, like, crazy guy. And so that is what makes the hatred against specifically that hurt so much harder, because it's like, if it is.

Me receiving it, but it's also, like.

The, like, kid in 8th grade who is coping by, like, being loud and, like, being a theater kid. And, like, okay, like, every summer, maybe, like, every time, maybe, like, being home sucks, but at least I have theater camp every summer. And, like, that's what one of my friends said in my intervention. She was like, because I never got drunk at theater camp.

And there were people who would.

But even in the middle of my addiction, there was a three week theater camp one summer, and I didn't drink the whole time.

And she was like, do you remember that?

And, like, I didn't feel like I needed to because, like, theater camp, I was so, like, I never needed to get drunk the other times. But, like, the moments of me being so expressive and loud are when I'm honoring myself the most or when I'm.

Being my most self.

So the more I quiet myself is, the more I want to be destructive. Like, that this itch turns on in the back of my head. And if I'm fully honest, it definitely turned on over the past month. And a lot of people were being like, I'm worried about his sobriety, and I'm not throwing. I'm not about to go fucking get drunk. It makes me feel like I want to be quiet. And that all that does is build up this energy that's like the devil on my shoulder that just wants to destroy himself.

Yeah, but like, you just talked about. And this is why I really appreciate you, like, going through all this with me, because there's so many things that are connected of, like, you wanting to speak up about. First we're talking about your sexuality, and then you're like, wait, I don't think I can do that. And then you go inside, and then you get. You feel like you can't be yourself. And it's the same thing with, like, going through this at rehab with your mom. And you want to speak up, and you actually are like, no, wait, I don't want to talk about you being a good mom right now. But they're like, no, no, talk about this. You go inside, and every time you go inward, you feel like you're just, like, abandoning your actual emotions. And you're just like, what the fuck am I doing? And every time you're loud, what people call is loud, every time you are expressing yourself, it is that theater could be like, I'm fucking happy. I'm myself. I'm free. I'm enjoying myself. But I do. Before we go into now your journey, I do just want to also point out the thing that you were talking about of, like, being in the car ride with your father and, like, realizing everything is different now.

I feel like this is just like, something. It's not even like a question. It's just a statement for people listening. It's like this whole story so far. Something that's very important to take away is, like, we are all fucking lonely when we are isolated and we are not meant to be alone. And so that young fucking kidde looking up at his dad while he's driving you home, what you're really asking your dad is like, I'm terrified. Everything is changing. My whole world is falling apart. Help me. But you don't have the tools to do that. And that is on the adults. But again, now we've talked about it, but the adults are fucked up from the abuse they've endured from previous generations. So it's like, this is all passed down trauma of, like, generations. But to talk about it on a podcast like this is helpful, because if you end up deciding one day you would want to have a family and have children, you will be at least a little bit more cognizant than maybe the previous. And that's all we can fucking do is talk.

Yeah. And I give so much credit to my dad, even though maybe he didn't know what to say in that moment. Like, I'm so.

I feel I'm not like, it was.

Every space for me at that point had become unsafe.

I think home wasn't safe. School wasn't safe.

Like, I learned just to, like, the most safe was, like, alone.

And I think I slide into that a lot.

Like, and I know that's a relatable thing. I'm not saying, like, oh, I'm, like, the only lonely person out here, but I learned, like, no one's on my side, and that's unfair to the people who I know really wanted to be, but that's what I felt in the moment. That's all that I felt. I just felt, no one's on my side. And my dad didn't know how to talk to his son, who had just came out and who was obviously very.

Depressed but didn't know it.

And my dad was also, like, his.

Life was falling apart, too. Like.

I love my dad so much. And that's another thing we missed out on in those eras.

Washington.

We weren't close, but.

His marriage of 22 years was falling apart. His, like, wife was in rehab, and.

His kids wouldn't talk to him. He really tried his best. As much as I pushed against him, he really tried his best.

He actually is the reason I'm a swiftie. My dad is the biggest swifty in the world. Maybe not the world, but, like, my dad is a fearless era. Swifty, when you belong with me was happening. Like, he was the one who got me on to her. And I'm not lying about that. This is a very secure straight man.

What is your dad's name?

Chris. He's also Chris. I'm a junior.

Christopher, the original. You're a legend.

He is Christopher. He is. And, like, he. And that's a way we didn't even know, but we would, like, maybe we would be in silence, but, like, you were bonding. He tried.

He really tried.

And as, like, a guy who grew.

Up in the south and, like, doesn't maybe didn't have, like, a gay guy friend growing up.

Like, I was a new thing to.

Him, and, like, I'm not here thinking, like, and it should be perfect immediately, but he tried really hard, and. And it's so seen, and, like, I love him so much for it.

It's like you're talking about sadly, like, the most related. There are tissues over there if you want them.

If you also feel like I'm all over the place, you're doing great. Bouncing.

I'm gonna be really honest with you. This is, like, one of the most incredible interviews I've ever had.

Thank you.

Because you're talking about the most fucking real shit right now. You are talking about, like, the dynamics in a fucking family. Haven't we all been through that? Haven't we all sat in our fucking room and been so fucking upset? And there's different levels to it, but it's like, the interpersonal dynamics of, like, mom, dad, sister, brother, whoever the fuck, dealing with your sexuality, dealing with coming out, all of this.

Yeah.

Everyone, I'm telling you right now, every single person at home is like, thank you for. And you're articulating it so beautifully of, like, this is so fucking real. It's so fucking real. And I appreciate you can see you, like, you're defending your parents, but you're also addressing the pain that has happened in your fucking life. Two things can fucking exist. But I do want to go back to. You said something that was very relatable, and I know this led you to something that really affected you and still affects you to this day, but it was like, you talking about being alone, and you were like, I felt my safest when I was alone, but then when I'm alone, I go internal, and it all starts spiral.

Yes.

You struggled with alcohol and drugs.

Yes.

When was the first time you, like, got drunk? You struggled with alcohol and drugs.

Yes.

When was the first time you, like, got drunk?

14. I was 14. I was with my best friend, and we. Her parents were, like, at an event that night. We were at her house, and we stole some of their alcohol and, like, got pretty wasted. Parents came home, and we were fucking messes, and they were like, what is wrong with you? We both got grounded and had to clean out. They had moved into that house, like, a few months or maybe like, a year before that. But there was one room that was all of the storage shit just piled up, and it was their perfect opportunity to be like, you know what you're doing tomorrow all day? You're cleaning out that room. And this was like, there was. It was about the size of this room. Shit to the ceiling. I was like, okay, so, like. And listen, I had a fun time when I got drunk when I was 14, but I wasn't like, boom, it's on. Like, now it's happening. Like, I didn't start. I got drunk a few more, but it's also. It wasn't, like, that accessible to me. Yeah, my. By the time my mom was an alcoholic, my dad didn't keep alcohol in the house.

I didn't have, like, a fake until, like, later in high school. Allegedly never had a fake. But, like, I it was not accessible to me a lot until junior year of high school, when I became really close friends with one of my classmates who lived nearby, and we would go to her house on the weekends, because in boarding school, you still have to, like, sign out and sign it like your minors, so they have a lot of liability over you.

Yes.

So we would sign out every weekend to go to her house.

Yep.

And her mom would get us alcohol, and we would get drunk every weekend. And so once it became really accessible, then it just became like, yeah, of course I'm doing this every weekend. Like, why would I. Why would I. Everything feels so much better. What I didn't realize was, like, everything just hurt less. Like, I think I thought I was like, oh, I'm just a partier. And I, like, have fun, and, like.

I probably thought I was, like, all.

I'm doing is, like, living it up with the girls and doing that when really I'm, like, passed out in the bathroom, like, covered in my own vomit. And that happened one time, I was home. Home at my dad's house, and I stole some alcohol from a friend's house. It was gin and tequila. I didn't know anything about alcohol. I poured them together into a water bottle, filled it up, and just drank it. Like, this is a 15 year old doing that. I didn't know what. I had no idea. I was alive for the first, like, 30 minutes, and then I remember nothing. I remember being on the phone with someone, and then I remember waking up, like, face down on the kitchen floor with vomit all the way down my side, and my dad being like, are you okay? And me being like, yeah, sorry. And running upstairs and getting in bed and then telling my dad the next day, like, I think I must have had a stomach bug. And him being like, okay, no, what happened? And I, like, lied to him about where I got it. I, like, you know, I tried to find every way to make myself not get in trouble, and he would ground me, but this was when my mom was gone, my sister was gone, and he had to work all day, so he would ground me at home and find my iPhone, and life 360 wasn't a thing at that point, so he would ground me and then go to work, and I would leave the house.

Like, what are you talking about? Grounded? I'm 15. And, like, I had a bike and would bike everywhere. So it was around then, like, I started. I also started stealing a lot. I was 15. But then I got caught, like, a year after stealing and really was scared out of never doing it. Again. But I just started doing everything that was basically, like, bad behavior.

Yeah.

And, like, the first time I ever went to the psych ward was around 15. And this is now. My mama has gotten sober at this point. She's back, but my parents are divorced, but she has moved away. And we see her every once in a while, but not that often. I, like, broke in to my neighbor's house. Cause we had a key for their house for emergencies. Broke into my neighbor's house, stole a laptop that I saw on the table, and then tried to wipe it and make it my own or something like that. It was right after I watched the movie spring breakers.

Shut the fuck.

I thought, I'm a be a bad bitch and steal a fucking laptop. I don't know what was wrong with me. A lot. A lot. Obviously, like, we're going through what was wrong with me. I did that. Then that same night, my neighbors call my dad and are like, hey, we think someone stole something from our house. We know your son is having a lot of issues right now, and there's no break it. Like, no one broke in. A key was used, and you guys are the only ones that don't have a key. And I remember I, like, lied to my dad initially and was like, I don't have a key. And then he sat down next to me on the bed and was like, if we don't find it, they're gonna call the police and search the house. And then I silently, like, went to my closet, grabbed it, and handed it over to him. And then I think I, like, walked calmly into their bathroom and closed the door and, like, looked at the medication cabinet and was like, what should I take? Because I was like, I can't. I don't know what I'm supposed to go, how I'm supposed to continue on.

Like, I just stole from a. My neighbors who. A house that they've trusted me. We were friends with their kids growing up. I got caught stealing earlier. I've. I'm already grounded. How do I sleep? Forever? And, like, my dad ended up, like, banging on the door a bunch to the point of me let, like, me opening it, and it was the first time I ever had a panic attack and was, like, sobbing, crying. He was like, we have to go. And he took me to the hospital, and they put me in the psych ward for the first time because I said I was, like, I was at risk to myself. And, like, I was honest about that because I was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do right now, because, again, not a communicative family. I think it was in therapy at that point, but it wasn't like I was really in it. So that was 15 before I really got to regular drinking at 17, once.

That started happening, can I say when you get out?

Pause of the psych ward?

Yes. Are you coming out and are you at all having a conversation with your father, or is it kind of just back to the regular scheduled programming?

I think my parents came to the psych ward at the end of it for discharge, and they were like.

I.

Mean, the psych ward's conclusion was that I have problems with adjustment in life because the therapist, which this therapist, like, don't know how you got your license. I'm a 15 year old, and he's asking me. He is just going through a list of questions and is like, do you get anxious about things? And I'm like, yeah, I do. Do you have racing thoughts? I mean, I have a lot of thoughts, but I'm not really sure if then you don't. And, like, would he. Like, he never looked up at me, was just, like, checking off, and I was like, okay. And then his conclusion was no diagnostic. Like, he didn't diagnose me with anything. He was just like, it sounds like there's been a lot of changes going on. He said this to my parents, like, sounds like there's been a lot of changes going on in with you two. And he's just having trouble with the adjustment to that. And so it was like, they also didn't get much closure or clarity from that. So it's just like, this is it. Bye now. And then I think I go back to boarding school the next.

And then I went back. Yeah, I went back for my sophomore year and was like, okay, thank you.

For sharing this, because I do think it's like you're sharing that you were struggling. You go into the psych ward, they're unable to even, like, help regulate you or even be like, maybe this kid is fucking depressed. Maybe we need to sit this kid down. Maybe this kid has a substance abuse issue, whatever it is. Maybe let's chill for a second and all have many, many, many conversations to help this child, which just makes me so fucking sad for so many fucking kids go through this, where it's like, all you fucking wanted someone to do was pay the fuck attention to you and ask, what do you need? How can we help? How can we support you? Let's all come together. Let's maybe not have you go back to school for a minute. Let's actually say, like, there were so many things that, like, could have happened, but they didn't. And then you're at this boarding school, and you're also abusing alcohol. Do you start using drugs in college or high school?

Drugs? Like college. Because, yeah, there wasn't much access to them in high school, but in college, you know? And I also went to college at Berkeley in Boston. So that's, like, so many colleges there. So, like, the drugs are around if you want them. I'm 26. I have to remember. I'm 26.

Where am I?

Yes.

Oh, my God. We probably were in Boston, like, right. Overlapping. I'm. I just. I was 29, so I just turned 30.

So, like, where'd you go to college?

Bu.

Oh, my God. Yes. And Berkeley and Bu are, like, right next to each other. I would go see shows at Bu all the time.

Like, that is crazy.

Yeah. But as you know, Boston is college. Boston is just one huge college.

And you're in a city, and you're in a city. You're also meeting people out of college that have access to drugs. Like, oh, I remember seeing it all.

Out of college who, like, oddly want to hate around a lot of college kids. And you're like, sketch. And now we realize we're like, that was weird. When you're in it, you're like, oh, yeah, my, like, 30 year old friends. And you're like, oh, shit. That was actually really kind of fucked up.

So you're drinking one day and is this in college? You walk into your kitchen, and your entire family and your friends are there to give you an intervention.

The drinking had got to the point where I couldn't go to sleep sober. And I would cry all the time when I was drunk, which is the indicator of, like, as we said, I learned how to not feel sober. So I was crying all the time drunk. So I. Everything had gotten. And I was also, like, doing a bunch of other drugs, anything, so I wouldn't be sober.

Yeah.

So I walk into my kitchen, and my entire family is there. It's like, my mom, one of my family friends, moms, my aunt, my uncle, my dad, my sister, two of my best friends from college, and an interventionist, and I walked in and I just sat down. Like, I didn't protest. I knew what was happening, but I also didn't know that the deal was, and now you have to go to rehab today. Basically, it's like at an intervention, you sit down, and everyone reads how your alcoholism and addiction has impacted you them. And it's very emotional. And people who aren't there also send in letters. So, like, my grandma, my filipino grandma, who's been in a bunch of my tiktoks, had to send in a letter and all that stuff, and then they finish it with, like. And so now we need you to go to Florida to rehab today. And I remember being like, oh, well, I can't. Like, I have to finish school. Like, let me finish the school year, and I'll go this summer. Like, let me do a summer rehab, you guys. Like, this is fucking with the plan. And then the interventionist is like, okay, are you refusing help?

And I was like, yeah. And then he was like, okay. Everyone turned to the next page. Next page in their packets is how I'm no longer in their lives. And everyone goes around saying, you will no longer exist to us. Like, I'm cut you off financially. I will not respond to a single text. I'll not do anything. It's going around and gets my sister, and she breaks down and is just like, don't let dad read his letter. And my dad started crying, too. And as I've said, my dad, like, rarely cries. And seeing him cry, I just knew at that point what it was. It was like, you're gonna be homeless and cut off from the family. You'll never be, like, I will be alone. And as I said, I felt alone was safe, but, like, I could not be that. Like, I knew it was. I was back. I was forced into it in a good way. Like, I needed to go to rehab, but that was the end of it. Oh, and my. My aunt was there. One of my aunts who is now.

She passed away a year after I.

Got sober, but she was also there. And I think her breast cancer had come back around that time, so she was there. And seeing her there, saying how confusing it was to see me go through this was also heartbreaking at its time. But I was not surprised when the intervention happened. I was really destructive and crying when I was drunk, angry when I was drunk. I would yell at my friends if they wanted to help me. I would, like, pushed them away. I was like. So I was letting out, I think, all of the feelings that from 15 on, I had learned to not feel when I said, don't feel.

And then when you're drunk, it just comes out.

It just comes out.

So you go to rehab. And I remember reading, like you said, after getting sober, things didn't just completely change overnight. Like, you still lightly were participating in activities that you weren't proud of. What patterns, like, with yourself, were you kind of, like, still engaging in, like.

Well, when I went to rehab, when I stopped drinking a month in, I lost, like, 25 pounds because of, like, the literal, like, alcohol flushing out of my body, basically. And I started going to the gym, so I got in shape, and I was like, I had gotten male attention in a way that I hadn't received it before. And, like, it's a slippery slope once you're sober because it's really easy to get addicted to anything else. And so I think, like, my sexuality is what I leaned into, and, like, I was, like, posting thirst traps all the time on Instagram doing that shit. Like, I was, like, just being. I was just trying to. I would, like, that was my. That was what my, like, addiction turned into was like that. And also, you like, the. Using my sexuality for control and power and feeling like, oh, I have worth. That's what it was. I was placing my worth in that. And so that resulted in, like, activity that I didn't like, whether it was, like, sending pictures to people that I shouldn't have or pictures or videos or some shit like that. But also even saying that, like, I don't blame myself for those moments because we've all done, like, to a certain degree, something like that.

But it had gotten to a point where it was, like, I was doing it at a level where, like, I knew it was past what I. When I was logically thinking, was comfortable with. Like, when I was walking around day to day, I was like, I don't like that this is kind of what I'm doing. Like, I. If I'm. If I'm really honest with myself, I think around that time, if Onlyfans had been as big, that's what I. I probably would have done that. But, like, I didn't. And, like, I'm. Then that's not, like, again, that's not a slight to anyone who does onlyfans live your dreams. But, like, at that era, right after becoming sober was not something I should have been playing with, but I leaned into it because I was also really used to doing the wrong thing often.

Right? Like, you're. I get what you're saying. It's like, you. You can't just go from one thing that you're like, yes. That you have an addiction to. To being like, okay. And so it's like, in a way, it's like, working out and, like, leaning into embracing your sexuality and sending these things. Like, at first glance, could be like, yes, Chris, like, yes is good. Lean it. But then it's also like, again, you started to take it too far, to the point where your brain is like, should I stop or should I keep going? And where do I know when I'm empowering? But also, like, I kind of feel icky when I'm doing this stuff. And who am I doing this for? And am I looking for validation? It's all over the place. Relatable. Like, I have had so many fucking moments that I look back on as a young girl being like, why did I send that picture? Why did I send that video? Some of it was because I was getting pressured. Some of it is because it made me feel better about myself, because I felt wanted or desired or whatever it was.

I think we all go through a phase of that. It doesn't have to be sending pictures and videos, but whether you lean into a hookup that you're not as into, or you put up with something that you weren't interested in because it made you feel cooler, because the. The person, whatever it is.

Right, right.

We all go through it. Let's talk about the photos and videos that brings us now full circle that just leaked online. Let's talk about the photos and videos that brings us now full circle that just leaked online. You said that they came from a non consensual experience with a photographer. How did this shoot come to be?

So, at that point, when I was posting these, like, fitness photos on social media, like, fitness photos, they're thirst straps. I'm honest. I was posting a lot of body pics, and photographers would reach out, be like, can we work together and we'll just mutually post each other? Like, we not paying each other or something like that. And I was like, yeah, sure, great. And the first few that I did were just that, like, there are. There are some wonderful photographers out there that I'm, like, still friends with that I had a good time, but, like, there was a point at which I did one, and at the start of it, he asked me to, like, sign a release. And I had never seen a release before in my life. This is pre any content. So I was like, I don't really, like, know what this is, but he was like, oh, you just have to, like, in order for us to start, we have to do that. I was like, I don't remember doing that with anyone. He was like, you can read it if you want, but most people don't. He's making it seem like I was like, oh, okay.

So I was like, and I'm also, like, this, like, 19 year old who's kind of like, I'm like, I don't want to, like, upset this older guy, so let me just sign, like, what. What's the worst that can happen? Let me get it over with. And then we're, like, taking photos and it gets to a point where he's, like, asking a little bit more than I had been comfortable with and then that I had wanted to do. But again, what I learned over those past few years is the best thing you can do is not feel too loudly about something. So just, like, quietly do what is going to cause the least noise, because I've had too much noise in my life already. Everything I do causes noise. So, okay, I'll continue. And when it finished, like, I didn't directly, I think I went back into don't feel mode and was like, whatever, okay. And then, like, maybe a month later was the first time someone dmed me and was like, love this pic. And I was like, how did that, how did you get, and it was, he sent me the photo and I was like, how did he get that?

And then I asked the photographer and he was like, oh, yeah, it's on my, like, one of my sites. And I was like, okay, would you mind taking that down? Like, I don't, I didn't know you were gonna put that up there. I don't feel comfortable. He was like, well, you signed the release for it. I can take it down, I guess. But, like, he essentially just made me feel like, I'll do you the favor, maybe. And I was like, okay. Like, I'm sorry. I ended up apologizing and then it was out. And, like, it was, I didn't have a big platform at the time, so.

I was like, whatever.

This made me feel really icky, but, like, someone has it and that's fine. But then I get this platform with a significant other and people are then dming him these photos and me and this stuff, and I'm like, the best thing to do is ignore. Like, I can't cause attention, call attention to it. The best thing to do is pretend like it's not happening because maybe not that many people are seeing it or something like that. So I went to one of the Twitter pages of the people who had posted that photo, but also other ones. There are so many out that I'm like, not so many. Don't look. Then I was like, where the FDA did these all come from?

Right?

So I find this guy who had tweeted them and I dmed him and was like, hey, do you mind taking those down, and he blocks me. So then I just google his Twitter name and go on. Not signed in because you can still do that. And he tweets, I'm going to take Chris's photos down in 30 minutes. Download them now. And so I was like, it's over. Like, in. This guy had, like, not. He had like a, like, I don't know, 40,000 followers or something. It was enough that I was like, it's done. And then he unblocks me. DM's me back. Just took them down. And I was like, I saw what you said and I reported you. And he was like, dude, I'm just a 20 year old kid. Like, this is the only thing I have. You're gonna take away the only thing I have. And I was like, I can't. And then I didn't respond because I was like, I. There's no. There's no conversation to be had with you. But at that point, it was out. And I knew, maybe don't address it for as long as I can. But then I think it was that it was the leaking photos and now people dming me being like, why did you do that shoot?

Did you think, like, those were gonna look good? Did you think you were gonna, like, hang them up in your house? Like, I can never look at you the same. All of that shit. And I was like, okay, so people also don't know why it's even happened.

Like, they.

There's a different idea of why this is out and this is all happening. Paired with the annoying comments that had just started being louder and louder after, like, months of hearing that over and over again. And, like, I'm saying, like, these comments of, like, I hate him and I. He is the most annoying creator ever. They were getting like, 60,000 likes. Like, these weren't, like, if. If it was one comment and they had, like, one, like, I would be like, chris, you're hurting yourself. But, like, these were the top of the comment section, loud as fuck. And, like, so these two things paired together is what was leading up to then me feeling like, okay, me ignoring it has not worked. Like, it's getting there. And I know that when I post a video about it, I'm still going to draw more eyes to it than are probably already there. But I actually don't care. I don't care. If you want to go look it up, that's on you at this point.

If someone goes and searches that. I had the same thing with Madison beer when people were like, well, wait, I can't find it. What is wrong with you?

Did you not hear the story?

Did you not just hear the story of you literally going through something so traumatic? This is getting leaked? And now the first perverse thing people are thinking is like, where can I click? Shame on you. Go fuck yourself. You have an actual problem with yourself if you're wanting to see this.

Exactly.

And that's the search on every single one of the posts is crystal, some photos, and I'm like, disgusting. Yeah, good for you guys. Have fun. Like, but I was like, I actually. The violation is there. I feel violated.

It's out.

How much worse can it get by me telling you how this makes me feel now? Because I think, like, there is too much of this idea that we're supposed to, like, remain unfazed and, like, be like that bitch and be like, you guys can't touch me. I'm the one, like, up here. I'm the one in LA. It's like, no, I don't. I actually don't even feel like that. As I said, I feel like the.

Six year old or the twelve year.

Old or the 15 year old that everyone is pointing and laughing at right now. And I'm going to share how this makes me feel. And I posted two of those videos in the morning. And then my friend came over because we had a work session together that day and he, like, walks in and I hadn't cried yet. I was just so fucking angry. And my plan originally was, find every negative comment about me, click on each one of their pages, find out everything about them, and make, like, a 20 part series about each one of them and tear them apart. I was driving home and I was like, I'm gonna fucking destroy all of them. But that's not me. Like, that is not me. And I started out that day with the breakdown being like, I'm the one with the, like, I'm the one with the career, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then my friend comes in and he's like, is everything okay? And I just start sobbing for, like, 30 minutes. And I'm like, this is the truth of the feeling. I'm not. I don't want to clap back at you. I just want to show you how sad this makes me feel and how insane this will drive someone.

I appreciate you sharing that because I think it's like, listen, there are the people on the Internet right now that are creators, right? And then the more and more that people keep berating them and hurting them and bullying them, they'll eventually prevail or they'll go away, right? Literally, literally go away. Or actually just decide to step back. Because sometimes we've seen both angles, right? And then someone new will pop up. And that person that was new is one of the people that's currently in the comments that maybe doesn't have any followers right now. And so that person pops up. We've all started from zero, right? And so the people that pop up get these platforms and it makes me sad and I wish I could, and I wish someone could just like live in it for 2 seconds where it's like, people wonder why people change on the Internet. People wonder why when you're talking about editing yourself. Chris, I have sat and watched myself for almost seven years and been like, I thought that was funny, but I know I'll probably get shit for it and people will think I'm like, try harder, cringe.

So I'm gonna take it out and it's like, I am tryhard and cringe because I am the girl that's in the basement making the most embarrassing videos in my basement. Cause I was getting bullied and I was like, this makes me happy. So when I am extra and when I am trying to be confident, I'm not actually confident. Half time, I'm faking it to make myself remember, like, this is what makes you feel confident is putting yourself out there. So every time someone brings us down, it is. You're right. It is the young kid that loved this. And now it's becoming not as fun because people can't just let anyone fucking live. And people succeeding, it threatens people. It upsets them. Whatever it is. I just think it's important to recognize, like, the reason that Internet personalities or celebrities change, the reason that everyone shifts, is because of this.

Yes.

Is big. Let's keep it real.

Being annoying is not a crime.

Not so. It's like, it upsets me that, like, the over saturation of social media, there's a new bar at which we. We judge people and, like, how bad we judge them. It's like we. You're mad because, like, she did something a little cringe and like, try harder. Like, not girls. Girl in it. Like, bro, like, right? Come on.

Right? And like, she should kill herself.

You should kill your, like, right.

How did we get there? How do we get there? And it's exactly what you were saying of, like, we're loud on the Internet.

Because that feels like our place where.

We can express ourselves. And we feel like, I am not that way 95% of the time. Not that I'm like, fully putting on a character. But, like, I am. I'm trying to bring out my most joyous self when I'm online and, like.

We all fucking know how shit it feels to be put down. You feel like shit.

Which I just.

But then I. I don't have people in my life who react by then putting other people down publicly.

Yeah, we all talk shit there.

There are creators I don't like. There are creators I find so annoying.

Same.

But you will never catch me saying that online because I don't want them to see it and I don't want them to be taken down. Problematic is a different story. But, like, annoying. I just scroll and, like, I don't have people in my life who at least I think, who comment on their.

Privileges, how much they hate, like, you.

And so I don't. I can't, like, relate to these people. I can't under. I can't, like, I think I try to do a good job at having empathy and, like, yeah, putting myself in someone's shoes. So I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who just commented, he can literally die. Or he. This man is the ugliest man I've ever seen. Or, like, he will win at an untalented competition every time. And I'm like, I actually, like, don't know anyone who would do that. So I don't know how I can, like, I can't relate to you.

No, I.

Nor do I even. I actually don't even really want to.

No.

And, like, yes, I can socialize myself into being like, and you're a loser, but I'm still gonna be sad about it.

Yeah.

About what was said.

Of course it always hurts. Like, I used to say, like, it doesn't affect me. And I was, like, lying because I thought maybe it would, like, make me seem better. Of course it affects me. I want to be liked. I literally am a people pleaser. I want people to like me. I want people to, like, want to be around me. I want to entertain people. But at what expense of, like, these comments?

Yeah.

I also think something that everyone can relate to and that really makes me upset for you is the moment in the photo shoot when you're like, just go with it because it's better than to, what, make him upset. And it was a complete, also, like, abuse of power. And so it's like, I know you wrote or you said on social media, like, I have to acknowledge that I never said no. And I want to say to you, in my personal opinion, I don't think you have to deliberately say no in a situation like that where it's so clear there is a power dynamic that is being abused. And I'm so sorry that happened to you. But I also want to say to everyone listening, like, how many fucking times have we been in a situation where everyone is like, why don't you just leave? Why didn't you say no? It is so fucking complicated.

And the fear, 100%.

There's so much mentally that goes into it that actually the concept of saying no, in most moments, you can already go to, he's gonna hurt me. He could literally fucking kill me. He could do whatever it is. You don't know.

No, I don't know at all. And, like, I. That is why I did want to make the point of, like, I know there's not, like, that much accountability to take as the 19 year old in this situation. And I know they're out there because I didn't say no. And yes, there should have been maybe someone helping me, helping guide me more in that scenario, or maybe the guy could have sensed that I didn't want to do it, but it's out there. And that was another point of my video, was like, I know there's accountability to take from me. And that's why I'm saying now I would just like you guys to not seek out those photos or consume them. I know they're out there. I know a lot of it is my doing, and I know I can take accountability for the fact that they're out there, even if it feels a little invasive and abusive that they're out there. I'll own that part. I will own it. But I'm asking you today to not do that. If I didn't say no, then I'm saying no now. And so now if you're seeking it out, I've said no.

And that is the most I can do in this scenario. And, like, it's exactly what we said earlier. Like, that was all I could do. And I know I don't have the power over everyone, and there's a lot of shitty people in the world, and a lot of people did probably end up looking at them after that, but I had to know that was gonna, like, I had to just accept that. And I did. I did. Because, like, I. At that moment, I cared more about, like, healing the kid in me who felt like something about. Of his was shared unconsensually for the first time. It's been, like, a big theme of our conversation at that point, I just wanted to go back to him and just be like, we can say that it's not fair that things are getting shared, because up until that moment when my mom had been told that I came out, that I came out that and I didn't want that, I hadn't said I didn't like that. That got to you first. Like, any of those moments, I had not said no or held up a boundary. And, like, this is, I think, the first year in my life that I am holding up boundaries and sticking with them.

And it's really hard, especially being a person who learned to not ruffle feathers and to be quiet is the safest option. Normally, holding boundaries sometimes requires you to be loud and a little bit aggressive, and that is really hard and scary. But, like, the payoff that comes from it is, like, invaluable. At the end of the day, it is.

And I also think something I'm taking from this is, like, daddy gang watching this and listening to this, like, please put yourself in Christopher's shoes right now of, like, the little kid who is, like, there in Maryland struggling, the person that's a man sitting in front of me today. Like, when you. When your, like, human instinct is like, ooh, like, should I go, like, just quickly? Look, imagine if it was you. Imagine if you were sitting in this chair across from me begging people, please do not violate me again. I have been violated enough. I was violated in that experience. I was taken advantage of in that experience. I felt uncomfortable. I couldn't say no. I'm saying no now. Please do not. Just for your entertainment at home, quickly go peak. Because it literally is going against everything in humanity that we're talking about is like, have some fucking respect, because guess what? You would fucking want it to, Zachary.

You would. You would. And I don't want the world to make me small again. I just found out how to be big. Like, with this platform. For the first time in my adulthood, I have tried to make myself small my entire life. Since things started happening when I was 14 and 15, I learned be quiet and be small, and that's how you'll be safe. And over these past four years on social media, I finally learned how to be big. And I can feel the world trying to make me small again, and I can't let that happen, and I don't want to because he deserves. He deserves it, bitch.

No, I just, like, I appreciate you saying that. And, like, this conversation has been truly incredible, and I appreciate you coming on here and, like, opening up the amount that you did because I know it's not fucking easy. And like I said earlier, I know this drags in. Like, I've dragged in my family. You're dragging, like, there's so much that goes into it. However, we're. We're seeing one glimpse of what was going on on the Internet right now of someone exploiting you. But you giving us this backstory of, like, this fucking journey you have been on of, like, trying to get to a place where you can be, like, I am standing up for myself. I'm creating boundaries. I'm becoming healthy again. Like, you talking about, like, this has been a journey. And you thinking about, like, God, my sobriety. I'm so proud of you. How many? Five.

You're almost seven in September. It's, like, crazy. I've tripled the time that I was, like, a really crazy alcoholic in sobriety now.

And so congratulations to you, and I appreciate. It's like, you standing up here and saying all these things. It's like, I think all of us can relate to, like, wanting to be that fun spirited, like, untainted self when we were younger. Like, we all know who we are, and half of it, we're not able to show because of judgment, because of people being like, oh, you're being annoying, or you're being this. Why can't we all just fucking accept that? Like, of course we're all annoying.

Yes.

We're all trying to figure it out. We. All of our demons, we all have our trauma, and we're all acting a specific way because of x. So, like, I think the next time you see someone on social media, maybe you think is being a little cringe or annoying, maybe reserve the fucking mean comments and actually ask yourself, like, I wonder what that person has gone through.

Yeah, right, I. Exactly.

Because half the people that are social media personalities are so fucked up. We've all been through fucking crazy shit that we're just looking to connect.

Yes, and that's exactly it. Like, all of us are in this industry or in this job because we wanted to make people happy, because we spoke to people and they responded in a good way, and that's all we wanted to do.

Yeah. And now listen to this entire fucking interview. And this is literally testament. Anytime you go to fucking judge someone, think of this interview and be like, damn, you don't even know the fucking half of it.

Right?

Chris, I love you.

I love you.

You are even better than I could have imagined, as are you.

The reason I am, like, was able to. You keep saying this was such an amazing conversation. And I agree, because the reason I was able to get there and feel this way is because of the, like, space you create and who you are as a person, too. And I write a little bit about that in your birthday. Cardinal. Even before I like, because I wrote it knowing that we had not met.

Oh, my God. You're like, I hope this girl's gonna bitch.

I put a part. Like, I put a part of that in there, too. But I like, after watching so much content of your show, too, is, like, I think for the people who are long time daddy gang and have consumed content of you, like, it shows that you create space that's safe enough to share this stuff and to be vulnerable because you have also been so vulnerable on the Internet for so long.

Thank you.

And you wouldn't be in the position you are now without sharing those hard parts of yourself that open yourself up to be picked apart by people and for people to, like, hate all the different parts of you.

I really appreciate you taking the time. I have been truly so impressed with you, and I cannot wait to see what you continue to do. You're so talented, and we love you here, and the daddy gang loves you, and we so support you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for coming on.

I love.