What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Avril Lavigne just walked into my studio and brought me beer, champagne, and pizza.

And I've never done a podcast before.

Dude, cheers.

It goes tops, bottoms, bottoms, tops, crisps, crocs.

Fuck. I already feel so much cooler. I'm really, really happy you're here. I'm I'm obsessed. The way to kick this off is so fucking good. Daddy Gang, if you're listening to this and you cannot see anything, Avril just walked in here. Pizza, beer, champagne. You're a pretty good guest. Thanks for coming.

So this is your first podcast. What type of Canadian would I be if I didn't show up with beer?

I'm obsessed. I didn't know what to expect. Obviously, I think what's so fun with songwriters and musicians is we don't all the time get to see your personality, so you literally never know what to expect. So it's fun to immediately kick it off and be like, Oh, You're comedy. You know what you're doing, Avril. Okay. First podcast, why don't you usually sit down long interviews?

I usually don't I like interviews.

I get it. If I'm honest. No, it's fine.

It's never been my favorite thing to do, but you seem super cool, so I'm happy to be here.

We're just going to chill for an hour, and hopefully, you don't hate me by the end of this. I promise it's going to be chill. Yeah. You recently just announced that you're going on a North American tour, and you are releasing your Greatest Hits album. How did you decide to do this? It's so iconic and inspiring.

Yeah, so it's like 22 years into my career now, which is super gnarly to even think about. And I'm releasing a Greatest Hits album in June and going on the Greatest Hits tour. And it's pretty great to be going back out on the road and doing one of the biggest tours of my career this far, just off celebrating my catalog. So I feel super stoked and lucky to still be doing my thing and loving it more than ever.

I just like not to freak you out, but I love you. And I grew up loving you. And I used to make the most embarrassing music videos to all of your songs. I have one of the most embarrassing music videos to Nobody's Home. And it's like a little young Alex, fucking depressed, being singing in the corner of my room, six years old, seven years old, eight years old to now, being like, it's dope to be in your presence.

Wow, that's crazy. Thank you. You made music videos? I feel like you need to find that, bring that up and put little clips on TikTok. I need to see that.

See, the thing What funny is, Avril, is my version of a music video compared to the young kids on TikTok now, they're hot and cool and wear cute outfits and know how to do contour. I was fucking busted with my little acne and braces. So they're not cute, okay? They're for my parents to see only and be like, You were so cute, Alex. And Mom, I was hideous. What is the difference when you go on a tour? What is the difference between touring now versus when you first started out?

So on my My first tour, I wanted to be Green Day because I had gone to one of their shows and all of their songs were hit after hit after hit, just like singles. It was just power all the way through. And so on my first tour, I only had three singles, and the rest was just album tracks. And for me, that just wasn't good enough. I wanted every song to be a banger. So I guess I did. I worked super hard to get to this point where now every single song in my setlist as a hit song, a single, been a really big milestone and part of my career. So making a strong setlist is for me, that's the biggest thing that goes into the show. But I think every tour has gotten easier. I've come out of my shell more as a performer. Also, bringing my favorite bands out on the road to open with me, actually my friends. So we can play Like beer pong backstage, skateboard backstage together, have barbecues backstage.

Didn't you have Simple Plan? Yeah.

So Simple Plan opened for me on my first tour back in 2002.

And you had All Time Low, too.

All Time Low are coming out. Oh, my God.

I was so obsessed with All Time Low. I had posted... I was very, very obsessed with them at a point where I was like, this is concerning. I really thought I was going to marry one of them, and then I obviously didn't. I was No, I was obsessed. I would wear skinny jeans, and I would wear skinny-colored jeans.

Where are you from?

I'm from Pennsylvania. Okay. And you're from Canada?

Yeah, I'm from Canada.

What do you do to make it fun on tour? Give me an example.

I like to train with my friends and days off taking the bus to a campsite and going camping, and going and pulling up into an RV site instead of going to a hotel and just sitting there staring at the ceiling like, What is my life? Seeing way too many of No, it's way too long. I just go on Amazon and I get a bunch of fun. I've got a pink cooler that I've just ordered and pink chairs that will sit outside of my bus every day. There will be beer there. I'll have my skateboards out. And then usually my bus is the cool bus because of that. And I have my beer pong table out there. And then everyone just after the show comes my way.

Do you have any pre-show rituals? Are you superstitious at all?

I'm just mellow as fuck in the day because if you think about it, the show is around 9:00 PM, which is why noon feels super early for artists.

I'm so sorry that you're even awake.

I'm so sorry that this interview is at noon. I come walking, I got one eye open. I'm just like, I haven't worked out. I haven't had breakfast. I need to make sure I'm covered here. Oh my God.

I'm sorry about that. Someone came in like, Do you think you can lower the lights a little bit? I'm like, Oh, right. She's not awake. You're literally doing this asleep. You're going to leave and be like, What the fuck did I say on that interview?

My time, even though the interview was at noon, my time was like, 8 o'clock glam.

Stop.

Leave the house at 10:30. I was like, Can we push glam till 9:00?

So not superstitious.

Yeah, no, I think I just... What's important is that I do take care of myself before the show and then do the complete opposite after the show. So it's like, sleep in, hopefully till 3:00 or noon on the early side. And then the show, that is the gym session. It's a 90 minutes set at nine o'clock at night. So that's when I have to give it my all and be awake. But that is actually the flow of my body is to wake up at night, not a morning person. We've made that clear.

Or a noon person. You're like, Why am I here? Can I take a quick nap, Alex? You just talk for the next hour.

You just said, I got to have some pizza.

No, but that makes sense, though, because I think that's if anyone has a nighttime job, you're sleeping in super late.

You have to bring it. It starts, and then we don't go to bed till 6:00 AM because you get off stage, you're wired, you're amped, the adrenaline. And then bus call, busses don't leave until whatever, three o'clock. So it's after the show, we set up a barbecue, have fun, hang out with the bands and all that. And party. For me, that tour bus, that's my home. Again, another fun Amazon order of just Hello the Fuck Kitty, everything. I've got 20 Hello Kitty pillows in the front lounge, and I've got Hello Kitty bedding, Hello Kitty towels, and everything's just pink and fun.

Oh, my God. I didn't even think you would be a Hello Kitty girl.

Yeah.

I would think maybe a lot of blah.

I have a Hello Kitty room on my house.

Oh, your house?

The tour bus is Hello Kitty tour bus, But my room at my house, I have our room. Well, it used to be my bedroom, and it's a Hello Kitty bedroom.

When guys came over, would they be a little freaked out to have sex in that room?

Well, I... Our room? I wasn't There wasn't a lot of guys. Okay, sorry.

If a man-Longer relationships. Right, right, right. If a man.

I mean, there was a stripper pool and the coffee in the little coffee table, and this huge pink velvet couch full of all these stuffed animal Hello Kitty.

Are you getting on this stripper pole? Oh, hell, yeah. Wait, you're good on the stripper pole? Wait, you need to teach me. What the fuck? How did you learn to get on it?

You just have a couple of those I'm winged.

You have a couple beers and you're ready to go, wow, a new talent. I guess if I'd ask you, what's a hidden talent? Would you ever say that or no?

No.

Next time you go to a party and they ask you a fun fact about yourself, you're like, I can rip on a stripper pole. You're welcome. What is one of the craziest fan interactions you've ever had?

I got a wedding dress when I was over in Korea. Bunny was thrown at me on my lap in a bag, and I was like, Oh, what's this? It's warm. And I open it, I'm like, I thought it was a cat. It was a bunny. But we took care of it, made sure it went somewhere safe. And then I had a wedding dress, and I was like, That's cool, but it's weird.

Yeah, because now that woman will never see her wedding dress yet.

No, it was for me, from Wait, what?

I thought you were saying a woman gave you her wedding dress to take and sign. A man gave you a wedding dress?

Yeah, I guess that was a super forward way of proposing. But I have that effect on people.

I'm going to have literally, literally. We'll get to that. Your style. Can we talk about this for a minute? Because, again, when I was younger, I just remember so many moments in early 2000s, trends were dictated by you, Queen, your style was and is everything. If you had to pick three essential wardrobe items that are your staples, what would you pick?

A big hoodie Just an oversize black hoodie, bondage pants, and military boots, combat boots.

Okay, so that has changed because when I I was younger, Avril. I remember it was the necktie. The necktie. But you don't understand. I would look at you and be like, Oh, my. This is the fucking coolest thing ever that she's wearing a necktie. So I would venture into my older brother's room. But he went to a Catholic prep school. So he had ties that were wide as fuck and ugly and hideous. And that's the only tie I could find. And I would wear it around my house with a little wife beater. And I really- Oh my God. Stop. That is so cute. I really thought I was doing something, and I hope those photos never surface. But the necktie was iconic. And then the little... The sweatbands on your wrist you used to wear, which were so cool.

Yeah, it's crazy. I've been thinking about the tie a lot lately, and the wristbands, the sweatbands with the Skaterboy star, which is my tattoo right here. And I'll probably wear those on stage because I used to wear them all the time. All the time? Yeah. That's so fun. Maybe I'll wear the necktie on stage.

Please. Honestly, do it for me. I will literally have a revival in my soul. I need to come to a show. I'm so obsessed. But that would be epic. I think everyone, any time we see you in a tie, it just brings us back to our childhood, and it makes us happy.

It was so crazy. My first show, so I was 17, and it was... I don't know where it was. It was in Vancouver somewhere. And it was a warm-up show they were putting together for me. And it was in a little club, and it was the first real show. And I remember being up in my dressing room and looking out onto the street and seeing all the fans lined up to come in, and the girls, they were dressed like me. They had on the white tank top and the tie and stick straight hair and black eyeliner. And I was like, what? I was like, this is crazy. And from the first show, from the beginning, it was a thing. And pretty cool, too, to see every album, my image changed a bit. So under my skin, my second album, I put black hair in and was wearing the bondage pants. And then all the girls front row, the blonde hair with the black underneath, the bondage pants, black eyes. The Bondage Pants, Black Eyes, the third album, The Best Damn Things, showing up the show with the pink streak in the hair and just like...

I will never forget that. Trust me, I thought about doing it. My mom was like, Absolutely fucking not Alex. I'm like, Shit. Were you always super confident to wear whatever you wanted to wear your whole life?

Yeah. It just came together. I didn't think about it or anything. Obviously, when I was younger, I was just dressing in whatever my mom bought. And then when I got into high school, I was like, okay, I like hoodies and skateboarding clothes. And I started skateboarding and was into West 49 and vans and I started wearing really baggy pants. And my parents were just like, are you going to be dressing like a boy? When I went out to New York City and was meeting with important people and writing songs in the studio, they were like, Can you dress up a little better? But what was awesome was when I got signed by LA Reid, I was sitting in his I was 16, and he just looked at me and he was taking a meeting with my mom and I, and he was like, You know, you have your own thing going on, girl. Usually, we have people come in and you have to figure out what your style is, and we help you. And whatever. And he's like, You got your own thing going on. You just keep doing you. And I think that was awesome.

I'm so glad he did that. Probably looking back, that did instill confidence in me, but also I didn't care. I was going to dress that way anyway.

No, but that's a great thing to know that someone didn't try to change you. That was probably in a position where if they asked you to, I'm sure your mom and you would have looked each other and been like, fuck, is this what we have to do to make it in this industry?

And normally, especially at that time with all bubble gum pop was so big, they probably would have put me in something sexy, cute, pink, girly, frilly, mid-drift. And that wasn't not my vibe. There's definitely times that photo shoots. I'd show up at whatever magazine to shoot, and they wanted to put me in stuff that I was very afraid of, like blouses. And I was just like, No. So you'd have to have a word with them. The manager would be like, She has her own style. Then I'd pull out my skateboarding book bag and dump my ties and my spike bracelets on the floor and be like, Is this for my stuff? So we had to go back and forth, but it was a little bit of a fight, and I had to always push for that. But it worked out pretty good.

It worked out phenomenally. I want to go back a little bit to your childhood, because I think when you're looking at someone so famous and so successful, it is fascinating. You grew up in Canada in a really small town with 5,000 people. How would you describe your childhood before you were famous? How would you describe your childhood before you were famous?

Normal as fuck. And I'm grateful for that because I came out at a really young age, and I'm glad that I had a normal, steady, solid childhood. I played a lot of sports. I was on the hockey team. I was going to say- The guy's hockey team.

How the fuck did you get onto the guy's hockey team?

Well, I just wanted to play hockey, and it was like the guys, there wasn't a girls league. So I was able to play from novice to Peewee, and then Peewee is when there's body contact, and that's when I wasn't allowed to play anymore. But But then by that time, I was in grade nine, my first year of high school, and they had a girls team in the high school. So I tried out for that. I almost said audition. You audition. I tried out for the girls team in high school, and I made it. And then I blew it by going to our first tournament out of town and getting expelled from school and kicked off the Out of the tournament because someone got caught drinking in the hotel room and someone ratted her out.

No, Avril.

And my parents were just so mad at me. It was like, I did drugs or something, which I've never done, by the way. And it was like, I had done something so terrible. It's like, who cares? Of course, I'm away from my parents. I'm in a hotel. We're in Toronto, the big city, doing an offset tournament. And yeah, I got busted. So I had to go home. My parents were like, We're I'm going to send you to the Catholic school, everyone. And I was just like, Oh, what have I done?

Stop. Did you make friends with all the guys when you were playing with guys, or were you the odd man out and people would make fun of you?

My whole life, I've been friends with guys all in school, and we would get in real fights. I'm a good blocker. That was my move. I'm a blocker. Block the punch. And yeah, so I played a lot of sports, hockey in the winter, baseball in the summer. I was a pitcher. There was a lot of... Because I was so into hockey, there's a lot of rollerblading. So I was rollerblading around town, building forts, skateboarding, and all that stuff. Yeah, I hung out with the guys, and then I left home, had a band, lived on a tour bus with guys. And still, to this day, I'm just... Most of my friends are guys.

Did your parents ever Or be like, Why don't you have any girlfriends? Should we invite Rebecca over? Let's try this. Let's give it a whirl, average. Or did they not give a shit?

My parents were really strict with me. If I had a guy over who was just my friend, even, there was no bedroom. It was the middle floor. They monitored it. It was dinner. But all we wanted to do anyway was run around and roller blade, skateboard, play mini hockey.

I played hockey, too, and my brother played hockey. You did? Yes. What position? Well, first of all, I was not that great. I ended up going and playing soccer, but I was on offense, and my dad works for the NHL. So my whole life hockey, it was... Oh, my God. We were a full hockey. That's cool. Oh, my God. It was cool. But we were like... It was weird, I think, in Pennsylvania, you're lucky. Canada, it was like, that's the sport. But in Pennsylvania, people were like, why do you have your children playing freaking hockey? And my dad was like, it's just the best sport ever. They just trust us. And so we had roller hockey, mini hockey in the basement on the carpet.

And you take the sticks and burn them over the stone.

Oh my God. And I think people are like, what are you guys doing in your basement? We're like, We're playing mini hockey. Living our best lives. Literally. I'm thriving. And it was so fun.

No one will ever fuck with us when we're older.

But it's cool that you played hockey because I feel like it's obviously a sport that makes you really fucking tough. It does. And you just learn to basically get the shit beaten out of you on the ice. And then you're like, oh, it's normal day.

And it's freezing cold. All the pads. And you wake up and just skating alone is so hard. It's like gnarly cardio. And then if you're actually playing and stick handling and shooting and you're out there and the game is happening, skating is its own thing. Oh, my God.

I remember, because my husband is from LA, and I so badly just want to take him ice skating, even if it's during Christmas time around the little fucking pond. Okay? Because he's so He's good at sports, but he does not know how to ice skate. So I'm like, watch me backwards skate. Watch me skate around. Watch me do drills, bitch.

Are you awesome on skates?

I'm really good.

Me, too.

We should go skate. Yes, let's do it.

We're in a life. I can skate backwards, cross over, all of it.

It is a pretty good skill to have. And I feel like it's a flex when a guy takes you ice skating during the holidays and you're like, Oh, you think I'm going to have to hold your hand or hold on to the rails the whole time? Bitch, I'm going to be holding you. I know Matt's going to be falling, and I'm going to be holding him. I just don't know if I want to take him because I may get the ick, so I just need to be careful. I know.

I was like, Make sure he's ready for that.

No, literally. So you had a pretty normal upbringing, which I'm happy you're talking about because it's like you're playing sports, you're hanging.

I babysat. I shoveled driveways. I mowed lawn. Oh my God. And did the whipper-snipper. The weed Whacker.

The whipper-snipper.

I put flyers out. Stop. I cleaned houses. You did it all? I worked at a fried chicken place. How was that? And then I got fired.

Again? Were you drinking on the job?

No, I'm a really good hard worker. I actually asked, requested for some time off to perform somewhere, and he used it against me.

Oh, my God. He must feel so fucking dumb now.

He's like, Fuck. And then I wrote a song about it on my first album.

Wait, which one?

It's called My World.

And that's about the chicken shop you worked at?

Got fired by a fried chicken ass all in a small town, Nathanya.

That was about him.

Shut the fuck up. And I heard after they took the lyrics of my song and framed it and put it up in the store.

You're like, Fuck. Fuck you.

I could have used the extra $20.

That's fucking epic. I didn't realize that. Now I need to go back and listen to that song again because sometimes when you're listening to songs, you're like, Oh, did they just make that up? Or like, that you literally lived that. You got fucking fired from those chicken fuckers.

I talk about my hair is actually so curly. No one knows that. I have a really frizzy curly hair. What? I didn't discover the flat iron until the making of my first album. So on that song, also, So My World, I talk about how I would braid my hair in a zillion braids, and it would take me all friggin day. Are there lyrics? Because it would take me five hours. So I would just braid my hair in little braids because there was no flat iron back then, or definitely not in my small town. Then when I came to LA, I was working on my album. My producer took me to get a blow dry, and I was like, What?

This is a life-changing.

Do you know what I have done? I used to shower and wash my hair, put on a toque. Stop. What you guys call a beanie. In the States, a beanie. Just let my hair try to dry flat. I couldn't get it straight.

You're trying to literally pin it to your head.

So then she got me, my producer got me a flat iron, actually, for my birthday, and then it was game over. Everyone just thinks I have stick straight hair.

I was just like, never.

Will I ever want curly hair again? It's so straight.

It's so straight. Like your first album, I remember because my hair is so naturally straight that I was like, oh my... So girls used to make fun of me in middle school being like, your best friend is your straightener. And I was like, I don't own a straightener because my hair was so straight. So when I saw your first album, I was like, oh, my God, she's a straight hair girl like me. Now I'm realizing, Averal.

Dude, if you saw my hair, it's like poof. It's so curly. I hate it. But my friends like it.

I bet it's so gorge. I bet you actually look amazing. But I get when you're younger, Anything you have, you're like, I want the opposite. I don't want this shit.

But my hair is so thick, so when I do get a blow dry, it's last for a week.

When I'm thinking now of how normal your upbringing was, what do you think people in your town thought when you started getting famous?

I don't know.

Do you think it was a surprise to people?

Okay, so around school, Okay, so when I was 14, I won a contest to sing on stage with Shania Twain in Ottawa. So it was a few hours away from my small town. And I sang on stage with her, and then I came back and I was famous in my high school. I was walking down the hallway. I was like, A singer girl. She's the singer girl. That's several. So everyone knew me as the singer girl.

You got famous at 17 years old. Yeah. Like, big, big thing. So I'm a high school dropout. Love, love. Me too.

I went to New York and I started making my first album. My friends were all doing, what are those things called? The exams.

The shit I didn't have to do?

Is it an exam? Like, I said to you. What's the thing at the end? Yeah, an exam. Yeah, I didn't have to do that. I would make fun of them and I'd be like, Thank God, I don't have to do this. I'm just in New York gaining 10 pounds eating McDonald's and pizza every day. No shit. That's all my brother and I did because he came to Shaprone. Oh my God. And so, yeah. But all I was thinking at the same time was, This better work. You're like, Fuck.

That's better work. Because I feel like you're a quite confident person. Did you have any insecurity to your priorities back then? No.

I was just tomboy, liked hanging out with the guys, loved music. And then when I was younger, I was singing in church, singing at the country fairs around town. That's like, those were the options in front of me. Then when I got into high school, 14, 15, I was like, not really feeling these songs anymore. So I went through a phase where it was like, I could have gone. I was at a crossroads. It could have been like, Okay, I'm not going to sing anymore. Or I was just like, I don't want to do these events anymore. So I started turning them down, and it was like, What are we doing here? And that forced me to write my own songs. So I sat in my bedroom and was playing the guitar. I had no idea what I was doing. I knew one chord, but I was going to figure it out. And so I started definitely writing for sure at 14. And I know that because one of my songs I wrote.

Oh, my God.

Really, I'm 14 years old. No. I'm not that old. That's one of the fucking lyrics in the song. So I was like, I know I was writing by 14. That's amazing. Yeah. And then I got into high school, and then I discovered Green Day and Noah Facts, Blink 182. And I was like, yes. And got an electric guitar, wore it low, and and just started writing my own songs. And that's where it all shifted for me, and then ended up performing again and making my way to New York City, getting a record deal by 16, and was so young, no one could fathom that I wanted to write my own songs. So that was the biggest challenge on the making of the first album, and that the producers, they naturally went to polished and And fluffy and this and that. And I was just like, no. And it was really... I worked with a million people on that album, and then I finally connected towards the end with a couple of producers that then understood. They sat there and listened to me and heard what I was going for. We wrote the songs together, and it was a really perfect collaboration where it was like, okay, there's this young girl.

She has a vision. We're going to work with her and help her get there. And they were all extremely talented people, too. And so I fought for that, got it, and developed my own sound and style, and the rest is history.

That first sound and style, I remember I was reading somewhere, you really described it as pretty angsty. And you coming across as a quite chill, happy person, were you actually feeling a lot of those emotions? Because some of the songs are really fucking sad because trust me, I cried to them when I was up. So where were those feelings coming from?

I'm a really big feeler, and I feel everything. I've gone through... I've obviously experienced all different types of emotion. When you're in high school, when you're going in that age, you're really trying to... You're feeling, having a crush for the first time or being disappointed, feeling neglected, or being vulnerable and opening your heart to someone, your first breakup. And the excitement of something new. There's so much to tap into and to write about. I was never really thinking about it. It would probably just end up being that day, what I was feeling. There's definitely songs like Losing Grip. I'm often like, I listen to the lyrics and I'm like, and I knew it when I was writing them. Where's this shit coming from? Is this my past life?

Were your parents ever like, what the fuck, Avril? Are you okay?

No, I'm not Not really. But they didn't like the swearing. They were a little like the clothes, but they get it. My mom, when I was two, she was like, she knew I was going to be a singer, came home from church. She's like, Holy shit. Holy God. She said, I came home from church singing, Jesus loves me or Jesus loves you. And she's like, oh, my God, she can sing. And so my parents were so supportive. And obviously, I wouldn't be here without that support.

Were you always confident getting on a stage? I feel like you were. You didn't- Yeah. Because I- I always have this weird dream, though, where I'm on stage and I can't remember the words.

Why have I been doing that lately?

Wait, stop.

But no, I'm confident on stage.

It's like- You never even thought about it. It's like nothing. Yeah. That's incredible.

Okay, and then when I sang with Shania on stage, it was in front of 20,000 people in this arena packed. I was 14. All I felt over my whole body was like, I walked out on stage and I was just like, oh, my gosh. This is what I really want for me. And then two years later, three years later, I sold out that arena and played my own show.

Do you remember how you felt?

I was like, This is crazy. This is insane.

And when you would have those moments of, Holy fuck, would you turn to your mom? Who was your go-to person to freak out with.

I still have them all the time. Wow. If I'm just walking, I hear myself, like, out in public, and I'm like, I was going to say, and I'm in a mall, and then I hear myself, but I'm not really in a mall. I don't know where I am. Maybe it's an outdoor mall. I don't know. I love wherever I am, and I hear myself on the radio. It's definitely like, damn, bitch. You made it. You did. Small town. No connections. I don't know how I did It was supposed to happen, obviously. It was. A lot of hard work.

But it's really interesting to hear you talking about your songwriting process because you're so talented. Thanks. And hearing you be like, I'm writing Losing Grip, and I'm a little like, what the fuck am I? Where did I Did I experience this? Nobody's home. I felt that way, too.

But I was also like, Okay, I'm going to write this about this girl that I know, or the words start, and I'm like, Oh, I'm going to take it in this direction, and it's not about me, and I'm tapping into what I know somebody else went through.

Interesting. How did you feel about all the fame and attention?

I think I was fine with it. And my whole life is weird because of it. Everything I do, you're in public, so you just do weird things. There's people walking, so you just turn, or you're not just going to stand there. If I was in an airport waiting for a suitcase, you're going to stand behind the pillar. You're not just going to stand. It's all like that. And it never bugged me or anything. I just got it. I was like, Okay, this is how things go now.

That's a really healthy way to look at it because I feel like that's a unique perspective. I feel like a lot of people feel like they don't have autonomy over their life once they get famous, and you're chilling.

I get followed every time. Not every time, but I get followed when I leave my house. I don't know how I try to go different ways and stuff like that. And so I like to go to the grocery store and I like to do all that stuff, but I have to be in the head space to energetically handle it, which I'm totally fine with, too. Really? Do you really want your picture taken like this if you walk out right now? Are you okay with it? You know what I mean? It's like, you have to think about that.

I am really pleased by your answer. There is no right or wrong answer. I've had musicians sit here and be like, I'm such an introvert. It's really fucking hard. I hate it, and I wish I could just write songs and upload it and never in public. That's awesome to know that you're someone that's like, I don't really care. It's actually chill.

It is what it is. And I learned it and how to move with it. And it's like, I would never complain about it because what I get to do is fucking awesome. And that's part of it. How fucking cool is that? That people know who I am. That means my music got heard.

So fucking true. What do you think people, if anything, misunderstood about you from your career and you growing up in the spotlight?

So I think when people meet me, I think they're like, Oh, my God, you're so nice. You're so sweet. No, I've had ask people to guys are like, here's more like... I I don't know what the word is, soft, feminine, more girly or something. I think people, because of my... Maybe my music videos, think I'm like, All the time, and I'm not. I'm actually like, Well, what do you think? What is your take on me?

Yeah. I mean, just now trying to think about it, because I think when you were younger, and I was younger, I channeled like, Oh, this girl's sad and angry.

I know. It was like, angry, Avril.

Yeah. And I think that was like, but now it's really incredible to get to sit across from you and hear you be like, some of these songs I was writing, there was a girl I knew, and I was writing about her. And then it really wasn't that deep. My boss fucking fired me from my chicken spot. And so I'm like, fuck you. I wish I got my extra 20 and my other paycheck. I do think, though, I don't take back, though, I loved how deep those songs were and angst they were because I felt like a lot of people needed that type of music back then. I think you're right. There was so much pop and princess, and it was like, let's shake our bodies and beat. And I'm like, my crush that doesn't even know I exist broke up with me, and he didn't even know he broke up with me, but he didn't look at me today. So I'm heartbroken, and I'm going to go listen to Losing Grip, and I'm going to fucking cry. I needed that. I don't need a shake your body and dance and be happy. Sure, maybe on a Friday night.

But I, in that era, needed that depressing-esque music. Is that fucked up to say? Yeah. But it's nice to know you weren't depressed, I guess.

I went through it all, and I was a teenager and feeling the feels, and I was definitely in emo and going through it and feeling it all. I don't want to write a song about being happy because it's going to be cheesy and not that cool. I'm going to do that right now. I'm like, I don't know what to write about because it's just like, that's the thing. It's like an intense emotion. Like, Head above Water was a really dark, heavy song for me. Like, near-death experience. Like, one of the hardest things I've ever gone through in my life. But like, really easy to write about. I was literally like, laying there in bed, like, I'm dying and I'm accepting it. Oh, there's a song. Got to tell it. And I literally Grab my phone and the song channels me.

Are you referencing when you got sick? Yeah. Okay. And that was for what, two plus years of your life? You were in bed?

Yeah. It was like, it was bedridden for a couple of years. And then you got stronger coming out of that. And that's something that rocks you pretty hard. But I'm really grateful to be on the other end of that. And so that was a really... I I'll think twice about riding the dirt bikes out in the woods on the East Coast next time. Because it was Lyme disease. Yes. All I did was outside. And it's like...

But I get what you're saying. You're like, then you're laying there and you're like, Yeah, I can write a depressing song right now because this fucking sucks. But it's like, waves of emotion that you're tuning into.

I've gone through a lot in my life in love, tons of ups and downs, and I've definitely written the angry songs and the sad songs and going through something hard in life. It's easy to sit down at the piano, especially that instrument really pulls it out of me. But on my last album, Love Sucks, it was much lighter, even though it was like a little boy bashing and poking fun at love and stuff. I like putting a twist on my songs now where it's It's funny. I'm just rolling my eyes at myself not working out again or something and just having fun with it. I'm in a phase in a place right now today where I'm writing. I don't really want it to be that dark. I say that means nothing at all because tomorrow I could write a poohoo song.

I think that's something that I- You just never know.

It's like when I I get in the kitchen and I'm cooking. I don't know what I'm cooking, and it turns into what it turns into. I got a canvas I love to paint. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like, Oh, that looks cool. That could go on the wall. That one, not so much. It's when you write a song, sometimes You can be intentional with an album, go in and be like, This is my vibe, or you can just wing it, write, and just see what comes out and gets put together.

I think that some people may not know. I love that you said, when you walked into those meetings, people were like, How is a 15, 16-year-old girl trying to write? Here, let us give you writers and just go sing, sweetie. And I think you're such an incredible... I know you're such an incredible writer that I know one of the fun facts online that everyone still can't get over is that you wrote Breakaway for Kelly Clarkson. And that's a perfect example of you're so talented. Do you remember writing that song? And was it about a heartbreak?

The lyrics used to be, I grew up in a small town, and when the snow would I would just stare out my window. Oh my God. I'm actually going to probably will perform that Breakaway, Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway on the Greatest Hits Tour.

That would be fucking amazing. But how did you decide to get rid of it?

I just wasn't feeling it. I'm so glad it went to her. She killed it. It was a massive hit for her. It's just being from a small town and taking a chance and going into the big city and going after your dream.

There is a crazy rumor out there about you that I obviously have to ask about. I always ask people when they come on my show, Oh, what's the craziest rumor that you've ever heard about yourself? I guess I could just first ask you, What would you answer before I ask you?

Oh, yeah, that one. I know what you're talking about. I mean, it's just funny to me. On one end, everyone's like, Oh, my God, you look the exact same. You haven't aged I don't know what to say. But then other people are like, there's a conspiracy theory that I'm not me.

There is a... No.

Cool. Honestly, it's not that bad. It could be worse. I feel like I got a good one. But is it...

Okay.

I don't think it's negative or anything like creepy.

It's like, we're good. Avril, this conspiracy theory about you is a little creepy. Come on. Oh. No. Yeah, I don't know. It could be worse. It could? Yeah. No, you could be getting online books.

I mean, obviously, I am. It's so dumb.

To people that don't understand, just to give people context, there's a conspiracy theory that Avril Lavigne is no longer with us. And there is a woman named Melissa who took over. And you, I can't even say seriously, you sitting across from me, you are Melissa. And there are conspiracy theories that run so fucking deep. Does it annoy you that there will be people that comment on this episode being like, That's Melissa. That's not.

When did it start? My second album? I don't even know. I think from the beginning-ish, second album. I don't know.

And why do you think people think that?

I think that they done that with, Are there artists? I'm not the only one. I think other people have that.

I feel like yours is really prominent.

Oh, I mean, I feel like you might believe that.

I'm honestly the one that started the conspiracy. I'm one of those freak bloggers that's like, I went undercover to interview Melissa. Oh my God. No, but it's fucking crazy. And I just have empathy for you, but it's good, again, to know you don't give a fuck where people are like, Oh, Melissa showed up today. I'm like, I remember being like, What are people talking about. And then I went and started looking and like, oh, people are fucking insane. So you don't care. We're over it. Okay. So your name is Avril Lavigne. Yeah. I knew you have to leave I did. I'm telling you what's crazy is you haven't aged. I'm staring at you and I'm picturing you with your like, auburn hair. And I'm like, oh, my God, you literally look the same from when you were younger. You're beautiful. Thank you. Let's talk about your love life. Your career exploded when you were so young. Were you still able to go on dates with guys and then not be freaked out by your success?

I never really did the dating thing. I was always in a pretty major relationship.

Your relationship, girl? Yeah. What are you like in a relationship.

I'm fucking awesome. I would date me.

I love that.

I cook. I'm a really big cook, really big into the house and decorate and And I have a lot of fun with that. So yeah, I'd always have people over at my house, throw parties, cook big, huge dinners at the dining room table. I'm going to order that keg sand. There is going to be a full bar. We are to have beer pong and stay up until the sun comes up. It's going to be a good time.

And there will be Hello Kitty and stripper calls.

And there will be matching tattoos involved. All of my tattoos were drunk tattoos, and they'd be boring if I was sober.

All of them are drunk.

So let's finish this beer, and then we'll call my tattoo art. And then we'll call my tattoo art. We'll go to Shamrock on Sunset.

Okay, so all these are drunk tattoos?

Yeah, the Skaterboy star was my first tattoo. I was 19, and then...

Do your parents have tattoos?

All my tattoos are... Oh, I have tattoos on my hips. No, I think I'm the only one in the family, really, with a bunch of tattoos. My dad had a couple. Okay.

What is the hardest lesson you've ever learned about love?

I mean, I definitely went through my jaded phase with my previous album called Love Sucks, and I had gone into place of, All right, I'm just going to focus on myself. I'm going to move to Malibu. I'm going to build my own life for me, and I'm not going to wait for a guy or rely on a guy to do that. I definitely felt like I had the wind knocked out of me. I had been through enough. It was definitely like I was in a place of never trust a guy again. And just you're going to have to rely on yourself. But I don't feel that way today, thankfully.

That's amazing. Yeah. Have you ever been cheated on?

Have I been with a male before? No. Then the answer is yes. Much as anyone's ever fucked me over, which has happened a shit ton, I've always just been the classy bitch and taken the high road and kept it to myself.

I appreciate that. I think a lot of people stay in things because they're nervous to start over. I think that's a really normal feeling, especially for women. It's like...

Yeah, people are fearful. Fearful.

Do you have any advice of how to know when to move on and how to get yourself out of something that's maybe comfortable, but you know you need to be on your own and be single?

It's hard when you're in something because you're in it. So it's a big deal to leave a relationship to change is hard, to have to step out. It requires a lot, and some people can't see that clearly. It's always easier once you're on the other end. But if you're not happy, you're never going to be happy, and life is short, and you should just really get out as soon as possible so you can move on. Then have a better future for yourself. Some people like to have something that they're leaving and going to. Sometimes you have to take that leap of faith and just trust that if you're not happy, it's not a healthy relationship. It's not a good situation. Just to get out. It's okay to have time on your own in between if you need it and just believe and hope that something greater is out there for you. And if not, you're better off on your own than someone draining the fuck out of you.

Facts. Thank you. Are you seeing anyone right now? Now I know even if you were, you're never going to fucking tell me. Maybe. Okay, what do you look for in a partner?

Do you remember this year?

Kind of. Okay, let's try it again. Fuck. You're avoiding my question. Okay. Top, bottoms, bottoms.

Top, Chris Cribs.

Okay, do it again. Do it again. Okay. Top, bottoms, bottoms, tops, Chris Cribs. Okay. That's It's pretty good.

And are you a beer drinker?

I am when I'm like, whether I'm outside for summer. I'm not drinking beer, usually if it's winter, but if it's summer. I like to drink it with Matt if I'm sitting outside with my dogs. It's a chill drink. If I'm like, Oh, I don't want to be drinking tequila tonight, I will drink beer. And also in college, are you kidding me? I was drinking Maddie's like a freak, and it was bad, and beer ponging and everything.

So any Day, anytime, anytime in California, you could be a beer drinker. Absolutely.

Exactly.

Pennsylvania- You should come to my house in Malibu. We'll have a beer day and play beer pong.

And you'll answer some of my questions off camera.

Yeah. Oh, honey, If you only knew.

You're giving us blue balls. Okay, so you may be seeing someone. What do you look for in a partner?

So I think the most important thing is I mean, someone that you're compatible with because you could be two different great people. But if you're not compatible, you're not going to get along. So you're going to argue. So compatibility. Obviously, it all just sounds cliché. Someone that is trustworthy, because if you don't have that, you're just never going to feel grounded in the relationship, and you're going to be spinning. So that's just not healthy. I'm looking for a healthy relationship is ideal. Duh. But do we really have to say these things are so simple and cliché and basic? But that's what you need. No, it's true. You need compatibility, trust.

Do you have a type?

I don't think I have a type, but someone who's at least like... I think someone who's like me, who's sporty, got a little rough around the edges, likes to have a good time, but is a solid. I need someone who's a solid that I can lean on to.

Oh, my God. Would you ever date an athlete? What about a hockey player? No. You're like, They're too... No. What about a guy from Canada that's in the NHL? Come on. Wait, that's fucking perfect. No? We're done with the rappers. Did you ever date Taiga? You're like, Get out of here. Wait, does it annoy you that every time you upload something with Tyga, people are like, Is this your announcement that you're dating?

Or you don't care? I didn't Google myself. Is that what it says?

Yes, Melissa. It says that. You're like, Bitch, you really believe it? I promise I don't. What does it take for a guy to impress you on a first date?

I think I've changed a lot in my expectations and what I am looking for because I've learned through my experiences and just I'm into something that's just stable, healthy, fun, just well-rounded.

What?

I'm like, This shit just sounds super cheesy. That's why I don't write love songs.

Averal, this is good. This is like therapy. You can totally be happy and say happy thoughts, but then please keep writing bangers that make me cry. Although, Girlfriend was not pop... Well, that was not happy.

That was actually dark. It was just sassy and cocky. I don't like your girlfriend. I think you need a new one. I could be your girlfriend.

Oh, my God.

I wrote that fucking song in two minutes. That chorus, literally two minutes. I was putting my book bag on, leaving the studio. It was 11:00 at night, and I was like, Play me a riff, because we were borrowing... We had this amazing Les Paul, and I was talking to Luke, and I was like, Yo, play me something like punk rock right now. And he's like,. And I was like, Hey, you, I don't like your girlfriend. And we're like, No way. And he's like, Think you need a new one? And I was like, Hey, you, I could be your girlfriend. Literally, he puts the drums to it. Two minutes, wrote I got it. I put it on a CD. I got a CD, put it in my car, and I took it home. I was like, This is going to be the song of the summer. It was. And I knew it. And my body has done that to me with my happy ending. I We were in the studio, made a song. I came in after I was done singing it, sat down. They played me the song, and I was like, I just got this entire feeling over my body.

And I just like, I can't explain it. I was like, It was like I knew it was big, but I wasn't like, This is a hit. I didn't talk like that. But I was like, This is going to be like... I could feel it. I knew it was going to be a big song for me. The same with Complicated, laying in the grass in California, one of my first trips, and around the orange trees, writing with Lauren. And we're working on this song, and I just remember sitting on the floor, and I'm like, I hear this on the radio. I have these really strong feelings with some of my big songs. Do you remember? I never had that feeling with a song that didn't...

That's wild.

Yeah, go to number one.

When you came up with Complicated, was that one where you were actually experiencing it in your life, or you were just like, I just was like, it just felt right, and I came up with this verse and it worked?

I had a couple of weeks or a month with the Matrix, and Lauren and I were just getting blow dries and getting cupcakes at Ralph's, and sitting in the backyard and just talking. Now it's just like, I love Skater Boys, and this is the only type of guy I'm attracted to. I will literally walk down the street and I see someone wearing big fat skate shoes, and I will look twice. So it's like our conversations and then them as a team working musically on stuff and us all getting together and just complicated Skater Boy, I'm with You. Those are the singles off the first album.

Where were you when you wrote I'm with You?

We were sitting on the piano. It was like... That one's heartbreaking. That was one of those days where you're getting in touch with the sad, more depressed self, and that's okay. People really connected with that song, and still to this day, that's one of my favorite songs to perform live. It's fucking powerful. Even to me, 22 years later, I play that fucking shit on stage. I'm seeing people like, We're going from all the pop rock songs. Everyone's fist pumping and losing their shit. I go into that tears. People are moved, and it's like you see all the different emotions. And that's why writing is important to me, because I'm so connected to the I think there's something with me being super authentic in the way that I dressed and wrote the songs and just the way I was and didn't give a fuck and wasn't calculated. It was all at the end of people really were attracted to that and connected with that.

Yeah, because when you look at someone in the industry, you can literally tell. I'm not being rude. It's just obvious when someone has been constructed by these dance moves and this song and this, this. I'm like, you didn't write that song. You wouldn't wear that if the stylist put that on you. You can tell you've been yourself since day one, and you've stuck up for what you believe in, literally from the fashion to your writing to your sound. To your look. Thank God we got you a straightener. Now you're happy.

I want to see your green hair. I didn't want to think about what I was wearing today, and I was like, Oh, my God, you have this really cool sweat line. It's called Unwell. Yeah. That's so cool. I was like, Oh, yeah. I just want to pull up and wear sweats. And instead, I just wore the shirt I was wearing the night before I literally this T-shirt for two days. I'm obsessed.

I know because when I thought you were going to wear sweats, I was like, oh, my God, I would totally give you sweats, but this outfit is so cute.

I will put the sweats on and go home and veg in them for three days. Thank you. You're like, I leave.

No, Avril, I just want to say thank you for coming because I had no idea what to expect, obviously meeting you. I was obviously hoping that we would hit it off because, again, I'm such a huge fan, but it's fascinating. And it was incredible to meet you and to listen to where you came from and your upbringing and your story and how fucking talented you are. I'm sorry. I could listen to you for 10 more hours talk about your songwriting process, because, again, we don't see that that often nowadays. I feel like a lot of people are just very manufactured, and you are such an artist from the start to finish. I think this tour and this album is like, I'm freaking about it, so I can imagine all of your other fans are also freaking. What do you hope they take away from this tour when they come?

It's just like, for the fans that have been with me from day one, it's just like, Even for myself, it's just all the years and all the different eras and all the different phases in our lives from high school to this day to that day, and connecting with the songs. You hear a song and it takes you back. I even hear one of my songs, and it takes me back to that time of my life. It's been so long. It's been 22 years, and I feel like I have another 22 ahead of me. But it's a journey of our lives. It takes us back to high school, to college. This phase, that phase, that relationship, this summer, that summer. And that's the power and beauty in music. It can take you right back there. You can feel it all over again. I think it's just a celebration of life, our lives, and remembering all the good times when music does that. I think the shows are going to be super fun. I'm stoked to be going back out on tour, my seventh world tour. I'm so grateful to be from a tiny little town, playing hockey and skateboarding and to have been able to write music and to have it be successful internationally and to still be doing my thing today.

I'm looking forward to growing, creatively and dipping my toes in the other creative waters and doing a film and turning Skaterboy into a movie and all that other stuff. So I'm super grateful, but I just want everybody to have a good time. And most importantly, I want to have a good time.

Last question. What are the top three favorite songs for you that you're going to be performing? If you had to pick three. Oh, my own songs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're going out there from the album and on this tour, what are your top three favorites to perform? If you had to pick. I know that's hard.

Well, it's funny because there's no new songs. I definitely want to bring a cover song in. I recently just met up with the Green Day Boys and gave them an award at the iHeard Awards. It's seeing them again, I was like, These guys are cool. Dookie was one of the first CDs my brother and I had, and they're celebrating that right now. I definitely want to do a Green Day cover. Girlfriend is really fun. I love I'm with you. My happy ending. So good. And of course, Skaterboy. Skaterboy.

Boom. Avril, thank you so much.

And maybe I'll put the tie on for you. Please. Send me a fucking picture. And you have to come out to the LA show. Please.

Oh, my God. That's when you're going to wear it. Please. Like, literally, please. Like, make me feel so special.

You and your hubby should come to the show. Oh, my God.

We would love to. I would love to come. Thank you for coming show. You can go to bed now. I love you.