Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal. Justin Rutherford. Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover to hide behind.

Detective Weaver said, I'm sure you know why we're here. I was like, What in the world is going on?

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

More, more, more, more, more, It's a challenge of self-care.

And making friends as an adult. We're going to share our struggles. We're going to speak to experts, and we're going to share everything we learn with you. Listen to more better with Stephanie and Melissa on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Call it what it is with Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington, an iHeartRadio podcast.

Hello and welcome to our brand new podcast, Call It What It Is, with Jessica Capshaw.

And Camilla Luddington.

Episode one, baby. This is exciting. This is where it all starts. Yeah. This is where the rubber hits the road. Let's go.

You guys, we are so incredibly excited to actually be sitting here. We've been talking about this for months, a month, a month, but to be sat here with the mics talking to each other and getting into it finally. It's like Christmas morning for me.

It is. And truly, the goal in all of this wild madness and love-festing is to get to know you. We can Can't wait to get to know you. But obviously, before we get to know you and before you trust us, you might want to know a little bit more about us.

Yes.

Here's the thing. You may know us from Grey's Anatomy, where we played Dr. Arizona Robbins and...

Dr. Joseph Aiden Wilson.

We are not those people in real life. We are. We're not. We're not a smart. We have some similarities. We're not at small. No, no, no, no, no, or anywhere else, we might look a lot like those people. We, in fact, are not. There might be some things that you'd like to get to know about us before you trust us and come into the world and the friendship circle and give us your goods. I don't know. Should we tell them a little bit about ourselves?

Yeah, get into it. Let's go.

Yeah. Okay, great. All right. Well, here we go. Here's my story. I live in New York, in the New York countryside, where I come in to work in New York City, as well as other things that I do in New York City. But I'm originally a Midwesterner, and that is a big part of who I am. I would say that it has been a compass for me, actually, my whole life. I come from Missouri, the show me state. I've always... The Show Me Don't Tell Me? Yeah, Show Me, Don't Tell Me. There was some story. There was some figure in history. Sounds a little bit like a flasher.

Sounds like a lawsuit.

A lawsuit? Show Me, Don't Tell Me. I was seeing a trench code and nothing underneath it.

Was that Don't tell me. Don't tell me. That would be a lawsuit.

Well, that would be a lawsuit after the event, perhaps. Anyways, so Midwestern by birth, and Los Angeles, and then New York countryside, New York City, or by day.

Sure.

Anyways, so I live my life with my wonderful husband, Christopher Gavigan, and our four incredible children.

They are incredible. They are actually all incredible.

They're good. I would like to keep them. Luke, Eve, Popy, and Josephine. I am the oldest of 10 siblings. I'm just, obviously, someone you should listen to is what I think I'm trying to say here.

Oh, God.

I know. It's terrible, right?

This is where the people are going to log off the podcast. All right, please guys, stay on. It It might be where it falls apart. This is it. It's been a good ride. I know. Dress.

It was a good ride. Until you said that. We made it through episode one. Can't wait to hear how you do with this.

Okay, I'm going to do great, everybody. I do have to address this, okay? There's been a lot of speculation because my accent has changed over time, that I am not really from England, or I'm faking this accent, or it's like some... I don't know what it is, but it's in the message boards, people. I am born and raised in My family is still all there. I was from a little town called Wokingham, but I have lived now half my life in the US, and I've lived all over. I've lived in New York, I've lived in small towns, Susquehana, Pennsylvania, I've lived in, I guess, New York, Texas, Austin, Texas, and obviously Los Angeles. I feel like I've lived everywhere. Then I moved to Los Angeles and did not become an actress right away. I started waiting tables at a place in Santa Monica. That's where I met my husband. We bonded over absolutely hate our jobs. We were both terrible at them. Then a million years later, here we are, married with two kids. I have Lucas and Hayden. They're both under the age of 10, which is a really interesting time. I'm exhausted.

An interesting could also be a quote. Yes. Code. Interesting as code for- Interesting as code for all the...

Anyone that has kids under 10 listening to this, you know what I'm saying. It's a situation. I've just recovered from pink eye in both eyes. Do you know what I mean? It's there.

Because if you're going to get it in one way, why not get in one? Why not get in two? Why not?

The other eye is jealous. It's like, you got to stop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on, share the wealth. Yeah.

But I also think that I need to say that I... Because this is going to... You guys are going to hear this. I'm a Sagittarius. If you're a Sagittarius, you know that you are blunt. Moving forward on this podcast, what I will say— Sounds like you call it what it is. Is that we naturally do call it what it is. Yes, exactly right. It's It's not in an obnox... I won't say it's an obnoxious way. It's just that we want to be honest. It's hard. We don't sugarcoat it.

No, no, no. You can't have that without trust. I think that you and I both trust each other so much that when we talk about things and we bring an issue up, we know that it will be met with real care. You care very much what happens to me, and I care very much what happens to you. It's great because when we get in the conversations, I also think there's a part of life where I love this expression. I got it from a friend, and it really makes sense to me, which is that sometimes things are sitting squarely in your blind spot, and you really can't see them. It's not your fault. There's something wrong with you. It's just that you haven't turned your head and looked over your shoulder.

You definitely can't see them with your pink eye.

Definitely if you have double pink eye. Double pink eyes.

A hundred %. How are you going to do that? No, it's not happening.

Here's the thing. I've had some fucking problems, and I've called Camilla and be like, damn, what am I going to do about this? Because X, Y, and Z is happening.

Ditto.

Yeah. There will be something she sees so clearly and explains it so well and with such care and compassion. It's like a light bulb goes off. Again, I trust. I know she has my best interests at heart, and it makes it so much easier. It makes my problem seem so much smaller. Also, again, it's like, nobody... Oh, gosh, who wants to be alone in a bad feeling? When you get to reach out and talk to someone about something you're going through, and they can recall an experience that was similar to yours, you just don't feel alone. And there's so much of that aloneness in the world right now. And I think a lot of people feel it. And I absolutely would love to be a part of making sure that no one feels alone in whatever ways that you can. So this is one small step towards making one small step towards creating an opportunity to listen in or call in or be a part of sharing your stuff, whatever that stuff is. It's like come one, come all, because I think that, or we think, that we can handle it.

Yeah, we do. I mean, what I love about my friendship with Jessica, and I think that you guys will hear this on the podcast, too, as time goes on, is that first off, you're Leo, which means that you're very honest.

Very honest, loyal.

When I call her, I don't feel any judgment ever. I've called her with some really interesting shit. I have never, ever, ever felt judged by her. I know that together we can figure it out. Sometimes it doesn't feel that way until the end of the conversation at I get off a phone call with her because even though she's in New York, I'm still calling her every day. It feels like, okay, that release of like, okay, she gets it. We can figure it out. She has my back. She's being honest with me. She's also not a yes person. I in this city, honestly, in the world, there's just so many yes people that surround you, and you have no idea who's real, who's fake, who's going to give it to you straight. I really have always just loved that about you.

What you just said actually is something that I think is so important about what we're hoping to do here is that you and I, for lots of reasons that we'll go into later about our own upbringings, we are people who have We've gotten to this place in our life because we've been able to figure it out. It doesn't mean that it's always been easy, and it doesn't mean that it's always been hard. But no matter what, you and I are both uniquely interested in figuring it out with optimism. But genuinely, I have a lot of people in my life who are like, You can't fucking do it. You can't do that, or this is not possible, or whatever. I'm definitely always the person that thinks, Why not? Why can't I figure it out? Why couldn't I have my first choice? I'm happy with my second choice, if that's what needs to happen, but can we get to a first choice? I love the figuring out of it all, and I think that you do, too. I love that we together feel that everything is figureoutable and therefore can create a space where, again, when you call in or you write in, you're able to express that and be met with some team members or team members or teammates.

We are teammates. We are. But we want a bigger team, and that's what this is about. We want a bigger team.

Last season, Millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of trial. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband, doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind.

They led me into the house. And I mean, it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him.

Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.

I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed. You not just say, I wish he was dead.

He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Daumer.

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

More, more, more, more, more, Beatriz.

You may know us from television.

And now we're here with our very own podcast, More Better with Stephanie and Melissa.

We've known each other for thousands of years. And we've been through it all together. And we are totally killing it. We are literally the best. No notes. Life is great. None of that was true. Jk, JK. Join us on our excellent adventure as we take on topics like listening to yourself.

There were a lot of red flags, and it did take me eight years to get there, but I got there.

The challenge of self-care. This is important because now you're about to be a mom of two kids. And making friends as an adult. We're going to share our struggles just white-knuckling through life, babe. We're going to speak to experts, and we're going to share everything we learn with you. Listen to More Better with Stephanie and Melissa as part of the Michael Duda podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

We need to talk about how we met, Jessica. We were on this very little…

Tiny little show.

Tiny little show. Blink, you could miss it. Grace Anatomy. Grace Anatomy. You played? Who did you play?

I played Dr. Arizona Robin's.

And I played Dr. Josephine Wilson. And we met how many years ago?

I was trying to do the math. A long time ago. Let's just say it.

That's when I was 21.

Yeah. No, a long time ago.

Twelve years ago. I think I think that because we have such a solid friendship now, the assumption is that we have always been friends. We must have met and it was like- Rant into each other's arms. And I was like, Who are you?

I was like, Who are you? I just- Fans going.

Yeah. And it was like, We were just...

Insta friends.

Totally like, Here's my friendship bracelet. Call me.

It was not the case. It was not the case for us. This was not our story. No.

I feel like if we're going to be honest on this podcast and talk about some real shit.

Yeah. Did you like me? We're going to start with- Did you like me? We'll just get into it. When I first met you- Did you like me?

Yeah.

I did not.

I know this is shocking to everyone listening.

I did not like you. I did not not like you. Which the double negative would be.

Here we go. Go on.

Let's get used to, Here we go, because usually when I have a windup, she says, Here we go. Okay, so hold on. So what happened was that when I first met you, I maybe had just had a baby and was coming back to work. And I was feeling very insecure about pretty much everything. And I think that when you are insecure, you're just not to the world, or you doubt everyone and everything around you, but mostly yourself. I think that maybe that was why when I first met you, I couldn't see all of your inner glory, and I was just focused on my own insecure feelings.

Let's get into it. Okay, great.

Let's call it what it is. Let's call it what it is. In calling it what it is, I might have met you very soon after a pregnancy that I had just had my second sweet baby I was back at work after a truly... That was not a long maternity leave for me. So maybe like, I don't know.

No, you left the hospital and you Ubered to set. I Ubered to the table read. Yeah, Ubered to the table read.

I was like, We got this. I got this. I got this. I can do it all. I might have shown up to set, and the people were on Twitter about some beautiful new woman coming to the show. That was me. Yeah, it was me. I think we got that part. I figured they could probably jump ahead and know that that was the part. Anyways, so beautiful new woman coming. I think you came in with another guy. Do you remember him? I came in with a whole intern class. I only remember two of you.

Okay, there were five of us.

I think it was you and Jessie. Jessica, you were... What? That was Sarah Drew. I could be wrong about these things.

There are Grey's Anatomy fans right now screaming at this podcast.

That's okay, guys. Guess what? Call it what it is.

I can be wrong, and we can still move on. I came in with an intern class.

Okay, you came in with an intern class. Fine. You came in, beautiful young woman coming in, everything else. I might have just had a baby. Maybe I wasn't feeling my sharpest or bestest ever. I think that these things can happen where all of a sudden I was looking across at this, again, beautiful young woman and not feeling myself. I was like, I don't know that I'm going to like her. I'm not sure that I'm going to like her.

Okay. I did not know that. I was just came in looking gorgeous, minding my own business. Yeah, I know. Then it, I realized quickly that you didn't like me. Let's call it the burger truck incident of 2012.

Burgergate. Burgergate. That is really where the story should start.

That's where it should start. Because, listen, in my defense, Shonda Rimes, it's common on sets to get a food truck to celebrate certain...

A Friday.

A Friday. The 200...

The end of the episode.

Yes, yes. And there was a lovely burger truck, and I thought, Oh, I hadn't seen. I hadn't seen a food truck yet on set. I snapped a picture of the truck and was like, I'm going to post it on Twitter and tag Shonda and say, Thank you for the burger truck. Which is very polite. That's so nice of you. Which is very slight. That is really nice. Someone wasn't a fan of it.

What happened after you posted the picture? Yeah, so... How did you know that I didn't like it?

Should we just be honest?

I mean, that's what we're here for.

Let me paint the picture for everybody. I'm sitting minding my own business. The picture has been posted. We're sitting in cast chairs, and Justin comes in, and she's like, You posted the picture!

And I was like, Oh my God. It might have been fire breathing.

And you were not happy because you- Tell me what the picture looked like, Camilla.

That you posted.

Okay, the picture in your mind or the picture on Twitter?

No, we can find it. The Let's talk about what it is.

My mistake. A slither of Jessica Capshaw to the side.

What was I doing in the picture?

You were eating. You were eating.

Was it a lovely picture of a beautiful young woman eating? You were maybe double-fifting a burger.

I don't know what was going on. I was concentrating on the truck.

I was going to eat that burger in one bite.

Yeah.

Which you did. I probably did. I scurped that burger in the back of a picture that would be, I think, probably considered and probably I know you and how you consider pictures that are posted. You highly considered that photo. You looked great in that photo.

I didn't. I wasn't even... Okay, first off, was I even in the picture?

Am I remembering it wrong? Yeah. We might need to find this photo.

Okay. Fans will find this photo in two seconds. You were in it for a slither, okay? You were eating the burgers as was everybody else. I posted it, and then you were like, You need to ask people before you post. I was horrified because I was new and terrified. This was Jessica Capshaw. I was like, Okay. And then I was like, Okay, she full-on hates me. Like, Burgergate happened. The vibes were not good.

They weren't great. I didn't hate you. I don't hate it.

No, you strongly… Disliked. I disliked what you did. You weren't a fan. Yes, you weren't a fan. Then We should talk about how we actually became friends. Yeah.

That happened. That was a real story because that happened. Then we didn't really have storylines together. We just existed. Yeah. All was right in the universe. All was fine.

Then we have friends in common on the show. Yeah.

They always did say that you really were great. I was getting it wrong. Because I didn't. They stood up for you. Yeah, I was like, She's strategic. That was the word I had for you. She's just strategic. There's something about her strategic.

You actually told me that I was strategic.

I said it to your face?

Yes, you did. I remember I was in the gallery. See, that's so upfront of me. I said, Thanks. I assume that we all are.

That is a compliment. It's a compliment. Yeah. It's like, ambitious.

It wasn't, though, a compliment.

I might not have meant it.

That was a compliment. Jessica and I, long story short, we invited a group of people separately. We helped organize together a group of people to go to dinner at Katsuya, a sushi restaurant in Los Angeles.

At this point, we got along fine.

We were fine. We were okay. We were okay. We were the only ones that showed up. Basically, everyone canceled on us, which I don't know what that says about us.

I thought about this. I think it really was. I actually genuinely remember it being like, someone had to work early the next morning and someone had a kid.

Or those were excuses. No, I think it was also the night of our wrap party, which is the party that happens at the end of every season. I think we were planning- It was dinner before. I think it was a dinner before a pre-party. Okay. People couldn't necessarily... Anyway, Dress and I were stuck together on a date at Katsuya.

Yeah, just us.

And then we just fell in love.

We totally did. It was just the mood. The mood was right. The lighting was right. We looked across.

Sashimi was gleaming. Was it Sashimi?

Was it was spicy. Yes.

Then truly, that Because that was our first year working together, truly.

Yes. Then we really did become friends immediately. It was instant ease and total belonging.

Yes. We laughed a lot together on set. That is our-In fact, it's actually really good that we didn't have a lot of scenes together because it would have ruined a lot of scenes together.

Yeah, for sure. I always think that the laughter that I have with you is the kind that I I had in high school with my best friend, where it really wasn't in my control to stop. I didn't have- No. It's a valve that gets turned on, and I can't turn it off.

That's a problem when you're shooting.

Yes, because they're paying you not to laugh. They're paying you to do your job. Exactly, right? Yeah. Then we were friends.

Yeah. It's been about, I want to say, 12 years now of friendship.

I bet. I bet. That's what that sounds right. Then Yeah, ups and downs and all arounds. And pregnancies. Oh, gosh. Pregnancies. Then we actually did have a storyline together when you were pregnant. You want to say a little bit about that? Just a little bit to talk about your work life balance and your mentality when...

Okay, listen. Okay, hang on. Let me just talk about pregnancy in Jessica Capshaw. Jessica was like, You should get pregnant on Grey's Snani because it's the most supportive set ever, blah, blah, blah. It is. That is true. But Jessica made it look easy as actress. You want to talk about showing up looking beautiful. You were glowing, okay? And I was like, Oh, my God, this is what pregnancy looks like as a working actress. And I was like, Yes, she's right. Yes, the show is extremely supportive. No, I was not glowing. I... You were, though. Was like a troll through my pregnancy, sweating, disgusting. And I was not the exact opposite of judgment. I was a false advertising. And we had a standalone together. Also a little delicate.

Maybe. Just think about it. Sure. Yeah, sure. Totally okay. Totally fine.

Burgergate?

You want to talk about delicate? I was a little delicate. See, so I'm delicate after having a baby. You're delicate during. Yes. Fine.

We had a standalone together, and I was pregnant.

Spooky prison episode.

The prison episode, yes. Did I ask for an extra large throne to sit on?

Sure. Maybe I did. Just ask for her chair to be just right offset, not like where our normal cast chairs are. She would like it about 20 paces closer to the set so that she didn't have to take 20 extra steps offset.

Do we have to go through everything? It's a genuine question.

Maybe the half hour lunch has really got under your skin.

He did. Okay, but I do think we should talk about this is how amazing our friendship feels to me, and this is super, super special. When I was pregnant and I did have my baby. This is how amazing Jessica Capsula is as a friend. I forgot how to swaddle. My first child, Hayden, was a baby. They tell you when you are... Babies love to be swaddled tight. No. My child was a Ninja at five days old, and she was getting out of that swaddle. I was like, I don't know how to do this. I called Jessica, and you were—I don't know if you remember this—you were driving on the freeway, and you pulled off at the exit. You were passing my house, and she came over just to show me how to swaddle and then left, and you were on your way. That just says everything about who you are as a friend.

I do remember, and I do. I genuinely felt like it was my privilege. These things that we learn and what are we if we don't pass them on? I mean, it was as easy as anything.

I think that that's something We have been there for each other in these huge moments, all the ups and downs, and then moments like that. Then you have moved to the opposite Coast. Yes.

I think that there was definitely a moment where you have your work friends and you have this incredibly rich life. Even if you are pulling off freeways to go see each other and grab a moment, but you always know you have that work time together, so you count on it for connection and everything else. Then my time at Grace ended. I think neither... But both of us were so ride or die at that point that I don't think either one of us was like, Oh, maybe it won't be the same. But I think that anyone from the outside would say, They're probably going to lose contact. Yeah, because you don't have that built-in place to connect. It didn't, right? It just didn't. It didn't. We talked just as much, and it was- Probably in a weird way more because we relied We all seeing each other on the show, but we didn't work together enough on the show. It's true. Yeah. But it just didn't. I knew exactly where you were. I mean, sometimes I remember. I remember getting a phone off from you on a Friday night. It was super late. It was like, just I knew.

There's not many people who know exactly what it is to do what you do. We all do different things. I do, and I did. Then absolutely, we would have each other at our homes. I remember you being there for the Mermeade birthday party.

The birthday party.

For Puppy James Gavigan.

And Hayden's first birthday. Yes.

Then Easter. Then the baby shower.

And the Easter, we were placed. Yeah.

So much fun. Then we decided to move our family to New York. Without asking. Without. I didn't even ask. That was really rude. I know. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I was so rude. I know. I remember there was a point where you were like, But where exactly? I was like, You're going to come? You're going to come? Come with me. Can we just talk about where you live?

Because if you Google maps where Jessica lives, you'll just see a field on one horse, and then it's her house.

I think you Google my house.

Even that horse is like, Where am I?

No, the horse is like, Yay! I love you, Jessica.

That's your best friend there. That's my best friend, which is why I enjoy our time so much.

I moved just outside of New York City because I have four children, and I did not think that the city life was not, I think, conducive to... We'll talk about this much more later. But I'm so invested in raising the best human beings that I possibly can, and it didn't feel like the city was going to check all the boxes.

I'm not, so they're still here. My kids are still here.

They're very young still. We moved to New York City, and you would have thought that our friendship would change, and it didn't. No. I think also the thing that is important to note is that you and I, early days, would always talk about... Maybe this is why I called you strategic because I saw in you what I see in myself, but I wasn't ready to really confront it yet. Was it actually, you got to have a fucking plan. You got to be strategic. What are you if you're not strategic? You're not just along for the ride. You don't want to be in the passenger seat all the time. You want to be in the driver's seat. So being strategic and thinking about the future and thinking about what you want to contribute, especially when you're on a show where I found our jobs to be incredibly creative and I love being an actress and it's so much fun and it's also really hard and incredibly complex on some level. You're speaking someone else's words. You're not the driver of the car. You're along for the ride on some level. You and I, early days, would talk about what we wanted that was more, whatever it was.

Do we want to produce? Is there a book to find. Do we want to produce something? Absolutely. Do you want to pitch a show? Even when we were there, it was like, My storyline, what's happening here? Are there ideas? Are there things? Push the limits. Be a part of creating what you want. We would talk often about that stuff. Then we both got invited to do a Grays Con in Paris.

In Paris, yes.

It was an opportunity to go and meet and be with fans and people who love all things Grays. It was also there was an opportunity to tag on two days in Paris with your bestie.

We basically made it a girls trip is what Jess is trying to get at.

This is what we did. Then we had the best time. The best time. I'm a little bit like, I like to be. I'm very big. I love organizing. I was a little more on the itinerary-based part of it all. I'd be like, Where are we staying?

A little more. I would just roll out of bed. I was like a lemming. I would follow Jess to wherever we would be going.

And we were. We were the tourists, and we were tourists in Paris. We were tourists, yeah. Because sometimes we didn't know where we were going, so we had to pull out that Google Maps.

Yeah, we did.

Google, are you going to pay us for this? We talk about you a lot.

No, not that. But we should talk about also that what we've discovered, which is what you can't guess with someone, is whether, and even if you have a great friendship, you don't know how two people are going to travel together. Because I've traveled with some girlfriends. We'll get into this in another episode. And it's not fun. It's really not fun.

Mm-mm.

You don't like to wake up at the same time. You don't want to get ready. You're not- It's just the vibes are off.

You know, you're like, Oh, this is you traveling. Like, okay, I don't know if we would be friends.

If we traveled. If we traveled.

In our friendship. If we traveled. But we travel so well together and we had a blast. I think one of the things that sparked this idea for the podcast, too, is we never did interviews together. We were on stage together and we had to do fun interviews together. We just had... I mean, it It was a trip. It was fantastic. We walked away, and I think that hunger for us to like, Wait, what are we going to do together?

Yes. Also that we both love making fun of ourselves. You like making fun of me more than... And you're better at it maybe than I am of you. But we do. We love the humor in it, and we don't mind if we're... We don't mind being the butt of the joke.

No, we don't.

We actually put ourselves squarely in that In that seat, yes. That happens a lot when you're traveling. Also, for anyone who knows jet lag, it is real. I think it was probably day two or three that you get real silly. It's usually day two. But there were a couple back of the taxi rides that...

Oh, ridiculous.

Tears. Tears falling down my face.

Because we... By the way, when we were in Paris, I should say this, it makes us sound ridiculous. But Jess and I did walk into some places thinking, Okay, let's grab a... In Los Angeles, you can walk in and be like, Hey, can I get a table? Not because of who we are.

Oh, should we reenact the scene just because we can?

But just like it's a little casual, right? You can walk in and be like, Hey, get a 10. Maybe it's a 15 in a way. In Paris, we found out...

It's a little different. How about you play the hostess at hotel?

No, I think you should play the hostess. Oh, okay.

You beat me. Okay. We were told that there was a really beautiful terrasse to go a little dinner at. That's a terrace for anyone that can't understand. It's a terrible terrasse. Terrasse. We were told about the terrace, and we walked over to this hotel that it was at. The gentleman sold it like it was no big deal, by the way. He was like, You can go down.

I was your lemming, so I'm like, Let's go.

We're going to- We walked in with confidence. We did. Yeah, we walked straight up to the hostess stand. We had no reservation.

By the way, The restaurant was dead. There was no one there.

There was no one there. The terrass was clear.

Yeah, there was no one there.

No one was in line for this place?

No.

No. Okay. Then there was also outside of the terrass, which was never going to say it the other way. It was like a square-shaped. There was then like an auxiliary area on the outside of the square where you could sit.

Yeah, you could sit and you could just look into the terrace. You were like an audience member for people eating in the terrace, which is where you wanted to be. It was sunny, it was beautiful, it was outside.

It was where you imagined that at any moment, Leonardo DiCaprio would be sitting there with an entourage.

Exactly. We wanted to be... Having a casual cigarette. We wanted that vibe.

We wanted that vibe for ourselves. We felt that it was organic. We felt that it would happen. We thought we were cool that day. We didn't think it was a stretch. No. We went up to the hostess stand, and so you're going to be...

I'm going to do it.

I'm going to be like, Hi. I'm going to be that. Jessica is actually really... I'm playing the part of the hostess.

Okay, this is how Jessica talks. Hi. Do you have a tea? No. Or... Okay, but the terrace, we're just going to be here for lunch. No. And it's going to... We'll be here for five minutes. No. Just a cup of tea.

We were It was no. It was no. But in French, it was no. It was an end in the beginning and the end. No.

Yeah. They let us know that that section was for hotel guests, and it was going to be packed, jamming.

Yeah. I got a B in my bonnet. I was pissed.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, I shouldn't have been. I don't know who I thought I was, but I was unhappy with her answer. Then I lied. Do you remember what I lied about?

You said that we were staying in the hotel, did you?

No, I said I called earlier. Then someone said it was fine.

Yes, yes. But we should have said we were staying at the hotel and done like a...

Well, we weren't. I knew we didn't have a key. That was not going to pass master. But I said that I called earlier. Yeah. And she said no.

And she said no. We ended up We ended up sitting because we're like, We're not leaving. We ended up sitting in the seats that looked onto the terrace. So we were like stalkers with our cocktails, looking at who would be sat there.

And every time someone new came onto the terrace. Yes. Camilla would be like, I don't think they're staying here.

Exactly the point. I don't think they're staying here. Here's the kicker, you guys. They don't look like it. Honestly, I love being humbled. Not that I think that we're the coolest people in the whole world, but our waiter came over and I said, Hey.

This was embarrassing.

Just look me in. I'm not going to tell the whole story. Okay, great. Just tell all that. Good. I was like, Hey, look me in the eye. Not everyone on the terrace is staying at the hotel, are they? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. He was like, No, sometimes if there's a celebrity that shows up. I don't remember this. He's like, They sit there. And Jessica and I were like, Okay. We were so humbled in that waiting for celebrities to show up on the sidelines. Anyway, I don't even know why we had to tell this humiliating story. Okay, sorry. This is a humiliating story. But basically, we've been through some shit together, including the terrass.

Yes, the terrace. Then we come back and we go back to our lives. Then I remember there being a case where Camilla's memory got sparked about a very funny story that happened there. She called me. I was with Christopher in the car. I answered. We talked, and by the end of it, I was laughing so, so hard, so, so, so hard. I was crying. Laughing, laughing, laughing. We hung up and Christopher looked at me, and he was like, I actually don't know anyone who makes you laugh that hard. I don't hear that laugh often. That's a real laugh.

We needed diapers in Paris. Oh, my God. We must peed our pants like 100 times in public.

Then we came home and we entered our lives, and I had already been in conversations about... I was really interested in the podcast. This is what they say. I was really interested in the podcast space, so I had been exploring it for myself. You sound really cool. I love that. I was exploring During the podcast space. But the thing was like, I...

You didn't want to do it by yourself.

I would have done it by myself.

Oh, the truth comes out.

No, I mean, I would have, but I didn't- I did a solo venture. Would you just calm down? I would have done myself. I would have done it myself. But you needed some star quality. I needed some star quality, and I needed... Would you just shut up? I can't even think. Tell me why I'm here. I will. I'm about to say something nice. Don't make this hard. I thought about it, and then I just... I don't know, something else happened, and you and I were talking, and you were also similarly interested in it. I just thought, our conversations are so easy, and they're so organic, and I so consider myself to be... I know other people would try to say they were, but I truly feel like one of I'm one of your number one fans. I'm sure there's more than one number one fan, but I am one of your number one fans. I love being with you. I love talking to you. I think that the things that we- Oh my God, I feel emotional right now that we're here doing this.

Okay, continue. Continue the compliments. What else?

Don't let my tears to stop you. Exactly. I remember then, I remember calling Uni and being like, Okay, what do we need? It was literally like, Just give me a couple of sentences instances to go with, what is this about? What is this podcast about? I think, I believe it was my idea to then just write my half of you, my feeling about you, our story, and I truly remember probably being in my car where most mothers are because we don't have offices, being in my car and staying there and writing a paragraph and sending it to Uni and sending it to... No, sending it to you and saying, Hey, can you write something like this back? And then we'll get notes on it, we'll refine it, whatever. You wrote something back that made me laugh so hard. I sent it off to Uni and I was like, Okay, so I can change it. I can edit it, whatever. She was like, No, this is it. This is perfect. This is done. And then it got sent off.

Then we had the conversation about what the podcast should be. I'm going to be honest. I listen to a lot of podcasts, and I felt like I wanted to do something a little bit different that could include our listeners. And so we came up with the idea of Call It What It Is, which feels like we have our You have your inner circle of your friendship, right? And it feels like we're going to expand it out with the podcast. Our intention is, with this going forward, is that we want to help us help you. We want to solve your problems. Solve. Solve?

It's the only way-Solve. The way you know she's English.

We want to help solve your problems like we've helped solve each other's problems.

Yes.

Last season, Millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of Betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband, doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind.

They led me into the house, and it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him.

Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.

I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed.

You did not just say, I wish he was dead.

He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Domer.

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you got your podcasts.

More Hey, I'm Melissa Fumero. And I'm Stephanie Beatriz. You may know us from television.

And now we're here with our very own podcast, More Better with Stephanie and Melissa.

We've known each other for thousands of years. And we've been through it all together. And we are totally killing it. We are literally the best. No, no. Life is great. None of that was true. Jk, JK. Join us on our excellent adventure as we take on topics like listening to yourself. There were a lot of red flags, and it did take me eight years to get there, but I got there. The challenge of self-care. This is important because now you're about to be a mom of two kids. And making friends as an adult. We're going to share our struggles just white-knuckling through life, babe. We're going to speak to experts, and we're going to share everything we learn with you. Listen to More Better with Stephanie and Melissa as part of the Michael Duda podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

When you're having an issue or when you have a problem, you feel so alone, and you're pretty much convinced that you're the only person that's ever had the problem.

And it's a wild thing that your mind does to you. And what I have found in friendship is that the minute you say it and that you have a compassionate partner who cares about you and loves you and sees the best in you, you have a direct access to a result to an answer, because that person sees you in a different way than you do, and you don't feel alone anymore. And again, the world can be a lonely place, and people can feel alone, but they don't need to because they can tune in to us on this podcast where we will call it what it is.

Exactly right. We need to let all of our new friends know where they can find us to tell us their problem.

Oh, yes, please, please, please, please. Where they can find us, yeah, they're going to DM us. Well, first, they're going to go to Instagram and they're to follow us at Call of What It Is, right? Yeah. Then they can DM us. They can slide into our DM.

We want you to slide into the DMs.

Slide hard. There's something so naughty about that.

Sliding into my DM. But slide with details.

But you know what? If you're feeling a little less naughty, you can also just email us.

Absolutely. You can email us. At what?

Call it at iheartradio. Com. Yeah.

Is there any other way to contact us, Jess?

Well, I mean, if you felt like just picking up the phone.

Yeah.

Yeah. Just maybe one of those pink phones in the promos that you see us in.

Yeah, exactly. And what's that number?

Well, the number is 8337, call it. Yeah. Which also would be 8337-22-5548.

Exactly.

I hope we got our own jiggle. We're open to all lines of communication.

Pardon me? We need our own jiggle like, 8337, call it. It's not seven. It's 8337, call it.

So, again, you can either Or go the Insta route, you can go the email route, you can go the calling us route, or in the future, you can go the live route. Yes. Intense. Will we answer the phone? Yes, we will.

Yeah, we will. Exactly right. For anyone that wants to contact us and remain anonymous, you absolutely can. We do not have to tell anybody your handle or who you are, anything else. We can keep it all nice Yeah.

Yeah, they can even... If they wanted to, they could use a voice scrambler. They could call and they could be...

Well, like in Scream?

Yeah.

What about that?

Oh, wow. Well, you can also... Or you could get AI involved and they sound like...

Right. I don't know.

I don't know. Dolly Parton, but they're not.

Dolly, is that you? Thank you guys so much for joining us. This is- Oh my goodness.

The conclusion of the first episode. I love I love it.

How are you feeling, Jess?

I feel great. I feel great. I love talking to you. I love talking about what we're hoping to do. It's exciting. It's full of possibilities.

Yeah, exactly right.

I'm really excited to hear from everybody.

Me, too.

I'm also really excited. I'm really excited about future guests.

Me too.

I've already had people. I've had people slide into my DM's asking about guesting, just so we're clear. Very exciting people, too.

And they're going to come on. And by the way, they are also going to help us solve all the problems.

Yeah. Or at least figure out the next best step. How about we do that? Maybe there'll be things that we actually genuinely figure out. Maybe we'll figure out the next best step. Maybe it'll be a two-parter Who knows? We don't know. That's why the possibilities are endless.

Yes, exactly right. And for those of you wondering, just before we go, if we will ever hear back from people whose problems we have, quote, unquote, solved, yes, we may get a revisit.

A repeat visitor.

A repeat visitor.

Yes. I mean, all of this is to say the sky's the limit.

Exactly right.

And this has been the very first episode. The very first episode, the premiere episode of...

Call It What It Is. Call It What It Is.

Bye, friends.

Last season, Millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of Betrayal. Justin Rutherford. Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover to hide behind.

Detective Weaver said, I'm sure you know why we're here. I was like, What in the world is going on?

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

More, more, more, more, more, take on topics like listening to yourself, the challenge of self-care, and making friends as an adult.

We're going to share our struggles. We're going to speak to experts, and we're going to share everything we learn with you. Listen to more better with Stephanie and Melissa on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go, right? There's a host, a guest, and a light Q&A. On NPR's new podcast, Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's part existential deep dive and part game show. I ask actors, artists, and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to ask some of life's biggest questions. Listen to NPR's Wild Card on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.