President Biden, we understand, is refusing to give an inch, even as now 34 Democrats in Congress are calling on him to step aside, out of, of course, about 200. Biden is in Delaware after being diagnosed with COVID, and in a news statement today, says he will return to the campaign trail next week. The first lady, Jill Biden, is scheduled to host a fundraiser in Paris next Thursday. She's there for the Olympics opening ceremony. The price of admission there is between $525,000. Meantime, this afternoon, the vice President Kamala Harris, met with major their Democratic donors, a Zoom call, reportedly organized by the influential mega donor and LinkedIn founder, Reid Hoffman. Hoffman has been pushing very assertively for an alternative ticket, many scenarios which do not even involve Harris. But as Biden digs in, his campaign is dismissing the donors and elected officials who also get money from those same donors who have turned on Biden. Biden's campaign insisting that they have contact with real voters, including the 14 million of them who democratically chose Biden as their nominee, and that the polls that elected members of Congress are now pointing to to justify throwing their ticket out after voters picked it are bunk.

In fact, Biden's feelings about polls are not new. Here's what he told me in his most recent interview on CNN. When you talk about the economy, of course, it is by far the most important issue for voters. It's also true right now, Mr. President, that voters, by a wide margin, trust Trump more on the economy. With less than six months to go to election day, are you worried that you're running out of time to turn that around?

We've already turned around. Look at the Michigan survey. For 65% of the American people, they think they're in good shape economically.

They think the nation is not in good shape, but they're personally in good shape.

The polling data has been wrong all along.

The polling data has run wrong all along. Those are the words of the President, and anyone who spent any time with him in the past six months has heard that from him. It was a defiant Biden then, as he appears to be tonight in the face of more Democrats turning on him. Mj Lee is out front from the White House to begin our coverage. And MJ, Biden staying in the race, doubling down tonight. Vice President Kamala Harris getting on that major donor call at a crucial moment. What more are you learning about that call?

Yeah, Erin, at a moment when President Biden is sidelined with COVID and his political future remains so uncertain, we saw the campaign dispatching Vice President Kamala Harris to get on a call with major donors. It was described as a pep talk of source where she said, We are going to win. Importantly, she didn't address the chaos that is engulfing the Democratic Party. And clearly, this was seen as an attempt to turn the attention back to Donald Trump. But Erin, for all of the talk right now about the growing public calls on President Biden to get out of the race, the campaign's money problems are incredibly serious right now. Many donors have told us that they are simply no longer going to write checks, so long as President Biden remains at the top of the ticket. And I was just speaking with a major Democratic donor who summed it up this way. They said, I don't know how you campaign with a broadening electoral map without money. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know. I've never seen this strategy where you think you can win without money. Now, Erin, this donor was saying maybe under the current circumstances, you can dig in for a couple more weeks, but anything longer term is going to be extraordinarily difficult.

And they also happen to mention that the emails that you get from the campaign for campaign events and fundraisers have really slowed down in recent weeks. I should just note, the Biden campaign has has really taken pride in pointing to the national infrastructure that it has built over the last year or so, the offices they've opened, the staff hires that they've made, the training that they're doing, the voter outreach. But the bottom line is, you can have an amazing operation, but you can't keep the lights on if the money is not coming in.

All right, MJ, thank you very much. And joining us now, Isaac DeVarey, who has broken numerous stories about the Biden campaign here, Kate Anderson-Brower, who's reported extensively on the Biden family, and CNN Newsnight anchor, Abby Philip, Isaac, let me just start with you. Biden insisting he's not going anywhere, campaign insisting he's not going anywhere, campaign chief giving that interview this morning, despite the list of Democrats calling for him to step aside, obviously getting longer by the hour. Do you think these calls are now backfiring or not, Isaac?

Well, they're backfiring in a way, and also it's important. It's been pointed out to me that Joe Biden is experiencing what's happening in a different time frame than most of the rest of us. He was aware last week that Nancy Pelosi had a tough conversation with him because he was part of The rest of us only became aware of it this week with the CNN reporting about it. So he is factoring that stuff in, not in a way that is, as some have made it out, that he's just not paying attention to anything. He's paying attention to it. He just thinks that he has a lot of other information and data that's pointing him in a different direction, and also is always coming back to the fact that other people said he couldn't beat Donald Trump. Other people said that Hillary Clinton was the one to beat Donald Trump over him in 2016. And he thinks he's proven those arguments wrong. Before before, and he can again.

So, Kate, the chaos and uncertainty out there. Obviously, we know the importance of Jill Biden, and the first lady is supposed to go to Paris, right, for a fundraiser and the Olympic opening ceremony, right, as part of her role as first lady. Price of the ticket is $525,000. I'm curious how actually all that is going. But based on your sources, what is she thinking right now?

Well, a source inside the White House told me that she's all in because he's all in, and that this caricature of her as a Lady Macbeth character that she's holding on to power and is somehow running things behind the scenes is absolutely not true. She's not involved politically, but she is involved as a wife in a support system to him. I mean, they've been married for almost five decades. They have been in fox holes together before. She sees this as just another trial that they have to get through. And he's run for President several times. And I think it's really hard for any President to be in there for one term. Their wives off and want them to stick it out and try to win another term.

Well, from a legacy perspective, there's no It might not work out, but her ceiling almost certainly could be higher, particularly with a vice President that generates some excitement, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Mark Kelly. I think Democrats, as the mayor said, would feel a real burst of energy not having to defend this difficult situation they're in.I want to go back to Bill De Blasio, Mayor De Blasio. How do you think Trump's speech last night at the Republican Convention in Milwaukee and his position in this race right now is actually impacting President Biden's thinking on whether he should stay or leave the race.Look, I want to believe that President Biden and the people around him are objective and they're looking at facts, even though it's a very difficult and painful decision and a lot of emotion. There's a lot of facts to look at here. And by the way, I don't agree with the Republicans, but they did manage their convention very well, and they got a message across. Now, I think your question about the speech, I would say the beginning of the speech was exactly what Donald Trump should be doing if he wanted to try and bring in those swing voters, particularly those suburban women voters who really will decide this election. But he couldn't help himself. After six or seven minutes of trying to be a unifier, his better angels flew away, and he went back to an hour and a half of complaint and rambling negative, nasty complaints. I think the challenge here for Trump is that he really can't get away from that essential persona. If you're Joe Biden watching that, I'm sure it's tempting to say, Hey, Maybe we can regain a foothold. But in the end, I go back to the point that I think all of those Democrats, all those folks out there who want to win desperately, need to believe we can win, and they don't see it right now.If they were given a little hope and a little possibility of winning, I think it creates a tremendous groundswell of energy that puts us right back in this game.Pushing back while trying to be pushed out. I'm Brianna Keeler alongside Boris Sanchez here in Washington, and today, a growing number of Democrats are calling for President Biden to drop his re-election bid. The total is now over 30. It has gone up from the beginning of our show, in fact. And we are learning that House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffrey, and his team are not discouraging members from continuing to speak out against Joe Biden's candidacy.Yeah, but it appears his campaign is not listening to doubters. We're told that Vice President Kamala Harris will join a call with donors this afternoon. This is actually a video from a short time ago where she was visiting an ice cream shop in Washington, DC, with her nieces. This all comes not long after President Biden released his own statement saying he's looking forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week once he recovers from COVID.Let's bring in CNN Senior White House correspondent, MJ Lee, because MJ, you have some new reporting on how the Biden campaign is now trying to rally the troops. Walk us through.Yeah. I mean, we're told that there was an all-campaign staff call earlier today. Those happen with some regularity, so that's not unusual. But a campaign chair, Jen O'Malley-Dillon, said on this call that they are focused on voter contact right now. Obviously, the President has made clear that he's staying in the race, and the campaign is really telling their staff what we are doing is reaching out to voters. She said at one point, When you give me polls, I'm going to give you direct voter contact. I'm also told that she said people in our country are not watching cable news. Just on the voter contact part, the reason that this is significant is because this is the central argument that we are starting to see from the campaign on the reason for the President staying in. They're essentially saying what is more important to us right now than what the polls are telling us is what the voters are telling us. O'malley Dylan did talk about this a little bit on the air earlier today. Take a listen.We go out and we're door knocking just this week.So this isn't in the past.This is this week.We did about 100,000 door knocks. 76 % of those people we knocked on doors and we talked to are with Joe Biden.We have about 16 % or so that's undecided. They have questions.Is he in this race?What's going to happen?And then a small percentage that are not available to us.Yeah, so this argument that they are just going to be listening to voters, I mean, that is going to be so central as the campaign continues getting more and more pushback from members saying he needs to drop out. I think it's not a coincidence that we've heard the President himself repeatedly saying, since the debate, I can't just discount the millions of people that participated in the process and voted for me. I think the problem is that who else is listening to voters are members of Congress. They're going home and hearing from a lot of people that are concerned and think that the President needs to get out.They're also noting that people cast those ballots before the debate. So that's something else. Mj, thank you so much. Joining us now, we have Ron Brownstein, CNN Senior Political Analyst and senior editor for The Atlantic, and Chuck Rocha, Democratic strategist and former senior advisor to Bernie Sanders and 2016. Bernie Sanders is 2016 and 2020 presidential campaigns. All right, Chuck, tell us this moment that we are at right now in this race, how would you describe where we're at on the Democratic side of things?I'd say control chaos. I think that there's trying to be control with the party. Now, I've run a presidential campaign, I'm one of the few people who have. And what you saw General Malley doing is trying to get a handle on it. When you talk about having an all staff call, those don't happen all the time, but they happen at times of tragedy. I was running a presidential campaign when a guy had a heart attack one time in Nevada. I was in the office, Bernie's office. When that went down, we had to control things and get control over emotions. And that's what you see now. The hardest part of this is what you're reporting on now is all these members of Congress, though. People that he's worked with. He's an animal of the Senate. This is really hard when you start hearing rumors about Nancy Pelosi. But right now, the campaign wants to control this and keep people focused on thousands of doors that they're knocking, the infrastructure that they're built, their fundraising. This is where they want you talking about.Yeah, they're certainly focused on that when they try to justify him staying in the race compared to some of the polling and some of these concerns from lawmakers. I'm wondering what you make of the discrepancy in some of the reporting where we're hearing the campaign publicly say he's staying in, he's not getting out, and yet privately from sources close to the President, he's asking questions about whether the folks around him believe that Kamala Harris would be a better candidate to be Donald Trump.I think part of it is folks that you get to see on camera. Actually speaking and putting their name in their faces to things, and then folks who are being unnamed sources. I'll tell you this about presidential campaigns. There's only a small group of people. Everybody likes to claim that they know about running campaigns, but they ain't never really run a campaign or been in the room, as they say in Hamilton, where it happens. There's only a small group of people actually talking to the President, and the ones that you're seeing are the ones you see on TV while there's other folks who are unnamed.Ron, what are you listening to? I mean, let's just point out Biden ally, Senator Chris Coons, is saying that he believes Biden is weighing who the best candidate is to beat Trump. You have Hakeem Jeffrey, the leader of Democrats in the House, skirting questions of whether Biden is the strongest candidate and not discouraging his caucus members from saying they think Biden should step aside. And you also have congressman Seth Moulton writing an op-ed for the Boston Globe saying that for the first time in Normandy, Biden did not recognize, seem to recognize who he was. What data points What are you looking at?Look, I think, as Chuck puts it, the people who have been in the room at the senior levels of Democratic presidential campaigns, I've talked to almost all of them in the last two weeks. Overwhelmingly, they do not believe that Joe Biden can recover to win. I think donors overwhelmingly do not believe that he can recover to win, and that has a real bite on self-fulfilling prophecy to some extent. And I think elected officials who are very hesitant to challenge him publicly publicly because they have great respect for Biden, and the phrase I heard a week ago often was, We have to give him the grace and the space to do this. They are growing more and more impatient. I mean, if you look at the alternative, which is most likely rallying around Vice President Kamala Harris, I think Democrats believe she may have a lower floor, but she almost certainly has a higher ceiling. You know, that with Biden, you are locked in concrete at this point. Where the President is has been stuck at 40 % or below since the summer of '23, 70 % saying he's too old. Most people who have been in the room, to use Chuck's phrase, do not believe you can recover from that despite all the resistance to Trump.And with Harris, it might go badly, but at least there's more fluidity in the situation and the opportunity to reignite some excitement in the Democratic coalition.I want to go back to Chuck because there is this question of what happens if Biden decides that he's stepping out of the race place. And just before we went on air, you were describing the scenario at the convention. I'm wondering if you could share that with our viewers and then give us your perspective on how it works out with candidate dynamics. Who could wind up at the top of the ticket?I've been to every convention since 1996 when I still had hair and was skinny. A long time have I seen these conventions. And what I'm getting at there is that every convention is the same. And you see all those great signs like you saw at the Republican Convention, and the delegates literally get to nominate who they are. But there is a provision, as you both know and have reported on, where you don't have to be with who's with you in case something like this happens, which opens up the floor for nominations like they used to do in the old days in smoke-filled backrooms when the party actually decided who the nominee would be. And so that's what you would see if, big if, somebody didn't run, and if the President didn't run, they would have to open up that nomination. And lots of folks, I think lots of people would get into the race. And I think lots of people right now are trying to position themselves through unnamed sources and other things to be on the top of those tickets.Ron, what would that look like in this race if you saw that happening? And also, can you speak to something that we've heard some Democrats who are standing behind Biden say, which is once you get into that chaos with the money that's been raised, you could see legal challenges from Republicans, and then it's a who knows what's going to happen.Yeah. You know, Brianna, the analogy I often hear from top Democratic strategists is that if you are in a car that is speeding toward a cliff, there is a risk of jumping out of the door while the car is still moving. There's probably a bigger risk of staying in the car as it goes over the cliff, Thelma and Louise notwithstanding. And I think that's what Democrats view. I mean, there are obviously lots of problems with switching at this late date. But I think by and large, Democrats feel that it would be relatively seamless in terms of the money and the organizational structure to move from Biden to Harris. And I am less sure than Chuck that there would be a full-throated process. I think that, obviously, it would be open technically, but the candidates who a large number of delegates might think would be a stronger option than Harris, Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsom, have already said they would not challenge her. And I question whether anyone who is a full scale top tier challenger would want to put their hat in the ring against the first female vice President of color at this moment. I think the party could coalesce around her pretty quickly, and there could be excitement for a ticket that would either be Harris Shapiro, Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, or Harris Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, who would be a real roll of the dice and potentially a lot of excitement as the first all-female take it.So I actually think if Biden steps aside, they would not be anything approaching civil war. I think climbing that first mountain of nudging him out, I'm not sure how many people have the stomach for climbing a second mountain of bypassing her. And the party, I think, would feel, by and large, a sense of relief. Not everybody. There are a lot of people who want to stick with Biden, but I think the consensus in the party is clearly moving toward the position that he cannot win. And therefore, if we want to save not only him, but potentially, last point, eight Democratic Senate seats in states where he is now trailing. That could be a deficit that could last in the Senate all the way to 2030, which would leave Republicans plenty of time to confirm successors to Alito and Thomas and thus control the Supreme Court until 2050.President has campaigned their defiant in insisting he's going to be remaining the Democratic presidential nominee in this race, but more and more Democrats, Congressional Democrats, 10 today alone, are coming out saying he should drop out. Where does that leave the Democratic Party right now?In a state of paralysis, really where it's been for much of the last 22 days. But it's a deeper sense, I think. There's been movement this week in terms of a selected number of members of Congress, as MJ was saying there, giving different messages for why they believe the President should step aside. Everyone is respectful. Everyone is saying that the choice should be his. But the tone has changed in these letters pretty significantly from Zó Loughlin, for example, Seth Moulton, for example, using very personal reasons and arguments. So I think overall, the party is at one month from its convention period. We've just obviously got back from a Milwaukee, the Republican Convention. Democrats are going into their convention completely divided over the idea of who should be the standard bearer, which is something that I think none of us would have anticipated a going to be an important week. You can imagine they're anticipating more defections. Reporters are going to be pressuring these members. Do you support? Do you not support? I think the President needs to to go up there, and if not him, it needs to be the vice President. They need to go up there, bring that Detroit energy, and make the case directly to the caucus. Listen, I'm in it. You raised the question. I answered your question. There shouldn't be any more doubt whether or not I'm scared. We've got to center and focus our attention now, our eyeer on Donald Trump.Only he can deliver that message, and he can't do it via a letter. And I think what Pelosi is trying to really do to some degree is pressure him to rise to the occasion.That's good advice from you, Ashley. Thanks Very much. Brad Todd is with us as well. The Trump campaign, Brad, is not exactly hiding that they would prefer to run against President Biden. If he were to step aside, how much would that shake up the entire 2024 race?Well, I think first off, if he steps aside, it's most likely Kamala Harris, and she's going to own every bit of the policy that got this administration to a 38% approval rating.If it's not Kamala Harris, the next most likely nominee is still Joe Biden.That's what we have to accept.And so I think you're going to see this is a challenger campaign, and challenger campaign in a wrong track year is going to run on, do you want to keep doing what they're doing?Jeff, you have some new reporting, important new reporting about a donor call that vice President Kamala Harris, joined in on today, and these ongoing concerns about President Biden's candidacy. What are you learning?Yeah, this was not a fundraising call. This was a call with donors to alleviate concerns, we're told. And that is one of the big also worries. There's several issues and worries and fears, but money is a big part. The Biden campaign has built a very robust organization. We've talked a lot about the offices that they've opened and the ads that they've been running. So it takes a lot of money. Donors are, quite frankly, either angry, worried, freaked out, et cetera. So she was on a phone call, I'm told, with some high tech donors and things, trying to ease their concern, but also specifically, as Kate was talking about, trying to turn the conversation back to Donald Trump. But she also said, Excuse me, let me look at my notes here. Someone who was on the call sent this to us. It talked specifically about the speech last night, and it said, Throughout their convention, they've been trying to act like they were trying to bring the country together. But here's the thing, if you claim to stand for unity, you need to do more than use that word. And then she goes on to say, the vice President goes on to say, Let me be clear, Trump's convention this week was one big attempt to distract people.But she left people with the idea, and she said, I feel strongly you should all take this with you when you leave. Tell your friends, we will win this election. We're going to win. One thing she didn't address, I'm told, was the state of the President's decision making. She is likely not any more read it on that than what he said publicly. He's in this campaign, so she is doing her day job, and that's to be the loyal vice President.That's interesting, Kate. Vice President Harris, she went out today and went to an ice cream shop here in Washington, DC. We've been showing video of that throughout the day. This seems to be some of Biden's playbook, if you will. He likes to go have a little ice cream himself. What do you make of that?Well, look, Vice President Harris has been both a critical governing partner for President Biden in the White House, but also a really active presence on the campaign trail. I mean, she's been carrying forth one of the most significant lines of attack that Democrats have this election cycle on Donald Trump and the Republicans, which is their attack on reproductive health and on women's freedom and their right to make their own health care decisions with their doctors. And vice President Harris has been really the standard bearer in carrying that message forward. So I don't see that. I don't see her doing this event today as anything different. Now, there may be a little more media coverage on what she's been doing of late because of this story. But I think if you look at her campaign appearances, she's been out consistently as a huge factor in this campaign, and she'll continue to be.It's interesting, Ashley, because the vice President is actually, in some of these more recent polls, in some of the key battleground states, polling better than President Biden is right now. And he said this week, this is what Biden said, she would be a great President. So why do you think he's so reluctant to step off the stage right now and give it to her?I think he thinks that he's equipped to do this job and he's prepared to do this job. That's why he's not stepping off the stage. And I think, as he said, I take him at his word that he's best positioned to beat Donald Trump. And to some degree, that is absolutely true. To your point, the vice President is doing well with that broad coalition that Biden built in 2020 to win. But many of her numbers aren't tested. You can look at Joe Biden's numbers, and if he's at 43, you can trust that that's 43 because her numbers have not suffered under the weight of millions of dollars of Republican attacks. They've just now started to attack her. So to some degree, I think the president is absolutely right. She and any other alternative is untested.

It might not work out, but her ceiling almost certainly could be higher, particularly with a vice President that generates some excitement, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Mark Kelly. I think Democrats, as the mayor said, would feel a real burst of energy not having to defend this difficult situation they're in.

I want to go back to Bill De Blasio, Mayor De Blasio. How do you think Trump's speech last night at the Republican Convention in Milwaukee and his position in this race right now is actually impacting President Biden's thinking on whether he should stay or leave the race.

Look, I want to believe that President Biden and the people around him are objective and they're looking at facts, even though it's a very difficult and painful decision and a lot of emotion. There's a lot of facts to look at here. And by the way, I don't agree with the Republicans, but they did manage their convention very well, and they got a message across. Now, I think your question about the speech, I would say the beginning of the speech was exactly what Donald Trump should be doing if he wanted to try and bring in those swing voters, particularly those suburban women voters who really will decide this election. But he couldn't help himself. After six or seven minutes of trying to be a unifier, his better angels flew away, and he went back to an hour and a half of complaint and rambling negative, nasty complaints. I think the challenge here for Trump is that he really can't get away from that essential persona. If you're Joe Biden watching that, I'm sure it's tempting to say, Hey, Maybe we can regain a foothold. But in the end, I go back to the point that I think all of those Democrats, all those folks out there who want to win desperately, need to believe we can win, and they don't see it right now.

If they were given a little hope and a little possibility of winning, I think it creates a tremendous groundswell of energy that puts us right back in this game.

Pushing back while trying to be pushed out. I'm Brianna Keeler alongside Boris Sanchez here in Washington, and today, a growing number of Democrats are calling for President Biden to drop his re-election bid. The total is now over 30. It has gone up from the beginning of our show, in fact. And we are learning that House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffrey, and his team are not discouraging members from continuing to speak out against Joe Biden's candidacy.

Yeah, but it appears his campaign is not listening to doubters. We're told that Vice President Kamala Harris will join a call with donors this afternoon. This is actually a video from a short time ago where she was visiting an ice cream shop in Washington, DC, with her nieces. This all comes not long after President Biden released his own statement saying he's looking forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week once he recovers from COVID.

Let's bring in CNN Senior White House correspondent, MJ Lee, because MJ, you have some new reporting on how the Biden campaign is now trying to rally the troops. Walk us through.

Yeah. I mean, we're told that there was an all-campaign staff call earlier today. Those happen with some regularity, so that's not unusual. But a campaign chair, Jen O'Malley-Dillon, said on this call that they are focused on voter contact right now. Obviously, the President has made clear that he's staying in the race, and the campaign is really telling their staff what we are doing is reaching out to voters. She said at one point, When you give me polls, I'm going to give you direct voter contact. I'm also told that she said people in our country are not watching cable news. Just on the voter contact part, the reason that this is significant is because this is the central argument that we are starting to see from the campaign on the reason for the President staying in. They're essentially saying what is more important to us right now than what the polls are telling us is what the voters are telling us. O'malley Dylan did talk about this a little bit on the air earlier today. Take a listen.

We go out and we're door knocking just this week.

So this isn't in the past.

This is this week.

We did about 100,000 door knocks. 76 % of those people we knocked on doors and we talked to are with Joe Biden.

We have about 16 % or so that's undecided. They have questions.

Is he in this race?

What's going to happen?

And then a small percentage that are not available to us.

Yeah, so this argument that they are just going to be listening to voters, I mean, that is going to be so central as the campaign continues getting more and more pushback from members saying he needs to drop out. I think it's not a coincidence that we've heard the President himself repeatedly saying, since the debate, I can't just discount the millions of people that participated in the process and voted for me. I think the problem is that who else is listening to voters are members of Congress. They're going home and hearing from a lot of people that are concerned and think that the President needs to get out.

They're also noting that people cast those ballots before the debate. So that's something else. Mj, thank you so much. Joining us now, we have Ron Brownstein, CNN Senior Political Analyst and senior editor for The Atlantic, and Chuck Rocha, Democratic strategist and former senior advisor to Bernie Sanders and 2016. Bernie Sanders is 2016 and 2020 presidential campaigns. All right, Chuck, tell us this moment that we are at right now in this race, how would you describe where we're at on the Democratic side of things?

I'd say control chaos. I think that there's trying to be control with the party. Now, I've run a presidential campaign, I'm one of the few people who have. And what you saw General Malley doing is trying to get a handle on it. When you talk about having an all staff call, those don't happen all the time, but they happen at times of tragedy. I was running a presidential campaign when a guy had a heart attack one time in Nevada. I was in the office, Bernie's office. When that went down, we had to control things and get control over emotions. And that's what you see now. The hardest part of this is what you're reporting on now is all these members of Congress, though. People that he's worked with. He's an animal of the Senate. This is really hard when you start hearing rumors about Nancy Pelosi. But right now, the campaign wants to control this and keep people focused on thousands of doors that they're knocking, the infrastructure that they're built, their fundraising. This is where they want you talking about.

Yeah, they're certainly focused on that when they try to justify him staying in the race compared to some of the polling and some of these concerns from lawmakers. I'm wondering what you make of the discrepancy in some of the reporting where we're hearing the campaign publicly say he's staying in, he's not getting out, and yet privately from sources close to the President, he's asking questions about whether the folks around him believe that Kamala Harris would be a better candidate to be Donald Trump.

I think part of it is folks that you get to see on camera. Actually speaking and putting their name in their faces to things, and then folks who are being unnamed sources. I'll tell you this about presidential campaigns. There's only a small group of people. Everybody likes to claim that they know about running campaigns, but they ain't never really run a campaign or been in the room, as they say in Hamilton, where it happens. There's only a small group of people actually talking to the President, and the ones that you're seeing are the ones you see on TV while there's other folks who are unnamed.

Ron, what are you listening to? I mean, let's just point out Biden ally, Senator Chris Coons, is saying that he believes Biden is weighing who the best candidate is to beat Trump. You have Hakeem Jeffrey, the leader of Democrats in the House, skirting questions of whether Biden is the strongest candidate and not discouraging his caucus members from saying they think Biden should step aside. And you also have congressman Seth Moulton writing an op-ed for the Boston Globe saying that for the first time in Normandy, Biden did not recognize, seem to recognize who he was. What data points What are you looking at?

Look, I think, as Chuck puts it, the people who have been in the room at the senior levels of Democratic presidential campaigns, I've talked to almost all of them in the last two weeks. Overwhelmingly, they do not believe that Joe Biden can recover to win. I think donors overwhelmingly do not believe that he can recover to win, and that has a real bite on self-fulfilling prophecy to some extent. And I think elected officials who are very hesitant to challenge him publicly publicly because they have great respect for Biden, and the phrase I heard a week ago often was, We have to give him the grace and the space to do this. They are growing more and more impatient. I mean, if you look at the alternative, which is most likely rallying around Vice President Kamala Harris, I think Democrats believe she may have a lower floor, but she almost certainly has a higher ceiling. You know, that with Biden, you are locked in concrete at this point. Where the President is has been stuck at 40 % or below since the summer of '23, 70 % saying he's too old. Most people who have been in the room, to use Chuck's phrase, do not believe you can recover from that despite all the resistance to Trump.

And with Harris, it might go badly, but at least there's more fluidity in the situation and the opportunity to reignite some excitement in the Democratic coalition.

I want to go back to Chuck because there is this question of what happens if Biden decides that he's stepping out of the race place. And just before we went on air, you were describing the scenario at the convention. I'm wondering if you could share that with our viewers and then give us your perspective on how it works out with candidate dynamics. Who could wind up at the top of the ticket?

I've been to every convention since 1996 when I still had hair and was skinny. A long time have I seen these conventions. And what I'm getting at there is that every convention is the same. And you see all those great signs like you saw at the Republican Convention, and the delegates literally get to nominate who they are. But there is a provision, as you both know and have reported on, where you don't have to be with who's with you in case something like this happens, which opens up the floor for nominations like they used to do in the old days in smoke-filled backrooms when the party actually decided who the nominee would be. And so that's what you would see if, big if, somebody didn't run, and if the President didn't run, they would have to open up that nomination. And lots of folks, I think lots of people would get into the race. And I think lots of people right now are trying to position themselves through unnamed sources and other things to be on the top of those tickets.

Ron, what would that look like in this race if you saw that happening? And also, can you speak to something that we've heard some Democrats who are standing behind Biden say, which is once you get into that chaos with the money that's been raised, you could see legal challenges from Republicans, and then it's a who knows what's going to happen.

Yeah. You know, Brianna, the analogy I often hear from top Democratic strategists is that if you are in a car that is speeding toward a cliff, there is a risk of jumping out of the door while the car is still moving. There's probably a bigger risk of staying in the car as it goes over the cliff, Thelma and Louise notwithstanding. And I think that's what Democrats view. I mean, there are obviously lots of problems with switching at this late date. But I think by and large, Democrats feel that it would be relatively seamless in terms of the money and the organizational structure to move from Biden to Harris. And I am less sure than Chuck that there would be a full-throated process. I think that, obviously, it would be open technically, but the candidates who a large number of delegates might think would be a stronger option than Harris, Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsom, have already said they would not challenge her. And I question whether anyone who is a full scale top tier challenger would want to put their hat in the ring against the first female vice President of color at this moment. I think the party could coalesce around her pretty quickly, and there could be excitement for a ticket that would either be Harris Shapiro, Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, or Harris Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, who would be a real roll of the dice and potentially a lot of excitement as the first all-female take it.

So I actually think if Biden steps aside, they would not be anything approaching civil war. I think climbing that first mountain of nudging him out, I'm not sure how many people have the stomach for climbing a second mountain of bypassing her. And the party, I think, would feel, by and large, a sense of relief. Not everybody. There are a lot of people who want to stick with Biden, but I think the consensus in the party is clearly moving toward the position that he cannot win. And therefore, if we want to save not only him, but potentially, last point, eight Democratic Senate seats in states where he is now trailing. That could be a deficit that could last in the Senate all the way to 2030, which would leave Republicans plenty of time to confirm successors to Alito and Thomas and thus control the Supreme Court until 2050.

President has campaigned their defiant in insisting he's going to be remaining the Democratic presidential nominee in this race, but more and more Democrats, Congressional Democrats, 10 today alone, are coming out saying he should drop out. Where does that leave the Democratic Party right now?

In a state of paralysis, really where it's been for much of the last 22 days. But it's a deeper sense, I think. There's been movement this week in terms of a selected number of members of Congress, as MJ was saying there, giving different messages for why they believe the President should step aside. Everyone is respectful. Everyone is saying that the choice should be his. But the tone has changed in these letters pretty significantly from Zó Loughlin, for example, Seth Moulton, for example, using very personal reasons and arguments. So I think overall, the party is at one month from its convention period. We've just obviously got back from a Milwaukee, the Republican Convention. Democrats are going into their convention completely divided over the idea of who should be the standard bearer, which is something that I think none of us would have anticipated a going to be an important week. You can imagine they're anticipating more defections. Reporters are going to be pressuring these members. Do you support? Do you not support? I think the President needs to to go up there, and if not him, it needs to be the vice President. They need to go up there, bring that Detroit energy, and make the case directly to the caucus. Listen, I'm in it. You raised the question. I answered your question. There shouldn't be any more doubt whether or not I'm scared. We've got to center and focus our attention now, our eyeer on Donald Trump.Only he can deliver that message, and he can't do it via a letter. And I think what Pelosi is trying to really do to some degree is pressure him to rise to the occasion.That's good advice from you, Ashley. Thanks Very much. Brad Todd is with us as well. The Trump campaign, Brad, is not exactly hiding that they would prefer to run against President Biden. If he were to step aside, how much would that shake up the entire 2024 race?Well, I think first off, if he steps aside, it's most likely Kamala Harris, and she's going to own every bit of the policy that got this administration to a 38% approval rating.If it's not Kamala Harris, the next most likely nominee is still Joe Biden.That's what we have to accept.And so I think you're going to see this is a challenger campaign, and challenger campaign in a wrong track year is going to run on, do you want to keep doing what they're doing?Jeff, you have some new reporting, important new reporting about a donor call that vice President Kamala Harris, joined in on today, and these ongoing concerns about President Biden's candidacy. What are you learning?Yeah, this was not a fundraising call. This was a call with donors to alleviate concerns, we're told. And that is one of the big also worries. There's several issues and worries and fears, but money is a big part. The Biden campaign has built a very robust organization. We've talked a lot about the offices that they've opened and the ads that they've been running. So it takes a lot of money. Donors are, quite frankly, either angry, worried, freaked out, et cetera. So she was on a phone call, I'm told, with some high tech donors and things, trying to ease their concern, but also specifically, as Kate was talking about, trying to turn the conversation back to Donald Trump. But she also said, Excuse me, let me look at my notes here. Someone who was on the call sent this to us. It talked specifically about the speech last night, and it said, Throughout their convention, they've been trying to act like they were trying to bring the country together. But here's the thing, if you claim to stand for unity, you need to do more than use that word. And then she goes on to say, the vice President goes on to say, Let me be clear, Trump's convention this week was one big attempt to distract people.But she left people with the idea, and she said, I feel strongly you should all take this with you when you leave. Tell your friends, we will win this election. We're going to win. One thing she didn't address, I'm told, was the state of the President's decision making. She is likely not any more read it on that than what he said publicly. He's in this campaign, so she is doing her day job, and that's to be the loyal vice President.That's interesting, Kate. Vice President Harris, she went out today and went to an ice cream shop here in Washington, DC. We've been showing video of that throughout the day. This seems to be some of Biden's playbook, if you will. He likes to go have a little ice cream himself. What do you make of that?Well, look, Vice President Harris has been both a critical governing partner for President Biden in the White House, but also a really active presence on the campaign trail. I mean, she's been carrying forth one of the most significant lines of attack that Democrats have this election cycle on Donald Trump and the Republicans, which is their attack on reproductive health and on women's freedom and their right to make their own health care decisions with their doctors. And vice President Harris has been really the standard bearer in carrying that message forward. So I don't see that. I don't see her doing this event today as anything different. Now, there may be a little more media coverage on what she's been doing of late because of this story. But I think if you look at her campaign appearances, she's been out consistently as a huge factor in this campaign, and she'll continue to be.It's interesting, Ashley, because the vice President is actually, in some of these more recent polls, in some of the key battleground states, polling better than President Biden is right now. And he said this week, this is what Biden said, she would be a great President. So why do you think he's so reluctant to step off the stage right now and give it to her?I think he thinks that he's equipped to do this job and he's prepared to do this job. That's why he's not stepping off the stage. And I think, as he said, I take him at his word that he's best positioned to beat Donald Trump. And to some degree, that is absolutely true. To your point, the vice President is doing well with that broad coalition that Biden built in 2020 to win. But many of her numbers aren't tested. You can look at Joe Biden's numbers, and if he's at 43, you can trust that that's 43 because her numbers have not suffered under the weight of millions of dollars of Republican attacks. They've just now started to attack her. So to some degree, I think the president is absolutely right. She and any other alternative is untested.

going to be an important week. You can imagine they're anticipating more defections. Reporters are going to be pressuring these members. Do you support? Do you not support? I think the President needs to to go up there, and if not him, it needs to be the vice President. They need to go up there, bring that Detroit energy, and make the case directly to the caucus. Listen, I'm in it. You raised the question. I answered your question. There shouldn't be any more doubt whether or not I'm scared. We've got to center and focus our attention now, our eyeer on Donald Trump.

Only he can deliver that message, and he can't do it via a letter. And I think what Pelosi is trying to really do to some degree is pressure him to rise to the occasion.

That's good advice from you, Ashley. Thanks Very much. Brad Todd is with us as well. The Trump campaign, Brad, is not exactly hiding that they would prefer to run against President Biden. If he were to step aside, how much would that shake up the entire 2024 race?

Well, I think first off, if he steps aside, it's most likely Kamala Harris, and she's going to own every bit of the policy that got this administration to a 38% approval rating.

If it's not Kamala Harris, the next most likely nominee is still Joe Biden.

That's what we have to accept.

And so I think you're going to see this is a challenger campaign, and challenger campaign in a wrong track year is going to run on, do you want to keep doing what they're doing?

Jeff, you have some new reporting, important new reporting about a donor call that vice President Kamala Harris, joined in on today, and these ongoing concerns about President Biden's candidacy. What are you learning?

Yeah, this was not a fundraising call. This was a call with donors to alleviate concerns, we're told. And that is one of the big also worries. There's several issues and worries and fears, but money is a big part. The Biden campaign has built a very robust organization. We've talked a lot about the offices that they've opened and the ads that they've been running. So it takes a lot of money. Donors are, quite frankly, either angry, worried, freaked out, et cetera. So she was on a phone call, I'm told, with some high tech donors and things, trying to ease their concern, but also specifically, as Kate was talking about, trying to turn the conversation back to Donald Trump. But she also said, Excuse me, let me look at my notes here. Someone who was on the call sent this to us. It talked specifically about the speech last night, and it said, Throughout their convention, they've been trying to act like they were trying to bring the country together. But here's the thing, if you claim to stand for unity, you need to do more than use that word. And then she goes on to say, the vice President goes on to say, Let me be clear, Trump's convention this week was one big attempt to distract people.

But she left people with the idea, and she said, I feel strongly you should all take this with you when you leave. Tell your friends, we will win this election. We're going to win. One thing she didn't address, I'm told, was the state of the President's decision making. She is likely not any more read it on that than what he said publicly. He's in this campaign, so she is doing her day job, and that's to be the loyal vice President.

That's interesting, Kate. Vice President Harris, she went out today and went to an ice cream shop here in Washington, DC. We've been showing video of that throughout the day. This seems to be some of Biden's playbook, if you will. He likes to go have a little ice cream himself. What do you make of that?

Well, look, Vice President Harris has been both a critical governing partner for President Biden in the White House, but also a really active presence on the campaign trail. I mean, she's been carrying forth one of the most significant lines of attack that Democrats have this election cycle on Donald Trump and the Republicans, which is their attack on reproductive health and on women's freedom and their right to make their own health care decisions with their doctors. And vice President Harris has been really the standard bearer in carrying that message forward. So I don't see that. I don't see her doing this event today as anything different. Now, there may be a little more media coverage on what she's been doing of late because of this story. But I think if you look at her campaign appearances, she's been out consistently as a huge factor in this campaign, and she'll continue to be.

It's interesting, Ashley, because the vice President is actually, in some of these more recent polls, in some of the key battleground states, polling better than President Biden is right now. And he said this week, this is what Biden said, she would be a great President. So why do you think he's so reluctant to step off the stage right now and give it to her?

I think he thinks that he's equipped to do this job and he's prepared to do this job. That's why he's not stepping off the stage. And I think, as he said, I take him at his word that he's best positioned to beat Donald Trump. And to some degree, that is absolutely true. To your point, the vice President is doing well with that broad coalition that Biden built in 2020 to win. But many of her numbers aren't tested. You can look at Joe Biden's numbers, and if he's at 43, you can trust that that's 43 because her numbers have not suffered under the weight of millions of dollars of Republican attacks. They've just now started to attack her. So to some degree, I think the president is absolutely right. She and any other alternative is untested.