A former member of the House January sixth Committee, which heard in great detail from Shane Moss and Ruby Freeman, CNN senior political commentator and former Illinois Republican Congresswoman, Adam Kinsiger, joins us. What does it, Sidney, that Rudy Giuliani, A, did not end up testifying before this case went to the jury, which makes sense from a legal standpoint, even though he and his attorney previously said he would?

Well, look, this is what Rudy Giuliani does. This is what, frankly, Donald Trump does, and this is what others in the Trump camp do, which is they say they have evidence. Rudy Giuliani is like, What is your evidence? He's like, Stay tuned. Okay, how many times have we been told to stay tuned? And what happens is the people that hear that. They believe that Rudy now has evidence, and then they don't see the follow-up about him not testifying and him not saying anything. I think it goes to show, obviously, he's a pathological liar or he's insane, and I'm not quite sure he's insane. I just think it's important to note at this moment because I was thinking about this in the lead-up here is how far this guy has fallen. It's incredible. Any other day, I think when he will die someday, they would have named every elementary school in every town, Rudy Giulianae Elementary, and he threw that all away. It's sad.

I just, again, want to play the clip of Giuliana outside the court Monday attacking, again, Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss, even though his lawyer acknowledged in court that they had suffered harm. Let's play this.

But everything I said about them is true. Do you regret what you did to Ruby? Of course I don't regret. I told the truth. They were engaged in changing votes. There's no proof of that. Oh, you're damn right there is. Stay tuned.

I would say it's embarrassing, but he has no shame. So it's certainly not embarrassing for him.

No, shamelessness is a superpower. It's one for him. That was the whole stay tuned at the end. There's no, Oh, well, stay tuned. I'll give you that. How many times has the, My pillow guy has Rudy Giuliani, has Donald Trump said, There's evidence. Stay tuned. It's coming. We're on the edge of it. It's just a liar. And the other thing that's sad, and again, this is Rudy and others, is how they consistently punch down. You pick two innocent women that probably got paid almost nothing to count votes that day, and you pick them. Why? Well, let's be honest, because they're black. And that's when Rudy Giuliani was talking about they passed this thumb drive like it was a vial of crack or whatever he said. Well, that's an interesting thing to say. And as she mentioned it, I think it was Shay that had said they were passing gingerments to each other. But what they do is this is a fascist way, frankly, of intimidating political opponents. Who's going to want to go work counting votes in the future if you think you could get called out like this. This is what we have to be aware of.

This is an attempt to scare people, and Rudy Giuliani should pay a huge sum.

I remember their testimony before the Generative Six Committee, which were you on. I want to play a bit of Ms. Moss's testimony, which describes the impact that these lies have had on her life.

This turned my life upside down. I no longer give out my business card. I don't transfer calls. I don't want anyone knowing my name. I don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name out of the grocery aisle or something. I don't go to the grocery store at all. I haven't been anywhere at all.

And yet people hear that, and plenty of people continue to believe the lies about the 2020 election being stolen. I mean...

At some point, people have to look in their heart and determine what a human being do you want to be. And I can't answer that for you, but if you want to be the human being that thinks it's funny or it's okay that two innocent women feel like they can't go to the grocery store. And I understand that feeling. I chose what I did on January sixth. I knew some of the impacts that were going to come. They didn't do anything but decide to serve their community. And their names are probably better recognized than mine. Almost as recognized as yours, Anderson. They didn't ask for that. They just wanted to serve their country, and they have to live with this the rest of their life. And look, most Americans, probably when they see them, will thank them, will call them heroic, as they are. But there is a certain number of Americans out there that have been convinced that truly believe they are part of this satanic plot to overthrow God's chosen one, Donald Trump. It's just such a twisted logic. It's sad. As Americans, we have to think about what humans and what country we want to be.

Yeah. And again, your point about him, he's going to one day be found in some hotel room somewhere, dead on the floor by the housekeeper who comes in to do room service and there'll be a bottle of bourbon somewhere in the room and the obituaries are going to be brutal. This is this man's legacy.

Yeah. I think everybody, no matter who you are, you think about what is my legacy going to be? How am I going to be remembered? I'm only 45 and I think about those things. But he could have gone from America's mayor this hero. I mean, he still can redeem himself if he comes out and tells the truth. But he has turned into a joke. And it's sad to see. And there are so many people in Donald Trump's orbit that have done the same thing.

Adam Kinsiger, thanks so much. Just to be clear on exactly what Juliana falsely said, Shay Moss and Ruby Friedmann were passing around. It was, Passing around USB ports like they were vials of heroin or cocaine.