What took place in Michigan. Michael, it sounds like another part of this pressure campaign that Donald Trump was waging across the country.

Well, it sounds exactly like the conversation that Donald had with Brad Rafeinsberger to try to apply pressure in order to obtain what he wants, and that was to be able to retain power. I've been saying for so long now that there was a quote that Vladimir Putin once made that Donald thought was genius. And the quote is, It doesn't matter who you vote for. All that matters is who's counting the vote. And that's what Donald Trump was trying to effectuate here. And you're right, when that recording comes out, just like all the recordings that have come out that have Donald's voice on it, none of them are good for him. Every single one shows exactly what it is that Donald wanted to be accomplished. The problem, though, is that there's still this group of Americans, these maga supporters, that it doesn't matter what they hear. It doesn't matter what they see. They're still so knee-deep into this dumpster cult of Donald that they refuse to extricate themselves.

But you know what Trump is going to say if and when this recording comes out? He'll say it was yet another perfect phone call. He uses that same excuse every time, that same comment every time.

Because it works so far in his mind with the Raffensberger matter. So why not continue on the same path? If it worked once before for him, he'll try it again.

Is there any reason to think that Trump would not do the same thing again next year if he becomes a Republican nominee? If he comes up short the next time. People forget he lost by seven million votes the last time around. He could lose by nine or 10 million, I guess, this next time around. Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that he'll again try to launch a pressure campaign, twist the arms of election workers like he did last time around?

Well, look, that was the whole goal in bringing in the local representatives, the GOP representatives, to try to effectuate a control over the votes. Of course, it's all part of his plan, which is to take back the White House, and he'll do it at any cost. That's Donald Trump. Again, don't take it from me. Don't take it from others. Just listen to the words that Donald Trump always says, which is that he is a winner and that he won. They continue to perpetuate the big lie again and again and again. Why? Well, because he truly believes that he needs to be in power. And not so much in order to benefit America or the American people, but it's really to save himself, his company, and to attain significant wealth.

And what do you think about the Supreme Court not taking on an expedited basis this question as to whether or not Trump has immunity, presidential immunity. Is that a big deal in your mind? Because as you know, Michael, this could slow things down. That can often benefit Trump. What's your sense of it?

Well, there's another thing I've been talking about for years, Donald Trump's tactic, which is delay, delay, delay. Let me be very clear about something. Yes, it's important. It's important for all of America to understand where the Supreme Court stands on this issue. But this does not exonerate him. Everybody's saying, Oh, this is a big win for Trump and the Trump team. It is not. All it does is it changes around the schedule of the cases that Donald Trump, the four indictments that he is going to be charged with, or I should say that he's being prosecuted on. So if hypothetically, this case with Judge Chuckin, because the court does not come forward with a decision early enough, and that, of course, is March fourth, okay, the next case will be up. And that's the Alvin Bragg case, March 25th. That case will go first, as opposed to second. So it does not benefit, Donald, the way that the media is trying to portray it. It's just a change of the schedule on the four cases and maybe possibly even the fifth.

Yeah, well, let me ask you about the Colorado Supreme Court disqualifying Trump from its primary ballot on the basis that he was part of an insurrection on January sixth. This is how he reacted on Friday. Let's listen to that talk about it.

They're trying to take the election away from the voters. This is the same group, I guess it's crew. I've beaten them about 20 times. I beat them on a monument. They sued me. They sued me on anything. It's a group of radical left lunatics, and they sue anytime they can. This one is really a crazy one. If they ever did that, it would be so bad for this country. You have no idea.

Yeah, Michael, one of the questions I have, and this is something I think you could directly address because you were around Trump for so long, Trump is accustomed to one legal entanglement here or there over the course of a year or two, not several cases all at the same time. I'm wondering what you think this is doing to him, the pressure that this is putting on him? Is it making him more desperate? When you listen to how he's talking about these things, is there a sense of desperation in his voice that you're hearing and the words that he's using? What's your sense of it?

Well, what he's doing is he's inciting his base. That's really what it's about because the more he incites them, the more money that they raise. And a lot of people forget that with Donald's pack, he has complete control over 90 % of all of the money at his complete discretion. He can use 90 % of that money the way that he wants. So he will continue to ride this drift as long as he can. As far as being desperate, unfortunately, Donald doesn't see things the way most people see them. If the case is coming up in March for him, that's an eternity away. It's only when it's around the corner, several days out or a week or so out, does it really start to hit him? Oh, my gosh. This is really coming up, and I'm going to have to defend it. Remember, the four cases that are now pending against him have legitimate jail time. They say that if he's charged and found guilty on all the charges, he could potentially be sentenced to over 700 years. That's a crazy, crazy number. So he will continue to ride this same ideology over and over and over again.

It's all in order to keep his base incited, and it's all about the griff to raise more and more money.

Well, and so that raises the question because a lot of folks have made the the point. Michael, I don't know what your take is on this, but we can get it, is that these cases really helped him. It helped him consolidate the Republican base, the Trump base that might have gone over to DeSantis or Nikki Haley. Because he's been able to play the victim throughout all of this, it's really aligned the base behind him. Has it been to his benefit, all these cases? Or do you think you have to put that thought out of your mind and pursue justice wherever it leads?

You have to put it right out of your mind. Look, this is a man who said that he could shoot and kill someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it when it comes to his base, and he can. This is just proof positive. But the base only amounts to what? 28 % of the electorate, you cannot win in the general election with just the base. And what these cases are doing is it's sending... Right now, we don't these polls. I don't have much faith in any of these polls. When you start to see, let's say, the black community or the Hispanic community or the Muslim community now rising as supporter of Trump, I don't buy it. I don't buy any of it, simply because his first actions are going to be against the same group that the polls are showing he's rising in. It's just nonsensical to me. And I don't know who's conducting these polls or what, but I believe that for his base, yes, continuing to play victim is always going to benefit him. But in the general election, it will not. People on the Republican side will either not vote because they won't vote for a Democrat or what they will do is they will just not vote at all.

First of all, I know nothing about Hitler. I'm not a student of Hitler. I never read his works. They say that he said something about blood. He didn't say it the way I said it either, by the way. A very different a statement. What I'm saying when I talk about people coming into our country is they are destroying our country.

Michael, you just heard Trump say he knows nothing about Hitler. That's what he said there. What do you think about that?

Of course, he knows nothing about it because hes not sure he doesn't read. It's not true, obviously. It's just added to the plethora of lies that he has told the American people while he was President or post his presidency. For God's sakes, it's word for word out of Hitler's mouth, regurgitated by Donald, and then all of a sudden it's not the same thing, right? And now, of course, he's trying to walk it back. But that's something that he has done again and over and over and over again.

Yeah, Michael, Vanity Fair had an article back in 1990 in which Ivana, Trump, his first wife, apparently said that Trump kept a book of Hitler quotes, maybe not Mind Conf, but of Hitler quotes, by his bed. There have been multiple accounts of Trump having a fascination with Hitler. Did you ever pick up on this? What's that.

All about? You remember in my first book, Disloyal, I talked about how I was sitting with another employee of the Trump organization who happens to be German of German descent. Donald, knowing that my father is a Holocaust survivor, who literally turned around, stopped the conversation and made mention. He goes, I bet your family chased Michael's family through the Red Forest. I wrote about this, what, three years ago, plus? So the fact is everything that I have been saying for years now, it slowly drips out to be factually accurate. I mean, it's just... It's who he is. And if he thinks that he could lie and get away with it, well, that's just what he's going to do. He's gotten very good at it.