I guess, first of all, the images of this tunnel are just mind boggling here. What is your take on all this? What was your reaction to that when you saw that?

Jim, my reaction is this is what Israel has been talking about since the beginning of this conflict, they knew that these tunnels existed. I mean, we've been showing on CNN the single file tunnels that you almost have to squeeze through. But you can't conduct an operation of literally thousands of terrorists when you're squeezing them all through. So you're talking about a tunnel. In this case, it's 50 meters, about 200 feet or so underground that has the capability to hold weapons, have large meeting spaces, travel around, and even bring vehicles in. It's just part of the network that's subterrain and under the Gaza that Hamas has been building for the last several years, in fact, close to a decade, and how they have been shifting the money away from the Palestinian citizens to build these things, to construct their military apparatus. And it's just mind boggling. It is, but it also shows the difficulty of fighting in this subterraining environment.

Yeah, our Jeremy Diamond was saying just a short while ago that this tunnel is almost big enough or maybe big enough for vehicles to move through. That is a different tunnel. There's no question about it. In general, today the IDF announced it's taken control of parts of Khan Younus in southern Georgia. The Hamas-run health ministry also reported an Israeli airstrike in northern Georgia. What's your sense of things right now? President Biden has been concerned about what he's described as indiscriminate bombing in Gaza. But what's your sense of where things stand right now tonight?

I'm not in concurrence, Jim, with the indiscriminate bombing. It may be somewhat excessive, and we could talk about that. But from the very beginning of this conflict, starting eight weeks ago, you and I were talking about how they would start in Northern Georgia, in Casa City, and then go to potentially Han, Younus, then to Dar Abala, and then even down south into Rafe. The Israeli government has said this operation will take many more months, whereas many of the United States administration is saying they'd like to see it ended in terms of the kinetic operation by the end of December. I've said from the beginning, I don't think that's going to happen given the size and strength of the Hamas terrorist groups that are in these subterrain tunnels. And we're seeing in each section of Gaza that there are more and more underground headquarters. And Hamas has been very diligent in terms of setting traps for the Israeli forces as they go through. So anyone that says, Hey, we ought to shift from using air power to ground and special operations forces, that's easy to say on the outside. But truthfully, with some of the constructs that we've seen Hamas using, these underground networks and some of the uses of civilian buildings have to be struck.

I think it will continue on. Secretary Austin is going to discuss that with the Israeli government over the next couple of days. But I think we're going to see a continuation of these strikes until Israel determines that Hamas is defeated.

I did want to ask you about the three Israeli hostages who were mistakenly killed by the IDF. We've talked to a variety of people this weekend, and I certainly want to get your take on all of this. When I spoke with the IDF spokesman, Jonathan Conradis, yesterday, he really didn't indicate that there's going to be a major shift in their tactics or rules of engagement. They're going to remind their soldiers that they may come across hostages from time to time who have escaped captivity, and they need to be able to recognize that. But the three men came out of a building shirtless, waving a white flag. They were shot anyway. The IDF says those troops were not following the proper rules of engagement. But Colonel Conricas was saying, Look, we have Hamas fighters who are pretending to be civilians, who are doing things to draw in IDF forces to entrap them and kill them. It is such a messy, chaotic battlefield. I'm wondering, General, what's your advice in all this?

Well, I don't have any advice, Jim, but truthfully, what I would say is Hamas and any terrorist organization is going to use deception and trickery. You add to that the fact that the conditions of the battlefield, as you just said, and I would bet that the hostages, as they came out of the building, probably did not look like the clean cut young men we see in their photos that have been appearing on air. They've been in captivity for two months. The soldiers, the Israeli soldiers who were always anxious in any firefight with adrenaline, surgeon, and especially depending on what their level of training and experiences. Truthfully, Jim, I had a fratricide incident in a command I was in in Iraq, and it devastates the individuals who shoot their fellow citizens. And in this case, I'm sure it's not only devastated whoever engaged those three hostages, but I would believe that this is rippled through the Israeli Defense Forces, and they are attempting to conduct their operations according to rules of engagement. But truthfully, as you just said, the conditions on this battlefield are extremely complex and complicated. You don't know who the enemy is. When people hop out of buildings, especially buildings, as the Israelis have been showing, contain a vast amount of ammunition and they contain ambush sites, it's very difficult to differentiate.

But I believe that the Israeli Defense Forces will review their roles of engagement. I know their chief of staff has addressed this issue with all of their soldiers in the fight right now, but it's tough. It's really heartbreaking.

Yeah, very heartbreaking. All right, General Hartling, great to have you on us, as always. Thanks so much.