A calling card for insurrectionists flying in plain view outside of the house of an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. Tonight, The New York Times published a report capturing, through the interviews and photos, an upside-down American flag hoisted outside of Samuel Alito's home in Alexandria, Virginia. The pictures are from January 17th, 2021, 11 days after rioters stormed the US Capitol to stop Congress from certifying the 2020 election. Now, Alito publishing a full stop denial in response to the report saying, I had no involvement whatsoever in the flying of the flag. It was briefly placed by Mrs. Alito in response to a neighbor's use of objectionable and personally insulting language on yard signs. Now, we haven't yet heard from the Supreme Court about all of this, but what is missing from Alito's response? A denial that it happened at all, much less remorse or regret that it did. Also missing, any disavowal of the symbol claimed by those who sought to overthrow the government. Joining us now, Jody Cantor. She is the New York Times correspondent who broke this massive story tonight. Jody, how on Earth. I have a lot of questions for you.

I'm curious about how this happened, but I'm also curious about how you found out about it.

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Let's start with the reaction of the people who saw the flag. Neighbors were also filtered back to the Supreme Court, and all they're seeing is this upside down flag, which at the time was one of the symbols of the Stop the Steel campaign. We're talking about the period just after January sixth, but also three days before President Biden's inauguration. So people are just stupified by it. First of all, it's a very controversial gesture to turn the flag upside down. But also a very basic thing about federal judges that everybody knows is that they are supposed to appear totally fair and impartial. They aren't supposed to participate in politics or do anything to even suggest the appearance that they're not going to handle something fairly. So the first thing people felt was really just very great surprise. And this wasn't up there for just 10 minutes. What neighbors say is that it was for a few days.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to go back to the statement here from Mr. Alito, or Justice Alito. He says, It was briefly placed by Mrs. Alito in response to a neighbor's use of objectionable and personally insulting language. Briefly is doing a lot of work there. I wouldn't characterize a couple of days as that, especially in that time period that you described. But the other thing is, the court's rule book about the conduct of employees is pretty specific. You cannot publicly oppose or support partisan political organizations or candidates. Bumper stickers are off limits, stating political positions on social media. They may not engage in non-partisan political activity if the activity could reflect adversely on the dignity or impartiality on the court. That's clear for employees. The wife of a Supreme Court justice, if you were to take this statement at face value, may be another story. But if it's flying outside of the home, how is anybody supposed to know?

That's why judicial ethics experts are concerned. They say that, okay, let's take this story at face value. Let's say it was Mrs. Alito. These rules are still about the appearance of impropriety, and that's because it's about trust in the system. For democracy to work, we all need to respect these institutions. We all need to feel that they're fair. And any action that creates doubt in that is a negative thing. And that's especially true given what's happening now. Everybody's focusing, I understand why, on the proximity to January 20th, the inauguration, January sixth. But I want to point out that at this moment, we are waiting for the Supreme Court to rule on two blockbuster January sixth cases that are really going to shape accountability for those actors, including former President Trump. They're going to shape the legacy of January sixth, and they may even help determine the course of the next election. So one of the questions is, when these decisions come out, will Americans react to them with a sense of trust and respect? And even if I disagree with this, I believe it was decided fairly.

I mean, there's no question there has been an erosion in the trust in the court. I mean, again, taking this statement at face value, let's say it was Mrs. Alito. You would have Mrs. Alito and Mrs. Thomas, both perhaps espousing beliefs, strong beliefs, about something that is before the court, issues that are before the court. And neither of those individuals have recused. The recusal rules seem basically, I mean, it's more or less up to the justice's discretion. Is that about right?

So it's interesting. It's a binding federal statute, so it does apply to Supreme Court justices. The court has said that it's for individual justices to determine. I think the question of whether this fact pattern is a cause for recusal is something for the experts to debate. We just broke this news tonight, and I'm curious to see how the legal world reacts. But there are a number of issues. There are the recusal issues about whether he should participate in this case. And there's the question of the code of conduct for judges and whether this behavior meets that bar. And if not, what anybody can do about it, because the Supreme Court, by definition, is the last word, and nobody else supervises the justices.

Yeah, that's why the appearance of impropriety is so problematic there. What's amazing, Jody, is also, I mean, this being scuttled but for basically four years in that neighborhood and among the court, and then finally coming out when it did.Thank you for joining usThank you.with all of this reporting.