Republicans have been standing by former President Donald Trump since last week when he was convicted of 34 felony counts in the New York Hush Money Trial. They're taking cues from Trump, who's also been flirting with the topic of revenge.

Well, revenge does take time. I will say that. It does. Sometimes revenge can be justified, Phil. I have to be honest. Sometimes it can. Look, when this election is over, based on what they've done, I would have every right to go after them. And it's easy because it's Joe Biden.

Cnn political commentator and columnist at the New York Daily News, SE Cup, and CNN commentator and New York Times journalist, Lulu Garcia Navarro, both join me now. Great to have you both here with us on this Saturday. Essie, let's start with you. We just heard that clip from the former President. Is this a winning strategy, revenge?

Well, it is with his base. He knows his base very well, and they've been into this long before the trials. He ran on a politics of revenge the first time in 2015 and 2016, and carried that through his campaign. Remember, Lock Her Up, remember, Mexico is going to pay for sending their rapists and their criminals. They're going to pay for the wall. His politics of revenge was predicated on his personal grievances, but it was also on behalf of the perceived grievances of his voters. It's why they like him. So, yes, the answer is yes. This works for him and his base. What it does not work for are all of those independents and undecideds in the swing states that he will need to win this election.

Right. I want to get to some new polling on those in a minute that's very interesting, but you're exactly right. It is that sliver of these more moderate voters, these swing voters. Lulu, how might the Biden campaign then effectively respond to this type of rhetoric and try to win over those voters with a different message?

Well, forcefully, I think. Trump is trying to paint this as some righteous retribution, and it's not. And it's not for those swing and independent voters and soft Democrats that he really needs, those Nikki Haley voters, for example. What Trump is talking about is using the government to prosecute his personal political enemies. And you can argue about Trump's conviction, but he was judged guilty by a jury in a fair trial. And this was a state trial. This wasn't a federal trial. The federal government had nothing to do with it. And so Democrats feel that Trump's calls for personal vengeance are good for them.

All right, so Essie, let's go to this new polling. It's from Fox News. It's from battleground states. They're all within the margin of error, which just underscores how very tight this race is. But we see there Trump up by five in Arizona and Nevada, almost four in Florida. What is interesting here, I thought, too, Virginia Virginia is tied. Joe Biden handily beat Trump there in 2020 by 10 points. What do you make of all of these together, and specifically that Virginia poll, Essie?

Yeah, these swing states are going to be super important. They are going to decide this election. And it was close last time in swing states. Remember, Joe Biden won Georgia by only 11,000 votes. It was even tighter in some other places. So that's where both of these candidates really need to be pouring their effort and attention into. And those polls Now, when you pierce the layers of them, there are plenty of undecided and independent voters who are not into the politics of revenge, who don't think the trial was good for Trump. Are having thoughts about what that means for Trump and voting for a convicted felon. So it is important, but it really just underscores how close this election will be. There are other states from Virginia to Minnesota, where the race is tightening as well. We could see adding those as swing states this year. So it's a super, super tight race. Every vote is going to count.

Yeah. And Lulu, as the Biden campaign tries to sell their message and what they've done in the last four years. They do have this list of legislative accomplishments that they want to be talking about. They want to be talking about an infrastructure bill that's putting jobs in different states, but it does not seem to be breaking through in these places.

Yeah, I mean, we've I've actually seen other polls show a small but significant movement towards Biden in the wake of the conviction, especially among soft Democrats who might be disengaged, voters of color that had been going towards Trump, and now in the wake of the conviction, seem to be pulling back. So I do think this is a very fluid race. But yes, to your point, there's no question that Biden is struggling, and he needs his surrogates out much more aggressively because he's not the best messenger for his own message. We've seen that repeatedly. When people see him, they see him as old, they see him as frail, they wonder about whether he really has enough in the tank to go the distance. Democrats really need to get their surrogates out and really bring the Democrats' message to the people.

And I see so much about this is creating contrast where they can between these two candidates for voters. And I'm thinking back to this last week where President Biden, right now he's meeting with President Macron in France. But previous to that, he's marking the 80th anniversary of D-Day. He's talking about democracy in the world and the Western Alliance. And you do contrast that with what former President Trump has said about NATO, the message he's putting out right now. When you take that in totality, what do you take away from it in watching those side by sides last week?

I mean, they should be reminders that Joe Biden has a much better relationship with our allies and where Trump had a much a better relationship with our enemies, and seemed to want an even cozier one. But I got to be honest, Jessica, when we go out, we talk to voters, this isn't really top of mind right now. They're worried about the economy, crime, immigration, women's reproductive rights, this melange of domestic issues that are very frightening for a lot of voters on both sides of the aisle, depending on what you're asking them about. That's what's driving them to the polls this year. That's what both of these candidates need to be talking about, not revenge, and not on the other side, on Biden's side, pretending that things are rosier than people feel they are.

Lulu, do you agree? Just as we wrap up here, do you agree with that assessment from Essie there?

Yeah, I do agree with that assessment. Biden is trying to show that he's the leader of the free world, that the danger to the free world now comes from Trump and his plans for the United States. And what was interesting to me was seeing that indeed, the United States's traditional allies embraced Biden on this visit, and really, I think, seem to support that message. But at the end of the day, I don't think that that's going to be what wins this election. What wins this election is, as Essie was saying, domestic issues.

All right, Lulu and Essie, thanks to you both. I appreciate it. Good to see you.