Look, I believe that this time last week, we were watching President Trump give his speech at the RNC to accept the nomination after having picked JD Vance as his running mate. I went to bed Saturday night, well aware that Republicans were getting ready to steamroll Joe Biden. And by the time I got to brunch at STK, Joe Biden was out of the race, and Kamala Harris was on her way to becoming the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party without a single vote cast in her name. And But irrespective of how you feel about that, I would say that whether you want to see it as a critique of President Trump or not, you see a Trump team responding in real-time to a political landscape that is moving at warped speed. I believe if we just had a nomination where we had a whole week dropping balloons to say we're going to beat a man who's no longer in the race, I would say that having a little bit of reservation as to figuring out what's actually going to happen with the Democrats is probably a good thing.

Do you think that the world is moving a little bit too fast for Donald Trump right now? Life came at him fast, and he wasn't ready for it.

Respectfully, I think the world's moving a little too fast for everyone. I would say that there's plenty of documented evidence that when you look in the aftermath of tragedies, that there is PTSD across the country. I think that whether you hate President Trump or love him, we were this close away from not having a country that we should all be on our knees thanking God that President Trump was not struck by that bullet. Even if you're looking at that, the unprecedented action of President Biden, whether you agree with it or not, for to step aside, the first time since 1968. This whole country has whiplets. And so, yes, I think things are moving quickly, and I think it behooves the Trump campaign, whether you want to vote for him or not, to do exactly what they're doing right now, absent perhaps the name calling, which I think, as we're going to probably talk about at the end of the show, is not going to benefit the Republicans in any way.

If Trump was saying that he was recovering from the attempt on his life and he needed more time to get his stuff together, that would be one thing. But that's not what he's saying. What What he's saying is that he's scared of debating Harris. That's what you're saying. And there's no reason if he is as strong as you guys think that he is, there is no reason for him to be scared. Remember, he just had a debate against the former presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, where Trump once so hard, the man dropped out. Correct. So one would think that if Trump was as strong as he appears to be, that he would have no problems debating Kamala Harris. But instead, he's calling her names.

The race has changed to your point, Joe.

I get why you're making that argument. I'm just saying it is not the only argument. I would submit once again that if you're looking at a Democratic Party that I would argue strategically decided to have a very, very late actual convention, and now you're looking at, again, this prospect of Kamala Harris being the nominee, no one has voted for her. Whether you think that she's the right choice or not, I think you have to say that that's probably not what was the intent of the two-party system. So yes, I think the Democratic Party is doing what they think is in their best interest, and I do believe President Trump is doing what he believes is the best interest.

I have to say on the two-party system thing, I hear this argument a lot, but the idea that they have primaries, that's just what people have come up with. There's nothing in the Constitution that says that parties need to come up with their nomination.

There is the letter of the law, and there is the spirit of the law.

I know, but I'm just saying that's a feature of modernity. By the rules of the individual parties, they can choose their company however they want.

No one is saying that they can't do it. I'm just saying that I would like the Democrats to just come out and acknowledge that they don't care. Again, as I've said, many times.

I want to-Harris was on the ticket, right? Yeah, Millions of people voted for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That all happened. I was there. It was 2020. Times were crazy. I voted for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

But I was there. But the assumption is that- They voted for her also in the primary as well. This all did take place.

This is a fascinating conversation, but at the end At the end of the day, this is not what's going to pick who the next President is. It's the 10% in the middle. And whichever party decides to stop playing tribalism, Republicans and Democrats both are feeding their own. Whoever decides to figure out how can we make a message work for the 10% in the middle. Donald Trump's press release today with all those name calling, JD Vances, all of his name calling and misgivings, are not working towards winning the 10% in the middle. If Kamala Harris is able to get some leniency from her base over the next few months, where they say, Look, you've got our vote. We're going to show up, we're going to vote We're going to go for you. We're going to support you. Go win the audience that you need to win this race with, and give her the opportunity to have a conversation with the 10% in the middle. Folks like me that maybe don't agree with all the policies but cannot imagine what four more years with Donald Trump would look like.

Can I ask you, Jeff, I want to play this Kamala Harris ad, and I'm just curious what this does for someone like you, as you said, maybe right there in the middle.

Freedom. Personal freedom is fundamental to who we are as Americans. There's nothing more important, nothing more sacred. That's been the work of my first term, to fight for our democracy. This shouldn't be a red or blue issue. To protect our rights, to make sure that everyone in this country is treated equally, and that everyone is given a fair shot at making it.

The freedom not just to get by, but get ahead. The freedom to be safe from gun violence. The freedom to make decisions about your own body. We choose a future where no child lives in poverty, where we can all afford health care, where no one is above the law.

Same message, totally different messenger. Actually, just watching them back to back, it's like a tonal shift. Does that change anything Is that for you?

Absolutely. You're speaking to the middle. You have a younger candidate that's willing to talk about the issues. Look, very few people are going to agree in my 10% block with the policies of the left. We're just not, but we also care more about this country's future. I don't believe there's a single policy out there that would cause me to light this country on fire. I want to protect the Second Amendment. I want to have freedom of speech. I want to protect the border. I want to have lower inflate, all those things. But I don't think there's one issue that we light the country on fire over. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing is I'm playing the bank shot of supporting a Democrat so I can actually have a Republican Party that I recognize at some point in the near future.

Look, I'll simply say this. I believe in granting grace to those who we disagree with politically. I understood intellectually how there were Republicans who believe that somehow Joe Biden would govern as a moderate, particularly with the slim majorities that we had in the House, in the Senate. We are now living in the thereafter. Here in the thereafter, We did not get that Joe Biden, and I don't believe that you would be getting that Kamala Harris. And so, yes, I do believe that for many Republicans and many people in the middle, looking at the border, looking at the economy, looking at the fact that we've had Congressional testimony that we have terrorist cells operating in this country, that it is an existential threat to our country. Not everyone is going to agree with that, but I do believe that is part of what's on the ballot as well.

But I think you didn't answer Jeff's question, which is saying, what Jeff, I hear you saying is that there are things more important than your particular policy preference on the border. There are things more important than your particular policy preference on corporate tax rates. Those things that are more important are whether or not we have a democracy that we can all believe in, whether or not we have the rule of law apply in this country. What Jeff, I hear you saying is that those things are elevated above the usual petty partisan squabbles and concerns.

I do not believe anything is elevated over preventing the next 9/11-style attack in this country, which we are quickly courting by virtue of the policies that are in place. So yes, I understand that there are people who are going to have a different checklist of what they believe is important for America to survive. My checklist, and the checklist of a great many Americans, starts with the fact you cannot have millions of people coming to our country that are undocumented. You do not have the ability to go asylum shopping. We should have compassion for all of those who are fleeing oppression. But that does not mean that we do not have to have a sovereign border and everything, from the economy to the border, to the chaos on the global stage that was supposed to be quelled simply by electing Joe Biden, is why many people are looking at President Trump who didn't vote for him the first time or the second time. It's also why you see those numbers so close.

Your checklist seems to start with people who are coming into this country. Why doesn't your checklist start with people like you, people who are already in this country and what rights they will have in this country?

My checklist is in response to what my friend here is talking about as it relates to, is there an existential threat to the country itself collapsing? If you're talking about what's happening within the borders of this country? Oh, there was a whole lot to talk about. We could talk about environmental policies passed by the left that make absolutely no sense. A nuclear plant here in New York State that gets shut down and admissions go up 30%. So there's a whole lot of policies going on in between the walls of this nation that don't make a whole lot of sense.

Here's what I'll say. We'll continue this conversation in just a moment. But I think what Jeff is also talking about is that Donald Trump has actually done a really big thing to try to undermine democracy, which is to claim falsely that he won the last election and to urge his supporters to basically riot at the Capitol.

I sat in the front row of that conversation in Georgia. I sat there. I know Brad Raffensberger. I talk to Brad Raffensberger and Gabe Sterling every day. I talk to Governor Kemp. I watch the lies come. I watched, I listened to the death threats come into my family. I watched guards outside my house, outside my office, all because I was a Republican, and I wouldn't lie like Donald Trump did about the election being rigged. Every issue you raised were absolute issues. The border, inflation, foreign policy. All those are important. I wish we were having those exact conversations as Republicans, and we were able to own those conversations. But instead, we have a flawed candidate who tried to usurp democracy, and now he's trying to fake his way back into the front door. He was a fake Republican for the first four years, and he'd be a dangerous fake Republican the next four years.

I'll just say this. What happened to your family shouldn't happen to anybody in this country. It could be solved in one second.

If Donald Trump picked up a microphone, instead of calling names, if he sent out a press release and said, Stop, don't do it on my behalf or under my name. He said, Four He's got years to do it, and he hasn't done it once.

Well, look, again, I understand your position. I think my position is that the policies that are being passed by Kamala Harris and being passed by Joe Biden that will continue to be passed, but will probably look more like the fourth term of Barack Obama than the first term of some type of quantum leap forward for Kamala Harris, just my opinion, is so dangerous to the actual stability of this country that I believe that, flawed or not, continued. I just want to say, just for the record, we had two terms of Barack Obama, and the country did not fall apart, and we didn't have criminals trying to overturn their election. So the idea that the next term of Barack Obama will be some different existential threat doesn't link up with what actually happened when Barack Obama was President.We're going to leave it there.

continued. I just want to say, just for the record, we had two terms of Barack Obama, and the country did not fall apart, and we didn't have criminals trying to overturn their election. So the idea that the next term of Barack Obama will be some different existential threat doesn't link up with what actually happened when Barack Obama was President.

We're going to leave it there.