Hi, my name is Don Cheadle, and I feel delighted about being Conan O'Brien. Friend fall is here.

Hear the yell back to school ring.

The bell bend the shoes walk and.

Lose climb the fence books and pens.

I can tell that we are gonna be friends.

I can tell that we are gonna be friends hey, there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien. Needs a friend, and I am Conan O'Brien. I'm saying that the way, you know, someone would say, I am Spartacus.

It sounds more like an alien or a robot trying to prove that they're human. I swear I am Conan O'Brien.

I swear I am the aforementioned form known as Conan O'Brien.

Come at me, bro.

Hi. Five me with your appendage. Joined by Matt Gorley. Matt, nice to see you. Hi. And Sona McCain. How are you? I'm all right.

I'm not doing bad. I'm not doing bad.

Not doing.

What is up with you, too?

I'm not doing bad.

You're not doing bad?

Yeah. That came out weird. I don't know why I said it.

How is your life going? Everything all right?

Everything's fine. Oh, you know, yesterday I was at a target, and I was looking at the laxatives. I shouldn't say this.

Okay. We don't need to know what you were looking at. But anyway.

No, because it's part of the story. It's because it's a thing.

It's.

I was looking at laxatives because one of my kids is constipated.

Okay? That happens.

Yeah. And he's a kid. And two two of our fans came up while I was looking at the laxatives to tell me they're big fans of the show.

That's nice. Were you at all embarrassed that they came up to you while you were looking at laxatives?

Not only was I embarrassed, but if they didn't notice it, I was like, I'm looking at laxatives for my kid. I'm like, it's not for me. And then I was like, well, if I'm constipated, that's human too. It's okay.

Yeah.

So I was like, but it's okay if I'm constipated. And then they I think they. I was just rambling so much. I think they really regretted approaching me.

Yeah. I had this happen to me. Fans approached me as I was walking into buttplugs r us, and they had a. They had a seven.

For your kids or what?

No, no, definitely not for my kids. This was for me. I was just walking right in. And they, I mean, you remember they went out of business, but this was, they were big. They had every butt plug, and they had that mascot.

The butt plug mascot.

Yeah.

Corky.

Yeah. Corky. Corky. It was quirky. And anyway, so I'm walking in and they're like, whoa, Conan O'Brien, we love, you know, we love the podcast and the videos and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And I had to kind of, I panicked, and I just said, I'm just going in here to check it out, you know?

But that doesn't help you.

No, it didn't at all. And, and I think they could tell the way I was walking that I already had one.

Or two.

I was wearing the grandmaster, it's called. Yeah.

Oh, no. Yeah.

It really.

Oh, God.

Yeah. And that was not, I had not purchased it. It was a gift.

That's right up there with the 1776 er.

Yeah, exactly. So anyway, I'm headed in, and these fans see me, and then you're just like, you got to get over it. You got to let people know that we're all human. Some of us do you know what I mean?

Yes.

We all.

By butt plug.

Sure. I'm guessing everyone I'm talking to right now is listening. Is like, yep, me too. But anyway, that happens where sometimes you're seen in a situation. Has it ever happened to you, Matt, where you've been spotted somewhere and people say, oh, you're Matt Gorley, the guy who irritates Conan, and you're in the middle of something that you wish was private?

I mean, I was probably already doing something embarrassing, like at some, like, you'd say, like at some flea market or something. So they'd probably come up and go, oh, this is exactly what I expected.

Right? Because you were probably looking at, like, a loot at the Rose bowl swap meet, and you were thinking of buying.

I was looking at cold war butt plugs. The Eisenhower. The Eisenhower, if you can find it.

Right?

Boy.

Yeah. I just think. I think it's nice, though. I bet you were very nice to them. You seem like you'd be very nice to them.

I still get very excited when people are fans and they recognize me. It's cool.

I had a nice thing the other day. I was with my dog Loki. We went to this airstream in the neighborhood that sells coffee, and so I bought myself a coffee. And this very nice woman, I believe she's irish, she came up, and she was talking to me with her friend, but she said, I know from the podcast that you like talking to people. So I thought I should come up and talk to you. I did have a wonderful time talking to her. Yeah, I really did.

Yeah.

So I'm glad she knew that it was okay to come talk to me because I've talked about the fact on the podcast that I enjoy talking to people.

Yeah.

This actually reminds me. Yesterday, I got a second weed delivery guy come to my house.

We covered this on the podcast before you got.

I had a first weed delivery guy that came to my house. He recognized me. And then the second guy came, and this is, you know, weeks later. And then I talked. I was talking to him, and then he also recognized me. And he said that he met you once, and he was so taken aback because you wanted to keep talking to him. He was like, I expected it just to be a quick thing, but he kept talking to me.

Yes, I know. It's a problem. Well, I had this with my butt plug delivery guy.

Oh.

Cause you can have them delivered.

Where's that wrap sign?

Is it white glove service?

It has to be.

Oh, man.

Why do we do it?

We?

We.

I mean, when I say we, it's the royal we.

If you are the royal family and you are into butt plugs, like, how do you get one?

Oh, please. There's a guy that makes it for you in this. You.

They make it for you.

Yeah, but your old emerald butt plug.

Yeah.

Probably.

Probably in the Tower of London. Okay.

Probably Henry VIII on, you know what?

It's passed on from generation to generation.

The scepter and the crown.

Okay, all right, boil it. All right, we have to get going.

You have a kink. How do you get it? How do you do that?

Trust me. Oh, yeah. I'm worried that people in the royal family may have a kink and can't exercise.

That's Prince Andrew.

What are you talking about? It is. That's what royal families are for, is to have kinks and weird, crazy, insane, inbred madness. And you're like, well, I understand. If you're in the british royal family and there's a monarchical dynasty that's been breeding into itself for eleven centuries, what happens if maybe you have an odd fetish?

I know.

And unlimited money. How do you service it? I hope they're okay.

Yeah, they're craziest.

Incest fucking thing I've ever heard. Hey, my guest today, poor guy again. Poor.

He doesn't deserve this.

Such a fine actor doesn't deserve this. Intro. My guest today has starred in such movies as Hotel Rwanda, Crash in the Iron man and Avengers. Films. Now you can see him in the Peacock series fight night, the million dollar heist, and in the upcoming movie unstoppable. Good Lord. He's busy. I'm thrilled he's here today. I really admire this gentleman. Don Cheadle, welcome.

Delighted.

I love that you dropped your voice on delighted and whispered it.

I was trying to do that. What is it? Asmr.

Oh, yeah.

I was delighted.

That's great.

Here, why don't you try that Sona? And I feel delighted.

Oh, yeah, wait, everybody do it. And I'll play with the panning and.

The one at a time or together.

Yeah, or one at a time. And then everyone goes together.

Okay. I feel. My name's Conan O'Brien, and I'm delighted to be me. I'm sorry. Delighted to be me.

Yeah. If you get the little smackies and all that.

No chewing little sesame seeds while I do.

You've already ruined this.

Well, sorry. You went in. You came in with too heavy an idea. That's your problem. I know. We'll cross fade.

I never said Crossfade. I never said Crossfade.

Well, thank you for being here.

Glad to be here.

You're this person who has done so many different types of roles, you've occupied so many different spaces that I don't think of you in one way.

I just.

And I think that would be the ultimate goal of any actor, is that you've had. What do you get when people see you on the street?

Well, it depends. I used to play, like, I used to try to profile them and go like, wait a minute, what's your age? Where are you from? What kind of thing? And I would try to guess the thing they would. And a lot of times I would be right because it is generational. Now, for some, doing this for 40.

Years, you can tell when someone's gonna be a Marvel fan, mostly. And they'll know you from Iron man. So that, I would think would be clearer to know then you've done well.

House of lies. There are a lot of consultant people that come up to me, and if they're coming there in a suit and certain cadence, I'm like, I know which one you love.

You know, you made us look like fools.

They're usually saying, thank you so much.

Yeah.

They're like, ooh. But, you know. And I get mouse a lot from, you know, I know people that have come up and go, devil in a blue dress. I know somebody like, just like mouse. You know what I mean? Yeah, it depends. But I. Yeah, I'm very fortunate in that way that I've gotten to do a lot of different kinds of things. And that's always what I wanted to do as an actor. And that was always what was really exciting to me. Not to just play one thing over and over, but to, you know, I came up doing theater, and we had to do everything. So I just wanted to keep doing that.

I can't settle on one. But the first time you really popped for me was in boogie nights. And when you're at that famous party wearing that insane getup, I don't even know what to call that get up.

It's like earth, wind, and fire meets.

Rick James meets egyptian sun God. But you're sad.

Yeah.

And it's really a beautiful piece of acting because you're sitting there and you're not connecting with anybody. And to be wearing that get up and be sad at a party was to me, like a beautiful thing.

Well, what's so funny about that moment, and we talked about it a little bit, was that what people imprint on that moment? Because really, I was being nothing. Because that was what I was told by Paul to be, which I was trying to figure out what that meant. He was like, in this moment, I just want nothing. And I was like, okay. So I kind of did it. And then he came back. He's like, okay. You were doing. You were doing nothing. I was like, I thought you wanted to know. He's like, no, I want nothing. I don't want you to do nothing. I want nothing.

Right.

So I was sitting there trying to figure out, like, what is I want? What does that mean? And he walked over and went, okay, we got it. So he had been rolling.

He was rolling on you, basically digesting lunch and thinking, yeah, yeah. That's why I think Paul Thomas Anderson is one of the greats. Just probably all the great shots where he didn't tell people. He just let the camera roll. Most of the acting is people digesting. I just. There's.

There's a book that I think that's.

That's. And that's another kind of acting method.

Yeah.

Have a big lunch just before you do your role.

Yeah, yeah.

I was remembering that you were a serious musician growing up, studying jazz. And then there's this fork in the road where it's, is it gonna be jazz or is it gonna be acting? And you had to make the choice. I think you blew it. I do, too.

I do, too, looking back. Except I may have been a horrible, horrible musician.

You never know the money. You'd be raking in with jazz.

Yeah, you're right, you're right.

And different people recognizing you for different kinds of jazz, different licks. I like your.

Man. I really had you pin more as a. Did it.

You just never know.

You never know, man. Takes all kinds.

Do you still play now?

I kind of play the bass more than I came up playing sax and thought I was going to do that for a minute and came up singing, doing vocal jazz. And I thought that one of those two things are what I was going to do. I really was enamored of people who could really, really do it, and I was kind of intimidated by the music. And it's, you know, it's not. It's not easy. And I knew that I was going to be going away, you know, for school, and I wasn't going to be wood shedding. I wasn't going to be spending 12 hours on, you know, scales. And, you know, when I grew up later and talked to a lot of these musicians who are now amazing musicians, I said, did you used to have to beg your parents to practice or did they used to have to beg you to do something else? And he goes, they would, you know, all of the great ones are like, oh, no, they had to pull me away from the piano or they had to pull me away from my trumpet. It's like, that's all they wanted to do.

I was like, yeah, I'm not driven like that, but I want to be that good, so I can't do it. I have to be a recreational musician, because to get there, you have to be. You already have to be kind of wired like that.

I keep coming back to, there's so much that we do in our careers. It's compulsion. I don't know another word to say it. We do the things that we end up that eventually we were compelled to do.

I agree.

And I always come back to, I can't take credit for that. I didn't make a conscious decision. Whatever this thing is I'm doing, I was compelled to do, which is why I think murderers should not be put in jail. They were just compelled.

Hot take?

Yeah. Well, sorry.

Hot take.

Yeah, they were just dead. Left turn.

I'm sorry, but if a murderer is compelled, it's not his fault.

That also sounds like a backdoor confession to me.

We'll get to that later. We'll get to that later.

Okay.

You wanted to be a lawyer when you were growing up, and now you just went into this.

I wanted to be a murderer, but I just knew the hours you have to put in.

Yeah. Yeah.

You can't woodshed murder.

No, no.

I mean, in a way you never.

Would shed your murderer.

Oh, yeah.

You better put it somewhere.

All the supplies you have to buy.

No, it's a lot.

The sauce.

You could be a recreational murderer.

I've tried it. I've tried it.

Then real murderers come along, and I'm like, mandy, that's the real thing.

Yeah, you're no case.

You're really doing it.

Did you. I'm curious because. Wow. I'm sorry, don.

I enjoyed every moment of it. Let me just say that.

Don. Let me say you knew better than to come here.

I did.

We've encountered each other. You did? The late night. So many times you've been here.

You're right.

You knew not to come.

You're right.

But when your publicist said, what about Conan? You were compelled.

I was compelled. Compelled.

Did you? Because you've been able to. I know in your acting career and producing career, you had the opportunity and the desire to do something about Miles Davis. Did that give you sort of an insight into him as a musician by getting to do that?

I mean, you know, researching him and meeting people that, you know, his family that were very instrumental and no pun intended, getting that thing done and being with, you know, people that he played with and knew him and, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. And again, he's like, on the, you know, Mount Rushmore, he's one two on it. So it's seeing all of the people that he influenced and all the careers that he influenced and all the music that he influenced. And the coolest thing about when I would meet people and told them that I was doing this is there are people that. Three different distinct people. Kind of like, when you're saying, how do they recognize you? There are people that don't know anything about miles. Before he was electric, they never started listening to him. Before bitches brew or, you know, any of those electric super rock. Now you listen to it, like, all the heavy metal dudes know all that miles music. But there were other people who had never listened to him. They were just traditionalist jazz. And as soon as he went electric, stop listening to him. Right. And then there was this other whole generation that only knew him when he started doing covers of, like, scripty polity and.

And, you know, time after time and human nature. It's like, that's when they knew who he was. So he generationally affected all these different musicians that did not cross pollinate in their genres. So I was like, that's a testament. How many musicians do that.

I heard a Miles Davis story recently, because we always talk about this in the podcast that we want to start ruling right away, because sometimes people come in before they even sit down. They start saying this amazing stuff, and you're like, God, you know. Were we rolling on that? Well, no, they hadn't sat down yet. And someone, I was relating that to someone, it was Jack Black. And he said that Miles Davis used to say, start rolling. When I'm in the parking lot outside, like, hit play. When I'm still parking my car outside the recording studio, I want you recording on my feet, walking in, opening the door, me biting into the cheese sandwich, everything before the music even starts, because we need to capture it all, because you never know.

He's on his album of just cheese.

Sandwich, which many people think I was.

Going to say, what are you going to say? You're going to try to tear that album up.

It's no ham on Rye sandwich album.

I begged it differ.

You know, all these different roles that you've played. I've always thought, and I could be wrong, that the Oceans franchise seems like it might have been the most fun because it felt like, well, that's a fun group of people to be around. And mostly, let's get into it.

Yeah, let's dig in a little bit.

It's gotta be Carl Reiner.

Yeah. You know what? We won't do it on this. We'll talk afterwards.

Carl Reiner, renowned prick.

No, no, we're not gonna go into anything.

Well, whatever. The important thing. But it does seem like it would mostly be a fun gig.

Oh, it was absolutely a fun gig. And we got to go everywhere and, you know, Jerry Weintraub, who was hell on people in the business, but great for us, you know, just made it, like, perfect. Right? And when we were in Italy, where we shot the second one, we had, like, the one whole floor of a hotel just. Well, we kind of had to because, you know, paparazzi isn't italian. We could not. There was no place where we could really go. So they're like, you guys live right here. That's it. And our families came, and we. It was just. It was great.

Like.

And if we ever did get, the paparazzi would come, you know, I'd be with George or Matt or something, and we'd go, look, there's Brad.

Is that Brad? Oh, that. It's a different Brad.

And it's cool to have seen all of the different levels and. You know what I mean? Because I can still pretty much just go around, you know what I mean? I don't really get bothered that much. Somebody will say something or I'll know somebody recognizes me, but for the most part, and low key, and people just let me live my thing. I don't think Brad can be. You know what I mean? It's like he can't go anywhere. And I don't think I would want that. I would. You know, it's like. It's hard, and people feel like. And I know you've heard it. You've probably heard it before. People are like, well, what did you expect? Like, that's what I. They think it's the contract. Like, I should get to walk up to you and, like, put my hat on your head and go take a picture. Like, what's wrong? I paid for this. It's like, well, no, I did that thing, and you paid for that thing, and then that was. You shook hands. And now I'm just a person out here, too, so it's tricky. And look, these are high class problems, and it's like, don't complain over this stuff.

If nobody came out, nobody would be seeing your things. Nobody would. If you didn't have fans, nobody's coming. But it is an interesting sort of.

I think what you're talking about is this whole other. I get, hey, Conan. Cool. Hi. Or Conan, not a fan. Karate chop. But I get some version of that, and it's very friendly. And they know me as me. It's not that. You know, it's not that level where the street gets blocked. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's the thing that nobody signs up for. Like, you know, when Brad Pitt wanted to be an actor, he. I don't think he thought, they're going to have to close an entire airport if I show up, because that's a whole other thing.

Yeah. And you can't anticipate. You're not. I mean, you've seen it, but you never think, like, it's not gonna be me. I'm not gonna have to do maneuvers to get out of traffic because nobody's trying to chase me. But it's like, yeah, sometimes we had.

I think we were doing a live podcast, and it was after someone sort of charged the stage when Dave Chappelle was performing, and security got to the person. But then it was like, a week later, I was doing something at a Netflix comedy event, and this whole security team came up and said, just so you know, we're gonna be protecting you when you're on stage because of what happened to Chappelle. And I said, gentlemen, stand down. That is not gonna be a problem.

We are good.

I know Dave Chappelle and I don't inspire that kind of fanaticism.

We're fine.

Yeah. Someone might throw, like, a book of poems on stage.

Yeah.

For me to read. But that's about, you know, small paperback that will bounce off my head.

That is hilarious.

What's nice is, I think, especially in your case, is you're, and this is my compliment, is you're such a great shapeshifter as an actor that you're able to inhabit all these different roles. Your career doesn't fit any standard pattern in this fantastic way. You know, you've.

Tell my agent it's fantastic. It's like, why don't you pick something? Maybe I can sell your ass. Now.

Who is he?

He's this.

He's dad. He's dad.

I'm kind of with your agent now. I wouldn't sign you. I think you must be a nightmare.

But I am. I'm a problem.

Does it lead to. Because I've heard you mention this, and I find it fascinating. We all look at different people and make assumptions. And so I would look at you and say, well, Don Cheadle would have no anxieties about his next job because who's worked more steadily, in more different ways, and not just as an actor, but producer and more consistently, and is respected and check all the boxes. But that is not the case. That's not how you feel.

I don't know if any actor. I mean, of course, there's certain people who have piles of scripts that come in and they're always like, which one of these do I want to do? But, you know, it's not. Doesn't mean you're always going to find one that you want to do or one that you think is good. And I don't, by the way, I don't have piles of scripts coming to my house, just to be clear. But I get offers, and there's things that I look at, and there's a lot of stuff that I want to put together as a producer and try to find ways to put people in it, get it over the transom. That's just like, roll up your sleeves. And that's a grind, always. It's more the anxiety of once you've said yes to something and are doing it and the level that you hope you're able to achieve with it. I'm literally right now trying to figure out the proper proportion for that. It's like, it's not your responsibility. Once you've done it, you put it out there, you let it, and it's going to be what it's going to be.

I don't know any actor that doesn't leave and just go, like, I hope they don't use this take and, you know, what's it gonna actually be?

Because you give up a lot of control.

It's gone. As soon as you're done, everybody else gets to play with it, and you don't know what it's gonna be, which is even more of a reason to just be like, okay, it is what it is. It's out of my hands. But it's very, you know, if you're doing it right, I think you're. You're using a lot of you, and you're exposing a lot of stuff, and it's a. It can make you very vulnerable. And then to put that out there and be like, whatever is something I'm trying to learn about more, how to be more, I guess, graceful with that moment with myself, as opposed to being, to use your word, neurotic about it, because I think most actors are pretty neurotic.

Yeah.

If you care, if it matters, you know, you want to. You want to do the best job possible, and you want to, you know, if you love the material, you want to like to do well with the material. You want to be in things that are. That work and that feel good and that you can tell yourself the reason that you spent four or five months out of your life doing it. That's another thing. You can't get that back no matter what they pay you. It's like your time is your time. So you want to make all of the best decisions you can going into the thing, and then you want to show up fully and be there as much as you can be. It's weird to then after it's over, how you dial that down or turn that off, it's just a very interesting process, and it's over. It's a long time. You do the pre production, then you do the production, then you do the post production. You're doing ADR, then you do press. It's like a project lasts years in your life. It's not just when you shoot it.

It's amazing to me. It took me a long time to figure this out, but over the years and years and years of doing the late night show, to realize, because I'm not from the world of acting movies. And so it was very foreign to me. But the idea that when people were coming, by the time they got to my show, or anytime you came on my show, which I think you came on my show nine times, you were promoting something that you had maybe finished making a year or a year and a half earlier, and then you would had to get yourself into the mindset of, you know, yes, I'm here to talk to you about this. And that is so foreign to me because everything, you know, this world particularly, but even late night world, everything was, we think about it at 03:00 in the afternoon, we tape it at 530. The immediate, they hate it. People that night like it or hate it, someone on the street, maybe the next day, but you're already on to the next thing. And so that was news to me, was how the. There's kind of a marathon quality to it, like you said, all these steps, and you've got to be totally invested each time one of them comes up, but then you move on to the next project, and then by the Time the podcast or the talk show rolls around.

That was six months ago. Yeah, far away. I mean, fight night, you know, the one that's coming out in September, that's not that far away. We've wrapped it in. I wrapped in June, but, yeah, very often it's six months, nine months, a year. You're like, set up this clip, and you're like, I don't remember that.

Oh, trust me. I was out there so many times. So many times. The 10,000 late night shows I did, I was out there so many times. Wherever, I'd say, like, so tell me what we're gonna see. And they'd go like, well. And I could see it in their eyes. And then I'd say, you go to a camel store, and they're like, right, right. Yes, yes. Camel store.

Oh, don't tell me, don't tell me.

And then suddenly it became a game show where I'm telling them what their clip was, and ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You get a new car.

A camel store.

Yeah.

You didn't see that movie?

That was a movie. Yeah.

Okay.

That you're very proud of, by the way.

Absolutely. And I came up with the twist.

Camel store.

Camel store. Yeah.

You probably sucked me out as a real camel guy.

I. Look, there was one ticket sold, and it looked like it was.

A geekbox ticket. That's the good news.

No, no, no.

Not that kind of geek. You brought up fight night, so I want to talk about it, which is, this is a true story.

It's based on a true story, right, you guys, we have to be clear with that.

Yeah, based on a true story. It takes place in and around Muhammad Ali's big comeback fight.

That's right.

1970, I think. And one of the things, first of all, Kevin Hart is in this with you, and I think you and I have to agree to grab that man and hold him still because you ankle him.

Many times I try to kick his back foot out from under him, but somehow he rolls up and he's just like, no, you can't do it, man. See, it's a good shot. But let me tell you what I am.

I've never met anybody he doesn't have stop.

It's insane.

He doesn't stop. And I do think he makes so many different projects. He's always good. I adore him. I think he's fantastic. I think he's a huge talent. But then I think there are moments in between projects where there's not something lined up. And so they just put a credit card into his hand and start shooting, and they tell him it's Amex. And he goes, okay, with Amex. It's Citibank. Whatever.

Move him over there.

Okay. Slightly to the right, and we're gonna switch out power. He's like, fine, I can do it.

I know who I am.

Yeah. I have had the experience of. He asked me to do his podcast, and it was on Zoom, and he clearly, I'm waiting around for a little bit, which doesn't usually happen, but I'm like, okay. And then he comes running in, and clearly he's just shot nine other things.

Yeah.

And I think also entertained at a kid's party.

He does a lot.

Yeah, it's fantastic. But anyway, he's great in this. He's really good in it. And you have such an amazing cast.

Yeah, it's really good in this.

And the look of it is so. Such a great homage to. That's, like, one of my favorite periods.

Yeah, it's a great era. 1970s for hair, cars, music, cars, you name it.

Yeah.

And it's. Yeah, it was a lot of fun to work with, and I. Great. You know, it's me, Taraji, Terrence Howard, Sam Jackson, and Kevin. And I've worked with all of them before, so that was the first time that I had been, you know, we all together in one thing, and it was just great to have there on one side of the show, really, and I'm on kind of the other side of the show. So toward the end, our characters kind of collide. And then I'm with them for the.

Rest of the character's based on a real detective.

Yes, Detective JD Hudson, the first, one of the first black officers in Atlanta at that time. And also one of the first black detectives at that time. So, yeah, it's based on this true story about when Ali couldn't get a fight after he didn't agree to go to the draft. The senator in the town in Senator Atlanta at that time, there was a loophole in the laws which would allow him to get a sanctioned fight in Atlanta. So he brought him. There was a lot of controversy. People didn't want him. There was a lot of death threats, you know what I mean? And my character gets asked to. Gets not asked, but gets assigned to his detail to protect him. Alex in Atlanta, it's crazy.

I don't know. I hope young people know this, but how many prime years of his boxing career Ali lost because he refused, because.

He stood up for what he believed in.

Yeah, stood up for what he believed in. He said, you know, I know North Vietnamese has ever done anything to me. I'm not going to go over and fight. And it was a really principled stand, which, you know, there's a lot of people talking in the world today when people will say, oh, this celebrity or that sports, they were really brave for doing x, Y or Z. And I think you don't know what bravery is until you go back and look at some of the stands that some of these athletes took that cost them years of their prime career.

Some of them. All of it. Yeah, some of them everything and never got back from it. And then you go back to your hometown and have to deal with, we're not just talking about getting canceled. We're talking about people like, maybe lynching you, people maybe shooting you. So absolutely. That spirit of who he was and still is for so many people is, you know, it was really cool to have the opportunity to hopefully refresh people about that. People will talk about that as being an aspect of the story, too, entertained by the story. But all these real things that were happening at that time were really important and interesting, too, which is why it's fun to tell a story like this. Because if you get a chance to do edutainment like KRS, one would say it's really cool that you can entertain and people can actually learn something historically, because I guess some people don't want us to know history anymore. That's a problem. So, you know, it's funny to look at movies and look at entertainment and to look at something as being, well, maybe we may be the last bastions of trying to make sure that people remember stories like these if people win who don't want us to.

But it's nothing I ever thought about that would be necessary in our business, do you know what I mean? But it's great that we have an opportunity with a story like this that I still think is even with all that, whatever is heavy about it, which is a lot heavy about it, but it's just, it's a really good story and great cast and really good actors and a time period that was very formative for that state and that city where the city really became a different place. Somebody was telling me that they was in this golf tournament with this guy and he said he took a african american studies course at Columbia or something and he's very young, he was very young, of course 1718 when he went to school and the guy said, what do you think is the black population in the United States? And he's like, oh, I got this. And he raised his hand, he goes, yeah, he's like 33%. And he went, where are you from? He said Atlanta.

We're roughly half.

Yeah, I think it's most. I'm gonna just undershoot it and say half like, yeah, no, but that's when Atlanta like became Atlanta, you know, that's when it became a chocolate city, that's when it became a black mecca. And that's what a lot of this show is about is these people trying to find their places in society and find out where they can be somebody and, you know, how they can show up and how they can like get their piece of the american dream and, you know, what happens around it with them robbing the wrong people is really cool.

It's, there's a great speech too, that Kevin Hart's character gives, which is about how Atlanta is so unique.

Yeah.

And he's like, we've, we are not, you know, we're not New York, we're not LA, we're not Boston. This is a unique place. He sort of talks about the Civil War history and reconstruction and just like this is, this is its own place.

Yeah. And Martin Luther King born there.

Yeah, yeah, it's ours.

It's ours, exactly. Yeah. A real ownership in a real time where that was possible and someone could go into a class and say, yeah, there's 30% black people in the country.

Well, Sona believes that 95% of the country is armenian.

Is armenian, yeah.

When you're in Glendale. Yeah.

95% yeah, 95%. That's the country.

That's the whole country.

Sure.

It's the same everywhere. Yeah, it's the same in North Dakota. There's a lot of Armenians there.

Well, I believe 50% of this room is irish.

Yeah.

Well, yeah. Volume by size, definitely.

I don't even think that's true.

Well, I'm at the table.

The Irish are just. We're like, no, no, we're everywhere. You also have a project I want to make sure that I mention, which is unstoppable. Which is a true story.

Yeah. Also based, I think based on. They make us say based on. Because if they say this and then you say it's true and then this happens, they're going to be. No, but it is.

I'm based on a true story then, too.

Yeah.

Hi, I'm Conan O'Brien, and I'm based on a true story. But, yeah, just my lawyers make me say that.

What is based? The kids say based. What is based? Yeah, what's based?

It's like a good thing. It's like that space that's someone's fate. Or like the music.

Or, like, is it mean, like.

Don't say, like a bass guitar. Don't say that.

No, no.

Like a bass. Were you gonna say that?

No.

Is it like a bass guitar?

It's like the kids like a. Like a good bass guitar. Right. So they're like, hey, that's bass based. Or is it like a cooking sort of a term?

Bast?

Oh, see, I didn't even know.

That's what I thought.

No, it's bas ed.

It is b.

But I don't know what it. Why it.

I was trying to make a funny.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Thanks a lot.

Let's google this.

No, no.

What are you googling where based comes from?

Don't piss off Sona, Don. She's 95% of the country. I think it means, like, being.

She will take you out.

Being genuine. Being yourself is what kind of google says.

Oh, well, based is a slang term that originally meant to be addicted to crack cocaine or acting like you were, but was reclaimed by rapper Lil B for being yourself and not caring what others think of you.

I knew it was Lil. I knew it was Lil B. I.

Did e at first, but it is little b.

No, no.

Little E does case and it's. Yeah, little E is cased.

You know what? This went from one of my favorite episodes.

Oh, no.

To absolutely just nosedived in the last 8 seconds.

Can we go over some of it and get it back. I mean, is this.

I think we can. I think we can pull this out.

Yeah. Okay, let's get rid of this.

But look at this. You've got not one. You've got two projects, because you've got unstoppable as well.

Greedy.

And it's based on a true story.

Yes, it is based on a true story about Anthony Robles, the ASU wrestler who went on to become. Won the whole thing that year in college level. And he has one leg, which was. Oh, poor guy at the beginning until he started beating everybody, and they're like, that's an advantage. That's an unfair advantage. Stop him.

I wish I only had one leg. Some of us get all the luck.

Exactly. He was there when we were shooting the movie. He actually is in some of the movies. Great. But Jerrel, Jerome plays him. Great young actor. And it's a really incredible story based on a true story about this guy's life.

Man, you got lawyered up before you came in here.

Look, man, it's not going to happen to me again. Maybe one of you guys in here fool me four times. Ain't happening again.

What did you say?

He made me say it. We got into a bass thing, and then it went all weird.

All right, I'm gonna go off script here for a second. But I am obsessed.

This was all scripted?

Yeah, all of it. And you did. What do you mean? We're both holding scripts. We've been doing this film.

They're not guys. Are we on camera? Can they see what's happening?

Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about the camera. Just do what I told you to do.

Geez.

This is based on a true story?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm obsessed with Nicolas Cage. I'm just gonna tell you, and I'm going somewhere with this, because I know you've worked with Nic Cage, and I covet any Nic cage story. And if there's anything you can give me, I'll die a happy man.

Oh, man.

And very soon. Yeah.

What can I give you of Nic Cage?

You worked with him in the family, man, which is like, I think it was made in 2000.

Nick always had very serious things. We didn't have a lot of light conversations. You meet Nick, he gets in the car, and he's right in. And we were right into some heavy stuff, like, right away, and I was like, oh, I'll meet you where you live. We'll just live in heavy. So we'll be in heavy stuff. So I can't. I don't have any, like, apocryphal light, delightful stories about Nick that's just making me happy. But let me tell you, I am so glad and so happy to see what he has done.

Yeah.

And how his career, because he is doing what he wants to do, and he has become. I mean, he was already really, really, really good. But I think opening himself up to all these different things and going like, I'll do an insane comedy all the way. I'll do a super dark horror movie. I'll do, you know, he's just my favorite kind of an actor who's like, let's see how many gears I have. Let's open this thing up and just have fun and just play and do a lot of good stuff. And I think he's really proven that he's, like, really real. He's really.

I rewatched face off recently, and it is one of the most bananas insane slash bananas slash delightful films. And it's both of these guys. It's Travolta and Kate just going for.

It, chewing the scenery, chewing it up.

Swallowing it, bombing it back up again, and then, like a dog re eating it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But one of my favorite moments is, you know, we did so many weird, odd bits, but we had one bit that's not even. Wasn't well known or anything, but it was a segment of the show where I'd go visit a horse. It was a horse's head. Like, it was a kid's show. And the horse, it was someone in a horse costume, and his name was Cloppy. And I'd say, now it's time for another visit with Cloppy. And we'd play this goofy kid's music. And I'd go over and I'd talk to this horse, and the horse would say, these be like, oh, Conan. And then he would say these very depressing things. Very depressing things, and then wander off. And you'd always hear a gunshot. And I'd go, oh, my God. Like, Cloppy killed himself. But then Cloppy would come back, explain what the gunshot was and how it had nothing to do with him, and he's okay, but then he'd be very depressed again and then leave. And that was the bit. And then this faux very dark sketch for kids about a horse named Cloppy.

And I had a really fun song that went with it. And one day, we didn't even do it that often, but I think Nick Cage was on our show one time, and he came out and we're talking, and then out of nowhere, he just went, I like cloppy. And I was like, I want to do cloppy. What? And he just, it turns out, had, you know, caught the show once when Cloppy was on, and that had caught his imagination, and out of nowhere, he just went, I like cloppy. So what we did is I insisted. I told my writers, take that, and the next time we do cloppy, and every time we did cloppy after that, we do the whole opening to cloppy. And then a circle wipe would come up, and it would say, endorsed by Nicolas Cage. And he'd go, I like cloppy. Without his permission, of course. But I don't know.

He was probably so flattered. He was probably so flattered.

I liked the whole concept that this sketch has been endorsed by Nicolas Cage. And then just his head comes up out of nowhere from the interview. I like cloppy.

I like cloppy.

Yeah, I bet he loved it. I bet if you guys. If you saw him again, he would maybe do the cloppy movie if you guys figured it out.

I bet I don't even have to figure it out. No, I can just write something quickly on an envelope. I'll do it.

Based on a true story.

Based on a true story pursued by the real cloppy.

Cloppy's heirs come to get you. That's not how.

Dad, wasn't there a story where you were in a car with him shooting a movie and.

Yes.

Own the car or something?

Yes. And he did not wreck. Yes, that was the day one. He's like, hey, it's Nick. Nice to meet you. I'm like, nice to meet you. He's like, yeah, it's a great car. This is the Ferrari today. He told me the exact make and the year, and he's like, I love this car. I had a car like this. I think this is my car.

Wait, this is the car you're shooting in?

Yes. The camera car, the picture car was his car. He had owned it before he had owned it. He had so many cars that he was like, oh, my God. Looks like one of the cars that I owned the seat and finds like, this is my car.

Yeah.

Wait a minute. Turn your head. I have to reach over here. They told me they destroyed this car.

Oh, God.

He's owned that many. That, yeah. The chances that any car he gets in, probably 50 50. He's owned it.

Yeah, he's owned it. He did it. Look, Nic Cage was a movie star back. I mean, he still is, but he was like, sweet spot of movie star was island getting.

I think he's the. I mean, I remember him, I think buying a dinosaur or something. He was one of those guys who was buying.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Just crazy things.

Dinosaur egg and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got. You know, it's. It's funny. I've never come close. Even if I had the money, I'd be like, way too cautious to, like to buy a dinosaur.

What's the smallest dinosaur you guys are?

It's for my wife.

Yeah.

It's a little baby velociraptor. It's two inches high and they're quite plentiful.

I don't want to stand out at parties.

Yeah. $75 for this petrified baby velociraptor.

Do these things appreciate or like a car? As soon as you put it in your pocket, it starts to lose value.

I'm not going to buy one dinosaur for a lot of money. I'm going to buy a lot of small dinosaurs for little money.

You're going to amortize your wrist.

If you want to hang on to them, hang on to them. I'm not stupid. Like people say, Conan went long on dinosaurs.

Did it work out? No, it didn't work out. He's ruined.

He has an ice cream truck now. Here he comes in a shitty dinosaur museum. You can go in the back and look at the.

The Dino museum.

The Dino museum in the back.

Oh, no, that's a character in the cloppy movie, by the way. He's got to be in the back.

Look, the question is, will you do the cloppy movie? If I can get Nick Cage.

I think we've seen that. I'll do anything.

I just love that when it gets out that you've agreed ahead of time to the cloppy music, your agent just.

Screaming at you right now.

They're like, I had you all lined up for Ocean 75.

It's Conan, guys. It's cloppy and Conan. Say no.

Conan's track record in film. I mean, it's unbelievable. What track record? I don't know. I got him confused with someone else.

He's big. He intimidated me. I'm scared.

I have to tell you something. Every time I talk to you, it's an absolute, just delight. Seriously, you are. You're crazy talented and just. I don't know. And, man.

Yeah.

Improv. We need an form, an improv. Let's do it with Don Cheadle. This would be such a good use of your time, all this being in film. I'm thinking a small improv troupe.

Yeah. Run it by your agents.

Yeah, I will, I'm sure. Oh, is that them at the door?

They're unscrewing the hinges. They're breaking it down.

Get out of there.

You are so smart and so funny and also such a nice person. I remember running into you in a restaurant and your wife at a restaurant.

And on the airplane.

That's right. But I remember running into you with my son, who knew you from the. And he never does this, but he was. I just got respect when we got in the car afterwards that I knew you.

Oh, that's hilarious.

And then it ended.

It was short lived. As soon as you handed that ticket to the guy, he was like, I'm.

Not gonna be calling him today. I saw Don Cheadle again. Doesn't quite work.

Dad stopped. You're making it creepy, dad.

It's sad. I know where he lives. Daddy.

Improv team together.

Yeah.

We're gonna see in the valley.

He'll be here soon. Dad, we've been here for 4 hours. I know. He's coming.

Oh, no.

Anyway, Don, congrats on everything. As always. You're the best, and I hope to see you soon.

Appreciate you. Thank you, guys. Lot of fun.

You know, just before we started the podcast today, there were other things I was thinking of talking about, and then I came at the tail end of you describing Matt, a job you used to have. And I immediately thought, I want to hear about that. And I honestly have not heard the whole thing yet. It just sounded quite strange. And I'd like you to tell this tale, if you don't mind.

Yeah, sure. It is very strange. There was a guy who found a corporate loophole with an airline where he figured out if he could pay dumb people like myself to fly legs of a flight, he would accrue more in mileage for his company than it would cost to pay us to do this thing. So who's us? You said me and some friends from our improv group. This was in the nineties.

Okay, hold on. In the 1990s, you were in an improv group?

Yeah.

How did they find. How did he. This person, this.

Oh, God, this gets deeper and weirder.

I know. I'm asking the questions. I'm the lawyer here. I'm asking the questions.

There used to be a show on NBC that was on after Saturday Night Live called Quick Wits, which was an improv comedy type show that we.

I. Sorry, I worked at NBC in the nineties in the comedy division. Never heard of quick wits?

No. Would you? Nor would you, because this thing, I think, was syndicated and we were all on it, and it was, it was, it was what it was. And I don't, maybe Quickwitz wasn't doing well enough that he figured out he had to somehow scam an airline. I don't know. He was a very nice guy. He paid a bunch of us in this group, and I was.

So he was associated with the show?

He was a producer on the show.

Okay.

But he was also running the side hustle where he would pay, essentially, mileage mules like us. And I would do three round trip flights a day.

To where? To where?

To LAX. Well, that was the thing you could choose so you could. A bunch of my smarter friends chose Vegas and Arizona. I chose San Francisco, along with my buddy Jeremy. Just thinking, ah, it's cooler up there, but you get fogged in up there. So we couldn't even complete all of our flights each day.

So you're flying lax to San Francisco?

Yeah.

Three times back and forth, three times in a day.

We get off the plane and get right back on the same plane. And the flight attendants would look at us like we were drug mules or something.

Well, you may have been drug mules.

Well, we were handed these things.

Did he ever put you to sleep and then when you woke up, you felt something in your bottom?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's most nights.

Okay, so quick way, so many questions.

Do you ever w I k?

Of course w I k. You don't have to. You don't have to explain that. Anyone who comes up with the name quick way would have to, of course, spell it that way. So look, I'm not proud, okay? Did you ever suspect. Because I never saw this show and I worked at the fucking network, do you ever suspect that there was no show and this was just a trick to get you to be mileage mules?

I'm suspecting it now.

I don't think, I mean, I think this person literally said, I want to get as many mileage, as much mileage as I can. So I'm going to pretend there's a tv show, hire eight improv people, and then your improv game was fly on an airline three times a day.

Yeah. I don't know what to say other than the airline figured it out and they got into a big argument. And eventually the other thing is you had to pitch a quota amount that you would do. And if you didn't do that amount. You had to pay a penalty.

You had to pay him.

You had to pay him. So if you didn't meet your quota, you had to pay him money as a penalty? Yeah. Okay. Now it's a crucial question. How much money did you get paid to say, wait, go to the airport, wait in line, go through security, get on the plane, fly La to San Francisco, get off the plane, then wait around for the next plane, get on flight back? How'd you get much? Did you get per flight?

We got dollar 50 per flight. Well, this is late nineties.

Pre 911.

I was gonna say pre TSA.

$50.

No, 150 a day. Because we were doing three flights. I know. That was the problem. And I wasn't gonna make my call.

You were always just circling. You probably never landed in San Francisco, by the way.

They were first class.

No one's ever landed in San Francisco. These were first class.

They were.

But it's those little airbuses, so that almost doesn't even matter.

There's no first class on the airbus?

No.

Did you try and eat a lot of free snacks and stuff?

You just get peanuts. That's it. I mean, I had a nice time with my buddy Jeremy. We became best friends because of this. But then they got into an argument. The airline and this guy.

Well, you. How do you know this? He told you.

We found out because most of us were not going to make our quotas by this deadline. And luckily the airline and he settled for some amount and we didn't have to finish our quotas. He then went and wrote a book, I think like a self published book about it. That's maybe on Amazon or something.

Okay. Has this guy continued to flourish in show business?

I don't think so.

With shows called the wacky Wiggles.

Can we watch quick wits?

I don't know how you'd find it.

Is it on YouTube?

I doubt it.

I googled it and it did come.

Up, but there are no quits.

Yeah. Quick wits. It says eight mileage mules circle the San Francisco Bay area.

Wayne Brady was on it a bunch.

Oh, he went on to other things.

Yeah, somehow he escaped it.

Here we go.

What has it become in the hands of Wayne Brady, Brady and Corey Rouse?

Put your hands together for a funny comedian, Emmanuel Lewis.

I like to do my impersonation of Gary Coleman. What you talking about, winners?

Oh, boy.

By the way, none of this was improvised.

Where are you?

I'm not in this episode. It changed every.

You're not even in the. Oh. Cause you're oh, your plane is circling.

I'm 10,000 miles above San Francisco.

Did you recognize someone?

That was. She's a nervous misses Maisel. What was her name? I love her.

Never seen this?

No.

Why would you have? It was on at like two in the morning. And by the way, it's presented as improv. Everything was written.

Alex Borstein.

Okay. Can I ask a question?

Yeah.

You're saying that everyone I'm looking at right now was flying?

Oh, no, no, no. Wayne Brady was not doing this. Alex Borstein to my y'all.

How did they get out of it?

I don't know. He just went. I was part of an improv group that did this and a lot of the people in the improv group were also on quick wits and we knew him because he ran.

But were you ever on quick wits?

Yeah.

You appeared on camera?

Yes.

You were doing this at the same time that you were flying around to Robertson? Roughly.

I don't remember. Yeah.

Somewhere around there it's all a blur.

Yeah.

That's fun.

That's unbelievable. And it's just insane to me, I guess. It's not illegal what this guy was doing.

I don't think so. But it was something shady about it that they settled with him outside.

There's something shady about it? Hey, you kids go jump on an airplane. I'll give you 50 to nowhere. I'll give you $50.

Did I did feel, like, exploited, for sure. You know, but in the most, like, innocent way, you know, it could have gone a lot worse.

We all did things for a buck.

Yeah, I Sona, do you want to go ahead?

No, I'm. You know, we did things.

Yeah.

What did we do?

We did. We flew to San Francisco three times a day.

Oh.

But now what did you do?

Right.

No, you did not know.

I'm. We did it. We're okay.

Okay. You don't want to hear about. We don't hear about it. I did, like, a thing for the National association of Music Vendors and is.

This like pre, any kind of pre exposure and.

Yeah, I'm just getting started in the business. I'm just, I'm writing for. Not necessarily the news. And someone saw me at an improv show and said, you're fun money. We'll pay you some money if you can get yourself. It was like an hour and 40 minutes drive out of LA to this weird structure where they shot videos of how to sell. They wanted to teach you how to sell musical instruments and how not to sell musical instruments. And what I realized later on is they wanted to hire an improviser because they didn't want to hire a writer. And so they would just say, say be, you know, a real handsome guy would come out and say, the one thing you don't want to be is the know it all salesman, like this guy. And then I would just be behind a counter and say, well, if you're going to get a synthesizer, you don't want the Moog R 23. Let me tell you why. And I would just make up all this stuff, and the customer would go, yeesh, too much information. And the handsome guy would gay. Now, let's try that again, and let's have this guy, you know, listen more than he talked to.

So I did that, and I have it somewhere. It's in my parents house, up in the attic on three quarter inch tape. Do you remember what three quarter inch tape was? Like? A giant brick.

We should bring these in, because I think I have a dvd copy of quick wits.

We would have to build that machine that could play. We could get a stupid tape mod.

We should have a segment where all three of us bring in our most embarrassing thing. Do you have anything embarrassed captured on tape?

I have 28 years, five nights a week.

I think I do. I haven't. I've only been on tv with. With Conan, but when I was in second grade, I was in the opening credits for a show. It was a legal drama, and there's a quick shot of me saying the pledge of allegiance.

I love this.

That's great. I would love to see that. I don't even remember the show, but you know what? I want to see that. I want to see you and a quick wits. And what I really remember fondly, more than anything I did, was the opening of the video has that kind of late eighties. It's space and cubes spinning that have an image on each side of the cube showing different parts of what you're gonna see in the video. And, like, welcome to the. And I. And, you know, like.

And I just thought, we gotta find this.

I gotta find it.

I've been on a million game shows, and then I also won a toilet flushing, national toilet flushing sound effect contest once and was all over.

Like, national people from all over the country did this.

This is just so. Is this a noise you could make with your mouth?

It's a noise I did make with my mouth, and I'm not going to do again, because that's not what won me the competition.

What won the competition?

Just the way I said it up.

I slept with everybody. I sucked my way to the top at the toilet flushing competition. I just love you in bed, and you're smoking a cigarette, and you're like, what'd you think? Pretty good. Good enough to say that I'm King Flusher tomorrow.

I finally found what I want to give it away for.

You're always right. You're taking a cab home, you're crying, and your mascara's running the next day. And the winner is. Matt Gorley.

I love the one who actually deserves it. Just being really upset about it.

The artist. Well, we learned a lot about each other.

Yeah.

Let's never talk again.

Okay. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, sonam of session and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Liao. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on apple podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up@siriusxm.com. conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.