Konan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Konan? Visit teamcoco. Com/callkonan. Okay, let's get started.

Hi, Michael Jay. Welcome to Konan O'Brien Needs a Fan.

Hey, Michael Jay. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing terrific. Where are you in the world right now, Michael Jay?

I am in Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.

Famous spot where the Wright brothers first plane took flight, right? Kitty Hawk?

Well, I hate to start our interview off with a correction, Konan, but the history books tell us that the Wright brothers flew in Kitty Hawk. They actually flew in Kill Devil Hills, which is just south of Kitty Hawk. The reason that Kitty Hawk gets the notoriety is that there's no telegraph office in Kill Devil Hills. So after they flew, they had to go up to Kitty Hawk, send the telegram, and then I think it's a PR thing because Kitty Hawk It sounds much more aeronautical than Kill Devil Hills.

Okay, let me tell you something, Michael Jay, you are dead to me now. I like this guy. You corrected me on American history. I'm humiliated. Look, if I have to flame out that way, I'm okay with it. That's fair. You seem to really know your stuff. Now I know something, and you're right. I do know that the captions of the plane, of the photograph of the plane flying, say Kill Devil Hill. Oh, did he? Yes, you are correct.

You just upped me on that. I didn't know that. That's fantastic.

Well, I panicked, and I just tried to make... I don't think I've ever seen a photo that said that. He made it up. I made it up. You know what?

I think after you said it, it's written in, and it's now... I mean, that's gospel.

You know what, Michael Jay, you went in 30 seconds from being dead to me to being my best friend ever. Because you paid me that compliment of saying that anything I say is gospel. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Michael Jay. I like you. You got great energy. I'm clicking with you right away. What do you do? What's your profession?

Well, I'm a retired clown, circus clown. I am currently...

Me too. I'm no wonder. Although I'm having trouble retiring. But no, I very much... I'm with you, man. I feel the same. I feel your pain. So you've been a circus clown for how long?

For 20 years now. So started in 2004. Yeah.

That's amazing. And were you trained? Did you go to Clown College? What was your background? How did you get into clowning?

I didn't. And I'm going to correct you again, Konan. There's no such thing as Clown College, like a academic institution. Clown College that most people know of is really the Wringling Brothers training camp.

Wasn't it called... Now, I'm going to correct you.

No, you're correct. It's called the Clown College. But people- Who just mentioned it?

Wait a minute. I'm totally fine with him correcting you.

Michael Jay, that's fine to correct me, but it turns out I was... You just said I was correct. I was dating a girl once in another lifetime, long time ago. This is weeks ago. No, I'm kidding. Many, many years ago, I was dating this woman, and After we dated, she was working at the time in a sports bar, and she was waiting tables, and we dated a little bit in Chicago. Then afterwards, she said, I'm off. I said, Where are you going? She said, I'm off to Clown College. She had never mentioned anything about that. Then I told some of the other writers at SNL, and they started making lots of jokes about before you went to bed with her, would you take off your really long shoes? Did she sometimes have to sweep up the spotlight around the apartment? It was a mistake to mention that to a bunch of SNL writers.

Anyway-the best thing to imagine the noises that might come out of a room are the…

When you're doing- Highly erratic. Guess what? You just aroused me. I'm going to say, Hey, come on.

Come on?

Yeah. What? I'm sorry. The idea of a clown doing it and making that noise, I think is one of my kinks. I want to tell you something, Michael Jay. You seem like you have a great sense of humor. You'd be good at clowning. What clown were you? What was your persona?

I like to practice something I call benevolent clowning. A lot of clowns are real mischivists and are going to stick it to you. Pennywise.

Well, yeah. It's going to stick it to you.

Pennywise, not a nice clown.

Malicious clown.

I tend to be a clown from the heart. I like to find the idiocy, the idiocy in a moment and live in that. We sit in the muck is a thing the clowns say a lot.

I ascribe to that philosophy, which is there are different comedic schools. Some comedians like to, I'm the teller of truth. I'm above you telling you about the world. I like to be in the mud or the muck, as you guys call it. I like mostly the joke to be on me, but also sometimes I like it to be about Matt Gourley and Sonoma Session. I feel like I'm pulling them down into the mud with me and rubbing muck all over them. That's my philosophy. I remember who said it.

I think it might have been Buster Keaton who said, The audience loves a slow thinker. I like to be a slow thinker that has just a big heart. Because I look like, and for people listening, they won't be able to see me, but I look like if a panda bear and a human being merged into one. We got in a fly, teleportation pot accident. So that's the clowning that I lead with that.

I like your philosophy. I think it's very sweet. And so you've been a clown for a long time, and it sounds like you've been successful entertaining people. Is that pretty much the plan going forward, or is there something else you're working on?

That's interesting. A lot of beautiful boxes have been checked in my life, and I feel extraordinarily lucky to have led the path that I have. I'm not sure. I'm really on the lookout for something, whatever is next. And so recently, I became a certified death doula. A death doula? Yeah. Are you familiar with that?

Well, I'm conjuring what I think it might be, and I may have been around it. These are people that when someone's passing, when they're... Is a death doula there for the person who's dying or for the people who are grieving?

Both. The easiest way to describe it is where's a birth doula? So midwives and birth doulas. Where's a birth doula? It helps in the labor of birth. A death doula helps in the labor of death because there is a sequence of events that happens for a person who's in the process of death and dying. It's something where you can help them in their journey. You can help the families in their journey. You're there to help educate, you're there to help- I I have no idea how somebody prepares for that or how you can learn about that.

I was around someone, and it's not a tragic story, it was someone who was very, very old who was passing on. I think close to 100, if not 100, and they were passing on. It was the first time I had been around a death doula, and I was really impressed with the explanations they were giving about what's happening and that this is a very natural process. Obviously, sometimes it's not a natural If someone's bank safe falls on them, that's not a natural process. But it's funny. Yeah, it's funny when it happens.

The safe is made of natural materials.

Exactly, yeah. But in this scenario, it, I don't know, it blew my mind that this person was so helpful and just understood that this is what's happening. As you know, we have a culture that isolates us from death. We scrub it clean. People They used to die all the time, and they would have the person in the casket in the house for three days before they buried them. You were present. Now it's all been taken care of and sanitized.

You're correct again, Konan, right on the spot, because it's something that we've gotten as a society. We've been very separated from funeral rights. We don't prepare the body anymore. We don't put them in a casket. We're not close to them. Basically, once our loved one dies, They get handed off, and then they come back to us either in an urn or in a casket, and then we put them in the ground. I think one of the biggest jobs of a death doula is just to get death back in the conversation. I think as a society, we tend to keep it at arm's length. We don't even want to say the word death. In fact, that's a debate among death doulas is, should we be called death doulas or end-of-life doulas? And I think that's exactly the point, is that we need to take the power away from or the stigma attached to the word death.

It's like they're contorting the words to say, I'm a life not anymore doula. Wait, you're what? I'm a good 8 times life over now counselor. Which is just so strange.

Life the endy guy.

That's too harsh.

I like it. You're hired. I've got some bad news.

Oh, no. My running out person helper. Yes. Heart ending. I very much am concerned. I want to do whatever's best for the people around me when my time comes.

What about before your time comes.

No, fuck that. Screw all of you. What I want, Michael Jay, is I want some in a weekend at Bernie's way. I want my body to be around for a couple of weeks. I want to be brought to parties and stuff so that people really get the idea that he's gone and it eases the transition for everyone else. I get to party.

You're dead.

Well, still, I get to Yeah.

Put the sunglasses on.

What is it? I have to take you to bars around Larchmont.

I'm cool with that. I did forget, Weekend at Bernie's was his glasses on sideways? Yes. Then the thing about that, and I know that we were talking about a very serious topic, Michael Jay, but I've taken us to Weekend at Bernie's, and you're a death expert, and I think I want to get your opinion. The mistake they made in that movie is that when people die, they don't become floppy dummies. This guy's dead for days, and he's just this floppy dummy so that the comedy works when in reality, they should do a remake of Weekend at Bernies, where the body decomposes in the natural way, but they try the same gags.

Rigor mortis and everything?

Yes. When does it get stinky? Well, let's not get into that. Okay. I don't depress Michael J. My body will become very odorous very quickly. Come on. Because I plan to die eating a massive amount of onions and chili.

Now I'm thinking about after you die, how I would want you to just still be here so we could still get paid for doing this podcast.

But that's the weekend at Bernie's Plot, which is Then you keep doing a Konan voice and jostling me.

Well, no, I'll take all the past footage and just start playing it.

Hey, Konan, how was your weekend?

Oh, gosh. Nevertheless, I'm Konan O'Brien.

Nevertheless, I'm Conan O'Brien. Nevertheless, I'm Conan O'Brien. That's part of the comedy is it can't be perfect. Well, bingo. Nevertheless.

See, there's another one. Bingo, I'm Conan O'Brien. Hello, I'm Conan O'Brien. I keep giving and everyone's taken.

I do all the work around. Here's my chill chums.

You guys work. I'm the son. I lost it.

Look, he's dead. He's dead. What happened to him?

There we go. This is embarrassing, but my headset cord got tangled around my chair with little wheels. As I was talking to you, it was pulling my headset off and I was getting pulled lower and lower, and I didn't know it was wrong. This is how you die. I was a near-death experience. How about a near-death doula? Someone who can talk with you the stages of near-death because I think I almost bought it right there. Michael Jay.

Well, it could be someone who comes and scares you almost to death and gives you different scenarios where you could almost die. I think that's the only market.

Now, Michael Jay, do you ever find, and maybe you haven't done it for that long, I know this is a very serious topic, but will you ever use your clowning skills as a death doula? Would they ever come out where maybe people are really sad and you're like, Oh, come on, everybody, don't be too sad. Well, maybe if it's a family of clowns. Yeah, that's right. Seventy-five of them step out of one hearse.

I mean, look, that's going to be... When that happens, I'll have one. I'm a big believer that humor.

Humor. We need humor constantly. That's my reaction to death a lot is just go with jokes right away to the grieving family members, often at the accident scene, just to try and ease the pain. Okay.

You're the first responder sometimes even before the ambulance.

Yeah. They'll say this guy could easily be saved if you just do some simple CPR. I'm like, CPR, what does that stand for anyway? Cookies, pralines, and rutabekas. Is that what it stands What's going on here?

It's Weekend at Konan's.

He is dead. Are you dead now? I am dead. What happened? I don't know what's wrong, Michael Jay.

You've taken us through- To go down the Weekend at Konan's Street one time, Two things. One is I feel like modern technology has to be able to give us a way to keep the bodies loose for at least a few months after death.

It has to be able to wear a Caribbean shirt. Yeah. Right. And have a group of Munraku, Puppeteers, three or four come in, operate you.

Yes. Second thing is, my hope is that somehow modern technology and science gives us the ability to do what they did in Weekend of Bernie's Two, which is there was the voodoo That's right. Do you remember this?

Well, I never watched it. The minute I heard there was a weekend at Bernie's Two, I tried to shoot myself. To make part three. Someone wrestled the gun away from me and I was saved. But no, you stood in line, you You stood in line for a ticket and to see Weekend at Bernie's, too. Is that true, Michael Jay? You did.

Absolutely.

Did you see Mannequin 2 on the move?

No, I did not know there was a Mannequin.

Why are you bringing Mannequin into it?

It just seems like a similar idea.

Was there a Mannequin 2?

Yeah. Same people in it?

I think it's just... No, not the main guy. I think it was just the guy who's the...

How's it? Well, you're all over this one.

Well, I didn't expect to be I'm thrilled, Senator.

Oh, excuse me. Then why did you introduce mannequin 2 if you did not have the facts at your fingertips? This committee finds you guilty. I accept.

I just can't believe the first weekend at Bernie's is still something... He had sex with a woman.

Wait, the dead guy?

Do you guys remember? No. No, we didn't. The mob boss's wife or girlfriend, you remember this, Eduardo, goes upstairs, and then they just hear like, squiling, and they're looking at each other like, Is she going to realize he's dead?

He's dead. She had sex with him. So necrophilia is a plot point. I want to listen. Can the listeners please tell me if this is true? Does a woman have sex with a dead body in Weekend at Bernies, which is a comedy.

How about we consult Google?

I can confirm that.

It does. She does. If you were there for number two, then- No, that was in one.

I think that was in one. The sex happened in one. The sex happened in the first one.

I love that we got you off of your noble death doula profession into the muck. Talk about the muck. We are in the swamp of idiocy right now. All right, Eduardo, what do you got to say?

You told me ahead of time.

Yeah, there's a parents' guide. There's a sex and nudity parents' guide for Weekend at Bernies because of the sex scene with his corpse.

Yes. Wow.

So it's necrophilia for her, but not for him.

Well, he's dead. I know. It's nothing for him.

Well, it's like Vita philia. It's sex with a live person. Yeah.

Right. But he is senseless in sensate. He has moved on. Senator, you're out of order. Okay. I don't know what happened here, but boy, did they used to make... What happened to the good old movies? I know. Back in the '80s, they knew how to make them.

Remember the water skis, too? And he keeps hitting the buies on the head, remember?

Classic movie. At no point does his corpse start to swell or burble. At no point are there various emanations. Oh, I think there are.

Even in water skiing, and he got water logged. He never swell.

Okay. I don't understand. Michael Jay.

I'm so sorry, Michael J.

Can I just say- What have we done?

I'm not sure if you know how much I love this movie. What happens in the second one?

No, I think we do. I think we do. We're going to In the second one, and we'll get back to how you- No, we won't. No, how you comfort the dead and dying. We'll get back to that. We're out of time. But we can hit Bernie's... No, we're making time for this. Weekend at Bernie's 2. Does it take place It's like a day later?

I think it happens over the course of about a week.

Then Voodoo allows him, the corpse, to be reanimated. No, that happens much later, I think.

I'm not sure what the time frame between Weekend at Bernie's One and 2 is.

Why did you call in to this show if you don't have the correct information on Weekend at Bernies 1 versus Weekend at Bernies 2?

Can you give us the plot synopsis of Weekend at Bernies 2?

Yeah, plot synopsis. It's a long plot. That's okay. We've got time. I hope no one's dying in the next room, Michael Jay. Help me. I'm scared. Shut up. I'm on with Cohn, and we're talking about Weekend at Bernie's Two. Please help me. It's a terrible movie. A good movie. I didn't see it.

I'll give you the short one. After witnessing the murder of their corrupt boss, Bernie Lomax, Larry Wilson, and Richard Parker are blamed for Bernie's embezelment and fired. Desperate to find the stolen $2 million and clear their names, the pair learns the fortune was hidden in the Virgin Islands and travels there in pursuit. Meanwhile, Bernie's corpse is partially revived in a voodoo ceremony by gangsters also looking for the money.

Well, it's good we know that.

The walk that Bernie does when he's revived is hilarious. I remember that. He comes up and then he just squats and does this half... It's hard to describe, but you just got to watch it and the smirk on his face is still there. And he just walks and he's animated. So He doesn't have to have operators operating in this time like in one.

Yeah. He walks around. Okay. Well, Michael Jay, you have completely disqualified yourself.

I don't know. You're hired. I mean, if I'm on my deathbed and Michael Jay is distracting me with Weekend at Bernie's 2, that's mission accomplished, I think.

I do think you should talk about this with the next person who's moving on to the next plane. Absolutely. Maybe this would be a great topic, or maybe Screen it. Screen it for them, one and two.

You don't realize this is not a podcast episode. He's on as your death doula right now.

Oh, right. Good at time as any is right now. All I want is a bottle of good Pinot Noir and a good pizza margarita, which is right down the street. Then I want to watch The Godfather, one and two. Then I want to watch Weekend at Bernie's, one and two. There it is. Then I want someone to find a cure for whatever I have, but still drink all the wine and eat the pizza.

Then we're going to Weekend at Bernie's, you.

No, I'm curing because of the cure they found. Oh, now you're dead. You died. You're dead. Yeah. No, never. It can't happen. Never? Too big a star. Too big a star. America won't stand for it. They'll revive me using voodoo. Michael Jay. Do you have a question for me before I go?

Yeah. A lot of my professional career has been as a clown. I feel like you are, if not, clown, then certainly clown-adjacent. But have you ever for a feet first all the way in to clowning. If you have or if you are interested in doing that, what would your clown name be and what clown? Are you Clown Curious?

I am Clown Curious. I am not only Clown Adjacent, I'm Clown Curious. I've often thought that I am a clown, that that is my natural state. My favorite audience is kids. I love to make kids laugh. To me, that's the true test, if you're a clown or not, is can you make kids laugh? I work real. I mean, if I I had trouble with Sona's twins because they are tough kids who come from a tough, broken home. They laugh at everything else. But anyway, I got them eventually.

All they do is laugh.

I think I would not overdo it on the makeup. I don't think I need to. I think I'm clownish already. I think I would slightly exaggerate what I have. I think I'd be more of the Chaplin Keaton School of Clown. I think I would wear and I think I would do a lot of physical comedy, which at my age is very dangerous and would quickly lead to my death. I think my name would just be Konan because that's the best. That is my clown name, when you think about it.

A great clown name. I was thinking about this, and I was trying to think of something that is long and skinny and red.Oh, Jesus.Cind.

Of like you.Okay.And.

I thought of Twizzlers.

Twizzlers? Oh, Twizzler.

Twizzles, the Clown.

Twizzles is not bad. Twizzles, the Clown. Or also-Because I feel like Moco would be like, that's a pitch down the middle of the plate, right? Yeah, it's all fucked up.

Go get your shine box, you mutt. Go get your sign box.

Are these the kids? No, I'm the clown. You're the clown talking.

I thought you were the clown talking.

You thought the kids were saying, get your shine box.

No, I'm- You mutt prick. That's me as- Go, screw. That's me as the clown. Fuck you, jerk.

Hey, kids. What a shitty party. Enjoy the cake. No one lives long. Your parents don't love each other.

Can you do anything, clown? Balloon animals?

No, screw I love you. No, it's not going to happen. I'm forming a union. I want a union. I'm a shop steward. I'm not leaving until I get $800 in cash. Hey, your mother's pretty easy on the eyes.

No. All right, Michael Jay, I'm a terrible person.

Your instincts are straight on, man. Again, you are correct again.

Michael Jay, it was nice talking to you and continue doing your good work.

Thanks. And you, too.

I love you and I bow to you. Hey.

Take care. Take care.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ofsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Your Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineer Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kohn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. Has been a Team Coco production in Association with EarWolf.