Hi, everybody. It's Josh Mankowitz, and this is a bonus episode of Talking Dateland. We're going to do something a little bit different this time. What we're going to be talking about today is not a Dateland episode, and it's not a murder investigation, and it's also not going behind the scenes of a Dateland story. It's about bringing attention to people that we hope do not ever turn into a Dateland story. We're talking about the missing. Now, my two guests today are not the usual Dateland interviewees because they're not detectives or family members or lawyers, and they aren't guilty of anything except making great television. They are the creative team behind a hit ABC drama called Found. Here's what we have in common. We all hope our work can help shed light on the missing. Dateland has been covering these stories for about 10 years in our Missing in America online series, and I just finished doing season three of the Missing in America podcast. Now, Found is an NBC drama, and it tells the story of Gabby Moseley, a public relations expert who is also a former kidnapping victim. And she's got a big secret. She's keeping her captor, her former captor, in her basement.

I am done with your lies. I am done with your manipulations. You have cost me everything.

I should have buried you the day I found you.

Now, according to the Department of Justice, about 600,000 people are reported missing every year in the United States to law enforcement every And the vast majority of those people are not found. This is something I feel personally invested in, because back in 2005, nearly 20 years ago, I did a story about how if you were watching television in the United States, you would get the impression that everybody who was missing was white, attractive, blonde, and female. I did not expect that discussion to last another 20 years. Maybe I was naive. I think things did change. They are a little bit better, but they're certainly not where they should be because there's a lot of missing cases in which the attention that could be paid, should be paid, and might change things if it were paid, isn't happening. So I think my guests today feel pretty much the same way about this. I'm delighted to welcome Showrunner Inkechi Okoro. Carol, I'm going to call you NK, if that's okay.

Of course.

And the lead actor and also producer, Chinola Hampton. Now, for the very few people out there who've made the colossal error of not watching Found yet. Tell us a little bit about what it is and what you want people to think about when they're watching.

Well, Found is a missing person show that focuses on what we call the forgotten ones, which is the percentage of the population that it feels like not just America, but the world has deemed disposable. So to your point earlier about the news coverage and we would think that every person missing was a attractive white female, while things have improved still disproportionately.

Hugely.

We are not reporting on a significant portion of the population.

I mean, not only are we not reporting on it, it's not as if everything is equal, but we're not reporting on it. I mean, Black women are about six and a half % of the United States, but they're like, what, 29 % of them missing or something like it. It's just some giant number.

And part of it is a chicken and an egg thing, right? Because part of it is like, okay, well, are Is the police not looking as much, and therefore there's not as much attention being paid in the media? Is the media not paying enough attention, and therefore for the police, they're not the high-priority cases? There's no one bad guy in this. All of us play a role in how this has become commonplace in this country. And so with a show like Found, what we were hoping we would do was entertain the public, of course. We're in the business of entertainment.

Which I think you're doing.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah, it's great. But while we're doing that, if we can challenge our audience to just pay a little bit more attention, if we could challenge our audience when they hear about a missing person and it's someone that maybe isn't getting mainstream attention, that they pay closer attention, that they become part of the solution. And that is our hope that through osmosis and watching the show and how dedicated Gabby Moseley, which is the character that Shannola Hampton plays, how dedicated she is to finding those that just aren't the priorities to others, that that will inspire something in our country as well. Because quite frankly, if even one person looks twice when they see something happening in the street or when they see a poster or they see a mom, a sister, an aunt, a grandmother crying on the news if one more person plays closer attention, that's one more person that's focused on bringing this person home. And so that is our hope with the show.

And you were, to some extent, inspired by a cluster of missing women back in DC?

Yeah. So it was around 2014. It was something that went viral online that a lot of people started talking about, which was there were 13 to 14 missing Black and Brown women in the DC area. And a lot of people were talking about it online, especially within the Black and Latino communities that I was so rattled by the fact that I was seeing something online within my community that was being discussed on such a magnitude, and it was nowhere in mainstream media. I got so frustrated as as a mother, as a woman, that this was happening on this level. I wish I was a rocket scientist. I wish I had all those skills. I don't. My skill is the keyboard. I was like, Okay, well, how do I use the skill I have to help? How can I play a role in drawing attention to this and bringing people home? I started to think about what could make an interesting TV show that would shed light on this. Out of that, the character of Gabby Moseley was born. Then I just built out the show from there.

So, I mean, Shana, you're playing somebody who's both a kidnapping victim and a kidnapper.

Kidnapper, yeah.

There's not a lot you can draw on from that. I don't think that... There's not a lot of that out there.

No, I wasn't able to research and speak to someone who has done that. No.

I mean, that comes from you, right? Yeah.

Well, it comes from the wonderful writing, but yes. And then you just have to feel what it would be like to be in that space. I think what really helps with something like that is you imagine all those times where if somebody does something to your kid, you imagine all the things you would want to do to them that you can't really do. So it's really taking that imagination and sometimes the worst of yourself and the worst mistake you can make. And that's how I was able to make it truthful, because you want to pay people back. Everybody wants to pay people back. You want to sound like you're good and enlightened and, oh, I forgive, but everybody wants a little revenge. And so to be able to have the writing to execute what that inner demon wants is really lovely.

Are people walking up to you on the street or in airports and saying you're Gabby Moseley?

Yes. And it's interesting for me because I was so known for another character for so long, but now they're definitely saying Gabby Moseley. And quite honestly, I get a lot of, which is another reason why I wanted to play the character is because she's so beautifully really flawed. I get a lot of, You lock the man in the basement. You're just as bad as him or worse in some ways that they will say because I'm out here, supposedly the hero for other people. And so that's been a interesting reaction to get to, which I was expecting.

It's how heroes are interesting. I think so.

I think we are finding the balance. I do. I really think we are finding that balance.

Oh, yeah, I think you are. I remember when Law and Order, the original Law and Order was really in its heyday, some story would break in the news. And then a couple of months later, something very much like that would appear on Law and Order. They're reading the paper just like I am.

Ripped from the headlines.

Are you guys doing that also?

No, we don't rip directly from the headlines, but by nature, I love procedures. I love Dateline. My husband and I always joke that we have six seconds to change the channel or we're stuck. The minute they're like, Why did Bob show up at the house? I'm like, I'm in. I want to know why Bob showed up at the house. And they got me for the next hour. Just by nature, I always keep up to date on these cases in real life. And the worst thing we could possibly imagine, there's always someone who's taken it a degree further in real life. And so in the writers room, every single person who works on this show in some way, shape, or form is doing it from a place of passion, being passionate about finding missing people. And so by nature, they have absorbed a lot of cases, a lot of information. And so we call it the jambalaya. It's a mix between things that have happened in real life, things that have happened to us. Our writers, our actors, our crew have been very generous with their stories, their stories of healing, their journeys. That also gets put into the John Belia pot, and then our creative imagination, and as long as it's grounded in reality and authenticity, we mix all of that up, and out of that come our episodes.

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You ready for what's coming? In your show, Gabby Moseley is in public relations. And I know that one of the things that was part of the creative process was the Black and Missing Foundation. Now, the Black and Missing Foundation, which I only found out recently, came about because they saw our story back in 2005, was founded by a law enforcement professional, Derica, and a public relations professional, Natalie. Now, far as I know, Natalie does not have anybody chained up in her basement.

Natalie and I have talked about that. We I've never seen her basement.

When you take that away, I do feel a little bit like, I know Gabby because I know Natalie.

Well, the surprise was I actually didn't know about the Black and Missing Foundation when I started creating the show. I'd read an article, I think it was in time or something that just talked about the role public relations plays in finding missing people and keeping it at the forefront of the media's attention, which puts pressure on law enforcement. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent human being, and it really shocked me. So that was what made me think, Oh, of course, that's what Gabby should have her background in, because after what happens to her, she's like, This should never happen again. So we create the show, and as I'm doing research after I've sold the script, I stumble on the Black and Missing Foundation. I'm reading Natalie's bio, and I literally reached out to her because I was like, I feel like I just created you in my head not knowing you existed. They're now very dear friends. We are such huge champions of their work. They're the real heroes. I agree. Yes. Natalie and Dharika. I agree. They're great. They're doing God's work. Our hope is that anything we do unfound makes their lives easier in terms of what they're trying to do in real life, on the ground, saving family, families in a very active way.

They're phenomenal women.

They are the greatest. And you're right, they've made a huge difference. And part of the rope trick of this is that you have to strike the right balance between engaging with law enforcement and the news media and then criticizing them or yelling at them. Nobody basically likes being told that they're not doing their job. So there's a middle ground there, which I think Black and Missing has actually done a very good job of. And that's partly because Derica is part of law enforcement and will not allow people to trash talk law enforcement agencies, particularly when what they do is so important vis-a-vis missing people. So it's all about spurring them on and recognizing, which is exactly what you said, that there's this dance between stories. If we know the police department is putting everybody on something, we're going to do a story about it if I'm in a local newsroom. And also if the police department says, This is very important, we'll cover it. And if we're covering something, they don't want to look like they're not paying attention, so they'll put more people on. Exactly. So that definitely happens. And the families that I cover, both missing families and also people whose loved ones have been victims of violent crime.

I always say to them, you've got to engage with law enforcement. You've got to bang on their door, but you don't want to burst in while they're having dinner either. You've got find some middle ground, which is what all this is about. Sadly, I get the feeling that you're not going to run out of missing cases.

Unfortunately, it's one of those things that we talk about where we're like, oh, the engine of the show is something that allows it to have a long life. But then the sad part of it having a long life is because people are always getting creative about how they take our kids. I mean, trafficking is still such a huge issue you across the board, not just in Black communities, but across the board.

And hugely uncovered.

Hugely uncovered. I will never forget, we were doing a storyline around a trafficking ring, and the head of the trafficking ring was based out of a high school. I remember as we were going through the process and there were a few people who'd challenged us on the believability of the principle and everything. Three months after that episode airs, in Ohio, there's a huge takedown of a trafficking ring. Who was behind it? Educators. There were a couple of military people. And that was the point we were trying to make is you cannot judge a book by its cover. You have to just follow the evidence. Anyone is capable of it, unfortunately. And that's what Chinola and the rest of our cast so beautifully take the words and elevate it to really drive home that point. It is not about passing judgment. It is about finding the missing people and reuniting them with their families.

So Chinola, tell me how you, as a performer, and also a producer. You have to find that middle ground in which people are engaged but not repelled, because that's hard to do.

Well, really, I can't even take any credit for that. That is really all NK and Sone and everyone in the writers room. I think that they also add little tidbits of lines in there where Gabby Moseley says one time, she's like, I'm not anti-cop, I'm anti-bad cop, and making sure that we're very specific in our language and also recognizing that our law enforcement gets so many cases, and we're not trying to bash them on our show. I think we show the heart of law enforcement with the Trent character and how passionate he is. Really playing the dance, Gabby Moseley says one time to the team who was really affected by a case, One day I hope I no longer have to do this job. One day, I hope there is no need for us to be here. But right now that need exists. And while it exists, we're going to do it. So really finding the balance has come from the heart of the writers room. And I get to just say the words. I get to just say the words beautifully and never even have to give a note.

What's ahead for this season?

It's so good. So here's the thing. I have to just take this because I have to just tell every everyone, you talk about your shows that you do and you have an obligation to go and talk about it. But this show, when I say we come out of the gate swinging, it is so good. Edge of the seat from the first minute to the last. And in the middle of all the crazy, what our show does well is we also have the characters, the core group of people who have gone through their own struggles, and we get to tell their stories throughout finding the missing people. So having both things happen at the same time, it's insane. You won't be able to keep up. It's so good. Our writers have done such an amazing job telling stories that Keep you on the edge of your seat. It's so exciting, and everybody is going to be satisfied.

I mean, what else do you guys say?

How do you top that?

I don't know. Thank you very much for that, Shetel. I mean, listen, when When you're working with this talent, writing for them is a gift, right? Because they just take it and they run with it. I think the only other thing I'll add is how proud we are of the types of cases we're going into this season as well. We're really expanding that definition of the forgotten ones because it's not just about finding missing Black people or missing Indigenous people or missing people from the Latinx community. It is all walks of life. It's addicts that people have decided they don't deserve a second chance at life because they did this to themselves. It's sex workers. There's always judgment around, well, what did they do to get themselves taken? We're really digging deep in terms of our non-binary characters of what's happening in the queer community and really making sure that we're shedding a light on that as Well. So I personally have just been so overwhelmingly proud of our writers in terms of really pushing us on the cases we're doing this season. And then, quite frankly, a shout out to our casting Department because they then have to go cast roles authentically.

And we push people out. If we're doing a non-abled person story, we're not just going to put an actor in a wheelchair. Go find me that actor who has that disability that we're referencing. And so I just want to take a moment to shout out our casting Department in Los Angeles and in Atlanta, because they've been killing it, really killing it.

You just touched on something that I see all the time, which is that people who are marginalized in the good times get more marginalized in the bad times. Like Monday through Friday, you're just homeless. But then Saturday, something terrible happens to you and you're the victim of a crime. You're starting out behind any of the three of us. And that's an interesting thing to deal with on your show. So thank you, guys. Found, which comes out of the gate, swinging, I am told, is coming back Thursdays at 10:00 starting on October third. That's on your local NBC station. Friday on an all new Dateland, I'm going to have the story story of Akeia Eggleston, a pregnant Baltimore woman who was featured in our Missing in America series after she disappeared in 2017. In fact, in that episode, you're going to hear from Natalie and Derricka Wilson, the founders of the Black and Missing Foundation, whom we spoke about earlier. That's Friday at 10:00 PM Eastern, 9:00 Central. I hope you'll join us. And the official Dateland season premiere is September 27th at 9:00 Eastern, 8:00 Central. Thank you guys both for doing this. Thank you very much.

Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure.

We so appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you for your passion to tell the stories, to real-life stories. Truly, truly, truly. You can see it on your face, your body, how much it means, and it just resonates. It's really lovely to see. Thank you.

Very grateful.

Quality human being. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. Thank you both.