What you're about to hear is true. It's part of an active and ongoing federal investigation. If you have tips or information, reach out to your local FBI field office or go to tips. Fbi. Gov. The following episode contains material that isn't suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

You said that you were following the story while you were in New Orleans. What did you think of it? You asked about the money. That's why I mentioned that I was following the story. That's how the $30,000 idea came up. I always knew that I was going to put something about money in your ransom note, partly because I was curious to see what would happen. Wasn't that risky to ask for money on a debit card? I didn't think so. You didn't think you would get traced from your ATM transactions? No.

Think about those moments in your life that in retrospect, were a fork in the road. What if you did this instead of that? How would your life have turned out? Israel Keyes' decision to chase a ransom is one of those big moments in this story.

What if he didn't get inspired to do that?

What if he didn't chase that extra hit of adrenaline?

What if he stuck to his well-established way of operating and just lay low? If he did, it's tough to see how police would have ever found him or Samantha Konig.

But Israel chose a different path, one that leads him directly into handcuffs.

He's now unmasked. You got your monster. And he's ready to talk. For a price.

We're all wired differently. Some of us are wired for good, some of us are wired for bad. But a select few step outside all of society's boundaries. From cold open media, this is Devient. Part 4. Welcome back. We're chasing the truth into the dark corners of what humans are capable of. I'm Andrew Iden.

And I'm Dan Sematowitch. Thank you for joining us again. We appreciate your support and we appreciate you listening. If you haven't already, please hit the follow button so you'll never miss an episode. And if you're in the follow mood, also follow us on social. You can find us on TikTok and Instagram at deviant. Podcast. And also, check out our Patreon. It costs nothing to join, and you'll immediately get access to bonus material and an invite to our Discord where you could chat with me and Andrew. We're also posting all sorts of things related to the stories we're telling, and we're updating them all the time. For example, if you go there now and sign up, you can watch some of the police cam video that we talked about in the last episode of Israel Keyes being pulled over and eventually arrested. Go to patreon. Com/deviantpodcast and see what's there for you.

This is episode 4 of Deviant. In this series, we're exploring the life and crimes of serial killer Israel keys. We want to find some answer to the question, just how far did he actually go? To do that, we need to understand how far we know he actually went. In our last episode, we, at least in part, heard what happened to Samantha Konyk, the 18-year-old animal lover who was abducted by Israel keys from the Common Ground coffee kiosk in Anchorage, Alaska. A multi-agency manhunt finally catches up with him after tracking his use of Samantha's ATM card. This is the end of Samantha's story, and for authorities, the beginning of Israel's.

It's March of 2012, and Israel Keyes is now in custody in Texas. Police back in Alaska are still searching for Samantha Konyk, and while she's still missing, investigators, they have their suspect. In Alaska, Anchorage police Detective Jeff Bell is watching all this unfold. There's a brand new name glowing brightly on their radar, and there's work to be done.

I was assigned still with the Task Force and the APD SWAT team. And so what my role at that point became going to Israel Keyes' house. That's the first time we had heard his name in the investigation. So myself and other members of our SWAT team put a team together to go make contact at that house. We knew that there was a white truck involved. When we got to his house, I walked actually down his driveway up towards the front door and obviously saw the white truck. Ultimately, our detectives served a search warrant at the house in looking for evidence and/or Samantha.

What was the optimism at this point that Samantha was still alive?

I think it had diminished considerably. That evening, I was told probably about eight o'clock, at seven or eight o'clock at night, that I was going to be flying out at 10:00 to Texas with Detective Monique Dahl to attempt to do an interview with Israel down in Texas. We flew out that night, got to Texas the next morning, then had to drive to the location where Israel was at.

You walk into the room and what's your first impression?

I got a vibe from him that was very, very powerful and scary and that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck. Eyes just go right through you. He seemed like a big man. He wasn't really that big, but he seemed like a powerful person. We sat down and told him who we were, tried to have just a normal conversation with him. He was open about a few things. Obviously, he didn't deny having the debit card or anything like that. He had just a crazy, stupid story how the debit card came in his hands. He told us that he parked his truck at a grocery store in Alaska and left the window down an inch or so. When he came back out from the grocery store, it was sitting on the seat. So somebody must have slid it through the opening on the door with a pin number scratched in it. He figured that might have been a previous client of his that owed him money and was giving him access to that to pay the debt.

So your bullshit meter is going off immediately?

Yeah, absolutely. That's just a crazy story.

Do you think he was panicking?

I don't think so. I think that he knew he was busted for the ATM card and the federal charges for transporting it across state lines and using it out of the state. But I don't think at that point he was too worried about the Samantha Koenig.

Keyes is brought back to Anchorage, where he finally meets the team of investigators and attorneys tasked with untangling all of this.

One of them is FBI Special Agent Jolene Godin. We met her back in the first episode. When we got that initial call from the Texas Rangers, it was certainly a huge sigh of relief that we probably have the person that was responsible for taking Samantha. But that's really when the work starts, because now it's like, who the heck is this guy? He was an unknown to everyone. That's when things really started ramping up in terms of diving into his life and everything about him.

We're going to go ahead and dial up a few other people who are working with us.

Over the course of two days, on March 30th and April first, Israel Keyes sits and tells the FBI, the Anchorage Police Department, and the US attorneys that he's been operating as two different people for 14 years. Hello.

Okay. Can you put that on mute? Done. Thanks.

He said he has more stories to tell, and he's ready to make a confession.

You told us that you killed Samantha Cohen, did you get that right? Yes. Then you told us if there were some other things that you'd like to tell us about that. You're going to get the abridged version. I'm going to leave out some stuff. There's too many people in here. Some of the stuff is very personal. I don't feel comfortable with telling it to a lot of people. What I was thinking or what was said between her and I, that stuff stays with me unless there's fewer people in this room.

Authorities don't seem to be buying it at this point. And as far as we can tell, nobody leaves the room. Detective Jeff Bell is there, too.

Now, keep in mind, he's a detective. He's got years experience dealing with some of society's worst. But even for him, Keyes is different.

That was there for the Samantha Cohnen confession. I can tell you that it's probably, not probably, it's the most detailed confession to any crime, complete details. We were essentially asking, did you kill Samantha? Where's she at? But we got much more than that. I mean, we got every single detail, the blow by blow, so to speak, of him taking her and what he did to her and where she was. And not only that, the physical reaction that he was having in telling us those details was visible. We could see juice bumps, and he kept rubbing his arms and the hair standing up on his arms. He was maybe reliving it. I don't know what was happening to him, but it was very disturbing, actually, to watch.

A little bit of transparency here. The sound you're about to hear is from those first two major interrogations. Again, they happened on March 30th and April first, 2012. We originally asked authorities for all the interviews available, and they gave us some, but not all. But recently, some of those recordings they didn't release made their way onto the internet like most things do. We cross-referenced those with FBI documents and pieces of audio that we heard before that were in those tapes. So yeah, we're very confident they're the real deal.

Israel's This confession of Samantha's abduction and murder happens here, and these recordings are important. For the first time, someone beyond Israel and his victims will know what he's done. For clarity's sake, we're combining these two recorded sessions across three days to find out what Israel actually did to Samantha. In addition to keys, you'll hear another room full of agencies, Detective Bell and Detective Monique Dahl from the Anchorage Police Department, FBI agent Steve Payne, and federal prosecutors Frank Ruso and Kevin Feldas.

When did you first meet Samantha Coney? Never met her. Never really seen her before. Why did you go to the Common Ground coffee shop on that night at that time? Because they were open late. What was your plan when you went there on February first? My plan was exactly what I did. But I was planned by ear, but lost self-control. Honestly, it was like a spur the moment thing, the way it happened. When I robbed her, she was very cooperative. I don't know, I guess you could say against my judgment, I just kept going with it, even though I had already told myself that if whoever was there didn't have a car, then I wasn't going to do anything more than rob them and tie them up. But there was something about her, the way she reacted that made me want to just keep going with it. Like I said, I had my police scan in my ear, and it It was like there was something going on on the East Side, so I knew most of the police would be over there. I was just on a real adrenaline rush. I thought I could just walk her right down the street.

I had never done anything that brazen before, and I thought, yeah, it was just no real adrenaline rush. I was determined at that point that it was going to happen regardless of what I had to do. Just decided to take her with me. What were you thinking at that time? What? About taking her with me? Yeah. I like to schedule to go on a cruise the next day. In a few hours, yeah. That was part of the idea. I knew that there were cameras everywhere. Like I said, If I hadn't been picked up in Texas with all that stuff on me, I'm pretty sure that we wouldn't be talking ever about this. I saw in the video before you got in your truck over there in the parking lot, you were both standing on one side of car for quite some time. What was that? Oh, you have that on video? Yeah. There are people standing right in front of my truck, standing right there. I had her pinned against the door. Like I said, there were people. I had the 22. I think she knew right then that I was serious because I told her, I said, I don't want to hurt you, but this 22 is loaded, so don't make me do it.

After that, she She didn't try anything else, really. I helped her into the truck and I put the seatbelt around her. I told her we were going to drive somewhere and talk about what was going to happen. Still had my scanner on, so I knew everything was going on.

As Israel mentions, he has an earpiece tuned into a police scanner. There's something going on across town, so he thinks that the likelihood of running into cops is pretty low. Then he stops at a red light.

Pulled up to the light at Denali and Northern Life's. There were two cop cars that pulled up right alongside of us. I know she saw him, but I had the gun the whole time. And she had been doing something.

The light turns green. Keyes and the Anchorage police cars go their separate ways. Look, Dan, You and I disagree on a lot of things. We do.

But we also agree on a lot of things. You're like, baseball.

We're like a good whiskey. Yeah. Is that it?

Oh, God, I hope not.

But also, I think one of the things we both can agree on is that we love Quince. Look, there's a million places where you can get things on the internet. I mean, it's an endless black hole. But if you go to Quince, that endless black hole may stop. Because when I started shopping at Quince, I found some things. I was like, this is exactly what I need. For instance, I just told my wife the other day, I said, we need a new chef's knife. I'm sifting through Quince, and I'm going through the clothes and the luggage, and I was like, Wait, there's a great 8-inch chef's knife. Sure enough, I bought one, and it's fantastic.

I was thinking that I need a new bag for taking Gnocchi on walks. Gnocchi is our great Dane. He's 150 pounds of pure sweetness. He's a little bit of a neighborhood celebrity. Anyway, when you walk a Great Dane, you need a lot of supplies. Sort of sling bag that I was using for him, a little chintzy. I prefer something higher quality, higher fashion. And I was like, maybe Quince has that. And that's when I ended up picking up the Revive Nylon Foldover crossbody bag. And now I have all the space I need, and it looks great. And the best part about it is that it didn't cost me a lot. I was willing to pay more, but all Quince items are really priced 50 to 80 % less than what you'd expect to pay for a similar brand.

Go to Quince, you're going to find something that you want or something you need like I did. You can go to quince. Com/deviant for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's W-U-I-N-C-E. Com/devient to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince. Com/devient. After stopping at a park to smoke, Israel learns that Samantha his personal items, including her keys and phone, are still at the coffee kiosk.

With Samantha still in the truck, he goes back to Common Ground, breaks in again, and gets the rest of her stuff. Now, he has her phone.

Yeah, so as soon as I got a phone, I started sending text messages. That was another question I had. Why did you respond to the text messages, one from her boss and one from her boyfriend? To make it seem more believable. Like she was okay and she was mad at him. Yeah. Had a bad day and was pissed off at everybody. Plus, I figured from her age, that wouldn't be that unusual or certainly wouldn't be something the police would be interested in hearing about. I figured even if they were upset about it or out of character, there wasn't anything that was going to be done by much of anybody, at least not for a couple of days. After that, where did you take Samantha? I think that was the last thing I did before I went to my house. Parked in the driveway, same place I always do. I just told her to chill out in the truck. I have some stuff to do. You say chill out in the truck. I mean, she was tied down in the truck. Yeah. But I mean, we were in the driveway and there were still people around.

I told her, don't try and sit up. Don't try and set up. He didn't say anything. Just chill out back here, be quiet, and I'll talk to you in a minute. There's some stuff I got to do.

Keyes goes inside his house to see if his girlfriend is still awake. She is, but she's getting ready for bed. He then walks to the shed in his backyard and completes the preparations for what he has in his mind.

I already had an extension cord running out to the shed. The shed was already set up. I had two heaters going in there, and I had a big tarp, a 9 by 12 tarp. Laid out on the floor. I guess it was probably the time of on and two that I finally got the nerve to get her out of the truck and walk her over into the lighter blindfold with them because I was telling her, I'm like, Don't try anything. I'm going to put you out here and make you comfortable. You just sit here and chill out. I've got some stuff to do. I've got some running around town to do to get all this stuff put together and worked out. I thought I'm going to have my police scanner on me. So if I hear reports of screaming from this neighborhood or anything, any disturbance from over here, I'm going to be back here before the cops get here. And I had a piece of rope. It was around her neck, and I had it screwed to the wall. And that's how I held her there so she couldn't move. Was she cooperative with you throughout this while you were doing this?

Yeah. The whole time I told her that I made it sound like it was going to be a quick exchange as far as a ransom of some kind, and that was the impression she was under. So if she did what you told her to, it was her impression that you would eventually let her go. That's what she was saying. I never actually told her that.

Israel has one more thing to do before he focuses on his true purpose here. He wants her ATM card.

She gave me her all the I went down and I pulled it up on that quest and printed out a map of the street. She said she went down and took it out there and had her show me exactly where her truck was parked.

This is when he drives to Samantha's house and starts digging through her truck. This is also when Samantha's boyfriend walks out and catches Israel in the act. You heard her boyfriend's side of it in the last episode.

I was just standing there waiting to see what he would do, but I had a knife. He just turned around and ran back in the house. I just ran down the street.

He drives back to his house and checks to see if his girlfriend is now asleep. She is. Keyes returns to the shed where Samantha is being held.

I got a glass of wine, got her some water, and she was asking me if everything was working out okay, and if I had got a hold of her dad, if I had the ATM card, if... She was asking if all this stuff was doing as planned, and I said, Yeah, it's fine. Then I unscrewed her up from the wall and cut the ties off of her hands, not the cable ties on her wrist, but the tie between And had her laid down on the floor on the mat and took two more pieces of rope and put them through the cable ties. On her hands, so her Yeah, two separate pieces of rope on her hands. Did she ever struggle for any of this? Or did she just let you do that? She knew. She knew at that point.

Oftentimes in the process of telling this story and making this show, we've referred to the Israel Keyes case as a horror film. But honestly, that comparison minimizes the reality. What he did is very real. It happened to very real people. And this is now happening to Samantha Konyk. Inside that shed, with his girlfriend and his child sleeping in the house nearby, Keyes is a very real, living, breathing monster.

In very, very graphic detail, he describes how he sexually assaults Samantha before choking her to death. He wraps her body in that tarp, turns off the heaters, and leaves her there to freeze in the Alaska winter. He gets in a cab with his girlfriend and daughter, heads to the airport, and boards the flight that will bring him to that cruise ship leaving out of New Orleans.

When he comes back a couple of weeks later, he moves into the next stage of his plan, the Ransom Gambit. He goes dumpster diving to find a newspaper from a week or so back that's dated February 13th, a date on which he wasn't in Alaska.

Then he goes back to his shed and thaws out Samantha's remains so he can take the picture of her with the newspaper that he includes with that ransom note, his proof of life.

Remember in the last episode when Detective Bell said that there was some debate about whether or not she was alive in that photo? We know now that Bell was right. She wasn't.

It takes keys, some doing to make her look believably alive.

But I know it took me all night to do it. To do what? To get the makeup done. Yeah, a lot of work to do. Every part you see in that picture has a foundation on two or three different things. I mean, she was still in good shape, but she definitely didn't look alive. So, yeah, it took me a long time. I think I used two or three tubes of foundation, and then after that, I had to go over it with a couple of other colors in different areas. Because at first it just looked like she was painted. I had to add in some red and, I don't know, different stuff, different places. It was hard to take the picture because the Polaroid I had only gives printout of about two by two and a half inches or something. I think I took about five or six pictures before I finally had one that only showed what I wanted.

You know most of the rest of this story already. Keyes posts the ransom note. Samantha's father deposits the money. Police track the ATM card's use from Alaska to Arizona to Mexico to Texas. They capture Israel Keyes.

Police now know Samantha's Samantha is gone. The only thing left is to find her. Israel gives that up, too. He talks about how after he took the ransom photos, he cuts up her remains and disposes of her over several days in a hole he creates in a frozen lake.

I had my sled chainsaw with me at about 80, yeah, probably about 80 pounds of lead weights, cleared off the area in my eyes, probably about 8 by 8, 8 by 8 feet. Cut a hole. So that was the first day. You came back, you think once or twice more? Twice more. Twice more? First day was head, legs, and arms. Of Samantha Coney? Yes.

Keyes tells investigators where to find Samantha. Detective Jeff Bell is ready.

He asked us for a laptop computer, and we pulled up Google Maps of the Matsu Valley, which is north of Anchorage, and he put a cursor on the lake, the Matsu Lake, and said...

That's it right there. That's it. Right where the hand is, right there where that hand is. If you right-click on that, if it gives you latitude, you'll see. You go out there, you'll see.

And so I took the latitude and longitude coordinates of that cursor and wrote them down. And then after that interview, I drove out to that location, took my cell phone, walked to those coordinates, got down on my knees to see what I could see because there was a couple of feet of snow on the ground. I was able to see one bump in the snow that looked odd 20, 30 feet from where I was at. I went over there and brushed the snow away, and it was a perfectly cut cube of ice. I cleared some more snow around that, and I could see then about a 13 or 14-inch by 20-inch rectangle that had been cut out of the ice. Our SWAT guys, again, our same team, our chief had a fishing hut, and they got some fishing poles, drilled a hole in the ice somewhere nearby, and they pretended like they were ice fishers 24 hours a day for three days until the dive team got up there.

The FBI's Elite Underwater Search and Evidence Response Team is called in from the Lower 48. They reopened the hole that Israel had made, widen it, and go into the water.

Were you there on the scene when she was recovered?

I was part of pulling her up out of the water, yes.

In whatever detail you're comfortable with, can you tell us about that experience?

I think mainly I was up there because I was one of the co-investigators. The US attorneys wanted confirmation, visual confirmation, that it was actually her before we did a press release that it was her. I was there to visually inspect the remains to see if I could identify them as Samantha's.

Were you able to?

Yes. I related back to the US attorney that it was Samantha. That was probably one of the most... Actually, the drive from the lake back home was probably the most emotional time I've had during the investigation because I actually had called my wife at the time, and I was relaying to her, and my son was on the phone, too, that we found her. She wasn't alive, but we found her. There was some satisfaction in at least finding her remains, but at the same time, she was deceased. That was a hard conversation, and I know that that was a tough moment for me.

Now that Samantha has been recovered and everything appears to have happened exactly as Israel said it did, this part of the mystery is over. It's time for a new phase of Israel's story to begin. This phase is full of wild and compounding mysteries that unfold over many years and thousands of miles. At this point, all police have to go on are some initial hints from Israel and a computer. It was seized from his house, and it contains a history of interesting searches, searches for stories about missing people, lots of them, and they're all over the map.

I think we got the vibe pretty early on with the detail in which he was able to take Samantha and get away with it. Frankly, had he not had the scheme of using the debit card, I'm confident we would not have found Samantha, and we would not have solved that crime. I don't think we would have found her in that lake under any circumstances. I think that we all felt like she wasn't the only victim and that there were more.

Fbi Special Agent Jolene Godin. It was pretty apparent at that point, pretty quickly into that interview, that we were not dealing with somebody that had just committed one homicide. We were pretty confident at that point that there was more to it.

From that early interrogation on March 30th, 2012, Keyes makes it clear that Samantha's murder is only the beginning of his story.

I have lots more stories to tell. I don't know if I want to tell any more stories today, but we're going to have a lot more stories to tell.

Israel is quickly coming to terms with how things are now. He knows that as long as he has information about other crimes, he has leverage. Almost immediately, he begins setting the rules of the game and trying to seize control of his narrative. Pay close attention here. What you're going to hear right now will become a familiar tactic of his.

My concern right now is for what we talked about before I started saying anything. I I would rather not see my name attached to dismembered body you found in a way, is real keys, believed to be responsible. I don't want to see that yet. I don't know. Call me crazy. I got to get used to the idea that everybody's going to know that I'm not who they thought I was. I got to get used to that.

This is also when the people on the other side of the table begin to diverge on how to handle all of this. Fractures form between law enforcement officials and federal prosecutors led by US attorney Kevin Feldas. Over the next several months, they'll all take their turns in the room with keys. In many ways, this is an unusual way to handle an interrogation, and over time, this causes a lot of friction, and in some cases, bad blood. We'll hear more about that down the road.

But as we know by now, there wasn't much that was typical about Israel keys. The important thing to know is that at this point, everyone is still trying to wrap their brains around this guy. In Israel, he knows that he has information that investigators need, and he's not talking for free.

What's your goal here? To keep stuff from us or to help us move forward? I want to help you, but only if there's something in it for me. I don't feel any moral sense of obligation to tell you anything.

He makes his goals known early. He wants to be put to death by the federal government, and he wants to control the media narrative in order to protect his daughter. Us attorney Kevin Feldas is leading the legal efforts here. He strikes a deal with Israel and his lawyers that sets the table for everything to come. As far as the Justice Department is concerned, this is how things need to work.

That's what the order here says. I want you to see that the chief judge has signed it. So today, the ground rules are we won't talk about Samantha Coney or anything related to her, okay? You can talk to us about other crimes, and we can negotiate with you right here and now about other crimes. But you can only negotiate independent from that case. Independent from that case. If there's another case out there, we can talk to you about it before you're charged. We can negotiate what you're charged. We can negotiate everything from sentencing. These are things we may be able to help you with now. I can't tell you what that negotiation could look like until I know what we're talking about. But I have an idea, of course, that there are other crimes out there. Here's the thing, Israel, you can control those things now.

Controlling things is exactly what Israel wants. His game is beginning now, and he's adapting as he learns.

And there's other things I can give you. But again, that's going to be part of the negotiation, if you will.

Here's Jolene Godin, FBI. The first few interviews, this was obviously all new to him interacting with law enforcement. And I think law enforcement had the upper hand initially with him. And then as time went on, he really had the upper hand. He had all the cards, and he knew that. And I think early on, his goal was to get the death penalty and get it as quickly as could get it. That's what he wanted. And so he was trying to give us everything to make that happen. When he realized that that was not how the system works, I think that's when we saw a shift with him where he tried to definitely take more control of the interviews. I say that we certainly controlled the interviews, but he had all the cards, and he knew that. And so it really became a chess match at that point. Back in the room with Keyes and Feldas, the contours of that chess match take shape.

And I'm telling as the prosecutor, we can negotiate about other things. It's not something that we can control forever. I think we both know what's going to happen is that as investigators throughout the country start to look into things, if they find things, they find a body, they've got to do what they've got to do, and we lose control. They won't find enough. I don't know. I don't know that. I'm not bluffing you. I'm telling you, they're going to find things, but they're not going to find enough. That's why I said a few words out of my mouth can save them hundreds, if not thousands of hours investigating. I want to allow you to control that. The reason I'm doing this is because I always knew that I was playing for keeps, and I knew this was inevitable. I mean, what's going to happen is going to happen. I accept that, and I'm ready for it. I'm more than ready for it. My issue is how long it's taking and how long it could take if we don't figure out a way to expedite things.

The computer that investigators recovered from his house continues to be a source of possibility in uncovering new crimes.

Here's the deal. I know what you have because I know you have the computer. Right. I've got maps. I'm never going to bluff you, Israel. I've got maps that I know come up with a bunch of other states. I've got Washington, Texas, Utah, Montana. I could list them out for you. I didn't bring them all here today. Like I said, I know what's on that computer. I know what you have. I know As time goes by, the longer I'm in the system, the longer the investigation goes on, you're going to keep finding things. You're going to start to connect dots. I'm only going to give you the dots that I know you're going to eventually connect. Basically, what's on that computer. Frankly, if I hadn't been picked up in Texas, that computer would be in the landfill right now. I get it. But I'm not going to talk about those things that I know you're eventually going to connect me to unless I know that I'm going to get what I want. And I don't know if that's It's not possible. Tell me what you want. I want an execution date.

Israel knows that he needs to give investigators something to move the ball forward.

Hypothetically, I give you a body or two bodies. You are saying you can move forward, you can give me things. But how can you possibly move forward unless I'm indicted on those charges?

As you may have guessed, he's preparing here to give up the murders of Bill and Lorraine Currier, the story you heard back in our first episode. You how that goes. He confesses to those crimes while dangling new and undiscovered murders.

And in the next episode of Deviant, we explore Israel's life before he murdered Samantha Koenig. Those years of drifting, traveling, living, and killing.

And in that interrogation room, investigators begin exploring all of that, too.

Getting a grasp on how far and deep these crimes may go and how many more victims may still be out there.

It's There's only two federal districts there, Eastern and Western. Eastern is more like Tacoma, Yacra, Western is Seattle. So you're saying there's two districts? I'm sorry. There's two districts in Washington. Federal districts? Yeah. You're going to need both districts.

Until next time, thanks for listening. And if you're not already, make sure to follow Deviant wherever you get your podcasts. That way, you'll never miss an episode. Deviant is written, produced, and executive-produced by Clark Goldband, Andrew Iden, and me, Dan Simatovich. Original scoring comes from our friend, Shuvosur, an editorial and production consultation from Jenny Ahmet. Sales, marketing, and distribution comes from our friends at Gemini 13. Deviant is a production of coldopen media.