Transcribe your podcast
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This podcast is intended for mature audiences.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Dustin Dillon Glass. He is the name we've heard the most regarding Justin's disappearance. If it's been Dylan and so and so or Dylan and New York, it's always with Dylan.

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Dylan Glass, that dreadful name that Erica has heard for so many years, the name that belongs to the man that might have taken her son's life, is now speaking publicly for the first time about Justin Gaines and what he says happened.

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You want the truth about that? With you, I'm gonna give you all the way the truth. I'm gonna give you 100% the truth.

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Mandy from wave land. I'm Shawn Cuyp, and this is drowning Creek.

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So listen. So I got your letter, right? Man, for a long time, I've sat here and watched the world talk bad about me, man. I've never really been just a good guy, you know? I accept that. But listen, enough is enough sometimes, man, like, I'm paying my dues. I deserve to be in prison for what I did do. I shot a house up, and I got arrested, and I. And I'm guilty of that. Cool. I accept it. I've changed my life. I'm not on drugs. I'm no longer a gang member. I've been going ten years, and I ain't hurt nobody in this place. These hillbillies, man, they. They would rather believe a lie than the truth. With me, the things that I'm gonna give you and show you, I'm gonna have proof to. There's a lot of things that people don't know. There's a lot of things that people ain't heard. I need you to be open minded.

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When I sent Dylan glass a letter last June asking him to speak with me on the record, I'd really just begun investigating justin's case. He's incarcerated at coastal state prison in Savannah, Georgia, for charges unrelated to this case. I wanted to know who this guy really is and hear directly from him. Was he involved in Justin's disappearance and even his death? I figured it'll take a while to hear back from this guy, if he does even respond at all. Two weeks later, I was on the phone with him, and he was more than willing to talk to me for the first time. Glass told me he was finally going to lay the whole truth out for the world to hear. But truth, as I would learn, can be quite subjective.

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Could you imagine sitting in a level five prison, man, facing a life sentence for somebody you never really met, man? And listening to the whole world talk bad about you and want you dead. That shit hurts. That shit hurts, Mandy. I told them people that I never knew that boy. I never met that boy. I never seen that boy. We ain't even the same kind of people, do you know that? They never believed that.

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I had absolutely no idea what to expect from speaking with Dylan Glass, this guy who even early on in my investigation and research, I had seen and heard a lot about, and none of it was good. Drug dealer, gangbanger, thief, and thug. The first thing I notice when speaking to Dylan is that he seems really worked up. He talks quickly, and you can almost hear his heart racing. He immediately begins overloading me with information, telling me his version of events. So I just let him talk. He came straight out of the gate with telling me that he knows he deserves to be in prison for the crimes he has committed. But that's not why I want to talk to him. I want to know about his involvement in this case.

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That's another lie they told. So guess what, mister kill. It gets deeper than that. Mister kill.

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Yeah, he calls me Mister Kip for a while.

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When you hear everything that really happens, like it's gonna blow your mind, then people are so corrupt, they don't care about the truth because it's too simple. They didn't want justice. They want a conviction. You know, truthfully, sir, I don't care what people say about me. I want to know what happened just as bad as you do. Because I want an apology from the world. Now, am I wrong for playing with them people after all the years? I told them the truth. I told them I didn't know. I ain't have nothing to do with it. They don't want to believe that. And they kept coming. They kept coming. I tell them, I don't know this man with tears. I don't know this man. They don't want to hear that. They threaten me with death penalties. They threaten me with life sentences. They lock me up on charges. Guess what? Then when I lie to him and play with him because I'm facing a million fucking years, oh, then everybody's mad at me. But they will believe a fucking lie before they will believe the truth.

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That lie that Dylan is referring to is him sending police on a wild goose chase with his made up story. Or so he says.

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Yes, I did that. And I. I'm sorry, man. I was dead ass wrong. I'm sorry. And I know that's horrible, and I accept any consequence for that. I was wrong for that man.

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So you heard that, right? Dylan Glass is actually walking back on the confession he made in 2015. The same confession in which he described in detail what happened to Justin. That he was fighting with Martin Wilkie and choked out by Leon. That they robbed him afterwards. That he was taken to Andy Pickens houseboat on Lake Lanier, where. Where he was placed in a metal box and placed in the water, later to be moved to a well. This is the same confession that several others, including his own mother, corroborated much of. So how the hell does he explain that his name was ever mentioned in connection with Justin Gaines in the first place?

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Do you know how all this shit started with me, man? A fucking trashy ass Trello park junkie. Seen the shit on news. He called Crime Stoppers thinking she was gonna get a fucking reward, but she didn't pay attention to where it said for a conviction. So when you take and you put a reward on tv, you gonna have a million fucking dope heads. Every time they get in trouble, they gonna holler my name.

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He's right in feeling that every dope head in the area that gets in trouble says they have information on his role in Justin's murder or where Justin's body was left. I heard that much from Mike Rising and sheriff Chapman. They said people have always tried to cut a deal to get time off their sentences, but the information they would provide was something they heard on the news, a well known rumor, or it was just not credible at all. For example, two teenagers actually confessed to murdering Justin at one point. But when police investigated, they found the two boys were locked up in a juvenile detention center at the time of his disappearance. It was impossible. Things like that went on for years. But the woman Dylan accuses of looking for reward money, well, I'm not sure how true that is, but I know who he's talking about. Her name's Bridget?

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Yes, her name's Bridget.

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Bridget first sent a MySpace message to her brother Josh on January 11, 2008, telling him that Dylan had killed Justin. In the message, she stated, josh, if I tell you something, you have to swear you will not tell anyone, because this could put Dylan in prison for life. Josh, I swear. No matter how bad you want to tell someone, do not say anything. I really don't want him to go to prison. But that boy that went missing at wild bills, he did it. He killed him. Josh promptly reached out to the police and spoke to Erica Wilson. I wasn't able to find out exactly when the first reward was offered, but I know it was soon after Justin's disappearance, and it was only $5,000 there was a $25,000 reward offered at least as far back as 2015, maybe further. But regardless, why would Bridget tell her 15 year old brother this in hopes of reward money instead of going straight to the police? How could she hope for any kind of reward if she had nothing to back up her claim in the first place? Making it up, as Dylan says, when I ask him to explain this, he doesn't have much of an answer other than telling me to speak with her about it.

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If you want the truth, tell her. Bridget. Is it true? You know, folks really lie on that man for a reward? Watch what she tells you. It'll blow your fucking mind. Another thing, Sean. Another thing. If you killed this boy, why would she come back around you and leave with you and go to Florida with you if she knew you was a killer? And when you had her in Florida, if you really killed him, why you? Why would you let her tell on you, knowing she done told? Is that not crazy? Why would she go with me to Florida knowing I could hurt her if I was really guilty of that? Why would I let her leave? Why would I let her come around me if I know I didn't need something? I know she's telling on me. They don't add up, man.

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It's a fair point, I guess. But Bridget wouldn't have mentioned to Dylan that she was telling people he killed someone. Dylan even goes a step further to say that investigators played a role in coaching witnesses like Bridget to implicate him, promising them favors in return for testimony.

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When you tell somebody $25,000, you'll be surprised if a person facing prison time would you know about Dylan Glass? Oh, I'll let you go right now. This is what I know. But tell me what you know. Would it be possible that he did this right here? Oh, he's coaching them. Guess what. Of course you got a motherfucker junkie looking at a $25,000 or whatever the reward is and facing prison time, you think they ain't gonna lie for you. That's what really happened.

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But already I've got a problem with Dylan's story. Bridget took a polygraph on February 26, 2008, and failed. She was asked three questions. Did you know what happened to Justin? Did you leave wild bills with Justin? And do you know for sure where Justin is now? She was found to be deceptive on all three questions and failed the test. And, yes, polygraphs aren't 100% reliable. They're just a tool used by law enforcement. But there were six experienced investigators present when the interview and test were conducted and all six agreed she was lying. Dylan told me that investigators were coercing witnesses. That's why so many people said he was involved. He accuses one person in particular of this, former Gwinnett county investigator, Carl Sims.

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Colonel Sims locks people up for charges, and then he forces coerced statements and tries to tell them he knows I killed somebody. And he coaches them alone and tries to give them fake promises. And he has a history of doing this from Los Angeles. I got that, too. I'll give you that, too. Where he did this multiple times, and he left Los Angeles and came to Georgia and did the same thing to me.

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I can't speak to whether Sims ever coerced statements from anyone related to Justin's case. But Dylan is right that Sims got into a bit of trouble in Los Angeles for tactics his department used while serving as a narcotics officer there in the late eighties. In 1988, a highly scrutinized drug raid took place at the 39th street and Dalton Avenue in one of Los Angeles most crime riddled neighborhoods. The raid was part of Operation Hammer, a large scale attempt to crack down on gang violence in the city, which was launched a year prior. The city did have a real issue with drugs, crime, and gangs, but overly aggressive tactics would come to a head on August 1 of that year. Officers participating in the raid on four apartment buildings on the corner of both 39th and Dalton were instructed to, quote, hit the apartments hard, to level them, and to leave them uninhabitable. More than 80 officers participated in the raid, and some took the orders literally, because internal affairs reports would later document 127 acts of vandalism by the officers with an ax and battering rams. The connection to Carl Sims, his name, was on the search warrant.

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I could find no evidence, though, that Carl Sims is one of the officers accused of treating any of the 39th and Dalton residents in such a way. So does Dylan Glass have any ground to stand on with his accusations? I don't know. I've heard Simms is a top notch investigator, but he has an old school style that not everyone cares for. But what I do know is that Dylan Glass confessed to his role in Justin's death and is now recanting it.

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The whole situation, in the end, when everything comes out, the only thing I'm guilty of is fucking playing with them people, man, and lying to them because they played with me. I'm all for that. I'm not facing 125 years, no more, trying to lie to get myself out of trouble, man. I still got time I don't care no more. I want peace, Mandy. I want closure with the people. I want the world to know. Hey. Your boy didn't kill that boy for real.

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These statements from Dylan Glass are a stark contrast to the confession he gave nearly ten years ago. What I just can't understand is why he would make this story up of being part of such a heinous crime, if only to take it back later. I mean, we are talking about murder here.

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I only was mad at them because they didn't believe the truth. And they kept trying to destroy me for nothing. But you, I owe you more respect than that.

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Then why implicate at least five other people at the same time? People like Leon, who's been accused of choking Justin to death.

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Leon, man, I lied. That boy ain't had nothing to do with nothing, man. And I'm not even cool with him no more. But I did that because I felt like he lied and he didn't take up for me. I felt like he know I didn't kill that boy and he wouldn't stand up for me. And he turned on me and he fucked with my ex girl, so I didn't give a fuck. I wanted him to goddamn see how I felt. But truthfully, that man didn't have nothing to do with that. That shit was lies, man.

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I didn't expect Dylan to just come out and confess murder to me. But this is just bizarre. Without prompting, Dylan tells me about another person he says he lied about.

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That's just like New York, right?

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New York and money. Remember? A dealer known as New York was said to have been present the night Justin was allegedly killed. And there are statements fingering him as the shooter. Money is another dealer implicated in various parts of the story, too.

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They guess what? They really didn't have nothing to do with that. That man sent me on a dummy mission to rob somebody. And I like to got shot. My homeboy got shot. And I hated him because I felt like he was trying to get me killed. I felt like he turned on me. But truthfully, he had nothing to do with that man.

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If you're keeping count, that's now three people that Dylan says are innocent, despite having been named in his confession. I then ask about Martin Wilkie, the man who was arrested in 2015 for concealing a death in this case. The man we know was at the marina just hours after Justin was last seen. Why was he implicated?

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Because he turned on me. Like he. When all that shit started hitting the fan, he was talking bad about me. He know I didn't do that. And he would. He wouldn't stand up for me because I used to go to his house boat. I used to go out there and sell him dope and get high with him. There were he. He turned on me. And they know I didn't do that. They know that boy never went to the house. Them folks ran through that house. None of that boys. Ain't nothing about that boy ever been there. And I felt like them people turned their back on me instead of hiring a lawyer and helping me, man, I wanted them to see how I felt. All that shit was lies.

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So, according to Dylan Glass, this story all began with him. And he lied about everything. Everyone he implicated. He did so purely because he was mad at them. But does that really make sense? If you're innocent of murder, why would you ever tell authorities that you were involved in any way under any circumstances? And why would all of these other people suddenly turn on him and him alone? Why single him out? Also, the houseboat nor Andy Pickens house were ever searched by police. They didn't feel there was enough probable cause to get a warrant, so they never even tried. I learned one more damning piece of evidence, though, that could make it very difficult for Dylan Glass to walk back, back on that confession of his. When authorities began following leads on Dylan Glass in early 2008, they found one piece of evidence that seemed to be extremely implicating. It's the primary reason that the investigation zeroed in on him more than any other person. That is, up until his confession, it was the big, shiny earring that Justin was wearing the night he disappeared. The following day, Dylan Glass and another man were seen at a local pawn shop.

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In security footage taken from the pawn shop, Dylan can be seen wearing an earring that seems to match perfectly the one that Justin was wearing the night before. I've seen a still image taken from that video footage, and you can't miss the earring.

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And you know where that earring really came from, Shannon? He's like my. He's like my cousin. He gave it to me on an 18 wheeler in the country. He gave it to me, and he had the other one. We was like best friends. I just don't tell them that. And they kept mentioning an earring that was never his earring. That's a lie.

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This differs from the multiple stories Dylan has given investigators over the years about where he got the earring. He said that he took it out of Justin's ear after assaulting him in Andy Pickens garage, a story his own mother corroborated. Bob Pullneau shares yet another explanation from Dylan regarding that same night when Justin was allegedly being attacked.

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Dylan had told another rendition of that same story and that he saw all this going on one street over where I know there was a drug house that they think they dealt with walking distance through the woods where he saw New York holding a gun to Justin's head in the street, and that Dylan found the earring in the street and put it on his ear. That's how he can justify the photograph of him with an earring at the pawn shop.

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There are several witnesses who've given similar statements that they saw Dylan wearing the earring for the first time just one or two days after Justin disappeared. Like Christy, a resident of the Conestoga trailer park. According to Bob, she told police that she spoke with Dylan not long after, on November 5, he came over to her house.

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I knew the date because it was the birth date of her close girlfriend, and that date was corroborated by that girlfriend. That's when she talked with Dylan. And Christy, for the first time had seen Dylan with an earring, a diamond earring in his ear, and that stood out to her.

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I.

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Yes, she had never seen that before in all the years she had known him.

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Dylan's girlfriend, or one of them at the time. Rebecca, told police the first time she saw the earring was when he returned from the pawn shop on the afternoon of Friday, November 2. But given these statements and numerous explanations from Dylan, while it does seem to time to Justin, there's no way for me to tell what's true and what's not, at least not yet.

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Do you. Are you aware of that? They ran DNA on it and none of his DNA on there. Right. Why they ain't tell the world that that was DNA was not on that fucking earring.

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Police obtained a warrant for the earring which Dylan was wearing when he was arrested in late November of 2007 on a drug charge. It was later tested, but did not contain Justin's DNA. It did contain Dylan's, of course, as well as that of an unidentified person. So that lends credibility to Dylan's claim. But is it possible that the earring was just cleaned removing Justin's DNA? Or could a new testing method like touch DNA provide different results?

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It was tested for touch DNA, so that kind of washes that potential out. And the DNA they took off of the earring has been used up. There's nothing else to go for.

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Even with further DNA testing off the table, I still have a feeling that earring could play a big role in this story. While Dylan Glass maintains that he's never even met Justin Gaines, it's important to recognize eyewitness statements placing him at two of the three crime scenes, Andy Pickens house and the houseboat. So far, Bridget, Christy, and Justin's college roommate Chris have all been elusive in confirming details. But I've also heard about a woman who had a very compelling story regarding Dylan. I'll call her Brandi, as both she and law enforcement have asked for her not to be publicly identified just yet as a protected witness, I had little hope for getting her on record, but I did. This is Brandi. I've disguised her voice to protect her identity.

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I've, like, tried to read about it through all the years to see if they've ever come up with anything solid, and seems like all the leads they've ever got turned into nothing.

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That's a common theme among people I've talked to about this case so far. All roads eventually dead end. But Brandi's story is a little different. She's familiar with many of the names associated with this case, and she knew Dylan in 2007.

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So I was married to someone who had grown up basically in the Conestoga trailer park, and so he was friends with all of them.

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I'm choosing to bleep out the name of Brandi's ex husband. It helps with her anonymity and to protect his identity.

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I didn't. Wasn't aware at the time, but he was using meth, and that's pretty involved with what they were all involved in, you know? So that's how I met Dylan.

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Brandi tells me her ex cheated on her with a girl who Dylan was dating at the time, which caused her to flirt more with Dylan out of spite. And no, I'm not just dredging up their personal drama for nothing. There is actually a reason for telling you this. She says that when her husband was away at work, Dylan would come around. One particular visit from Dylan sticks with her, though her memory on the exact date was fuzzy. We know from documents and records that it was the morning of November 2, 2007, the day after Justin went missing.

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Dylan actually showed up at my door one morning. I want to say it was maybe six in the morning. It was early. He was very frantic. He was just, like, in a really weird type of mood, you know? He seemed like very, I don't know, like, anxious. And he said his exact words for me. I never forgot. He was like, I think I killed someone. And I was like, what? You know, and he was like, I shot somebody and I threw their body in the bayou. And I was. And he's from Louisiana, so I mean, I didn't question that made sense to me. And I was like, fuck. Like, you know, what happened? And he didn't really give me a lot of details. He just told me that he shot them and threw their body in the body. I didn't really ask anything because that was kind of scary to me. I do remember him telling me that he did not know if Justin was dead.

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When Brandi described Dylan Glass knocking on her front door in the early morning hours of no. November 2, saying he had shot someone. Justin Gaines disappearance hadn't yet made the news because he wasn't even reported missing until two days later. Dylan was born in Louisiana. So Brandi made the assumption that this was the area he referred to when he mentioned dumping the body in the bayou. I've heard stories of Justin being taken and dumped in a swamp in Louisiana before, but it doesn't feel like those leads were ever considered credible. And one question I have about this story is, if a body was dumped in a bayou or anywhere, how could Dylan not be sure if he had killed the victim? Shortly after this encounter, Brandi told her story to the police. I asked her about several of the people who might be involved in some way in this case. And without prompting, she shared a familiar name.

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The one I'm thinking of. He might have gone by the name, like New York or something, this black guy.

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New York. According to Dylan, he lied about New York being involved. But Brandy told me that Dylan once offered to put a hit out on her ex husband so the two could run away together and New York would be his trigger man. Of course, its entirely possible Dylan was just talking out his ass or trying to impress her. But either way, she says it scared her. Since Brandi knew Dylan well during this time, I wanted to know what was he really like.

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So Dylan is always a very, like, high strung person. That could have been the mess. But he's always been kind of like, he talks a lot and he always is, like, talking about beating someone up or something crazy. The only time I ever remember him being, like, different, when he came and told me that day, he seemed very, like, anxious.

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You could say that Brandis story, as intriguing as it might be, is just that, a story, another dead end. And you might be right if it weren't for another witness's story. Before I even met with Brandi, I discussed with Bob Pullneau and Mike rising some of the facts about this case regarding Dylan glass the day after Justin disappeared.

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In particular, he went to two women's houses that morning wanting to hide out because he just shot somebody. Told people he had shot somebody? Yeah, the women don't know each other.

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I'm told that after leaving Brandi's house, Dylan and his friend Shane, the same man seen with him at the pawn shop later that same day, went to another woman's house seeking a place to hide out, claiming he had just shot someone. Her identity as well needs to be kept private, as she's also considered a confidential foreman in this case. I'll call her Natalie. Natalie was interviewed on January 30, 2008 by detectives from both Walton county and Gwinnett County PD. In the interview, she stated that Dylan and Shane were dropped off at her house by an unidentified girl in a blue Dodge Dakota pickup truck. Dylan allegedly said he had shot someone, referring to Justin, but wasn't sure if he was dead or not. Dylan also allegedly said that he had taken Justin to Walton county to, quote, finish him off. When Natalie told the two men they couldn't stay at her house, the girl in the truck came back and picked them up shortly after. And I've been trying to reach Natalie, but have had no luck making contact with her. Something from both women's stories jumps out at me immediately. Though. Both stated that Dylan said he shot Justin, but wasn't sure if he was dead or not.

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That's not likely something that two different people who don't know each other are going to make up simultaneously. And the interviews with them were conducted less than two months apart. Something else stuck out to me. It's the mention of the blue Dodge Dakota. That truck belonged to Dylan's friend Shane.

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I am positive. I don't have any proof, but I am positive that Shane is involved in that. Justin Gaines missing as well.

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What makes you say that?

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Because Shane was Dylan's best friend, and it was in 2000. I want to say, like, the beginning of 2008, I came to Lake Lanier. I stayed on the boathouse with his mom, and all of his communications were like, a lot of things about Shane. They were very whispery about a lot of stuff. And I just, you know, I think, like, after that, he just kind of, like, cut communication with me. And I felt like that it was because, you know, people knew that I talked to the police or whatever.

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The strange behavior Brandi noticed between Dylan and Shane set off alarm bells, and maybe for good reason, because he would end up being a suspect, too. Shane was, according to witnesses seen with Dylan, the night justin disappeared. And he was at the pawnshop where Dylan wore an earring thought to be Justin's. I'm told he was a regular at Andy Pickens house and at parties on his houseboat. Bob Pulneau caught up with Shane in a parking lot years ago, catching Shane off guard. He interviewed him?

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I do. Because I'm really. I'm getting tired of all this.

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Yeah.

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Be honest with you. Straight up. Dylan Glass didn't have nothing to do with that boy's disappearance. I was with him at the time. I was at his mother's with him. Know for a fact he did. Supposedly, the boy last time he was seen was 02:00 a.m. in the morning on November 2, is what I was told.

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Right.

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We was at his mother's house.

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Okay?

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That night. The next day, we went to the pawn shop at 02:05 p.m. he pawned the ladder and stuff. And we was at his mother's house with him at that time. He didn't have nothing to do with this. And they keep. They keep hiding him, and they own him, like. Like he did. But he didn't. Boy didn't have nothing to do with this. I told the police they're barking up a tree with no coon in it. Believe me, if I just. Just to put an end to all this, if I heard anything or knew anything. Yeah, I come forward with it.

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Okay?

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And that's, you know, on goddess, you know what? But I don't know anything. And I know Dylan didn't have anything to do with him.

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But his friends might always have your back. It seems not everyone is so devoted.

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So Shane was recently arrested for a completely different crime unrelated to anything that has to do with this case. He was in our jail. While they were going through his phone looking for evidence from this other case, I found text messages that were sent in 2021 when Dylan's brother Justin was arrested here in Walton. He was contacting his girlfriend at the time, basically was mad at Dylan. And he was like, when I get out of here, I'm gonna contact Justin Gaines mama.

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I'm tired of these guys. I'm gonna spill the beans on everybody.

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And she freaked out and was contacting Shane, telling him, justin's saying he's gonna go talk to Justin Gaines mom. That was the only message about that. But the thing was, to me, why are they so concerned about Justin Glass talking to Justin Gaines mom if they didn't do something?

[00:32:21]

Drowning Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series and the original score. Executive producer is Jason Hoch. Associate producer is Leo Culp. Sound engineering by Shane Freeman special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me@infochawnkype.com and if you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends. Follow waveland on Instagram avelandmedia for more on this series and upcoming new shows, and you can also find me on social media at seancipe official or@seancipe.com as always, thanks for listening.