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The frustrating part about this case, and the thing that really continues to bother me or to bother me as an investigator, is that I picked up the case. It obviously had a lot of moving parts. It It was convoluted. There were theories that had been going around, everything with the Dylan Glass all the way up to Chino. I've heard everything in the world as it relates to Justin coming up missing. But as you start to look at and interview the people that are involved, there's certain things that made sense, and then there's certain things that didn't. I'll start with Dylan Glass, and this was the frustration.

It was Balouh's son, Dylan Glass, who first came forward with information about being involved in the Gaines case. Glass is a self-professed gang member who is now doing federal time on drug charges.

He could look at you straight in the face, lie to you and not flinch. And body language is 80, 85% of communication. So when a guy has the ability to actually mask his body language and to lie straight through you, that makes it very difficult to figure out which way he's going and why.

Former Gwinet County investigator, Colonel Carl Sims intricately knows the Gaines case. He was lead investigator. Though he didn't work the case until several years after Justin's disappearance, he's very knowledgeable about all that's transpired and has personally interviewed several of the key witnesses and suspects involved, including Dylan Glass. This is the man Glass is accused of coercing witness statements to implicate him.

I came in when he came into custody on a drug charge, a federal drug charge. He gave up a lot of information and then decided that he was going to confess. That's where I picked up the case and started running hard with it because several of the things that he said made perfect sense. One thing is that Dylan had actually went to a trailer park and spoke with a couple of people that morning, and the news media had not even reported or nobody had reported that Justin Gaines was missing. Nobody even knew he was missing at that time. But Dylan Glass shows up and making an emotional plea of confession to a couple of people that he had just hurt somebody or murdered somebody. Where did that come from and why? That was one of the biggest things that was motivating that Dylan may have had something to do with it. He wasn't looking for strict credibility as some of the theories were, because there was no strict credibility because the kid hadn't been missing. He hadn't even been reported missing. So that was concerning.

Sims speaks quickly and with conviction. He's intelligent and polite and welcomed me into his home when we spoke, which is decked out in a posh Western theme. Sims told me that he came into this case with no preconceived theories and without assuming guilt on anyone at first, contrary to what Glass believes. Sims' own findings would lead him to believe Glass was involved in Justin Gaines' demise. One key witness in this case that strengthens that belief for Sims is Dylan's own mother, Tammy Ballou.

One of the biggest things that really drove me that Dylan Glass had something to do with it was that after interviewing his mother, Tammy, a lot of the things Dylan had said were actually cooperated with her. Now, keep in mind Dylan and Tammy had been estranged for years. Tammy was a hardcore meth head, moved up to the Augusta area, been out of the loop for a while, and really had not had the opportunity in in my opinion, to actually sit down and create a fabricated story with Dylan Glass. Not to the detail that it was, because while some things were vague, other things were very locked in, that they were there that night in Andy Pickens' basement, and that something did happen there.

From Waveland, I'm Sean Kuype, and this is Drowning Creek. I've talked with Dylan Glass numerous times on the phone now, but I've also spent a lot of time speaking with investigators in the case, witnesses and informants. I've been told by many that Glass is a cunning liar and manipulator of the highest caliber. Most of what I've learned so far points to Dylan being involved in Justin Gaines' disappearance and possibly in his death. So my guard has been up. In our conversations, I've allowed Dylan to tell me his story, things from his perspective. I've not pushed back very hard yet. I've just allowed him to tell me what I believe he wants me to hear. Dylan seems to have an answer for everything. A simple answer, I lied. They lied. I've also heard a recording of his friend Shane saying Dylan's innocent, and I've yet to find anything concrete that ties Dylan Glass to Justin Gaines. But I can't ignore the multitude of statements that put the two together that night. In all, I'm told there are 14 people that claimed Dylan Glass made statements statements to them concerning his role in Justin's death at one point or another.

Several of those statements related to the time period before Justin's disappearance hit the news, and some before he was even reported missing. I feel that Dylan see the death penalty.I have been trying to reach Tammy for months with no luck. I've called and e-mailed every number and address I can find, and I've even sent letters to the physical addresses I could find. I want to see what she says now. While working to track her down, I had a little stroke of luck. One day, I got a call from a number I didn't recognize. I didn't answer thinking it's probably a spam call. And a minute later, a voicemail notification pops up.Hi, this is Bridget. I was told you to give me a call about Dylan. It's good that you call that.Remember, Bridget is the young girl who Dylan claimed was the sole reason his name was ever brought up in Justin Gaines' disappearance. He said she was a crackhead who was looking for a reward, and nothing more. It was Dylan who insisted I needed to talk with her. I'd been trying for weeks to get her to speak with me, with no luck. That is until the day she, unexpectedly, called me.Hello.Hey, Bridget.Hey.You're a very difficult woman to get a hold of.I've been told.Bridget was very skeptical of me, giving short, direct direct answers, and really, she was asking most of the questions at first.How did you come about to even find in Dylan to talk to him about everything? What have you been learn that Dylan was in Shane's truck, when the two were allegedly looking for a place to hide out and at the Pawn Shop, they wanted to search it to see if Justin had ever been inside. By the time this information about Dylan and Shane came to light, though, Shane was in a local jail and his truck had disappeared. But Bob Polno was determined to track it down.I got It was a tip that he was being let out of jail on a certain day, so I waited for him and followed him to his vehicle.That old-fashioned PI work is what gave Bob the jump on Shane. You heard some of the interview in the last episode.Believe me, just to put an end to all this, if I heard anything or knew anything, I'd come forward with it.But I don't know anything.I know Dylan didn't have anything to do with it.Now, in the conversation, Shane tells Bob that he has no knowledge of Justin Gaines or what happened to him. He sticks up for Dylan and says he's absolutely innocent. After his encounter with Shane, Bob learned he no longer owned that truck and that it had been salvaged. Caught intuition, but this stood out as very odd to Bob.I called every salvage lot, every possible entity that would salvage a car or auction it.Knowing that Andy Pickens' van and houseboat were both MIA, Bob knew finding this truck was extremely important. After extensively searching, he found the man that bought the truck at an auction. The title listed the truck as having been totaled.It was very suspicious because I don't know why an insurance company, and the new owner of that truck said he had no idea how it was ever totaled. He said essentially there was nothing wrong with his truck. It just had some dents. Shane told me when I asked him about the dents in his truck or totaling of it, he said he hit a deer and he hit a mailbox.Finding this vehicle was a small victory for investigators. If there was any evidence that proved Justin Gaines had been in it, case closed. The truck was towed to Gwinet County Police headquarters and forensically processed, but there was no evidence Justin had been in the vehicle. Why did these people all get rid of their vehicles and even a houseboat immediately after Justin disappeared? How many coincidences can we look past? From what I'm told, Shane is a pretty rough and tumble guy, even though he sounded like a frightened kid in the audio we heard. He's 6'4, 300 pounds. He's been in and out of jails for years on various drug, battery, and burglary charges. Bob Will know previously told me that when Shane was being interviewed in the early days of the investigation, he seemed to get emotional when Justin's mother, Erica, was mentioned. I've heard recordings that seem to reinforce that. But that was years ago, and law enforcement was coming down hard on him and Dylan. That's to intimidate almost anyone. But when I spoke to Carl Sims recently, he told me a similar story regarding Shane's show of emotion.I've been retired almost three years now, so about a year after I retired, after I left Gwenaet County, I was actually in Walton County in civilian clothes in the Home Depot shopping for something. As I was in the aisle, I felt somebody standing next to me staring at me. You just get that thing, and I knew, but I turned and look Initially, I knew I knew him, but I didn't recognize him. It had been a while. Colonel Sims, do you remember me? I said, Well, of course I do. Now that you... Of course, Shane, I remember you. I just wanted to tell you I I'm sorry. I said, What are you sorry for, Shane? He says, I just wanted to be sorry that I couldn't help. I said, Well, could you help? Can you help? Tears came in his eyes, and he started crying. He He says, I can't. I said, I don't understand what that means. I said, You can't or you won't. He says, I just can't. I said, Shane, you look like you want to say something. I said, You know I'm retired. I'm not even on the case anymore. I said, You just want to get something off your chest.You want to talk to me? He just looked at me. He goes, Maybe one day I will. We left each other in the Home Depot. I never heard a word from him again.There just had to be something more to Shane. Why does his name keep coming up? Why did he get so emotional after all this time discussing discussing Justin Gaines.Now he's being deceitful, and you know he's being deceitful, but why is he being deceitful? So I never could pin Shane down.Suddenly, I'm struck with a dose of reality. If an experienced investigator like Carl Sims can't get much out of someone like Shane, what hope do I have? It astounds me that so many people in this case could be a part of a crime like this and not have talked, given themselves or someone else up, or flat out just made a stupid mistake big enough to result in an arrest for murder. How is this possible?The question you just asked me is the reason I didn't want to talk to you. Because whether you want to accept this or not, myself and the other investigators involved in this case were human. Now that I'm talking about this again, you just pulled the scab off the wound. Now it's back in my mind again. I'm reliving that investigation. I'm reliving the part of the answers I don't have answers to. The part that's puzzling you about wine is the part that's kicked me in the gut every day for several years while I was chasing this story. It would have been so much easier just for me to write off the fact that these were a bunch of liars and Dylan Glass was not involved in this and he was playing the hero and doing street creds. But I couldn't turn it loose because there's too much credibility attached to it. Then the fact that I couldn't prove it and the fact that Shane would never confess and the fact that Leon wouldn't talk and the fact that Tammy drove us right to where I thought the body may be and and then piss backwards on me.Those emotions are up and down. I have no clue, Sean. I have no clue why these people would... Why Andy Pickens would lie about his van. It's his van. It's his livelihood. But it's his work. It's what he went every day and drove to work. Then that night, it shows up at the lake, and now it's never seen again. It's logged in with Lake Lanier being dropped. All coincidence? I don't It's a hell of a coincidence if it is. But as an investigator, it eats at you. It eats at you because you can't tie it together. Time goes by and then you retire, and then you put it behind you until some guy sits there and rips the scab off of it because you don't understand.Like Justin's family, investigators like Sims and Bob Polno have been worn down little by little by this case. The emotional strain of being so close, yet still so far from solving this case eventually takes its toll.There would be so many nights in a row after chasing these people from hell and high water just to find them to talk to them, to get them to give you this much, and then you lay in bed at night, and then you're Your family goes, What's wrong with you? What are you thinking about? Oh, nothing. I'm good. No, you're not good. No, you're not good. These cases become a part of you. I want to know the answers, too. I'd really like to know. It's frustrating because you're given the responsibility as the investigator, as the lead on this case, to try to find it, and you feel like you're so close, you're just so close, and then it walks away.The biggest question of all to me is one that I often find slowly creeping into the back of my mind. Is this case even solvable anymore?I can't be more adamant about this. Somebody abducted/killed/disposed of/ somebody knows This case is not so old that that person doesn't live with it. Just like I live with it, trying to solve it. That person, if they're human at all, lives with the fact that they know. They may not have done it, and they may not have been the one that had a direct involvement with Justin's disappearance, but they know who did. They've got the answer, and they've got the clue that will pull all this together. So yes, it's solvable, 100% solvable.But just as things seem more bleak and confusing than ever, I spoke to Eric Wilson about Justin and the case as a whole. Through the course of our talk, she confided in me something that she had been recently given a new lead on a possible location of her son's body.I had a general and reach out to me and said he spoke with someone that used to date Martin Wilke. And this guy said, he asked the girl, Hey, what about Justin Gaines? And the girl says, Yeah, everyone knows. They put him in the toolbox, and they moved him to this location. They gave me a specific location.The lead Eric is talking about pointed to a particular cove at Lake Lanier, the lake on which both Andy Pickens and Martin Wilke's house both and where we're told Justin was submerged after being placed in a toolbox. So much of this case revolves around this particular lake, and now we have a lead on an exact spot. The worst thing that could happen if we follow this lead is we spend a little time and money and find nothing. But what if we find the black box still submerged there in the murky waters of Lake Lanier? What then? It's a gamble I'm willing to take. So that cove is where I'm headed. Drounding Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series and the original score. Executive producer is Jason Hoke. Associate producer is Leo Kolp. Sound engineering by Shane Freeman. Special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me at info@shaunkype. Com. If you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends. Follow Waveland on Instagram @WavelandMedia for more on this series and upcoming new shows. You can also find me on social media @shawnkipofficial or at shaunkype.Com.hawnkip. Com. As always, thanks for listening.

see the death penalty.

I have been trying to reach Tammy for months with no luck. I've called and e-mailed every number and address I can find, and I've even sent letters to the physical addresses I could find. I want to see what she says now. While working to track her down, I had a little stroke of luck. One day, I got a call from a number I didn't recognize. I didn't answer thinking it's probably a spam call. And a minute later, a voicemail notification pops up.

Hi, this is Bridget. I was told you to give me a call about Dylan. It's good that you call that.

Remember, Bridget is the young girl who Dylan claimed was the sole reason his name was ever brought up in Justin Gaines' disappearance. He said she was a crackhead who was looking for a reward, and nothing more. It was Dylan who insisted I needed to talk with her. I'd been trying for weeks to get her to speak with me, with no luck. That is until the day she, unexpectedly, called me.

Hello.

Hey, Bridget.

Hey.

You're a very difficult woman to get a hold of.

I've been told.

Bridget was very skeptical of me, giving short, direct direct answers, and really, she was asking most of the questions at first.

How did you come about to even find in Dylan to talk to him about everything? What have you been learn that Dylan was in Shane's truck, when the two were allegedly looking for a place to hide out and at the Pawn Shop, they wanted to search it to see if Justin had ever been inside. By the time this information about Dylan and Shane came to light, though, Shane was in a local jail and his truck had disappeared. But Bob Polno was determined to track it down.I got It was a tip that he was being let out of jail on a certain day, so I waited for him and followed him to his vehicle.That old-fashioned PI work is what gave Bob the jump on Shane. You heard some of the interview in the last episode.Believe me, just to put an end to all this, if I heard anything or knew anything, I'd come forward with it.But I don't know anything.I know Dylan didn't have anything to do with it.Now, in the conversation, Shane tells Bob that he has no knowledge of Justin Gaines or what happened to him. He sticks up for Dylan and says he's absolutely innocent. After his encounter with Shane, Bob learned he no longer owned that truck and that it had been salvaged. Caught intuition, but this stood out as very odd to Bob.I called every salvage lot, every possible entity that would salvage a car or auction it.Knowing that Andy Pickens' van and houseboat were both MIA, Bob knew finding this truck was extremely important. After extensively searching, he found the man that bought the truck at an auction. The title listed the truck as having been totaled.It was very suspicious because I don't know why an insurance company, and the new owner of that truck said he had no idea how it was ever totaled. He said essentially there was nothing wrong with his truck. It just had some dents. Shane told me when I asked him about the dents in his truck or totaling of it, he said he hit a deer and he hit a mailbox.Finding this vehicle was a small victory for investigators. If there was any evidence that proved Justin Gaines had been in it, case closed. The truck was towed to Gwinet County Police headquarters and forensically processed, but there was no evidence Justin had been in the vehicle. Why did these people all get rid of their vehicles and even a houseboat immediately after Justin disappeared? How many coincidences can we look past? From what I'm told, Shane is a pretty rough and tumble guy, even though he sounded like a frightened kid in the audio we heard. He's 6'4, 300 pounds. He's been in and out of jails for years on various drug, battery, and burglary charges. Bob Will know previously told me that when Shane was being interviewed in the early days of the investigation, he seemed to get emotional when Justin's mother, Erica, was mentioned. I've heard recordings that seem to reinforce that. But that was years ago, and law enforcement was coming down hard on him and Dylan. That's to intimidate almost anyone. But when I spoke to Carl Sims recently, he told me a similar story regarding Shane's show of emotion.I've been retired almost three years now, so about a year after I retired, after I left Gwenaet County, I was actually in Walton County in civilian clothes in the Home Depot shopping for something. As I was in the aisle, I felt somebody standing next to me staring at me. You just get that thing, and I knew, but I turned and look Initially, I knew I knew him, but I didn't recognize him. It had been a while. Colonel Sims, do you remember me? I said, Well, of course I do. Now that you... Of course, Shane, I remember you. I just wanted to tell you I I'm sorry. I said, What are you sorry for, Shane? He says, I just wanted to be sorry that I couldn't help. I said, Well, could you help? Can you help? Tears came in his eyes, and he started crying. He He says, I can't. I said, I don't understand what that means. I said, You can't or you won't. He says, I just can't. I said, Shane, you look like you want to say something. I said, You know I'm retired. I'm not even on the case anymore. I said, You just want to get something off your chest.You want to talk to me? He just looked at me. He goes, Maybe one day I will. We left each other in the Home Depot. I never heard a word from him again.There just had to be something more to Shane. Why does his name keep coming up? Why did he get so emotional after all this time discussing discussing Justin Gaines.Now he's being deceitful, and you know he's being deceitful, but why is he being deceitful? So I never could pin Shane down.Suddenly, I'm struck with a dose of reality. If an experienced investigator like Carl Sims can't get much out of someone like Shane, what hope do I have? It astounds me that so many people in this case could be a part of a crime like this and not have talked, given themselves or someone else up, or flat out just made a stupid mistake big enough to result in an arrest for murder. How is this possible?The question you just asked me is the reason I didn't want to talk to you. Because whether you want to accept this or not, myself and the other investigators involved in this case were human. Now that I'm talking about this again, you just pulled the scab off the wound. Now it's back in my mind again. I'm reliving that investigation. I'm reliving the part of the answers I don't have answers to. The part that's puzzling you about wine is the part that's kicked me in the gut every day for several years while I was chasing this story. It would have been so much easier just for me to write off the fact that these were a bunch of liars and Dylan Glass was not involved in this and he was playing the hero and doing street creds. But I couldn't turn it loose because there's too much credibility attached to it. Then the fact that I couldn't prove it and the fact that Shane would never confess and the fact that Leon wouldn't talk and the fact that Tammy drove us right to where I thought the body may be and and then piss backwards on me.Those emotions are up and down. I have no clue, Sean. I have no clue why these people would... Why Andy Pickens would lie about his van. It's his van. It's his livelihood. But it's his work. It's what he went every day and drove to work. Then that night, it shows up at the lake, and now it's never seen again. It's logged in with Lake Lanier being dropped. All coincidence? I don't It's a hell of a coincidence if it is. But as an investigator, it eats at you. It eats at you because you can't tie it together. Time goes by and then you retire, and then you put it behind you until some guy sits there and rips the scab off of it because you don't understand.Like Justin's family, investigators like Sims and Bob Polno have been worn down little by little by this case. The emotional strain of being so close, yet still so far from solving this case eventually takes its toll.There would be so many nights in a row after chasing these people from hell and high water just to find them to talk to them, to get them to give you this much, and then you lay in bed at night, and then you're Your family goes, What's wrong with you? What are you thinking about? Oh, nothing. I'm good. No, you're not good. No, you're not good. These cases become a part of you. I want to know the answers, too. I'd really like to know. It's frustrating because you're given the responsibility as the investigator, as the lead on this case, to try to find it, and you feel like you're so close, you're just so close, and then it walks away.The biggest question of all to me is one that I often find slowly creeping into the back of my mind. Is this case even solvable anymore?I can't be more adamant about this. Somebody abducted/killed/disposed of/ somebody knows This case is not so old that that person doesn't live with it. Just like I live with it, trying to solve it. That person, if they're human at all, lives with the fact that they know. They may not have done it, and they may not have been the one that had a direct involvement with Justin's disappearance, but they know who did. They've got the answer, and they've got the clue that will pull all this together. So yes, it's solvable, 100% solvable.But just as things seem more bleak and confusing than ever, I spoke to Eric Wilson about Justin and the case as a whole. Through the course of our talk, she confided in me something that she had been recently given a new lead on a possible location of her son's body.I had a general and reach out to me and said he spoke with someone that used to date Martin Wilke. And this guy said, he asked the girl, Hey, what about Justin Gaines? And the girl says, Yeah, everyone knows. They put him in the toolbox, and they moved him to this location. They gave me a specific location.The lead Eric is talking about pointed to a particular cove at Lake Lanier, the lake on which both Andy Pickens and Martin Wilke's house both and where we're told Justin was submerged after being placed in a toolbox. So much of this case revolves around this particular lake, and now we have a lead on an exact spot. The worst thing that could happen if we follow this lead is we spend a little time and money and find nothing. But what if we find the black box still submerged there in the murky waters of Lake Lanier? What then? It's a gamble I'm willing to take. So that cove is where I'm headed. Drounding Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series and the original score. Executive producer is Jason Hoke. Associate producer is Leo Kolp. Sound engineering by Shane Freeman. Special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me at info@shaunkype. Com. If you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends. Follow Waveland on Instagram @WavelandMedia for more on this series and upcoming new shows. You can also find me on social media @shawnkipofficial or at shaunkype.Com.hawnkip. Com. As always, thanks for listening.

learn that Dylan was in Shane's truck, when the two were allegedly looking for a place to hide out and at the Pawn Shop, they wanted to search it to see if Justin had ever been inside. By the time this information about Dylan and Shane came to light, though, Shane was in a local jail and his truck had disappeared. But Bob Polno was determined to track it down.

I got It was a tip that he was being let out of jail on a certain day, so I waited for him and followed him to his vehicle.

That old-fashioned PI work is what gave Bob the jump on Shane. You heard some of the interview in the last episode.

Believe me, just to put an end to all this, if I heard anything or knew anything, I'd come forward with it.

But I don't know anything.

I know Dylan didn't have anything to do with it.

Now, in the conversation, Shane tells Bob that he has no knowledge of Justin Gaines or what happened to him. He sticks up for Dylan and says he's absolutely innocent. After his encounter with Shane, Bob learned he no longer owned that truck and that it had been salvaged. Caught intuition, but this stood out as very odd to Bob.

I called every salvage lot, every possible entity that would salvage a car or auction it.

Knowing that Andy Pickens' van and houseboat were both MIA, Bob knew finding this truck was extremely important. After extensively searching, he found the man that bought the truck at an auction. The title listed the truck as having been totaled.

It was very suspicious because I don't know why an insurance company, and the new owner of that truck said he had no idea how it was ever totaled. He said essentially there was nothing wrong with his truck. It just had some dents. Shane told me when I asked him about the dents in his truck or totaling of it, he said he hit a deer and he hit a mailbox.

Finding this vehicle was a small victory for investigators. If there was any evidence that proved Justin Gaines had been in it, case closed. The truck was towed to Gwinet County Police headquarters and forensically processed, but there was no evidence Justin had been in the vehicle. Why did these people all get rid of their vehicles and even a houseboat immediately after Justin disappeared? How many coincidences can we look past? From what I'm told, Shane is a pretty rough and tumble guy, even though he sounded like a frightened kid in the audio we heard. He's 6'4, 300 pounds. He's been in and out of jails for years on various drug, battery, and burglary charges. Bob Will know previously told me that when Shane was being interviewed in the early days of the investigation, he seemed to get emotional when Justin's mother, Erica, was mentioned. I've heard recordings that seem to reinforce that. But that was years ago, and law enforcement was coming down hard on him and Dylan. That's to intimidate almost anyone. But when I spoke to Carl Sims recently, he told me a similar story regarding Shane's show of emotion.

I've been retired almost three years now, so about a year after I retired, after I left Gwenaet County, I was actually in Walton County in civilian clothes in the Home Depot shopping for something. As I was in the aisle, I felt somebody standing next to me staring at me. You just get that thing, and I knew, but I turned and look Initially, I knew I knew him, but I didn't recognize him. It had been a while. Colonel Sims, do you remember me? I said, Well, of course I do. Now that you... Of course, Shane, I remember you. I just wanted to tell you I I'm sorry. I said, What are you sorry for, Shane? He says, I just wanted to be sorry that I couldn't help. I said, Well, could you help? Can you help? Tears came in his eyes, and he started crying. He He says, I can't. I said, I don't understand what that means. I said, You can't or you won't. He says, I just can't. I said, Shane, you look like you want to say something. I said, You know I'm retired. I'm not even on the case anymore. I said, You just want to get something off your chest.

You want to talk to me? He just looked at me. He goes, Maybe one day I will. We left each other in the Home Depot. I never heard a word from him again.

There just had to be something more to Shane. Why does his name keep coming up? Why did he get so emotional after all this time discussing discussing Justin Gaines.

Now he's being deceitful, and you know he's being deceitful, but why is he being deceitful? So I never could pin Shane down.

Suddenly, I'm struck with a dose of reality. If an experienced investigator like Carl Sims can't get much out of someone like Shane, what hope do I have? It astounds me that so many people in this case could be a part of a crime like this and not have talked, given themselves or someone else up, or flat out just made a stupid mistake big enough to result in an arrest for murder. How is this possible?

The question you just asked me is the reason I didn't want to talk to you. Because whether you want to accept this or not, myself and the other investigators involved in this case were human. Now that I'm talking about this again, you just pulled the scab off the wound. Now it's back in my mind again. I'm reliving that investigation. I'm reliving the part of the answers I don't have answers to. The part that's puzzling you about wine is the part that's kicked me in the gut every day for several years while I was chasing this story. It would have been so much easier just for me to write off the fact that these were a bunch of liars and Dylan Glass was not involved in this and he was playing the hero and doing street creds. But I couldn't turn it loose because there's too much credibility attached to it. Then the fact that I couldn't prove it and the fact that Shane would never confess and the fact that Leon wouldn't talk and the fact that Tammy drove us right to where I thought the body may be and and then piss backwards on me.

Those emotions are up and down. I have no clue, Sean. I have no clue why these people would... Why Andy Pickens would lie about his van. It's his van. It's his livelihood. But it's his work. It's what he went every day and drove to work. Then that night, it shows up at the lake, and now it's never seen again. It's logged in with Lake Lanier being dropped. All coincidence? I don't It's a hell of a coincidence if it is. But as an investigator, it eats at you. It eats at you because you can't tie it together. Time goes by and then you retire, and then you put it behind you until some guy sits there and rips the scab off of it because you don't understand.

Like Justin's family, investigators like Sims and Bob Polno have been worn down little by little by this case. The emotional strain of being so close, yet still so far from solving this case eventually takes its toll.

There would be so many nights in a row after chasing these people from hell and high water just to find them to talk to them, to get them to give you this much, and then you lay in bed at night, and then you're Your family goes, What's wrong with you? What are you thinking about? Oh, nothing. I'm good. No, you're not good. No, you're not good. These cases become a part of you. I want to know the answers, too. I'd really like to know. It's frustrating because you're given the responsibility as the investigator, as the lead on this case, to try to find it, and you feel like you're so close, you're just so close, and then it walks away.

The biggest question of all to me is one that I often find slowly creeping into the back of my mind. Is this case even solvable anymore?

I can't be more adamant about this. Somebody abducted/killed/disposed of/ somebody knows This case is not so old that that person doesn't live with it. Just like I live with it, trying to solve it. That person, if they're human at all, lives with the fact that they know. They may not have done it, and they may not have been the one that had a direct involvement with Justin's disappearance, but they know who did. They've got the answer, and they've got the clue that will pull all this together. So yes, it's solvable, 100% solvable.

But just as things seem more bleak and confusing than ever, I spoke to Eric Wilson about Justin and the case as a whole. Through the course of our talk, she confided in me something that she had been recently given a new lead on a possible location of her son's body.

I had a general and reach out to me and said he spoke with someone that used to date Martin Wilke. And this guy said, he asked the girl, Hey, what about Justin Gaines? And the girl says, Yeah, everyone knows. They put him in the toolbox, and they moved him to this location. They gave me a specific location.

The lead Eric is talking about pointed to a particular cove at Lake Lanier, the lake on which both Andy Pickens and Martin Wilke's house both and where we're told Justin was submerged after being placed in a toolbox. So much of this case revolves around this particular lake, and now we have a lead on an exact spot. The worst thing that could happen if we follow this lead is we spend a little time and money and find nothing. But what if we find the black box still submerged there in the murky waters of Lake Lanier? What then? It's a gamble I'm willing to take. So that cove is where I'm headed. Drounding Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series and the original score. Executive producer is Jason Hoke. Associate producer is Leo Kolp. Sound engineering by Shane Freeman. Special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me at info@shaunkype. Com. If you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends. Follow Waveland on Instagram @WavelandMedia for more on this series and upcoming new shows. You can also find me on social media @shawnkipofficial or at shaunkype.

Com.hawnkip. Com. As always, thanks for listening.