Joining me now is Ashley Troxell, a spiritual guide and a psychedelic educator from Denver. And Luc Niferades, executive vice president of the group Smart Approaches to Marijuana. Ashley, why should we be encouraging the shrooms?

I don't know that we should be encouraging. I think we need to look at this natural medicine and the evidence that's coming out that's showing that mushrooms are safer than alcohol, tobacco, and cannabis, and have the potential to help a Americans overcome numerous mental and physical ailments. I think we need to research this natural medicine and give Americans the opportunity and freedom to use natural medicine to heal and overcome their mental health crises.

Well, natural medicine, I'm not against at all. But one 44-year-old mushroom enthusiast, mom, pushed back on her critics recently. Luke, watch this.

People say to me, Oh, well, like mushrooms are mommy's new little helper. That is not what microdosing is. Microdosing is mommy is present and aware and showing up maybe for the first time ever.

Luke, what's going on in our society that we have to lean on drugs in order to be, quote, present for our children?

Yeah, Laura, thank you for having me on. Let's just put it this way. Big Drugs, Inc. And the drug pushers that are out there trying to normalize drug use across this country are creating what I think is one of the greatest threats to public safety of this generation. You have the headlines you were just reading out. They're saying it helps you do better with work if you use these psychedelic mushrooms. Well, ask the pilot in the cockpit who literally was tripping off of psychedelic mushrooms for 48 hours and tried to crash the Alaskan Airlines plane with people in it. Then they say it's medicinal. It helps our veterans with their PTSD. That's the latest thing we're hearing. Ask the veteran who just had a mass shooting last year at the music festival in Washington State who was using magic shrooms. We cannot normalize these immensely These are highly potent, highly dangerous drugs. These are not natural medicines, as Ashley says, that we're just pulling out of the garden in the backyard. These are highly potent, powerful drugs that rewire your brain. There's an industry out there that wants you to a little bit this microdosing, which is totally unscientific.

They want you to try a little bit so they can rewire your brain and get you hooked and make a profit off of you. We've got to reject this push to normalize drug use across our country.

Ashley, when people say microdosing, who's doing the dosing and what is micro? It all seems quite subjective.

Well, a microdose is a subperceptual amount. And so generally, that's going to be about one-tenth of a normal therapeutic dose of psilocybin mushrooms. A microdose is subperceptual, which means that you don't feel like you took a drug. I microdose to overcome my anxiety, PTSD, fibromyalgia, Hashimotos, and endometriosis. I've been microdosing for two years now and have completely gone off pharmaceuticals. This has completely transformed my life. And so what a microdose does for me is it helps me tune in to my body and help me notice what's going on and address those problems. Lots of people think they're going to take a microdose and it's going to heal everything, but you need to do the work. And Denver is doing the work. We're leading the way in psilocybin decriminalization, and this psilocybin panel actually reviews this each year. And so we decriminalized mushrooms in 2019 in Denver. And at the last psilocybin review panel meeting, the law enforcement and health authorities did not have any adverse events to report, unlike the 500 others.

What she's saying, though, is totally unscientific. Okay, we got your point, actually. Let's let Luke respond quickly.

What she's saying is totally unscientific. While at the same time, she's saying it doesn't cure everything, she's also saying it does cure everything. She's listed off a host of ailments that these substances supposedly cure. This isn't the first time we've discovered magic mushrooms. The 1970s happened. We learned from that. It didn't solve all of society's ills. It didn't cure everyone's illnesses. We know what these substances do. We've been studying them for decades in this country. If there are any ways that these can be helpful medically, the FDA is doing that research. But I got to tell you, giving people these highly potent, powerful, mind-altering drugs to use at home, the only people that benefits is the industries that are selling these products and want to have a chance to sell them widespread across the country. We have billionaires and hedge funds that have put hundreds of millions of dollars in these products. They're going to make big money. They don't want any of these stories coming out.

Well, there's a lot of money to be made. I'm glad, Ashley, you're doing well, but people are going to make billions of dollars if they have anything to say about this. Mushroom, Coca-Cola next. All right, Ashley and Luke, thank you.

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