She is the author of Laptop From Hell. She's a columnist for The New York Post. She's Miranda Devine, and she's here on The Will Caine Show. Hey, Miranda.

Hi, Will. How are you?

I'm good. Hunter Biden, guilty on three counts, all counts, in Delaware. What's your initial reaction?

Look, I think it's sad. I feel that it's good that the jury did the the right thing in terms of the evidence. I mean, it was a pretty slam dunk case. He was damned Hunter Biden by his own words, which were played from his book in his own voice throughout the court in the beginning of the prosecution case, and then played out in text messages from his laptop. I mean, that was really the only gratifying part of the case, which was pretty tawdry, was seeing the actual laptop which was government Exhibit number 16. The Silver MacBook Pro was held aloft by Derek Hines, the prosecutor, one of the prosecutors. He showed it to the jury, and then he walked it across the courtroom, and he handed it to the FBI agent, Erica Jensen, in the witness box, and she identified it, yes, as Hunter Biden's abandoned her word laptop, the laptop that he had abandoned at the MacBook repair shop. Just Just a few miles away from the courthouse in Wilmington, back in April of 2019, which was just a couple of weeks before his father actually announced that he was running for President. So it was even during the trial Well, even after that laptop was entered as an exhibit, though, you had Abby Lowe, Hunter's lawyer, still trying to throw some shade on the laptop and saying, Well, what the prosecution is calling the laptop and trying to make a distinction between the laptop and the hard drive image of the laptop, but the judge would have nothing of it.

She said, No, the hard drive is an exact image of the laptop, and so we are just going to describe them as one and the same. It's laptop/hard drive. Also, the FBI and the prosecution said that the contents of the laptop/hard drive were corroborated by Much of the content that was in the iCloud that had also been subpoenaed from Apple by the investigators in Delaware, just coincidentally enough, one day before Hunter dropped off that laptop. But look, all up will It was a pretty sad event. There's Hunter Biden, all the damage that he has done to the people who loved him, particularly the women. His ex-wife, Kathleen, his brother's widow, Bow Biden, with whom he had this just explosive relationship for at least a year after Bow's death and broke up his own marriage. He introduced her to crack. That was something new that we found. He introduced Halley Biden to crack. She had a quite severe addiction and had to go to two expensive rehab sessions to get over it. Then also a young woman who was the same age as his eldest daughter, a woman called Zoe Keston, who was actually an incredible witness with an amazing recall.

He had a relationship with her for about a year while he was on with Halley as well, among all the other prostitutes and strippers and so on. She had been a stripper at a gentleman's club in New York, and she had a lot of evidence on her phone that we hadn't seen before to show that Hunter, yes, was using crack at around the time of that drug purchase. But she also was in love with him, and she was blown off by him. You could tell that her heart had been broken by him. She said he was very charming and just made you feel like you're the center of the universe. Then there was Hunter's daughter, Naomi, who's now 30. She got married in the White House, actually, last year, the first grandchild of a sitting President to be married at the White House. She tried valiantly in the witness box as one of only three defense witnesses for Hunter Biden to paint a rosy picture of his sobriety at the time that he bought that gun. But under cross-examination, her testimony fell apart because Derek Hines and Leo Weis, the prosecutors, just showed her a bunch of text messages from Hunter's laptop during that time that she was in New York.

Her father was just unavailable to her, didn't answer text messages, was supposed to swap over vehicles, wasn't available. Then texted her back at 2:30 in the morning, and the text messages captured her despair. She says at one point, I can't take this anymore, dad. I just wanted to hang out with you. She wiped her tears. She left the courtroom. It's not a happy day for anybody, but it's a measure of accountability. But it doesn't touch anywhere near what the real crimes were on the laptop, which is the influence peddling by the Biden family using Joe Biden with his ready involvement in cashing in millions of dollars from our adversaries over CSAs.

Let's stick with the trial for a moment, and then we'll come back in more detail about the laptop and the true meaning of this trial. There's been some indication, there's been some tendency, I've noticed, of people analyzing this trial to express some empathy. I think it derives from this idea of addiction. I think because so many people, so many viewers, perhaps even some of the jurors, have a personal experience with addiction, there's been this tendency to characterize or cage or frame the conversation somewhat through the lens of empathy. When I hear you talking, I don't hear that's what you're saying, because I have trouble mustering up any form of empathy for Hunter Biden. But that doesn't mean there's not sadness, because what you realize is the measure of destruction that Hunter Biden has caused in all of those people around him. You laid out his family, his girlfriend, Halley Biden, who he introduced to crack, and through the laptop, which you've written about extensively in the Laptop from Hell. In this trial, I don't see any empathy. I don't see any appropriate empathy for Hunter Biden, just sadness for everyone who is in his orbit.

Yes. Look, Abby Loe carefully chose that jury to represent people who had family members, I think seven out of twelve jurors had either close friends or family members who had struggled with addiction. The judge showed some empathy about addiction, and the prosecutors did as well. But as Derek Hines put it at the very beginning of presenting their case, he said, Addiction is not a choice, but lying on a gun form is a choice. Choosing to possess a gun while you're in the throes of crack addiction is a choice. I have empathy up to a point with addiction, but I think there's almost a tendency in American society at the moment to use addiction to excuse behavior from the addict and act as if they have no will, they have no control of their own lives. Hunter Biden had a lot of control. He was able to earn a lot of money while in the throes of this addiction. He was utterly selfish and cruel to his ex-wife, Kathleen Biden. We find out just recently that he still owes her close to $3 million in back alimony that he's never paid. She was a very sad figure.

She looked pinched and unhappy. He ruined her life. He was the love of her life, and he betrayed her utterly in every way. She was willing to help him through the addiction. But as she said in the witness box, it was the adultery that destroyed their marriage. And that adultery was with his widowed sister law, as you say, who he switched on to crack.

You said that perfectly, by the way, that in modern American discourse, addiction has become not just a disease, but an excuse for any behavior that stemmed comes from that disease. Because so many people struggle with addiction, we all... It's interesting, Miranda. I talked about this on Fox & Friends. My wife once sat on a jury in Texas for crystal meth production. Once Once they got into the deliberation room, it was revealed how many people on that jury had experience with crystal meth, not so much as users, but friends, family members who were users, and perhaps even in the business of production. They had no sympathy, no empathy for the defendant. They were ready to throw the book at the defendant and say, he's sorry. I think it's interesting how many people probably have some experience with addiction. But for those of us who have that experience, it doesn't always work as an excuse. In fact, you get pretty burned out on that as being your get-out-of-jail free card. It's not a get-out-of-jail free card for Hunter Biden. I'm curious how surprised you are. After Trump's convicted in New York, I think I knew this going in, Miranda.

We talked about it here on the Will Caine show. Outcomes in trials are products of juries, and Donald Trump was always going to have trouble having a fair shot in New York. The opposite was true for Hunter in Delaware. That was a home game. So the jury should have been very favorable to Hunter. So how surprised are you that he's guilty in Delaware?

I thought that Abbey Loal's tactic of playing to the sympathy of the jurors might work. I mean, all they had to do was convince one juror that Hunter didn't deserve to be found guilty. Because really, Hunter's lawyers never put up any defense at all, barely. I mean, there was Naomi Biden who backfired on them, and then there were There were two other witnesses from the gunshot which also backfired on them. I think that Hunter must have lied to Abby Loal because he seemed, with a couple of witnesses, to be really on the backfoot. He was shouted at by one of the guns more employees who just said dealing with the defense lawyers was a disaster. They're a mess. They were always late. I had to ring them. I don't know. Abby Loal has got a great reputation, but I guess maybe he just had a a bad client and a bad case. But if he was going for jury nullification, I'm not sure that the big show of Jill Biden coming into court every day, dressed in really bright, bold colors, looking over at the jurors, especially during the selection process, and just flying back at great cost to the taxpayer, 345,000 is the estimate on Air Force Two, a backwards and forwards from France, where she was meant to be with her husband during D-day commemoration.

I'm not sure that that really worked in the way that the Biden family thought it would to project that they're a supportive family and so on. What it really projected was a wealth and privilege and power, and with the secret service detail and the front of the courtroom, it escaped the jury's attention attention that this entire street where the courthouse was was blocked off with half a dozen, at least, big black Chevy Suburbans and all these secret service agents standing around protecting Hunter and his wife Melissa and Jill Biden and Ashley Biden. They were all there. The front three rows of the public gallery were stuffed full of Hunter Biden's family and friends, and they're all dressed to the nines. It It was like something out of Real Housewives of Wilmington. I don't know that the contrast in, I guess, class and power really played well for the Bidons, who, after all, Joe Biden has ruled the roost in Delaware for 50 years, a lot of people that I've talked to around this story who are from Wilmington are frightened of the Bidons, really frightened, and don't want to speak up. I'm sure that the jurors must have felt some measure nature of intimidation from the power of the presidency that was represented by Jill Biden every day in her bright purple, bright pink, bright red outfits.

And in fact, so much so that the prosecution as in summing up, pointed towards where Jill Biden was sitting and said to the jury, That's not evidence. Basically, don't be intimidated. You may know these people from the the news, but they're not part of this case. You have to rely on the evidence before you, and that's pretty open and shut. Look, the jurors came back within a few hours. They had an hour and 10 minutes yesterday, a couple of hours this morning. It obviously wasn't much of a struggle for them. I think they would have looked at the contrast between the privileged Biden family, their own situation in life. There are people there, teachers and retirees, and truck drivers, and just working people who also would have seen the witnesses. I mean, one of the most compelling prosecution witnesses was a guy called Cleveland, who was one of the gun store employees who sold the gun to Hunter Biden. And for some reason, Hunter must have told Abbey Lol that he didn't really mean to buy the gun, that he was pressured into it by this pushy salesman, Cleveland. And Cleveland gets into the witness box, and he's this big black guy, just very personable, very likable.

First time anybody in the courtroom laughed. The jury laughed at one point with some of his banter with the prosecution. But he was just a guy who said he loves guns. He loves cars. He recognized the car that Hunter Biden drove up in. It was a Cadillac, some a luxury black Cadillac that belonged to Hunter's father, that belonged to Joe Biden. And Hunter Hunter drove it in. Because this guy, Cleveland, loves cars, he noticed it out the window. He wasn't a pushy salesman. He just loves guns. Hunter decided he wanted this Colt 38 Special. So Cleveland sold it to him. But all the other accouterments that Hunter bought that he pulled off the shelf, for instance, a BB gun, some a gadget with knives and things on it. He also bought a speed loader and hollow-nosed bullets, hollow Point bullets. It was $900. But as Cleveland said, he gets paid the same salary, whether he sells nothing or 50 things. This was his second job. He actually drives a trash truck for the city to make ends meet. He also works at the gun shop. He was very personable. It was interesting that the day that he was giving evidence, suddenly comes into the public gallery sitting behind the Biden family was four or five black people from the NAACP.

There was a pastor. They stood before the jury came in, but right in front of the media doing a prayer circle. It was quite conspicuous. It was a performance being put on for the jury, a majority Black jury. To me, it seemed terribly transparent. I don't know if it seemed transparent to the jury, but clearly, they weren't affected by it.

I didn't know that, that it was a majority Black jury, and that was a performance in effect from those Black leaders to influence that jury, even if they weren't yet in the room, perhaps some show of support. You reported on the Bidons extensively. Let's go back to Jill Biden. I do find it fascinating that she showed such public support for Hunter Biden, to the extent to even flying back from France, as you pointed What is the relationship between Jill Biden and Hunter Biden? I guess from a distance, I know she's not his biological mother. I didn't really know, Miranda, how close they are or are not, but this was certainly a display that would suggest they are close. What is the relationship like between Hunter and Jill Biden?

Look, I can only go on the laptop, and there's quite a lot of personal discourse about Jill Biden between Hunter and various friends family members. He certainly had resentment towards her. He felt that she favored his brother, Bo Biden, who was a much easier child, a year older than Hunter. Of course, Hunter, this is where empathy, you can't help but feel some empathy for Hunter because his mother and his baby sister were killed in a car crash when he was just two years old and his brother was three, and he and Bo were quite badly injured. But the other side of that is that Joe Biden has he cynically used that tragedy in his political career ever since. He was sworn in as a senator at the age of 30 at the hospital bed of his two bandaged little boys. The photographs of That scene he's used in every campaign since. Those two little boys in the foreground, and he's getting sworn in. They brought a podium into the hospital room. Your heart cannot help but be melted by that photo. But if you step back a bit and think about it, why did Joe Biden use his children, his damaged, injured motherless boys as props?

Why didn't he do the seemly thing and get sworn in in the corridor outside instead of bringing a horde of media and photographers into that room. Then Joe Biden has made a big show of being the dutiful father who commuted back from Washington every night. I mean, I'm told that he would only get there after the kids had gone to bed, though, effectively brought up by their aunt, Valerie Owens, who was also in the court. Hunter regarded Valerie as his real mother. Valerie, in fact, sacrificed her first marriage to move in with her brother and basically bring up his kids along with her mother. Joe Biden, who was the hero of the family, the entire... His sister, his brothers, his mother, put him on a pedestal from a very early age. He was the oldest child, and he was the hero, and he could do no wrong. I think that is the essence of the problem with the dysfunctionality in the Biden family, because Joe Biden has always put himself and his career first.

Miranda, Game of Tunes on YouTube comments, Hunter is preparing a deal. He ain't doing 25 years for the big guy. What do you expect to happen next for Hunter Biden after this guilty conviction?

Look, I have no doubt that his father will pardon him during the lame duck period after the election, or if he gets rolled before that, which I'm not sure how distinct a possibility that is, I'm sure he'll make a deal with whoever would succeed him, that his son would get pardoned. I don't believe for a minute his insistence that he won't pardon Hunter. I don't think Joe Biden has been truthful about anything, and he's not going to be truthful about this. But Hunter faces a more serious trial in California in September. This is on tax fraud charges. And of course, the worst of those charges disappeared, thanks to now Special Counsel David Weiss, who slow walked and obstructed that investigation through the five years that it was going on when he was US attorney in Delaware, and we know that from the two brave IRS whistleblowers who came forward, and without whom I doubt Hunter Biden would have faced, would have been indicted or faced any of these trials, he would have just got off with a slap on the wrist. But here he is. Even though the statute of limitations was allowed by Weiss to run out on the worst years of 2014, 2015 years, in that California trial, the 2014, 2015 has been part of the indictment.

The evidence will be presented as part of the prosecution case. While Hunter can't be charged over those, it still drags in his father because, of course, that Those are the Burisma years when Hunter was getting a million dollars a year from the corrupt energy company Burisma to sit on their board. Also, it brings in the firing at the instigation of then Vice President Joe Biden of the honest prosecutor in Ukraine, Viktor Shokun, who was investigating Burisma. That can all be brought into the trial depending on how brave the prosecutors are. They've shown this time, it was a bit of a limited hangout, But they were pretty ruthless in bringing their case. For that reason, because it's only weeks before the election, I have no doubt that there will be a lot of pressure on Hunter Biden to settle the case, to take a plea before it goes to trial. As well, the conviction, the guilty verdict in this case will play against him in California. It will mean that if he's convicted, whatever sentence he gets will be exacerbated. So it's a pretty perilous time for him. Understanding at the end of the day, he gets a pardon from Daddy after the election.

Cbf HQ on YouTube agrees with you. He will be pardoned by his Daddy when he leaves in November. You point out he's still got the tax evasion charge trial that he'll have to face. He also has neglect of child support payments, spousal support payments as well. He's got more legal trouble still ahead. Whitney Smith on YouTube writes, No one is above the law, quoting Joe Biden. Joe Biden, Miranda, is scheduled to speak in about, I believe, two hours on gun control. Shockingly, today, he's giving a speech on gun control. Does he address the elephant in the room?

Look, I'm sure he will, because in a way, while it may be personally galling for his son, it's actually a plus for him politically, because he now has a perfect counter to Donald Trump's claims that his own conviction in Manhattan was rigged as evidence of a two-track legal system, and now Joe Biden can just say, My son was subject to that legal system, and I accepted the jury verdict unlike my opponent, Donald Trump, who never will admit he's wrong, whereas my family is so honest and character is on the ballot, et cetera. So although it's completely bogus, they will turn lemons into lemonade in this case. I think it's actually better for them that Hunter was found guilty than if he'd been a it because that would have just fueled Donald Trump's argument.

That is a great point. How does this play politically, perhaps into the hands of Joe Biden? That is, Miranda, that is if we believe that Hunter Biden's crimes are relegated to tax evasion, spousal support, and gun forms. That, of course, is not what anyone, most notably yourself, have been focused on when it comes to Hunter Biden. Let's walk back into now at the end of our conversation, the real issues when it comes to Hunter and by extension, Joe Biden. You have to sit here today a little bit in awe of the moment that a laptop that had been dismissed by 51 intelligence agents, and I read recently that James Clapper asked very recently, Do you regret that letter? Said, No. A laptop that would been dismissed by the intelligence community as Russian disinformation is held up now by government prosecutors as direct evidence in a federal trial. That is a pretty shocking turn of advance, and in effect, an admission, Miranda, that you were right. It was always real. The Laptop from Hell.

That's right. We would never have published if we weren't certain that it was. But it's certainly good to see it as an exhibit in the trial, as the backbone of now two trials, felony trials, against Hunter Biden. But of course, those 51 former intelligence officials, James Klapper, if they admit that they were wrong, that they had no basis to lie and say that it was Russian disinformation, then they have to admit that they were part of a coup, that they deliberately interfered in the 2020 election to ensure that Donald Trump didn't win. And we know, of course, that was the whole basis and reason for the letter, because the letter, now we know, was instigated by Antony Blinken, now Secretary of State, but then a very loyal senior advisor to the campaign, the Biden campaign. He phoned the former acting CIA director, Mike Morrell, and planted the seed of the letter in his brain. Morrell testified to Congress that he never even considered writing a letter until he got that phone call. And then a follow-up our email from Anthony Blinken with this bogus, very thinly sourced USA Today article claiming that it was Russian disinformation and claiming intelligence sources unnamed, et cetera.

This was all a plot, and most of those signatories were CIA. We have seen, I just finished writing another book. It's about the cover up. It's called The Big Guy. It'll be out soon. That talks about the shadowy hand of the CIA, which which is behind Joe Biden's career from the beginning and also behind the cover up of the investigation into Hunter Biden. For instance, the CIA intervened with the DOJ and told prosecutors during that Delaware investigation that they should steer away from interviewing Kevin Morris as a witness, Kevin Morris being Hunter Biden's sugar brother, who stepped in conveniently before the 2020 election and paid off Hunter's tax debts and funded his lifestyle, made sure that the Baby Mama case that was coming to trial and was going to be a problem, be another scandal that would blow up Joe Biden's campaign, that that was taken care of, that Kathleen Biden was taken care of. There was a lien over one of her properties because Hunter hadn't paid his taxes. So the sugar brother, Kevin Morris, Hollywood attorney, came in. On the record, he spent about six and a half million dollars in loans, supposedly to Hunter Biden.

But I'm looking at it could be as much as $10 million that he spent. He is very wealthy, but that's pretty generous for someone you've never met before. He comes in as the Night in Shining Armor, saving Hunter, but really saving Joe Biden's campaign. When the FBI tried to look at potential violations of federal campaign finance laws. Again, they were warned off by the prosecutors, particularly by Leslie Wolf, who was basically the Deputy of David Weiss in Delaware. The IRS investigators have also testified that every time they went down an investigative trail that they should have gone down in the normal course of events that would lead to Joe Biden, they were told that it was off limits. They were not allowed to interview the grandchildren, even though they had been recipients of money. They were not allowed to conduct a search of a cottage on Joe Biden's property, on his estate in Greenville, Delaware, where Hunter Biden had been living. When they were going to issue a search warrant for a storage locker of Hunter Biden's, Leslie Wolf, the prosecutor, chipped off Hunter Biden's lawyers. That was a very dodgy investigation, dragged on for five years.

They were ready to charge in 2019. What we're seeing now in terms of indictments are really the bare minimum. It's the tip of the iceberg. And of course, none of it touches Joe.

Right. And so that last question, do you think all of these charges, including what he he's just convicted of, make the real issues, the things that we're talking about now, corruption, things that extend to Joe Biden. Does it make those issues go away? Does it bring them back to the forefront, Miranda? And look, one thing about Hunter, can always say, it seems, is he's a leaky vessel. This is not a ship that you would put a lot of stock in remaining afloat. I don't know, maybe the one place in his world he's capable of complete fidelity is in his relationship with his father. But at some point, if Hunter keeps racking up personal legal liabilities, I wonder if he ever gets to the point of telling the truth about the role that he's played on some of these bigger issues.

Yeah, I think that would be certainly weighing on the minds of Joe and Jill Biden. While Hunter Biden adores his father, he's a 54-year-old man, and the relationship is still very father-child. And I guess that's because he lost his mother very young and was reliant on his father. But his father, as we know, is an inveterate liar, promised things to a little boy that he never fulfilled. There is some, I don't know, Freudian resentment there you detect in certain communications in the laptop. I always ask myself, Hunter Biden, deposited that laptop in Wilmington. I mean, it was like a ticking time bomb just two weeks before Joe Biden announced that he was running for President again. His running for President causes great problems for Hunter. While Hunter lived off the vice presidency and the power and prestige that it gave him the access, the influence, and he got millions of dollars from it, it also put a lot of pressure on him with his addiction. So I guess he just felt his father has been selfish all his life, and he was annoyed. And at the time, he dropped that laptop off. He was absolutely furious with his family.

He felt that they were throwing him under the bus and reducing him to Hunter the addict instead of Hunter the guy who'd been supporting the family for 30 years and giving, as he said, half his money to dad. I think there is mixed feelings there, and I don't think Hunter has any appetite for going down on behalf of his father. He'll be expecting 100% protection from his father, even if it destroys his father's campaign.

Right. A pardon. Otherwise, does Hunter Biden, at some point, who has definitely indulged in self-sabotage, just start indulging in sabotage? Does he sing on the Biden crime family? All right, she is the author of The Laptop from Hell. She's got a brand new book out. She just mentioned it called The Big Guy. Well, I'll be on the look out for that as well. She's a column to The New York Post. We're glad to have you here with live reaction to the guilty verdict for Hunter Biden, Miranda Devine. Thank you for being on The Will Caine Show.

Thanks, Will.

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