It is NATO's 75th anniversary and a big power planned in Washington, DC. You're looking right now at the Mellon Auditorium where all this will be going down. Among those attending, of course, will be the President of United States, closely scrutinized, no doubt, by many of his NATO members, including Andrze Duda, of course, the President of Poland, who, like the President of Latvia on this same show yesterday, said, A lot is at stake. This is sometimes even bigger than the President of United States, but the mission of NATO itself and its serious commitment to helping out Ukraine. Easier said than done. But President Duda telling me earlier, he is a little bit concerned about the President. There's a lot of attention on this 75th anniversary NATO meeting, but maybe more so this particular year, given growing questions about our President's health and whether he has cognitive issues. You've heard about all that. Does it worry you?

First of all, the most important thing is to make sure that NATO's policy is stable.

Today, the situation is, I can say from our Polish perspective, from the perspective of the head of state, of a state behind whose border there is a full scale war going on.

I'm thinking about Ukraine, which was invaded by Russia.

From this perspective, I would say the most important thing is to have a stable policy in NATO.

Today, we do not need any new super ideas. We do not need any great ideas. We have got well-tested methods which allow us to stop a potential aggressor. Today, NATO has to get stronger. It has to show its unity. But first and foremost, it has to lead a hard and consistent policy. Now, if we look at NATO as a whole, there is no doubt whatsoever that the most important state, the strongest one, which is is in fact, the leader of the North Atlantic Alliance because it has the biggest potential, the biggest armed forces in the world, is the United States of America. The stable policy on part of the United States is a fundamental importance. I want to say that I'm really satisfied to watch and to participate in a sense in American policy. We have been doing so for the last couple of years. Myself, the directly since 2015. Since I became President of Poland, I have cooperated with three consecutive US presidents, and I will cooperate with a fourth one after the next presidential election. But let me say one thing. The United States is leading a stable policy, a decisive policy, which strengthens the European security, and to me, this is extremely valuable.

We are satisfied that that we can host on our soil in Poland, American soldiers, that we host in Poland, American presidents who are saying very decisively about Polish US alliance, because this alliance is a fundamental importance to us in terms of security. That is how I assess as President of Poland, the entire American policy.

That might be so, Mr. President, but you're a young man. You're only 52 years old. You're young enough to be our President's son. A lot of people are worried he showing his age, nothing more than that, cognitively, the way he moves around, and that that is a worry for some of your colleagues at NATO. Is it a worry for you?

I'm happy that I'm still a young man because indeed, in the current circumstances, with a direct threat behind our Eastern border, the threat not only for Poland from the reborn Russian imperialism, but the threat for the entire Eastern flank of NATO, I think that as a matter of fact, there is a threat for the whole of Europe and maybe even for the whole world.

You need to have a lot of energy to serve as president.

The fact that I'm still a relatively young person, for sure, that helps me and that gives me more possibilities. But of course, there are voices which are saying, Well, that at this age, you are not that hugely experienced. You don't such a huge experience that you would need. It is true, the presidency of the United States, the biggest superpower in the world, the biggest global military and economic superpower, is connected with huge responsibility. It requires a lot of experience, and in Indeed, this experience has for the President of the United States key importance. But as I'm saying, I have managed somehow, though I do not have such a big experience as the incumbent President of the United States. Anyway, I managed somehow. There are two sides to each coin. The younger you are, the more strength you have. But on the other hand, you do not have such vast life experience. It is not such a simple answer that I can give you to this question.

It's interesting, Mr. President, because Donald Trump is only a few years younger than Joe Biden. He could be returning to the White House. You have a very close relationship with him. He calls you a friend, says you're among his favorites, along with the Hungarian Prime Minister, Viktor Orbán. Do you feel the same way about him? In other words, are you closer to Donald Trump? You visited him last spring, and that visit raised eyebrows. Did you do that in a bigger role than just the President of Poland as a friend or what?

In every relation, when there was a There's a direct relation between two people, also between politicians, because you need to bear in mind that politicians also are ordinary people, ordinary men.

They are just normal people. There are two levels. On the one hand, you've got the personal level of personal contacts, especially if you have had a lot of meetings and if you have had a lot of opportunities to discuss. The second level is the professional one. Speaking about Mr. President Trump, I can say the following.

Indeed, I have very good relations with President Donald Trump on the personal level. I appreciate him very much.

I respect him, and personally, I like him simply. It's always nice to talk to him. I am happy with an opportunity to discuss with him because this man has got a lot of life experiences, interesting ones, not only political experiences, which he gained as President of the United States, but first and foremost, he's got tens of years of experience also in business as a person who has been extremely successful in his life. But on the other hand, the years when he served as President of the United States, it is fair to say were good years for Poland.

I mentioned your relationship with Donald Trump, and I do note, sir, that when you had finished meeting with him at Trump Tower in New York, very soon later, he took to social media to say of the war in Ukraine, As everyone agrees, Ukrainian survival and strength should be much more important to Europe than to us, but it is also important to us, get moving Europe. He has almost been consistent in saying that, whereas before that meeting you had with him, he seemed to be thinking again about the wisdom of fighting the good fight in Ukraine. Is it fair to say that something you told him, something you said changed his mind?

First and foremost, It was a friendly meeting, a meeting between friends. But of course, I did present to President Donald Trump my perspective as President of Poland concerning that situation that we are having right now in our part of Europe, in Ukraine. I tell him what it looked like, as a matter of fact, because we have been watching it closely all the time. I have visited Ukraine many times during the war, so I was able to really present that situation to President Trump. I could tell him who who the invader is and who the victim is. I could say who really should receive the support. To say that the support for Ukraine from the United States was of fundamental importance. I want to stress it very strongly. Ukraine would not It would not be able to defend itself. It would not be able to defend itself until today without the assistance of the United States. Russia must not win this war. Here, the United States, as the most powerful global superpower, as manifold as a garantor of global peace and democracy, has got a very special role to play. We, as Poland, stand with the United States as a credible and loyal ally.

It sounds whatever you said to Donald Trump changed his mind, and I know there are some other NATO leaders who fear that if he were to get to President again, he would quickly withdraw from Ukraine or support for Ukraine or want it wrapped up quickly or with the concessions that you said you really didn't think were wise. For those fellow NATO leaders, what do you tell them about Donald Trump returning? Would he keep up the fight? Are you confident that he will keep up the fight for and in support of Ukraine?

First of all, let me start by saying that I always repeat. One thing, the President of the United States is elected by the American people. I know that today there are two potential candidates in the upcoming US election to the post of the President, the most important office in the United States.

But we in Europe are not making this choice. We are not the ones making this choice. It is up to the American people to decide who their President is going to be. It is American people who will decide. Honestly, nobody from outside America should interfere with that.

Especially myself, I don't see any legitimacy for myself to say who should be the President of the United States.

This is the decision which will be taken by the American people.

You have advocated, sir, that NATO members should contribute more to the defense. I believe in Poland's case, 3%, which on a percentage of population basis, puts you near the top of NATO commitments and support, certainly for Ukraine. But not everyone is doing that, and are you worried about that?

We expect our allies, also the European ones, to increase their defense spending because For more than two years, there has been the Russian frontal attack against Ukraine, and this has demonstrated how much we need to improve our security policy in the light of the current We need to increase the training in the NATO armies.

We need to increase the size and the readiness of the forces in NATO. All of that requires money. It is not going to happen for free, unfortunately. It is very difficult because you have to make a choice whether we're going to spend money on health services, on schooling, or on social welfare, or on security. But I always repeat in Poland, it is not going to be important if we have a healthcare system, efficient one or not. It isn't going to be relevant how good quality our schooling system is. It is not going to be important whether we have a good welfare system if Polish state does not exist because we are occupied by Russia, because Russia invades us. Polish people know what that means because for 123 years in the 18th and 19th century, and in the beginning of the 20th century, we were to a large extent occupied by Russia. Poland did not exist on the map. Polish people know what Russian occupation stands for. Polish people know what it means not to have your own state. That is why the Polish people today, the Polish society, agrees readily to make such sacrifices, sacrifices, which is the increased defense spending, because everybody understands the most important thing is to be safe and secure.

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