Before we get into the podcast, this video is sponsored by Prizepicks. If you like firing on sports like me, try out the app. Instead of choosing teams, you're choosing individual players. Each player has a set projection, and you choose either more or less. If you know what players are going to perform on any given night, this is a no-brainer, and Prizepicks is the app for you. Download the Prizepicks app and use code Nelk. It is a 100% deposit bonus. Plug that into the app right now, so download the prizepicks app right now and use code Nelk. Also, Elon Musk is my daddy. Thank you. We want out. We want out. We want out. We want out.

We want out. We got Don Lemon here. And now we're going to say a lot of respect for coming on Because I think people like to frame us as a right wing, conservative podcast, too. But we're down to have anybody from any side on and just have a conversation, too.

I feel that way as well.

But no, yeah. Shut out to you and respect for you for coming on. But You don't even consider yourself-I don't care what your politics are.

As long as you're nice guys, I'm fine with it. Totally fine.

So what's your day to day like now? Now that you're your own boss, you're constantly Your content and your format is a lot different than when you're with CNN. What's it like now?

It's a lot longer because I'm the boss, so I have to do the business. I have to keep the lights on, and I have to do the editorial. And that's not as easy as people might think. Before, I just had to focus on the editorial. I didn't have to focus on advertisers. I didn't have to focus on a budget, and I didn't have to focus on making payroll, and I didn't have to focus on what other podcast I'm going to go on like this. Everything was just arranged for me. So my days were long. I went to a business dinner last night. I got home at close to midnight. I did a little research about your show. I woke up at 8:00 and started doing interviews. I had Bossam Youssef on this morning. I I did a panel on the Trump trial and college protests. And then I did another show just talking about the week. And then I'm going to do another live show. These are all taped. And then I'll do another live show at five o'clock, which is just me talking to the audience.

It's not really a show. You like it more now, or do you like the whole format?

I do like it because I get to talk to people, and I actually get to hear directly from the audience. And before, where I was just pontificating, it was just a one-way conversation. And so you read Twitter comments, but that's like everybody has it.

So the arrange stuff, everything was just arrange for you?

Yeah, but I would just... They'd have an editorial call in the morning. We'd see what was happening in the news, and then we would decide on guests and what we were going to cover. And I would say, I like this, this, and this. And then there was a host of producers that just went off and did it. And then they handed me a packet, and then I studied it.

I'm just curious, how much stuff do you think you ever had to report on or did report on that you didn't necessarily fully agree or side with or was like, This is what I think is right. And you just had to say because you were a part of a network that was-Well, I never had to say anything that I didn't believe in.

But as a reporter, as a journalist, like I said, I just had Basim on. And he started like... I would ask him questions, and I think sometimes the interviewee thinks that that is my stance on things, that I believe that just because I'm asking asking a question. So he's very pro-Palestinian. And so I was asking questions that someone who supported Jewish people or Israel would ask to counter him. And so he thinks that that's my belief, but it's not. I'm simply just playing devil's advocate to get him to respond to something that... I'm going to say, well, someone who is supporting the Jewish side of this may say this. But you have to ask questions, and it's not really about your belief. It's just about getting answers from people and trying to inform the viewer or the listener or whomever. But I never had to say. I was never told to say anything when I worked for CNN.

So they don't have certain things that they want you to say.

Well, they said, don't say, I mean, that thing. But no, they never said.

Like the COVID stuff. It was a popular thing for everyone to say, this is such a bad thing. And then now people seem to be backtracking on that now.

What do you mean?

The vax thing and the efficacy of it at the time and how Ivermectin wasn't something that people should be taking. And now, Komo is out talking about how, oh, it's actually a good thing. And it was a good thing, but we were told it wasn't. You know what I'm saying? He was just on PBD's podcast talking about that. Yeah, I don't- And you and him were really pro-anti, take the thing, do it.

Well, I was pro or anti. This whole argument about vaccines is a little weird to me because I think people are Monday morning, quarter lacking the idea of vaccines.

And the- What do you mean by Monday morning?

Because remember, this was a virus that we hadn't seen before. It was a once in a lifetime pandemic, and people didn't know. And I think And what I think we have to give the people who are in charge, including the Trump administration, a little grace, because no one knew how to deal with this. And I think that our health officials and politicians were doing what they thought was best to save the most amount of people, to keep people safe and to keep them healthy. Do they make mistakes along the way? Absolutely. But that's life. And so I thought that people should be doing what would, instead of being selfish for themselves, they should be doing or we should have been doing what was best for our fellow man. I have a relative who has a compromised immune system. So whether I believe in wearing a mask or not, around that person, I'm going to wear a mask. I'm not going to be selfish. I say masks are stupid. I'm not going to do it because I am not selfish. And I love that person. I don't know if the person I'm standing next to in the grocery store or if I'm in the post office, I don't know if they have a compromised immune system.

I have someone who's on my staff who still wears a mask, and someone came in and said, why the fuck is she wearing a mask? And I had to tell that person she has lupus. And so if she got anything, a cold or anything, it's going to affect her in a detrimental way. So I think the people who are questioning the use of masks, even in the moment, we're being a bit selfish. And even vaccines. Vaccines are not new. I mean, I grew up having to get all kinds of vaccines and all kinds of shots because I live in a country where we have to associate with a lot of people. And it's really about keeping the most amount of people safe and not just ourselves. Yeah.

But when there's some of those vaccines that you're speaking to or they've had longer durations of created. They were created for a longer time. Meaning the COVID vaccine came out, it was like, Hey, it's here now. Take it. And then they had to give more and more shots and more and more shots to keep the efficacy.

I get a flu shot every year. Yeah, right.

But in regards to- That's not mandated, right?

No, it's not mandated. But a flu shot is not part of a pandemic. If we had a flu pandemic, then I'm sure they would mandate flu shots.

I guess the question comes back to, I listened to the Como speak and listened to I think a lot of what people are talking about now is saying that they knew that there was other methods that people could have done, like Ivermectin was one of them that helped.

I don't think they knew that Ivermectin. Ivermectin was not a COVID, was not meant for COVID, has not been tested for COVID. And so people pushing back on Ivermectin, I think it was the right thing to do because there was no medical evidence that Ivermectin could help save people from getting COVID or prevent them from getting COVID or had any effect on the COVID-19 vaccine. So What our health officials, I believe in medicine, I believe in science, and I believe that my government is looking out for me and trying to do the best for me. And if my government is telling me a vaccine that was actually that Donald Trump helped to facilitate, and Donald Trump was not a candidate that I really respected. Even with him, I believe that my government is looking out for me. And so if scientists, if doctors, if virologists are telling to me that this vaccine is safe and that Ivermectin has no effect on the COVID vaccine, then I'm going to believe in science.

On the COVID vaccine or the COVID virus?

Because the vaccine- I'm sorry, not on the vaccine, yes. On COVID. And then I'm not going to believe in the science, and I'm going to believe in the doctors.

Which is fine, but shouldn't other people have the right to not take the vaccine and not be forced to put something in their body that they didn't want to?

Yes, you're an American. You have the right to do that.

But it seemed at the time, media was really shaming people. If you didn't get a vaccine, It's your fault.

Well, I don't know if the media was shaming people. I think what people were saying was, I think people were being selfish about that. If you don't get the vaccine, then don't get the vaccine, but don't expect to be able to do and go places where people who got the vaccine- And work and make a living, right? Everybody's working from home. People weren't at work.

I mean, you couldn't go to school.

Did you get the vaccine? No, I didn't get the vaccine. I didn't get it.

No, I got the vaccine. But if someone in my office didn't want to get the vaccine, then I would tell them to work from home.

Did you get a VaxCard, too? Yeah. I paid 2,000 for a fake one.

I got scammed. No, but seriously, I thought, it's fine. If you don't want to get the vaccine, then that's fine. If I didn't get the vaccine as a kid growing up, I couldn't go to school.

But from your perspective, all this shit aside, couldn't you have seen that the whole legacy media was like, you need this? And to a lot of people was like, okay, is this just about protecting and helping people, or is it about big pharma and big business and money?

I believe that's a conspiracy theory. I know there's big pharma, and I get all that, but I think that's a conspiracy theory. They're all so related, though.

But they were making so much money off it, too, right?

Fine. But we were in the middle of something that nobody knew about, something that was new, that was killing people. I remember when I worked for NBC, and we did the SARS vaccine, the SARS pandemic, and no one knew. We were leaving equipment at people's homes because we were afraid of being infected. No one knew. And so I think people were trying to do what was best for their fellow man, the best for the American public. And that's my honest belief. I don't think the media was trying to push. I think the media was putting out what the government and what our officials were telling us what was good to do. There was a point where we were wiping mail and leaving it so that the germs could go away. We were taking our clothes off. And when we got into the house and throwing in the washing machine and jumping in the shower, nobody knew. So give us, cut it some slack. I don't think everybody's out to get everybody. Anyways.

I just think there was a lot of evidence, too, that it wasn't really affecting young people. And if you did your own research, for me, when I looked into it, I was like, I don't know if I'm at risk as much. I don't think I need to get the vaccine. And that's why I chose not to get it.

I didn't want to get a shot when I was a child because I was afraid of needles. But my parents told me I needed to get a shot in order to go to school.

But those ones could be good for you, too.

Yeah, but I think the vaccine is good for you, too. I think the vaccine was good for people. I don't think so. I think the vaccine was good for people. I don't think so.

I think they just recently, AstraZeneca, I think they just came in. It was like, We're taking this off the market because it's actually so many problems related to this.

There's problems related to the drink that you have. I'm sure that some people may be allergic to that, but that doesn't mean- But in a time where you couldn't work or you couldn't go to school or you couldn't...

I own a gym, and I couldn't have my gym open. And a gym in that certain situation where has there so many other benefits and health benefits that are actually combating the things that also the vaccine we're trying to help with that you could do naturally, that we're all now saying, Oh, this is actually really beneficial, and people should have been able to do this the whole time. And it's just like a weird, we're just going to say, Our government cares about us so much that we're going to dismiss all of this stuff that is really also beneficial to us and just go take this thing that is a for-profit business. It seems a little disgenuant.

Well, I'm sorry that your business didn't operate.

I mean, that-It did. I did. I stayed open during the pandemic.

There were people who lost their businesses. That's 100 %. That's a whole different thing. I'm not advocating for anybody to lose their business. But we have to remember, guys, it's not just about here in America. The entire world was shut down.

There's actually places that weren't shut down. It had a very good outcome with COVID.

Yes. But for the most part, the entire world was shut down. We did not go to work. For 14 months, I drove two hours to work and 2 hours back because I was the only one coming in to work into the building. I had to go from Long Island into the building. That was a sacrifice that I made. Everybody has to make sacrifices at some point. And it's unfortunate that there are consequences to that. It's awful. Did I want to not see my family and my mother for two years? No. But I also did not want my mother traveling on a plane or me going because I have to work and be around people and affect her health, possibly. She's an 80-year-old woman. So I was looking out for my fellow citizen, and I could have lost my job. Maybe people weren't going to watch the news anymore. People were upset about us talking about the vaccine. There are consequences for everything. But I just think it's, and I respect how you guys feel about the vaccine, but you're asking me my opinion. I think people are looking... Hindsight is 2020. We did not know.

I think a lot of people did know. Just like, if you said the other- A lot of people thought they know, but everybody's not doctors, and everybody's not a scientist, and everybody's not a virologist.

And so listen to the scientists and the doctors and the virologist, and maybe the science changes over time. Or your knowledge of the vaccine or your knowledge of the disease or the virus changes over time. It evolves as you learn more. And so I just don't think it's fair to talk shit about people who are trying to help people. I just don't agree with that.

I think what was weird, though, about the whole situation is, even if you did have your own opinion on it, too, even on social media, your posts would get deleted.

That's what made the whole COVID situation feel fishy, and it felt like a form of control.

Was that posts were getting deleted?

That was a whole misinformation thing. I think if people are spreading misinformation and lies-But define misinformation I think people look, I believe in freedom of speech. But I think if people are actively spreading misinformation, it's going to hurt people. And if it's going to put their lives, their safety, and their health at risk, then I think it should be corrected.

It's just so impossible to define misinformation at such an early stage of a virus, too. Who decides what's misinformation? Facebook and Instagram.

What's more important, your Internet post or somebody's health?

Why were gyms closed now? Gims is like the mecca of working on your health.

Well, Jim is like the mecca of people. That's of people and pushing out and it spread. It was airborne.

That was proven wrong, too.

Yeah, it wasn't actually.

That's what they thought. But that's what they thought. You're proving my point. You're saying that was proven wrong. But in that moment, in that time-That's by the same doctors that we were listening to.

But we didn't know. But there was a lot of virologists and doctors-I guess the doctors didn't know.

Nobody knew. That's like before. Nobody knew about cars before there were cars.

But there were a lot. I think what you're saying is pretty fair, though.

It's fair, but there were a lot of virologists and doctors who were actually opposite of what mainstream was touting. That's all true. And they got shut down.

That's all true.

But still-So if you have 10 doctors saying, This is a great thing, and you have 10 doctors saying, This is a terrible thing, then why are we only choosing push the narrative. It's a great thing, and you need to do it.

Because you go where the majority of the science is pushing you to go. That's what you do. Honestly, guys, I don't get it. I don't get Which part? I don't get it because do you think that I liked wearing a mask? Do you think that I like not seeing my family? Do you think that I like being cooped up in my house? Nobody liked it. But I need to just say, Everybody was wrong, and our government was doing doing this and the media is doing that. I just think it's Internet brain. I think a lot of people just thought it was a form of control, though.

And I guess that's our only disagreement is, like you said, you trust the government and you think they're looking out for you. And a lot of people think the exact opposite.

I don't think the government is always looking out for me. But I think when we're in the middle of a situation where there is a worldwide pandemic where lives are on the line, I think the government is going to look out for us.

I think they weren't looking at me. That sounds like when the most money could be made, in my opinion.

I think It was the complete opposite.

I don't believe in that. I don't believe that this was about money. The drug companies want to make money, but I don't think that telling people to wear masks and get a vaccine- Isn't it so easy, though, if those people are just lobbying the government saying, make everyone take the vaccine? No, I think that's a- That's like an easy It's a crazy money trail, honestly, isn't it?

Massive. I think that's huge. That's like a two-step money trail.

I just don't agree with you on that whole thing. I'm sorry. I don't.

That's fine.

You can keep questioning me, but I don't mind it. I'm not upset, but I just don't agree with you on that.

So let's switch a little bit.

Especially for someone like me. I'm a minority. I'm a gay man. I shouldn't trust the government. People aren't necessarily looking out for me. There was a time when the government thought I couldn't get married. So I have enough confidence, though, in the American system, especially, again, in the middle of something that no one had ever heard of, that I have enough confidence that my government is leading me in the in the right direction. If my government wants to make money, then they're not going to want to kill me because I'm not going to be able to spend money.

So I guess that's just Dawn's philosophy. He trusts the government, and a lot of people just don't. Which makes sense.

Well, because then we get the conversation about all the other ancillary damage that happened because of just foregoing people's jobs and all the other stuff that came with like, okay, if I'm going to not take this vaccine because I'm more siding with this other scientist or this other virologist on what is actually working to prevent COVID or to make my symptoms better. I'm thinking about this more natural remedy or herd immunity instead of this just like, I'm going to take this thing because blindly my government tells me to do it, and what they know at the time. I guess the question goes to be like, well, what about all the other life that it really detrimentally affected that we're just saying this is not as important because we're so focused on these other lives that are... That was my biggest beef when personally was like, okay, we're going to shut down a gym. We're going to shut down these businesses. But like, Costco down the streets open, all these other places are open and it's okay, and this place is not okay, and you can't go here or do this or do that. Other people's kids in school, for example, they're not going to school.

We're up the education thing even more. It's all these other things that are going to have all this trickle-down effect and damage that we're just saying, Fuck all that. Let's just focus on this right now. And it's like, our focus where the point was on just the vaccine, take the vaccine, and this is the only way, and everything else is like, smoke and mirrors or a conspiracy, for better words. It just seemed like it That doesn't feel right. Because then we go, none of this matters. Only this matters. Do this because we said it. And then you have everyone paring the same shit.

I think he said the same thing, though, no one knew how to handle the situation. I get it.

But at the same time, you're right.

Wasn't it just It wasn't just vaccine, too. It was social distancing. It was masks. It was hand sanitized. I remember it all. It was all of that stuff. So it wasn't just focusing on a vaccine.

It was focusing on control is what it was focusing on. And it wasn't allowing people to go, oh, I can say, I believe this.

You have to have a control over society. What do you think the cops are? That's about control. What do you think laws are? That's about control. What do you think a speed limit is? It's about control. What do you think having insurance for your car is? That's about control. Having a driver's license, It's about control. You have to have levels of levers of control in your society, or you have a society that is- It's chaos. It's chaos.

But where are we deciding what life is mattering more? How did we determine that?

Well, for me, the lives that mattered more during COVID were the lives that were compromised the people who had a better chance of getting sick, like frontline workers and health care workers. And I didn't know. Babies, we didn't know whatever, or people who have compromised immune systems. So I'm a healthy person. You're a healthy person. Okay, I'm healthy, but I don't want to make somebody else unhealthy, because if I got virus, then I'll probably live and survive. But I don't know if my 80-year-old mother is going to survive. So I'm going to wear a mask. I'm going to social distance. I'm going to get a vaccine or a shot that can help prevent the spread of it or help me from getting it. And so that's what I did. And I think that people should respect that. And just like, I respect your right. If you didn't want to do that, you want to get a vaccine, then don't get a vaccine. But I think that you have to have control Control or there's chaos, as he said. Yeah.

Yeah. I think people weren't saying that at the time. But yeah, no, I just think, like I said, I think a lot of people just don't trust the government. You think that there's no level above the government, or you don't think that big companies- I just told you that I don't always trust the government.

But I just said in that situation where there is a worldwide pandemic and that we didn't know what the hell was going on. No, but in general. I trust that my government was looking out for me.

I would hope that my government was looking out for me. In general, though, you don't think there's another layer above the government It's like big pharma and the military industrial complements that play a huge role in the way things are done.

Well, I mean, you're talking about making money, right? Yeah. That's what we're about, capital. You're talking about capitalism. We live in a capitalistic society. Everybody's going to make money. I mean, you have a sponsor here.

By using the government to force people to- They're selling that.

They have that to make money. You have a podcast, right?

But that's using the government to force people to do something in order for a company to make money.

Government forces you to do things every single day of your life. You got to pay your utility bill. You have to pay your taxes. You have to get a driver's license. You have to get insurance. But that doesn't make sense. But I don't think it makes sense.

I think it makes sense.

I don't think it makes sense. You don't. I do think it makes sense, but I'm just I'm explaining you because I don't believe that I should have... Why should I have to go every four or six or eight years and pay for a driver's license and whatever, just give the government my money or whatever it is? Why should I have to pay taxes if I I don't want to pay taxes because I want my money and I want to be selfish and I don't want to help out. So you can say the same thing about a lot of things.

Taxes could be debated, too.

Yeah, well, for sure. But we still pay them. And we get jailed if we don't. There are consequences.

I think I think that there was one thing about COVID, to me, it showed how powerful the media was, though.

You thought the media was powerful?

Yeah, for sure. Me too.

I think if- I'd like to hear about that.

How do you describe that? I never thought we were that powerful. I really didn't. How?

Just not even just traditional media, but social I think that for me, what it showed is whatever the government... Same thing, they were deleting stuff off social media. Whatever was on our phones at that time, we were believing.

Yeah, that was the thing. Just the fact that- That was the most powerful I don't know how the media has ever been. Yeah, I agree with that. Because you obviously- You said you didn't believe the media.

But I'm saying a lot of people did. Look what happened. We look at our phones and we say, Stay inside, don't go outside, lock yourself in your door, or lock yourself in your house. Everyone does it. And then the second you look at your phone and everyone says, Oh, Okay, you could take the masks off. Everyone takes the masks off. Whether it was true or not, even if it was true, it did show me how powerful social media and the media was.

Because, for example, obviously, you were able to get on CNN or whatever We didn't talk about whatever you were supposed to talk about or whatever you wanted to talk about in a sense. But from our perspective, I've been doing content for 14 years now, and you literally couldn't say something that was opposite of what was being said over here. Whereas over here, as in what you were talking about me.

You could say, what do you mean? On social media?

On social media, you couldn't say- You would get your account deleted. You couldn't say the vaccine is like, Don't take the vaccine. You had to say what they were saying. Otherwise, you were getting penalized. You were getting hidden. You were getting deleted. You couldn't speak opposite of what was being spoken on legacy and major.

If you even put the word COVID, it will take down the request.

Look, I didn't work in social media, so I don't know what was happening. No, that's why we were explaining it to you. But I do know that there was an effort, and I think it was the right thing to do is to try to limit the spread of misinformation. And again, this was an unusual time in the entire world. And so we don't live in that time now. And things have eased up. You can say pretty much whatever you want to say on social media within reason. So I just think that we're taking this really from an unusual time that happens. It will never happen, probably in either of our, none of our, in our lifetime. I think it's important to talk about. Yes, it is important to talk about. But I just think that when you think about it, you have to think, I don't know. Nobody knew. But it is normal to be upset. It is normal for you to have resentment about it. It is normal for people to have questions about it. It is normal for people to feel like, you know what? My kid lost out on education and is having trouble relating to other people because we kept them home, and maybe we shouldn't have.

But the thing is, maybe we shouldn't have, but we didn't know.

Are you okay?

I hate it. I hate that we didn't know. It's like, But some people knew, and they were silenced.

Stani is trying to get a Pfizer, or something like that.

How How could some people-Yeah, what the fuck?

How could some- I'm so over talking about COVID, bro.

I hate it because I feel like this is how I feel. It's over.

Yeah, it's done.

What's next?

Yeah, it's hard. That's true. It's hard to... I can accept it because I've accepted it.

You should put it in the past. You've opened a new gym since then.

Yes, but it's not about that. It's about the people who... Their whole lives are ruined that you can't just go, Hey, it's over. Sorry. It's different now.

Yeah, but people's lives are ruined for smoking pot. People's lives are ruined for selling weed, and now it's legal, and people are making millions of dollars.

Yeah, but what you're talking about smoking by selling weed versus, you have to take this vaccine or you can't go to school. You have to take this vaccine or you can't work.

And all I'm telling you is that that happened That's a reality. We cannot go back and change it.

But that's not the same as saying someone smoked weed at that high. We should move on. No, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying there are people who are sitting in prison. We won't agree on this. I'm saying there are people who are sitting in prison now for smoking marijuana or selling marijuana. And now everyone is out on the street smoking marijuana and making gazillions of dollars selling it legally. And there are people who are sitting in prison who are doing the same thing. It's funny.

Kamala Harris is a big weed jailer.

That's I did it. Yeah, whatever. Since you said it. Yeah, but there are a lot of people who are- Wait, why? No, Kamala Harris is known for it. She's a former prosecutor, and you're saying that she sent people to- But she went after a lot of people for marijuana?

Yeah, marijuana. Got to hear that. That's crazy, bro.

What do you think about that since you brought weed up? Wait, hang on. I'm trying to help you. You smoke weed? That's bullshit. Do I smoke weed? No, I have nothing against it. I would smoke weed. I used to smoke weed. I used to do edibles. I just don't like the way it makes me feel. I get anxious. I would rather... I get anxious. I go inside of my head too much. I can't really remember shit. I'm getting older. My memory is already going, and I would prefer to do mushrooms.

Yeah, me too.

Damn, let's go. Here we go.

You guys made up.

Here we go. Oh, shit.

Now we're homies now. What do you think about all the You said you did a podcast before this. Everything going on at Columbia, UCLA, campus is getting taken over. It doesn't seem- That's a very broad question. Well, it doesn't seem like people want to say you have the right with the first amendment. It's in a protest, but it's an encampment. They're literally camping on college campuses, closing down buildings. It's getting a little out of hand. Taking down the American flag, raising the Palestinian flag, it just seems like there's no border there.

Well, again, that's a broad question because as you know, you guys know who Basim Youssef is, right?

No.

He is a Palestinian. Is he a Palestinian? I forget what he is, but he's Arab. And he is very pro-Palestine, and he has family members in Gaza, and he's a comedian, and became very outspoken after this started happening, this interview with Piers Morgan that went blah, blah, blah. If you listen to him, you hear a certain perspective. Then, as I told you, it was at this work dinner last night, and I was sat next to a rabbi. If you listen to the rabbi, it's a completely different perspective. I think it was like people talking over each other. So my advice to... The rabbi asked me my advice last night. My advice to the rabbi was that you can't tell people they're stupid, that they don't know their history, especially kids who are going to higher institutions of learning, so that they can learn how to critically think. And they are testing the bounds of first amendment, their freedom of expression. You can't tell them they're stupid, because then you're never going to get anywhere with them.

Yeah. But do you still think they're protected by the First Amendment?

Well, no, that's another question. And so for the other side, a similar thing. You can't tell people it's a genocide. It's whatever. Those are trigger words. I just think they're talking over each other, and this is a conflict that neither of us are going to-For sure. And it's been happening for centuries, and it's not going to happen over the next few weeks or the next few months. Now, the whole first amendment thing, I believe that this has gone beyond the first amendment. The first amendment is actually for governments and for public institutions. These are public institutions, and they have to... Or these are private institutions, most of them, and they don't have to abide by that, by the First Amendment. They can abide by the spirit of the first amendment if they want to, but also they have the right to be able to make sure that their university and their business is operating, that kids are in class. That they're doing what they're supposed to be doing as educators and people who are tasked with making sure that people on these campuses are safe. Should people be able to protest? Absolutely. It's the bedrock of our Constitution in America that we are able to have our freedom of expression.

Does it mean that you have to agree with someone? That's what the First Amendment is for. It's for speech that you disagree with. I don't like the violence. I don't like the anti-Semitism. I don't like the Any bigotry or racism.

Taking down the flag, I think, is just disrespectful.

Yes, it is.

Especially when you live in America. It is.

But here's the thing. We have the right to burn our flag. We have a right to criticize our country. It doesn't mean that I agree- Burning the flag? Yeah, I hate that. Well, you have the right to do it. You have the right. But like you said, that's- It doesn't mean that you should do it. Listen, and I am not agreeing that it's okay for people to do it, but you have the right to do it.

Well, that's what I thought.

Yeah, I agree. We've had Dana White on a few times, and he's talked about how people are so afraid now to be proud to be an American.

Yes. Which I think is- But I don't think performative patriotism is being proud of being an American. I just think it's performative patriotism. Being a patriot actually means knowing and understanding that people have the right to do things that we don't like in America.

But burning the flag is such a lack of respect for the country that you live in. I agree. And I feel like they don't appreciate I appreciate enough that they live in a country like America.

But people have the right to do it.

Of course.

And if we're going to believe in our- I think it's crazy. Democracy, then we have to allow people to be able to do that.

What do you think about it, personally, burning the flag?

I just said I don't agree with it. I don't like it.

Yeah, it's just crazy. I don't know. I saw Columbia, I think, canceled their graduation and stuff. Just gotten completely out of hand.

Am I not? That's fine. Got you.

It's a full-sum podcast. We're a little We're really long ago.

He likes to keep finding his little moments in there.

Yeah, he likes to get his camera time, too. He comes in for one mic fix.

I have a question for you in regards to going from mainstream to social media, Holi, right? Because you went to do some stuff with Elon Musk on X. Digital media.

Yeah, digital. Yeah.

Did you expect to have more, I don't know, whether it be viewers or engagement or less, like when you left, did you have a higher expectation? Because for example, Tucker, I don't know the relationship, I don't know details, but he left legacy and massively blew up on social media, Twitter, X, all this. His numbers are insane. No, you're smiling.

Why? Because we don't know if those numbers are real, but that's okay. But go on, what's your question?

I'm sensing shade here, by the way.

No, it's not shade.

I don't shade people. I just tell the truth. Do you think Tucker's buying views? Do I think what? You think Tucker's botting views? No, I'm just saying that people are in control of their own algorithms. How? Are you kidding me?

You mean like buying views or buying?

I think that Tucker could be getting pushed harder.

That's, I think, what he's going to-But Tucker is big. Tucker's big, though. But that's no secret. The entire reason that I was going there is because I wanted to do this, what we're doing now. And they were going to amplify my presence on the platform. So you can amplify who you want, and you can suppress who you want. I'm not saying that they're doing that. But when I said, you don't know if numbers are real, you don't know what they're doing with their algorithm. And for them saying, Don, we want you to come on the platform. We're going to amplify your thing. We're going to give you this, and we're going to do this, and we're going to do that. So I don't know. Listen, I know Tucker. I have nothing against Tucker. We've spoken a couple of times, so I'm not saying anything shady about Tucker. More power to him. But Tucker also has a much more concentrated and bigger audience than I do. There are only so many places in mainstream media where Conservatives can go and they feel like they're at home.

It is- Why is that?

I don't know. I don't know why that is. But I So that in the spaces that I am now, it's much more conservative than mainstream media.

It's interesting. That's interesting to me. That concept is interesting.

I think Conservatives felt like they didn't have a home in legacy media. So they built a new... They They were the pioneers in streaming and online and podcasting.

It's interesting, though, because it's just the audience then. It's like, that's what the people are wanting. You see what I'm saying? Because I don't think it's enough to be buying I have like 30 million views on Twitter.

Well, he didn't say Biden.

Well, I think this- So like, Tucker did an interview with Putin after he got fired from Fox. He exploded once he got fired.

Well, yes. But I mean, Tucker, I think, was way be more powerful on Fox News. I think Fox News is an engine for conservatism, right? So I think he had... Listen, this is going to sound like I'm shading Tucker, and I'm not. I think he had much more relevance over the culture, much more influence, I should put that, say, over the culture at Fox News than he does now on streaming. It doesn't mean that he doesn't have a lot of eyes on him. But an interview with Putin on Fox News would have had much more an impact than it had on Twitter.

I guess when I look at it, it almost feels like, I don't know, the, I guess in this conversation, the right side of things were just maybe more hidden. I guess not necessarily hidden.

I think it had a big impact, though. Yeah. I thought Putin was just boring.

I thought he would be bigger on top. Putin was boring in that interview, though. It would have had a bigger impact. Listen, there is legacy media is shrinking. Cable news is shrinking. We know that. But there's still a cache television that streaming does not have yet. And you can say a million things on streaming. I could say same shit that I would say on streaming that I would say on CNN that would blow up. You could say it on streaming and people don't pay attention to it. Every content provider, every YouTuber will tell you the same thing. Jake Huger will tell you the same thing. David Pacman will tell you. Everybody will tell you the same thing. That it's just television still has this outsized influence in the culture, and many people don't realize that it's diminishing.

How did the whole X thing come about? Did you reach out to them or they reach out to you?

No, he tweeted, I want you to come on the platform several times.

Do you regret how that interview Where did you went?

No. I have no regrets, I should say. No, I don't regret.

Can we go over what you wanted from X?

This is what I wanted.

Wait, can I read this tweet?

You can tell if it's-If it's fake news or not.

If it's fake or not. Yeah, I'm not saying it's accurate, but a free cyber truck, a hefty 5 million advance, 8 million salary, equity and X, control over news content policy changes, private jet to Vegas, luxury accommodations, and the company to cover day drinking and massages, which the last two I agree with for sure. Drinking and massages. Did they not want to cover drinking and massages?

Let me just say this. So January, we were in dry January. Okay, so there's no-So that changes everything.

There's no drinking.

Yeah. So I wasn't drinking. So I'll just say to you that I may end up in litigation with them, so I don't really want to talk about it. But I will just say to you, don't believe everything you read. And you would have to think- But what if the government said it?

Why would-It wasn't dry massage January, though.

But listen. Sorry. I would say, don't believe- I'm going to negotiate my next deal. Don't believe everything you read, and you'd have to wonder, why would someone leak that?

Yeah.

Oh, nice. Damn.

Why would somebody leak that?

The most viral clip from that whole interview is the ketamine question. What was the angle there?

I wanted to know why he used ketamine. I didn't ask him about anything that he hadn't talked about publicly before. Yeah.

Because even he reacted in a way like, wow, that's really personal to ask about someone's prescription.

If he hadn't talked about it, I wouldn't have asked about it. He is number one, the main reason I asked is because he talked about SSRIs and people should be looking at other things for depression and mental health than traditional, as you say, big pharma. And I agree with that. So I asked him about it. The other thing is that he has a lot of government contracts and clearances. And if he worried that that was going to possibly affect those. So he's a very consequential person to the world. So I think that that question was very much in line. And when he said to me, Has he talked publicly about doing ketamine?

Yes.

Yeah. So when he said, Listen, I said that because I think I'm paraphrasing. I want to take the stigma off of depression depression, and I believe that people... And I said, great, I suffer from depression. I take an antidepressant, and I have had guided medical therapy. I agree with you, but it was two people talking past each other. He didn't hear me. And so I don't know why he became upset.

Were you surprised about the backlash you got from that?

Like even in the comments? Yes and no. I was surprised that people were surprised that I was going to ask him pretty simple, basic questions. But I was also surprised that the response, most of the response has been around capitalism. You had the opportunity for someone to make you really rich, and you did that. And I was like, no, I'm not I'm fine. I have money, but I am... Nobody buys me. I'm a journalist. You hired me. You didn't hire me. He wasn't my boss. It was like, we had a content deal, a partnership, because of the work that I have done, the work that you have seen, you asked me to join this platform. And so I want people to know about you and know about me and the people in my world are wondering why you feel this way about this, why you put out there. And then our second conversation could have been Bros Drinking Bier, but our first conversation could not be that. I was simply asking him about his own public statements.

You could have started with the Drinking Bier first. Yeah. Yeah. Warm up a little bit. Maybe you crack a cold one first, before you bust out the ketamine. I can't go straight to the K-Hole.

No, I said a drinking beer conversation.

You usually have a drink with someone before you do ketamine with someone, right? No. At least that's what I've done.

No. I've never done ketamine recreationally to-Me neither.

I don't think anyone else.

Only once in Colombia.

Yeah. Really? Toosy.

One time.

So do I answer your question? I don't even remember what we're talking about.

What is it? Do you have thoughts?

You asked me if I regret it. No, I didn't regret that. Nice.

I've been sitting up here all night, bud.

What are you doing? We're having a back check.

We're having more than two thing here.

Boys, boys, boys, boys. What are we doing?

All right, I know we're down 8-0. The odds are stacked against us right now. Let's get back out there.

Let's get eight straight. Let's turn this around, boys. Let's go, man. Let's go. Guys, you can do this. Gentlemen. Oh, shit. The game started two periods ago. This is embarrassing.

Hey, ref, can't you see we're in the middle of something?

I mean, I'm going to be in the middle of your wife soon. Have you seen her? Okay, whoa. This is his wife, bro. Wait, wait, the wife's here. That means the sister's got to be here, too. Okay.

Have you seen his sister?

She just started an OF, too?

Yeah. Totally worth it.

I don't have. Bro, it's a joke. I don't need a wig. Stop. Hey, listen, all of you should follow suit. None of you should be playing the third, all right? Keep it going. You have zero chance of winning. Like none. Whatever. Wait a second. Are those happy dads? Where did you get those? You know what? Boys, listen, I think we can work something out. What do you guys say? You just try your best out there. By the end of the third, it'll be 9-8. What do you say? Yeah. We make it happen? Oh, beautiful. Hey, man, let's go. And they're down by eighth heading into the third. Hustle, interference, traffic. Dave Lowe has run into some serious penalty trouble here in the third. Why don't you FaceTime your mom in there? Here's a five on one opportunity. Scores. And the game is tied at eight. That's a dive. That's a strange penalty. The ref is calling it a dive. He seems to be getting into it now with the tads in the stands. A family photo.

Across the crease. Scores. Can you believe it?

What a comeback. Fbt, FBT, FBT, FBT. You take mushrooms while you're on SSRI? No, I didn't say I actively take mushrooms. I said I would much rather do mushrooms than to do pop. You weren't surprised.

You weren't surprised. That's a safe answer, though.

Then I'm not sure. I don't think the thing that I'm taking is an SSRI. It is an antidepressant, but it's something different.

You weren't surprised, your comment section when you uploaded it was just like, it's a lot of hate, some of the comments.

No, I got a lot of love, too. Can I read? I don't read one of these. Let me just say this. Opinions are like, everybody has one, and I never let that affect the work that I do. I was just surprised that people were The biggest response from the Elon's sick offense or lovers was just that, wow, you had the gall to ask the richest man in the world this, and you had the gall to someone who's going to make you a lot of money. That doesn't mean anything to me. What I'm doing is what I think is right and trying to get truth from someone and trying to get people to know who he is, know who I am, and to understand that people who have different worldviews can actually sit down and have a conversation. That was it.

I respect that.

This one comments like, Don Lemon reminds me of my girlfriend when she's in a bad mood and is trying to find something totally irrational to get mad at me about. It's pretty funny.

Stop.

You got to find some humor in some of this stuff, right?

I don't know if that was funny. I don't mind. I don't mind criticism, but I don't get the- Like that one girlfriend that's just trying to get something on you? Oh, you mean for the interview? Yeah. Okay, that's funny. But see, I I don't have a girlfriend. I have a husband. I don't have to deal with that.

Maybe it's just because I- Does he ever nag you sometimes, though? Trying to get info out of you? Do I what? Does he ever nag you to get information out of you?

No, he doesn't nag me to get information, but I mean, the- Sometimes you're like, Shut up. No, I don't have to do that. Maybe that's why I'm gay. I don't have to deal with that. Oh, shit. I mean, it's just like you're hanging out with your bro, but you're married.

Being gay is a lot of something.

I like that. That's dope.

You thought Except for the gay sex.

Except for that part. I don't know. He's a little questionable. Sometimes.

It's okay, bro.

In the K-hole, maybe.

So what? Is there ever any menning the relationship with Elon?

Yeah. Who knows? Maybe. I would talk to sit down and talk. I have nothing against Elon. I wasn't trying to get Elon. It's like you asking me these questions. I'm not going to get up and run away and get mad and say, How dare you to air that podcast. I did not sign a release. I agreed to come here and do it. So why are we getting mad at you? We all respect that. I just think it's being like a baby because I'm asking you about shit that you talked about.

Yeah. I think I think he just... I think he should have maybe kiss his ass a little bit and got the bag, personally.

But that's the thing. I'm surprised at that response. I've actually heard some people who claim to be journalists.

You could have been whipping in a cyber truck.

I can call in a cybertruck. First of all, I don't want a cyber truck. Why not? But did you ask for one? I'm not. Anyways, I answered that. I don't want a cyber truck. Why not? Because I'm not interested in a cyber truck. Oh, damn. What are you whipping right now?

What about the massages?

What am I whipping right now?

You got a Porsche taken. No, don't be modest. You got something nice at the crib.

100%. Do you want to know?

So I'll tell you what-Realistically, yeah.

And what have you bought?

What do I have? And then you'll understand why I don't. That was not an interest of mine. I have a Lincoln Continental with suicide doors. Fire. What the fuck?

Okay, yeah. What the fuck?

A 1973 Mercedes Benz 220. Gas, not diesel. Nice. I have a 1987 Ford What do you call it? Country Squire with wood panel sides. What else do I have?

You seem pretty into cars. Dude, the content of crazy.

I like old cars. Continental's crazy. Then I have a... Oh, and I have a 1969 Silver Silver Shadow Rolls. Wow. Yeah. And then I just sold last summer an '87 Defender.

Nice. You're good at tasting cars. Damn.

What have you bought for your man's? Anything?

Well, he gets to drive all his-Oh, he just gets to drive them?

Yeah.

But I mean... Yeah.

I know how it goes. I buy shit for my girl all the time. He's a good wife.

But I'm going to get rid of a lot of those cars. I just want two cars, and maybe I'll get an electric car. Maybe I'll get an electric car.

But not a Tesla.

I have nothing against Tesla. I've actually rented Teslas before, and they're nice cars to drive. They drive themselves. Yeah. So again, I know people think that I had this person. I was going to go into business with Elon Musk. Obviously, I did not have anything against him, and I wasn't out trying to needle him for things. I just think that he got a bit flustered about not being able to answer some of the questions, and he took it out personally on me. And It's always like, I'm going to cancel your contract, or I'm going to take my marbles and go home. Fine. You can do it.

It's a crazy concept, though, if you think about it, he owns the platform. And he's like, you would never want to put out a podcast where you don't like the way you look on your own platform.

I think that he would have gotten much more respect and much more cred if he just had taken it and said, this is what I want this platform to be. I truly do believe in free speech. And even if it's uncomfortable, and even if someone puts me in a position where I feel uncomfortable, this is what I want this platform to be.

I truly believe that. I agree with you. But I think if, let's say, it was me and you and I was Elon, and I'm giving you the opportunity, and I felt shaded like that, I'd be like, what the fuck, too? Like putting yourself in his shoes. Yeah.

No. No? No. Because people come on, and I have uncomfortable conversations. People challenge me. When I was at CNN, they challenged me, and that was, you're in my house. It's fine. You can challenge me. And now on my streaming show, the Don Lemon show on YouTube.

Can I challenge you real quick?

People challenge me all the time. Like, Bossum challenged me today.

Can I challenge you?

Yeah, challenge me. But people do it on my own platform, and I don't get mad and run and say, I'm not going to get off my show. Yeah. Okay.

So all over the Internet, you get people who like to say you have misogyny. You did make the Nikki Haley comments. You said you don't regret anything. What were you trying to I guess what I'm trying to say is, what did you mean exactly when you said she's out of her prime or women are out of their prime?

Did you actually see the whole thing?

No. So I want to hear what you said exactly.

So I'll tell you what I was trying to do, and that was take up for older people because I thought she was being ageist. And I thought that she was doing to older people what society has done to women for years, right? Discrimination. I also thought when she was saying that people should have to take a test in order to be able to run for officer to vote that it was like a poll tax, which we outlawed. And so I was saying, according to society, that a woman is out of her prime at a certain age, but a man as well. So I wasn't saying- Nothing to do with physical appearance. No, not at all. And I said, I don't necessarily believe that, but no one picks up on that. And again, it was me being analytical and not saying something that I personally believe. But I think that it touched a nerve for for women because women are discriminated against in our society. So that's how I felt about it. But the thing about it is that I know her. I don't know her well. She could have called me and said, Hey, Dawn, what were you trying to say?

But she immediately- Oh, she didn't talk? No, we didn't talk. But I've spoken to her before. I've interviewed her before, and I've run into her socially before. And she immediately went and raised money off of it. And I just thought it was just very hypocritical of her. If I knew someone and they said something that I thought was what's looked left at them like, Wait, what the fuck are you talking about? I would call them up and say, What did you mean by that? Before I went out and started slamming them.

Yeah. Do you hate that you have that reputation?

For what?

Like being misogynist?

I don't know if I have that reputation, but I'm definitely not a misogynist at all. The exact opposite, I read something, too, which I think we agree.

That's funny. I don't think there should be... When we talk about the NBA and WNBA, obviously, men, I agree, think should get paid more. I think women should also make more. But that's recently changing because Kaitlyn Clarke's an absolute beast. What do you think about... The head coach of South Carolina for the women's team said that she thinks that men, trans, should be able to play.

This is a trans conversation now we've gotten into. Yeah, he just wanted to. Do I just want to hear your thoughts on that because it's a wild thing to say. She said that trans.

Like trans women.

Should be allowed to play. It actually pisses me off because women just had the most successful year ever. They absolutely crushed it. Now she goes and makes a comment like that, which we had Michael Porter Jr. On recently, and he said, Dude, any guy could go in there and I'd have 75 a game.

Well, people might think that you're being misogynist by saying that.

No, I'm saying that.

What's your opinion on trans women?

I don't think that men should be able to transition and compete women's sports.

One, I think it's a small part of the population, and I'm surprised by the But it only takes one trans woman to get in there and push it up. I'm surprised by the interest in this. Do I think it's personally... Do I think it's I think that... How do I say this without sounding... Come on, though. You got this. I want to make sure that I say the right thing, because the only thing that I do regret about the conversation, the whole Nikki Haley thing, is that I'm a journalist and I should be more precise in my language. That's it. Not about anything I said or feeling or being a misogynist because I'm not.

That was too long. Do you think biological men should be able to play in women's sports?

I think that it should be studied, but I do think that- What are you stuck?

Physically, men- This is not fair.

Physically, men are stronger and faster than women. And so I have questions about it myself. Me, personally, it's not for me to decide, but I think there is an inherent advantage when someone who plays in a women's sport and perhaps they are stronger and faster.

Do you think it's... I think it's stupid that you even have to explain yourself in that careful of words on a subject like that.

Because of the question that he asked me before.

No, I'm defending you.

I'm saying, Don't you think it's crazy that we even have to talk about that?

How can we debate that biological men are playing in women's sports? I know it's a small percentage, but- You promise me I have a book that's coming out.

The real question is, why do you want to be afraid to say that?

I talk about a lot of these things, and you're going to be really surprised about how I actually feel about them. When's it coming? September. Okay. You have a title? It's called I Once Was Lost: My Search for God in America, where I talk about DEI, talk about trans women and trans men in sports. I talk about all of those things, and you might be surprised about my actual feelings on it. I do think that people have questions about it. As a member of the LGBTQ community, I have questions about trans issues, not just trans people in sports.

What's the Q? What's the difference between Q and the G?

Questioning. I think it's called questioning.

And then what's with the plus?

Are you all questioning? You guys just question him.

Well, he's questioning.

When are the math equations? When is the plus and minus? What's that? There's a plus.

I don't No, I guess. I think what they're trying to do is be inclusive to all communities. I always wondered, why do they group gay people and trans people?

I feel like it's too totally- Because trans people are not necessarily gay, right?

I think it's for people who are part of unreserved communities. Does that bother you?

I think the gay people are better spokesmen for the trans people because the trans people, they're not that good at defending their own issues. And it takes a gay person to come in and really defend them, logically.

Well, I think trans people are probably the most vulnerable.

That's what I mean. The gay people always have to come and stick up for them.

Going off what he's saying is I actually have heard from gay people that they're like, We don't want to be grouped together because it's not the same thing.

It's two totally separate issues. It's an issue in the gay community. It's an issue among the trans community. Some trans people believe that a lot of gay men are transphobic. I don't know that to be true. I don't have any scientific or non-scientific knowledge on that, but that is a discussion among people who are in the gay and LGBTQ community.

I know. I was always wondering that because I think it's just two separate things.

Look, I think the intention is good. The intention is to look out for people who are who maybe have issues, who are underserved in society, who are ostracized. And I think so it's trying to create an umbrella for all. We're discriminated. Like a safe haven for more people. So we want to bring people in and try to protect them. I think the intention is good, but I do think sometimes you need to reassess things to.

Do you think you can protect everyone?

Do I think you can protect everyone? Sure. I think you can protect everyone.

In what way? How do you mean that?

It just seems like we're always in this battle of Protect this person, protect that person. Don't protect this person more, protect that person more.

I feel like no one's safe.

Well, I mean, the LGBTQ plus, that's not a government organization. Right.

But our government, specifically now, is very much sides and does everything it can to to protect?

Well, I think you should protect people who people commit hate crimes against. I think that there should be protected classes of people in our society. I mean, there are people who discriminated against African-Americans. There are people who discriminate against women. There are people who discriminate against Muslim people. There are anti-Semites in the world. I think that people should be protected. There are certain groups that need protecting.

I think the main thing people have with the trans issue is that they're teaching it in schools.

Yeah. And the sports thing's crazy.

The sports thing's absolutely fucking insane.

I don't know if they're teaching it in schools, but I think they are.

I think there's some teachers that- I think there's some teachers that- You never heard of the furries?

No.

Wait, what are the furries?

They're telling kids that they could be furries. If the kids want to be raccoons, they're giving them litter boxes and stuff.

I don't know about that thing.

It's going on. Search it up.

In Seattle, apparently.

But I mean, I was told that I could be Superman growing up. I wore a Superman costume, and I ran around the house and thinking I could fly. True.

You were never able to fly?

No. I jumped off the roof with the garbage cans. Did you guys ever do that? I feel like I'm trying to fly. It doesn't work.

But they're teaching kids that they could be whatever gender they want.

I don't have enough knowledge to speak on that with- You didn't see the whole thing going on in Florida with what's going on in Florida?

Desantis just passed.

The whole don't say gay thing?

Yeah, but it was also the teaching of gender fluidity.

Like the books and all this stuff in school at the young age.

Look, I'm not a parent. And again, I don't have enough knowledge of that to speak on it with any clarity. But I don't think that's anything wrong with kids having knowledge. I think that my parents protected me from things that I knew about before they knew that I knew about them. Telling them they could be whatever gender they want. I would rather have- At a young age? Well, yeah.

You'd rather have that come from your parents.

We all had very similar things. Our parents did similar things. My parents told me I could be whatever I wanted when I grew up.

Yeah, but your parents telling you it's different than a teacher in a school.

My teacher told me I could be whatever I wanted when I grew up.

Career-wise, not gender-wise.

He said, Just in in life. We did not have gender discussions, but- Do you think that it should be happening at such a young age? I don't know. I'm not an educator, and so you'd have to ask someone who is an educator or someone who- No, I'm asking your opinion.

Do you think that kids should be taught that at such a young age, given that they're so- Well, no one can teach you to be trans.

Of course, but- No one can teach you to be gay. You either are, or no one can teach you to be straight. You just are.

But at a young age for children, in a sense where if we're saying this is acceptable, everyone wants to be accepted and be part of a community, right? So at a young age, if you're a kid and there's a group of kids, we're all like, Oh, I'm this, or I can be this, or they're learning who they are in the moment, in real-time. You're the most susceptible when you're young. So it's like, if you're given this information, your thoughts naturally go, Oh, that could be me. Just like you saw Superman, you're like, oh, I could be Superman. So now you're seeing this the book saying this and that and all these things where it's fine to be these things. But at this age, should we be showing that where it's like, yes, those things are fine to be. But what if you're susceptible to saying, okay, this is who I am now because I see these books and I'm just thinking this is who I am, even though I'm not really that yet.

Look, it would depend on the age, but I got to tell you this. I don't believe that I don't believe as a whole that kids are being indoctrinated to any certain thing. I went to Catholic school my entire life. They taught us that being gay was an abomination. I ended up being gay. So it's not like they were trying to force me to be gay. I ended up being the opposite thing of what they wanted me to be. I don't think that just by having awareness of something that it endoctrinates you and it causes you to be that.

That's fair. What's your response to that?

It's a fair answer.

But I was going back to what you said. This is not really on topic, but I don't think teachers do that enough. Telling kids they can be whatever they want to be. I think it actually schools doing the head. It makes you think you can't do that. But maybe that's just too personal.

That's not the That's not really personal.

You took them to a dark place.

A few of my teachers will say that. I understand. We can move on. You're so funny.

Do you like the social media life? Do you like the internet shit?

Yeah, I do. I love it because I can say whatever I want. Cool. I like being able to build an audience. I like creating a community and building a community. I like that there are no rules.

Wait, but it's crazy when you say you can say whatever you want. So before you couldn't say whatever you want, because earlier we were talking about you could- Yes, I could say whatever I want, and I did.

But the difference is that I'm responsible for myself now. Okay. So I feel like I have more of a freedom to say whatever I want, because if something happens, if someone gets mad at me, if an advertiser wants to pull something, it's me. When I worked in traditional media, I represented an entire company. I represented a brand. I represented 4,500 other people who worked for that company. And so it wasn't just me. So again, I was looking out for my fellow people, and so I didn't want to say anything that would cause them to harm. Also, I had to remember that we had people who were in very dangerous parts of the world, and I did not want to cause them harm and put their lives in danger.

How was that environment working? You said like 4,500 other people. It seems like it'd be pretty toxic working for a media network like that.

No, it was toxic. No? I thought it was a great experience.

So you enjoyed it?

Yeah.

Which would you choose? What do you prefer now?

I prefer what I'm doing now.

Yeah, it's way better on this side. You have all the freedom, dude.

Ask me in a year or two when I've grown my platform to millions of people, when I've finetuned it and perfected it, now it's just all experiment. I'm just trying things. And if it works, I do it. If it doesn't work, then I don't do it. If it doesn't work, I don't go, Oh, my God, that didn't work. I didn't get enough clicks or enough views. It doesn't really matter because that's how you learn.

Yeah, you learned, though. You're clip farming. That Kedamin question was a clip farming. Yeah, he got one.

What was your take on the It's all Daily Wire letting go of Candice Owens.

That was crazy, I think. Here's the thing. I will watch people who I don't necessarily agree with them politically and their worldview, if they're good performers, right? Yeah. If they're passionate. I hardly agree with anything that Ben Shapiro says, but he is passionate about what he does, and he's a great performer, and he's really smart. But I don't agree with whatever, a lot of what he says. Same thing about Elon. I didn't agree with most of what Elon puts out on Twitter, but I think he's consequential to the world. So I don't just watch people who I agree with. I know it's going to sound weird. I used to love watching Bill O'Reilly because I thought he was a great performer. I used to love watching Megan Kelly because I thought she was a great performer. I don't agree with hardly anything that they say.

Do you think Tucker is a good performer?

I think We had Tucker on here.

He's pretty good at performing.

He's great, dude. He said if he could get dinner with any news person, like any journalist, it would be you.

Yeah, I know. I think Tucker is a very bright person, very smart person.

I'm quoting him. He said the opposite about you.

He said you were the stupidest. Yeah, he calls me dumb. I know that. I'm just quoting him. I don't believe that. I'm aware, but I am not easily offended. I'm not easily triggered that way. So I'm not going to go, Tucker's talking about me. Tucker I think they were talking about me, and I would laugh about it. You call me Don LeMond, and I would just laugh about it. I didn't think it was personal. Anyway, a lot of stuff he says, I think is reprehensible. But is he a good performer? I think he's a decent performer, but I think he's also very smart, and I also think he knows his audience.

We bonded with him over sins. Do you ever pack bombs? Like sins?

No.

Like upper decades? Shut up.

No. I'm from Louisiana. They pack bombs. But I just don't like chew. Is it like ? No, I'm not.

Nicotine salt.

I'm not interested in that. What do I think about it? I think that Ben is He's really smart and has figured out his way what he's doing in digital media. But I think Candice is a bigger star. I think Candice is going to be okay, and she may end up on a bigger platform. It's probably a good thing for her that she's no longer on that platform because then she'll have to figure it out for herself. I think in figuring it out for herself, she's going to become bigger. Again, I don't agree with hardly anything she says. Every once in a while, I'll go, Candice, wow, hit the nail on the head. Sometimes she says shit that's really on point. Most of the time she says stuff, and I'm like, I don't know what she's talking about.

What's your biggest disagreement with her?

I don't know. I'd have to think about it. You'd have to give me specific examples. I don't. And it doesn't mean I would sit down and have a conversation with her. I would sit down and have a conversation with Tucker. I'm not afraid to have a conversation with anyone. Why don't these happen? But I'm not going to talk. I don't want to go into a space as I told. I spoke to you. Who does me to you? Me, me. Where people are just going to attack me just to attack me, where it's personal. I've seen some podcasters just attack me on personal things. Things aren't true. I'm not going to do that. It's not worth my time. That makes sense.

Who are we voting for this This is what I'm doing this year.

Who am I voting for this year? Who we all- This is something that I could not do when I worked at CNN. Who am I going to vote for? Joe Biden.

Why?

Because I think he's doing... Not I think he's doing, because he's doing a good job for the country. I love what he's done prescription drugs for people. I love that he is improving the economy. I love that we have- Is he improving the economy? Yes, he is. This economy is better than the Trump economy. I know that's tough to hear, but it's the truth.

Isn't inflation and gas prices through the roof?

Yeah, but the economy is still good. Look at the economy that he inherited from Donald Trump.

Donald Trump inherited- Well, because that was during COVID.

Well, okay, but still, that's the reality. It's a reality. Donald Trump inherited- Like you said, that was a That was a once in a life.

That's your words.

Okay. Donald Trump inherited an economy that was on fire, right? And then did not do well. Well, COVID, though. That was a thing. Covid was a big part of it, but still, that's a reality. And so But it's hard to believe. Joe Biden has taken a COVID economy, which was terrible by your own admission.

But he can't even stand up.

But it doesn't matter. We had a two- That matters. No, it doesn't matter. Let me tell you why.

Other world leaders see him and they think he's weak.

We had a president who was in a wheelchair.

Well, he should get in a wheelchair.

There are leaders in other countries who don't have the physical- He should just stop taking the stairs. Are you guys going to let me answer the question?

Sorry. Go ahead.

Get to the escalator.

Yeah. I think that you are, again, I think you're being ageist, which was what I was trying to defend old people from the whole Nikki Haley comment. I think that you're being ageist. I think that Joe Biden is a fine President. He's doing great things for the country. I really do. Is he perfect? No. Is he perfect on immigration? Can he improve? Yes. Was the Afghanistan pull out not good? Yes. Horrible. Messy. Yes. Horrible. But every President has good and bad moments. And so I think in this moment now, I would rather a President who believes in democracy and in the Constitution rather than someone who says, When I get in office, I'm going to go after my political enemies. I would prefer I would prefer a President who did not incite an insurrection. I would prefer a President who did not have 84 charges against him, who didn't have cases. But the Biden's had cases on them, and people just cover them up, like the Hunter Biden laptop. Hunter Biden is not the President. Hunter Biden has no influence on culture at all.

He's stuck blown to the White House. He got to have some influence.

There's stuff happening in China.

Look, Hunter Biden is an issue. He's obviously a troubled person.

I want to party with him. Don't get me wrong.

But he has no influence on culture. He has no influence on government. It's interesting for the news media and for the right wing to talk about. It's interesting. Palace intrigue, but it means nothing.

I just think we can't have a president that can't speak.

We can't.

Dawn, we can't.

But here's the thing. You can find instances of Donald Trump not Not being able to speak.

No, he's a great speaker.

Wait, can I tell you one thing?

I've talked to him in person.

He's a good speaker. I talked to him personally, I know. But he has his moments. I know him personally. I know Joe Biden personally. I prefer someone who's going to put good people around him and who's smart enough to do that. The man is doing a good job. He has arthritis in his spine, so he's a little trouble walking. Okay.

Still a good president. He's got arthritis in the brain, I think, too, or something.

Well, here's the other thing. I don't agree with that. With the power of social media, right? The only things you ever see on Joe Biden, only things. Him falling off the bike, falling up the stairs, and losing his thoughts. So to the average person- Are you on that side of Twitter? Do you see that, too? What I'm saying is social media is so powerful.

You guys need to go history. Go back in history and look at Jero Ford. Snl would do comedy sketches on Jero Ford falling over and tripping because he tripped a lot. He fell down. This is not the first time that this has happened.

No, but what I'm saying. That doesn't make it right.

Yeah, but it doesn't work. Would you rather someone who falls down or someone who is going to blow up the country?

How is Trump going to blow up the country? How is he going to blow up?

I don't mean literally blow up the country, but you know what I mean. Someone who tries to overturn elections. Come on, guys. Stop.

There's so much I can say about us. I think the Democrats denied when Trump won, too. I'm not a Democrat. I'm saying you are, but I'm saying they did the same thing. When Trump beat Clinton, they tried to say it was rigged. Hillary Clinton still says it.

When Trump beat Clinton, Hillary Clinton conceded and stepped off the stage.

She still says to this day that there was something Like with it.

But she didn't try to overturn the election. She didn't say the election was stolen.

I don't know about the rig situation, but I personally think Trump, as a leader in what's going on in the world right now, I feel like he's better to handle world leaders than Biden. And no other world leader respects Biden. I think Biden is going to bring us into war.

That's complete... You're wrong on that. What? I think every world leader respects Biden. Biden is a diplomat. Biden has been around, and he He knows diplomacy and foreign policy like nobody's business. The only person who's probably better on foreign policy than him or equal is Hillary Clinton.

But they're just such war mongers.

You don't think Republicans are warmongers?

Republicans Republicans historically have been, but not Trump.

Really? Yeah.

Old Republicans, like Bush era and all that.

Bolton and- Yeah.

I'm saying Trump. I'm not saying Republicans. I think Trump was a A peaceful President, was he not? He didn't start any wars. I'm being serious. Yeah. I'm being serious.

Well, yeah, but what wars we started?

I mean, we're funding Ukraine.

Okay. We're trying to help- We're not starting wars, though. We're trying to help a country- Pretty much, we're behind that war.

We're just not on the ground.

We're trying to help a country that was attacked.

But that is starting a war.

Can you imagine what would happen in the region if Ukraine's allies would allow them just to be taken down? Do you understand the instability that that would cause the world? It's the reason we have the foreign policy that we do with Israel is because imagine Israel not being there. Do you know the instability it would cause in that region? It's not just about funding a ward. Now, I have questions about where my money is going, but I understand why that money is going there.

There's a reason. Do you think historically, we've You think we've always been on the right side of these things?

Historically what?

Do you think historically, we've always been on the right side of these wars?

We've always been on the right side. Like the United States? Yeah. No. Look at Vietnam. No. Look at Iraq. No. No weapons of mass destruction.

You don't think these are the similar things that we're getting ourselves involved in? So it's just like the industrial arms and money and all the stuff that comes along with it.

We're not sending troops to Ukraine.

They're buying weapons. We're selling weapons. It's a massive thing. I mean, it's a money thing. That's why When I talk about all these things, even the COVID, it just seems like it's about money. And it's like, are we doing the right thing?

We live in a capitalist society.

For sure. Yeah, but at the expense of just life, right?

Yeah. But I mean, if you allowed Ukraine and Israel to go away, you would have a much different feeling. You would be saying, I can't believe that Joe Biden didn't save Ukraine and Israel because now look at what we're in. There's a whole World War III going on in the Middle East, and then Russia is taking over the rest of the world, and they're going to... You'd have a whole different feeling about it.

I guess it just feels weird sometimes when it's like we're constantly doing things outside of our country, when our country seems to be needing help in a lot of ways as well. And I know a lot of people feel that way, where it's like, why are we constantly getting involved in other things?

We're getting involved in other things because we're, and I agree with you, we need to take care of a lot of things at home. I agree with you with that. But we are the richest country in the world, and we are the biggest democracy. So people hold us to a higher standard, and we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Should we be doing more for people at home? Sure, probably. But can we afford to help other people? Yeah. And should we help other people in other countries, especially democracies? I guess.

It just doesn't seem like Biden can physically compete with other world leaders.

What do you want to do? I want to be able to speak properly.

If they had a box. He can't speak. The falling, we could deal with.

Okay.

He can't He can't even read off a teleprompter.

He's feeble for sure.

Okay. Fine. He reads the periods on the teleprompter and stuff.

I want you to go and look. I want you to watch a Trump teleprompter. I've watched a lot of Trump's speeches. He's not good.

He's amazing.

He doesn't read well.

You went to one in person, no? Yeah.

Yeah. He is a good... He's funny, and he stands in front of a crowd when he's on and he does this thing. Biden sniffs girls, too. But he can't read a teleprompter. He's not good at reading teleprompter.

I know you've seen the Biden That's what I'm sniffing.

Trump is good at stream of consciousness. Look, I'm doing this for you because if they do this to me, they can do it to you. And I'm the only thing between you and saving the world. And he's good at that. He's just talking about it. And the reason he's good at it is because he doesn't have to rely on facts. And he is not the President anymore. So people aren't looking to him. Joe Biden could say something that potentially could start a war. So you have to be careful with your words. And sometimes in order to do that, maybe speak a little slowly.

He also has- So you think he speaks good, Biden?

No, I didn't say- A little slowly. No. Biden has always spoken with the... God, what am I going to think? I just see. He doesn't. I can't remember. You pulled the Biden down. Yeah, I did pull the Biden. I haven't had much sleep.

You're good. You're an amazing speaker.

Yeah, but Biden has always had trouble speaking. Biden has always said things. He has a stutter. That's the word I'm looking for. It's not a stutter. He does. He has a stutter growing up. Every time. He taught himself to speak without stuttering. That is an issue. That is a fact. He has a stutter. He's always had a stutter. It's not a stutter, though.

It looks like he loses his thought a lot.

Yeah, I just lost my train of thought. Do you ever lose your train of thought?

I lost my train of thought. You're allowed to do it once in a while, though, but his brain just shuts down. You could see it shutting down.

I think you watch too many YouTube videos. No, I just see it all the time.

That's what I was saying is you only see those clips on social media.

There's so many instances. Everyone's allowed to get away with it once in a while.

Yeah, but I think you watch a lot of far right wing crazy stuff.

I don't. I actually don't. I don't watch criticism.

And you're on social media and you're looking at clips of him or people who are highlighting it. It's the same thing that people- It happens so much. It's the same thing that people, did you ever watch me on CNN? Yeah. You did. Okay. But most people who were critical of me who are I've never watched me. They've only watched Tucker talking about me or Hannity and clips that were taken out of context or snippets or things that are on social media. They had no idea of what I actually said or did on the network. So I feel like you're doing that a little bit with Biden. You are welcome to your opinion about him, but I don't think that he is in cognitive decline and that he's going to just keel over at any moment. I I just don't believe that. I mean, anybody can die at any moment. Anybody can have a heart attack, but so can Trump. So can RFK. True.

Would you be pretty upset if Trump won?

No. I would not be upset. I would be concerned. I would hope that because he pushed the levers of he pushed the limits of our democracy. And I think the first time was a little bit scary. We survived it. I think we Probably we would survive another. I believe that we would survive another Trump presidency, but I would be a bit nervous about what he would do in office, considering what he's actually saying. What would be your biggest- If you look at what Project 2025, have you studied Project 2025? No. Where what he says he wants to get rid of the Department of Justice, the FBI, and all kinds of things they want to make. They want to make illegal, all kinds of crazy things. He wants to be able to use the National Guard to solve things between American citizens. It's a little nutty.

Making gone illegal would be wild. They might need to do that. That might be the only solution.

We got to talk to Trump. We might have to have a chat.

Yeah. Why take that away from us? I mean, it's- No, it's messed my head up.

It's a folks who are behind him. I'm not sure how much he has to do with it, but- You think he's going to be an addict?

He's a former addict.

I'm reformed. Do you think poor?

You don't watch anymore?

I don't know at all. Do you think it's a net positive for society?

It should not be? I have no opinion on it.

Well, you just said that he was going to get rid of it, and it's like it was as if it was a bad thing.

I'm just saying that's one of the things- He knows what our audience is going to be pissed at, right?

He knows how to sway the right wing voters.

I'm just saying that's like... I mean, look, who was on the stand yesterday? A pop star.

You're talking about the trial stuff with Trump?

Yeah, Stormy Daniel. So you know, that's part of the culture. But I I have no opinion on it.

Have you and Trump ever went super head to head?

Yeah. I've interviewed him a number of times, but usually- What was the craziest time? He would say, it wasn't. If you go back and look at our interviews, they were tough, I think he took much tougher questions than Elon, and he still came back for interviews. But once he became the nominee, and we had to really question him on facts and things that he said he wouldn't come back on the network.

What's the craziest thing he ever said to you?

He said, on my show... On my show. About Megan Kelly, that she had blood coming out of her wherever. Oh, that's a legendary one. Yeah, that was on my show. And then he said about people coming across the border, robbing people. And I said, whatever it was, I refuted it. And I gave him the thing, and he goes, who's doing the rest, Don? Somebody's doing the rest. And And so we were like, what else did he say to me? He said, I'm the least racist person you ever want to meet. When I asked him point blank, was he racist? What else? There's a lot of stuff. The thing is, is that you can ask Donald Trump anything.

Yeah, he's more of an open book.

It's all in how you ask him. Yeah. All you have to do is compliment him and then ask him the question, and then he would answer.

I can't remember the %, but hasn't he gained a huge amount of support from the Black population? Recently?

No. I think he is gained. I think his support, I think it's among black men. I think his support has gone up, but not among black women. In general, in speaking in generalities. But who knows how much Just because someone says they like him doesn't mean that they're actually going to vote for him. Sure. Those are two different things.

What's your take on the border situation and his take on it?

It depends on what aspect you're asking.

Is it important to have the border?

Of course. Yeah. I think that we're in a place now where we really need to we need immigration reform. Our system can't handle the number of people who are coming across the border. We've got to figure that out. I don't know what the answer is. I don't think the answer is a physical wall. I think it has to do with legislation, and maybe it's more manpower, but yeah.

We heard crazy stuff from Dr. Phil, remember about just people coming in?

Wait, what was he saying?

I can't remember. Remember Dr. Phil was talking about how he spoke to a border agent who just they're told they just can't do certain things, even though they should be. Kids are just coming through and being used in traffic. Remember that at the end of the Dr. Phil pod?

I think it's-He said something like they write a number.

On the kids, yeah. They knowingly or they're sending them to places where they know they're going to be being trafficked. And it's like they're not allowed to technically stop it. I don't know how much you know about that situation.

No, I don't really know about that. This trafficking is not my thing. Obviously, there should be... It should not be this traffic. For me, my heart goes out to the kids because there are people who bring their kids across the border and go back because they want them to have a better life. I feel for anyone who is like, It's so fucked up over here. Go to America, the land of milk and honey, and have a good life. My heart goes out to the kids for that.

You haven't seen this guy on the internet recently? No. He caught a predator live on stream.

Oh, wait.

What the fuck?

I heard something about that.

What happened? You tell him.

Yeah, I was there, obviously.

My boy is viral right now.

Now, what's up, bro? So Vitali is a streamer who sets up these... It's not Chris Hanson type video, but it's where they're, I guess, baiting people who are sex offenders, who are, I guess, they're not registered yet, but they're people who have been contacting, interacting with underage kids or thinking that they are. And we just were randomly in LA somewhere downtown, and it just so happened to be some guy who was, I guess...

A screenwriter. He worked on multiple big movies. Something like that. He was a big Hollywood guy.

I didn't know anything of it except for you see the text interaction with the person that they believe to be of a certain age, 15 in this case is girl. Then you just pull up and you're like, What are you doing? Essentially, you're trying to call the police, but the police were like, Oh, we're...

Can't do much about it. I remember seeing something online similar to that, but it was a thing that said, This guy caught this kid, caught this man, Chris Hansen style or something. But it was on social media, like something that I was flipping through. Yeah, that was you?

Yeah. Apparently everyone's been talking. I didn't know that was so viral.

Isn't it a wild concept? They're live streaming it. This is what creators are doing now. It's a good thing.

There are some good things. The world's fine.

Welcome to the digital world. That's crazy.

You're on this side now. If you want to jump in the next stream, we could probably set that up.

Yeah. Wait, what are you streaming?

Catching the Predators.

Wait, do you guys have a Catching the Predators stream?

That's what he did. I did Vitali. He was the special guest. I was a guest. One of our friends who does this. He was like, You want to come do it? I was like, Yeah, I'll come do it. I'll show up. And that's what happened. It was just random. It wasn't like we specifically found the person, and the person just so happened to be someone who was, I guess, highly-Yeah, hook me up.

I'll do it.

Right.

That'd be cool.

That would be insane.

Damn. I'll go with you. Hey, Vital, you owe me for that one straight up. That'd be crazy.

You guys wouldn't be afraid to be with me? There are a lot of people-I knew with you. You were talking about the hate online. There are a lot of people in these spaces who don't like me.

I think people would really appreciate and respect it if you did it.

Why do you think people don't like you?

Because they don't know me. And they have an idea about me that is based on what my critics say about me. And they I saw the Elon interview.

Yeah, the Elon one was just-Because of the way he reacted, they think like I'm some ogre or mean person. I'm not.

Like I said, I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Republican either.

What are your actual thoughts on Elon as a person?

As I said, I think he's very consequential to the world. Super important. I think he's done some really good things for the world, but I don't think that he is beyond account. He should be held accountable for certain things. What do you think What are you doing wrong with X? Everyone has to answer to someone or to something.

What do you think he's doing wrong with X?

Or just in general, speaking of X.

I thought that I got off of Twitter because I thought it had become toxic. I think that Twitter now-Pre-Elon or post-Elon? Pre-elon. That's when you got off? Yeah, I got before him. And then I had someone do it for me because I just couldn't anymore. It becomes so toxic. And then once he did it, it just has become a cesspool for far-right conspiracy theories and racism and misogyny. And it's just I can't. But I thought that he truly wanted me to do what he said on the platform, but it turned out not to be so. So it is what it is. Apparently, he's happy with the platform being a far-right place.

So what do you think he should do better with it?

I think he should moderate the platform. Every platform that moderates It does well, does better. And I don't know how long. He has a lot of money, so I'm sure he could probably fund it for a while.

Because I think he said it not to make money, right? He wants to make it free speech.

Yeah, but also he owes. I don't know the particulars of the financials, so don't take this with a grain of salt. But at a certain point, creditors are going to come calling about their investment into Twitter or X. And so something's going to have to happen with that platform. And I think that it would be better And he'd have more people and more advertisers because I think it would be a real shame for the platform just to go away, right? Or just to become, which is what it's becoming, which is a niche platform for the right. I think it would be better if he moderated the platform. And that doesn't mean violating people's right to free speech, which honestly, it doesn't apply to Twitter because it's not a government institution.

But do you think that it seems like it's become this right wing thing because every other platform is so highly moderated? Yeah. That's why we're having this conversation about it is like, if we just moderate it like all the other ones have been moderated, then it's... Just like before we told you about the COVID era thing, we couldn't talk about anything. If it wasn't in line with what everyone thought.

We all know what happened to threats. But I think that those other platforms are doing well.

Yeah, but financially doing well in the difference of financially doing well in a frame of speech.

Metta is doing well because Metta is moderating conspiracy theorists and people who are there just to offend people and people who have, as I call internet brain or social media brain, where they think everything is a fight and everyone has to own someone. I'm going to own the libs. I'm going to I'm going to own this conservative. I'm going to talk shit about trans people. It doesn't have to be that. That's internet, right? For sure. Twitter always has. Twitter has always had that. So again, I told you it was toxic before. But at least they had advertisers. At least that it was financially, they were doing okay, not great. But other platforms are actually thriving financially for a reason because they have moderation.

I think Twitter is slowly becoming that platform that even us, we're creators, and X slowly, day by day, is becoming actually more enticing for us and our audience because they don't moderate stuff. And it's like when we're talking about COVID, It's like, who decides what you can and can't say, right?

I'm not talking about extremes, right? But I think if someone put something offensive depicting Jews as big nose, it's like, why does that need to be there. Why does that... It's like, freedom of speech. That is a poor excuse for- It's just like, where do you draw the line then, right? I think what he said was- I think you draw the line-at laws, what's legal. I think that that's a cop-out. I think you draw the line because you can- Where do you draw it? You can entice people to become mass shooters by being indoctrinated through social media. They admit that in their own manifestos. So I think that you can put together a group of people, or there could be a group of people at X who sit down and actually decide that. And I think that you can do that within reason. I don't... Either you're going to have the Wild Wild West, where you're not going to have No restrictions, or you're going to moderate it. And if you're going to have moderation, then you have to abide by your own content rules.

I think they moderate based on law, though.

No, you should go and read the content rules on Twitter. If you don't know where to find them, go on to a post that you don't necessarily like and try to report it. Then they'll give you all the reasons for what should not be on Twitter. And that's making fun of a protected group, blah, blah, blah, blah, have them when you're not going to abide by them. Just say, this is the Wild Wild West, and we are going to put everything up there except for stuff that's illegal.

So you wouldn't have a problem if they did that? Or you still wouldn't like it?

It would be transparent. I wouldn't like it, but at least it would be transparent. It wouldn't be hypocritical.

I like how they're making it. You can say whatever you want. I mean, I'm not reading hate speech shit and stuff like that, but from our point of view, too, it's like you can put out there and you can say some stuff that you can't say on other platforms.

I like I think it's doing really well. I like it as well being able to say whatever you want, but I don't want to. Oh, I got to go, guys. I have a five o'clock show. I'm sorry. It's okay. You're good.

Yeah. No, we appreciate you coming through. Much respect for coming through. Did we do okay or were we?

You guys are challenging, but I liked it. Yeah, cool. I'm not afraid of tough conversations.

Yeah. Well, thank you, man. Yeah, we appreciate you. Thank you for how many names or anything.

Thank you, guys.

Thank you, brother.