Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Garabordy Red podcast. I'm Max Hayes, your host, and today, joined by Talk Sport broadcaster and Forest fan, Max Scott, to discuss five things we think should be on the clubs to-do list this summer. As always, we really appreciate the support on the podcast for this summer so far as we create more forest-related content during the preseason. So if you do enjoy this type of content we are doing today, then give us a like, share, and subscribe. Follow us across Spotify and Apple Podcasts, all of that usual stuff. Join by Max. Max, good to see you again in this summer break, albeit just the opening stages of it. How are you? And have you relaxed after just a crazy season?

Yeah, mate. Good to be with you. Yeah, it's just nice, isn't it? It was a bit of a slow burner. We knew we were safe after the Chelsea game. Obviously, it was great to just get the win. For me, that win at Burnley was massive just for the fans, just for that one moment that we could have. Everything off the field sorted, I guess, apart from the city grand. But that feeling that the politics off the pitch is over, we're safe again and just being able to relax. And so in a weird way, it's nice not to think about Forest because as we've documented, I guess, all season, all of the things that have happened They take their toll a little bit because it means so much to us. So it's been nice for it not to really be in my head space. Yeah, it's been good.

Yeah, no, definitely mate. I agree. It's nice to just have a break, isn't it? Right. What we'll do is we'll do five things that we think should be on the clubs to-do list. And we've done a joint effort before we've come on and recorded this. So first things first, which you just discussed and leading nicely into there, Max, with secure the future of the city City Ground. That's our first thing for the club to do this summer. And I've also chipped in with a bit of a point of create that City Ground fortress and atmosphere again. That is a big thing, isn't it, Max? And especially with it still being up in the air about the City Ground, whether Forest will stay, whether we'll move to Toton, everything like that. That has to be a big, big priority for the club to sort this summer, do you think?

Yeah, absolutely. I've put my cards really clearly on the table on Talk Sport about how I feel about a potential move away from arguably the most iconic football ground in England, in the UK. Its location, it's importance to the soul of the football club, the fact that it is our football club. But I also fully understand that there are fans out there that think otherwise. And so whilst I disagree with it, that's fine. I just feel that the club really shot themselves in the foot in a time where they just got on over the PSR issue that had been put to bed in that our appeal wasn't successful. And then the club just rolling back on promises that they'd made, claims they'd made about having a 250-year lease. It turns out there's only 33 years left on it. And And then the lack of response to the council essentially offering the freehold for 10 million quid. I think it's been a real on goal. I think the communication on that has been woeful. I think it's a huge misunderstanding understanding of how important the city ground is to us as fans that have been born into this, not bought into the club.

And so I think the messaging around it seems that it's hopefully moving in the right direction. I think that the council But the new leader of the Council has done a really good job of coming out and saying, Look, we should talk about this. It shouldn't be argumentative, it shouldn't be hostile, and we should try to secure the future. I guess the question, though, lingers behind, Max, is, well, if If both parties aren't interested, the council clearly are, if both parties aren't interested, then there's only one way that this is going to go. But I think that the club's hierarchy, whether that's Evangelos Maranakis and Tom Cartlage, would be hard-pressed to do this. With that significant backlash from the fans. And so I just sincerely hope that over this summer, things get sorted and there's clarity. And there's that certainty for fans that it's going to happen. The new plans for the city ground, Max, look incredible. Making it The largest stadium in the East Midlands, the plans for the surrounding area, what that can do for the local economy. I'm so excited by those plans, and I just want to see them come to fruition.

And I don't see how economically in the short to medium term, splash in a load of cash in a place that's closer to Derby outside the city center. I can't see how that makes economic sense, particularly when Forest's place in the Premier League is never going to be guaranteed for a long time. That process of establishing yourself, it takes a long time. And Having, let's say we have some successful season. We've got Conference League in a couple of years. It's not guaranteed that we don't drop down. And so I just want to see that get sorted. I want the sense to be made and fans to be listened to, because whilst there are some fans that think it would be a good idea, the vast majority of fans that I speak to, that I read about online, it's just a no go. And so I think that needs to be sorted so that all of the things off the pitch that have caused us so much stress, so much football anxiety, can just put to bed and we can focus on what's going on on the pitch.

Yeah, for sure. Wise words. Totally agree. And just to throw in a point as well, I was thinking about this the other day, going to the city around all of this season. Do Forest really need to build a massive Super Bowl stadium already that's going to hold 60,000, 70,000? Probably not. Yes, we could fill it and we've got a great fan base to do that. However, why not just redo the main stand and leave everywhere else alone and fill the corners? And that was the original plans to make it around the 40,000 mark. Well, let's do that and we can get the planning permission still. But it just seems like because the ambitions are to the very top, which you can't blame the ownership for once in, it just seems like the talk of Toton and everywhere else keeps coming about. And Tom Cartlidge appeared on a Forest podcast as well last week. He's talking there about Marenackus' plans of moving into a big stadium and it to help the football club commercially in terms of revenue, which is a bit of a... I suppose it's one of those, isn't it, Max, really? It's almost got the flip of the coin to it.

It could go either way because do you want to... You look at West Ham, for example, when they moved and the atmosphere there isn't great. Their fans criticized that massively compared to obviously Upton Park. And then that could be a similar situation at Forest. We could move almost for the benefit financially for the club.

At what cost? Yeah, the cost of the soul of the football club. And not every fan will feel the same way. For me, the city ground is Nottingham Forest. It's not just our ground, it's who we are. And so it would feel like supporting a different football club for me. And I know that might be seen as a strong view, but I'm sure that's shared by tens of thousands of Forest fans. And so ambition is great. The only ambition is fantastic, but at what cost? And there can be ambition, but that ambition can become folly, and it can be to the detriment of all the things that are more important than ambition. This is our home. This is who we are. Don't want to move. And that's how I feel about it. So we'll see how it goes. But hopefully, common sense will prevail.

Yes, hopefully it will do. Right. Second thing on the to-do list, replace what we sell while staying in the PSR rules. Again, it's been circulated in the media that Forrest will have to sell basically to fall under the deadline with June and July and all of that. But it is one of those interesting ones, isn't it, Max? Because you're going to lose... Forrest are likely to lose a big player this summer or maybe two smaller players in terms of no disrespect to them, but maybe the likes of Hudson Adoyan and Alanga, let's say Hudson, Adoyan, Tywer, rather than Marillo or Morgan Gibbs-White. So it's a really interesting point, this. And ultimately, if Forest do sell, we've got to stay in the PSR rules and we've got to go and get someone that can replace whoever's been sold. Because if you look at a player like Morgan Gibbs-White or Marillo, we know how crucial they are. And if they leave Forest, then it almost destroys just the whole team, really.

I think there's so many different thoughts swirling around my head about this. And the first thing that comes to mind is, I think it yet again reveals the archaic nature of the Premier League's financial rules, because Forest are going to be forced to sell before the deadline and therefore not able to sell at a price that the highest possible price, because buying clubs will know that we are under pressure, and therefore they'll be able to get a cheaper price. And so that is where, like in the previous PSR rules, although we broke them, the way that the windows are lined up, the deadlines for putting in your financial books, it should just line up with deadline day. So that then clubs like Forest who don't have the resources of a city or the resources of Liverpool or whatever, one of the top six clubs, so that it doesn't It feels like it punishes clubs that are ambitious, the ambition we've spoken about, that want to climb the pyramid, that want to climb the Premier League. So that comes to mind. The second thing is, I'm certainly not justifying this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were people at the club that were in their mind to think, well, actually, we'll take another four points and we'll build on what we've got.

I doubt they will do that. I don't think that they're so unwise, but they're almost like a punter's argument to say, sod it. We're not yet again going to sell at a price that we don't feel is appropriate, which is what they didn't do with Brennan Johnson, but they got punished for it. So there's that. But of course, in the end, we are going to have to probably say goodbye to a significant player. I think the two most significant players that we've got are Morgan, Gibbs, White, and Murillo. And I think we've got to make sure that if we do sell them, that we replace it as much as you can for life or with talent that's able to grow into someone like Gibbs, White or Murillo. So really interesting times. But again, any club like Forest, regardless of whether we'd gone into PSR breaches or not, Max, we were always going to be a selling club. And I think whilst they spent wildly scattergun, they did. They have brought in some really good players. The list goes on. Gibbs White, Murillo, Ilanga, Taewo, with regard despite his injuries, Ola Aina. There's been some really shrewd business, Danilo.

And so I do feel quite confident in Forest's ability to find the right people to replace them. But I just hope that, obviously, we need to do without putting ourselves in that situation again.

Who would you rather sell, Max? Murillo or Morgan Gibbs-White? I'd probably say Murillo. I think Forest build round Morgan Gibbs-White. I think he's the heart and the soul of the team. I'd have to say Murillo, I think. And I think Forest would likely get probably more money from Murillo.

I think he'd get more from Murillo. And also, and this isn't... I'm not putting all the responsibility on Murillo, despite the fact that he's wowed us, despite the fact he's become an adopted son in Nottingham, we still conceded far too many set pieces with him in the lineup. I love the fact, by the way, as a side point, he played with so many niggles, that guy, and he's so tough. And so I love the fact that it's just consistency because we've had so many injuries back there. But I think if I had to choose, I'd tell him, really, I do think you'd get more for him. I think he is Real Madrid, Barcelona written all over him. And people at the start of the season, my non-Florish mates, when I said that, laughed at me. And they won't be laughing because I think I'd go as far as he's a generational talent, which feels bizarre because he played for Forest. We're used to Rafeet Jibril or whatever. I'm just dreaming, Max, but imagine if we managed to keep hold of them both. And like you say, we're shrewd with our business around Taewo, whose stock certainly has gone up playing for Forest, other than his injuries.

If we can try and wangle a good price for him, for someone that's maybe willing to pay over the odds for a striker. Callumudson and Adoy finished this season really well, so his stock's risen. I think I'd prefer that, obviously, but I think it's likely one of them are going to go. When you look at Morgan Gibbs-White, I know he loves the club, and I'm not suggesting I have any insight into his decision making. But I would think that Morgan Gibbs-White, having looked at Adam Wharton get a call up from having played in a Championship earlier in the season, I'm not criticizing Adam Watson, but I bet Morgan Gibbs-White looks at that and think, Come on, Gareth. And maybe he's thinking, I need to be a club that's slightly further up the league in order to progress my England career because he's no doubt got the talent to be in and around that squad.

Yeah, for sure. I thought I was going to say, Max, with the general election coming up, I thought you were going to do that. A mad British politician when he went, I thought you were laughing at me, but you're not laughing now. I'm not about Murillo. I was going to say, Max, actually asking to sell Murillo or Morgan Gibbs-White is asking me to get rid of you or Dave leave off the podcast. Two very good regulars, which one to get rid of. Dave, I reckon, mate. I reckon we get more money for him. He talks too much. Right. Third point, which was what I've put on the list. Don't hire a referee analyst, forward-slash, a silly club role for no reason. I think there's not much else to say, really, is there, Max? Apart from the Mark, Mark Watterberg was forced to resign, given that he was almost bringing the club down and himself down in terms of the media criticism, which you could argue maybe wasn't justified at times and was over the top from the likes of Gary Neville and people like that in the mainstream media. However, it just brought unnecessary attention to Forest.

It was a disastrous appointment from start finish. And Forest really don't want to get dragged into that mess again next season.

No, but like any appointment at the club, it's a reflection of the attitude right at the very top. I said from the very beginning, hiring Mark Clattenberg was antagonistic Getting someone that had left the PGMOL who'd left criticizing all of his colleagues to come and build relationships with the PGMOL and somehow try to explain to players as if they, on the pitch, don't understand how decisions are made. I mean, I thought But as you say, from start to finish, it was an absolute disaster. And so whilst I fully am on board not making such appointments or not bringing such drama, I do think that that is the way of the club. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly been entertaining in a way, particularly for neutrals, I imagine, some of the things that have happened, whether it's suggesting this corruption at the heart of the PGMOL, whether it's constant letters complaining, understandably, some awful decisions that Forrest were on the receiving end of or point of Mark Clattenberg. I mean, just incredibly bizarre times that I think we've become desensitized by, but aren't actually, I think, indicators of a football club being run at their very best.

From top to bottom, that consistency and real thought through thinking, we see it in the amount of transfers we've made. And so I would like that to happen. I don't think that they'll go down that route again purely because of how it ended. It just wasn't the way, I don't think, the fit in of a club, some of the things that were said and things like that. So we will see.

I think it just massively overshadows on the pitch stuff. When you look at a manager like Nuno, he must have thought, What on earth have I got myself in for when all of the Kletternberg stuff happened? And then I know it wasn't necessarily Forest. I'm not saying that there were maybe even wrong to put that tweet at given the amount of bad decisions we've had. But you just must feel for Nuno at times.

Yeah, and he's a big boy. He can deal with it. I quite like... He's obviously very different communicator, very different person to Steve Cooper, who I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to not compare the two because Steve Cooper is the greatest manager since Brian Clough, in my opinion, and has done incredible things for the club. But I really respect Nuna for the way he's come out. He's been very authentic to himself. I liked the fight and talk from him, but he can deal with that. We don't need Mark Clander coming out into the media. Stick to gladiators or stick to whatever roles you've had in wherever, but not at my club for me. And so I think if Nuno is the man to stay, and we're not actually talking about Nuno, maybe we'll talk about it another time, but I think I hope he stays and build with him. But he can deal with all that stuff. He's experienced enough to deal with that.

Yeah, you'd hope so. And you'd hope that given a few weeks now that Nuno will stay and hopefully will. But it's never a door week for Forest. We could wake up tomorrow and be jumping on an emergency podcast. You just don't know. Right. Moving on to the next one, which is talking to roles. New set piece coach and spend all summer practicing set pieces ready for next season. Such a big thing, Max. And people may laugh at us for actually putting this on a to-do list for the club, but it's got to be at the top of the priorities for Nuno or whatever manager was in through the door because Forest were the worst team in terms of conceding set pieces and the worst team attacking set pieces in the Premier League last season. Not a good record at all.

Yeah, it's going to be vital. I read the comments from Danilo and really it's great that he's coming out and talking about wanting to build with Forest. He's on a long term contract. Obviously, that is very much the message from the top to the bottom of the club that we want to develop, that we're ambitious and we don't want to keep having these relegation battles. Well, of course, if you're going to do that, don't concede 20 odd set pieces. So I think that certainly people from a coaching perspective are going to be looking at that and thinking we need to get that right, whether it's hiring a new set piece coach, we all know how the last one went, or whether that's just Nuno's team bedding in rather than fighting fires and dealing with the anxiety of points deductions and the pressure that that puts on players. Nuno spoke about that at the end of the season, didn't he? We need to sort that out. And so look, I'm certainly no tactical expert, don't have any coaching badges, but I think you're absolutely right. That needs to be a priority on the pitch because the amount of points we lost from winning positions from set pieces would have been clear by February.

Well, maybe something like that, might be exaggerated. Our season would have been so much simpler, wouldn't it? If we just got that sorted.

Yeah, no, for sure. It's a big, big issue that Forest needs to sort. Just staying on Nuno actually a little bit, Max, you think that Forest should build with him? You think he is the right person to take the club forward next season?

I do. Yeah, I think looking at the hand he was dealt, And he managed to keep us up. It wasn't vintage, well, hardly ever, really, was it? Bara, maybe a great win against United and a couple of other decent results. But for me, it's becoming a vintage, it's becoming out of fashion. But I just think stability and consistency are vital for a club in Forest position for any club. It takes time to build. I mean, the examples of any success in the Premier League are there with managers that have been in the job. And I don't think that Nuno is incredibly poor manager. I don't think that he's been given enough time or been in a circumstance where he could really flourish. He's got a track record at Wolves, a club in a similar position to where Forest are, a building and getting them into European football. And if you were willing to sack Steve Cooper in order to get him, then stick by your guns. I don't see anybody out there that screams Forest, of course, these mad rumors about, or immediate links with Pochettino or Roberto Di Zerbi, but I just think unless someone like Pochettino, no chance.

I mean, come on. Roberto De Zerbi, 99 % no chance because he is regarded as one of the great upcoming young European managers. And I think because of time, he's been unlucky not to go to someone like Bayern, and then Chelsea and maybe United. He's been linked to that job. So that's highly unlikely. If that were to happen, someone like De Zerbi, of course, you'd probably think, Yeah, fair play. But that isn't going to happen. Clip it in case it does. But I just think, stick with him. Forests need consistency. It's not necessarily the way that the club has been run in the past, but I think that it's incredibly important and you've got to build from that. He's developed relationships with players. He's been through a really tough time. Let him come out the other end. Get your scouts who've done some really good work recently to continue doing that. Give him the players that he can work with. If we're tapping into that Portuguese-Brazilian market, that's great because Nuno speaks the language. And so I just think, stick with it. So, yeah, that's what I think. What do you think, Max?

I think, stick with him as well. I was more tempted to change a couple of weeks ago, but slept on it thoughts as, as you said, who else is out there that's realistically going to come? Some mad shouts for Mourinho, but I'd be baffled if that happened.

Tell you what, I'd be more surprised if it was deserving or Pochettino who have a long time left in their career. And I'm not undermining anything that Mourinho has done, but I do think he's a bit of an old dog with no new tricks. And I say that respectfully. He's not really managed to do much with Roma the past couple of other than or since that European Europa League that they won, I think it was. And I wouldn't be surprised if he saw the money and the dollar signs that we're lucky enough that Maranakis can offer and would think, so did it. So that would surprise me less, actually. But I still don't think that's going to happen. So, yeah, stick with Nuno for me.

Maranakis and Mourinho, what a pair that would be. Crikey, yeah.

I tell you what, it'd either last five minutes or five years, wouldn't it? But that would be fascinating. What a duo.

Yeah, get a documentary made for Netflix. Right. Our fifth and final point, which I like, and it came from you, Max, and I think a lot of Forest fans have been about it, especially after Leeds is, I was about to say, unfortunate result. But given that I live with a Leeds fan and he's my best mate, and all the season he's been saying to me, Forest will go down and Leeds will go up. ' That was nice to see him today after being away, and I gave him a nice smile. So Forest to go on a Leeds raid, shall we say, Max, is your final point. They owe £190 million in unpaid transfer fees. There's lots that they've got to do to almost stay in financial So should Forrest look at Somerville, Ruta, at gray, and even Patrick Bamford? Who knows? But that's an interesting point, Max. I think a lot of clubs will be looking at Leeds to almost raid. But Forest can be one of those clubs, and especially for a player like Somerville or even Willy Nonto. Brilliant, brilliant players.

Absolutely. They've got Premier League experience. It's not a hill I'm necessarily going to die on. I just think it's a really interesting situation. I've been covering Radrazani, the previously donor, essentially handed Jesse Marsh, the club's credit card, to at all costs stay up, and it didn't happen. And they owe a significant amount of money. They've got players on big wages like Jack Harrison due to return from loan moves, I think, or it might not be Harrison, but other players. And so I feel like there's a lot of talent in that Leeds squad. Say what you want about them. Interestingly, I actually wanted Leeds to go up. I I think they're a bigger club than Southampton, and I want to be in a Premier League where there is bigger clubs and games against Leeds at Elland Road at the City Ground are great occasions, and I prefer that to Southampton, personally. Fair play to Southampton and Russell Martin. I think they've done an incredible job, and Leeds followed it at the end, but I think there are so many players in there. And I know that, of course, some fans would be critical of me. I think Patrick Bamford would be a really shrewd signing.

He's from the academy, he's a Forest fan, he's from Nottingham, and he's got experience. And And I think that he could really add value to that dressing room. When you look at someone like Chris Wood and the impact he's had, I think Patrick would be fantastic in that. And I think that you could probably get him for a decent price. But then, of course, players like Nonto Summerville would be fantastic replacements for someone like Callum Hudson or Doy, who top them sniffing around at. And so I think that there might be some shrewd business to be had, as we are going to be forced potentially to sell players for prices that we don't want Leeds are certainly in that situation. They're in a far worse situation. And there's argument to say they're going to be completely rebuilding. You got someone like Archie gray, who's a fantastic talent from their academy. There'll be lots of Premier League clubs sniffing around. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed because he's one of their own. But I think there are so many players in that squad that you could look at and think we could pinch them and they could contribute to the squad.

They could potentially start and get them for a decent price. Of course, there are other players around. I just think the situation at Leeds is an interesting one. A bit of a fire-sail potentially with lots of players leaving.

Yeah, definitely. We're doing some more episodes in the next few weeks, actually, about transferred targets as it all starts with rumors and everything like that. I do think we need a striker, Max. I think we need another striker. Taewo, love him, but it's just very injury prone, as we all know. Chris Wood can have his cold spells, shall we say. We need, especially with Origi now gone for sure, we need players, we need a striker. We need strikers that score goals ultimately because that will win Forest games.

I'd say the thing about Chris Wood is, I think no Forest fan can turn their nose up at him anymore. He's won our respect. His goals have been instrumental in the same way that Tywo was was last year. I know for a fact that He's very well respected in the dressing room and seen as a really important part of a core leadership team, and I don't want him to go. Whilst he might not necessarily be going into the season, Nuno's number one idea for a striker, with the support behind him, he'll no doubt come up with some important goals next season. Yes, he's towards the latter part of his career. I'm not saying he's by any means like dead weight. I want to see him still in and around, and he'll start some games, and he might be a squad player for most of them. But yeah, I think cashing on tie where probably it would be a shrewd move and get someone in who you know is going to score you goals. So yeah, there's lots of interesting things to be add. I'm sure that the right people at Forest are thinking the right things and got their eyes on people.

I've seen us linked to some, Brazilian fella and let's trust the business Forest have done recently, not the 40, 39 times, whatever we made initially. But recently, I think we've been really shrewd. We spent the Brennan Johnson money well. Look at Oler Aina, what a player. And so I just hope that those people at the club can do the right things and that Maranake is back, which I'm sure he will. And we'll go from there. But I think there's lots of interesting transfers to be had this summer.

Definitely. And interesting to see George Sirios back at the club as almost like an advisory role to the board. He was in the board area for the Forest Burnley game, actually. So he seems to be advising Marenackus, and he's often seen with Marenackus' son, Miltiardus, who we know has a huge role to play at Forest as well these days. I think that does us nicely for our five on the to-do list in the summer. Anything to close from you, Max? Any thoughts on Forest this summer or just anything to close?

Don't leave the city ground. Never do it. That's my message, or that's what I want. My desire is that we're always there. So I think get it sorted quickly because I think they've underestimated how significant it is to fans. And we are the soul of the club. We were born into it and we deserve deserve to have our say.

Yeah, I 100 % agree, mate. Very good point there. And we'll see what happens. We'll keep you updated throughout this summer and with more Forest-related content. But if you did enjoy this episode, give us a like, share, and subscribe on YouTube, Max. Thanks for your time. As always, keep flying the flag for Forest on Talksport. Excellent job, mate. And we will see you all very soon in the summer from me and Max. Come on, you reds.