Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Garabaldi Red podcast, a Nottingham Forest podcast. Nice to be back after a few days, and of course, the international break, which apart from Morgan making his England cameo, it's all a bit boring, isn't it? Not watching Forest. But we are back and we're back with a bang, aren't we? And a big game away at Anfield as Forest looks to continue their unbeat and start in the Premier League. They travel to Anfield tomorrow as we record this on a Friday, three o'clock kickoff. I'm delighted to be going, actually. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. Really looking forward to be in that away end. And someone that is over the pond for us to discuss lots about Forest and during international break and what he thinks and whether he's going to shed optimism that Forest is going to go to Anfield and win is the one and only Mark Turner. Mark, good to see you again, mate. I'm feeling a little worse for where are you this morning.

We just got done saying we were going to talk about that. Yeah, keep your voice down. That's all I ask. Keep your voice down. I'm properly in the away end over here, aren't I? I'm all the way over in America, 5,000 miles away. Yeah, good to see you, mate. Thanks again for having me on the show. I appreciate it. I'm already going to be a little contrary, though. I actually enjoyed the international break. I'm not enjoying how frequently they're going to be coming around now because of the new competition format and whatnot. But this was a good one. Obviously, Mainkind, Morgan getting a run out. It was good seeing them get two wins. It was interesting to see Lee Carsley at the Hound. But of course, the highlight of the entire international break was Sam Moreno finally securing their first ever competitive victory. I don't know if anyone saw the footage of that, saw the goal, which was as terrible as you'd imagine it to be. But then the subsequent celebration, which was absolutely joyous. If you've not seen it, get on the YouTube, check it out. It'll brighten your day.

Do you know what? San Marino fans must feel like, must feel like Derby fans at time and vice versa. When Derby finally play Forest again and beat them, that's how it will be like it was with San Marino. Yeah, I agree, Mark. It was nice to see that. And an interesting one, actually, about Carsley. Obviously, we are a forest podcast, but there's been lots of talk, isn't there? And I've done a bit of stuff on it. And I think some of the criticism already He was really, Well, how can you judge him on only these games or these easy games? Well, he's got off to a good start. I think we've played better football. Yes, they're against two worst teams than what we've probably came up against in the Euros and major competitions. However, I thought he's done a good start. So, yeah, I actually think we should give it Cazly. I would have given it Steve Cooper, but he wasn't available. So there you go. Right. Anyway, let's quickly talk, Chetly, just before we get onto the game and who we fear, everybody and and everything like that. Let's talk a little bit about Morgan.

I've done a few podcasts since he had his first appearance for England, but just such a big moment, isn't it, for the clubmark? First player to do it since 1997. Stuart Piers, we keep banging on about it. But I thought when he came on, there was that brilliant video, actually, and ITV put a nice clip on social media of it with that brilliant pass. I just thought he looked like he fitted in, right? He didn't look like a player that was making in his debut. He didn't look nervous. And hopefully we see more of him in an England shirt.

Yeah, regardless what your opinion is on Cazly, whether you think Cazly is going to get the job, ultimately, him being at the Hound when Morgan had his debut, and of course, the two things are inextricably interlinked, I think really helped Morgan. And yeah, I think you're right. You went out there and played like the Morgan we see at the city ground. Lots of flair, fearless, the occasional fantastic pass for the outside of the foot. Yeah, I think he did well. My concern is the talent in that part of the field right now. I think it might be the best we've ever had in my lifetime. And I lived through Gerhardt, Skolls and Lampard. But if you look at the depth in those positions, particularly now as evidently Jack Grealish is a number 10, it makes it that much more challenging. So hopefully we see Morgan in an English shirt a little more. He gets a few more caps. I think he acquitted himself very well on his debut.

Yeah, good stuff. Right. Let's move on to Liverpool. Another big forest, Faithful, will be going away tomorrow I suppose we do talk about a lot and maybe the novelty wears off after a few seasons in the Premier League. But certainly for me, as someone that's followed the club since, as long as I can remember, since what? Seven, eight years old and seeing the club play. I can remember going to Wiggan away on a Tuesday night in the FA Cup and then Wiggan away in the league on Saturday. And Forest lost both of those games. So for us to be playing Liverpool away from home, it's a great thing for the club and it does have that special feeling about it playing a big team like that. How can you see the game going, Mark? It isn't easy. We'll touch on the quality that they've got. But Forest have got something about them at the minute. We're under Nuno, we're confident, we're feeling good, we're unbeaten. They've got some big games coming up, including Champions League action. So they've got to probably make a few changes in terms of where Arnaud Slott's focus is on. But in terms of Forest, we can maybe go out and cause an upset or is that me being very, very optimistic?

Well, first off, have you been to Anfield before?

Yeah, I've been once before. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So I think I'm well on record of saying, I do not care for Liverpool. They're right up there with Derby for me. But there's no getting away from the fact that Anfield is it.

I guess that's the difference in age brackets, Mark, maybe for me, because I didn't really see that Liverpool vibe. A lot of people talk about it to me, but you didn't really see it back in the day.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yes, they were just very arrogant back in the day. Instead to knock them off their perch was fantastic. And we did it frequently as I was coming up. But there's no getting away from the fact that Anfield is a very special place, particularly when when it's energized, which hopefully it won't be this weekend. Hopefully it'll be flat. And that'll be because Forrest rock up and do the business. And I think I don't think your optimism is misplaced, Max. I think everything you said holds water. And I think there's the potential for Forrest to deliver a shock. I just don't see it happening. I think the likelihood is, you mentioned that we're unbeaten so far. We are, of course, as our Liverpool, not only are they unbeaten, but it's nothing but Ws down the path so far. I think they haven't conceded a goal yet, right? Yeah, I haven't. They're looking very robust at the back. They're looking very threatening up top. And I think the thing that concerns me most about Liverpool, and we have this to some degree, but it's not to the same level, is that they have a wide variety of ways to score.

And so who do you defend? Who's the focus point? Where do you put your time? If you're doubling up on somebody, who do you pick? It's very challenging. And they just We have incredible quality throughout. So is there a possibility for a forest upset? Absolutely. Do I personally think it's going to happen? Unfortunately, I don't.

That's where we disagree. I've got a feeling. I've honestly got a feeling. Right. Let's- You're breaking to soul, no? Yeah.

Well, we're due to win. I'm looking at the results since we got back into the Premier League. We had a couple of, obviously, very close games. I mean, they were one goal games down the line, with the exception of the 3-0 aberration, of course.

With Matt Turne. I can remember that.

Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. You said Matt, listeners and viewers, not Mark. I just balls it up every podcast. But yeah, that was a good match where Turner didn't cover himself in glory, that's for sure. But every other game has been a one goal game. I could see something similar this weekend. And to your point, I think Forest has that potential to have that one goal swing go in their favor. I just think the likelihood is it goes the other way, especially at Anfield.

Yeah, we shall see. Right. Earlier this week, I caught up with Steve from the Red Men TV who gave us a opposition view and what life is like on a slot. Steve from the Red Men TV. Good to see you as always, mate. Another big game in the Premier League this weekend, Forest Travel to Anfield. I mean, from a Forest fans point of view, always nice to make those trips compared to the Blackburns and Blackpoo we used to do a few seasons ago. I mean, just first of all, how do you assess the season so far for Liverpool, obviously early days, and also the summer as a whole? Because it must be a bit of an odd feeling around the club when probably one of your best ever managers in Jürgen Klopp leaves, and then you get a new man under Arnei Slott. But things seem to be going quite well so far.

Absolutely. Like you say, so far, so good. It was an interesting summer. It was one that we were prepared for because obviously Jürgen made his announcement so far in advance. It wasn't a huge shock. We all knew it was coming. So after he got his send off, obviously, Liverpool didn't end the season quite where they wanted to. We had a very good season, but it looked like it was going to be a great season and it ends up being a very good season. So there was a little bit of, obviously, a bit of down heart, a bit downbeat, however you want to say it. Obviously, Arnaud Slott, we didn't know too much about him. He was announced as the man the day after Jürgen left, really. So again, there was no real drama, no great surprise, no managerial Real hunt to speak of. We knew from day one who the new man was going to be. And as for this start, mate, it's been pretty much perfect, really. I was there in America on the preseason tournament to all the games. Lippul with a lot of players out for obvious reasons, Euros and Copper America.

They won every game in preseason. And then they started the Premier League season, three from three, haven't conceded the goal. So we couldn't have asked for much more, really. For a new manager to come in, he has changed quite... The players haven't changed, but he's changed. I know he said he hasn't changed too much, but I think he has. It looks like there's a complete different way Liverpool play. With all due respect, we would expect to be tipped away and we'd expect to be Brentford at home. I think it doesn't matter who the manager is, really. We would expect to win those games. But to go to Old Trafford and win three nil, a game that Liverpool have actually struggled in. We beat my United a couple of times in Old Trafford under Jürgen. Most of the time when we're beating them, And we beaten them and we batted them, it's been an Anfield. So for a manager to go to Old Trafford in his third game in charge of the football club and win three nil and dominate them, really, that game was over in an hour. It was a training session from that point onwards.

It was really, really impressive. So absolutely Like I say, we couldn't really have asked for more. If you'd have said nine points, no goals conceded with pretty much the same team. It has been the same team, no new signings, really. It's been one and he hasn't played yet. Then I don't really think we could have asked for more, to be honest, Max.

Yeah. I suppose a dream start, really. And in terms of expectations for this season, where would you, as a Liverpool fan, realistically be hoping that the club would finish?

Yeah, it's such a tough question. It's a good question. Top four has to be the minimum. That has to be the minimum, really. Anything other than that for Liverpool is a failure. I think it would be really hard to say to a new man, Come in in in your first year, and by the way, go and topple Pep Guardiola. Michal Artet, who's been building something for three or four years. You have to go and beat them. I think that would be unrealistic. What I wanted, and I think a lot of people found expected, would be to show us what you were about. Do you have a plan? Can we see a way that where you're trying to get to? Maybe it takes a year or two. You probably don't get much longer than that, really, to be competing. Can you lay those foundations down? Can we see what you're about? And then domestic cups, it depends on the draws, I suppose. But I don't think anyone was going to have to win the title. I was expected And Arnaud Slott to come in and go, You have to go win the title. ' I think if Jürgen will have still been in charge, given on the back of what happened last year and how close Liverpool got, Liverpool were top of the league in and around it around March, April time.

Haven't already won a trophy, they were in the quarter final of a Europa League, quarterfinals of an FA Cup, whatever. So given away that season, had gone to that point, I think if Jürgen was still in charge, we probably would have said, 'The expectation is to go better. ' I think that would be really unfair on Arnaud Slott to ask that of him. But I must have missed, Max, the way he started, he's even more expectations on himself because it's been such a good start. And you're looking at Arsenal and they dropped a bit of points and they've got injuries and they got big games coming. And you look at Manchester City and you're thinking, Oh, this hair starts on Monday. I All of a sudden you start going crazy, then you have to calm yourself down. It's just been three games. But I think the expectation of the people who own the football club would have been you have to get us... Liverpool can't be playing your Open League football again. Liverpool will have to be a consistent Champions League team. I think that's the bare minimum that you expect of any Liverpool manager, really.

Yeah, totally. I was about to say, I think Forest fans are looking forward to maybe the Manchester City hearing with everything that has been done with Peter Saar. To be honest, mate, it might be nice to see somebody else win the league as well. On to the game, really, at the weekend. And I almost wonder, actually, just from a neutral point of view as well, Steve, what you made to Forest last season, and obviously a change of manager halfway through everything with a point deduction, but ultimately staying up, which was the goal. Maybe Forest are on the way to become an established Premier League side.

Yeah. I always think sometimes with Forest, then it's a bit... I used to think this a little bit with Chelsea sometimes, back in the day, it'll be at different scales. It was like it always looks quite chaotic and it doesn't quite make sense. But quite often the ends justify the means. Like the fact... Sorry, Norwich, for example, they've tried to do what you'd say, a sustainable way, and I get it. And I think that's quite admirable. And then they keep getting relegated. Whereas Nottingham Forest do some things Really that many players, him, him, him. But it's tended to work even like I say, points deductions and whatever. The idea is you've got to establish yourself in the Premier League for a couple of seasons before you can even think of... You've got to get yourself two or three at least seasons and go, Right, we can build from here. Look what Brighton is or maybe Brentford are trying to do now where you get yourself in for a few years and then you can look up. I think for a few years, you've got to just make sure you stay in the division. So on that front, the decisions have worked because I'm sitting here talking to you.

So obviously there was a Premier League game at this weekend. I like Steve Cooper. I thought he was a good coach, but you could tell there was clashes there with your own... It just never felt right. I also think Nuno was a good coach. I've always thought Nuno was a good coach. I don't think I would be best at all that time if I was paying to watch that football all the time. And I think you might disagree with that, but at some point it probably does have to develop a little bit and it probably has to do. But as a man who can keep it in the division for a bit, stabilize the football I think he's a good appointment. And then Forest has some good players. You've got some good attacking players. And that's what I always thought when we play games against Forest is that I'd expect us to win, but if you all are at your best, you do have players who can hit you. And there's been some very tight games between these two clubs in recent years, obviously, more so away from home for you, for us, rather than at Anfield.

But still, they've been competitive games. If you ask me what my expectations are, I'd expect that Forest will be somewhere between 15th and 15th downwards. My guess is I think they're probably good enough to stay up again. And then next year is probably the season where you go, Right, we've done that a couple of years now. We can't be doing this every year. I really worry for the promoted teams, if I'm honest, all three of them. And I think I thought that last year and I was hard to prove right, really. I just didn't ever think Luton and Sheffield United were going to have enough. I don't think Southampton are going to have enough, and I don't think Ipswich are going to have enough. We'll see what else happens elsewhere. That's the maybe, but even then, I don't know. So I think that my expectation would be for us to stay up, but I would expect us to be down there, Max. I don't know if you guys disagree.

Yeah, I think safety is obviously the main priority. I think a lot of Forest fans think that it might be more of a mid table finish. And I do think we'll be a bit of an underdog this year. I think we'll surprise a few. And as you mentioned, we got some good personnel. I mean, Morgan gives away getting his first England cap the other day. It was quite a big moment for Forest, the first player to do it since 1997. And just on the game then, Steve, turning our attention to that. I mean, how do you see this going? I guess being at home, Anfield, confidence flying under on a slot, you can't see anything more than three points. And for Forest fans, realistically speaking, we go aim for maybe to enjoy the trip more than to try and get anything. And if Forest did get anything, then it really would be probably the result of the season, and certainly maybe even the result of new Who's managerial time at Forest so far.

Yeah, I always think, I always try and flip a little bit and think, if I was an opposition team going to Anfield, when would I like to go? I don't think the back of an international break when Liverpool play Champions League on Tuesday in Milan would be the worst time. I think that's probably a good time from a Forest perspective. Arnaud Slot, so far, this season, has picked 10 players the same in all the games. He made one change at halftime against the Pritch to So often brought Canate on. And then that team has played the next two games. So there's been no need for rotation, not in terms of the first eleven, getting injured, things like that. But now it's probably the first time we're going to see a little bit of rotation. He's going to have to, I guess, somewhere along the line. Liverpool now play every midweek up until the next international break. So for example, I'll run through it very quickly. They play Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday. So it can't be the same eleven all the time. We've had players like Lewis Dias, Alexis McAllister, I know you guys are in a similar way.

They've been away in South America playing games, it qualifies there. We've had... The team hasn't been together for a long time. That's what happens when you're Liverpool, your players play international foot. Even the bench, Are you thinking, well, he's had the rest? No. Kostas Timmerkass doesn't really play for us. He's been playing for Greece. Keith Kelleher has been playing for Ireland and the list goes on and things like that. Even young Tyler Morton was playing for the England Under-21s. There's been a lot of players away. So I think if I was a Forest fan, that might give me a little bit of hope. But you are right. My expectation is that Liverpool playing anybody at home, really. There are very few games where I wouldn't expect us to be favorites, and rightly so. Going back to the previous games against Forest, I think what Forest have tried to do would make it quite chaotic, if that makes sense. Sometimes Liverpool, under Jürgen Klopp, we could get dragged into those type of games. It was how we were set up as well. We wanted to go blow for blow. We'll attack you, there'll be spaces in behind, but we trust our defenders to get it right on And we'll hit you on the counter.

And it's just about work. The against Forest, it hasn't always been easy. I remember somewhere in particular, late winners. Remember that mad game when you just kept doing the long throw in and kept scoring against us? There's been things like that where it's been a bit chaotic. The football under Arna slot has been a bit more measured and a bit more controlled. And I think that against the teams, again, at home, maybe mid table or below, you'd expect a beat. That should work in your favor. But it is the first time, like I say, there's been three games. It would have been one game a week, a full week of training, no No injuries, no rest, no bother at that. We've had players on every continent, Europe, South America, Africa. They've been everywhere stuff. It'll be interesting to see how he picks his team and how... I'm trying to think, does he have half an eye on Milan on Tuesday? Is he not bothered about that? Will he cross that bridge when he gets to it? That's the interesting thing. If you have asked me last week, I don't knew what Liverpool's team was, now I've been able to tell you what it's going to be.

I'd be shocked now if there are a couple of changes at least. And The good news is though, because our bench is pretty strong as well. From our point of view. So there's not too...

Everywhere's strong.

You're not weakening the team too much. If it's not Salah, Jota, and Dias, you've got Nunes, Gacko, and Keza, so they're not bad folks to bring in.

Yeah, not bad at all, especially when I've got a few of them in my fantasy team as well. Who's in your team? From Liverpool, I think I've got Nunez and Salah, so there you go.

Nunez is a tough one, Salah is a banker.

Yeah, exactly.

Valid and friends, get them in your team if you can.

I'd rather have Nico Williams, actually, and Morgan. Right. That does us nicely. Steve, thanks so much for your time, mate. Enjoy the game at the weekend. I am sure we will speak very soon for the reverse fixture. And I appreciate your time, mate. That was Steve there talking about Liverpool's start of the season. And it's quite interesting, actually, Mark, when I was talking to him and he touched on Forest and them being in the Premier League now for a few years and working towards being an established Premier League side. And it's nice to see this fixture given the history back in the day in the Premier League. In terms of Forest tactically, Mark, and going into the game, do you expect Nuno to make changes? And also you look at a player like James Ward-Prowse, I mean, I would be very, very tempted to start him going away to Anfield, would you?

Where would you start him? Who would you start him ahead of?

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Yeah.

He's wide starting. Anderson starting. You're not going to play Ward-Prowse in one of the wide positions, especially over the four players that we have buying for those spots right now. I mean, there's no doubting his quality. He's a fantastic player. I'm delighted to see him in the Garibaldi. I just don't know who you dropped right now. I think Ali Anderson was player of the month, right? For Forrest this last month. Mgdub, obviously, is going to be high on life right now. You're not going to play James Ward-Prowse in the sixth, I don't think. I'm not saying he couldn't play there, but there are better options for that. I mean, they just are, like Sengare, Dominguez, Yates. There's any number of players who are going to give you that bite back there. You're going to need... And to be honest, it'll be interesting to see what Nuno does, Max. I think he might be inclined to have Ellie Anderson even play a little deeper alongside someone like a Sengare to give you that double pivot. I hate to see that because I want to see us be expansive. I want to see us go for the throw, but needs must and all that.

And we are on the road, a team that's, again, got nothing but victories all year long, having conceded the goal and formidable. So I love James Wall-Prowse. The sooner we see him play for Forest, the happier I'll be. I just don't know that it's this weekend. And in terms of how for us to get it done, Max, I think my area is a biggest concern. Well, again, I'll come back to what I said earlier, which is like when you're playing a team where there's a focal point and you can shift one side of the field or you can double up on a player to nullify that threat or maybe the couple of threats that they have, the whole thing becomes much more manageable. With Liverpool, where do you start? I mean, there's so much quality across the board, same as when you play an Arsenal or you play a Man City. So I have concerns about that and about Forest being overwhelmed, particularly if Liverpool start well. My other concern, Max, is our pressing game. I think Kalimhar N'Odoy and Alanga are not particularly good at pressing. They have tons of energy. Technically, excuse me, I mean, tactically, I don't think they're always tuned in.

And sometimes I see us being lopsided because they're not going with the group. And then I think Chris Wood just can't do it. That's not one of his strong attributes. So now you've got a forward line of three players who there's not really any joined up thinking in terms of how they're pressing. What I think has the potential to be a vulnerable Liverpool defense, I think you can get at them. I just don't know that our forward line will very effectively. So then you're in a situation where you're giving them a lot of the ball, you're allowing them to dictate the pace of the game and play out the back. I know I'm sounding like a right for the misery gets out here, aren't I? But again, I can't see anything other than a Liverpool victory. I don't think it will be a landslide. Again, it could be a one goal game, but those are the things that we're concerned Don't drink, kids.

Don't drink.

Don't drink responsibly.

Absolutely. In terms of the game, Mark, I actually think the game might be one in midfield, which is a bit of an odd thing to say against a team like Liverpool and often against in Top 6. However, I think, again, Forest in transition. And also, as you mentioned, you can get at them. And I think Forest will be looking at, again, like we do almost most games, but looking at the wide areas, right? If we have the pace of Anthony Alanger and Callum Hudson adore, if you have Chris Wood, as I knocked my microphone over, have Chris Wood just high, almost on that Liverpool defensive line And then the two wide players alongside. I think it can cause problems. It has caused problems in the past. Absolutely.

That's one of Forrest's trends. Yeah, you're talking about, gosh, I'm going to do it again. A cohesive unit pressing as one. I don't see that with Well, I haven't seen it yet this season. Again, I think, certainly in the last match, I think we pressed high. There was lots and lots of energy. I just don't know that the thinking was joined up enough to disrupt a defense in a team as well coached as Liverpool I mean, Arnaud Slott, it's incredible, really. He hasn't skipped a beat. And arguably the football they're playing right now is better than the football they were playing at the clock. I mean, don't get me wrong, when they were fully bombastic and like going for it and charge of the cavalry and all that, I mean, they were just undeniable, just magnificent. And we seem to be a bit more measured this season. But I mean, they're fully in control of the games they played so far. I mean, it is worrying. But to come back to your point, Yeah, I think when you've got Morgan Gibbs-White, you've got Elliot Anderson, and potentially, probably, Sengare. I think you're right. I think we absolutely can go toe to toe with him in midfield.

I just don't know that it's going to be enough. And also I worry about Sengare as well. I mean, he is Mr. Yellow Card, and I think he might be dual red. So I hope I'm not tempting fate there, but he is. He's a fraction of a second too late, too often. And he's walking that thin line right now, and hopefully, he doesn't fall the wrong side of it this weekend.

Cool, Mark. You like some of these Forest fans on- It was almost a full bottle of wine, Max.

I mean, mate, honestly, some of the negativity that have come out of the club- It was red.

Yeah, but I'm actually one to criticize and scrutinize Often. That's why I do a Forest podcast. Come on. But some of the negativity this week about the club filling the corner in with these hospitality boxes. Oh, they look awful. Come on. Just think of the revenue it will bring the club in. Just lay off it a little bit. We're going to move ground one day. Just chill a little bit.

The Forest's Porta Cabin is sponsored by Max Hayes.

Yeah.

Can't wait to see that silage on there. But no, I mean, you got to be realistic. There are a few teams And it is interesting. So you said earlier in the part about talking, it was Steve, right?

Yeah, Steve.

The Liverpool podcast. And you talked about Forest establishing themselves, mid table, not looking over their shoulder constantly. What are the metrics that enable you to determine that progress? Well, quite clearly, it's position in the league table. That's one, obviously. Secondly, it's not hemorrhaging our best players every single transfer window. But I'd say another of those metrics, Max, is whittling away at the number of teams in the Premier League you no longer fear. You're like, on any given day, we'll turn them over. Could we have said last season, we expect to turn over Villa? Probably not. Do we expect to turn over Tottenham? Probably not. Chelsea? Probably not, right? Could we get a result on the day? Absolutely capable of it. But did we really expect it? And we're now starting to whittle away at these teams. So when you ask those questions about those teams, now I'm like, why not? Look at the talent. Where are we? Where are we a week? Where's our starting 11 week? It isn't. If everyone's fit and ready to go, I'm going toe to toe with Tottenham. I'm confident about taking on Villa. I can't say the same about Man City, Arsenal, and Liverpool.

Yeah, I get that.

Yet. There you go. Well said. Mark, just quickly then, score prediction. Dread to ask, mate. Dread to ask.

All right. Well, just because it's you and I can't break your little heart, I I had three, one bouncing around in my mind, but during this part, you brought me around that. I'm thinking it's a one goal game. So I will go for a two, one. No, you know what? Let's have fun with it. Max is going to Anfield. Let's give him something to... Let's give him an exhibition. I'm going to go Liverpool three, two.

Okay, I'm going to go Forest one, Liverpool one. I think it'll be a draw.

After all of that, all the yapping, a little dog over in the corner. Come on, come out here. Come out here.

Neutral presenting.

Encouraging your convictions.

All right, well, mate. All right, 1-1 up until... I'm telling you now, clip this, right? One, one. I've honestly had a dream. One, one until the 83rd minute. Jotter Silver is going to come on for Forest and out of nowhere, going to just unleash one. It's going to go top bin, two, one, last minute.

I would love to see that. Firstly, he's a bloke that has that in him. Obviously, we've seen it. Secondly, top celebrator. Can't stand these players who just don't know how to celebrate. He's got it down. And thirdly, can you imagine that would be alongside the Arsenal game- Revenge.

Revenge, actually, after their- Revenge.

Yeah. Alongside the Arsenal game two seasons ago, and maybe the Newcastle game where Chris Wood temporarily became messy, that would be one of the iconic games of Forest's modern history, to take Liverpool down at Anfield and Max Hayes to be there to see it in the flesh. Good grief. You know what? You're I'm going to be flipping drinking if that happens. I want to part within 20 minutes of the final whistle.

Might be a bit of a challenge being at the game with the... My 40 is terrible in Manchester, never mind a football ground with 30, 40,000 people in it. It's a good job Paul Tierney isn't reffing. He was just about to say that. Still haven't forgiven that bloke. We've got Michael Oliver instead. Oh, wonderful. Even better. Yeah. Right. That, I think, finishes us very nicely. Thanks to Ste as well for his thoughts, Mark, as ever. Thank you, mate. We shall be back on Sunday for our main episode. I start Uni on Monday, so it's all a bit all over the place. So I know, yeah, final year. See, this is the thing, Mark. We've almost switched roles, right? It's freshers this week at the minute in the UK for all the university students. I went and ran 10K this morning because if you didn't know, I'm running a half marathon. It's not that I don't go on about it enough. I've got my first six aside game back tonight. I'm keeping fit, quite healthy, not even had a drink today, whereas you've obviously been out with the students in America.

Well, for listeners of yours wondering why I was drinking last night, I have a mate here from England. Very quick story. And he and I have been friends for a very long time. And so he's always enjoying when he comes over to see me. So we sat up last night drinking. But the funny thing about him, his name's Trev. I'll give him a name check because he does listen to the pod, so he'll be excited. And we have a bit of a side bet going on with regards to Liverpool as well, which I'm not going to reveal right now, Max. But yeah, the next time I'm on the pod, if Forest would, it could be a little embarrassing for me. But anyway, Trev, always been a football fan, never had a team. And I used to live in Nottingham, obviously. So he lives in Oxford. And I dragged him up to the city ground for his first live match, and he summarily became a red. And of course, I've seen very little in the way of joy, subsequently. I mean, this is going back 23, 24 four years, so right after we got relegated. But he was there with me at Wembley.

Trev and I shared that experience together, and he's properly died in the wall now. So thanks for listening, Trevor. Appreciate you coming on the journey with me. You've got to say how painful it's been most of the way. Good times now, though. Nothing like good times.

Yeah. Thanks, Trev. Not only for listening to the Garabody Red podcast, but for also being a friend to Mark. It is a tough gig. Right. That finishes us nicely. Give us a like, share, and subscribe on YouTube. Follow us across Spotify and Apple podcast. Leave us a review if you did enjoy. I'm telling you, Jotter Silver, last minute tomorrow, my youthful optimism is there. Come on, you reds.