Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Garibaldi Red podcast. I'm Max Hays, your host, and joined by Mark Turner to discuss the Forest's latest news in the preseason as Willy Nonto, heavily linked from Leeds. We'll also discuss a topic that's become one amongst the Forest fan base at the moment with Steve Cooper becoming the Leicester City Manager. And also, as the inevitable PSR deadline looms on June the 30th, where Forest and many other Premier League clubs will have to submit their accounts. We will delve into that. Mark, good to see you. I like the little description on YouTube that you've put as your headline, Mark, It's Probably Not Coming Home, Turner, which you're probably right, mate, especially after that poor England performance last week. How are you? How was your holiday? Nice break and nice to have you back with us as well on the podcast.

Yeah, cheers mate. It's good to be back. I had a fantastic holiday. Went back to Europe, hit Iceland for a few days, which I highly recommend. I imagine, what I was about to say, imagine not too many English people consider going to Iceland for holiday because you got rain and miserable weather and terrible beaches at home. So Why would you pay to go somewhere else for that? But I also know that obviously it's fairly close to the UK and very affordable to get there. And I would recommend people check it out. About halfway through the vacation in Iceland, I stopped taking pictures because my iPhone was doing a miserable job of capturing the breathtaking scenery that I was being treated to. It's absolutely staggering. And then I went and did a little bit of a Willy Lonto scouting. I went to Italy, not to Willy Lonto country. I was down in Rome and down on the Amalfi Coast, and he heralds from up near Milan. But yeah, that was fantastic, too. So delighted to be back. Excited to talk all things forest. Well, excited to talk some things forest. Less excited to talk PSR, but let's get into it anyway.

Yes, definitely. And you mentioned Willy Nonto there. We'll kick off with him because he's been heavily linked the past couple of days, various media reports and social media speculation. But it's a player I think Forest have kept an eye on for a while. He's a very good player. He's energetic, he's enthusiastic. I think he's what you want, really, in a side. If Forrest do look to sell, sadly, with the PSR deadline, then there will be a bit of almost slight room, shall we say, to bring some players in, but it can't really go over an incredible amount, whereas Willy Nonto leads will have to sell to fit with their PSR rules. So it's one rule for one club and pretty much the same for the other, which Forest, in some way, can benefit from. What do you make of him, Mark? Because he is a good player. He's done well for leads. A bit of controversy on and off the pitch, shall we say, when he refused to play that time and all the transfer speculation around him. But he is a player that you look at the Forest side at the moment and you think he could slot in nicely.

Yeah, he'll fit in at the city ground, won't he? He did a proper Pierre Van Huydun last season, refusing to play at the beginning of the year before about turning apologizing to the manager and his teammates. And then having quite an impact on lead season this last year. I think he scored eight or nine goals in 40 plus appearances in all competitions. His record, his career record... Bear in mind, he's 20 years He's one of those who feels like he's been around for forever. But I think he averages about a goal every five games, and likewise, about an assist every four or five games, too. But it's interesting, Max. He reminds me in many ways of Callum Hudson-O'Doy. Again, Cho feels like he's been around for forever, but Nonto really has only been on the scene here in England for the last couple of seasons. Obviously, he has premiership experience, which is important. Can play out the left, can play out the right. I think in the Premier League, he was predominantly out the left. This last year in the Championship, primarily out the right. Evidently, according to his Wikipedia page, he could play through the middle, too.

I haven't seen that for myself, but that was certainly That would certainly check a box for us because we're incredibly light, obviously, through the middle of the park with Taewo and Chris Wood sharing that position, but neither of them are able to stay fit for any period of time. So I have a young and energetic option through the middle would be fantastic. Yeah, I don't really see a downside. I was actually texting with a mate of mine who's a Leeds fan early this morning trying to get the skinny, and this gentleman is not particularly verbose, so he kept it pretty short. But he said, Leeds fans love him. He works really, really hard. He's quick. Some fans, obviously not happy with how he conducted himself beginning this last season, but he would be missed. So it depends I think, Max, what we can get him for. I've heard numbers in the region of 12, 13, 14 million quid. That seems a little on the... Well, it doesn't seem on the high end for an Italian international because he has been in a play for the Azuri already. But knowing Leeds in this financial situation, it would be nice to be the other side of the fence, wouldn't it?

Be the team putting the screws to another team who are desperate to sell and need to balance the books. So I think if Forrest could get him around the 10 million mark, I would I'm absolutely pull the trigger on that one.

Yeah, for sure. Do you think it is, when you look at a player like Nonto, a young, energetic player, as you mentioned there, is that what Forrest need in a way to build if we keep him and keep certain players in particular, I suppose, Morgan Gibbs-White, almost building around young hungry players rather than having Forest have often gone for Premier League experience or these slightly older players. And often, sometimes, I know the famous saying, you don't win him by playing kids. But in a way, almost having that youth around the team and building round that, I think that's what Forrests would maybe go for this summer in terms of a transfer approach, and it will be cheaper as well.

I think that's what Forest have gone for this last year, Max. We've If you look at the... We were obviously the punching bag for every other fan base in the Premier League two seasons ago when we recruited 362 players in 30 days or whatever it was. And there appeared to be very little method to that madness other than we needed warm bodies in the building. But I think this last season, you and I have both given props to the recruitment and said, it does seem to be a bit of joined up thinking now. If you look at some of the players that have been most impactful this past season, you mentioned GWW, Murillo, obviously, Elanga, Cho. I mean, they fit that profile. They're sub-25 years old, they're young, they're hungry, they're out to prove themselves, either because Forrest represents a big step for them, like Murillo, or a rebirth in the case of Elanga and Cho. So I think Nonto fits that profile really well. And I think also, Max, you asked the question, is this what Forrest need? I don't know that he's the priority. I think there's other parts of the field where I think an out-and-out striker as opposed to somebody who can be an auxiliary is more of a priority.

I think additional depth in defense. I think certainly additional depth in central midfield as well. Those are probably priorities. But one thing for us do need to is they need to begin building depth on the bench. We need legitimate options when plan A isn't working. And with a Nonto is a starter or somebody who comes off the bench an hour in, again, I think he'd be a great acquisition, and I think he'd fit well with the players we have already.

Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned there about the recruitment strategy, and it will be interesting to see how Forrest to approach it. Remember, we're still at the earlier stage of preseason, the Euro is still going on. Players not even back, really, and reporting for duty before they go away to preseason camp, which I think, if I'm correct in saying, will be in Spain. They will go back to where they were, I think, a few years ago. They'll also play Valencia in a preseason friendly, and hopefully a few at the city ground, too.

But just staying on- Can I ask you quickly then? What are your thoughts on those two things? In terms of, does he fit the profile? And also, what do you think would be good value for money?

What in terms of willing on? Yeah, the price ticket. Yeah. I think it all depends where the Forest sell Callum Woodson at all because he's been linked, hasn't he? With all the clubs. So I think almost they're a very similar player. And as you mentioned there, Mark, they're almost like for like. So where they're bringing another player in. But whether Forrest would look to play up front, as you said, that's what a lot of people have speculated about in the past. He hasn't for Leeds. Could he do a job up front? I'm sure he can. So hopefully, if Forrest did bring him in, he's another option for Taewo, who, let's face it, isn't the fittest player going and will most likely get injured again next season, is an option for Chris Wood to replace Chris Wood for when he isn't scoring goals or when he's going through a bad patch. So I think if Forrest signed him, I'm kept told of Callum Hudson and doy, brilliant. But I don't think that's going to happen. I think if Callum went, I think then that's when Forrest would probably turn all their attention to Nonto. Do you agree with that, Mark?

Yeah.

And I think also Forrest need to be mindful now as well as turning a profit. We're going to be a selling club every season now. That's just the way it is. So if you bring William Nonto in, and let's say you get him for 10, 11 million quid, and he has things to prove, right? He didn't have the greatest season in the Premier League. He was one of the better players for Leeds, but he didn't exactly blow the doors off. If he rocks up at the city ground that has a couple of stellar seasons and Forest can flip him for 30, 40 million, that obviously represents good business. So I think there's lots of things to consider here, but in balance, yeah, I think he'd be a acquisition. I'd love to see him in the Gary Ball.

For sure. Here's a question, Mark. And I think it's been... I think me and you may have spoken about it in the past, but with PSR, Lumen, and the deadline, and to sell players, and John Percy reported he did a brilliant article in the Telegraph the other week about Forest almost trying to scramble around to find players that they can sell for a smaller value, which would then contribute to the amount that Forest needs to make up from the losses. Would you take a points deduction, again, in order to keep the likes of Gibbs White, Murillo, Callum Hudson, Adoy, or would you be more tempted to sell the likes, sell one of Morgan Gibbs, or Murillo, and obviously avoid a points deduction?

You see, this is why I resist coming on this podcast whenever you ask me.

I will show you the difficult ones.

You mean things like this to me. Okay, so The churlish and somewhat immature young man in me says, yes, flip the bird to the authorities and be like, the way that you have this organized right now with PSR makes no sense. It's an absolute nonsense. Let's take the points here. Let's keep our best players, and let's blow it up on the field. Let's see what this team can do now that we're in our season on, more familiar with one another, and hopefully, they'll to go to jail more effectively and really develop as a unit. The old man in me with the business head is like, 'It's not a good look, is it? It's not a good look to be doing that and to be willfully doing that. And it be so transparent that you're angling for that point here and bucking the system. So I don't know, I'm in conflict there, Max, but I think the old man probably wins out in the end. I think we need to try and adhere to the rules as best as possible. We know they're getting ready to change. So no, I think we try and play the game as best as we possibly can and stay within the guardrails, I suppose.

Yeah, I agree as well. And I think if you're going to sell, and we talk about it for weeks on end, and we won't go into it because we have so many times on previous podcast. But if you're going to sell one out of Morgan, Gibbs, White, and Marillo, who is easier to replace, in my opinion, you sell Marillo and And then also, Forest have still got strong defenders, Nia Kharté, Oma Baladele, you forget. Oma Baladele didn't really have a look in towards the end of last season due to that partnership with Marillo when it was Nia Kharté at times and Willy Bolley when he was fit towards the end of the season. So for me, I'd be tempted to sell one of those and obviously avoid the points deduction.

Yeah, I agree. And also off the back of a major tournament, whether it's the World Cup or it's the Euros, you always see players pop up in the Premier League that no one ever heard of before, right? Whether it's a Ukrainian defender or a Georgian defender or wherever they may herald from. And so there's talent out there. We've seen it on our TVs here this last couple of weeks. So Murillo is fantastic. He's not the world's great to center back, and Forest aren't going to implode if we sell him. It would be very sad. We'd miss him, but life will go on and we'll find a way to cover that at the back. Morgan Gribs why, yeah, he's a keeper. We can't afford to lose him.

Yes, I completely And talking of PSR, obviously, deadline looming, what day are we on now? The 24th. No, 24th today.

It's 25th in Italy, so excuse me.

All right. Time difference, say. So Forest looming that deadline on the 30th of June, where they have to make the loss. And it's been an odd one the last week because certain Premier League clubs, in particular Villa and Everton, almost trading players to avoid it, which is Just unbelievable, obviously. And then Forest signing a player and then loaning him out to Olympia Arcos, whether that's to do with the PSR rules. There is so many loopholes around these, and it's why they need to be changed ultimately, and they will in the not-too-distant future. Just actually, before we come on to PSR more, Mark, what did you make to Forest signing and then loaning out to Olympia Arcos instantly? It's something we've done before, and it's just bizarre, in my opinion. You're signing a player, and you want that player and you want that player to play in Forest Side. You want them to be possibly near the starting 11 on a Saturday in the Premier League for when it really matters. Yet you're signing a player and instantly loaning them out to Olympia Arcos, albeit the sister club. But what's the point?

Yeah. I don't know if I have anything new to add to this conversation. Social media has been a buzz. I think you just summarized it quite nicely there. I think about half of the Olympiacos squad right now are either on Forest books or have been at at some point. It's odd. It's just very odd. But again, I think it falls under the heading of the way of the world today. You just reference some of the jiggery-pokery that's going on in the EPL right now between a couple of teams. That's not the last we're going to see of that. So it is bizarre. It used to be the good old days. You'd sign a player in all fans to be super excited and couldn't wait to see him in the Garibaldi. And what's this fellow bring into the party? And anymore, it's so very complicated. I agree with you. It's weird, but it is what it is.

Yeah, it is. And the player we're talking about for reference as well, I forgot to say his name was Marco Stamanik, who is a New Zealand international midfielder. Decent player, too. Yeah, very decent player. Actually, I was looking at his stats the other week and he contributed something like a- A mate of mine is a New Zealand international, and he coaches now actually in Scandinavia.

And I was talking to him about Stamanik, and he said, yeah, he's a very, very good player, technically very good. And I mentioned, one of the areas I think we need to create depth on our squad is in central midfield. I don't think we have it. At least we have numbers, we don't have quality. And so I'd like to have seen him rock out the city ground in a first game of the season.

Yeah, he'll be in Greece instead and enjoying the sun in Greece for a couple of months in the summer while Nottingham continues to have the rain. Right, back to PSR, and We'll quickly clear it up because there's so much to talk about, but it's very hard in a nutshell, when realistically me and you, Mark, will openly admit we're not financial experts and we don't know what's really going to happen on that deadline. But you just wonder, don't you? And I suppose this is from a footballing fan point of view and forget all the Forest stuff. But when the Premier League start dishing out points deductions and Leicester will most likely get one next season and Villa have been rumored to get one, obviously, to Everton, possibly falling under it as well. It's just frustrating when the league table is made up with, has teams with a star next to because they've got a point seduction and ultimately, possibly relegate that club. I think when you start mixing financial and football, it's just frustrating, and it just shows how inconsistent the rules are. And we talk about it all the time, but Man City with 115 charges yet.

We've not heard anything really about that recently.

Yeah, it used to be, didn't it? When you had a star on your shirt, it's because you won a European Cup. But maybe teams should start putting asterisks over their badges to represent how many times they've been dinged on PSR. Again, it's just the way of the world. It is very frustrating. I think whenever we talk about football and what goes on in the terraces or in stadium, and we talk about things like, for instance, racism. We know racism and the ugly face of it isn't limited to a football stadium. That is a reflection of what goes on in the greater society, unfortunately. I think something like PSR, again, I think it's just a reflection of the wider world. It's people moving money around. It's trying to beat the system. Those that have money are more capable of doing that, are able to engage their attorneys, are able to push back. I heard somebody on a podcast earlier today suggest that Man City essentially attacking the Premier League was... What was the phrase they used? Obstruction of justice. I'm like, 'Yeah, ' essentially it is, but they have the money to do it, and they drag this out for as long as they possibly can, probably until the rules change, and then 115 charges becomes three or four, which they can then absorb.

So it is frustrating, and the sooner the rules are changed, the better. But in the interim, for us, you have to toe the line. So to your earlier point, do we sell one big player or do we sell a handful of less valuable players to try and accrue the funds we need in order not to get dinged again? I don't know what the answer is there, because as I said earlier in podcast, Max, we know that leads are on a sticky wicket, and I'd love to put that, turn the screw on them when it comes to the fee we pay for Nonto if we're able to get him. But every other club is thinking that about Forest. We're not getting five million quid for Joe Warrall. If we get two, we'll do well. Joe Warrall is worth a lot more than two million quid. He's a former Premier League defender. He's playing in the top league in Greece right now. Greece, right? Greece is Turkey?

Yeah, it's Turkey. Turkey.

Excuse me. We're Greece obsessed, aren't we, on this podcast? So, yeah, I don't know what the answer is, but I agree with you. It is incredibly frustrating when you see a Premier League table and it's dotted with asterix's, it's very, very sad.

It is. Talking of being obsessed with Greece. If Marenacus wants to fund me and you to go out to Greece, then we welcome it to do a podcast out there with Olympia Arcos.We 100 % welcome it.Let's do it. You know where we are, Forest. Let's talk about another topic that's dominated the headlines recently, which is Steve Cooper being appointed as Leicester City Manager. Them, and one that's split the fan base's opinion, shall we say. Mark, I suppose from my point of view, Cooper will always be remembered, is a legend, is the best Forest manager in my lifetime, maybe in yours, or certainly will come close, I'm sure. So we'll always wish him well, but it's a bit of an odd feeling him going to a rival club.

All right, let's knit this in the bud. Forest fans spend every week minute, giving, like, mocking Leicester fans at the suggestion that we consider Leicester to be a rival, right? We spend all this time saying, 'They're not a rival. ' Look at them. Look at them desperately trying to be rivals of ours. Like, Derby are our rival. ' to a lesser extent. Notts County are our rival, but not really. And then the minute that Steve Cooper rocks up at Philburt... Is it still called Philburt Street, isn't it? I can never remember. What is it? I'm going to call it Philburt Street anyway, because that's how old I am. Whatever nondiscreet name they've given their stadium these days.

The King Power, actually,. There we go.

There we go. King Power. The minute Steve Cooper Rocks up there, all of a sudden we're indignant about it and he's gone to arrival. I suggest that in recent times, Sheffield United are way more of a rival than Leicester are.

Yeah, that's a good point.

So no, I'm absolutely with you. I have a no earwill towards Steve Cooper. I actually, I put it on Twitter. I said, Here's my position. I hope Steve Cooper does really well, and I wish the best for him. I hope that we beat Leicester both times that we meet him this season, and I hope that they don't get relegated, end up below us and don't get relegated. That's it. And if people watching and listening to this podcast want to take unbreached with that, fill your boots. That's fine. But that's my position. I think he just gave so much to our club, not just on the field, but the way that unified our city, the way that we talk about a football soul, or he talked about the football soul at Forest. Forest felt like Forest again, Max, under Steve Cooper. Every club in the Premier League, or every club, or all of the 92 clubs, they have a distinct character about them. And there are certain things about each of those clubs that mark them out as being who they are. So West Ham fans forever gone about winning the World Cup, right? Liverpool fans, they talk about their unity and they're being able to lock arms with their club and the world against Liverpool, or London, in particular, against Liverpool, the South of England against Liverpool.

Every club has their little thing, their little nuances, and whether it's what happens on the field or what happens on the terraces or just the club's DNA. What is it that makes that club distinct? And I think for many, many years, Forrest had lost that. I think we just lost that. I think we lost it in part in our desperation to get back to the Premier League. And it was literally throw everything against the wall. I know I'm doing a Dave rant here, sorry. But Dave, I hope you're proud of me. It was throw everything against the wall to see whatever we could do to get back to the Premier League. And in the process, I think we lost a little bit of who we are, or more than a little bit of who we are. Cooper came in to Forest and very quickly understood what makes our club special and unique. And he unified the club, he unified the fan base, he unified the city. And in the process, most successful manager in your lifetime, got us back to the promised land. And then the wheels fell off a little bit. And I referenced earlier how many players we bought in that first year back in the Premier League.

And I think that was a contributing factor to us losing our way a little bit, although I understand the need to do it. And maybe not to quite the degree we did. So I will forever be grateful to Steve Cooper and what he did for my club, not just on the field, but off it, too. And again, I wish him all the best this season. Sorry, massive rant, but it flies all over me when I see people on Twitter giving him crap or having a go at the fact that maybe he had a little work done on his eye or something. I'm like, How small are we? ' When you were at Wembley two years ago, two and a half years ago, screaming at the top of your lungs. Like, you not remember that? Were you not entertained? I watched Gladiator last night, actually, with my kids. So, yeah, fair play to him. Gladi is a good club. Leicester are a good club. And like I said, hope he beat him twice, hope they end up below us, hope they don't get relegated. Don't wish that on Steve Cooper.

Yeah, I think he's a good coach. If only Steve Cooper is in charge of England, that's all I'll say on that. I think he could do a much better job with the talent at his I suppose, given that he's worked with half of the players and won the World Cup with them in the Under-17s. But that's another topic of conversation, really. Yeah, nicely summarized, Mark, I think. Sorry, that was a bit- No, I think a lot of fans will agree with you. And I think one of the big talking points maybe this season will be where Forest finish in comparison to Leicester or vice versa. And obviously, Leicester will most likely get a points deduction, so that already puts them obviously at a huge disadvantage. But I'm sure Cooper will work his magic. He's a great coach. He's got a long way to go in his career. I'm sure he'll do well, whether that will be at Leicester this season or at another club in five years time. And he has moved on, sadly, but Forest ultimately did sack him. But now we've got new notes, so we back him and really focus on ourselves and nothing else.

It's Nottingham Forest at the end of the day, isn't it? So we'll focus on Forest and not other managers. Right, just quickly then before before we wrap up, Mark. What does Forest need to... Again, it's a difficult question, so prepare yourself. What does Forest need to do in this preseason break? Once all the players come back and the training camps begin and Nuno begins having that time with the players and having a full preseason with them, what does Forest need to do to ensure that the mistakes of last season, of set pieces, of nearing the relegation fight, bar the points, deduction, and certain things like that, what does Forest ultimately need to do to make sure that they're not in a similar position next season and that we're just going to be all right in our third season of the Premier League.

Yeah. I mean, I've had the answer to that question, Max. I wouldn't be on this.

Yeah, well, you wouldn't be sat here on a Monday afternoon doing it with me and copying my dress sense again, by the way.

Yeah. Anyone who's watching this, what is it? It's not a podcast if you're watching it. Anyway, watching this, this livestream, we do not coordinate in advance. We really don't.

Really? I felt like it was today when I rocked up and you came on and it was like, not again. He's there copying my style. What can I say to you, say? The you thing.

When you ask me a similar question to this one at the end of last season, and I think my response was And I think people are getting tired of hearing me say this, but the focus needs to be on really gelling this team, right? I felt until... Unfortunately, there were a couple of key moments toward the end of the season where the team did come together, where we did play as a unit, where we were able to get games over the line, obviously, because we secured our safety in the Premier League again. But those were few and far between. And I'm honestly a little bit surprised that Nuno is still going to start the season as Forest Manager. I don't hate it, but I'm surprised by it.

Yeah, me too.

That being said, after the Euros, managers will be floating around, so there's still time. But I don't know, Max. I mean, certainly a keen focus needs to be placed on our dead ball game, both defending it and also attacking, quite frankly. I think we were pretty pitiful on corners and free kicks this year. I think recruitment is going to be key. And again, I don't know that Forrest need to be going after. I don't think they can afford to go after banner players. I don't think we need some 40 million quid number nine or something. I think our recruitment this last year or so has actually been pretty solid. And so I'd like to see us continue to strengthen the squad overall. I can't desperately try not to say 'roster' and use the American terminology, but it says 'strengthen the squad overall'. And that needs to be in central midfield and central defense, particularly if Murillo is sold. I think adding another goalkeeper and also clearing out at least two of those that we have is important as well to balance the books. Actually, weirdly enough, as much as our current goalkeepers have gotten a lot of heat this last year or so, both of them, I think, still would carry some money in the market.

Matt Turner, starting American international, kept a clean sheet last night in America's opening game against Bolivia in the Copa, right? The American. My brain is all over the shop this morning. I think it's just because I've literally just come back off holiday, and I'm not yet on the American time zone, so I'm all over the shop. I didn't watch that game, but I think Turner still has some value associated with him. So does Ollie as well. So, yeah, again, I wish I could give you a more sophisticated answer, but certainly time needs to be spent on focussing on devils, both defending and attacking, deepening the squad, and then just continuing to bring this squad together, have us play, have us have a distinct style of how we play, and just hope that familiarity might breed better results this season, because a lot of these players now have been together for a couple of years, not all of them, obviously. But yeah. So again, I wish it could be a more sophisticated answer.

Cohesion, Mark. Cohesion.

Cohesion. You were waiting for the word, weren't you? I was trying to avoid it, actually. I don't know. What do you think?

Yeah, I think just inconsistency. And I think also, in fact, to answer these questions, I was lucky enough to be invited to do the 4-4-2 season preview for Forest, which will be out in a few weeks time in the Premier League. Big preview review book. And I actually talked about, I think one of the questions was what the Forest needs to do this season to ensure that the thing last season didn't happen. And in a way, just go under the radar a bit. Let people talk about somebody else other than Forest. And I just think the constant, excuse me, constant speculation, the constant media talk about points deductions and club statements, whether we all agree with them or not, the off the field issues with ownership. Let's just have a nice, comfortable season. Let's just have a season where we keep the same manager, we keep the majority of the squad, albeit that will be challenging because of PSR, we know that. And just let's not do anything stupid in a way. I think that's my advice to Forrest, and I just think that's what we should be doing in general. Let's just have a nice, quiet season.

Easier said than done, because it's always a roller coaster in football, and it certainly is in the Premier League, one of the toughest league, if not the detoughest league in the world. Let's just see. And a few away wins would be nice, We're not, to be honest. And as Dave said on the last podcast, when we reacted to the Forest Fix just coming out, just beating Bournemouth on the opening day would be nice because they're a bogey team.

Yeah, absolutely. I do agree. Actually, I'm glad you're circling back to that because I think that's really important. I think getting up on the right foot and winning, particularly against a bogey team, I think is really, really critical. The whole season is not going to rise and fall on it, but I think it could provide a really effective springboard if we're able to get a really good display in dropouts and obviously three points right out the gate. But anyway, I do apologize for my head being all over the place. Two days ago, I was eight hours ahead in time zone.

Still sounded good, mate.

Still sounded good. So this is what you get off the back of one cup of coffee. I need at least three to get on podcast, generally speaking.

See, David, the other week from Australia was up at 5:00 in the morning with no coffee, straight from bed. He had bed hair and he still sounded fine, Mark. So there you go. Work on it for the preseason, mate.

I've done that. I've just not flown back from Italy 48 hours prior.

Yeah, good point. Anyway. Glad you had a nice time. He was good, actually. That was a good episode. Yeah, it was. It was very good.

I couldn't understand the word he said, but it was a good episode.

Straight into some nice promo there. Thanks, Mark. Yeah, we did an episode reviewing our favorite Forest shirt. So if you're sick of seeing me and Mark dress like each other, then me, Dave, well, two Dave's, because Dave has to be joined us as well. And David Boldman from Australia. We discussed our favorite Forest kits in the past few years. If you scroll back through Spotify, Apple, YouTube, wherever you normally listen or watch Garibaldi read, then it will be there. And then also another good episode to promo is a book we did, Three Football in Legends, with Ben Dobson, the author. It was great. Really, really good piece. I love that. Yeah, really good piece.

That was my era. So as he was talking about history managers, Laura McMenemy, Bobby Robinson, obviously, and Brian Plath. Man, got tears of nostalgia welling up in the corners of my eyes.

God, was that your holiday listen? I thought you'd like to switch me off for a bit, Mark. You got sick of me that much.

No, I had you in my ears, Max. When I was laying on the beach on the Amalfi Coast, I had Max Hayes alongside me. God, I feel for it. That sounds terrible. Let me rephrase that.

To be fair, if Mariannack has paid for us to go to Greece, then we could be on a beach. But there you go. Right, that does us nicely, I think, before we both go crazy, give us a like, share, and subscribe on YouTube. Follow us on Spotify and Apple podcast. We will see you hopefully sometime this week. Sarah- Before you go, before you go, Gareth Southgate, how did it replace Calvin Phillips?

Is Ryan It's a joke to you?

Anne Morgan. And Morgan, that's what England needs, somebody with a bit of passion and enthusiasm to come off the bench. And if only we had those. Well, I think we do. It's just often the tactical approach. And you've just reminded me, actually, Mark, before we do go, a few little plugs. Two things, shout out to Ellis, who came up to me in Nottingham the other day and said he was a big fan of the podcast, so I promised him a shout out. It's a big shout out to him. He's a chef as well, and he made some great food at the fan park. He did some great burgers. So shout out to Ellis. The second thing This gives me a nice little chance to plug it. After this podcast, I'm off running because I'm training to do the half marathon in Manchester in October, Raising Money for Footprints in Nottingham, which is a great charity. We did an episode with Rob a couple of months ago. So if you can, please do donate. There is a link on my Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and we'll also put one in the podcast description. Just go to Just Give In and you'll see it there, me and my brother, who is a Ryan Yates lookalike, running the Manchester half marathon.

So, yeah, I might take the day off, actually, after, Mark. You might have to come on podcast Hosting duty with Sarah and do the podcast then because I'll probably be recovering from... But then again, I am young, so I should smash it, shouldn't I, really?

Yeah, you'll be fine. Take your time. Don't kill yourself. You'll be fine. It's about finishing. It's not about personal bests.

Maybe, yeah. Great piece of advice. Right. That does nicely. Anything more for you to add, Mark?

No. I had a second cup of coffee on its way. Thank you so much, listeners and viewers, for sticking with me as I stumbled my way through this podcast.

Exactly. There you go. The things that the Garabody red listeners do with us, too. And by the way, if any fashion label wants to sponsor me and Mark to wear the same clothes, and then we will be coordinated, you know where we are. There's an email in the description on YouTube, maybe like Jack and Jones or Marks & Sponsor England and South. Yeah, exactly. So many- Other brands available. Yeah, so many, of course. Other brands available. So many good ones that could come to us. So we'll see. You never know, we might have a partner before we get started with a new season. Right. Do give us a like, share, and subscribe on YouTube. Follow us on Spotify and Apple podcast. Leave us a review. If you did enjoy me and Sara. We'll be back next week with something a little bit different, and hopefully another podcast as well for you this week. But do listen to some previous episodes to keep you busy if you're on holiday on a beach like Mark was a couple of weeks ago. And that is the way to do it. Thank you, as always, for the kind words and support for the podcast.

We'll see you very soon from me and Mark. Come on, you reds.