Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Garibaldi Red podcast. The season may be over and Forrest may be playing in the Premier League for yet another season, but podcasts aren't yet. We are here to do a bit of a end of season review and awards type podcast. No other better man to join us from a hotel room. He's got up bright and early in the States for us. Mark Wacker Wacker Turner with the wonderful title. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll be able to see it in the bottom left-hand corner. Mark, good to see you. Take two of this podcast as I was giggling and stumbling lines. How are How are you? And how are you reflecting on the season? You enjoying it, the break almost, even though it's only been a week or two?

Yeah. Hello, mate. It is morning here in the States. I know you're well into your day over there in Bligh tea, so it's a pleasure to see I'm relieved. I'm relieved that Forrest are in the Premier League. Obviously, I was a bit of a naysayer with, what was it? Nine, 10 games to go. But well and good offline. I was saying to you, I really hope they do it, but I feel like they could do it, but they need to put a run of results together. But on the part, I was speculating that it was probably beyond them. So for Forrest to get over the line, finally, mathematically in that game against Burnley, It was a huge relief. It was actually very weird to be sat in the pub in America with some of my mates. They had all the different TV screens on showing all the different games. And it was actually very weird after Forrest scored, was after 90 seconds. We're like, Oh, that's that then. Get another round in. We're done. No panic. Just chill out and enjoy the rest of the day. So yeah, very happy.

I see I was still panicking in the away end. Even we were on the look. It's Forest, Mark. It's Forest. It's never easy. Before Before we get on to the End of Season Awards, and we do our worst moment of the season, best moment of the season, all of that, just wanted to quickly touch on a bit of news about Forest, obviously releasing players at the end of their contracts. The infamous Harry Arta will be off, finally. But also contract renewals, such a crucial player. But also contract renewals for Willy Bolly and Ola Aina with a one year extension. I guess, positive news, Mark, and nice to see the club getting it done nice and early with what will be another busy summer preparing for a big season.

Yes and yes. Yeah, I'm delighted the club jumped on this. And Bollie, I think, Eina's impact on the team has been more and more evident as the season's rolled on because of Bollie's injury situation. His season has been a stop start. So I don't think we've necessarily, I think some fans have appreciated his input this I think probably a lot of folks haven't realized how important he's been to the calls. I think it's a no-brainer to get them both signed up. I'm delighted to see it. Like you said, have the club doing nice and early. So, yeah, good news.

Yes, good stuff.

With Harry Arta, I've got to say, genuinely devastated. I do not know who's going to slice the oranges now.

Apparently, to be fair with Harry Arta, he was helping the Under-21s doing some coaching of some salt. So there you go.

Oh, fair play.

Yeah, he had an impact in some way, shall we say. Enough said about that. Let's look back on the season with our End of Season Awards. We were going to go with soups, weren't we, Mark? But we thought we'd go a bit more casual for giving out the awards. Let's start with the moment of the season. We'll start with your answer, and then I'll chip in off the back.

So is this high point or low point?

High point. Moment of the season. So a good All right.

Well, because I know we're coming on to low point as well, this is backwards for me because I have to explain why it's the high point off the back of the low point, and we haven't gotten to the low point yet. But that's okay, Max. So the high point for me was probably the Newcastle game, the Chris Wood, messy-like display. It was a fantastic performance in and of south, and obviously a high point for Chris Wood, personally, this season. But the reason it's my high point of the season, my moment of the season, it's because it came off the back of me being very, very down in the dumps about something that preceded that moment, which we'll come on to here in a minute. But that was probably one of the most complete performances we saw from a Forest team against a legitimate top six outfit and away from home as well. So, yeah, That gave me hope, reignited the spark. We might turn the ship around. We could yet survive. And so it proved.

Yeah, I can remember. Well, I was just about to say, I can remember we did the podcast after the Newcastle game, and I think... Yeah, because it was Boxing Day, so we all... Well, I wore Christmas jumpers. I don't think you did.

I think you were a great- I have a Christmas jumper. How did you? How did you? Yeah. My ugly gorilla jumper.

Very good. You'll have to put one on when he does it again next season, on Christmas Eve this time.

I might just wear it every game next season in the hopes. Yeah, exactly.

My moment of the season would probably be... It was a close one, this. I was thinking maybe the Man United win After Christmas, especially living in Manchester and being able to go back with a smile on my face. But then I thought, no, probably not. I'd actually say the Fulham game when Forest just came out of nowhere, really, with a brilliant performance. When the pressure was on three nil, I thought it was just solid from start to finish. The atmosphere was rocking at the city ground. And at that moment, even though there was concerns in the back of my mind and with the points deduction and the appeal not being heard then, I still had that fear of relegation. I also thought compared to the other three worst teams in the league that ultimately got relegated, Burnley Sheffield United and Luton, I thought that Forest would be okay, given that performance against Fulham, who have had a decent season themselves and have a very, very good squad. People will say we might have just hit them on an off date, but I think it was more than that. And also, Gibbs-White's performance, that game, signaled to me that he is something special and probably That's the one that should have been picked for the Euros with Southgate Squad announcement.

But hey, that's another topic of conversation. It could be somebody picked up in the summer, that's for sure, by another club.

But it's interesting, Max. So one thing we haven't really talked about much this season, obviously, I've talked about cohesion and nauseam, and we've seen moments of that in the last three games of the season, like Sheffield United, Man City, Burnley Stretch, where even though we lost against Man City, arguably, that was one of our better performances of the season. I'm wondering, do we know why? Do we know why Forest showed up against Fulham and Newcastle and Man United? The odd occasions when it happened, that was, I think, my frustration. It wasn't happening routinely enough, right? It wasn't like, oh, this is our model for showing up and rocking up. And that's something that would concern me going into next season. And we're probably going to get onto Nuno or whether or not Nuno is here next year. And if not, I'll be ready to roll out the red carpet for Pochettino and all that. But that would be something that concerns me. And I'm sure it's something that does concern Nuno and the team as well. It's like, what's the magic formula here? How do we make sure this team put together a run of three, four, five, six good games on the trot, as opposed to, Christ, guys, our backs are against the wall.

It's time to show up. It's like we can't be doing that. It's just too stressful.

Yeah, definitely. I think that's just a big question, and especially the consistency part. Why Forrest. And also not just the consistency with results and showing up, as you mentioned, but a consistent team selection, just consistency around the football club. It's been off the pitch as well. So turbulent with... You forget that Forest I've had a new chairman this year. You forget that they've put the club statement out. You forget that you've had the four-point seduction, that there is so much, as mentioned on the last podcast we did with Guy Mousy, which a little plug, highly recommend you go and watch after the Burnley game. Guy talked about to me how this season has just been mental off the pitch and so many things... I think actually Forest have probably been the most turbulent side off the pitch in the Premier League this season.

Yeah, the combination of things, I agree with you.

I think Everton closely follow with issues they've had, but I just think with a mixture of everything, Forest have been one of the worst. So that brings us quite nicely onto worst moments of the season. I'll kick it off and then throw it back to you, Mark, and assume what your answer is going to be. Worst moment for me would probably be... See, I'm trying to... Do you know what, Mark? You give yours, and then it might get... Because I'm just having to play between two in my head. You give yours and then come back to me.

Yeah, well, that's very straightforward. And again, I know they're going to be listeners and viewers. They're going to roll their eyes at this and be like, oh, my gosh, move on already. But the low point of the season for me was the sacking of Steve Cooper. I'm trying not to have recency bias here by suggesting that Steve Cooper is my second favorite forest manager ever. I absolutely appreciate the work Bertie Bassett did and Paul Hart and Billy Davis to a certain extent. We We've had good managers down the years. We've had more bad than good. But Steve Cooper is a special character and will forever be a special character in Forest folklore, not just because he finally got us back to the promised land after 23 years in the wilderness, but because of... It's interesting. It's really come back to me, Max, this week with Jürgen Klopp leaving and all the statements that they made, not just about the trophies that he has accrued, which arguably should have probably been more, but he He was given additional leeway because of how he conducted himself, how he connected with the city of Liverpool, how he understood the makeup of the fans and what was important to them in the terms of how they played their football and present themselves to the world.

And Steve Cooper had that very same thing when it came to the city of Nottingham and to the Gary Bolley faithful. And I really don't know that another manager has made that connection as deeply, other than, of course, Brian Clough. I mean, we could I view Paul Hart because Paul Hart obviously goes back to his Playing Days with Forest as well. But yeah, obviously, it was inevitable. We knew it was coming, right? It was the gathering. It was the dark storm clouds on the horizon. And you're like, You can't hold those back. They're going to show up, and Rainier is going to fall. And they axed fell. And so very, very sad. And I think back on that. I think, Okay, yes, we survived under Nuno, but would Cooper have found a way?

Yeah, it's the big question.

I'm inclined to think that he would have done. And then I'm like, Okay, so if you could have done, would I rather be at this point with Steve Cooper still at the helm? And inarguably, I would. So anyway, got off on a big old ramble there. Done a Dave. That's what I just did there.

Done a Dave. You We could do a segment next season. Done a Dave, where we just clipped the biggest rance up of the season. Great idea, Mark. You've just made my job easy planning for this podcast next season.

That's my low point.

Yeah, I've thought on my low point, worst moment of the season. Similar to yours, the full and defeat 5-0 was just absolutely dreadful away. I wasn't in the away end. I can remember watching it from home and it was the week that I took over the Garabody Red podcast. It was our first week It would be terrible week for Forest all around there.

Yeah.

Thanks mate. You're not the first person to say that. And I thought it'd be a nice, quiet week and it'd be quite smooth and we'll just get into it and it would be a nice week for Forest. And then that happened and then Steve Cooper departed pretty much the week after. So, yeah, that was my worst point. Just a poor team performance. Everyone at that point was thinking that Steve Cooper was going to leave. Everyone was down in the dumps and everyone thought that Forest would most likely get relegated. But there you go. Football is a funny sport. The highs and lows and there are, which brings us nicely onto players and most improved player. I feel like we're like teachers picking out the most improved school kids. But most improved player for me would probably be, I'd probably say Harry Toffalo, which is a bit of an odd one because, yeah, because Harry Toffalo didn't... Obviously, Harry Toffalo wasn't featuring for Forest that much last season. However, I just think most improved in terms of an off the pitch, almost character as well. He's been a big character around Forest in the community. We've seen the great work he's done.

And he's almost been someone that's fronted up to the media as well. He had obviously the betting allegations made against him, which was squished, and he moved on from there. And I just think in terms of off the pitch in particular, Harry Toffalo is most improved for me and continues to almost, I think, bring the goodness out of Forest and show the goodness in a way, Mark. Do you agree?

That's lovely. It's one nice sentiment. And I think it's important that actually you call out the work he's doing in the community, particularly around mental health and whatnot. It's so critical. And you're right, I think we have short memories as fans. Toffalo was in the wilderness. It really wasn't part of the plans last season or apparently this season either. And yet whenever he's played, he's... Yeah, I'm processing that. That's an interesting one, Max. And that's actually a pretty good shout. And I rubbed my eyes to begin with, but shame on me. And I don't know if there's another Forest player who has so few minutes on the field and yet manages to have a song about him.

Yeah, it's a great song as well.

I know. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, a good shout. My I think would be staying with the fullback's theme would be Nico Williams. I think he's got stronger and stronger as the seasons rolled on. I was actually really excited when Forrest signed him, now having seen him play at Liverpool. And I thought he was a rising star. It was clear, obviously, he wasn't going to get ahead of the likes of Robertson and Alexander Arnold. But I thought that was a really good, shrewd pickup, probably something to do with the Welsh connection with Steve Cooper. But he was a player that I thought would blossom given opportunity and given the minutes, which, of course, he was starved of at Liverpool because of the four mentioned players that were ahead of him in the pecking order. And I think he has grown. And I think going to international tournaments with his country as well has helped develop him and mature him as a player. And he's gone from being one of those players that you think, he has a mistake in him to be one of the most reliable in a forest shirt this season. So he'd be my shout.

Good shout. I agree. Yeah, I think Harry Toffalo, Nico Williams, almost two players that not have come out of nowhere, but almost the improved part, almost. And I just think in a way, again, as you said, they come on the pitch for a short while, they're almost reliable, and you feel in a way, they almost understand the fans. They almost understand what it means to the football club to be in the Premier League. How many times have we touched on leaders and people this season? And in terms of Forests, almost on the pitch, having those leaders, having that fight and desire for the football club. And I think Nico Williams and Harry Toffalo definitely are. Most underrated player or player that's almost not shouted about enough. You start with yours, Mark, and then throw it back.

Yeah, this is dead easy for me. I mean, there are a number of different candidates, and the before mentioned, Willy Bolley would certainly be one of them, although I don't think we've seen enough of him this season for him to merit an award. So again, like I said, this is easy for me. Ola Aina, the man we mentioned at the top of the pod, getting his contract extension. He has been incredible. Maybe he's not the most underrated, because I think if you ask to any Forrest fan, I think we'd be in unison on this one. Yeah, he's been fantastic this year. And again, one of those players who's just gotten stronger as the years rolled on. But unlike Nico Williams, where I had a catalog of games to look at and expectations and baggage that came with him. With Aina, I didn't have any of that. I didn't know what to expect. And when you consider that we have a fullback join us that played in the World Cup final, scored the winning penalty, oh, did he really? Nobody's ever mentioned Who's done next to nothing this season. And then got Alaina who's just, I think, killed it.

Yeah, that's a very easy one for me.

Yeah, good shout. Mine would be, and not underrated in terms He's not a player that's in terms of a criticism to him, but almost player that people have forgotten about of how crucial he's been. Matt Turner.

Matt Turner, yeah.

No, Matt Sels.

Hey, good lad. You didn't even tee that up with the two Matt.

Well, exactly, yeah.

It's like a comedy act. Okay, cool, right?

The two Ms, Max and Mark.

That's a good shout, though. He's fantastic.

Yeah, I think in a way, he's been so... I just think he's been crucial, and I think he's been almost overlooked in a way. And people forget how almost desperate the football club were to sign a goalkeeper and how we talked about for weeks on end, particularly on this podcast, about whether to play Vlackadimios or to play Turner. And it was a debate that people were talking about. And ultimately, both of those goalkeepers cost Forest goals and ultimately points in the season. And I think if we'd have had Matt sells from the very start, we'd have been in a much better place. A hundred %. And I think we could have had a few more points on the board. So for me, Matt Sells and Forest do not need to sign a goalkeeper this summer for me. Potentially, if you want to go out and get almost like a second choice, but I still think Matt Turner isn't a bad option to have on the bench as a US national. I agree. I just think Matt sells should be the number one. Again, we talk about consistency. Well, let's start from the back and start with the keeper.

They might need another keeper for depth, Matt, because obviously, Henses has gone out. And I think they're going to get rid of one of Turner or Blackadimos. And I would personally Obviously, with the Turner bias, would rather see Turner remain at the city ground as a backup. So they might need another keeper for depth. But in terms of a number one, yeah, you nailed it. It needs to be sales.

Exactly. Right. That brings us nicely onto player of the season, which is... I was about to say it's an easy one. It probably isn't, actually. It's going to be between two. I think we all know which two it will be. I mean, Murillo was voted officially the best Forest player of the season. I'm going to say I'm going to agree. I'm going to say Murillo. I was close to saying Morgan Gibbs-White, and look, no one's saying that Gibbs-White hasn't been such a crucial part to Forest. We would be lost without Morgan. However, I just think Murillo for almost as leadership at just the age of 21 at the back four, I watched him at Sheffield United when Forest went through a rocky spell in the first 10 or 15 minutes. And he almost looked, he made this... He sprinted back, and I think it was Broglie and Dias was one on one. And Morello made this fantastic tackle to put the ball out of play, to basically save Forest from going, I think it was 2-0 down at the time. And he almost looked over to the away and smiled as if to say, Don't worry, folks, I've got you covered.

Do you know what I mean? And I just think he's been that player this season that Forest have needed a leader. And to say the guy's just 21 years old. First season in the Premier League, phenomenal. Don't know if you agree, Mark.

Yeah, player of the season is, well, firstly, that's a great summary of some of Murillo's contributions this year. And obviously, I've already nailed my colors to the master when it comes to that young man, suggesting that he'd be one of the most sought after centrebacks on the planet here in the next five years. People are talking about him maybe moving on to another team in the Premier League, and there have been some suggestions, teams that really know more than five or six places above us. I think his sight needs to be set much higher than that. I think if he's not rolling out for a Real Madrid or an AC Milan or a PSG at some point here in the next few years, something's got horribly wrong with his career because he has it all. It's interesting, though, player of the season, Max. I don't know that I'm going to be controversial here. As we say in America, it's I'm going to throw you a curve ball. And I don't think I have a player of the season. So it is Morello, okay? It is Murillo, overall. But he's definitely... His season is ebbed and flowed.

He's had high points, he's had low points, he's done well, he's made mistakes, as you'd expect of a player of his age. But I think it's... And the more I listen to fans online and the conversation around player of the season, I think it's... Players have got good half seasons. Morgan gives why is that a really good half season. Matt Sells has had a really good half season, by virtue of the fact he came in midway through the season, right? If you look at the contribution, again, Nico Williams really got strong the second half of the same season, same with Alaa Aina. It's So I'm struggling to think of a player of the season because nobody's really been consistent from first whistle to the last. But with all of that being said, I will circle back to it is Murillo. It is Murillo because the extenuating circumstances, his age, him having to come from another country, learn another language. You talked earlier about the tumultuous season that Forrest have had. He hasn't shown up to a club where things are settled and calm and let's drip feed him into the team and let him find his feet.

Lad, get in there. Get in there and sort out that defense at 21 years old and with limited minutes, professional minutes at this point. I mean, it's remarkable. So because of those extenuating circumstances, I'm going to go with you with Murillo.

Yeah, it's an interesting one with Murillo as well. When Forest signed him, he was recommended by one of Forest's scouts, and basically the Forest Scout thought Murillo was that good. He went directly to Mr. Marenackus to tell him about Murillo. Really? Wow. Yeah. So there you go. So a big, big player and obviously someone that Forest highlighted straight away. Inarguably what fans sometimes would say a poor season of recruitment, that piece of business surely isn't alongside some other. It's been one of those where you can argue either way. It's been hit and miss. Yeah, it's just a bit like Forest, a bit hit and miss on and off the pitch. Murillo's first Premier League season, statistics-wise, I mentioned these on the last podcast, but just to reiterate How important he's been. Two assists, 77 % pass accuracy, 3.7 long balls per game, 1.2 interceptions per game, 1.6 tackles, 4.6 recoveries per game, 3.6 jewels, one, and four clearances off the line. Forest.

Two own goals. Get in there, son.

And Forest's player of the season at just the age of 21. I need to get outside more down to instead of researching those stats, which brings us onto a bit of a flip side for our last award that we're going for in the podcast, Worst Signing of the Season. Mark, over to you.

I mean, I guess I'll leave a pregnant pause here for dramatic effect. Jeez. I mean, it's Devokariki, isn't it? It is. I mean, again, when you look at Murillo and everything he's accomplished, given the circumstances, which I think do need to come in, be factored in when you're looking at player of the season. Except of, again, the before mentioned Montiel, I don't know that a player arrived at the City Ground this season with more expectation based upon his prior body of work.

Do you think Sangari is maybe a shout for the worst signing?

Sure. You can make it yours, but I I mean, yeah, it's probably a coin toss. It's probably a coin toss. But yeah, now I'm going with Origi.

Yeah, I'd probably agree. I was close to saying Sangari, but I think we need to- Also, Sengari is still going to be on the books next year, and you and I might bump into him in a dark alley.

So I don't want to get the wrong side of the fella. Origi is going to be gone.

Me neither. No, I don't fancy getting on the wrong side of Sengari. I'm glad you said that, Mark. I think, yeah, I think Divock Origi, to say that the guy, and I know we talk about Montiel scoring the winning goal in the World Cup final with the penalty, but Divock Origi scored a winning goal in the Champions League final for Liverpool just a few years ago. And he has- And he's played for some good clubs.

He has a good resume.

Yeah. And he's done absolutely nothing for Forest. If we're being brutally honest, he has been the worst sign of the season. He's been dreadful. And I just think his attitude, I just looked at him when I watched him and I just think the attitude of a professional footballer like that isn't going to help either. So sorry, Divock, you won't be missed, to say the least. There you go. Last question, not really an award, but just quickly, Mark, what does Forest need to do next season? To almost establish ourselves in the Premier League again and continue the improvement on and off the pitch, I guess.

Yeah. I mean, we could take this conversation in any number of different directions, right? We can start talking about positions that need to be strengthened, Deadwood that needs to be cut, all the things, right? We could just run the gamut here on owners need to calm down and let the coaching staff do their job. And probably let's not hire an ex-referee this next season to come and, in a bit of commas, assist us. But for me, keeping it simple and concise, whether it's Nuna or somebody else, whoever the manager is this summer, there is obviously work that needs to be done around recruitment. But I think once we feel like we have the pieces in place, what Forrest really need to do, and here it comes again, folks, is they need to create a cohesive team. To your earlier point, Max, it would be nice to know who are starting 11 are and have that be consistent. And the only change is to be based on injury or form, as opposed to, oh, my gosh, let's throw all the Scrabble tiles up in the air again and see what comes down, because this doesn't seem to be working.

I want I want to see intent. I want to know who my style of 11 are. I want to see intent in terms of the way we play, the way we're going to approach Premier League this next season. This season, for many reasons, as you mentioned, it's been all over the place, but no more so than on the field. And it's been all over the place. And so I want to see that work be done this summer, and I want to see evidence on the field in the first few games next season, because I think with that, you'll have confidence. With that, you'll say, okay, yeah, this is going to be a strong third season. For us to know what they're doing, we can see the approach, we can see the way we're trying to play. This gives us hope. We're on steady footing.

Yeah, definitely. Nice words. I agree. I've got nothing really to more. So I just want a quiet season, to be honest, Mark. 100 %. I genuinely just want a nice, quiet season. Right. That does us nicely. I think this summer we'll be back with lots of stuff.

Well, hold on a second. I got one more award.

Go on. Is it to me?

You don't ask for it, man. I'm a lot of desperate. Listeners, viewers, Max doesn't know anything about this, but I am going to say, I don't know that another professional football team in England has more podcasts associated with it than Nottingham Forest. Now, given that we are the drama queens of the Premier League, that's probably makes sense. But I have to say, best new Nottingham Forest podcast host this season is yourself, Mr. Hayes. You've done a fantastic job taking over this podcast. Obviously, the boys that were here previously did a wonderful job, built up a great listenership. But I know you've had to work really hard in transition and continue to grow that base and provide great content and value to the viewers and listeners. And you've done a marvelous job, and it's been a pleasure working with you this year. So congratulations on your award.

Thank you, mate. I appreciate that. It's very kind. And thank you to the listeners as well, because it hasn't been easy. As Mark said. It has been difficult, but thank you for sticking with us. And we are starting to almost find that consistent level. And we will do next season. We're looking forward to announce some more regulars. I'm on the scouting hunt. Mark is going to join us on a few scouting sessions, and we're going to find the next... We're going to basically find you a replacement, Mark. That's what we're trying to No, I'm kidding. Your contract is renewed for next season. We are going to be introducing some more regulars to the podcast, and we're hoping to be joined by more former Forest players next season as well. Robbie earn sure is hopefully going to be joining us in the next few weeks to talk to us about his thoughts on Forest season and just what it's like as a player for preseason and everything like that. We will keep you updated with transfers if there's any managerial rumors and things like that. So we will keep you updated in due course. Sarah will be back as well with her Q&A throughout the weeks.

And we look forward to creating more content over the summer and hopefully a quieter season next season. Mark, thank you for all of your contributions. I was about to say, we'll see you next time for our preview for Take That on Saturday because they're at the world famous City Ground. Come on, Mark. The last time I was on the podcast, she threw a song at me.

Let's not do that again. Yeah, don't worry. Because, interestingly, I'll probably know it.

Mate, I'm going on Sunday. It's going to be all right, love. Okay, mate.

That's awesome.

I won't start making you sing Have a little Patience, although we might have to sing that next season with Forest. Right. We'll see you next time. Do give us a like, share, and subscribe on YouTube. Be sure to follow us across Apple and Spotify. Podcast from me and Mark, have a wonderful summer. We will see you in the next few weeks for more Forest-related content. Come on, you reds..