I have a structure to this podcast, otherwise I'm going to make fun of your bangs the whole time.

Are you serious? You're going through something. I mean, obviously, I've said that, but they do look good.

So you're also dressed like Jon Lovitz today. What's going on?

What's happening? I bought this shirt before I did mushrooms, and then after I did them, I got the confidence to wear it. Like, did you get this at a sandals resort gift shop? Why did you not? I was getting dressed this morning and I was like, I have to wear something that Whitney can ridicule. Otherwise she will feel jilted. Never asked me to be on the podcast again. I actually made her wear this was like wear funny shirt so I can roast you.

Yeah, you did. You look like you're trying to look 15. OK, I mean, let's just break this down, you guys. I really I because I like to, you know, at the beginning of podcast release all my insecurities so that they're yours.

Oh, is that what you guys have to deal. I don't listen to this podcast. Not a fan. I skipped the first part where it's mostly you talking. OK, so I. Nice try. Cute. Very cute. I FaceTime you before and you were in my merch so let's just calm down Taylor. It was I'm so I don't like you, I'm just flirty.

I'm wearing a hat again today because I have something called a swollen salivary gland and it makes me look like I went to Joan Rivers surgeon and I'm insecure about it.

People already think that I get a facelift once a week. Right, because I finally learned how to control and I can afford good skin care. Yeah, I'll be shiny as fuck. So everybody thinks that I'm like, just, you know, gone off the rails like full housewife.

And so I'm wearing a burgundy hat to cover it up. So I'm not trying to look young. I'm trying to look less like Carrot Top, OK, making me look more like Carrot Top or bottom.

So I am wearing a hat and it does look desperate and it does look like I'm trying to be hip. Yeah, but you wore a hat on your last episode.

You're wearing what I should be wearing and I'm wearing what you should be wearing, honestly.

Yeah, that's actually true.

I'm dressed like a twenty six year old in your dress like a thirty eight year old which just love this is OK.

This is like cropped. I got this in an Urban Outfitters. I'm not going to let you do this. Isn't vintage. No it isn't. So Taylor's wearing. She's wearing. Have you guys seen the Golden Girls couch.

It's like the upholstery of the Golden Girls couch and it's in a like a button down shirt because she's fun. She's trying to pretend she's fun. I actually am. I bought this I sent this picture to like four people. It was like, does this look like I'm trying to be more fun than I am? And they're like, yeah, but we like no, it's good. I mean, it's like it's like a napkin at Senor Frogs.

Do you know what Senor Frogs at the restaurant, right.

Yeah, it's and you're like a waiter at Dick's Sporting personality.

No. That restaurant where you pay them to be mean to you. Oh that's the whole theme of the restaurant is we're going to be mean to you today. I'm dressed like Shaun White. This is basically the look I'm going for. You wore a beanie on the last episode. I know. And I think you were like trying to look like I don't give a shit that an influencer model is a guest on my body. Yes. I think that for me, when Amanda Sereni, who's a very famous model influencer, came on, I just I wore a beanie because I wanted the option to be able to pull it over my face at any moment if I felt ugly or something.

It's like a turtle just being able to, like, hide in my shell. And I did it a couple of times. A couple of times. I pulled it over my face like like, you know, an ostrich puts their head in the sand. Did you really? Yeah, I did. Because we did these like prank calls. And I get so uncomfortable around pranks. I don't like I don't like them that I just hid in my hat.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, it was like the hot pink. I only saw the clip where she's like, You're jealous of me. Oh, you haven't muted me.

No, I haven't. I will say Whitney has liked a few of my posts since I confronted you on your podcast. I've noticed you like to go well, my posts. Do you need me to like you literally.

And for you. Do you like me so much like I'm obsessed with you? It's actually weird. It's confusing to me. You told me in Denver that you're like, well, we're closer than I am to a lot of people. And I was like, what?

I think you and I are closer than a lot of people that I've spent a tremendous amount of time with. I think you and I are really inherently close.

That is so interesting because we are the same person and that is an insult to you. I take that as an insult because it's meant to be one.

I feel like we're so similar in a lot of ways and then we're like polar opposites in a lot of ways as well.

But also I'm younger and you always tell me you were exactly like this at. I feel when I'm with you, I feel like you are you are me. I feel like I'm hanging out myself. Twenty six.

Oh my God. Is that's so weird. It's so fucking weird.

But I would never wear that shirt. You never would have when you wear shirts like that. So it is interesting because I think that it's most women's instinct to be threatened by the bitch that's nipping at her heels. And there's something kind of fascinating about how I've just.

Pulled you into my bossom, right?

Well, it is it's like a very specific form of narcissism that you found someone who threatens you and you just went know you're me in the past and we're going to hang out and I'm going to keep a lid on you.

It's like it's like eating. You're the twin, the date, the other twin in the womb. Like, I'm just going to fully internalize you and consume you.

But I think there's something about you that, like, I just I didn't have. Like a big sister in comedy, don't you? Is that our relationship? I like your big sister. Yeah, you're like a big sister who never asked me how I'm doing unless it's being recorded.

I'm teaching you how to build a brand and a business you actually are. I do feel like a big sister energy here. And I'm the oldest in my family of four sisters. So it's been like actually very nice for me. Yeah. And also, yeah, I do learn a lot from you. Like, I think you are a very impressive businesswoman above all else.

You just like you're just smart about everything and you're not like you're not someone in this business who's like I'm only going to be good at this one thing and I'm going to be like totally focused on this one thing. Like a lot of people are you have sort of a million plates spinning at all times and like are always just you just think about things in a really smart strategic way. That is like, give me an example.

I mean, can I talk about the fact that we pitched her?

Yeah, we sold a show together. We're making a TV show together so we can totally talk about this. So is this sorry, I'm going to this is what she maybe she's I mean, is this too wide? Should this be tighter? Ah, we can always punch in later. This is me trying to micromanage camera angles. I mean I guess we don't need it to be that much closer, but I feel like we have a lot of a lot of space.

So this is this is if you guys want to learn about BNF, if you want to, you're doing it right now to be it good.

Be an example living example, whether you're giving a presentation, whether you're in a job interview, whether you're shooting a show, shooting your content, stop and fix it. If you see something wrong, just stop and fix it. Thank you. Because otherwise you're going to be distracted and it's going to be an elephant. The living room and everyone else is going to see the thing that you don't see.

So you might as well just call it out. Yeah, so I just did that. I just adjusted my camera angle while Taylor was talking about how good of a strategic businesswoman I am.

Yeah. An example. Oh, specifically when we were writing the show we like first off we finished, we sold a TV show. That's a big deal. It is a big deal. Thank you for saying that because I'm still like it didn't happen. How do you feel about it? I know you seem to have an odd relationship with success.

Yeah, I don't trust it. It's like literally happening.

And then when it happens, you won't trust it either, because then it's going to get taken away. Possibly, yes. Yeah. Because the last time I saw you, because last time I saw you your special had not come out yet.

The first time. Right. The last time you're on this podcast. Yes. I what I'm interested in last time you guys had we had Taylor on this podcast, her special not come out. Now it's come out. It was a big, big deal.

Did it fix everything? Are you fixed? Are you healed? You had wild success. You got to work with me. You had a special come out on Netflix that was huge. Thanks to the pandemic and your talent and your talent. The biggest thing that came out of that special was you wanting to work with me.

I worked with you. We wrote a show together. We sold it. Are you fixed? Are all the invisible wounds healed? No.

Oh, that's doesn't fix it. You know what I will say? I'm not fixed, but I am like, I think much closer to being fixed than I was before we started working together. Because this show that we were working on, the character, my character in the show is a serial monogamist who really wants to be alone for a while. And do you know how hard it is to go to work every day with Whitney Cummings? He will not, like, let you even have a minute to, like, do the wrong thing emotionally and just goes like, oh, well, you should just be doing this and not, like, be super self reflective.

Like, I think I came out of writing this show learning a lot about myself, because there were so many days that I like pitched ideas for storylines or jokes. And you were like, this feels like something that. Is that a joke or is that just something you're going through? Yeah. Are we fiction and nonfiction? What are we doing?

So yeah, I think that was a big thing, but oh specifically when we were writing the show, we finished a draft of it and you were like, I don't know what's wrong with it, I need to sleep on it. And then the next day we came back and you said we need to rewrite the whole thing with these changes. Like, but you knew you trust your gut enough to go. I know something's off here, whereas I don't think I have that.

Trust in myself, yet interesting. I mean, in my personal life or my career, I think I'm getting better at it and you're helping me get better at trusting my gut and listening to myself. You should trust my gut, not yours.

I mean, again, sometimes you say things and I'm like, not always correct. Today you need some probiotic. You're saying it like it's right. Not enough people challenge you. Like, I love Aaron Taylor.

Like I think Taylor, it's been funny to watch you be sort of conditioned to think I'm right just in terms of like just knowing of me that I'm successful and watching me from afar. And then she'll agree with me instinctively. And then I'll watch, like, you know, when your computer freezes and there's that rainbow spinning wheel and then I'll see the spinning wheel and you go, no, that's not true.

Yeah, I know I'm supposed to believe you, but yeah, because you're older than me. But you don't like people disagreeing with you. I actually I actually do if I respect them. OK, I guess you don't respect me.

I have gotten so many DM's from people, both strangers and people. I know when you fill me like in the bathroom or something who go like, oh my God, I have so much anxiety watching these stories about me filming you because they're like, oh, yours is just like crossing a boundary here. And I'm just like, look, it's fine, we're good people. It's like checked on me. They're also crossing a boundary by disarming you and being worried about you.

You're an adult, I get it. But there have been times where I'm like, you cannot post this and you post it.

And I'm like, all right. Like, fine, I guess I'll get more followers.

Well, it's actually I think it was anti Letterman who was like, so it I don't I don't I want Taylor to be famous and rich and hugely successful. You said this or anything I'm saying.

Oh, I just said that. OK, that just came out. You started with Annie. So I'm like, oh no. Yeah.

And we were doing a photo shoot at my house. I believe that Taylor has some odd body dysmorphia, body shame stuff. Been there, done it. I'll give you my old journals if you want to know what's coming next.

That would be amazing. Can we start a podcast called Whitney's Journals? I would fucking love to read them.

They're all just like tears stain. Can't even make it out. Just look like watercolor paintings. Saw another. Did they just doodles in the corner. Whitney Mathers. I wanted to be with Eminem for a long time.

And where am I going? You were going with you were doing a photo shoot at your house and I believe that Taylor's body should be public.

Tell me I.

I sense some shame around you, and I do, too. When I first started in being a comedian, I was very ashamed of being feminine. I was very ashamed of being a woman. I was meant to be think that it was like manipulative or my fault if guys thought I was hot or I was a siren or whatever, like were made to feel guilty for being attractive. Yeah. Were made to feel guilty if were a distraction to men.

It's our fault if we're sexy and I'm just I'm done with that shit.

And anyway and just business one on one photo of you in the pool and this really cute bikini, just let's get the facts.

And so I put Taylor on a very precarious table meant for Lacroix's three maximum that he could maybe hold us SPF lip balm.

Yeah, add on a good day. We did not know this was hollow. This was a hollow West Elm side table.

Had many a crack. Yeah. Saw the cracks. I put them, I put it in the pool and I was like, Taylor needs to stand on this. And I knew it had like a good five to eight minutes left of life. You knew that. I felt like I felt like we were going to get the picture and then it was going to break.

Are you serious? You knew I going to break. I was like, I know this will probably break, but like, what are the chances it's going to break while we're filming and then because God loves you. Oh, my God, it broke. While we were filming, Taylor fell into it, retweeted or posted by influencers in the wild, got a million views in the first day. Didn't look at it at all because I was like, obviously a comment that hurts my feelings.

Yeah. Oh, no. Go in any.

Letterman was like that was the most Christian ah shit I've ever seen. That was like brokering a sex tape.

What you just did with Taylor because she was like that was really dangerous. And I was like, yeah. And then I looked at my phone, I was like my legs. Six hundred. I was like six hundred thousand likes it's mine. And she was like that was sociopathic. My leg was fucked up for a few weeks. Mine worked for the jackass guys.

I mean. This is the business woman thing, bad friend, good business. What's your next book, by the way? Last one was I'm fine. This one is bad friend, good business woman. How was the process of writing a TV show with me?

Surprisingly easy, surprisingly easy. Yeah, I mean, the same way I felt about you being, you know, someone that I am friends with, I'm like pleasantly surprised.

OK, how is it writing of a TV show with me?

Because I know you don't. You've told me to keep me grateful. Yeah. Look how lucky people want to work with me.

And I know that now because all those people hate me, which is really fun.

Have you found that as you ascend to the next echelon of success, you've got negativity?

Oh, I feel like I'm getting like a lot of weird positivity that I don't know what to do with. It's like passive aggressive or is it real?

Both like, I just can't I can't tell if people like me and for what reason, interesting. Like I don't know if you like me because I have more followers now. I don't know if you like it. Has you any any fans or so you're in a place where now you feel.

I'm just obsessed with anyone listening to this podcast I think wants to achieve and ascend and and that's a mistake.

I think it's really important to manage expectations of when you get everything you want, which I think the people that listen to this podcast will, if you listen closely, Don, to Whitney, that it's it's not going to solve all your problems. It's going to just be a new set of problems. It's just gonna be a different set of problems.

And I was definitely shocked when I got what is whatever success means, ostensibly successful. And then all of a sudden everyone was mad at me or they were nice to me for the wrong reasons. Right.

And I was suspicious and I was like, oh, God, I just did this because I wanted people to love me and like me. And now everyone either loves me and likes me for the wrong reasons or doesn't like me.

That's totally backfire. That was my first impulse. Yeah. And I will say so grateful for everything. What I love about having Benton on tour with us is when we're bitching and complaining. Benton is like literally so many people would love to be where you are and you need to remember that. And it's so incredibly healthy and helpful to have that. And also from someone who's like so funny and grateful and appreciative every day, like Fent is the best band.

And any time I complain, it's like, oh, great, want to trade, right? And you're like, got it. Thank you. And I have friends like that me. So yeah my my friends are like that to where they're like, oh I'm sorry. Is it hard like doing a show with Whitney and you don't know if a couple of girls like you like shut the fuck up. Like yeah it's it is true. And if you weren't, if you weren't doing a show with me or if you weren't successful, they'd not like you for another reason.

Oh, they already didn't like me like it's so stupid. But yeah. I mean I literally asked you in Denver, I was like, is this person following me or messaging me or something because they want to sleep with you. Because with me I have a male comedian messaged Taylor.

And this is but this is about I think it's really important, like I was on a bike ride this morning thinking about what I wanted to talk to you about. And one of the main things was how we fill in the blanks is our business. How we fill in the blanks is ours.

So someone deemed you everything is a Rorschach test project or projection machines.

Right.

So you got a dime from someone and then you made up a story. You wrote the subtext, which was that someone said flirted with Taylor and she decided that the flirt was to try to get to me, even though this guy has my phone number and email and could flirt with me and my Instagram could flirt with me directly at any moment. This is what I like to call bad science. This is bad science, but bad science, intimidating.

And I'm not you know, I've known this person for 15 years. I know. But still, if we were going to fuck, we would have. But I know I just looked so good there. But but but it's important.

There's no take the judgment out of it.

You showed up to that exchange with a people are using me to get to someone else. Why wouldn't they want you?

I mean, the younger, cuter, not true version.

I am younger with bangs. I mean, you hate them. So no, I like your bangs.

We just need to work on how to style them. Are you serious? Well, yeah. They look serious right now. Well, right now they they look a little. Have you seen the. Don't do this.

Don't. I'm just telling you right now. Don't do it. Don't do it. I know what you're doing, you're doing it for. You don't have to feel this way. You're doing this for Condit when he does a thing where she just says fucked up shit because it's funny. And then we talk later and you're like, oh, no, I actually really like it. And I'm like, well, why would you say that publicly? Like, no, I'm going to call therapy with a sociopath.

I know your business. It's all business. It's being a mogul.

I never pitched a show with Whitney Cummings and you wish you could. This is what it's like. You get on the Zoome call and then she proceeds to make fun of your hair, face, body. And if she can't find anything there, she will make fun of the art in your apartment. She will find a way to demean you in front of every television executive. That is, that you will be working for pitching four years and finds a way to say something that cuts you down.

But then ten minutes later is like Taylor is the voice of her generation and you have to come out of it feeling very like weird and Stockholm syndrome. And you know what? At first it really affected me. And now I just go, no, that's yours. I know what's happening and that's you. And the fucked up thing is I learned how to stand up to from you. Isn't that funny? You're welcome. You are. I mean, you're my new dad.

I'm kind of emotional.

I do think a lot of what I'm doing is testing you and trying to make you tougher. Right. And I'm fine so that you can handle me. Right. I'm training you to fight me. Yes. And eventually I'm training. This is like, what is it? When Han Solo got killed by his own son, I feel like it is it is sad how it goes. It's oilor Hurlock. Yeah. I feel like I did training you to eventually exterminate murder.

Yeah. You want out. I'm training you to fight me at some point. Right. You've told me that you're like, I want us to get so successful. I want to have a falling out over money or something stupid like oh that would be my dream. It's so weird that you want that. And I'm just here, like trying to form lasting relationships that enrich and fulfill my life because I going and I mean, besides this pretty well.

I mean, I have left your home very emotionally, texting all of my friends that I've had for a long time going like I'm so glad we're friends because it is exhausting sometimes being in this coven you've built. Yeah. Where I'm just like, there's a lot going on here. Yeah. And like everyone here is great and talented and cool, but I am not I feel very disconnected in this space. I'm not like a group person. Yeah, I was like that.

Yeah. I'm very much like a one or two people at a time type of person. And what do you think that is? I think it's just my personality. I think I'm kind of introverted and like and I think it's important to explain what introverted means because I got the definition wrong for a very long time.

Introverted is not is that you derive energy from being alone and extroverted as you drive energy from being with other people. Right. So I used to think I was extrovert because I was like, I do stand up and I'm like loud and I talk a lot.

But that doesn't mean it's not depleting me. After I do a podcast, after I do stand up, you see me on the road like I, I can't talk for the whole rest of the night. Yeah.

You know, like I don't talk all day to anybody and then I go do stand up at eight o'clock and I'm like I and I want to.

Whereas extroverts like one of my best friends, Dori, she has dinner plans every night.

She'll do a drinks, a dinner, a zoom. She's like, she'll brief. I would be exhausted. She drives and it energizes her. It fuels her. And so I think it's not your personal preference. Like, I like being alone. It's just how you drive energy. I think it's important to delineate those when when so that you're not over mythologizing yourself.

Oh, completely. I don't think I dislike being with people. I think it's just again, it's draining me as opposed to filling me up. Yes. So when I enter a room, it's like I started a road trip where I'm like, well, I'm getting less and less gas. Yeah. And at a certain point I'm going to have to find a gas station and I can't wait till I'm on empty. Otherwise shit's going to get dicey. Like when you're around a lot of people.

It it's exhausting because you have to shape shift for each person. I ask that because that's how I used to be.

It was I like this person, like I would be exhausted in a group of people before a couple of years ago because I was like live to be small for this person. I have to be big for this person. I have to give advice to this person. I have to be funny for this person to not be funny for this person. So it was like I felt like I was constantly just like shape shifting. Shape shifting. Right.

And that was exhausting. I don't think I do that. I don't think I should. I don't either. I think I'm pretty much the same all the time. I think what shifts is, however, people. Interpret my personality or something. You have a little bit of. Do you think it exhausts you like wondering if you're doing well with the person or your word? The person doesn't like you or your word. Your presence is triggering to them because you've got successful recently.

I feel like there's a little of that. There's a little bit of that last one. Like you don't want to. I want to make people comfortable if I feel any like weirdness to someone, even if they don't think there is or they think it's just on their end. Like, I'm very direct, I'm very open. I'm just like, I need to say this. And it's not a thing that I just got to, like, get this out here.

Like and if I can't do that with somebody like I I've known whatever female comics, female actors, male comics, male, where I'm just like, oh, you're never going to be direct with me. Yeah, and that's fine. But I just don't interact with those people. Yeah. Because it's a waste of time, but it's also. Yeah, that's right. And also coming to someone with a hey, let me be direct with you.

That doesn't mean they're capable of receiving it and that doesn't mean they're capable of being direct back to a lot of people that is interpreted as an attack or a criticism and their defenses come up and then you're just in trauma response mode and then it's like pointless. Right? You know what I mean? And they're triggered and they're just like, you know, ego is running the show. But sometimes people are great and sometimes people are like, oh, I don't want to be weird to see there.

And I'm glad, like a lot of times it goes great and people appreciate it. You know what's interesting about you? What? You bring up my bangs again.

I swear to fucking God, Whitney, she was like a god damn trap. Now, what is it?

No, I mean, I just was thinking about you this morning and I just was like, what if the worst that's happened to you is that happened?

That would be so great. Probably has what if nothing's wrong? That's something we say, Allan. On we go. What if nothing's wrong? What then what? Then what? I mean, what if just for today nothing's wrong? What would you do? I don't know what would happen. Would you be OK? Could you handle being out of the woods? You keep planting trees to make sure the woods stay. You stay in the woods.

I don't think I'm planting trees to get out of the woods and start planting trees. So I don't think I'm planting trees. I think I'm just looking at the soil real hard. Like if there's a tree coming, I'm going to fuck.

Do you have the shoe is going to drop all the time. All the time. What if it dropped already?

I mean, a lot of shoes have dropped and sometimes I was like, look, I was right. And sometimes I didn't even see that coming.

Got to got to be even more visible because I think the main thing I have with you is like I have to give you the dignity of your own experience and let you learn on your own.

But there's other times where I'm like, oh, I just my biggest regret about my 20s is that I didn't enjoy it because I was so busy worrying about things going wrong. And I didn't realize that everything that had gone wrong already went wrong and that now things are actually going right. But I couldn't tell the difference when things started going right. All I did was anticipate the Damocles sword falling so I couldn't enjoy it.

And I know I hate when people say just enjoy it, just have fun. Easier said than done like I have. You know, you have twenty six years of neural pathways that have been crystallized because something, you know, your mom died when you were young. Like, of course, the worst things always going to happen like that is such a major trauma on the brain.

But I just wish that I had earlier in my life.

Not wasted so much time expecting things to go wrong. That is definitely what I've been working on the most this year, and I think the pandemic honestly really helped me with that because I was like, oh, everything can go away.

Yeah, and it's happened. Yeah.

And it's something liberating about everything going wrong fully now. Nothing's going to go wrong. Yeah.

After my dad died a couple of years ago, there was something obviously it broke my heart, but I think it kind of broke my heart.

Is my friend Nicky from college you met Nicky said she goes, you know, if you're going to have your heart broken, make sure it breaks open. And when my dad died, there was sort of like a well, it's so beautiful.

I know. Oh, my God, I shouted to Nicky. The best says, make sure it breaks open. Don't let it broke. Break inside.

After my dad, I was like, well, that's what's the worst. Come at me. Like, there's a come at me. Yeah. Thing. I'm referencing a meme because I'm young and I wear hats. It's really good that come at me, bro. It's like an anteater that's like come at me bro. Or maybe it's a panda swing.

I don't know. Huh.

Now I'm just doing my act and there's there's I just wish you had more of a come at me mentality of just like the shoes drop. Like what. Like I just want you to go down the slide. Oh, totally. No, the roller coasters, they go tick, tick, tick, tick. And you're going up, up, up, up, up, up, up. Like I feel like you're always going up, up, up, up, up, up, up.

Like when you get to go down.

When you get to go we right. Oh I, I really do kind of feel like that very recently. Yeah. That shirt is too. I mean this is your I do look like I work at a water park that's going down the slide. That's what it looks like. It looks like I got a summer job at a water park and I'm like just on my phone like, all right, go, go.

You look that looks like a shirt that in an 80s sitcom that a racist costume designer would give to the waiter at a Mexican restaurant.

I mean, I really I like it. I think it's fun. I like that it has every color in it. Like, you could have a crazy nail color. I don't right now, but it would still look like it went together. I'm super into this for you. I feel like you self-drive. And we'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah.

And you do yourself to drive a little bit and you don't celebrate enough with your clothes and life and choices. Oh, my goodness. So we've been talking to Taylor Tomlinson this episode about self care, mental health, you cannot have mental health unless you have physical health meant so much to tell me so much about my body.

Now, I just told you Daily Harvest's. Yeah, that is it.

Listen, if I. I don't don't even say anything. I'm just going to hold this up. I'm holding it up. For those of you not not watching, I'm holding up a daily harvest. What more do you need to know? They've nailed it, dude. They nailed it. It's everything healthy in a carton that's pre done. Supercute, simple pack. I'm a sucker for like Elegante me to chew packaging. It's not like embarrassing or like just doesn't look like trash.

It just makes me feel like such an adult.

I want to feel like a glowing icon. I grab one of these from the freezer.

Everything that you need in here and it's done. I'm on the go.

I feel like a mom picking up her kids at her yoga. I just seem like it makes me feel like an adult with their shit together.

It is very easy to be healthy for sure.

It also just like checks all the. It's like fast. It's simple, it's easy, it's healthy, it's organic. And I feel like I don't know, I just I feel less crazy when I eat these. I feel like I'm not a mess. You know, sometimes like you eat, you're like, oh God, I just eat like a bar in the car and you're hungry.

You don't know if you're hungry or not. And then you have low blood sugar and then it fucks up your whole day.

You don't get to eat unhealthy. That is rude to the people around you.

I'm just saying, if you're not eating well, it's a disservice to the people around you because they have to do with your moods and your low blood sugar in your bad health and you're complaining in your bad sleep like you don't get to not eat well. You have no excuse. The only excuse you had before daily harvest was, well, it's hard and it's complicated. And who has time to go to the farmer's market and get all the fruit and fair until now?

Daley harvest. No excuses. Yeah, you should be hungry. You have no excuses to be hungry.

You show up with one of those a little straw and it is a little hole for a straw in the top. That's so good. No, that's on that. That's not a smoothie once this is a smoothie.

So this is the daily harvest smoothie with Cachao and Avocado. Yeah, I'm that guy now and it's delicious.

And up with one of those people know you're ready to work. Look at this and then you just blend it up and then there's a hole for the straw.

It's like, what haven't they thought of these people only harvest and then sorry, this one is the bowl with Mulberry in dragonfruit.

I'm never going to buy a dragonfruit on my own. I don't know how to cut a dragonfruit. I don't know what to do with that.

I'm not the girl from Game of Thrones. I don't know how to tame a dragon fruit.

OK, but if you have one of those people, like, what are you drinking?

You're like dragonfruit, dragon fruit and mulberry. I guess I'm just better than you eating today, but I'm having Dragon.

You bring this to work and your coworkers like that batch and this is one of those raspberry blueberry dragon fruit and mulberry.

You just fill it with a cup of milk all three fourths of the way up to the top.

And then you can, like, soak it overnight in the fridge. You can eat it right there, you can reheat it.

It's up to you. It's your world.

And if you're someone who likes to chew food, they don't just have smoothies. They have crisp flatbreads.

Yes, there's a lot of them. So they have soups which. Oh, yeah, yeah. We're fans of soups. Yeah. The broccoli. There's a broccoli soup that is like to die for.

I mean everything they make is so good and so easy you can bring and you bring them to work. I guess people are working remotely a lot now, but you bring them, you put them in the fridge. That's I've been putting them on planes recently because we've been traveling so much.

I don't see anything on a plane so that I it's that I don't eat trash in the airport.

Just bring this so that you're not stuck eating some garbage and then you're dehydrated and you're a mess and not fun to be around.

Also, it's just guilt free on so many levels.

There's no preservatives, no added sugars, no artificial ingredients, no never even thought of it all. You just keep in your freezer. I mean, if you hate yourself, don't get it.

That is a yeah, that's a good you hate yourself, don't buy this product if they don't match your brand, if you like yourself, buy it. If you want to continue being sick and unhealthy and malnourished, do not buy this product.

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Really quick. Don't cut this out. Leslie Grossman is who taught me about daily harvest before we even had a podcast. Lesley Grossman, who is like super busy mom, friend of mine, one of the smartest people I know. She's in a lot of Ryan Murphy's shows. She was on the show popular. She put this on her Instagram and made one. And I was like, what is that? So just FYI, just true story about why this is really a product I use.

Speaking of products I use, are we just going to keep rolling through? Let's just keep rolling through. I this is not a joke. This is not a joke. I'm fully. Oh, sorry. Mona wearing my undies.

Those pants are tight. Would you not focus on that? I'm wearing my undies. Now, what I mean, I'm always very man who's realer than me doing it ad for me and he's already wearing the. I mean, it's hard not to worry when they're delivered to your house every month, isn't it? I'm just saying I have a whole basket of underwear in where I'm staying in my attic and I see all my underwear and I dig around for the merchandise.

I mean, I only have Mandi's at this point.

I've had many I have some of my old underwear and your old underwear, your ratchet ass old underwear that looks like little nasty, crusty dental floss next to me. And you're like, oh, get him out of here.

Get rid of him. Because I I've had administrators now for three years. Oh, see, I have so many underwear. I only have like seven Mondays and I Paasschen are what's the word I like pass them out to be like, OK, I'm going to wear these tomorrow, I'm going to wear these on the plane and I have something important on Friday. I got to like I'll, I'll ration my Mondays because I know they put me in a better mood.

Like today I almost put on this old like sketchy pair of underwear I had and I was like, this is a big day.

I need my Mandi's. Yeah. And there's different style. I don't even know we were reading about this ad today. There's different styles, too.

So you can really, you know, pick and choose what you find out what mood you're in. There's boy shorts and thongs and full coverage and all that.

And they also make socks, which I don't know if you ever tried the socks, but the socks are legit. The best sock I've ever worn.

It's the only thong that doesn't feel like it's song you in half because they're made of the softest material.

They're like it's like hugging your butthole are made of Mother Nature, hugging your taint.

The only mother who should be your pressing your crevices so gentle like a like a like hummingbirds put them on, you know, like, like a considerate lover.

Your your mind is just glide on to your nether regions lovingly, sensitively and bring you to climax. Emotional climax.

I think you're Mandi's might be a little different because vibrate. Because I don't do that. We end.

Is there my favorite underwear. If you guys haven't tried that the best in I honestly like it's a game changer. What. The underwear you're where it starts off your my day is totally decided by how comfortable they have.

Halloween went out now to I don't have any which ones. I mean there's a couple different options. That's funny to wear the Browns I think. On to my one one. I want one that has logos on it. So when I'm hooking up with the guy, they just know that you're going to leave. I'm yeah.

I'm about to disappear. You're dead inside. Out to go. See you. So much caution that there's a little ghost in my uterus. Yeah.

You should have those ghost underwear because they'd be so much easier than you always writing cautioned dead inside above your vagina.

Oh, man, this has a great offer for my listeners for any first time purchase shows you get 15 percent off and free shipping. No brainer, especially because they have 100 percent satisfaction guaranteed to get your 15 percent off your first pair of free shipping and 100 percent satisfaction guarantee. Go to me on these dotcoms. Whitney Mon's dotcom slash Whitney.

Another thing I've learned from you is your hair's pink, and at first I think I was like, what are you doing? Is she OK?

I'm like, it looks good, but I attach my wagon to the wrong star.

And honestly, every time I was like, maybe you Dybek for this one event and you were like, fuck you, it's good. And I'm like, it actually it was good. Like, it can be both. That's why I'm like, no, don't go there. Like, yeah, I know. This is good. So again, I've learned a lot from that. I see you like enjoying your life in a way that I don't think you have before this.

And I've only met you since you started doing it. Yeah. And I, I just thought you've been like this for a while and so it's taken. I was like you. I know it's taken me a while to go. Oh Whitney is like enjoying being successful for the first time. And I just met her at that moment and I thought, you've been like this for a long time. So it's great for me because I'm benefiting from your experience.

Yes.

Which is like someone has to be so believable. But the come at me bro mentality, I've definitely felt like that in the last year because like when I do like, what are you going to do, hurt me?

Yeah, like that's my thing. What is the worst that can happen? It's like, you know, and we'll talk about, you know, dating and relationships in a second. But it's just sort of like, what are you going to like. That's my thing. What do you break my heart. It's broken. What are you going to hurt me? I'm hurt. Warn me. I'm fucking wounded. Like, bring it. Yeah, I think and there's for those of you that that are sort of resonating with this mentality or feel at all like connected to this.

There's the tools.

Phil Stutts and Barry, I can't remember his last name, Phil Stutts, who are amazing, like psychotherapist's, super famous. He had a great episode of Maron that we've referenced on the show before. They wrote a book called The Tools. It's a little bit corny.

It's a little bit like if you listen to a podcast, you're probably way more advanced than some parts of the book. But there it's all these like mental tools on how to have perspective and gratitude and live more in the present. Like one of them is the deathbed exercise where you imagine yourself on your deathbed and like what choices you would make if you were on your deathbed.

And one of them is called the reversal of Desire, where you actively crave the very thing that you fear so that you just get it and visualize moving through it. Right. So you just it's interesting. I mean, after I read it, I found myself doing the exercises. I mean, it seems lame because you're basically like, I want to be cheated on.

Like, you have to, like, say it out loud and like, yell it and and crave it. And it's a really powerful exercise because it makes you realize, like, if the worst thing that could happen to me happened, like I'd still be OK. Oh yeah. And that the fear of the thing happening is so much worse than the thing happening.

Yes.

So I remember like when I had a situation where I was in a bad relationship shocker of the day and or whatever it was, it was it wasn't bad at the time. You don't know it's bad when you're in it necessarily. It was what it was. And I got so many gifts from it. I like to call my bad Santa Clause because they just gave me so many gifts.

Oh, and you worship them blindly and they only came once a year. Yeah.

And and they had a life and they lived with children and they work for that. They didn't have a real car, and so I remember talking to my therapist, Georgia, who I you guys know, and.

She was like, let's just walk through the worst case scenario. It's like he's going to leave me, I'm going to leave it whatever, and we just walk through it and you, like, visualize yourself going through the thing you're so scared of.

You're like, yeah, I'd be fine if that happened. Yeah, that's the weird thing. It's the amorphous, vague fear of what could happen as soon as you get specific going. OK, the worst thing that could possibly happen to you is. Right now. What I get kidnapped and held in a basement for 22 years and have to have my captors babies, do you have your phone? Can you live stream it? Oh, that's pretty bad.

So you don't like this fucking wi fi?

This isn't going to work out. This will not sell the tools book. I can think of the worst thing. There's no Wi-Fi in the car. The worst thing is that happens to one of my family members and we never find them and I never know what happened to them. I took the the vow is doing very well on HBO on that. Is that what happens in the van? Do we get to make a documentary at the end if it were someone else?

Yeah, if you want to think of it that way. If you want to be all Christian about it and it's part of God's plan. Our biggest fear is that you will get kidnapped. No, I have a lot of my biggest fear is that something will happen.

One of my sisters, that's when one of my biggest fear and because your mom died so young that in your hippocampus like that makes sense. That tracks. Yes. Yes. But think about the problem.

This is where I go with that. When my after my my mom and my dad had strokes the same year, which is like pretty the probability of that happening is pretty low. Yeah, that's so to me. I just, I just get into math. I just go like your mom died when you were eight. Like, what are the chances your sisters are also going, you know what I mean?

This is like, who do you think you are that you're going to be the outlier? Then I just go like, oh my God.

Maybe my fear that I got honestly, mom has transmuted into me thinking I'm constitutionally, like, special, like, I going to be the one that likes whose mom died to date and then whose sister died.

I feel the opposite way. I feel like I'm not I know that I'm not special and life is random. And I grew up thinking that it wasn't. But what are the mathematical chances? I like to just go now because feelings are not math. Feelings aren't facts. They're bad feelings or just bad math. Yeah, horrible math. And so for me, I'm just like it feels like my sister could die at some point.

Right? Well, I wouldn't let my brain is designed to protect me. And given what's happened to me, that makes perfect sense to my monkey brain, my monkey mind.

But like mathematically, what are the chances.

Yeah. You go this could happen. Yeah. It makes sense that I'm worried about it, but worrying about it is isn't going to help anything and in fact it's going to make you sick. Right. And Agio. Right. Faster. Yeah. And I just I find it maybe this isn't for you walking through something like that. Yeah.

Helps me because I just go like yeah I'd be OK, but let's do like more fun fears, like, you know, like one of my biggest fears is that I would like fall in love with somebody and I would be wrong about them and like lose who I thought was the love of my life.

And like that happened to me a year ago. Yeah. And I am so grateful now. I was grateful, like two months after that, I knew who that person was and I didn't marry them and all these things. And that was my worst possible fear. And it gave me such a come at me bro mentality going into my next relationship where I was kind of like. You know, if something horrible happened, which it didn't, but I was like, if something horrible happened, I could handle it because I just did the worst, hardest thing.

And the thing I was most afraid of and the most like obsessively trying not to make happen like I was I was trying to be so perfect in that relationship every day, all the time. And when it fell apart, I was like, oh, I made it about me. I was like, well, this is my fault. I could have been doing more. And I'm like, you literally couldn't have given any more blowjobs.

But like, I just, you know, I just maybe that's what would fix my salivary glands.

I have a blocked salivary gland and I need more saliva. I'm I have a house.

I'm easy. I give I give blowjobs in my vagina.

You're very efficient business model.

But, yeah, that was like my biggest fear is that I was going to find who I thought was like my soulmate and then I would lose them. I guess I was wrong and it happened. And I was like, oh. And then two months later I was dating somebody great who I connected with really deeply and like, you know, had more experiences that I wouldn't have had otherwise. And like my special turned out better. And I worked on myself more.

And like, you know, there's just yeah, the more shit you go through, the more evidence you have to point to that, like, I'm going to be fine if more fucked up shit happens to me. But it's also the same way.

It's like the harder you trade in the gym, the better your butts going to look, the harder your relationships are assessed. With my the I am obsessed with your. But the it's like it's like it's like we should call the my H.R. department in my house.

I should have your frankly.

I'm just saying it's like, you know, what really helped me on my journey was that comparing working out in the gym, exercising and how it changes your body with the work you do on your brain and how it changes your brain, you know, so it's like if you are going hard in relationships and practicing relationships, it's all practice dates are all it's all just look at it as practice.

Look at it is training. The harder you train, the better your body, the stronger your body is going to be. The harder you train in relationships, the stronger your mind is going to be. And the more evidence you're going to have and the more proof and the better you're going to get to know yourself. Like you cannot look at relationships as failures. It's all just practice.

Yeah, yeah. This is practice. I'm not religious anymore. But one thing that they did say, like, I don't know if it was youth group or church or something at one point was when you pray for patience, God doesn't give you patience, he gives you opportunities to be patient. Interesting. Which I think is basically what you just said, which is just you have to treat everything as practice, like you can't get better at being in a relationship without being in a relationship.

That's right.

But you also need to practice calling it when needed to call it.

So I think for me, I was thinking about you because, well, if I had this situation recently, you've seen me dating, you've seen it's wild.

I it's a lot for someone who has read so many books.

Oh, shit.

What have you learned. What have you got. What have you gleaned. I have seen you in two very I've only seen you in two different things. Yeah.

And it has been polar opposite. Polar opposite. So which is interesting because I think, I think, I think we should talk about this really. Can we I mean I don't want to get into too specific, but you talk about I don't get I mean, at this point, I mean we can edit at this point.

Trust me, I, I last night was thinking about this and I got emotional and I'll probably get emotional if I think about it now, which is that sharing my personal life, my private life, like writing a book about having eating disorders and like all the stuff I recently shared something on a podcast about love addiction and my experience with that. And I believe it might have made something weird with someone I'm dating because they don't know what the definition means or whatever and or not it might have made something weird.

It might not have.

There was a little bit of a weird reaction to it, and I had this fear that it's like, oh my God, do I overshare?

And is this going to be doing this podcast and sharing all these intimate details about my life, which I do because I want to be able to be of service to people and I want to be able to be the person that I wish I had when I was younger.

Like, I wish I just am trying to make the podcast that I wish was available when I was 20 and trying to figure shit out and and am I doing this at the expense of my own personal life.

Right. Maybe, yeah.

On the other hand, you're trying to destroy our friendship now, which is supposedly very important to you. You mean business partners, right? What's the difference? I am obsessed with you.

I really do love you. And then I vacillate and I go, well, if this scares this person off, then I don't fuck with you. Don't fuck with me. I'm fine. Like, if if this scares you off bytecode, you know, because I am always torn and I think anyone at any level of social media, whether you have 10 followers or 10 million followers, like, we should be careful with what we share. Yeah. For professional reasons and personal reasons and be careful and take care of ourselves and protect ourselves.

Restraint of pen and tongue is a form of self care. Not everyone needs to know everything all the time.

It gives sick people just weapons to hurt you later.

Or it can just expose someone to your vulnerabilities too soon. Or you can trauma bond with somebody. That's sort of a thing I want to talk about with you. I, I truly believe I wish I'd known this in my 20s that when you were dating someone, start dating someone, do not share too much too soon about your traumas, about your alcoholic dad, about your break ups, just like save it. Save it like. No, but I have a podcast.

So if I say that to you guys, do as I say, not as I do. And I'm because otherwise you're going to trauma bond with that person and you're going to get a false sense of intimacy. If on a first date you're like and my sister is in jail and my I had this assault in my life, it's like it's too much information. Too quick. Yep.

And the person is going to. Maybe pity you or feel sorry for you, and then there and then you're always going to wonder, are you just with me because you feel bad for me? You're getting a false sense of intimacy. It's just it's not appropriate. It's too much too soon or you're just giving people too much of yourself before they've earned it.

That's right. Now, do they pity you? But they're like, oh, my gosh, this person feels so close to me. And it's like, no, no, I'm trying to feel close to you because I desperately want to feel close to someone.

And you don't want to feel too close to someone too soon, because then after a first date, they they're probably still dating other people. Right. You don't know what the fuck's going on. You don't know who they're following. You don't who's commenting on their shit. And then you're setting yourself up to be victimized later because then you've shared all this stuff. Two days later, you see that some girl's comment was posted. But I shared all this stuff.

But there was so much of me that was your fault. You shouldn't have shared all that. Yeah, they didn't ask for that. Hold it. Yes.

And, you know, have restraint of pen and tongue and do not overshare like that is something that I wish I knew younger. But I'm really being circuitous to get to this.

So you've seen me in two different things. I'm oversharing. And if the person here is this Phuket, which one?

I'm fine being alone. Honestly, let me know if it's offensive. Just Cher, you don't have to go and I'll be fine. We know the house. I have a fine. I have pink hair. I have hats. You're doing great. Like everyone knows that. I just I'm like a little bit at a point in my life. And I don't know if it's something that you should learn from or the people listening can learn from, which is just like.

I don't know if I've already exposed too much of myself. I might have that ship might have sailed, you know, because I personally just like I don't want to have secrets. That's part of why I started a podcast like and part of why the podcast is what it is. I just personally don't want to have secrets from anyone.

And I found myself feeling a little bit ashamed of the thing that I shared on social media the other day, that this person kind of had a weird reaction to, like, you know what I like you're in or you're out.

Did you share that you had been a love addict, love, lovely person. I just what love addiction is like. I think something that's really misunderstood love addiction. I think a lot of people think it's like they're in love all the time. That's that's not true.

Love addiction is essentially when you're in relationships you can't get out of you can't extricate yourself from them because it's become addictive in some way. So it doesn't mean like you're constantly in love. Most love addicts, whatever they're doing is not love. It's chemical addiction. You're recreating your childhood circumstances and you're stuck in something. So the way that I like to define addiction is, you know, when your life becomes unmanageable and when you when something stops being fun and so that's when something becomes an addiction.

Right. So when someone's like drinking a marriage, it becomes an obligation instead of as fun. So the whole point of heroin and cocaine is supposed to be fun, but then you're addicted to it when it's like you're just doing it because you have to to check this neurochemical box. And it's not even fun anymore. Right. That's an addiction. What comes an obligation? You're not even getting those dopamine hits. You're just serving your tolerance.

Yeah. So and you can't it stops being a choice, stops being a choice.

So if I choose to have Rosie on a Sunday. I'm a normy, if I have to have that Rosie at two o'clock or else I'm going to get a headache and I'm going to be angry and, you know, I'm going to start yelling at people. That's when it's an addiction. Right.

So for me, if I can't choose to leave a relationship at any point, that's bad for me. That's not serving me. That's hurting me. That's when it's an addiction, because I don't I can't leave. So I've been in relationships where I'm like I feel stuck because of my codependents. I feel like they're hookstratten me. If I leave, they're going to fall apart. Mm hmm. They can't live without me. They need me. This is all these are addictive thoughts.

They need me. I'm going to hurt them. They're going to kill themselves. Whatever that nonsense.

I don't I'll I'll be alone or I'll.

Yeah, well, I'm too old. Yeah. This ship has said I might as well just stay all fall apart. I'll fall apart or like you start doing the math of like I remember and when I was dating Santa Claus I would, I was like well I'm thirty two and like by the time I meet someone else is me two years and then I'll have a baby like you start doing that timeline shit. Right. Which the socially constructed shit and biology biology sexist.

So when you start rationalizing, minimizing, justifying why you should stay in something that has nothing to do with wanting to be in it and feeling good. Right. So that's what that's an addict. That's love addiction. Doesn't mean you just fall in love with everyone that you see on the street. That's not a love addiction as it's.

But you are always looking for that and trying to create that with people. A toxic relationship. Yeah. Right. Now, isn't that being a love addict?

Because you can be in a relationship like that and be addicted to a relationship and not be a love addict? I feel like love addicts have a pattern of doing that over and over and over again because they're so scared of being alone. And like, if I'm alone, I'm worthless, I'm going to fall apart. I was single. I didn't date for two years. Like, interesting. Yeah, you can it's when you're in the relationship, what happens.

It's not that you're always in one. So it's like being an alcoholic when you're not drinking.

You're, I guess, still an alcoholic, but you're not an active addiction. It's when you're when you start to drink, that's when it becomes a problem. So for me, it's like I after I took like two years off of dating and sex and everything, like I just like took a break and I was like, I want to date you. I want to date you. Like, I was like super cool being on my own. It's once you enter into the dance in the neurochemical, start firing and your childhood circumstances start being recreated that your inner child comes out and then you kind of are just like in the ring and can't get out.

Right. We say it's like it's like being on the dance floor, like you're on the dance floor and you just can't get off the dance floor. But it's like anything that's like being addicted to caffeine or sugar or anything. If you take a year off caffeine. Yes, you're like, I'm great, I don't need it. But then as soon as you start becoming dependent on it and I'm like, oh, this is you have to just know that's a problem.

Once you're in it, you don't see the way out either like or see someone that's in a relationship that's like so clearly bad. But they don't see it. There's just no doors. Yeah. It's just no doors, that's all. It's like I'm in the ring with you and I just forgot that I don't know how to just walk away.

It's right when someone's in active addiction with any kind of chemical, which is why it's taking me so long to have patience with it, because you're like, why did you stop drinking? It seems so obvious. Yeah, because I don't get chemical dependencies like I just seems so obvious to me.

Like, well, if you can't if drinking is a problem, just stop drinking. Right? Love is a chemical love as though you have a chemical.

We call it the internal drug cabinet. Yeah. So the dopamine. I know the internal drug cabinet. So like are you using. So there have been times that I've been relations. I'm like, oh, I'm just on drugs. Oh yeah. Oxytocin and all these. And we talked about it. I'm talking about something I guess a lot, but like, no, if this person is a drug dealer, are you with a drug dealer or not?

Yeah.

And for me, a lot of my bad relationships is like, oh, you're just like a drug dealer and I'm chemically dependent on you, which is part of the reason that now I don't sleep with someone.

My new role is like 12 dates about right. So if she sleeps with you before that, I don't really like you.

No, no, I don't see myself getting chemically dependent on you. Yeah, too short.

The two things I've seen you in are one that was very casual for you and possibly not for the other person. And that was hard to watch.

Really bad for them. It's this it's I think, and the other and then the other, which is more recent, which is the first time I've ever seen you impressed by literally anyone, literally anyone.

You're like, oh, everyone listening is like but she's impressed by people who come in here. But guess she's not the first time and you almost fucked it up. I watched you almost fuck it up because you were just like, I don't know, like you started doing all the things I do, but you were just chastising me for, which is like this person might just be using me. This person, you know, is not responding in the way I want.

This person isn't as invested or doesn't get it or doesn't see me filling in the blanks, filling in the blanks before this person even understands this person being so direct with you. And like, I'm on face time with you, watching you freak out and say, I've never seen you freak out. Well, here's what you saw, which was adorable that I think is really important. You saw my inner you you get my inner child. Yes. And because you're used to unhealthy people, like all of your feelings are so valid because of what you've been surrounded by, you know, what someone kicks up in you.

So it's like if you know, I am my attachment strategy, which you guys know Google at, is you're listening like, you know, I get anxious, preoccupied if someone is not anxious, preoccupied with me. So if someone is anxious, preoccupied with me and needs my validation, needs my attention, I get dismissive. Yeah, a more layman's way to put it is like if someone likes me too much, I just get I feel secure and then I kind of get bored.

Right. It's like I got you. So I don't need to chase you or wonder about you. I'm not saying any of this is good. This is just the way that I'm wired.

But if somebody if I project that someone is not available, it kicks up my dad shit, which is like I have to work for your approval.

I have. And I don't like saying daddy issues, people have to stop saying that, it's just it's too vague, it's dismissive, it's pejorative. I don't like it. It's really ruining the word daddy.

Maybe less sexy and bad to say you totally ruin that word. So I don't call babies babies.

I call them infants. I want to say, baby, because you want to say baby in bed. Yeah. I mean, babies have ruined the ability to sexualize babies. Yeah, it's like fucking song guys.

Like now I'm a pedophile. Fuck. I just want the guy fucking to be a baby.

Now, I can't say that say daddy, but I think it's important to just know like what comes up in you. And when I get I mean the word triggered.

I love Andy Letterman. Does this joke about how since we're all like just giant five year olds when she says trigger, she says Toogood the way a kid was? I know it's like a good I'm just like I'm Toigo, like say it like that just to remind yourself that your inner child is actually what's freaking out, not your old self.

But when there is an absence of communication or what I perceive as an absence of communication, if someone like, kicks up that familiarity.

Right, we like pattern recognition, like, oh, I know this pattern, which I don't hear from someone constantly because they're not an addict and they're not smothering me and they're not constantly available. I go into inner child mode and.

Sadness comes up, I have so I have such a fucking deep well of sadness that when someone triggers the feelings that I felt when I was a kid, whether they want it has nothing to do with them. They didn't cause it not there. If I'm crying, it has nothing to do with you did like nothing, but like you were on the phone with me or we were face timing or something and I was texting with this person and he like something about like not being available the day that I thought they're going to be available.

And I just started bawling, crying for like an hour. It just it like triggered a deep well of sadness. Yeah. That had nothing to do with them. And I, I really like to use the word unresolved. I was like, this person is helping me process some unresolved shit, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, all right, on this episode, we've been talking a lot about how to improve yourself, how to not go to the problem for the solution, how to not go to your relationship or your business problem or family problem.

And we'll keep talking about it till we figure out how to stop doing it.

I'm just saying, don't go to the problem for the solution. That's a big theme on this podcast. But better help is a place you can go. That is a way, better place to go than your problem.

If I have an issue with Ubuntu and I don't go to you never, which would never happen.

I would go to better help first talk it through with a licensed professional and they would say, we love it. I don't understand. Yeah, exactly.

And I haven't ruined our relationship by being like, I'm mad at you. They'll go into your fucking crazy vengeance, the best revenge.

And if that was the response, I mean, any any licensed professional would give that advice.

Within under 48 hours, you can start communicating. It's not a crisis line. It's not self-help. It's professional counseling done securely online. So for those of you that are like, I want to get better, I've read a lot of books, I want to improve my life, I want to stop these addictive behaviors. I want to stop being in bad relationships. Now is the time to take that step, if not now, when.

And the thing that really cool is that they really cool to make sure I get real specific.

I know it's really awesome that they match you up, but they match up with like professionals that match your needs, which is the hardest part about finding somebody to talk to is you're like, I don't really vibe with that person. Understand what I'm talking about.

They don't get what it's like. I have female problems. I want a female. I want a male there. I want to talk about sex stuff. I want to talk to someone, you know, like just you should be able to choose.

See, that's cool, right? Person. You want very cool things for the specific adjectives about it. I was thinking more like helpful, salubrious.

That's a word we all use. Better health wants you to start living a happier life today. Therapy is a very complicated thing to have to schedule and book and drive and get there. They take all of the stress out of something that it's on your time.

Yeah, it's supposed to alleviate stress and better help has figured that out so far.

More affordable than traditional offline accounts. Yeah.

Which and financial aid is available, which is really that's amazing because sometimes our biggest problems come from financial insecurity. All of our problems come financial visit.

Better help dotcom Whitney. That's better help HP LP. Sometimes we talk too fast and don't say that and you guys think it's better hip and you're googling better hape. What's better heap better help Dotcom join the over one million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional.

In fact, so many people have been using better help that they are recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states.

I'm available. They closed the website. I'm absolutely available, just f why I special offer for good for you listeners. They get 10 percent off your first month at better help. Dotcom. Whitney, you love Brooklyn.

Dude, I am a plush bitch. I like the finer things in life.

Getting out of the shower. Oh, grabbing a Brooklyn and towel wrapping it around your basem.

Listen they are nice towels. I'm just they are fluff. There's nothing for and they wash really well which is very important.

Oh because I have to tell you, washing it just shrivels up at the end or the stuff doesn't wash out of it because it's such low quality.

And what I do is after I put my makeup on, I then wipe my hands with all the foundation on it onto the towels.

Shocking experience.

It looks like you did you shit on that placenta and so everything washes out of it, which is probably not something that Brooklyn is trying to lead with.

And they keep their there. They're like absorbency in there so they don't become sandpaper.

All of a sudden you feel like a princess. They're just like that moment when you get out of the shower, it's like in the morning you're like rushing, you're like trying to get on with your day and then your towel sucks. So it hasn't wiped off all the and then you're hot, you're cold, and then you put your clothes on and you're still wet and you're closer, damp. And you're just like it's just like the worst feeling.

There's nothing more annoying than a towel that doesn't actually dry off your body in these towns work and then walking wrapped in your towel, walking to your Brooklyn.

And she was so like the stalker that's looking through your window is like, damn, she has good taste in towels.

Yeah, I can't kill her. She's luxury the sheets. I mean, who's more who who cares more about sheets than me. I don't know.

But I know that these sheets have made me like sheets. But also I'm excited to wash the sheets. I put them back. Eighty five percent of your life in your bed, you spend more money.

I spent ninety eight percent of my life in bed. I'm just saying, like, you have your sheets, they go to bed at night, your sheets are the last thing you hit. And when you wake up in the morning, you start your day on the right foot. It took me thirty eight years to realize that the most important investment you can make are good sheets.

Yeah, you want to improve your living space and impress people. Just get a nice pair of sheets and impress yourself when you lay down.

You shouldn't be getting, you know, like rug burn from your sheets and nothing makes me feel better than walking in my bathroom and seeing that shelf of matching towels.

I am like Martha Stewart. What am I, the queen of Time magazine this month? What's happening?

And then I go to my bed. I'm like a puffy white comforter. Jesus, do I host an E new segment? Who am I drink. I must be on The Real Housewives. This house is luxurious slip. That is what that is like.

Such an important part of like building self-esteem is investing in self care items and investing in the things that only you benefit from spending money on. Sometimes, trust me, only I benefit from my best.

I'm doing only things that you see. We spent a lot of money on crap to try to impress other people, spend money and press yourself, see what happens, see how your life changes when you have a sexy pair sheets in your bed.

Watch out. Watch how your life transforms much. All of a sudden, nobody's good enough for you. I mean, they have it all.

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You need to live your most comfortable life. So sometimes if you're in a relationship and it's bringing up feelings like you can just thank them for, like, you know, helping you work through unresolved shit.

So I think that's what that was.

But also like, yeah, I when someone's healthy and not in constant communication with me because they're not addicted or not obsessed or not infatuated, I feel rejected and abandoned.

And it's so fucked up because we've talked about this before.

Like if someone is too smothering up top, then I never trust the intimacy because I'm like, well, you're like this with everyone. You're just kind of a sex addict or like this is just my defenses. And then, like, it doesn't feel special. And as soon as you're out of my sight, I'm just going to think you're doing this to someone else. I know that you're going to if we don't hang out for the weekend, I'm like, well, it only takes him like a couple of days to fucking be super close to somebody.

Right. So if they move quickly, they'll be getting late dating me. I'm just saying, if you move if the person you're with moves too quickly with you, right. Then you're always questioning them because you're like, well, they move quickly with everybody and they're going to move quickly when I go out of town with someone else.

Interesting.

Like, you want someone to move really slow in the beginning so that when you're together, you don't have to worry about them when you're not with each other, I think.

Yeah, even though it can be fucking painful, right? Yeah. I mean, I feel that way.

I think I feel that way more sexually, but that's probably just like old religious stuff where I'm like that was something they said is like in church where they're like, if somebody has sex with you before they're married, do they have no self-control? And you're like, what? But I think there's there's something in that 12 date thing where you do feel like a false sense of intimacy. If you maybe sleep with someone you like really quickly, if you're that type of person, you can't think like that.

But I think we look, I am here.

How long do you wait to have sex with somebody if you want to date them?

I usually the shortest amount of time I've waited is like a month. So. Yeah, I mean, that's good.

That's good. That's pretty good. Only I've only had sex with like one person I didn't love yet and I hated it. Interesting. What I've realized recently about myself is like every relationship I've had for the most part has been a reaction to my last relationship.

So that's why you have to take time off after you date. Yes, you do need to. Here's my here's where I think I think when you first start dating someone you like, you should start dating other people.

Interesting.

OK, so if I on Monday and you have to have plans with your girlfriend stuff on Monday, you have a date with someone you really like. The next two nights you should have plans with girlfriends that you do not fucking cancel and then a date with another person, even if you don't like them that much to take the pressure off. Right. And so that you're not putting all your eggs in one basket and you're not putting everything on them, and then you can see them again like four days later.

This whole I'm not saying it's right. I know I loved the movie Blue Valentine. I would love to be able to meet someone and just fucking spend play ukulele in the road. Yeah, it just yeah. That's not four days straight.

It's just not healthy. You overdose on somebody like if you really like someone, you should not spend too much time with them. The first week that you're meeting and hanging out this whole like we go out on a Monday and then we hang out till three in the morning and just like talk about the universe and what are you doing tomorrow? And then you meet up at five and then you have dinner and then you're and then the next day you have brunch and you're hanging out.

It's just you're going to start resenting each other because you're gonna start giving things up and you're not going to go to the gym. You're not going to be eating well, you're not going to be hydrating. And you're not giving it a fair shot because you're overdosing. You're oversaturating yourself the other person.

You have to tease it out, move slow. Yeah, I think that makes sense to me. I'm thirty eight and single. I know what I'm talking about. She did it.

No I. I don't ask you for marriage advice. I go to Rundfunk Astatke you. That's all I ask for advice. No but that is the number one mistake I see people make is they just move too fast and they can, they like it has bad PR they marketed is like you know or perceive it as like passion or soul mates and all that shit. Like if you're passionate about something and your soul mate with them, like they can wait three days if it's meant to be.

Yeah.

I will say I don't I have never been the type of person who has like the bandwidth to date more than one person at a time.

I just don't know how I could do that.

Like, you have to just take go on a date, just pressure off that person. But I think that's just being fine on your own and being really busy and being happy with work.

So there's not a lot of pressure to have work or friendships or something. And absolutely, I think that's true. I'm agreeing with you and I think that what.

Part of this aforementioned coven that I'm developing of all these like girl friendships is for the first time in my life, I'm experimenting with how to get my experiments.

You've got you here. This is like this is what it's like to be friends with Whitney. Everyone's on her Instagram, like, oh, my God, giving me life. All these girlfriends. We're an experiment at her house. It's just, ah, putting us in her swimsuits, taking photos of us to see how long it's going to take us to become a dictator. Wait till you start mining you for your organs. Truly. She's like she's training us to be surrogates.

She made us do laps last time we were here. She's like now I remember ten dropping contractions. It's a fun game. I just want to make you guys ready so that you could take care of me. I'm going to develop a cult and start just commissioning you. Whoever holds their breath the longest gets to come on my podcast.

You're a lot.

Thank God. I but like, you're the best. But also. Oh my God, I'm so romantic. Anyway, you're experimenting with friendship. I'm just experimenting with how to get my emotional needs met other ways besides relationships with men. Because my whole life it's you have girlfriends, you have work, but as soon as a man comes along, you brush them all to the side. Right. And your man has to service one hundred percent of your emotional needs.

Interesting.

Hasn't worked out so well. That's what you've been doing. That's what I was sort of programmed to do and talk to about that guy and then come first, my therapist or I or him. I need to talk about you to you. Yes. I would routinely go to the problem for the solution. I thought if you got in a fight with your man, you go to your man to deal with that. No, you go to your girlfriends, you go to your program, you go a 12 step program, you go to your therapist.

Whatever it is, you don't go to the problem for the solution. I didn't know that. Right. I did not. You have sisters. I think you probably have a healthier relationship with women than I did. I didn't have a healthy association with women for a really long time. And then a lot of my friends were guys. And I thought for a while, like, oh, the best way to get advice about guys is from guys, which I still believe and a lot of ways.

But I also had inauthentic, authentic friendships. I had the girlfriends that wouldn't give me good advice.

They would be like, I think you just likes you too much, right? Like his phone's probably broken, like that type of shit.

Now, I have girlfriends that are like, yeah, it's not working. You know, they'll tell me the truth. They're not scared of me. So I think for me, I'm in a big reorganisations moment in my life. Like you talked about losing friends earlier. We talk about this a lot on the podcast.

Like I think we have to update our software every year and make sure the same way we update our phones, our computers, like, is this still the best version of my friends circle is still the best version of my, you know, professional circle. Like, you just have to refresh every now and then.

And I think that I'm going through a little bit of a sort of I'm moulting interest and trying to have more female friendships in my life, especially with equals. That's the other thing. A lot of time.

Why am I here? Yeah, it's a good feeling. I think the stronger your relationships are with good girlfriends, the better your romantic relationships are going to be because you're not going to try to get all your needs met from that person, even though I think it's my instinct, at least my programming to as soon as a man comes along, your girlfriends see at the wedding interest, you're my bridesmaids. See in a year and a half.

Yeah, I don't have that. I think I lean on my girlfriends a lot when I'm in a relationship. I see them less because you always see people less when you're in a relationship.

Yeah, but. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be leaning I'm going to be leaning on someone for my emotional needs, so let's divvy this up.

I do, though, feel like sometimes you do go engage with a partner more than usual.

Yes. Oh, I think that's absolutely true. Going to the problem for the solution. Yes. That's something I think about a lot that you've said.

And I think because I think about you sometimes and I never would have known this at twenty six or so wildly ahead of me. So none of this should feel disparaging. But like it took me so long to realize that silence is the only language men understand and vice versa with women, men with women, too, like you could not dignify certain things with a response. Right. And I think that because you're so smart and you're emotionally very mature, that we think that if we're just more clear and direct, the other person's childhood will change.

Well, there's a quote for you. It just doesn't work that way.

And I think that we're at this self-help moment with Instagram and podcasts and stuff, we're like, oh, my God, I know how to express my feelings. And like, I know how to talk through things and I'm so emotionally mature and I'm going to mean what you say. Say what you mean. Don't say. I mean, I'm not just because you're being clear with the person and direct and mature doesn't mean the other person has the mental equipment to receive what you're saying.

Right.

Well, and just because somebody is aware of something doesn't mean it's going to change overnight in the same way that just because we're aware of our shit doesn't mean that we're going to handle everything perfectly. Like think about how much we talk like, well, and this is what it is. And it's our attachment style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we meet someone we really like that doesn't make their dad have said, I love you. So it doesn't our self awareness hasn't fixed us.

Why would it fix someone else. Say it again. Our self awareness has not fixed us. Why would it fix someone unless we fix need a sound effect. It doesn't magically fix things. I think it's taken me so long to just realize that, like, time takes time and knowing the solution for you doesn't fix everything. Yeah. And, you know, it's so interesting because for the men listening, I think this is important, too, because this is going to make you like me more.

I'm about to lose all my female subscribers, but it's taken me so long or I think women so long in general to like find our voice and be able to stand up for ourselves and be able to set boundaries and to be able to, like, be strong women or whatever that means.

But like now I'm saying you found your voice. Great. Now stop using it. Stop talking so much. Just stop like half of what you just like. Cut everything you want to say in half and then cut it in half again, like it just just don't say it. You can't take back you can't take it back. Yeah. Once you've said it and the more you say, the more shame you're going to feel later that it didn't work.

Yeah.

And that is what erodes your self-esteem and your self worth. Right. As I just said, all this stuff and it didn't work. Now I'm embarrassed. Now I failed. Yeah.

You know, I'm saying I wasn't enough.

Like, that's what I've learned in the last year in relationships is like someone else's actions don't have anything to do with me or not that they don't have anything to do with me, but they don't have anything to do with my worthiness, you know, and I think I always thought like, oh, if I were prettier or if I were better or if they liked me more, they wouldn't have treated me that way.

And that's not true at all, because, by the way.

And maybe they would have treated you better and that would have been even worse if you were prettier and they treated you better because of that, that would have been even worse. Right. But they wouldn't have. I mean, that's the thing. It's like it's not that they were like, be careful what you want. You might get it right. It's not like people are sitting there going, like I've just met.

I have so many, like hot, cool, successful girlfriends who dudes just like.

Who do you like, mistreat or like don't treat correctly or can't get out of their own way to be with and you're like, oh well, because they're attracting shallow guys because.

No, no, some of them are good dudes and they just are like, why couldn't he have done this? One thing for me, like I have an ex who I'm like still best friends with. And our only issue in our relationship is that, like, his work ethic wasn't very good.

And I was just like, I can't get past it. He was unattractive and like, he's acknowledged it. Now he's got like a great job now. And he's really like, you know, he was like driving for Uber. And I was just like, dude, I can't do this. I'm outgrowing this. And now he's in a totally different place and we're like very good friends.

And we had a car, OK, you're like already already a cab industry. But over black, we're literally our only thing. And like I remember I said jokingly, like a couple of years afterward, like, well, I guess you were never going to get it together for me. And he was like, it had nothing to do with you. Like, these are the reasons I finally got it together. And it wasn't the girl I was with next.

And it wasn't because I didn't want to be with you forever. Like, it was just my own thing. It was never going to happen at that time was just bad timing.

And you never want someone to do something for you. You won't do it with them. It won't stick and stick, and they will resent you. And now you're their mom and now it's incest.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So that that's been very freeing for me because I don't have to take everything so personally anymore.

It can just be something that, you know, doesn't serve me well. I just go, OK, that's something that isn't going to work for me. Yeah. In a relationship. Yeah. And it's not anything necessarily that makes them a bad person or me. Not hot enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is what it is and where you're at and it's where I'm at. Yeah. And that's not compatible and that's fine. Yeah.

So like taking off, I mean this is what mood stabilizers will do for you.

Different in me getting on mood stabilizers which is what is crazy.

What's it called. I'm on Lamictal. OK, I think it's a mood stabilizer.

I tried to get on antidepressants. It's a mood stabilizer. I don't know. I was that depression.

I mean I was told need stabilizer. I know. It's I mean I mean, I'm also taking an antipsychotic that they're like you can also use this to sleep like as needed to sleep. Like this is a trap of mood stabilizer.

That's I mean, it's. But don't we want different moods? I mean I mean, you just don't want to be so like this.

I don't like up and down.

I'm sorry that I'm I'm just going to play devil's advocate, OK, a little bit. All right. I'm not I'm not a I know this may come as a shock to you, but I'm not a doctor. Yeah, I know I'm a psychiatrist.

I'm surprised as you are. I have a psychiatrist that I see once every like three months. Right. I went on Prozac. Yes. OK, I've been in cognitive therapy and Alan on 12 step programs, I always want to qualify this by saying not all therapy is good. Just because you're in therapy doesn't mean you're sane, right? Sometimes therapy makes people worse. Some therapists are bad as therapies are out of their job and they just want to keep you there and they just or they're men.

I'm sorry.

I've been to therapists that I felt you're just trying to keep me sex so that you came here. They weren't offering solutions like MDR, 12 step programs, like if you have addictive behaviors and no one is recommending 12 step programs, get the fuck away from that therapist. A lot of times talking about something too much rean beds, the trauma and strengthens a false narrative. Interesting. And it's not healthy. I mean, the reason I love my therapist, she takes a very neurological approach to go.

You need to stop talking about this for thirty days. Wow. You need to stop apologizing for thirty days like you're not allowed to complain for thirty days. It's like she really wants to retrain my neural pathways. She's like, you need to do this workbook, you need to write this. It's like it's actually about getting better. She's like, my goal is for you to stop seeing me, right. If you're still seeing me in five years, I'm bad at my job.

Right. That's her sort of thing. So I think it's important to just and also when I first went into therapy, it made me worse, for lack of a better word, if I may be so inelegant, because I became arrogant, because I was like and I thought it was better than no, because I'm like, well, I'm in therapy, so I must be right. Well, I'm the one that's in therapy, right. Know I'm in therapy.

So I feel like. Right. You should I'm you know, it may be arrogant.

I go to therapy and I'm like, am I a narcissist? And they're like, no, we're fine. Yeah. Like, well, narcissists would never ask if they're narcissists. Right? And that's what they said. My therapist was like, you're fine. And also I talked to your psychiatrist and she doesn't think you are either. Like, they've like I've asked that.

So I asked my therapist. I said, Do you think I'm a psychopath? Do you think I'm a sociopath? And do you think I'm a narcissist? I've done this many times and she's like, and do you think I have borderline personality disorder? Oh, I did that, too. Yeah. And she and she's just like people with borderline personality disorder don't come to therapy and ask if they have it. Yeah. They no one would be in this room because they any criticism of them feels like an attack, it's too much for them to handle.

And narcissists don't acknowledge that they have weaknesses. So they wouldn't be like, do you think I have a problem?

Right. They'd be like, I'm the best. I don't need to go to therapy. They wouldn't be in therapy. Right? Exactly. You know, but just because someone's therapy doesn't mean they're healthy mentally. Yeah. And therapy doesn't work for everybody. Look at us banks, pink hair.

We're a fucking mess. Dude, I do think it's important. Like, I do think moods are important. Like, yeah, I think it's taken me so long to realize that, like, happiness, serenity, whatever that means doesn't mean an absence of negative feelings. It doesn't mean things that hurt.

Shouldn't things that hurt should hurt. Yes, but you might be sad sometimes. That's an appropriate like a lot of people. Yeah.

With the pandemic I think, Zyad, it's like you should know nothing. Agent it's a mood stabilizer. I just there's a difference between like I'm really sad. I'm crying today and I'm disassociating and I feel like I'm in a dream and I don't know what's happening and panicking and I don't feel real and I'm scared. I won't hurt myself. Like there's a huge difference. Yeah. And now I'm in the former ninth grade, which is now you're like the feelings I'm feeling are appropriate.

Yes, exactly. Like I still feel everything. This was something my friend told me when I was like, I don't know if I can get on antidepressants. She was like, honestly, like I was like, do you just feel good all the time now? And she goes, No, I still get really sad. I still panic. I still feel anxious. It's like but I don't feel like I'm not going to get through it now.

She's like, now I feel like I can handle it. I should, but I still feel all those things. It's I think that it's like people, antidepressants and these medications. It's like, are your reactions appropriate. Yes. Like does the punishment fit the crime? It's that it's like if you if I spill this off the counter and start hysterically screaming and crying, there's something going on. If I spill it and go, oh, fuck, that's a healthy reaction.

Yeah. If if someone dies and you're sad, you're not depressed. Right. You should be. There's this like a little bit of a war on anxiety and sadness that I think is often conflated with actual clinical depression, like we all feel entitled to be happy all the time. And that's not that is not how our brains should work. Right.

Before you decide to go on medication or therapy or whatever. First, make sure that you're not surrounded by shitheads. Uh huh. You know, I'm saying yeah, I spent a long time. I'm such a mess and was like, no, my friends are just assholes, right. That are late and selfish and make me feel bad about myself and that that are sort of make me question my self worth. Like, make sure you're surrounding yourself with people before you diagnose yourself as the problem.

If you're trying to dope people and you still feel anxiety and stress now, OK, this is a problem right before you solve a problem, first, make sure it's your problem. Right.

You know what else I realize about our relationship? One of the reasons you probably feel close to me and one of the reasons you have done so much for me is because when we met, you didn't feel like and you're right about this, that I wanted anything from you and in fact, is very anxious about giving you any indication that I wanted anything from you, even like just your time.

And I've felt that way about people who whatever opened for me or whatever the people that I do the most for are people who have never made me feel like they wanted anything from me except like to get to know me or whatever.

I have an interesting take on that.

And I think it's helpful for people to know this, which is that if you're hiring, when you're a boss, when you're trying to figure out who should be in your life professionally, personally, I think it's very important to see someone's going to sound like an insult.

Just said something nice. You're going to ruin his home for it. I think it's very important to see someone's like flaws right away. If you leave in exchange for somebody, you're like that person just has it all together. And like, I see that that's what's alarming to me. Like, I like to see everything up front because I like to I don't like to feel like I've been played or like I'm acting or like I'm engaging with someone's false self or mask interest.

It makes me feel unsafe and uncomfortable. Like if you come in and you're like, hey, I don't really like you that much like or something shitty, I'm like, at least I know what I'm dealing with. I don't care what you are, as long as it's honest. Right. I can handle any I can handle anyone's authentic self, but I can't handle someone's false self.

That's interesting because I feel like you can be friends with people you don't fully trust in a way that I can't. Interesting, but I accept their flaws. I go, this person is not trustworthy. I don't tell them this. In this in this I radically accept their nature. Wow. And then I decide whether or not I I'm the idiot. If I confide in someone who I know isn't trustworthy, I know that this person is codependent. So it's like there are people in my life that are like girlfriends or something.

And I know they're unrecovered codependents. Interesting. So that they will tell one of my secrets to someone else in a fucking heartbeat, right, because they're insecure and they want to trauma bond with that person or they need to snitch or they have some shame addiction, or they just might think it's fine to talk to me.

You've told people stuff about me that I told you that I had to tell you that I had to be like, can we not talk about that in front of people? But but I didn't know, did you? But you should have known. I feel like you should have known.

That is the crux of her in a relationship that you with every guy.

You should have known what I was thinking. You should have known not to share it with me. Now I do. I learned that. I learned that. I said, OK, I tell you that. So I shared information about other people are going to know that. Yeah, on social media, I just I didn't share it. I posted it. You told you told people something that had happened to me recently that I that they knew the day they met me and they were like, oh, so this happened.

And I was like, OK, I took five days to tell Whitney that happened.

And I was like, OK, my you know, I take sometimes. I don't want to lie, I lied for so long about so much, and I kept so many people's secrets for what it wasn't until I know this is mine, this is totally my fault and I'm sorry.

It's OK. That's the thing, though. We have that. I really sure where I can go. Hey, can we not do that? Like my bad guy should have known that totally. Yeah. Which is I fucked up. Yeah. Which I also feel like I would do. So I feel like we have that which I makes. And also the fact that you can come to me and say, can you not do that. That's fucking huge.

Yes. Yeah. Not that it should have come to that but still.

But yeah. And you were you know, it was one of those things where like we're in this business where everybody's kind of just telling everybody everything all the time. And we're all in this every business, I think. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that I also it's tricky because I do still struggle with the I I'm not good at lying. I'm just rusty like I used to be so good at it because I used to lie so much.

Now I'm just like I'm just bad at it and people will know. Right. But I also think it's really important to develop the skill to be able to say, you know what, it's it's inappropriate for me to chime in on that. Right. Or when people are gossiping about. So I'm going to go just I don't know enough about the situation to weigh in or I don't have an opinion on that or like it's none of my business. And I just I'm not judging you guys for talking about it, but I just truly I just don't want to say anything like.

Right. Learning that you can say that and that just because other people want information doesn't mean you have to give it to them. It's taken me a long time to go. Like me, not participating in gossip doesn't mean I'm a bitch. I just you know, it's just not appropriate for me to share totally, and I've completely done that with people. I just like say things before I realize like or I just assume people already know things or they're going to know something.

So it's like it doesn't matter if I say this and then you go, oh, shit, I shouldn't have done that. Yeah, it's so you're so afraid of why I'm like I think I'm too so afraid of lying that nobody else is. But I'm sure we share because we're afraid of not being authentic. Nobody else is worried.

Like I'll go, I'll be talking to the guy that I'm dating and I'll be like, just so you know, I dated this doctor when I was in Philly.

And he's like, what? Like, I like I just so like, yeah, omissions are not lies, right?

Lies and omissions are not the same thing unless somebody says I need to know something for this reason.

I think it's in a book called Attatched. The book called Attached by the Science of Attachment, Anxious, Avoidant, I don't think it's this one, but there's something called a couple bubble that has really served me in relationships, successful relationships, where it's like it's called a couple bubble, which is like before we go to a party, you get into the bubble. That's like, OK, what are you insecure about? What am I insecure about? And you approach going to a party or a public space or a wedding or whatever, like a like a team that's about to go out and you make a play, which is like, OK, Lindsay is going to be there.

She makes me super insecure. So if Lindsay corners me, can you make sure to come help me? And you approach it like like a team and like, oh, Mark's going to be there.

And, you know, I dated Mark and I don't care. But like, I just like if I'm around him, I'm probably going to hold your hand. So can you just, like, put your arm around me so that we're not going into situations expecting the other person to read our mind and know what we need. We what we need before we go in.

And we're the couple. And also I want to leave by 10:00. So we're on the same page about where we're going to leave, about how much we're going to drink. OK, let's have two glasses of wine and then let's go to whatever fucking Carl's junior afterwards. Like and you have a plan. So later you're not like, well, I want to fucking leave it. I was ready to leave and you weren't ready to leave. And you had three glasses of wine and I had one glass of wine.

So you were fucking wasted and having a blast and I was fucking miserable stuck in the corner with Lindsay.

Right. So you have to like like create a game plan. And that to me is like the most important tool in a relationship. Yes. Because after every party, after every wedding, it's a fight. What the fuck was that? You just fucking talked to John the whole time. I was fucking alone in the corner with the guy I fucking dated two years. Like, it was just like, I just want a teammate. I just want someone on my team.

That's it. That's it.

That's all. That's it. As soon as you're on separate teams, you're fucked. Yeah.

That's why it's hard to date people who are very self focused, selfish, even if they're like really good people, if they're just like in their own movie the whole time.

And every one is just a character. And even if you're like their leading lady, you're still just a character.

And it's also if you're arguing with someone or having a what I like to call a growth opportunity to rebrand pivoting session, if you're going to post a picture of me and my boyfriend on Instagram, I call it a marketing meeting.

It's a branding experiment. You know, I do like to call fights or arguments opportunities for growth.

I love that it's better. That's really I think there's an opportunity for growth here. Should we talk about this? Yeah. You know, yeah. Calling it fights arguments like it's just bad. It's just bad words. Yes. That makes things seem worse than they are and make your motives OK. But if there's an opportunity for growth with someone that you're dating, I think as soon as it's like I'm fighting with you instead of I'm fighting for you, it's over.

Yeah. It's like if I win, we both lose. If I win, that means we're against each other. Right. So I think it takes me so long to realize, like, hey, buddy, like I feel really is here about this thing. I need to bring it to you. I want to talk to you about it. It has to be more like I'm not a sports person. A what is it when you get Duop what's it when you a hand Pough.

When you get together with a bunch of people and you do a a pow, wow, oh, pow, wow, OK, so this is appropriate.

Like, what are we doing? I know a pow wow. It's a pow wow. It's not a fight. It's an argument like it's a pow pow.

Like, yeah, it's like, hey dude. Like if you approach conflicts with with your partner like that, it's going to be so much better. Right, because no one can fail because no one can win or lose. That's if you win you feel like shit and if you lose you feel like shit. But that's the benefit of oversharing in the beginning of a relationship. If you overshare and you go, this is what I need. This is why I need it.

Yeah, really clear about it before it's even an issue. You don't have to read my mind. And then that's like just blown past or ignored. That's like.

Hard to get past, I think, yeah, and I don't know why you guys wouldn't believe all of this coming from two single women. I mean, look, both of us could have been married if we wanted to be. No, I have it's it's honestly, that's the thing. I just have a very I'm whole now for a hero and I'm twenty six, so it's fine.

I'm sixty seven. Has the all I've been in a relationship for the last seven years. Are you dating now or.

No. No, no, no. A while. I don't want to. Good. That's but multiple people invite me to retire. I'm good.

But are you actively saying I'm not dating noun's you for certain reasons. Yes. OK, good. You're taking a sabbatical. I am taking a sabbatical. I love that on everything. For how long you have to put a date on it.

Um, I don't know. I mean at least until January you should like put a hard date on it. But you can't decide you could be like this, you can this date, I'm going to be over my ex-boyfriend like, you can't do that. I just put a if you put a clock on it, say, like, I'm not going to do anything until January 1st, OK, just or whatever. Yeah. Because then I really love scheduling decisions.

You can always add later, add months later.

I'm not even going to think about this as an option. But you might come sooner you make a lie about this guy and it's been two months so you're going to and that is what erodes our self-esteem when we have a plan and don't follow through with it and then we feel weak. So the best thing we can do is set goals and achieve them and that builds our self-esteem. So it's like even if a cute guy text you, it's like text me January 2nd then.

And the same thing with making decisions where it's like and you and I went to this a lot when we were scheduling our tour hot Segway, where we were talking about, you know, in San Francisco, November 6th and 7th, we were talking about covid and touring and we were like oscillating on whether we should tour, whether we shouldn't tour. And I remember us going, like, let's not think about this till till June eight, right until then, so that we can free up and liberate our brains to think about other things.

And then we can stress schedule. When you're going to stress out about something instead of generalized stress all the time, just go like in relationships like right now dating somebody.

Not sure about it. I mean, you know what? I'm not going to worry about this till November 1st, right. Till November 1st. I'm going to entertain this. I'm going to be in it because my instinct, I'm very black and white, because I need even a false sense of control. I'll go like, fuck it, I'm out. And the next day I'm like, oh, you texted me. He's kind of cute. I was being ridiculous yesterday and then I'm just in madness.

So I'm like, I'm going to just be in until November 1st and then I'll decide. I'll make a decision based on the data I've collected until November 1st. Yes. Right now I just I don't have data. Yeah. Not enough data, which I think is just like a good thing. I'm learning when people like I don't know if this guy is good for me or bad for me. I'm like, you just have a ton of data.

Yeah. It's premature. Yeah. I mean, that's great. You also told me something recently where you were like, you're twenty six, you don't want to meet your person right now because you're not who you are. And I was going to meet your soulmate then going to be a different person in two years.

I know, I know. But and I think it's possible to grow certain people and I think a lot of it's timing and like I haven't been alone in a really long time. Yeah. And part of it, I think, is just childhood insecurity of like, you're afraid to lose momentum. You're like, if I stop dating, maybe I won't know how or I won't be desirable anymore or something. And I finally feel like I'm in a place where I feel good about myself, which is really weird.

Yeah.

And I'm like, OK, like but after I came to your life, I what a coincidence.

When Whitney came into my life, broke me down again and I built myself back up and I said, wow, I trust me like you're not religious anymore.

You can just call me God and call me God. Now Jesus has risen.

I'm there. Are you there, Whitney Taylor, you told me to come at two in your front door is locked, I'm telling you.

Yeah, I just and I think any time I've been working on myself, which is this is so sad. I was working on myself to be better for somebody.

Oh, I was I was like, oh dude, I can't believe you just said that. I cried last night. I cried, yeah. Hard. Why don't you face time? I needed to do it because I want to watch you cry. That's a really good I should have. I know I do go back and forth with you of how much weakness I want to show you.

Please show me more. That would be great.

But I, you know, I feel a little bit of pressure around you to be strong. A lot to be like this. Everything you're doing is working this. Oh no, I know.

It's not like I have. I see your flaws. Like you see my flaws. I think we both see each other. Wow.

But what do you think for someone listening?

Would they find surprising that you know about me? Oh, surprising that they know it's a surprising thing that you didn't.

Oh, that you can be very toxic while dating someone. Well, do you someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can be super toxic. And you seem like somebody who just be really, like, not going to take a step away. But here's the good news.

I don't bring it to them. I hide it from the now and I go through it on my own. Five years ago, I would have taken my toxicity to them. Interesting. Now I take it to my girlfriends that help me through it. And then they would never know about it. Right. Unless they listen to. Which is a nightmare. Right. It's hide it. You have to just protect them from your butt.

I've seen you play games. I've seen it happen. And you told me you're like, you have to do this. You just have to play this game. And I'm like, no, I don't think it's this. It's that there's a difference between playing games and acquiescing to human nature. So when I say, like, you can't respond to that text, let him spin out a little bit. I'm not saying play games. It's just don't do his work for him.

He's doing something immature at the time. You're talking about where you're like, I'm to let him spin out. He was being so mature with you. He's being so direct, so mature. And you decided it wasn't what you wanted to hear. And so you're like, he fucked up. He fucked up. I'm going for a walk. You fucked up. And I'm like, I don't think you did. But then I needed to take a walk and I needed to process.

I did. Thank God I didn't respond right. With something emotional or punished or punitive or did you did respond. And I said something kind of petty and confusing. And then he tried to call you and you were like and I was like, c'mon, talk to this person.

But you cannot engage if you're in an emotion or in an emotion. I made a mistake. Then you were in an emotional place. But yes, you did work through it on your own. Yeah, you're correct. But I just wouldn't have expected any of that. Yeah, because this is someone that kicked up by inner child. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But then you've seen someone that is available. Suitable thing. Oh yeah. And then you as someone who's super helpful to you, it is so sad, so bad for that guy.

It's such a nice dude. All right.

We have to go because we're taking covid test because in order to fly to take our flight, we have to. I didn't know about this.

You have to have to present our cover test, I think, in order to like work when I think it's just it's just Bastar. Is it just Massachusetts? I think technically it's New York, too. They make you sign something when you land after quarantine for two weeks.

We're not sure unless you will. That's because we're proving that we took a cold. OK, so I guess this is the way around that.

So we'll show up with a piece of paper. That's interesting.

Yeah, I haven't done it, so I know, but I'm trying to look at all of the things that I didn't ask you that. Oh yeah. I'm so happy we doing this. I have a list. I would love to hear the list. Oh, this is what it is. I was because after I was my crying spell last night, I was trying to think about what it was. And I realized that when I like somebody. I get really emotional and sad, yeah, because it's ultimately like you have to figure out why you're in pain and what the pain is coming from, it's my ultimately goes down to my fear of being embarrassed.

Yes and yes. When you like someone, it's embarrassing. Humiliating embarrassment is the most terrifying thing to me. Right. And I, I you might not even get this reference because you're too young.

But the movie. Carrie. Carrie. Oh, really?

I always feel like I'm not the Carrie Underwood documentary, the movie territory where at the end she gets wins prom queen and then the they played a prank on on the blood goes on her head.

Oh, that's what it is.

I'm not waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for the pigs, but. Oh, that's it. Embarrassment.

And so for me, when I text a guy, this is why I'm so careful when I text, because I know we talked about this. If you're going to send a text, play out the rest. Are you going to be waiting for the response or you're going to? That's part of the reason I'm so stingy with my communication to someone I like, because I know I try to, like, plan. OK, I'm going to text him at 8:00 because then I have nothing to do afterwards and.

I'm not going to be waiting for a response. Yeah, I mean, like I try to, like, protect my future self and being careful when to try to avoid feeling embarrassed if I don't hear back or something embarrassment comes up, which is a very deep, primal fear of like being embarrassed, maligned, castigated, and ultimately in your reptilian brain like. You don't have the protection of the tribe. I mean, it's a very deep fear.

It's like cellular.

Yeah, like it's like like anyway, yeah, that was a question for me. That was something that I.

So you're embarrassed right now. Tell us. I just figured. Yeah, I feel great. Just really not sure. I just mean you're pretty. I love it.

You could take it. You can handle it. Yeah.

Because I don't respect you anymore. It was actually when we're pitching this TV show, the first we had like five pitches or something.

And I would like make fun of Taylor. I'd make fun of Taylor the whole time and then say how great Brandon was the whole time. By the last by the last pitch, she goes, OK, so this is a witness. Things are like we're all with the head of Hulu and it's so clear that we like have some, like, resentment's to work out. And she's like, all right, this is Whitney's thing. She's like a roast me and then say how great I am.

It's like it was like they were like.

And then she talks about how toxic is to be partnered with older people in Hollywood, as if that's not what I'm a victim of right now with her was so like like someone walking into like, you know, when you're at like somewhere someone a couple is fighting, you know, it's like so good for everybody else, right?

Oh, yeah. And I really enjoyed it. I was like, Mom and Dad is fighting.

No, because I also think it's so important that they see that you stand up to me.

Yes.

That's what there's no point. And have there's no point in having your voice on the show if I'm not here. Right.

If it's not clear if you're if you're just scared of me, they're going to be like, well, is Taylor's voice really getting in the show or is Whitney steamrolling her?

True. And I used to be scared of you and I'm not anymore. You had no questions for me. Wow.

You literally had nothing. No, I did. I don't think you did. You just talked about you crying for another ten minutes. And my question was, why didn't you call me? Well, my big question is what's going on with your hobbies? My hobby? I don't think you have enough hobbies. I don't. I really don't. You don't have any non-work related hobbies, and it's worrying me. That's true. Your hobbies are like taking Kovac, says the woman who literally films everything for Instagram stories.

I'm sorry, it's called BNF. I rescue dogs. That's true. You do. And I rehabilitate horses.

I mean, this is like from a huge intervention for my therapist was like, you need to do two hours a week, I'm sorry, four hours a week, twice a week for two hours a week. Nonrelated work, hobbies.

That's just play. Right. I see my sisters and my friends.

That's good. But not about getting smarter, not about getting better. Because to me I'll turn any hobby into a job. Right. I'll be like I'm going to read a book for my hobby.

And then it has to be like, yeah, I have a solid science book where I'm getting smart, where I was like, we're reading all these self-help books, let's just do a pocket. Like I literally.

Yeah, but that's not that's not just for fun. What do you do. That's what I'm saying. I don't. What's your fun. I don't know. I've just been watching talk lately but I wrote a bit of work.

That's where. Yeah that's true. That's what it's me watching it going OK, how do I get better at this or other people doing. I don't have anything. Oh God I don't have anything. I was there. I was there. I mean I remember I was like I'm going like so blankets and like do crochet and I'm start doing crocheting. I'm like, I should sell these on Etsy. Like I can't just do something for fun and for free.

Right. So your horses for fun. Yeah. I mean even rescuing is a job though so I wouldn't give you the it's not a job I don't get.

I lose money rescuing animals. OK, all right. But I do post about it because it helps them. But it's not my business. I mean you're making money like, I don't know, lose work off of rescuing animals.

Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but you're doing a it is work what you're doing.

It's hard what you're doing, you know, but you always rock climbing.

Rock climbing is still a hobby, even though it's hard.

OK, that's true. I'll give it to you. All right. All right. So you're right about everything that was I take it back. OK, clip that. That would be the clip there on a loop. No, but like. So you have any suggestions for me for hobbies? Because now I have time. That's another reason.

But you will be a better artist if you have hobbies. I know.

I think a lot. I think a lot of the kind of high performers that kind of people that listen to podcasts like this and the people that are trying to hustle, hustle, hustle, in order for art to imitate life, you have to have a life. If you guys have any suggestions for hobbies, please send them these. I did want to kind of start gardening.

Yeah, you could. Yeah, I would do gardening and growing shit for me.

I love that for me to pour.

OK, we love you guys.

Is there anything else you want to say. This is fun.

This was fun. This is good. Yeah. I feel like this was good. This is I feel like if I, if this podcast existed when I was twenty two I would have be married by now.

Yeah. I feel like if I didn't know you I would listen to this podcast like this is a banger. Yeah. I listen to some episodes of this but I have not seen you that well.

This is like a this is like a wisdom dump this one. Oh yeah we did. So this is a wisdom dump and I don't think we overshared too badly. Are you going to I mean, you can go back and edit cutting all everything I set out. Yeah, no, there's definite. This was definitely a banger. Yeah, this is definitely like a share a sharrett. I mean, we'll see what the numbers are.

Yes, I will see who got more views on you. The data is still Hilary Duff is killing.

Oh, I'm sure she is killin and the numbers are so good. All right. We love you guys. See you on tour. San Francisco and Reno and whatever other dates I force Taylor to, I'd love you. Don't ride elephants or dolphins and write Taylor some positive comments about her shirt.

And don't don't don't tell her I'm bullying her. Don't don't enable her.

I know. Don't do that. You don't need to tell me. I have to pee so bad I.