Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therisage. Their Tri-Light Panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go, and I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where, honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including a reduced some signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therassage Tri-Light everywhere all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Effective. Head over to therasage. Com right now and use code B BOLD for 15% off. This code will work site-wide. Again, head over to therasage, T-H-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E. Com and use code Be Bold for 15% off any of their products. Hi, everybody. We're doing another episode here on Habits & Hustle, and this is my favorite topic. Of course, it's all about health, wellness, fitness, nutrition. I have the President and founder of a company called Biooptimizers, who is also Canadian, which is another reason why.

Both Matt and I are Canadian. Oh, both Matt and I are Canadian?

Oh, both Matt and I are Canadian.

Yeah, we're both Canadian.

Oh, my God. But Matt's not here. I only have Wade here today. Wade Lightheart, who is just... His titles are insane. He's a professional bodybuilder as well as what I just said. Fifteen titles, you said in seven weight classes. That's incredible.

Yeah. Terrible genetics for the sport. She never have done it.

I want to talk to you about genetics and epigenetics. I want to talk to you about All of it. Are you serious? Do you really think you have bad genetics? Oh, 100%. Really?

Yeah. For example, on three different occasions, I was able to get to the World Championships, Mr. Universe, Natural Olympia, Olympia, all that stuff. But I can use enough technology to overcome my limitations to get there. But at the highest level of sports, you need not just the discipline, not just the proper training, not just the proper diet, but you do need the genetics in order to hit the pinnacle of it. For example, if I was in the drug, the non-tested, I'm in drug-tested competitions. If I was competing in the Natural Olympia or the regular Olympia.

The regular Olympia, yeah.

It wouldn't matter what I did in my life. There would be no chance that it would ever be a guy like Roni Coleman. It's just not going to happen. We are different. We have different potentials. What bodybuilding was for me, though, was a way to experiment. For me, it wasn't a sport. It was more of an art. It was the art of esthetically sculpting my physique in a way that I found appealing because I liked art and I liked the creation, and I love the esthetics of the human body. I'm a sensual person by nature, and that became fascinating. And then the manipulation of nutrition and physiology and training and now what's called biohacking and stuff, that became a fascinating that I could take training or I could take nutrition or I could take some technology and implement this and start altering aspects of my physiology. I thought, this is just unbelievably cool. So if I was a sculptor, I would just slap some clay on. If I was a painter, I would just add some more paint or a different texture in the background. But I was born with this. This is what I got to deal with.

So it's like, hey, let's work on it and let's have fun with it. And it's been a lifelong experience since I was 15. I'm in my 50s now and I haven't stopped.

And you just told me before we actually started that you came out of retirement and then you just want another title.

Yeah. What happened is I was turning 50 a little over a year ago, and I decided, I haven't actually done a competition. They would refer you by all these titles. I'm like, Well, I'm not really a bodybuilder anymore. I haven't done this and I haven't competed in It's 13 years. So why don't I go and see what it's like as a 50-year-old, metabolically, dietary-wise, physiological-wise, to actually get into contest shape? Now, looking good in the gym is one thing. Looking good on a stage is a complete Completely different beast. It is way harder.

It's not even in the same category.

No, I've seen all kinds of people who look amazing in the gym walk on stage and look terrible. And so I was like, okay, well, let's see what I can do. And so I went through this whole endeavor, and it was correlation as we were releasing the book because I wanted to make sure that anything that I'm doing doesn't just have the scientific backing. It has actual real-world applications. And so I did it, and I ended up competing in the Ironman International, which is the oldest, most prestigious bodybuilding contest here in California. It's been around since 20s. All the Mr. Americas, all the Mr. Unions, won that contest at some time. And when you turned pro, you used to go to that show as your first show. So I went And it turned out really wild. I ended up winning the overall men's and the Grand Master's there. So the old guys and the category, which qualified me as a professional, gave me a professional. I never thought I would be a pro, and I became a pro, and then I got to compete at the Mr. Olympia later that year, November. Now, after that, though, I said, I'm going to be an endurance athlete.

So I can't be the best bodybuilder, but I don't know too many people have competed in the World Championships and then ran a marathon. So I started training for a marathon, ran a marathon six months later, using the principles in here, which are inverse. The principles for being a successful endurance athlete are inverse to being a successful muscle or strength athlete. Totally. So I wanted to be able to demonstrate personally that by using the technology and components in here, that you could completely go in a different direction and produce excellent results. Now, I'm not a threat for the professional title, and I'm not a threat as a marathon runner to anybody.

How did you do?

I ran just over four hours on my marathon for my first wine. I never read one before.

So I was pretty impressed with that. Wow. So did all your muscle break down? Did you become flabby? What happened to your body?

Yeah, this was what was shocking. And it's something we talk about in the book around metabolism. So a lot of people look at the calories in, calories out as a way to get there. And that is true. But the part that they don't understand is your metabolism. And metabolism can be affected by genetics, activity, diet, drugs, a whole host of biohacking technology, as people would call it, or I like to call it biological optimization technology. So all of those things are going to impact your metabolism. And your strategy is going to impact it. So if you have a poor strategy, you're going to damage your metabolism. If you have a great strategy, you're going to enhance your metabolism. So you want to implement a strategy, if you're looking at weight loss, that enhances your metabolism so that you don't have the rebound effect after you get to your weight, lose 10, 15, 20 pounds, and then you blow up. I've seen that so many times. I'm just like, We got to avoid that and help people avoid that situation.

It's very hard long... It's terms like lifestyle versus just an actual acute situation.

Yeah. As far as building muscle and getting ripped, that's easy for me. I've got that down. I figured it out. Good for you. I've coached thousands of people on it. I've got it. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are, background, genetics, age, whatever. I can get that done. It's easy.

We should talk later. Okay.

Now, what I didn't know was Well, how does this apply to endurance training? And this is what I think this is particularly speaking to a lot of females in general, because a lot of females will equate calorie expenditure during cardiovascular is what's going to enhance their physique. So they're on the treadmill, they're on the bike, they're on the stepper, the elliptical, whatever for hours and hours, because the little sign says that they burnt 400 calories or 500 calories or 600 calories. And that's going override the chocolate and two glasses of wine they had last night at dinner. So they're coming at it from a point of guilt, and they're doing the calories in, calories out math, and they find that they're getting fatter and fatter.

We call it girl math. My husband calls it girl math, actually.

Yeah. And so I said, Well, what would it be like on an endurance training? So I was literally training more hours to get ready for my marathon than I was preparing for the natural Mr. Olympia. The difference was, as I was doing less weight training and a lot more cardio. So for cardio training, for getting ready for the natural Olympia, I would do about 30 minutes a day, five times a week.

Of what? You're talking when you're doing this?

Low intensity.

Low intense cardio.

Low intensity. Like zone 2 or whatever. Zone 2. Not going above that. That's it. It's a little extra. No big deal. Nothing else. When I started running, and bodybuilders aren't known for runners. I went through all the adjustment phases for that. I literally, in the course of the six months, my VO2 max went through the roof. I have a VO2 max of a 20-year-old. But my fat went up 10 pounds over the course of six months, even though I was in training more. The reason for that was twofold. One, as a bodybuilder, I know how to manage my metabolism and manage my hunger. As an endurance athlete, I did not know that. What happens is either immediately after or the next day, especially from the long runs, I found uncontrollable aspects of managing my hunger because I had put myself in such a deficient state. It was triggering warning bells. I think a lot of females fall into that trap, and then the math doesn't even work out. So you over eat. The other thing is your body becomes its function. I always say, Who would you rather look like? Would you rather look like sprinters in the 100-meter finals, who have these beautiful esthetic, muscular, ripped physiques?

Or would you like to look like marathon runners who are skinny and lean but jiggly? As I went into the endurance training, I became a little jigglier and a little skinnier. I literally lost muscle mass in my legs, even though my legs are going every single day.

Can I tell you something that's so interesting that we just said all this? One of my first questions I was going to say to you is because I fall into this trap because psychologically, and I'm a fitness person, psychologically, I know all of this in terms of practical, but in my brain for my mental health, I always go towards cardio first versus the weights because it makes me feel better in terms of my mood, my mood enhancement. However, this is what my question always was, whenever I do that, what ends up happening is I get way hungrier, I eat way more, and I end up gaining weight. So even though I know all those things, psychologically, I end up doing... Women do this all the time. We end up doing the cardio because we think for some reason that we're working out harder because we sweat more or because we feel like our moods are enhanced. But really, if it's for weight loss or for fat loss, I always end up eating 10 times more than I'm supposed to, and I have no way of controlling my appetite. Even though I know, I'll say, Okay, today I, even though I'm going to do all this cardio, I know I'm going to get hungry because I'm going to run two extra miles and I'm going to do da da da da da.

And then I'm so ravenous. There's no way. I'll eat everything in sight. So how do you even turn off that neurotransmitter in your brain so you don't eat, or we just don't do the cardio as much and just figure out a way to do more weights?

I would say the latter is the easiest.

That's the easiest.

Let's look at the entire realm of the fitness, whatever you want to call it, montage of all the options. Here's the deal. Bodybuilders and fitness competitors can figure out exactly what body fat level they are going to be at within a very calculated time. The worst athlete in even a local first-rank show looks better than most people good on their best day.

On their best day, for sure.

None of them use use excessive amounts of cardio to get in shape. In fact, they all know that too much cardio is going to end up with a poor result esthetically. And what are we looking for? We're looking for esthetic appearance. And I believe that genetically, women are far more in tune with the genetic, attractive forces that we're aspiring to be. Symmetry of the face, the The way the body type goes, limb length. And if you look at that, and I think because of our biological inclinations for procreation, women are just really tuned into that particular aspect. It's because It was a survival mechanism overall. Right.

Keep on to, I'm going to look for my questions I'm going to ask.

And so why is the entire beauty industry so focused on women? Because women are really in tune to that whole component. What I find disassociative is how many women fall into the trap of just what you're saying, doing things that are counter to what the industry has developed. I think part of it is there's this weird belief for women, I don't want to do weights. I don't want to get too big. There's one in 10,000 women that could get too big. And the only way you can change your natural shape to make that more esthetic appeal is through weight training and targeting specific muscle groups. And someone like myself understands that. I had poor genetics. I had no business. My parents looked like white smurfs. You know what I mean? This wasn't really part of the operation, but I was passionate about it, and then I discovered this. From that, I just got really passionate about helping other people hit their esthetic ideal and what is the nutrition and what is the biochemistry. Because a lot of people don't want to look like pro bodybuilders, especially the drug user losing ones. I understand that. They throw the entire industry out as opposed to realizing they're the original biohackers, they're the original masters of esthetics, they are the masters of fat loss and esthetic appeal.

A hundred %. We have to give the devil its due. And I think now that contests have changed and they've opened up a lot more arrangements, a lot more people are getting hip to it. I think social media has changed because now there's more influencers out there demonstrating, Hey, you can do this. And now I see people in their 30s and 40s and 50s doing their first shows. And not that the show is the outcome that you want. I think the fact that you can empower yourself and change something that you didn't feel that you had power over is extremely exciting When you can do that, you can do anything.

It's super empowering. I totally agree. The issue, though, is you have to dial in your nutrition. You can correct me if you think otherwise, but for me, nutrition is 95, not even 80/20. I think it's a 95% of what it is, because if I'm not eating on point, I will gain weight, period, end of story. You can weight train all you want. You could do cardio all you want. If you're eating too much and not eating properly, it doesn't matter. What will happen is actually if you're weight training really hard and then you're eating not what you're supposed to be eating or eating too much, you will look big because you'll have a layer of fat over your muscles. Then that's the counter effect of what you want. That's why it is like a science right now. This is what I really wanted to talk. What I wanted to ask you is because what are we supposed to do? You only have a finite amount of time. If you're saying nutrition is more important than the fitness piece into getting fat loss and to having that optimal body, what would you say the easiest way to do it would be?

How to do it for the average person? Not someone who wants to go on a stage, but regularly.

Yeah, 3-5 Five 30 to 45 minute weight training sessions a week and a diet that fits their genetics and their sustainability.

That's it. How do they know what their genetics are?

You can take a genetic test and get that relatively easy. If you're really good, if you have a good coach on understanding biofeedback, you can probably write down what you do over the course of two weeks. I used to do this years ago when I coach people, and it will reveal a tremendous amount of what's better for you by saying, Okay, how did I feel after this meal? Was I hungry the next day? Did I exercise too much? Did I have uncontrollable hunger like you were illustrating early? All of a sudden after two weeks, because you can't remember what you did yesterday, let alone last week. But when you write it all out for a couple of weeks, your moods, your feelings, are you tired? Are you groggy? Are you hungry? Are you starving? Are you feeling full? Are you energized? Are you low energy? Are you dragging your butt? All of a sudden, you start to see all of the patterns within a couple of weeks. People used to come to me and they'd say, How's your diet? Oh, it's pretty good. Oh, I eat it. I eat it pretty I'm like, Okay, well, write that down for a week or two weeks.

I said, I'm not doing anything until I see that. If you can't do that, we can't work together because you're not taking responsibility for your life. Well, at the end of the two weeks, they'd come back with their head slunk down and their body physiology is all like this, right? It's the come to Jesus moment. I'm like, Let me take a look at your diet. And they're like, What's your take on this? I guess I don't eat as good. And the science says that people underestimate their caloric consumption by 40%. So if you think you're eating 2,000 calories a day, you're probably eating 2,800. If you're twice as good as everybody else, you're probably eating 2,400. And it's 3,500 calories to a pound of fat. You do the math. It's not really hard to gain a lot of body weight. We have to understand a couple of things. We are dealing with 10,000 generations of genetics, and starvation was a big part of that. We have all of these mechanisms to put on fat in the event of starvation and to reduce muscle mass because it's metabolically active. It takes more energy. If you don't get things right, you're going to drop muscle mass, which lowers your metabolism, and you're going to increase fat.

That's why it's a science. Whatever you want to break that down as an 80, 20, 95, 5, here's what I would say. It's 100% 20% of everything. So if you want to say it's 80% diet, you got to be 100% on that 80%. If it's 20% exercise, you need to be 100% on that.

That's so true.

So it's everything.

How do you shift someone's brain, though, to go from cardio to weight?

Well, I don't. At the end of the day, people have to become honest with themselves. And that is, if you struggled for years, you are not some weird genetic person You are not some victim of your parents. You are not whatever. You are who you are. And guess what? That's the card you deal with. What you don't know is how to play those cards. And you have to admit, I don't know. And that level of humility is what's required to honestly assess yourself. And I don't know what I'm doing, but I believe I can find the help. You go get the help, and then you learn until you figure it out. And there's all kinds of people who have figured it out from a metabolic standpoint, and that's what you just need to do.

To go from cardio to weights?

Yeah, because it's really not about cardio to weights. It's really about, is what you're doing getting you where you want to go.

Without accepting and letting go whatever paradigm that is keeping you from that goal.

And oftentimes it has nothing to do with the weights. It has nothing to do with the cardio, and it has nothing to do with the diet. It's really sub-subconscious emotional trauma that has not been resolved. And we talk about this in the book about how to get unresolved trauma out of your life that is inhibiting you from actually doing the things that you need to do to be successful.

Do you feel that has there been any data because you've been doing this for so long, for so many years, so many decades. Is there any piece of data or research that you've seen that now you look at and you're like, maybe I was wrong about that. That changed your mind on something that actually is worthwhile, different, that you're doing differently?

It's always difficult to determine where you were wrong. I'll tell you one thing was, so at one point in my life, growing up, essentially a carnival, we hunted and fished and lived in a rural part of the world. If it didn't I have meat in the meal. It wasn't a meal. I made fun of vegetarians and things like that. I had a hard core paradigm blindness that you could not get in shape without meat. When I engaged, I remember when I decided to experiment with being a vegetarian, I tried it for two weeks. I was concerned I was going to dry up and blow away. Then I said, Okay, I'll try another two weeks. I was concerned I was going to dry up and blow away. Then I went another month and I felt great. None of the things that I believed to be true were true. I went, Oh, okay. Then I remember asking, I forget the name of the fellow. He was a tennis pro who was successful in the pro circuit, who was a vegetarian. I went up to him, he did his talk, and I went, Do you think you could be a bodybuilding champion on a plant-based diet?

And he's like, Just go do it. I went, Right. Now, I didn't have any references at that time, and so I had to experiment, and I made mistakes and stuff. But you know what? Two years later, I was standing on stage at the Mr. Universe as a plant-based guy. Now, here's something I didn't know. The way I was doing it destroyed my digestive system. Eleven weeks after that contest, I had gained 42 pounds of fat and water. I go from Mr. Universe to Mr. Marshmallow. I remember meeting this doctor, and this doctor was in his 70s. He was super vibrant. He was super healthy. He ate a raw food diet. He did all this stuff with the digestive system. I went to him, I'm like, Dude, I want to be like you, but I'm supposed to be cosmetically ideal. That's essentially what bodybuilding is. It's cosmetic fitness. I said, What am I doing wrong? He says, Wade, you've learned to build the body from the outside in. I'm going to teach you to build it from the inside out. That changed my life. Those were a couple of paradigm shifts, the plant-based stuff, the understanding that whatever the experts are advocating, so common element in My fitness is we need one gram per pound of body weight in order to recover properly.

Well, what is the built-in assumption there? Do I need protein in my body? No. I need the amino acids I can extract from protein. How do I extract that? Well, that requires enzymes, hydrochloric acid, and proteolytic probiotics. That is probiotics that actually convert protein into amino acids that could be used, neurotransmitters, building blocks, whatever. If I have a disruption in my digestive system, I could have the perfect diet, but I'm not getting the amino acids that I require. Biological value of protein. A lot of people say, Well, you can't get all the amino acids you require from a plant-based diet. Well, there are 22 amino acids, nine of which are essential amino acids. That means our body does not manufacture them. And virtually every plant has all nine essential amino acids. Oh, so guess what? You can get all of the amino acids. Now, why isn't there a lot of plant-based athletes? Well, let's look at the subset of plant-based athletes versus non-plant, like meat eaters, for example. Way more meat eaters than plant-based athletes. What does that lead to? That leads to the development of science, of culture, of research that all are using this paradigm, and you confirm that paradigm blindness from their original assumption that plant-based athletes can't do it.

Now, we're starting to see that shift. When I went plant-based as an experiment, not because I wanted to be some person that stood outside the first door and shamed people and stuff like that, because that's not my goal. We could just move away from all the ethics and morality and grandstanding because plants are sentient beings and all that stuff. Are we killing plants? Are we killing bugs when we farm? Are we killing them? It really gets us into semantics. But back then in 2003, 22 years ago, nobody was doing it. Then over time, as the technology is about now, there's tremendous amount of athletes who are doing plant-based, and more and more research is coming around it, which is disproving that you can't get that. Now, where the truth is, is a lot of plant-based athletes don't eat sufficient amount of protein to get enough amino acids. It's not that you can't get it from a plant-based diet. It's that you got to develop the strategy, just like all the meat eaters, developed a strategy around bodybuilding and fitness to get in shape. You You need to be able to integrate that on a plant-based diet, and hopefully, you've made that selection based on your genetic individuality.

For some people, no matter what they do, a plant-based diet is not going to work for them. For some people, it's going to be the best thing ever. My business One of his partners, a ketogenic guy. He loves ketogenic. It works well for him. He loves metabolizing fats. He doesn't do as well in carbohydrates. And so that works for him. One of the reasons that we were able to write this book is because we're two guys that produced outstanding success amongst It's a wide group of people. He's ketogenic, I'm plant-based. We're essentially dietary agnostic. We're like, Hey, here's all the major dietary strategies. Here's which one might work for you. Here's the reasons why. Here's the pieces that are optimal about that, and here's what you've got to offset that's suboptimal, and go for it.

Okay, so then that's interesting. Then what did you do to win the award when you were plant-based, to win the Championship when you were plant-based, that you didn't do when you gained the 42 pounds and became a marshmallow. What did you do differently?

After that contest, I realized that the diet that I had been following, which was a derivative of it fits your macros. That's probably the most successful and easiest diet to do if it fits your macros diet, which is so much protein, so much carbohydrate, so much fat, and you can vary that.

You did it plant-based?

Right.

But not vegan, right? At that time, you weren't vegan.

We'll get to this in a second. Okay. So when I did that, there wasn't a lot of technology, and I was using the strategy that my coach had implemented at that time was really simple carbohydrate sources. So fast acting, stacked with a lot of protein.

Give me an example.

Like ricecakes was the carbohydrate, because you could just vaporize them really quick, which would create an insulin spike. The insulin spike was then stacked with amino acids to 50 grams or something like that.

What was the protein, though?

What's that? So you could use whey protein or plant protein, and what they usually use was meat. I'm trying to adopt this to a plant-based diet. Well, the simple carbohydrates in a plant-based thing, first off, I was so hungry.

Starving. But you still were able on a plant-based diet 22 years ago to win a title. Yes. And then you gained the weight 42 pounds. What did you- Well, what happened is- Yeah, what happened?

My success set me up for the I stayed on a restrictive diet for 11 straight months. Got it. I didn't have refeeds on that to boost my metabolism. So my metabolism had crashed so deeply, and I had disrupted my digestive system. So when I came off that, I can remember sitting there, because this is a literal story. I remember being at my friend's house sitting there, and I'm cooking up this spaghetti. I couldn't get enough of it. I'm eating this pot of spaghetti. While I'm cooking this spaghetti, I'm slamming chocolate bars because I was in, I had activated my survival I had tripped over that genetic proclivity of survival, and my body was like, You starved yourself to death. You got to eat as much calories as possible. The other thing is, my digestive system was disrupted because my diet was so restrictive, I didn't have the good bacteria flora inside my body that would allow me to digest and manage all this food. So my body just kept storing everything as body fat. I knew all these things, but I was in this uncontrollable feeling. So for the first time ever, I was able to truly understand what it feels like to the person who is in that situation of uncontrollable eating, the guilt, the shame, the looking at yourself.

I was like, Oh, my God, I know exactly what my clients actually feel like. Now, during that, I rebuilt my digestive system. I went on a completely raw food diet at that point. I went two years, 100% raw food diet to experiment with that. While I was eating 250 grams a day of protein before, I went down to because I improved my capacity to convert that protein into the amino acids I need. Now, there was limitations on that, which I found in about two years. Then I spent the next two years of optimizing that amount with the training so that I could compete as a raw vegan because they said, That's definitely not possible. Did you do that? I did that. In 2007, I'm probably the only person in the world that's been to a World Championships in bodybuilding as a raw vegan and as a vegetarian. I did that in 2007. 7. Not because I wanted to do the show. I was past that, but I wanted to prove- Did you win? I won the national championships again, and then I went to, I think, a place six in the world. But again- Oh, Scott.

Number one and number two, there's nothing in this lifetime I would have done to beat those guys. From 3 to 10, we all look the same. One and two, different physiology. Wouldn't matter what I did. I'm never going to beat those guys. And so then I said, okay, I've got as far as I can. I retired and just went full force into our company and what we're doing and advocating around that. And then we got to last year and I came back to prove this as a 50-year-old as opposed to someone who's 30.

So are you saying that basically there is a ceiling to how far you can go because of your genetics? Absolutely. That's good to know.

Look, I'm not going to... Look, I'm 5'8. No matter how hard I train, I am not going to play center in the NBA.

I say these things all the time, and then people fight with me. Well, no, it's not just genetics. I think, yes, you can push yourself beyond limits that you never thought possible. But at the same time, to your point, I'm never going to be a ballerina no matter how hard I try. I mean, I could, but I'm not going to be a good one.

I'm not going to do well as an offensive lineman. I'm lined up against some 300 pound massive dude. He's going to pancake me and I might not ever be able to walk again.

That's 100% true. My entire message in life, and I've written a ton of books on this, is that do the best with what God's given you. I pushed it as far as I can go, and that's as good as I'm going to get, guys. That's basically my point is, do the best you can for what you're given. But if you're a size six, don't try to be a size zero and kill your sofa it, because it's just, A, it won't last. That's the thing. This is what I always want to... I'm telling people now, if you're listening, that, yeah, you can maybe get there, but how much pain and heartache and difficulty will it take you to get from a six to a zero? And then how long can you sustain it? Because you can't, because I've done it. I've taken my body to places where it probably wasn't supposed to be when I had to do crazy campaigns in my life. And then I was miserable, I was starving, and I couldn't have a social life. I didn't have dinner. I had to carry my food around with me. It was awful. Then, by the way, the weight starts creeping up when you have a cracker.

The point, you know what I mean? It's not going to stay. There is a happy medium. Where's your We all have a baseline, and then we can modify it so much here and there. That's my belief system.

To echo that, back in the day when both Matt and I were in Vancouver at the time, coaching the Who's Who in Vancouver, and it was really fun.

Is there a who's who in Vancouver?

Well, for Vancouver, it's certainly not the LA crowd, although there is an interesting- Who is the who's who in Vancouver?

I'm curious. I don't know. Who is?

Well, it depends on who happens to be there at the time.

I mean, also who is a who? Like, are we talking athletes? Are we talking like the hockey team?

The hockey team is obviously legendary, but athletes, chief executive officers of major multinational corporations, people who were- Blablas?

No. Like, who Who's in Vancouver?

Well, for example, the forestry industry. I had some executives from CAMFOR that were involved in the North American trade negotiations. I'm just teasing. I had cycle, like race car, like motorcycle, race car people, the top actors and actresses who were coming into town for periods of time.

Yeah, I'm just teasing. I'm sure there is a who's who.

Yeah, it's not LA.

No. Listen, by the way, I'm sure the who's... I was just teasing, but who's who? I always use that expression, too. I think it's a very Canadian thing to say, the who's who. Yeah, it is. It's a very Canadian- But we're under the big shadow of the United States and Canada.

So all the great comics come from Canada because they're in this observer role. Right. It's so true. They can comment on Canadian or US culture and find it funny, which is not maybe fully recognized by Americans within it, but Canadian because we're so close, we got so much information. But going back there, I used to- Can I say one funny thing about that?

When I was living in LA for many years and then I moved back to Canada for a couple, and I remember when there would be CTV and all the Canadian press would do a story on me or I would do something, all the people, the anchors, or when I would do a morning segment or whatever, they'd be like, She trained all the who's who. Everybody would always say the who's who. That's why when you said that, it just made me laugh.

That's a Canadian thing. Yeah, it's cute. Going back there, one of the things I would ask people, which is related to where we started that conversation about the size six to size zero. Yeah. And this is the $50 million question. I would say to my clients that came in that they struggled for years, whatever the story was, they tried everything, blah, blah, blah, blah, Just math. We can do this. This is not a problem. I've got this down. We're going to take you through it. It's about your ability to adhere and execute to this. You do this, you get there. It's really that simple. But I also used to say, and if you think I'm expensive, this is nothing to the amount of money you're going to spend on your new wardrobe and be excited about that. So don't give me the money deal. But here's the piece that we really want to get into. And that is, what is the benefit that you think you're going to get from being that size zero or being in that condition or looking that way. That's what we got to deal with. Because getting there, you've set yourself up thinking that my external appearance is going to alleviate some internal value.

I can guarantee it's not going to. But what I can say is once you get there and resolve that, then that's when the coaching really begins, because then we're going to zero in on what it is that you think you're going to benefit from that. You think you're going to get the right partner in life. You think you're going to feel confident now. You think that people are going to like you more. Oh, yeah. Almost all of it has some deep down emotional basis that needs to be addressed that has nothing to do with the fitness.

A hundred %. I'm also going to say something, and I'm going to get like, People are going to get on me for this. If I was to be honest, women, girls, would try to get skinny because they think they're going to get a better guy or they're going to date more. Sure. And believe me, when I was younger, let me tell you something, and I'm saying that because I'm a girl, or I think I am anyway, right? I would do those same things. I will tell you this from experience because I think I was telling this to Leroy the other day. 6 or 7 pounds make a big difference. I can go from looking homely with an extra 6 pounds, which I'm now at that point. But anyway, to losing that and having a sick, sick body. I'm just saying I'm being honest, right? Never when I was at that place, have I ever been happier, dated better, had found better guys, dated more. Quite honestly, when I was at my proper body weight, when I wasn't in that only focus to be a certain size and look a certain way, I was happier. I actually dated way better guys.

I never had a problem with that. And it was only when I was in that kooky time, because it starts to screw with your head, and that becomes your focal point. It is not a happy place to be in. And yet, even when people say that, they don't change that. Like, beauty and being sexy, and all of that comes honestly from within. If you're happy with yourself and you exude a certain energy and you put it out there, that's what makes somebody attractive. Like, 5, 10, 15 pounds isn't going to change anybody's life in terms of happiness, success, self-esteem, getting the things that you want, all of that stuff. It's only a silly thing that we say to ourselves in our brain. We think that, but it's not accurate. If we can actually believe that and reframe the way we talk to ourselves, we would all be so much happier and live so much better.

Well, there's a collective programming that we're all subjected to, and it's more pronounced now because of social media. It was what started the whole Jordan Peterson component about your serotonin system and the dominance hierarchy, which we share the same nervous system as lobsters, and it's been around for hundreds of millions of years. And what happens is we unconsciously, based on this ancient neurotransmitter program, determine where we are in the dominance hierarchy.

Yes. Oh, I know. Okay.

And inside of that, that's run on your old brain center, your amygdala. And way down there is your emotional. So what happens, you used to live in a town of 150, 200 people. That was pretty manageable. Now you're living in a world of millions, billions of people on social media. So the young 15-year-old girl is now comparing herself to the absolute elite of the entire planet that has been polished, framed, got everything. And so all of a sudden, no matter how good you are, there's millions of people that look better. And all of a sudden, you start creating your Neurochemistry starts dropping because relative to that, you're like, I'm not even close to that. Now, what does that mean? Excommunication from the tribe meant certain death. And so that dopamine system, we start to overcompensate with our behaviors, trying to move up that so it creates a level of security. And I do believe that females in particular, and that's what the psychological literature indicates, are more negatively impacted from mental health from social media. Oh, For men, I would say it's porn, and for women, it's social media. So porn is now creating a simulation event, a low cost simulation event for men that's not the real thing, but it's close enough that they'll continue to do that because the risk is low.

And for women, validation on social media from their Instagram or their social media account or their OnlyFans account or whatever happens to be that they're doing is giving them a safe transaction of the tension, which is one of the big components that meant survival for them. So it's not the real thing of a real relationship, but it's close enough that people will do that and then it propagates. But there's an internal recognition that says something's not right here. And eventually you get to that point when you go, I know this is unhealthy, and I now realize that I'm in an addictive relation. I'm either as a man addicted to porn or as a female, I'm addicted to social media and all the validation or lack of validation.

I do actually think that a lot of social media can be at some point, at some pages. It's soft porn. I mean, very soft porn. These fitness girls, even though I'm talking like real hard core ones who are basically simulating very sexual videos and the sweat pouring off of them and everything about it is very highly sexual. I actually think it actually does affect men and it does affect women because people don't realize it. And I've said this a lot of times because some of my videos are not exactly so tame all the time, but it's about angles. It's about the lighting. It's about getting the spray tan. It's about wearing the right outfit. Don't shoot me here, shoot me there. And it's not real life. And yet people think that, Oh, shit, I don't look like that. What's wrong with me? I'm not good enough. And the guys are like, why would I want to date Lucy down the street when actually what really is hot is these girls on Instagram, even though it's not even real life. And so everyone's brains are totally clusters fucked because everyone's thinking that what's actually not real is real.

And so nobody's dating, nobody's going out. Everyone thinks that they can do better, they can find better, they can have better, when quite honestly, there's not really anything better. We were much happier in the... I I always say, I wish we were back in 1997 or 2001 when we didn't have all this shit, and we could focus on real relationships and who's in front of us. But now, and it keeps on getting elevated and elevated, we're living in this pseudo reality where now people would just rather be on their phone scrolling because they think that they're going to get that dopamine hit, or they do better than being in real life in real time with people because they think those people aren't attractive enough. It's crazy what's happening.

Yeah, it's a really unique effect. That's why I ran for the date. Yeah, I love it. The physiological components of that, the social impact of that. We didn't understand it. We engaged in an experiment, but the data is in. But going back to the physical aspect. Yeah. So on dating apps, produce a tremendous amount of information.

Are you single, by the way?

What's that? Are you single? I'm with a partner right now. Oh, okay.

So I'm dating. I wasn't trying to set you up.

I was just going. Dating apps are really interesting. Men will swipe. Was it swipe right?

I think swipping right is that they like you.

Yeah, they'll like you.

Left is that you're not.

On 50% of the women that are on there. And women will swipe on 4%.

2.3, actually.

Is it now 2.3? It's probably getting worse because- Do you want me to tell you the stats?

Yeah, give me this. I just did a podcast on this. Okay, do you want to hear how crazy this is?

Yeah, I want to hear this.

Okay, So men who are over 6 feet in the world, guess what the percentage is?

Oh, it's a fraction of it, maybe 1%.

Okay. The percentage of men who are over 6 feet or 6 feet tall is 14.5%. Now, how many men are making over $100,000 a year?

No idea, but it's not that many. I think the average income is somewhere around 38, $45,000 a year or something like that.

I don't remember. Let's say, for example, if I can't remember the exact number, but I'm going to tell you what the stat is. Because women want a guy who is over 6 feet tall, who are making over $100,000 a year. Now, that's not even taking into account how they look. If they're married, if they're obese, it's just how much money they make and how tall they are. Just on those alone, then you're coming down to 2.3%. So women are not swiping on guys who are 5'8, 5'9, 5'10, even 5'11. So everyone's boosting their numbers on top of it. Everyone's just lying. But women have a very particular idea of what they want to go out with. And so men, I don't know what men are doing, but I would imagine it'd be similar, but just on the other side.

Well, I think what people are looking for in the relationship is essentially men are success objects and women are sex objects at its base level. From abiological standpoint. So you can take all the social stuff out of it. A woman produces one egg a month. Men produce trillions of sperm. So sperm is cheap biologically, and eggs are expensive. From a biological standpoint. So let's strip away all the identification, politics, and all that garbage. Let's just get down to biology. Traditionally, it is also in cultures, for the most part of history, it's men that go fight each other. It's men that do the dangerous jobs. It's men that get killed more often, men that are more likely to die. So biology set up as men could try and procreate as much as possible. So their selection before they died. So the average male in the Roman Empire was around 20 years old as help with your life expectancy. Okay?

Wow.

Yeah. All right. So things are rough. In the middle ages, it's like 40. Okay? You don't have a lot of time to sow the seed. So whatever you can get, you just get because you got Because what are we trying to do? We're trying to put our genes out through time from an evolutionary biology stuff. Procury. Right. And then also there'd be these massive fights, and maybe all the men in the village got taken over. So who got left behind? Well, beautiful women. The marauders came in, and so that woman's got two kids. Well, I'm just going to adapt to the new guy because I've got to save these kids.

It's survival is what you're saying.

Yeah. So these are survival dynamics that are inherent in the biology, in the humanness of us. And ignoring those through social constructs is silly. Just like ignoring dietary strategy, metabolic strategy, dietary selection, genetic proclivities, all that stuff. Avoiding all that, you need to understand that and then override it with your intelligence. And that's what separates us from the animal kingdom is that we can leverage our forebrain. But once we get into that hypnotic slice slice, slice, slice, slice, we're hooked into the reptilian brain, the little lower center, and we're just running on pure biology.

I love what you said, though. The men are success objects and women are sex objects. I'm going to take that clip because that is 100% what it is. Because as a girl, again, as a woman, as a girl, you want a guy who is successful, who has... And not just potential to be, or I guess that's good, too, but you You want someone who shows you or demonstrates that they are successful on these apps, right? And for men, you're visual. You want to find a girl who's hot, period. End of story. I'm super excited to share my latest health obsession with you guys. It's called Metabolic Daily by Pendulum. Metabolic Daily is a powerful multi-strain probiotic that really improves your metabolism metabolism, reduces your sugar cravings, breaks down carbs more efficiently, and sustains your energy. I've been taking Metabolic Daily for a few months, and it's unbelievable the results I've seen. Not only do I never struggle with my cravings, but I'm seeing a huge improvement in my body composition from breaking down carbs more effectively. I love Pendolin because they are really disrupting the probiotic market with clinically studied strains that aren't available anywhere else.

They were founded by PhD scientists and are backed by the Mayo Clinic and Halle Berry, who recently became their chief communications officer because of the results that she's seen. They're the only company with, I think I'm pronouncing this correctly, it's called Accra Permancia, a next-generation strain that's called the Keystone Strain for Gut Health. You can get it as a single strain or in Metabolic Daily. Plus, you guys can take 20% off your first month of of any Pendulum product membership with this code, Jenn Cohen. So go now to pendulumlife. Com and use my code at checkout. Trust me, you will feel incredible. So then what happens? Okay, so you're going to say something about these apps. Why is that like... So now we know what the dynamic is. Yeah.

So now, going Going back to the dietary selection, people are driving to improve their desirability on a social app. So for men, they want to be sewn in a nice suit or with a six-pack or whatever. It's like, Oh, well, he's hot, or they might have the metrosexual look so that they're down to a certain way. They wear the sunglasses because it makes facial symmetry part popular. Or they're over at the Hollywood Beverly Hills thing getting their face done or this done. The real metros are getting their nails done because that's relative to feminine awareness on genetic proclivities. When the women are going to look in their best outfit and look really hot and they'll do their poofy lip thing or all that stuff. They're each playing a biological game, and then that's driving their behaviors, both in their diets and their nutrition and their chosen lifestyle, and then how they represent that. These are integrated so deeply in into the subconscious aspects. Unfortunately, most people don't realize it until they're out of the game and don't know why. We have a plethora of... Over 30% of the men right now have not had a sexual partner in the last year.

They're out. They're just doing porn. Hell with it. I don't have 100,000. I'm not in great shape. I don't have great genetics. I'm not going to make the cut. I'd rather just have unlimited simulations which are increasing in their capacity to stimulate men. You think of when I grew up, I remember when we found our first porn magazine, oh, my God, this is what a naked woman looks like or whatever. Now, children are watching hardcore crazy porn. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know what that does to you physically. And also for females in a competitive nature, oh, I need to be like that.

You have no idea. Can I tell you another story? We got so sidetracked on this podcast. We totally I truly did.

I love sidetracked. This is great. My whole life is a Sidetrack. But we have to understand why this is relevant.

Oh, well, listen, let me tell you something. This is real life. I'm fascinated by all of this. To me, I should just do a whole different podcast in terms of, I'm talking a whole different name of a podcast just on the psychology and social dynamics of people because I'm fascinated by it. But I was going to say, I have this friend, God, I'm not going to say his name. I always go through his phone because he's single. He's considered... He's very successful. He's got money. He's got the whole thing going. He's your age, let's say, right? He's hooking up with 22-year-old girls, like hot girls all over the freaking world, and they're throwing themselves at them. Yes. And you can just literally, as a guy, be busy, or if you fit the criteria of the six all day, all night with girls girls who are... They're just so easy. They're just doing whatever they can. I actually even said, I'm like, Is this actually a sugar daddy site? Are they turning into sugar daddy sites? Because these girls, they're hooking up, not even like, Hi, nice to meet you. Clothes are off. Not even, Hi, nice to meet you.

It's, and they're already on the bed. It's that simple now. It's because... Is that the culture we're living in now? There's no discretion, discernment. It's like, if you fit this criteria, we'll do this, but we'll not have a relationship, and then we'll go on our merry way and be on to the next one. This is what's happening.

Well, unfortunately, from a biological perspective, females that have a quicker expiry date. In other words, there's only a certain amount of time that they can sexually reproduce. In other words, procrate their genes. That's young, though, I think, for a girl. It's really young. And so what happens? So maybe a girl is taught, she's like, boss, babe, girl, and let's go be. And there's a lot of more opportunities for women that were precluded maybe in earlier times. So now women can go to university, women can go be in a legal- But they're not going to be.

My point is those girls, I guess I forgot this part of the part of the story, is the girls who are really great quality, who are smart, really strong, not just smart, but successful. They have the whole package. They can't get arrested. And if they're over certain age, they're not getting any swipes.

Well, this is the laws of hypergamy. Okay. And so it's an uncomfortable topic for people. So women don't want to be with their equals. They want to be with someone better.

I talk with her all the time. Okay.

The taller a woman is, the higher her IQ, and the more income she makes, she's also, what she's taught to do by society, you go, girl, you get that PhD, You make the law firm, you earn that half million dollar salary a year or be a boss, babe. You run your site, you do all that stuff. You have the Chanel. You've got the life, you're driving the perfect- Guys don't care. Guys don't care.

They don't care. Do you know how many times I've said to my friend, my guy friend, Hey, I met this amazing girl. She's so this, she's so that. Is she hot? That's what they want to know. Is she hot? Yes or no? How old is she? Is she hot? I'm like, If I even say, Oh, she's 47, 51. But you smoke it. I don't know. Thanks. Next. Who else do you have? Yes. This is the truth. People don't want to hear it. It's not woke to say that, but that is what's happening. Guys want hot. That is what they're looking for. By the way, sometimes when I act too smart, it doesn't work for me. Sometimes I got to act dumb or not that I don't play up my smarts, and I play up my other stuff because I know that it's not going to work to my advantage. I've done that a lot in my life. By the way, in When I start to act like how my actual intelligence, they don't care. They lose interest. They're on to the next one. But if I just flatter you and say how great you are, and I'm like, Oh, my God.

Yeah. Love it. They're lining up. I'm catnip for them.

Well, I think it's a proclivity for a man to dedicate all of his energetics and earning powers and capacity, including his life for his family. I think it's biologically innate into it. And so in order to do that, he wants to have someone who's not really going to challenge him too much, that is going to let him be him and do his thing. And then he's willing to put all his resources off for sexual availability. Now, here's In a complex world, unless you are a musician or a sports athlete, or you inherited a bunch of money with great genetics early in life as a 20-year-old or 25-year-old, to get to the level, whether it's a man or woman, in success in a global competition, guess what? You got to bust your butt for 10, 15, 20 years. Let's say you start out and get your stuff together at 15, 16, 17, 18 years old. You got another 10, 15. So now you're in your mid to late 30s. As a guy, great. He's coming in and he's got decades of biological reproductivity. The girl She's got a few years. She's entering the desperate zone, and now she's in a competition for that guy who is her match IQ, who is her match income, who is her match an attractiveness.

The problem is that guy has got a lot of options, and now she's in a competition that she's likely not going to win. And that's devastating, especially when they've worked so hard on themselves and got fed a lie, essentially, that what is most important in life? And you don't know what's most important in life until you've lived enough of it to realize what's important. And unfortunately, for a lot of women, their time for having children or having a family or that long term relationship is past.

Wade, I totally agree with you. I think that we have all been, especially in today's time, I think what happens is we're living in a different place and people don't want to be offended. They don't want to be insulted. It's all about coddling. It's all about girl power and all these things that is actually probably is It has done the inverse. It hasn't really helped in certain areas of life. That's really what's happened for women, especially. We were given a lot more opportunity, and yet now, because of that situation, yeah, we may be much more financially successful, and we stand on our independent, but it hasn't helped us on the personal life sides. We can say all what we want to say. The truth is, I have friends like this, and they are struggling on the personal life side with dating and all that, and they tell themselves it's fine, and they're happier this way. But I believe a lot of them are just saying that because they don't want to... What are they going to do? You don't want to be... I wouldn't say it's justification, but what are you supposed to say? I was listening to Eric Weinstein, who's an incredibly intelligent guy who's lived at the highest level.

And he said one of the saddest things he's experienced is he has a wide array of the top echelon in women as far as intelligence and competency. And I think that's a great thing for society to have. Competency.

That was the word I was looking for.

I don't care if you're a man or woman or what you identify with. If you're the person that can build a defense mechanism for the country or can figure out the next biological breakthrough or develop some new mathematical thing that allows us to go to another planet, great, cool. I don't care who you are. That's what you want to dedicate your life. But he said he ran into so many women who are just killer on all levels, and they're in their 50s, and they have no family life, no social connection, and there's this huge gap they don't have. And I can say, even in my own case as a man, I spent my entire life chasing excellence and success, and I got it all. I got all of it. And I'm grateful for that. Here I am in my 50s, but I've yet to have a family. I can say that the biggest regret to this point is that I wasn't able to incorporate that along the journey. Now I'm in a race against time. Now, to find a partner that to have my partner be able to have kids and all this stuff. Hopefully that'll happen, but it may not.

That cost is for me, and I can procreate for maybe the next 20, 30, 40 years. That's not the same option for females. And so the part that, yes, men and women are equal, but we're different. And men cannot have children, and women can. And that's it. That's a biological reality. If we can't agree on that biological facts, we're toast as a species. It's not going to work out. So we're probably going to see a massive population decline. They're going to talk about too many people. We're going to see this massive population decline. I suspect we're going to peak around 9 or 10 billion, and then we're going to go into this major deficit. Then there'll be a reemergence of this in maybe the next 10 to 15, 20 years as we start to recognize the fallacy of all that. We'll see that switch back. This is where we're at. So what does that mean for the individual woman? Look, I do believe, put your best foot forward, get in the best shape that you can, look good, but understand the subconscious drivers behind that, and get some coaching around some people without leveling you and tell you straight up, look, you know what?

Maybe he's not 6 feet. Maybe he's not Brad Pitt in his looks. Everybody will dig in. Brad Pitt isn't 6 feet, but most women would date him. He's like my height, maybe a little shorter. Oh, really? How tall are you? I'm like 5'8. Oh, okay. Yeah. So I'm way down on the height scale.

But if you have money for women, you can stand on your wallet. So are you 5'8? Yes. Okay.

Well, there you go. Obviously, though- I'm I'm joking.

I don't want to get an email about that. I'm joking, everybody.

It's true, though, because- I'm saying that as a funny joke. And I noticed that the more successful I become, I'm shocked by the overtures that didn't exist when I looked a lot better and was a lot fitter 20 years ago. I was like, Oh, wait a second. I wasn't quite getting this thing right. You know why?

It's because it goes back to the first point you said, which is survival. Women, even if they're not doing it consciously, subconsciously, it's a survival mechanism. Can this person provide for me? Can they take care of me? Again, I don't know why that's considered controversial to say. It is what it is. I mean, most women, not all women, I want to say a lot of women, not all, a lot, are looking for that. No matter if you can make money on your own, no matter. Listen, I'm capable and competent, but I still want to have somebody who I know is capable and competent and who is successful. It's not a problem. I don't find that to be like, why is that such a bad thing to say out loud? It's not a negative thing. It is human. It's realistic. It's what goes on in a girl's brain, most of us. Not all.

Essentially, women want security and men want respect.

Another good one. It's 100% true.

Women also want to feel chosen. If I'm in a situation, and I've been in areas where there are bad dudes who could probably do a lot of damage to me relatively quickly, guns, knives, violence, gangs, all that stuff. As a man who navigate through that, what do I do? I make sure I give respect to the people who could exert violence, and it's okay. They're usually like, Hey, I see you. That's cool. There's a respect factor. For women, as a man, your design is to create a secure environment. You're not going to threaten her. You're not going to take her part. You're not going chip away at her ego or maybe some of the suboptimal aspects. You're like, I'm with this girl, and I'm going to be supportive and create a shield so she can feel confident and okay in her life.

You know what?

I'm willing to die for that.

Right. You're saying security. Like I said, I'm going to add that. I think women want security. They also want to feel chosen. They don't want to feel like they're just one of the many. They want to be claimed. They want to feel like they feel like a rabbi. My husband told me this. He went to listen to a rabbi speak before we got married, and the rabbi gave him a whole speech about this, not him personally, but everyone. It made a lot of sense, and he told me about it later on. It's true because women do want to feel chosen. You don't want to feel like you are just one of the many, many people, you want to feel special. Girls want to feel special. They want to feel special. They want to feel secure. And guys do want to have respect. I think that's 100% true. And that is the dynamic that make relationships work over time.

All my relationships that ended, ended for one particular reason. At some point, I felt disrespected as a man. That was the be all. As soon as I felt that I wasn't being respected or taken from or whatever, my attraction to that person tanked. I think a lot of the culture now is that we don't need men. Look, men need women, women need men. The only way that you produce children and keep the chain going is you need both partners. Okay? And we do need each other.

But you're right about that. I agree. I'm with you what you're saying. It's like the culture now is we don't need men. That was what I was trying to say earlier.

And the same thing is for a woman, if her security feels threatened, whatever that is represented for her, her attraction drops off significantly. A lot of men will complain as when a man gets down, let's say in life's circumstances, if it's threatening to the woman, she doesn't want to be with that guy anymore. She doesn't even know why she's not attracted. She wants to be, and she'll stand for it for a little bit of time, but then she's like, I don't know if he's going to make it. I don't know what's going on. Maybe it's... Maybe it's a decision. It activates that reptilian brain center. Just like when you see that picture, why do they have a beautiful woman selling cars and carpet and everything? Because as a man, you Carpet. Am I looking at the car? I'm looking at the girl. Oh, it comes with carpet? Yeah, I guess I'll get the car. But every nice car has a female driving it like a sports car or a Range Rover or whatever it happens to be. There's a beautiful girl saying, Check out this. It's Implementing that when you have this status that women will like you.

And there is a certain amount of truth. She's like, Okay, what car does he drive? Where does he live? What clothes does he wear? All the symbols of luxury are actually exuding a level of where I am in the dominant target. I've got a $50,000 watch. I've got a $10,000 suit. I've got $150,000 car. I go to this... A great example of this is Pretty Woman. One of the greatest films about male/female dynamics What is it inside of that movie? Richard Gere comes into the start of that movie, tall, good-looking, and the background is the highest level. He's in the nicest hotel. He's wearing the nicest suit. He's got the nicest car. And so immediately, you would say, This is a high status man. Immediately. The movie has been on for five minutes and you've already pegged who this guy is. If you put Danny DeVito in that part, living in a trailer. Does that movie work? No, it doesn't work because we already have these subconscious assessments biologically. So I'm going to take this all back to the book because we're so far off It's a tangent. The reality is this. You're a male, you're a female.

You've got three seconds to make an impression to see if you got the chops behind it that can make a long-term relationship work. How do you look? Are you presenting your best self? And are you healthy that you could actually reproduce over time? That's the reality. If you want a relationship, you need those three things along with all the psychological and social conditioning. We are in this world, and people do judge you about how you look. That's your marketing, that's your billboard, that's your front of the hotel lobby. Make it count. Put your best self forward. But understand that's not going to keep you in a relationship, but you need to do that. And we figured it all out. It doesn't matter your dietary status, it doesn't matter your age. We can help you get to your best front right off the bat. Simple, easy, and it doesn't matter. You don't have to be plant-based. You can be plant-based, you can be a fit to your macros, you can be keto, you can be paleo, you can be whatever the heck it is. We've obliterated all of the diet guru tactics, which is charismatic figure with a story about how they failed on this thing and then discovered the Holy Grail, whether it's, I ate 50 pounds of butter, I drank 18 gallons of coffee a day, I only ate oranges, whatever it happens to be.

Whatever that story and you resonate with the story like, Oh, that's why it's me. And then you get in it and all theseisms start to emerge out of it and you get taken down the rabbit hole. And I'm so tired of it because I've seen it my whole life. And we're just like, Let's write a book that obliterates all the BS and gives you to the absolute essence of how to figure out what's best for you, genetically, hormonally, socially, emotionally. And what are the obstacles that's holding you back, particularly? And that's the things that you got to knock out the obstacles.

I agree. Now, let's do this. I'm going to ask you the top questions that I think I want you to give me actionable, easy things that people can implement that people can start doing today to get themselves to that optimal place of health with fitness, with nutrition, We've already covered all the other stuff. Are you ready? Sure. Let's hit it. Okay. First question is metabolism boosters. Are there actual ways we can really boost our metabolism?

Yes. Weight training, IV, NAD, which is more relevant the older that you get, atmospheric cell training. What is that? That's like taking your body up to high altitude and then low altitude, which increases mitochondrial density. Rebounding is another thing, which removes lymphatic fluid and increases mitochondrial. Anything that increases mitochondrial density will increase our energy, as well as adding lean body mass, which will improve your basal metabolic rate.

By me jumping on the trampoline for five minutes a day, would that really increase my metabolism? Yeah, it will.

How? Well, your lymphatic system is three and a half times the blood system, and that's the exhaust on your car. It doesn't matter the fuel you're putting in, it's how much exhaust you can get out. Lymph only moves not through hard action, but through pumping. When you jump, say this high, you're going two times your body weight on every single cell of the body, which is pushing out toxins and increasing nutrient absorption, so it's very good metabolically. I prefer 15 minutes a day, 10 to 15 minutes. I use a mini trampoline, and that's probably one of the best ways to stay in shape there is.

Really? Because people laugh at me all the time because I have a bunch of trampolines around my house.

Unparalleled. Really? Yeah. You're using the three forces in physics: gravity, acceleration, and deceleration, and all of those things because your cells can't tell the difference. You're stimulating not just your muscle cells, you're stimulating your organ cells, your brain cells, your nerve cells, all Those are being contracted. And so metabolically, that takes a lot of energy.

If someone jumps on a trampoline three to five minutes a day in between, so they're not sitting all day, does that make a benefit?

Is that beneficial? Yeah. Multiple sessions a day is even better. So take three minutes, go jump up and down. By the way, you can't be unhappy on a trampoline. It's really interesting. That's why kids jump on couches and stuff. They actually inherently know this because it moves lymphatic system, which is your detoxification pathways. David Hall has a seller-sizer program, 10 minutes a day. It's all he does. The guy's fit. He's in his late 60s. He's ripped or shreds. Healthiest muscle I've ever seen.

Really? I've been using it for lower impact stuff.

Yeah, no impact. That's the beauty of it.

Yeah. I mean, there's a company called Jumsport. Have you heard of them? Yeah. They keep on giving me these little rebounders, and I use them. They're amazing. Yes. Okay. I didn't know it actually increases metabolism. Yes, it does. I really love that.

Anything that increases mitochondrial density.

Amazing. Okay. What does neat stand for? N-e-a-t.

Yeah, basically, that's your movement that you're doing. People who have fast metabolisms, they notice that they have a lot more physical movements. They move with their hands and they do all this stuff, and they're fidgety. Maybe they're sitting there watching TV and doing this stuff. When people fast or go through starvation, their non-exercise, was it non-exercise-related activity or activity?

Dormant?

Sedentary? You start to slow down all these energetic aspects. The people that have fast metabolisms tend to be fidgety. The people that have slow metabolisms tend to be very static. That's why movement is key to maintaining your body weight. Keep in mind, like 100 years ago, the World Health Organization recommended 20 miles of walking every day to be healthy. That sounds insane nowadays because that was horse and wagon and everybody walked everywhere. Today, people are lucky if they walk to their car.

It's crazy. There's no one who was obese back then either. No.

You look at all the black and white pictures and there might be the odd obese person or overweight person, but the large majority wasn't. That's quality of the food. They didn't have a lot of access that we had. They didn't have access to refined carbohydrates, processed foods. Eliminate as much of that as you possibly can, especially with food additives, colorings, and preservatives, which are very disruptive from your endocrine system and your metabolic system. Knockout plastics, where our plastics are really bad for us from an endocrine system, the phytoestrogens inside of that to disrupt their metabolism, put us more estrogenic and less embolic. Those things are really bad for us.

Right. Yeah, of course they are. I mean, that's why people have now... People try not to drink in a plastic bottle anymore, right?

Yeah, microwaving your plastic.

Microwaving the plastics, all that. But I mean, it's not measurable, but we know it all cumulatively in our body.

Well, we know that testosterone levels are dropping. The average 20-year-old today has the testosterone levels of a 70-year-old man in the 1970s.

Is that because of all the plastics and the phytoestrogens? Phytoestrogens, yeah. What would you say is the number one superfood out there right now that we should be eating every single day?

Protein.

That's not really... Well, that's a food- If you're talking metabolism and maintaining your shape, yeah, protein, because it takes a lot of metabolic activity to break down protein, and protein has high satiety.

In other words, it makes you feel full. If you look at all of the successful people, they really concentrate on ensuring they have sufficient amounts of protein because that keeps you from eating too many carbs or too many fats.

What would be your number one protein source?

For me- Because you're a vegan. I was asked that earlier today, and I would say that hemp is my number one, pees is number two, and beans is number three for me.

Really? In what form do you eat hemp?

I actually made my own plant protein. We did 170 different versions, and I do pea, pumpkin, and hemp. The primary ingredient is hemp. But we alleviate, we boost the amino acids with pea because you get more amino acids with less carbohydrates with pea. Then the pumpkin smoothes it out so it doesn't smell like a barn or taste like dirt. It tastes really amazing. I have literally getting ready for the the Natural Olympia. I had chocolate every day for breakfast.

Was that like a bar?

No, I mix it all up in a pudding. I literally mix it all up into a pudding. I literally eat chocolate pudding every day for breakfast to get ripped.

Are you kidding me? No, I'm not kidding. I want the recipe. I'll give you the recipe. Okay, so you don't have it.

Why don't you make it into like- I got it on a video. We can send the video to you.

Yeah. Why don't you make it into a biooptimizer product?

It is a biooptimizer product. We have a protein breakthrough, the chocolate. Sounds amazing. We have world-class cacaos because we're like chocolate connoisseurs. I love chocolate.

Can you send me some so I can try it?

I'll send you some. I'll show you how to do the recipe. Believe me, it's the best way to knock out the chocolate cravings when you're on a calorie restrictive diet.

Basically, you're telling me that you sell it as a product, but you're giving people the recipe so they can make it on their own.

No. The formulation is I take the protein powder and then I mix it with a little bit of BIOHM breakthrough, and then I'll add a little bit of Nutopia, which is a mushroom blend. I put these combination and I make this radical chocolate pudding that enhances your neurochemistry, cuts your cravings to the and feeds you a wide array of amino acids that support your exercise and performance. I literally did that every day on the way to the Olympia.

What's the breakdown? How much protein versus carbs versus calories, blah, blah, blah?

You're looking at about A 50/50 split on protein, carbohydrates with a 10% fat intake.

Okay. What's the calorie count for that?

Well, depending on the serving size that you would have, would be about 300 to 350, depending depending on how you like to mix it.

Oh, my God. I can't wait to try that. That sounds delicious, actually. It's really good. It really does sound delicious. It's addictive. I mean, it sounds amazing.

It's a healthy addiction. We try to build healthy addictions.

That's okay. I don't mind healthy addictions. Tell me, how can somebody lose fat and build muscle at the same time? What's the easiest way to implement for the average person right now?

We talk about that in the book, specifically, because that is the Holy Grail. I would suggest a strategically built weight training program for your genetics, your capacity at whatever age that you happen to be. The second thing- 29. What's that? Exactly. So inside of that, then probably four protein servings a day. So four meals a day with a focus on your protein content. Calorie restriction, actually six days a week. In other words, you want either anywhere between a 250 on the low side to a 1,000-calorie max deficit, which should be half from your metabolism. In other words, so if you have a 2,000-calorie-a-day metabolic rate, you would say, and I want to have a 500-calorie deficit?

Deficit.

Okay, I'm going to have 250 of that from my diet and 250 of that from an increase in exercise, largely from weight training. Okay? And then once a week, I'm going to spike the calories to double what my daily intake is because that's going to create an anabolic response with a focus on carbohydrates. You'll get an insulin response, and the deficiency in the insulin will pump up all your muscles. You'll feel full and you'll look great, and it'll suck all the water into the tissues and take it out of the extraneous stuff that makes you look bloated, and boom, you'll be ready to go.

Okay, so let me just make sure I understand this. To build muscle and lose fat simultaneously, the best way to do this is one day a week, go into a calorie deficit.

Every day a week that you want six days a week of a calorie deficit of anywhere from 250 to 1,000 a day, and then one day of a calorie spike of double your calorie intake.

Okay, so then deficit on those six days and then the one day. So basically it's cycling, isn't it? That's right.

So you're spiking your metabolism and you're providing enough calories that your body is not in an emergency state and that you're able to feed your muscles while burning the body fat throughout the week.

Do you know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of old-school just fitness. Yeah, it is. It's old-school fitness.

This was figured out 30 years ago.

And by the way, it's the basics that actually work. People are looking for the magic pill, all this kooky information. But the reality is the things that worked 30 years ago is exactly the same things that work today.

Well, that's the novelty bias that's required in social media distribution. I got to come up with some new crazy idea that's going to save the world, and most of them aren't.

Are you also a believer in doing five small meals a day versus- Most people in today's world, that's not realistic.

I think that they- Fasting now is obviously the big thing. Yeah, and that has metabolic costs overall if you're not strategic. So I fast one day a week, but I also spike one day a week. So I do about a 36 to 40 hour fast one day a week, and I have one day a week where I'm putting in 5,000, 6,000 calories a day of just the worst stuff you could possibly imagine. I love it. I'm eating chips and chocolate bars and enjoying the UFC fights and yelling at the screen and drinking mad amounts of kombucha. I got my volcano going and I'm smoking tobacco with CPD and herbs and just having a great old time of just full on. I'm making mock tales for my friends with all different herbs. We do this every week and I have the best party ever. All of the buzz, none of the fuss, all the calories, none of the smell. Then boom, I'm back on my program and I'm able to stay in and healthy at 50 years old. All my biomarkers are incredible, and I just tweak from there.

Basically, though, it's about just constantly just confusing your body.

There's a consistency.

It's muscle confusion.

You want a consistency within your daily actions with strategic components of restriction or excess. If you know how to play that game, this is what gives you the most options. We don't believe that there's any evil foods. We believe that there's any evil diets or any evil people or any of that stuff. When you start labeling things like that, you start restricting yourself. I personally believe, and as does Matt, that as you get healthier and more vibrant and more fit, you open up your options as opposed to restriction. Restriction works for a period of time to get yourself an order. But after that, you want to expand your options in life and you want to live guilt-free, and you want to be able to know that, Oh, you know what? I'm going out for that date with my significant other on Friday night. I'm going to eat just two protein servings that day, right? And that night, I'm going to have that two glasses of wine. I'm going to have the cheese plate. I'm going to have the creamy French sauce on top of my whatever I'm eating. I'm not going to worry about it because the next morning I'm up, I'm on my program, and I can look forward to that without any aversion, and I can make that connection that I'm not freaked out about my food all the time.

But what if we just did, instead of doing the six days of a deficit to that one day of a huge spike, could we also do one day of fasting and one day of spiking it? What you're doing?

You can, but if you have the genetics that work for fasting. In most people, I would rather them start with the basics first. At first, they might have to do two weeks or three weeks before that spike day if they really want to get to their weight loss quickly. I don't recommend going more than a month without a refeed day. And the reason is, is psychologically-It's a refeed day. Well, refeed is like a spike day. I don't call it cheat days. I don't think that's a great component. It's a refeed day. And then so you say, okay, I really want this chocolate cake. I really want these chips. I really want these chocolate bars, whatever. We're going to wait till refeed day. And I'm going to write that down and listen, I'm going to buy all that stuff and I'm going to eat about a quarter of it.

Yeah, it's a great idea.

Yeah. And so then you start to learn delayed gratification. Delayed gratification is the key to success in everything. Then as you get closer and closer, once you get to your weight, then that's when I would start using fasting and feasting as a component. If you're relying too much on fasting, the tendency is to overdo it and destroy your metabolism. That's what most people end up doing. All the people that were talking about intermittent fasting and stuff three or four years ago, they've all changed their tune because they all started losing muscle and gaining body fat after a couple of years.

I agree. I also think I was going to say something else about that, that I see it working on men very well with the fasting, with the intermittent fasting. I have not, to be honest, and I could just be because of my own life and world, but I haven't seen many women adopt it and do well with it. Is that accurate, too?

Well, generally because they're applying a male-centric version of fasting. So it's better for women to eat in the morning if they're doing intermittent fasting, as opposed to eating later in the day. So men have high testosterone levels in the morning. If women don't eat in the morning, they start setting off all emergency mechanisms that disrupt their hormones. So they're better to eat in the day and cut their food at three o'clock if they're going to do intermittent fasting. But as a long term strategy for weight loss, that has some serious limitations. And so I would say a little bit of fasting or periodic reasons for detoxing. But as an overall strategy, it's going to break down after a year or two. I use it specifically because I understand the mechanisms of both spiking and restriction. And I have genetics that are really good for fasting.

So I feel like this is when we have to say, again, I think I've said this at the beginning, was the genetic test. We need to do a genetic test to know where we are. Do you guys have a genetic test? I know Gary Brecka talks about genetic tests a lot, but a lot of people have these.

We've used a variety of different tests, and they all have strengths and weaknesses. We will be releasing very shortly one that we feel is the most encompassing from the principles we've put in the book because frankly, none of the genetic tests did them all. And what we've done, Matt and I, is we've taken all of them and then compiled it and then got our genetic experts to sort through all these things to see patterns. And there's certain patterns that are not included because it really comes down to the algorithm that they're applying. So a genetic test that's based on true age for longevity is different than, say, what the DNA company might be doing for disease prevention.

So which one would you say I should use? If I want to go tomorrow and get us to... Yeah, a genetic test.

Yeah, true age, DNA, those ones are pretty good.

Then is it a swab or is it blood?

Yeah, usually it's swab.

Okay, because that gives you an indication. But I want to know when you have yours out, I'd love that. Are there supplements that you actually believe that help with appetite suppression or with fat loss, or you think that's a bunch of garbage?

They can. Here's the way I look at supplements in general. You cannot supplement your way out of a poor diet and lifestyle. Neither can the best diet and lifestyle reach its full potential without supplements. The right supplement for you is going to be specific to your suboptimal genetics. So if you have trouble, say, metabolizing vitamin C, a vitamin C supplement is going to have tremendous effects for you. If you are dark skin and you're not getting a lot of light, you probably better get on a vitamin D supplement, and you want to get that vitamin D to a 7,500 on a scale, because if you don't, that's where your immune system is operating at its best. Someone like me can go out in the sun. So my partner has dark skin. She needs 6 to 8 hours of sunshine to make the same amount of vitamin D that I can pull off in 15 minutes of sun exposure. I'll go and fry after an hour and she's fine. She's got a beautiful 10 after an afternoon in the sun. I would be burnt to a crisp. 100%. I have to toggle how much sun I get, but that's relative to my capacity.

When you have a genetic test, you can see those things and then selectively target the supplements that are going to give you the most effect. We talk about this in the Bell Curve distribution and how the rights, the people who are advocating a supplement, that supplement was the perfect thing to offset their genetic limitations. The people that had almost killed them or caused the disease or made them get fat was the people that it was the opposite thing that they should be testing. Those become the haters and the other people become the testimonials. This cycle keeps repeating and it's like, none of that's relevant to you. Once you know your stuff, you know your stuff and it's like, I know that I need B12. I know that I don't need as much vitamin C as a lot of people because I metabolize vitamin C. I know that I get vitamin D really well. I also need to make sure that I get enough stuff that creates satiety in my body because I'll over eat. I have a suboptimal gene.

I'll just over eat. What do you take? Because I have that... I also need to have... There's a neurotransmitter in my brain that doesn't tell me when I'm full. Is there something to supplement for that or how do you control that? Neutrophix. That helps us with satiety.

I find neutrophix, particularly things around the serotonin system, seem to be more advantageous for me on that. So oftentimes I'll use neutrophix to offset my appetite. If I use caffeine, that will backfire down the road because it throws off my HBA access. So over time, I'll produce too much cortisol or I'll need the coffee to get going in the morning. What I've found for me is using non-stimulating newtropics, which improve my serotonin system, has an over-hour effect of keeping me so I don't feel hungry. The other thing is making sure that I get protein early in the day. I take two big servings early of protein a day, one in the morning, one before noon, and that keeps my appetite in check. If I don't do those things and start on the carbohydrate train without any protein, I'm off on that roller coaster forever. That's just my genetics. Now, Matt, my business partner, he likes to eat infrequently, but a ketogenic diet because he metabolizes fats very well and not carbohydrates. So he's built a system around what he likes, what's good for his brain, and he likes the stimulants early in the day. So he'll take a high impotency, neutropic and some caffeine and some stimulation and a little bit of fat with that fat, soluble vitamins and things like that gets him going, where I have to do a completely different strategy than that.

But I do believe more people are like you and like me, where we don't feel... Anyway, I don't feel full. I don't get that neurotransmitter. It doesn't tell me, Oh, yes, Jennifer, stop eating nine pounds of grapes, even though it's healthy. Because I think a lot of times you tell yourself, Oh, it's healthy. I can eat I can eat more and more of it, but it's still calories and it's still too much food. So you're saying a N utropic. Is there a N utropic that I can take?

We have a whole array of N utropics, and we do a test that you go on to. Our company is called N utopia. Then you select the customized optimize N utropics for your individual brain.

It actually works. It's not BS.

All of our products have 100% money back guarantee. It's why we've been in business for 20 years. If it doesn't outperform every single product you've ever taken, we get your money back.

We have a lab with-I'm going to be the judge of that, Wade. Yeah, please do. Please send it to me because I will try it. If it works, I will scream from the rafters because I feel like a lot of people have the same situation. You eat out of boredom, you eat out of emotional eating. You're not even hungry. We got to turn off that mechanism in our brain. Because what do you think about Ozempic, like the GLP-1 inhibitors?

There's two things to it. I think, first off, it's amazing technology, and it is certainly widespread effective in helping people curb their appetite and lose weight. Where I think the gap is, is just not Yeah, that will get you to a certain place. But what do you do once you're there? You can't maintain that program. Then when you go off the drug, now there's a massive rebound effect. It's a little bit of a deal with the devil. One of the things that I'm actually working on right now is a GLP-1 inhibitor detox program. In other words, let's say someone has implemented that in their life, and how did they get down to that point? Then how did they wean off it while submitting to a dietary plan that's going to be good for their metabolism, good for their health, so that they can go off the drug and continue on? I don't think that living on any drug for an extended period of time from a toxicity aspect of our liver enzymes of it is a good idea or a good strategy long term. I do believe that there is going to probably be over time a wide variety of conditions that emerge out of it.

I think it's such a deep topic, but I think we can also get out of it. I think that if people are using that, I still think that they want to do their genetics, monitor their toxicity levels, and then figure out how they're going to come off it.

I think that's great advice. I think that the rebound effect, it's real and people don't talk about it enough. Also, a lot of people tell me that they're nauseous when they take it. There's a lot of side effects that can happen as well. I think because it is new-ish for people, they don't know what the whole- Yeah, we have no idea what the long-term effects are. The long-term effects are. It's also not teaching somebody a lifestyle, which is the other problem. It's not a behavior lifestyle. It's just shutting off a part of your brain for a finite period of time. I was going to say something. I know you got to run. I know this podcast has gone way longer than we both thought. We can always pick it up again for another piece because I really do have so many questions for you. You are a well of information. You are so well-versed in everything. There's not one part of the health, fitness, nutrition space that you don't have a million answers for. And that's why this book has been a real... I really enjoy just even whipping through it because literally every page of it, I'm learning something from a different perspective because it's not like every other book out there, really.

I'm not just saying that because you're a guest on my show. That's why you are a guest on the show, actually, is because I really enjoy it. As you said earlier before we started taping it, it's more of a reference guide than an actual book.

And a defense mechanism between... Matt, Matt and I have been in this industry our whole lives since we were teenagers. We've put tens of thousands of clients that we've coached over 60 years of collective experience. He's been a marketer for years. We've been in the industry forever. We've seen all the rise in cycle of that, and we see where people get hooked. We've heard all the challenges. I've got thousands of testimonials on what went wrong for people. What we did is, how do we create a complete system that people can go, Oh, is that happening? Let's check with the reference guide. Let's check with the reference guide and see what's getting done.

I didn't even get to slow carb dieting, dopamine looping. I have so many questions for you. You have to do this again. Yes. Listen to what I'm saying we're going to have to do a part two. Guys, this reference book is really phenomenal. If you're You're someone who is interested in taking up... If you're serious about really taking your health up a notch and learning real ways to optimize yourself, not just nutrition, but fitness. There's so many different actionable tactics in here that are actually very practical for the average person. Like you were saying, you took a lot of information from a gamut of people, and you're using great reference points, and there's diet plans. I mean, it's really amazing. How to succeed on a paleo diet, a keto diet. If you're fasting, it's endless. I know. We got to wrap it. All right, Wade, you've been a pleasure. Thank you for coming on. We're going to do part two. Where could people find more information? We didn't even get to the supplement part, which is a whole other area that I heard was very good. Sure.

I believe they can just go to bioptimizers. Com. You believe? Yeah, bioptimizers. Com. They can put in your code and get a 10% discount on the ultimate nutrition system.

I don't have a code.

I think they'll have one here on the show notes.

Oh, are they? Okay.

We'll have one generated for you.

Perfect.

Okay. Yeah, we're available over there. You can get the book, get the course. We got all the social media stuff, all that stuff. Amazing. We got a great team around it. I've got real people that answer the telephones, that answer the text. Humans. Yeah, I built customer service system. We're very customer-centric. 100% money back guarantee on everything that we do for 365 days. If it doesn't work, we want your money back. We want to hear what happened to you, and maybe we can help you out. If not, that's okay. We get your money back, redeploy it for somewhere else. Number two, you talk to real people that I've trained personally to answer all the questions. If they haven't got the 8,000-question profile that I've built, and if that isn't answered there, I answer that question directly for you.

Wow. Okay, Wade, you're coming back on this show, I hope. I hope so, too.

This has been a lot of fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. We went down a whole tangent, but that's cool because I think essentially, why do we want to be fit? Why do we want to be healthy? Why do we want to be sexy? Why do we want to be successful? Is ultimately so that we can be loved. At the end of the day, love is the connection behind all things that we really want. We just want to be loved, appreciated, connected, safe, secure, and we want to create a great generation for everybody else. We all have that common element. We're just all trying to get there in different ways.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you very much. This episode is brought to you by the Yap Media Podcast Network.

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