Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

This is not the typical podcast we typically do at all, but we have a very nice gentleman named Dawn, and you've pronounced your last name, Steers, right? That's how you pronounce your last name? That's- All right.

Yes, that's it. All right.

And he's the President of the West Minister Dog Show, which I've been very fascinated by because my favorite movie, one of my favorite movies of all time, was Best in Show by Kristen for a Guest, which was an amazing satire with Fred Willard and Catherine O'Hara. And because of that, I have a million questions about what makes a dog best in show, How do you even become part of this whole, I guess, phenomenon? You were also a junior handler, which was for many years in a row. Can you just talk about your background, about how How does a dog become mess and show? I want to know everything. Start from the beginning.

Okay. Once upon a time, there was a little boy. I grew up doing this. Actually, it all started because my sister was afraid of dogs. My parents felt the best way to get her past that was to get a dog. The neighbor had a really wonderful golden retriever. They thought that would be perfect. We got a golden retriever puppy named Shera, and the breeder invited us to a puppy match, which is like a practice dog show. I was eight years old, and they put the leash on the puppy, and they told me to go in the ring and just do what the judge told me to do. I loved it. I thought it was really, really cool. We didn't win, but it was a really fun activity. I really connected with the dog, and it gave me something to practice and do. I, unfortunately, was one of those kids who got bullied in school. It came along at just the right time that it gave me something to look forward to. I got home, and my parents started taking us to dog shows on the weekends. It really became a family hobby. We realized that Sheriff was not really a show-quality dog, and we'll get more into that talking about what makes her best in show dog.

They got another golden retriever named Copper, and she was show-quality, and she became a champion. That was my dog that I showed in Junior Showmanship. I also started competing pretty quickly in the confirmation classes with adults and professionals. I was doing the junior thing and the adult thing all at the same time, which really, I think, upped my game because I had to compete with pros, which is It was a really cool thing about the sport that professionals and amateurs compete together, which is unusual. I did that show dogs. It was really successful. It was a great balance for me because all those school days were sometimes challenging. Like I said, I had the dogs after school, and then we'd go away on the weekends to a place where I was successful and people liked me. It really was a great balance. I think that's what my parents saw and why they encouraged it and provided it. Then fast forward, I ended up becoming a judge. I've judged all over the world. It's taking me places I would never have gone otherwise, for sure. I have friends from all over the world. I've judged at Westminster 10 times.

I judged Westminster's Best in Show in 2022, which was really the pinnacle of my judging career. I was on Fox Sports as the analyst for the show for about five years. Here I am now President of Westminster. You would think that that's my life, but I actually had another life while all this was happening. My real life, my real career, as I went to school and graduate school, and I have a doctorate in clinical psychology. My career was based on working with children and adolescents and their families, have behavioral and emotional challenges and so on. While that was happening, all this other stuff was happening at the same time. I'm really grateful. I've had a very full life and a lot of success in lots of different ways. That's my background. That's why you're talking to me, I guess, about all of this. I have a history with Westminster. I have a history with the sport, and it's in my blood. That's where I'm at now and exciting. We're talking now because next week- I love that. Yeah. It's Westminster Kennel Club's 148th show next week, May 11th, for the 14th, at the Billy Jean King Tennis Center.

So much history with Westminster. It's the second continuously running sporting event in the United States. It's second only to the Kentucky Derby. We're coming up on our 150th. This weekend is the derby's 150th. Westminster's 150th is in 2026. We've already started working on that. We'll really make a big deal out of that.

You know it's really funny that you just said that. Finally enough, My husband is very involved in the Kentucky Derby. He's had multiple horses that have been in the Kentucky Derby, not a single owner of a horse, but very intriculately involved, other people as well. He's actually there right now because it's the 150th anniversary. It's a huge year right now for the Kentucky Derby. By the way, he knows as much as I do about a horse, which is very little. But that's funny that you just said that, the Kentucky Derby. But I was going to say a couple of things. The fact that you're also basically a child psychologist, which really was something that I didn't even know, really, until you just mentioned it, which is interesting because I do a lot of work with building self-confidence and self-esteem with children. It's actually a big priority of mine, and I'm involved with a lot of different ways of doing that. Is there a connection, just because we're talking about dogs and about pets, I should say, between a child who owns a dog or owns a pet, a correlation and their mental health versus a child who does not own a pet?

I definitely think there's a correlation. I don't know if I necessarily go too far to say as things are causal, but I think there's a I think dogs present a non-threatening connection for children that they might otherwise find challenging with other children or other adults. I had a number of programs going in the last school district that I worked in. I ended up as a superintendent of a school district at the end of my career and bringing my clinical knowledge into programming, so to speak. One of the things we did was to actually dogs into the school who were in the classrooms. One of the most fabulous things was to see children in two different ways. One, from a social skills point of view, really finding the dogs as a way to connect with other children because they're both engaging with the dog and there's something there that makes it easier and more comfortable. It's almost like they've got a special buddy that makes them connect with other kids. Then also in reading, having children reading to dogs is a It's a phenomenal thing. Struggling readers often really pull back and are very uncomfortable reading aloud and reading a class and so on.

You put them off in a private spot with a dog, and all of a sudden, these children who would never read aloud are all of a sudden reading to the dog. I think even as an adult, like I know, dogs definitely calm me down. I tend to be a pretty energetic, high, slightly functional, OCD, anxiety guy. My dogs definitely are able to bring me down and calm me down when I come home from a long day. There's something about that, that touch, that connection, that tactile stimulation where you're holding a dog or petting a dog. I think the personal part of it, that here's this creature that just thinks, Sure, the best thing that ever happened. All they want from you is love, and they give so much in return. I think I think pets, especially dogs, because of the way that they connect with humans and always have. From back in the caveman days, there was always a dog. It started out as domesticated wolves. Dogs have always been a part of the human experience. There's a reason for that. They bring comfort, they bring joy, they facilitate tasks that humans encounter. I think there's a lot there from a psychological, social-emotional, behavioral point of view where dogs really do bring something to the table that nothing else does.

Well, there's a reason, I suppose, that dogs are used as an emotional support for people when they... That's what a lot of people have dogs with them, even adults, whatever. But I wanted to know. I was very curious about the correlation at a young age. If it does anything to the neurotransmitters in your brain, if you grow up with the a dog if it basically fosters certain character traits versus someone who does not grow up with a dog. I've always been fascinated by that.

Yeah. In my experience, I think in particular, you were talking about working with children with regards to their self-esteem and their confidence. I think that was a big piece of it for me to have something in my life where a place where I shined. I think that's really important for all kids that don't necessarily have to end up ranked number one the country or win an Olympic medal, but there's something that they do that they feel good about that makes them feel good about themselves, where they shine. And that's what this was for me, and I think it can be for lots of children, is just having something like that. And even just from the extent of learning what it's like to have responsibility and commit to something and be responsible for something. And I think all of that, for me, came from those experiences. I don't think that was the point of it at the outset, but when I look back on it, that along with meeting people from all different walks of life, when you sometimes are getting these activities, you meet people, whether it's dogs or horses or soccer or whatever, you meet people where the only commonality is that common interest that you're doing so that you would not otherwise interface with.

I think that's always great, especially for kids, to be exposed to people from lots of different walks of life, because that's the world they're going to encounter when they get out there as an adult. I think there's lots of levels to this. We could probably talk for hours, Cham. I love it.

I love that. I know, but that's not even what... I just wanted to ask you that, even though that wasn't exactly the reason why I was having you on, but I think it's a very important area. All right, so then how does a dog... Let's get down to the nitty-gritty for a moment here.

Yes.

Do people have to work... Does a dog have to work their way up to be even in the best in show pageant? What's the levels here? And how do people even... Me just find, basically, getting a dog at the shelter and then training him, that's obviously not going to fly.

Right. Yes. I think it all would start with if that's something a person wanted to pursue is competing in dog shows, confirmation classes, because there's all kinds of dog sports, like agility, obedience, dog diving. But confirmation where they're judging the dog and its qualities based on the standard, you want to get in touch with a breeder and contact somebody who's reputable who also shows their dogs.

Wait, what are the standards?

Here we go.

The standard is- I need to know the nitty-gritty. This is the point.

Here we go. Each breed has a breed standard that's approved by the American Kennel Club. The breed standard is created by the parent club for that breed, like the Golden Retriever Club of America creates the standard, and then the American Kennel Club approves it. When you're going in the ring as a judge, you're supposed to be using that standard. What the standard does is it talks about the overall appearance, it talks about proportion, height, weight, coat, texture, color, the shape and color of the eye, the size and placement of the ear. It's really detailed. I was referred to it, it's like the blueprint for a house. Then that gets flushed out by the dog's condition, the dog's showmanship, the performance, that thing. All of that is something that you have to take into account. If you want a show dog, you want one that's going to pass muster, that it's least going to represent the basics of a breed standard. Then you go from there to You've got your puppy, you've contacted a breeder, you've got this puppy with the hope of it being a show dog. Now the most important thing is the raising that puppy to be a show dog, which to a great extent is socialization, which we want them to be really confident and on shore of themselves.

It's about mental and physical health. The physical health is nutrition. Purina Proplan is a sponsor of ours, and they have a wide array of foods for dogs. They have all shapes and thousands and ages. You find a food that's going to work for your dog across time. Exercise, much like we take care of ourselves. I know fitness is your thing, and it's the same thing for dogs. Sure, they be show dogs, they're athletes, and so they have to be conditioned and prepared to compete. And so there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes of getting them ready for that. And so fast forward to the Westminster Dog Show and what it takes to be able to compete at Westminster. Westminster is the only dog show that's a champions only event. So the dog would have to have achieved its championship status, which means it's earned 15 points that they get through winning shows. And so right out of the gate, Westminster, high-level competition, it's only champions. So you're being the best of the best. They go in to compete first on their breed level. So all the golden retrievers compete together, all the collies compete together, all the chihuahuas compete together.

And the judge picks one as the best of breed winner. That best of breed winner proceeds to compete in its variety group. So to break it down, there are 201 breeds recognized by the AKC, and then there are seven variety groups, and those 201 breeds are divided into those seven groups. The best of breed winners go into their respective groups, and the judge in the group picks a dog as the winner, and then those seven group winners compete for best in show, which if you remember the movie right at the end, there was an array, probably six or seven dogs in there that competed. They all came from separate groups, like the bloodhound from the hound group and the nortz terrier from the Terrier group and so on. That is exactly what it is. That's exactly how it works. Then the judge picks, obviously, one dog as a best in show winner. That's how it rolls out.

Oh, my gosh. How much time is dedicated to train a dog? You're saying you have a full-time... You have an actual career in a life, like you were saying. Yes. Do people Are there people now who are breeding these dogs? Is it their full-time job to do this?

Some yes, some no. There are a lot of people like me who it's a hobby, it's not a business. There are professionals who, yes, it's their job and they do it full-time. But a lot of people, it's their hobby. You take care of the dogs in the morning and you come in from work and it's the first thing you do when you get back is attending to things like feeding and exercising and grooming and conditioning, all that thing. It's a daily responsibility. If you got a dog that you're taking out to compete with, just like if you were an athlete, you really can't take too many days off or things start to slide. It's a real commitment when you've decided to do that. But it's fun. There are different breeds depending on how much time you want to put in. If you're really into the grooming and the hair, then you're okay with that and you have the time, then you're going to choose a breed that's a little more high maintenance, coat-wise. But if you don't, you might want to pick a short-coated breed that's wash and wear that you don't have to put as much time into on that scale.

I think that's a really important piece when people are making a decision about getting a dog, is to do that homework as far as... Dogs should never be an impulse acquisition. You need to think about most dogs are going to live a life anywhere from 12 to 15 years of age. It's a long-time commitment, and you want to be there forever home. You want to give it a lot of thought as to does your lifestyle accommodate How can you accommodate a dog? And what dog? What size of dog does your living space? How much activity do they need, and so on. Then you add to that, this aspiration of being a show dog takes it to an even another level of responsibility and commitment. There's a lot going behind the scenes. So these dogs that you'll see competing at Westminster next week, those are dogs that are being engaged on a daily basis with regards to the preparation for the competition. That being said, I think one of the misinterpretations is that show dogs are not just these animals who get put on a pedestal during the week. They look pretty perfect and fabulous and all that in the show ring, but they go home and they're somebody's pet.

They're laying on the couch, they're hanging out. That's, I think, the thing that people don't expect to hear. They think they lead some glamorous life, which is often the case with celebrities. We have this idea of them leading these amazing lives, and it's like, Well, most of them live the same lives we do, just maybe a little bit more affluent.

Right. Or the dog is like, Yeah, or that is their job, right? They have to be on that. That's when they perform, right? Yes.

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Okay, so how much did they win? How much does the Best in Show dog win?

There's no money prize involved at all. What? And I think that's a pretty amazing thing with regards to the show. Yeah, it's all about the prestige of the win. That's really what it is. To go Best in Show at Westminster is probably everyone showing dogs that's their dream. For some people, not even to win, it's just to show there because it's not even always easy to get in because it's a limited entry. And so we often draw more entries and have to do a lottery to get in. So even just to get in, some people are so excited that their entry got in. They haven't even gotten to show yet, and they're excited because they just got in. So, yeah, that's what it's about. The bragging rights.

So the bragging rights. Okay, so how do you mentally train a dog? Like you were saying, it's very similar training to a person, right? You got to eat properly, you got to exercise all the time. That's all part of your mental strength. What other similarities between a human human and a dog are there in training tactics for building basically a high-performing dog?

Yeah, I think one of the things is definitely socialization because they need to be used to unusual noises, unusual situations, strangers, and so on. The more they can get out and socialize as a puppy and a young dog, the better prepared they're going to be. Also, part of it's their genetic predisposition to having a solid temperament. But a big part of it is that. Then the other part is the performance, which I always viewed as if I was choreographing a performance on stage. When I would practice with my dogs, I would imagine, Okay, we're in the ring, and this is what's going to happen first, and this is what's going to happen next. Much like athletes do. When they do that visualization of the race or visualization of what they're participating in, that it's creating that experience for myself as the handler and also for the dog. That, okay, when we go around in a circle and we come back, it doesn't mean we jump around and goof around. We come back and we want to get standing and posed as quickly as we can. When are we going to take our rest? When are we going to let down a little bit?

When is the judge not looking? We can grab a few breaths. When we come back to the judge from gating, what are we going to do? Which hour are we going to come straight on? Are we going to turn sideways? All of that is choreographed in somebody who's successful. That's the stuff that goes into the for the competition.

What dog, in your opinion, they all say that golden retrievers have the best temperament, right? Is there one particular dog that tends to win more often than other dogs for best in show, or What dog would you say does have the best temperament that is the easiest, that makes the best pet?

I want to know it all. Well, you are correct. I think most people would acknowledge that the Golden Retriever has the most solid temperament, and that's why they're so popular and so loved. They are or should be a dog that really is eager to please. There are some breed that are very smart, but they're more independent thinking, or they could be a little stubborn or a little aloof and so on. Golden retrievers are all about making their owner happy and whatever that takes. From that point of view, they're really easy to train, typically. That's why you see golden retrievers do extremely well in a lot of the performance events, because they're very biddable and very easy to reinforce, that thing. So I would say that that rings true. As far as winning best in show at Westminster, that also comes, well, how come a Golden Retriever has never won best in show at Westminster if they're the best dog to live with? I don't know the answer to that. Golden Retrievers have won the sporting group a few times. They just have never taken home the top prize. Maybe this year, anything can happen. But yes, I think In early history, Terriers ruled supreme at Westminster.

When you go back in the show records, a lot of the early best in shows were Fox Terriers, Wire Fox Terriers, Sluve Fox Terriers, and so on. But I think that was more because they were the prototypical show dog at that point, and there were much fewer breeds competing at that point. As the show evolved and as the sport evolved and there are more breeds competing, in more recent years, it's not as definitive as that. I really say to you like, Oh, the most likely breed to win best in show at Westminster is. It's actually in recent years that there's more history-making choices than anything else of breeds that have never won before. So maybe now is the golden retriever's time.

That's so funny. I mean, so that's true. Like a golden retriever doesn't win. Why would there not be points for people who have to train a harder dog? And then the other question I have is, Why are mixed dogs not allowed to be in the best in show competition?

Sure. I'll take that one first. The mixed dogs, we call them all American dogs at Westminster, and we invite them to compete in our performance events. We have all-American dogs competing in agility, obedience, dock diving, and so on. They can't compete in confirmation because the only dogs that can compete are AKC-recognized breed that have a breed standard for the judge to follow. That's That's the criteria that leaves them out of that piece. But they can compete in all of the other kinds of activities, all the other dog sports, and there's lots of them. I think that's part of Westminster's mission, too, is to celebrate all dogs and celebrate companionship of dogs. That's why we try to feature a lot of different ways in which dogs and their owners can enjoy an activity together. As far as the first question, say that one to me again.

The first question was, are there points, or is there any lenience for people who have a more difficult dog than a more affable dog?

I would say, as a judge myself, I don't think it's so much that there's lenience, but I do think that there's an awareness of certain breeds being either easier to breed, easier to get a really good one. Some breeds are very hard to breed and hard to get the essential qualities. There are some breeds that are, like we're talking about, less biddable, more difficult to get them to perform. I take that into consideration. When I'm judging, I don't know that I use the word lenient, but I think I allow for it and have different expectations given the read and how they should present themselves? Yeah. When I judge best in show at Westminster, and it's funny because it connects back to the movie, if someone had said to me, You're going to give a bloodhound best in show when you do best in show at Westminster. Judging best in show at Westminster is the pinnacle. It's that you only do it once in your life and there's nothing else like it. Obviously, as a judge, you want it to be all that you ever dreamt it would be. I probably do have some biases to some of the sporting breeds and hound breeds.

It's just what I grew up with and want to do, and I have a great appreciation for them. I also like some of the more exotic breeds, some of the more flashy dramatic breeds. But bloodhounds, although I like them, they're just not what you think of when you think of best in show at They're not glamorous, they're not flashy. It's just big ears and lots of wrinkles and loose skin, and they just as soon get their nose on the ground and go find somebody. I would never have thought that's what I'd do, but I ended up doing that because this bloodhound, trumpet, came in the ring and it was right out of the gate. He was just so athletic and amazing in motion. Then getting up close and going over, and he was just so handsome and so well-meaned. Towards the end, I I do this thing where I like to ask the dogs to come out and stand on their own, meaning I really don't want to see them aided by their handler. I want to see how they carry themselves. In the moment, I'm like, Oh, the poor bloodhound. He's going to just hang out.

He came out and his handler just guided him to where he needed to stop, and he just planted his feet and he literally, I had goosebumps thinking about it, he literally looked at me, just stared at me, and like, And? That was the moment. I'm like, It's his night. He was planting the flag. So he went around the ring one more time, and it was then that was over. I was like, There's my winner. That was it. It was in that moment. I would never have thought I'd do that. It's so funny because what was in the best in show ring and the best in show movie, the bloodhound, right? So there you go.

That's right. I love that. So how does that work? If you have your dog that you love and the other judge has... How many judges are there?

Just the one. Yeah, it's really just There's one judge at every level. Yeah. So it's a lot of responsibility in that moment, especially at these high-level events. You're standing out there in the middle and it's all up to you. Pretty exciting.

So why did you become the judge? Yes. How did you get that very covened role?

Well, I guess I've been judging a long time. I think a lot of people think I'm younger than I am. I I would like to think that I've established myself in the sport and that I'm respected by people in the sport. That's really what Westminster looks for. The judges that we select are individuals like that, that a win under that judge is really valued and appreciated because people respect their knowledge and their experience and their opinion. I'd like to think that was what they were thinking when they chose me.

That's really nice, actually. I love that. All right. Well, I think I got a good gist now. Thank you for explaining this to me. I have one other question. How does one become a handler? Is it just someone who owns a dog, basically, and just has a lot of practice and follows a certain criteria? Is that more or less what happens?

Yeah. Junior showmanship is open to any child, and then typically from ages 9 to 18, I believe, is the age range now. Their family owns a dog and that child can enter. There's lots of different classes there by age group and by experience so that it makes it accessible because you want children to go in the ring and compete with similar peers to start. There's novice level and there's age groupings and so on. We even have Peewe classes for younger than that where the children go in with an adult and they just get a feel for how it goes, much like they do at horse shows. I remember leading my niece around on a horse at the Hampton Classic, a pony, when she was just a little munchget. It's just that exposure and getting them used to it. We are actually celebrating at Western this year, it's the 90th anniversary of Junior Showmanship at Westchester this year. So thank you for asking this question. We always think that- No, you're welcome. I think children are always the future in whatever arena we're in. I think that that's really important that we be encouraging our youth.

And so, Westwindster has always been a big proponent of this competition, and we're really excited about it. We've got some really cool things planned for the kids as far as parties and celebrations and so on. And we have about 104 juniors competing from all over the country. So it's a really big deal. And they work hard all year to qualify to enter at Westwindster. They need a certain number of best junior handler wins during the year. And so they work really It's hard to get there, to just even qualify to be there. It's a huge deal and a really important part of the sport and its future.

How many spectators come and watch the Best In Show, Westminster?

Yeah, They come in the thousands. We're really excited because ticket sales have been very robust. And so thanks to the exposure we're getting and individuals like you being interested and sharing with your audience that the event is coming up next week. And we're really excited about that. It's great to be able to share it with as many people as we can. Here in New York City, there's so much buzz around it. New York City is a great dog-loving community. I live in New York City. I live in Brooklyn, and it's like, go out to walk the dogs. Nobody knows anybody without their dogs. It's all about the dogs. New York City is like that. Just everyone's got a pet. I think they're really big fans of the Westminster It's a dog show. It's a New York City institution, and we're expecting big crowds as we always have.

Wow. Where do people get tickets? How much is a ticket? Is there first-row tickets, VIP tickets? Is it just like any other sport, a spectator sport?

It's exactly that. People can go to either the Westminster website, which is westfinsterkannelclub. Org, or to Ticketmaster directly. And that's how you would purchase. The website will basically take you to a link to Ticketmaster. So either way, you get there. And there are different levels of tickets, daytime tickets, evening tickets. Daytime tickets are general admission. Everybody can go everywhere. The evening tickets are for Arthur Asch Stadium. Just like the US Open, there's Lower Bold and those upper tiers, and those tickets are all at different prices.

Oh, my God. I want to go. I'm so curious to see how this whole thing goes down. It's so interesting.

Yeah. You'll have to come sometime. Where do you live?

I'm in Los Angeles.

Oh, beautiful. Yeah, you'll have to come out. If not now, you'll share with our... When we announced, we're going to be announcing our 25 to 26 plans. We have some surprises coming up with that that we're really excited about. We're going to announce that two weeks after this show is completed. So maybe you can plan ahead for those.

I think so. I like that. Well, Dawn, this has been a real pleasure. Thank you so much with coming on and just really helping satisfy my curiosity, really, with all of this stuff. So with both of you, I'm really Best in Show and Dogs and whatever else. Are you judging this year, too, or you're not judging?

No, I'm not judging this year. I got my hands full, Jed, with just running the event. They don't need to see me in the ring again.

I didn't think so. But I appreciate you coming on, and good luck with everything, and maybe I'll see you very soon.

I would love that. Thank you. This has been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed this. Yeah. Now I'm off to the gym.

Absolutely. Yes. Oh, good. Okay, good. I love it. I love it.

Bye. Bye, Jenn.

This episode is brought to you by the Yap Media Podcast Network. I'm Holly Tahha, CEO of the award-winning Digital Media Empire, Yap Media, and host of YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young and Profiting podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the art of side hustles, how to level up your influence and persuasion and goal setting. I interview A-list guests on Young and Profiting. I've got the best guests, like the world's number one negotiation expert, Chris Voss, Shark, Damon John, serial entrepreneurs Alex and Leila Hormozy, and even movie stars like Matthew McConahe. There's absolutely no fluff on my podcast, and that's on purpose. Every episode is jam-packed with advice that's going to push your life forward. I do my research, I get straight to the point, and I take things really seriously, which is why I'm known as the Podcast Princess and how I became one of the top podcasters in the world in less than five years.

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