Welcome to the Happy Endings podcast.

It's barely a podcast for barely a show. I'm Adam Pali.

And I'm Casey Wilson, because I had.

Never pitched a tv show, much less been in, been in a television room in my entire life, and knew nothing about it.

But you're a handsome white man and.

Against all odds, a jew to come up through Hollywood.

Yeah, against all odds. Against all odds. And so the great Jamie Tarsus and everyone at ABC and anyone around the project said, you know, you need someone who knows how to run a television show. So I was supposed to meet all these people, and the first person I met with, Jonathan Groff, and I loved him, and he was the head writer of. Had been the head writer of Conan, which I obviously grew up loving. And I said, show me no more choices. This is my guy. And we immediately started working on it. I remember we started in a very weird, small, like, off Sony lot office. Remember that? Strange.

We're going to bring him out.

Yeah.

Oh, we gotta bring him out. Okay.

But I do remember that. I do remember that office. It was like part of the Sony lot. That was not really part of the Sony lot. It's like across the street. Yeah, you still had to. You still had to, like, park and go through that whole embarrassing thing with the guy. It's like you give them your id, they're like, I don't have you on here, pal. You sure?

You're.

And you're like, well, can you look again?

That was a metaphor for our whole show is, I don't have you on here, pal.

Yeah, but then they do go. They go, okay. Yeah, yeah, you do. You gotta park on the 7th floor of this parking garage, and then you come downstairs, you're gonna walk across a mile on Culver Boulevard. Across the street. It's 95 degrees across, like, elder home. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's bring out the illustrious. A man that I have said to everyone is the only normal man in Hollywood, the funniest, nicest, nicest person in the world, and just was our kind of co fearless leader, who ended up being the co showrunner and executive producer of happy endings. What was kind of an arranged marriage between you two, which we'll get to, but with a vet in the business, and David, who, you know, was much newer to the business. Please welcome Jonathan Groff.

Hey. Thank you, guys. Happy to be here.

Just so you know. Just. Just so you know, Graf, whenever we bring out a guest, we are going to play the happy endings theme song in its entirety.

Oh, my God.

You have to pause for like 30 seconds.

We also all always joked that it is a great theme song. It's completely unsingable.

It is. I can't even remember.

You cannot sing it? Can anyone sing it?

How is it.

Going there? Does it go up at the end?

I don't know, but it is much more melodic than whatever you guys are doing.

I just remember that girl's bikini. Her ass.

Guys, it was 2010. It was eleven years ago.

Well, thank you guys for having me on this. And I want to. Adam just told a story about getting on the Sony lot, and even though we were working out for the pilot, this remote office across the street from the Sony lot, he still had to go through security. That was just for you, Adam. First of all.

No, I know. They told me, they told me.

We've been warned. But I actually had my greatest. My name is Jonathan Groff. And I, of course, share a name with the handsome, vibrant, wonderfully talented, charismatic singer actor Broadway star King George in Hamilton. Jonathan.

All right.

He gave you less credits.

I know.

Jesus.

Okay, you share a name.

I know, but it's my only thing.

I have, not a legacy.

I am trying to just draft onto his fame and youth. Really. It's the youth that interests me. But one of my greatest being mistaken for the wrong Jonathan Groff experiences happened on the Sony pilot. When I showed up one time, I'd be going in for casting. Jamie Tarsus did have an office on the lot we would cast out of, but we didn't work or write or anything there. And one time I showed up at, you know, 930 in the morning or 10:00 to do some casting for the pilot, and they're like, no, you're not supposed to be here till 330, so can't let you on a lot. And it was him. And he had, he had a meeting for something much more important. Probably.

I was gonna say he wasn't reading for happy ending.

No, actually, no.

He was looking at his caricature for frozen.

Yes. Early on.

Zachary Groff. So, Groff, take us through, like, when you and David met, what did you think? What did you think of the pilot? Kind of your involvement? And then let's hear from kind of how. Well, first let's also hear what is a showrunner for people who don't know what that term is? Cause you guys were co showrunners of the show.

Yeah. A showrunner is basically the sort of CEO of a television show, meaning you have to kind of handle everything. It mostly starts with the writing. You spend most of your time in a writer's room and rewrites breaking stories. But there's also, like, under your purview, you're supposed to deal with, you know, the cast and, you know, put together the cast, work out the guest cast. You're working with the castle department, all the different department heads to make the show. Production designer. If there's sets for that week, finding the directors of the week, beginning of the season, or before the season starts, you sort of help decide on all that.

Getting actresses out of their trailers, if they don't like their belts, there's a.

Fair amount of that stuff. Yes.

That was a big job on happy endings. There was a big belt wrangler.

Yes. And cheerleader. And so you're kind of, like, just doing a little bit of everything and need to be in six places at one time all the time.

And, and Groff was your title co showrunner, right?

I was the, yeah, I was the executive producer and co showrunner with David. Yeah.

And I think it's important just like, to, yeah, like, showrunner is such a weird term. Cause, like, it isn't a credit that you see at the end of the episodes. You know, like, it never says, like, showrunner, but it is, like, the most important part of the room besides the creator.

Right.

And, like, it's a very storied job. However, there is an allegiance question a lot of time with showrunners because there's, like, this weird thing where, like, you, you're on a deal with the network, and so you're, you're, there is part of it, like, you are on the writer side, but you all, you are also theoretically on the network side, and you're there to kind of, like, oversee the creative, to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. Right. Like, isn't that, I think, I mean, that's not what you did specifically, but I think that, like, a lot of showrunners do, there is that question. Right, of, like, who, who's on whose side?

I think it's more, I think I know what you're getting at. I think it's more like showrunners. Some showrunners who are, I mean, showrunners. First of all, if David had had more experience, to be honest, if David had done, had been on staff at tv shows and had developed before, he would have run his own show from the beginning and he wouldn't have had me. Luckily for me, he was pretty new and had sold the screenplay and had this great idea for a tv show that he had sold and had written a really funny pilot. But he had never run a tv show before, so he needed somebody to help him do that. I think most showrunners of good faith and I think most people are, see themselves as kind of a partner and are going to be on the side of the writer that they come in to do that with. And it's, you know, it's always an unusual marriage when you're supervising this kind of supervisory role of somebody who's never done it before. And what I quickly realized and basically, message to David was, we're in this together. I have your back.

I'm not gonna, like, talk and go like, oh, you know, can't believe what this kid did like to the studio network. I think there are some showrunners who get assigned to be a supervisor who might be a little bit like, this kid doesn't know what he's doing. I'm gonna run this whole thing by myself, and he's gonna work for me, and he can give me ideas and write some things and be the creative voice of the show. And that just wasn't really gonna work for us, partly because David took to it so quickly, and I just don't like that kind of relationship. It's just not any fun.

It's kind of cool. It's kind of cool. Cause, like, that the way that you and David came together and had this, like, creative marriage of, like, we're on this team together was kind of breathe through the entire project, because especially when we started to get to the writers and the actors and stuff, that vibe was there throughout, I think so. So I guess it probably wouldn't have been there if you had not been so, like, chill.

I think it takes somebody in that supervisor coming in as that supervisor showrunner, you know, experienced person to be. It takes somebody who's willing to be that in that role. And so this isn't my show, but my job is to help this person get their voice up and to have them, as quickly as possible be the showrunner with me, which is the same.

Thing you actually went on to do so beautifully with black ish with Kenya.

Barrett, arguably to better success.

Arguably. I don't think there's any argument. I mean, they're going into their 7th season. They've won Peabody awards.

It's just a matter of, like, 130 extra episodes, probably blackish.

Wow.

Emmys. Don't forget about the Emmys twist, that old Emmy nominations.

It's not an, you know, wins from Golden Globe for Tracy.

Millions of dollars.

Yes. Syndication is great, you know, and you.

Have a beach house now.

There might be a beach house, that's at some point for somebody that you.

Forgot about where you bought it.

Groff, if you don't have a beach.

House, you're doing this from Bezos blue ball right now, aren't you? We're doing this podcast.

What was your guys first step? You come together and then what? Was it casting? Was it punching up the script?

Well, I will say just quickly, to Jonathan's point, and credit is like, any showrunner is a writer. So figuring out a way to write with someone but not take it over because you have your own ideas as a writer is tricky. But that never happened with us because I think we do share a very similar sensibility comedically. And I think that was a big part of it, was I loved Conan and everything he had done before then, so we just sort of fell into a great rhythm because I think we just happen to, like similar jokes and similar stories and similar characters and stuff like that. Where I think probably where some people get run into problems when they're assigned a showrunner is if that person comes in with a completely different taste, then I think you've got a power struggle and maybe the showrunner, and if the showrunner is a prick, which Jonathan's not, but I think that's where you hear the stories of, like, a showrunner came in and took over from the creator. But largely, I mean, the, you know, the network is producing the show that the creator made, so they want that voice.

So, like, for usually the goal is to, like, maintain that voice while also keeping the trains running so that everything can be handed in on time and the show can be made and all that stuff. But it takes a very specific talent, and it is no coincidence that Groff has done it back to back with happy endings and then with black ish little interesting fact I will just say is Groff, at certain points, was running blackish with a guy named Kenny Smith, who I'm now working with, which is another Hollywood showrunner with a name of another famous person, Kenny Smith.

I do think it's sensibility has to match, but it does take, and this is where I give David a shout out because the person who is being in that newer role is. Can't help but a little bit be like, I want to just do my show. I don't trust this person. Is this person going to take my show away from me or try to or power me and act like they know it all, all the time? And maybe I didn't do that, but it was also took David being able to go, like, I am willing to have somebody come in and partner with me to do this. And really, it's not completely like it's your testimony because I remember the very, this is actually funny. The very first time we really tried to do a rewrite, I think of a scene maybe was for just to write some sides for something. And you and I were trying to write together, and you were just went like, this is hard. I'm not used to doing this with somebody else right here with me. And you progressed and got so good within weeks of like, oh, I see how having some other really talented, smart people, because then we kind of, I would bring in Josh Bicel, who was part of the show from, you know, so early on, he helped out on the pilot and it was so key in seasons one, two, and three, the whole thing.

And David was really good at like, oh, I get this. Like, this can be better if I, like, let some other people. And you brought in Daniel and Matthew Libman, who had your voice for sure. And I brought in Leela and Prentice and just people who really, I think you would mesh with. And then David just took to it really nicely in terms of letting people help him make his show game.

Honestly, now I don't want to write alone and have, like, a genuine fear that, like, as I'm writing a script alone, I'm like, oh, this will never be as funny as if you have ten other hilarious writers sitting there pitching jokes. I don't know that one human being. I mean, I'm sure there's a few out there, but can write the amount of jokes required to put into, like, for instance, definitely a happy endings. Like that. No one writer is sitting down and writing an episode of happy endings with that many jokes. Like, you need 1015 people, you know.

So, so will you guys take us through? Did you hire the Russo brothers, first of Marvel fame, as the directors? What's your first move? You know, you've, you're now moving forward, getting ready to cast this show and you need six actors.

I believe we had before Jonathan came on, I believe we already had the Russo brothers on board and I believe we had maybe already cast Damon.

Yeah. When I showed up. So, you know, you guys had had the meetings and I met, first of all, it was so cool to meet Jamie. I had never met Jamie Tarzan before. It's like, oh, she's stamp of approval, stamp of quality. Hit it off with David right away. And then I came on board and you have the Russos, who I always knew from arrested development and community, which was up and running already. That was exciting. So they were there, and then I think you guys had already pretty much were ready to cast Damon as Brad.

I love that you're like, we need Damon before we can have someone run this show. And that's how much I agree with that.

Yeah, they're like, well, we know we have Damon.

Yeah.

Like, that's the temp poll, which he should be.

Damon actually also auditioned for the co showrunner role, but eventually that did go to.

But Damon and I had our test on the same day.

I think we might have had pally. I don't know. Or we might have loved bally for one of the two roles. Like, either.

I feel like I was being held.

You were being held. I think it was. You guys already had Susan Vash as the casting director. You and Jamie and Larissos had already hired Susan. You were down the road with cast, and we hadn't tested anybody yet. There's this whole process where you have to take actors and show them to the studio. It used to be live and really harrowing to the studio and network and get them approved. Really a horrible process. You guys should talk about that sometime. And that was a whole saga on the show of, like, both of you read for different roles. If I have a liberty to share that. All of them, which is crazy.

I read for almost every role at one time.

You were heavily considered for Penny.

I was. No, I mean, I was too old. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Nice.

As far as some casting happening and the directors happening before Groff even came in is so that people at home know, you know, the second they pick up these shows, it's literally like you're shooting in, like, three weeks, and everyone, they pick them, or they used to. It doesn't happen this way anymore. I can't believe I'm, like, a fucking veteran at this point. They used to cast, like, the entire town would get their shows picked up at the exact same moment. And so then everybody was in a race to get directors before they signed on to something else. And actors and casting directors.

You guys, I remember, were the last train out of the station. So you were really working with the bottom of the barrel in terms of cast. Everyone else had been cast. Cause I was told in no uncertain terms by my managers, like, everything's been cast. We'll see you next year.

I don't recall.

And then I got the call that this was casting. No, it was the last.

I think that might be a personal. I think that might also be a personal story to you. Because I was auditioned early on in the process with Damon and told, we like you. We don't know where you're gonna fit yet. Hold on. And then I went to the test and read both parts of the test. And that was my last audition. I didn't audition again after that.

Well, that sounds like a nice process for you, until.

No, then it did get. Then it did get odd. They were like, okay, Pally can be Max, but we don't know if he can act.

That's a tough question to hear, which.

I've heard a lot since. Still looking to answer it. And they said, take him to an office on the paramount lot. This is day of test. I remember this day of test. I had already gotten the offer, but they were like, we're just not quite there yet on him. Cause we don't think he can act.

It's this one little niggling. Last little.

One little wiggling problem, which is we think he's illiterate. And then we went to. Whose office was that? Was that the community office?

Your office? It was not James.

I think it was some weird office we borrowed. I remember it was on the first floor, and I remember.

And I had to improvise a dramatic monolog.

I remember that.

I forgot why we did that with me playing off camera to you. And I had never again, as my.

Dad, as my dad, or like my.

Brother, I think, as your dad coming.

Out to my dad. And I'm glad that that does not exist. That tape has been destroyed.

I had never.

Well, there is a tape that does exist. And I don't mean to jump us, but there is a tape that, more than anything, maybe for your 50th birthday in eight years, I can find David. But the search for the role of Dave, played by Zack Knighton, was so extensive that at one point, David Kasp has never acted a day in his life.

Never acted a day in my life. They asked me to come in and read for it. I was soundly rejected.

But you know what? That is the power of a handsome white man.

Exactly.

Like, a handsome white man can go and be like, guys, I've never done any of this before. And they're like, could he be the lead?

They're like, could you direct a three picture deal?

He's so unassuming. It's like, he's never done this before. So refreshing.

We already have him know. Never having run a show before. Is there a way that we could make him the lead?

Why not give him more responsibility of it?

Yeah. Can he also now never have acted before, I think so.

So what were you guys, what did you see, if you may, in Damon and Pally? Cause they were the first cast that you felt like this is gonna work with them.

I mean, again, never casted anything. Never. You know, everyone came up as part of a theater group in high school or UCB or whatever. I had never done any of that. My background, no big deal, was fine art, you know, visual art, painting and, you know, sculpture, things like that.

Very fine, very fine, very fine.

The finest of the arts, if we're being honest. I had just come from, from art school in New York and had never done any theater or anything like that, so knew nothing about casting or acting or, which is why I can't believe I improv that scene with Pali off camera that we should have gotten someone for him to act with besides me. I had never done any of it, so I knew nothing. So I have since learned that this basically is how it feels in general every time. But people would just come in and read, and I was like, oh, this script is horrible, you know, and it's no knock on the actors. It's just like, when it's not the right person for the part, like, it inevitably just, like, feels unfunny and, like, heavy handed and bad. And then someone comes in and you're like, oh, my God, that person is perfect for it, you know? And that is, I will say, exactly what happened with Damon and Adam, uh, and everyone in the cast eventually. But you're asking. What I saw initially from the two of them was a lot of like, oh, this is never going to work.

And then, oh, that's perfect. You know what I mean? Like, so it kind of is undeniable. And that's the one thing I will say about casting in general, is, I mean, obviously you get it wrong a lot of times, and sometimes you're wrong about someone and they end up surprising you. But largely, it's sort of undeniable. Usually someone just like, is awesome, and you, you don't. It doesn't really take any skill on our part or on my part. I've felt even since, to know who to cast, it just sort of happens, and you're like, that person's awesome. And since then, I've also heard the phrase casting is destiny, which I do have seen happen a lot of times as far as, like, you chase the person you want desperately for so, so long and there's no one else for it, and then they can't do it, and then it ends up at the last minute. And it happened on this show, too, being someone else. And then that person is like, holy. You're like, how could we ever have made the show without that person? Yeah, that's right.

It's definitely like a sifting for gold a little bit. Like, you're like. You're just so much stuff. Yeah. And you're right. Like, the material always seems kind of leaden, and then somebody just shows up. And it also comes down to just Adam and Damon. Everybody in the cast but Adam and Damon, especially in those early casting things were like, oh, they're funny, they're funny. Let's get funny people. Like, very first time I had a. I made a pilot, like, probably it was like 2001 or something. I had an older non writing producer, but a guy who'd been a producer on a lot of pilots, and he was just like, cast funny people.

Just cast funny people, which surprisingly, sometimes people don't do for comedies. You know, they'll get dramatic actors. And I think, and this is not to put anyone down, but I do think comedians, this is a personal view, can tend to do drama, but it's harder to go the other way.

I also think that we were still dealing in 2000, you know, when we made this show in 2010 with, like, friends had this massive chilling effect in a way, on casting, which was, we need people as beautiful as all of them and as funny as all of them.

Which you got. Which you got.

And we did. We got a very beautiful cast, but they, you know, a lot of people cast beautiful people, but that weren't funny for years, chasing that friends dream. And in the shoot, the shows that ever broke through kind of got people who you like looking at on tv because they're cute and whatever, but they're also really funny, you know, and that's how we got. That's how we got our 57 episodes.

Well, can we move on to a next important piece of casting? Because I believe I was the third person cast.

Is that true?

Yeah, because I think Alicia, I know Eliza was right after me, and then Alicia and then.

Yes, that's right.

I'll just say briefly, I had been beautifully let go from SNL, and I was in a very depressed time of life, beautifully watching the Kardashians by day, and had made, like, frantic vision boards, like, I will get a job, you fucking piece of shit. To myself. And then I was lucky nicely. Nick Kroll asked me to do a role in his short, kind of called rich dicks, which later became the Kroll show. And I was like, so happy to have been cast by a funny friend. And then that morning, I got the call, you know, can you go across town and audition for this show, happy endings? And I'm like, I can't. This is my first job post SNL. And then my manager, Brooke Popjoy, and Naomi Odenkirk, were like, no, you really do need to go. So I had wet hair. I'd never read the sides. And Nick, very generously, was like, I guess you can leave for 4 hours of a nine hour shoot. And I went and had never really. I didn't know the lines, and I didn't. I did have wet hair. And Anthony Russo, I remember, walked after me after the audition and just said, hey, did you learn the lines for the callback?

And that was hard to hear, you know?

Well, I mean, he would go on to direct the highest grossing film of all time.

So, no, it was good feedback. I took. I stood in that feedback.

That's what they expect, you know?

Yeah. I heard he gave similar feedback to Scarlett Johansson for endgame.

That's right.

Like, we really like you here. Could you learn the lines maybe, and dry.

Blow, dry your hair.

Get a blow out and blow it out.

Did she ever. Did she ever learn the lines? Do we know?

She did?

It's mostly cg.

I never did, but Scarlett did.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're in this. You're in everybody.

It's.

Look, it's a journey for everybody. There's peaks and valleys.

That's right.

You could be the next black widow. You could have an action career.

Wait, I'm gonna ask Casey a question. Which role? So, you read for Penny first, but then we threw a curve and had you. So we clearly, like, again, like, she's funny. How do we get her in the show? I think was the instinct. Is she Penny? And then did you read another part? Did you read.

You know, I never actually read for Jane, but I got a call. Cause I think you had yet to see Eliza and were kind of struggling to find that role. And I got a call while I was having margaritas with a good friend, and you guys were very generously, like, we'd love to have you as Penny or if you'd want to play Jane. And I obviously saw that Penny is me and felt I would steer more towards that role.

What happens a lot with casting, too, is. And I've, since, you know, the cast, funny people, is the. I don't know if this is an advice podcast, but that's what I would say to anyone, cast the funniest person you can get. It's a little bit like when they talk about drafting, you know, in sports, just get the best player on the board, no matter.

Don't draft for position.

Yeah, don't draft for position. So for me, it was like Casey and Adam and Damon were so funny. It was just like, okay, let's get those three. And then it.

And we'll get them to lose weight later.

Yeah, we'll talk about the way they look after.

And then some of it just became like, who do we like? Do as you love other people in other roles, then you can shift them around. And we had, yes, not seen a Dave yet that we'd liked and not seen a Jane yet that we liked. So it was sort of like, okay, well, what if we have a. If we have a second choice and Max that we like, do we move pally over to Dave or what? You know, that's whatever. But then eventually we saw Eliza for Jane and, you know, Alicia and Zack Knighton. And with all of them, they were very much, you know, similarly, like, kind of undeniable.

Exactly.

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Two quick stories on that casting quick, which is that when I was cast, I was actually, you were talking about the friends. For some reason, that year in hollywood, people were doing friends type shows. There were a lot of them. And at the time that happy endings was going on, I got cast in two other ones. I think one was called, like, traffic.

Traffic light was one that got on.

The air, and then one was called. I think it was called stupid friends. I remember Joe Russo called me, was like, what are you doing? And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, what are you doing? We offer you take the. Take, take the job. I was like, oh. I'm just like, you know, trying to decide. He goes, look, we know what we're doing. We knew what we were doing with will Arnett. We knew what we were doing. Michael cera. We know what we're doing. Just do it. Yes. And I was like. I was like, okay, I'll do it. And then I got off the phone and called. I was like, I'm gonna do happy endings.

That's so great.

And that's how I did it. And then the second story that I remember was when in the hustle to find days in the melee. In the melee. Cause it really did feel like that. Like, there was. There was one point, I remember, Casey, where you and I were like, if we don't find it, are they just gonna pull the plug on the hole?

And that's when we turned our attention to trying to also help.

Yeah, we tried to help, but they moved me over to Dave, and they brought in another Max to read, who ended up being Max Greenfield of new girl fame. And then they tried, like, each combination, it was like, I'll do Dave. He didn't matter. It was like true west with John C. Reilly and fucking Philip Seymour often for, like, two days. And we kept going in and switching parts.

Cause Max. Max read for Dave, too, right? Max read for Dave. You read for Dave. He read for Max.

He was great, by the way. Can I just say?

He was awesome.

Remember writing a passionate letter? And again, all due respect to Zack Knight, we had not seen Zack Knight yet.

Zack Knight was not available. Zack Knight was on a tv show that everybody thought was going to be a big hit, and it wasn't a.

Big hit flash forward.

It did not end up becoming a big hit, but we weren't even. He wasn't even on our radar.

But Max Greenfield was honestly just as undeniable as everyone. I loved him immediately. He was so funny.

And what was crazy about that was that me and Max, the year previous, had done a Comedy central pilot together. And it was the worst. It was the worst Comedy central pilot ever made. The only positive was that my love interest in that pilot is a one, a Meghan Markle.

Oh.

And the pilot was not gonna.

God, did she dodge a bullet with you?

Yeah, for sure. But the pilot was not gonna go at Comedy Central until happy endings was gonna go. And they found out that me and Max were gonna be on happy endings together. And then the head of Comedy Central was like, no, we're gonna pick up the show. And so David Minor had to write a note to Comedy Central. He was like, you gotta let them out. And here's what gets fuzzy. Someone somewhere was like, you can have one of the jews. Well, I. Right. They were like, you can have one. You have two jews. You want. You can have one.

I have a somewhat more. That's hilarious and possibly true, but I have a somewhat more benevolent take on that, which is that Kent Alterman, who was running Comedy central at the time, is a good dude. And he knew. He.

Great.

He knew that he wasn't. He knew that show sucked. You're a pilot. Sorry. And he was like, please take one of these or both of these guys. But he was actually very cool. He let you guys. They don't have to do that. They could have held you and kept you from being in this pilot. Cause ABC would not have cast you if there was still a chance that that Comedy Central pilot could have gone. And he was very cool.

Yes, I remember.

So I know David Minor helped, but Kent Alterman was actually kind of.

Kent was the guy who did the right thing.

You know, you mentioned casting as destiny, and Max Greenfield went on to do very well.

The more successful. The more successful happy endings.

The word you swallowed, Casey, was better. No, he went on to do better.

I wanted to say it, but I didn't.

I will say one of the only men in Hollywood in competition with Jonathan Groff as nicest man in Hollywood, Kent Alterman is right there.

Greenland, the president, Ken Altman. Shout out, friend of the pod.

So even though we haven't heard any praise about my audition from you guys and you fell silent, I think you do have to move on.

What are you talking about?

I do not remember. I also remember your audition, Casey. I don't know how I remember nothing. And I remember all these words. We got called together. Maybe this was the callback that you had to read. We got called to Jamie's office on Paramount, and it was pouring rain. Do you remember? It was pouring fucking rain. And we met each other there, and we knew each other, and it was like. And we were like, what are you going in for? And you were like, I'm going in for this. Jamie tarses shows, like a multicam or something, but she wants me to read for the one that you're doing. Cause remember there was that Jason Biggs show.

It was true love that Matt Tarsus, Jamie's brother, had created, and Jamie was producing. Jamie produced four pilots that spring.

You read for that show that day, Casey. And we met in the pouring rain at.

I just remember when I met you, Adam. Cause we had known each other a bit from UCB, but I really did feel that a. You know, because I'd always worked for June day and Rayfield as, like, comedy kind of partner. And I really remember where you were sitting when I walked up. And I really did feel like, this is my comedic soulmate.

Oh, yeah, me too. 100 from the moment it was in that rain, I remember, like, we did bits about something about, like, how it was like, what are we doing here? Like, it was, like, pouring rain. And it was the exact type of bit that we still do, which is like, we should only be so lucky that we were, like, asked to go read for Jamie Tarzas. And we were both like, I remember I was in my Volkswagen golf that had been banged up. Cause I tried to drive it through where the golf carts go in Paramount.

I was in my. The infinity I shared with June.

Yeah, you had the two tone.

It was like a hearse.

And I remember we were joking. We were like, this sucks. This sucks. Fuck this shit. And I remember thinking like, oh, wow. Like, it's the only other person that would understand that. I actually feel the opposite way.

Yeah.

I'm, like, so grateful.

Yes. And we want this so badly that we are forced to go the other way.

Yeah.

That we have to be like, fuck.

Well, I do remember that Casey's audition was terrific. I do remember you got done on the ground. You did the working out one. You did not. You were sort of part of the workout was grasping at the sides to kind of keep up with the lines that you didn't know, but it was. You really went for it and was immediately, again, immediately hilarious where we're like, oh, okay, she's in the show. We just got to figure out. And it was undeniably Penny. But then we were like, the longer we couldn't find a Jane, and there was, like, someone else that we liked. For Penny, we're like the Chibi Jane, you know, like, moving him around. But then ultimately you find the undeniable person for everyone to segue to Coop.

I knew Coop a little bit from UCB as well, because Eliza was a rocket ship.

Oh, yeah.

Like, she got to, she got to UCB. I think you had already moved. Did you move to LA?

Yes, I had. But I had heard about her because she was on flight to the concordes with June, and June was like, this girl is fucking funny as hell.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And she came out, she did a one person show at UCB that Anthony King directed that was so mind blowing where, like, you couldn't believe she played. She did, like, accents and, like, characters. Eliza Koop was doing, like, accents and characters that were unbelievable. And I feel like she, someone saw it and put her in the HBO comedy festival, and it was just like, boom, she was off.

And that person was Kirsten Ames, who ran the HBO Aspen Comedy festival. And she brought June and I's two women show out there. And then later, I think, I really believe this is the story that Kristen was just like, I'm actually going to manage Eliza.

Yeah, no, I think she. I don't know if she's.

Oh, she does.

But yeah, yeah. She was like, I literally am gonna give up this career and put my eggs in Eliza's basket, which is a smart move.

I mean, look what happened. I mean, that's. That's how you do it. You find someone that's like, you're like, I get this person's talent.

You know, like, I did it with Casey in the most personal way possible.

Yeah, very deep. A little deeper.

He put all his eggs in my basket as well.

Well, I put all her eggs in my basket. I get two.

Those were frozen at the time. They were frozen.

It was a. Oh, God. Much like. Yeah, they were out in Redondo beach chilling.

Your eggs have a nicer space than.

When.

Can we see the architectural digest of your frozen eggs, Danielle?

Danielle Schneider and I, we always like.

A dorm room mini fridge.

Danielle and I had the same fertility doctor, and we're always like, you know, it does feel nice to know that our kids are up in redondo, like, in a really nice spot together. You know, maybe they know each other.

I think they.

Of course, the other story I remember about Coop was, well, I knew to Coop also because I had worked on with Josh Pycelle, actually, on season nine of scrubs, which I always say, you may know scrubs from seasons one through eight, but there was a season nine.

That where now I know it from its podcast.

Exactly. From its. Yes, but Koopa had been on the last couple of seasons, and she was heavily featured in season nine. She was awesome. She played this character called Denise, very different from Jane. And so I had gotten to know her a little bit, and I think she was a little bit like, what's pilot season going to bring? For me, it was a weird pilot season, and I think she actually probably, because I think a lot of people are like, oh, Alix is the girl that runs away from Dave at the altar. Is she the second character, the lead character of the show? Is that the lead thing? And if I recall Coop and maybe it was Kirsten, were like, well, why shouldn't she read for Alix? And I think we were, like, probably already talking to Alicia Cuthbert at that point.

Well, and Eliza has leading lady looks, too, which is 100%, you know, at the time, that was a huge part of casting, which is, you know, 100%. I'm glad that's changing, but she's so gorgeous.

And I think she was also maybe down the road with another pilot that fell through or something. So she wasn't available right at the beginning. And then she finally came in, and I think I said, I may have reached out and said, like, this isn't exactly. Cause she's so different than what she had been playing. Cause she, on scrub, she was playing this kind of tough, not like, kind of like asexual, kind of not asexual, agendered kind of character in a way, named Denise. She was a tomboy, and Jane is not that. I mean, she has those aspects.

Seems like you really connected to that character name Denise.

Yeah, it seems to be the one thing you do remember for sure.

I do remember, but she came in and she was amazing as Jane right from. Right from the beginning.

But, you know, but Jane was no Denise.

No.

And she never will be. You know, that's a character that comes along once in a lifetime.

No, Denise is her own.

Tell us about Alicia's when that little firecracker came and that low voiced firecracker came. Exploded into our lives forever.

Were you groff. Were you at Chateau Marmont with me when we met? Okay, so, yeah, we were.

That sounds about already. That sounds about.

Well, Chateau Marmont is what Alicia lovingly refers to because she used to live right above it, quote, her living room.

Yes.

That was the best.

You get these messages that are messaged to you by the network sometimes. And, like, Steve McPherson, who was running ABC at the time, was like a guy who definitely, like, everybody cowered a little bit around him, studio and other network executives. And he was a little like, but he loved this project. He really loved David's script and he wanted to, you know, was a big champion of it, to his credit, but he was like, I like Alicia Cuthbert, you know, and if you put her in the show, that's going to up your chances of getting this show picked.

Up basically when you guys drove to chateau two minutes later.

So it's like, exactly like, okay, she's willing to meet. And then she was so lovely and Alicia and game, like I was. That's the word I always used to describe Alicia right away, like, yeah, I'll do this. You know, because she had, she'd never really done a comedy before, really, and.

But she was like the real pro amongst all of us and like hugely.

Famous the pro, I will say, like outside of Hollywood, I think there's like a stereotype that child stars like, are all reckless and have these terrible, like partying, like, whatever. But I will say the child stars that I have worked with are largely the most professional person on set by far. Largely because they sort of learned from like twelve years old. Like, you can't be late. Like, people don't quite know, but, you know, these, these shows are 14, 1516 hours, days, every single day.

We're heroes and people don't know that.

And you can't be, I like to call, you can't be four minutes late.

The front lines, sure.

You know, essentially, I think is what we were actually put in the category essential entertainment.

That's right.

But she, you know, five minutes late costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and screws everyone over. And she was, you know, Alicia knew that from an early age and just was like a total pro and set a real tone on set because everyone else, it was largely not their 1st. 1st show, but some people, their very first show, some people, their kind of second or everyone was very young. Similar position to me, which is why I think, you know, we became such great friends and Casey and I, more than friends, but, uh, you know, that we just, uh, we were all sort of young and it was our first thing. And not. No one had kids. Groff had kids, but, uh, young kids, but many of the writers didn't have kids, uh, and we were all very young, so it was just sort of.

But Alicia was like so generous. I mean, I, right off the bat, she really was like, come over to my house. Let's all get to know each other. Let's have drinks together, let's be together. She would drag me to my mark while, you know, doing a full monolog. You know, because I didn't know where to find where I was supposed to stand. And, God, she was just such a pro.

And so game, like Ross said, and hilarious.

She gave me a talking to early on that was basically like, everyone will will put up with your shit if you do the work. Like, you know, she was like, you. I guess I was like, being lazy. And she was like, you have to know your lines and get to the mark, and then you can. Everyone will put up with your shit. And I was like, oh, cool. And then I was.

Adam, I also gave you some advice after season one on an airplane home from Vegas.

Yes, you did, Casey. You told me that if I lost 40 pounds, I could be Matt Damon.

40.

That's exactly what I said. I said, 40.

Matt Damon in that army movie where he was like, wasting away or 40, is it.

40 pounds is half a person.

That's a lot.

You know, it's hard to say that to a friend. You know, that's hard for me to say. I don't want to say this, honestly.

I took it to heart. I never did. It never became Matt. Dave.

You took it to heart, but you never took it to the restaurant, apparently.

No, I took it to heart and not to the gut. And that's the problem.

Well, tell us about casting Dave, and then let's get into the making of the pilot.

Casting Dave was. I love this story about casting Dave because it was basically, we had no moves left. We auditioned David Casp to read.

We were literally like, you groff.

Even I read. Yes. No, it was really getting harrowing because it's a tricky role because he's the sort of a little bit the straight man in the pilot who the bad thing happens to. You need a really good actor. You need somebody who's great looking. You need somebody who's fun to play with and gets the little bit like that. He's the butt of the joke. I mean, he's holding hands with a chocolate bride at Candy Bride that's left over in his disastrous, devastated apartment after he's been left at the altar. And he's a mess. So you need somebody really vulnerable and funny. And I remember talking to, I think it was Kelly Lee at ABC Studios at ABC casting the network. And she's like, I have one move left for you guys. Because we were shooting, it was getting really close to having to shoot.

Do you remember after the studio table? So there's two table reads, which is a table read. As you know, you sit around the table, everyone, all the actors, like, sort of act, doubt the script from a seated position so that you can just sort of hear what works, what doesn't, that kind of thing. And there's two, there's a studio one for the studio, and then you get some notes, and then from there you go to the big network one, and then you shoot. So you're within a week of shooting when you do the studio one. And we did not have a Dave. And again, I had to read at the table read. Having never been to a table read or even knowing what a table read was, it was not great.

Um, we were into thin days, and Kelly Lee was great because she was very cool under pressure. She'd done this a bunch of times before. And she says, I have one move left for you guys, but it depends on something. It depends on what happens this week. And then I was able to actually figure it out because Zach had been on, like, the long list of, like, great names that you get, but it always been unavailable. Flash forward. And I was like, oh, flash forward airs on Tuesday night, and if it doesn't get a good rating on Tuesday night, that means it's what they call a safe second position, meaning you can cast somebody and pretty much know that the pilot or the show that they're in isn't going to come back. And you can make your pilot with the guarantee that you're not going to have to reshoot it with another actor should that other show get picked up for another season. And basically, like, whatever night it aired, I think it was a Thursday night, and they promoted it really heavily on ABC, and it didn't really get any kind of a number.

So by Friday, it was a Thursday night. I remember because Friday morning it was like, she calls Zack Knighton personally and she's like, you need to do this show. It's your part, basically. And I was away that weekend, but I think David, you, like, went, you and Jamie had, like this, you know, lunchtime meeting with, with Zach, right. To kind of say like, hey, we're cool. You gotta do this.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of where that was. I wonder if it was just like at the paramount.

Adam and I will be doing a star tours of all the places we met with each other kind of meeting spots.

It's pretty interesting. People really like that? Kind of like that. People have a map.

Yes. Anyway, so Zack Knighton, they told us on a Sunday, I believe, and we started, we had the table read for the network on Monday, and we had never, you know, we watched his reel and it was awesome. And we're like, oh, my God, if we could. I think we had wanted him early on, but he was on flash forward.

He was perfect because he had done comedy before. He'd been in multicams. He'd been in single cam comedies. He was a good dramatic actor. He's, you know, he was great. And we were so lucky to get him.

And we did the table read, and he killed in the table read, and then he killed and everything.

I remember walking with him, like, on that weird bridge on the Disney lot, you know, where we had to, because, like, first we went to your office. Grof. And then we walked over to where they, like, tested us in the thing or whatever. And I remember walking over that bridge, and he was telling me, he's like, yeah, I was shooting to, like, 2 hours ago.

Yeah.

And then they. And then they had a car pick me up from a night shoot and drive me here to audition.

That's right.

This whatever. And I was like, he's like, but.

I preferred to take my motorcycle.

Yeah. He was like, but I said, no, I was going to take a boat and go the long way around. It's like, where landlocked.

He's like, I surfed on over. Adam, do you remember the big table read, which I was so nervous about? Because this happens truly a lot, and it's happened to dear friends. It's horrible. But after table reads, like, if you don't crush it, basically there have been friends walking to their cars when they get a phone call that just says, like, you're fired. And so it is nerve wracking. And you went a different route, adam, because I remember there was all these, like, yoga mats in the lobby, I guess, for kind of, like, work life balance for, like, people that worked at it had just.

Yeah, they had just started doing that. Yeah, they had just started to, like.

Do yoga on the lawn. And you grabbed all the yoga mats and, oddly put them on the conference table before the read. To the confusion of everyone.

I did that twice, actually, in that read. I did. I was so nervous. Like, God, like, think about it now. Like, I was a mess. And the when. The way I mask that, you projected.

Sort of pure anger rather than any nerves at all.

The way I mask that is to project aggression. And I. And I remember the first bit I did at the first table ready was that I took all of the desserts. Cause they have, like, a catered tray of, like, cookies and stuff. I took all the desserts and put them in front of me at my place at the table. Almost to the detriment of the, like, you couldn't see me behind, like, croissants and shit. And I never really explained that bit. And that I think that that was one of those where after they're like, what? Why did he do that? And then I did it again with the yoga mats. And honestly, no regrets. No regrets. But thinking about it now is like, man, I was such a little scared. I was so scared. I was so scared.

And honestly, we had reason to be. Or at least I think back to it, and I'm like, God, thank God I wasn't fired. It changed my life in so many unbelievable ways. I mean, I wouldn't have my kids.

You know, it opened up my world. Like, I was. I would have gone back to being like, a bridge troll.

Like, sounds like you had a few other opportunities waiting in the way.

I mean, as long as we're saying it, like, I am 1000% believe I'm still coasting off of happy endings. There's an amount of love for the show that isn't sort of mirrored in ratings or money or anything like that. And every time we think there's this huge cult audience, we are smacked in the face to realize it's much smaller than you think. But they are rabid and they're out there, and a lot of them work out here. So I think inevitably, I do look back and I'm like, at happy endings, not gone. Got shot to pilot and then become a show that people actually like. I could see. I mean, it's hard to get a pilot made. It's hard to get a show on the air. It's hard to sell a script. I don't know. I could truly see a version of this where, like, I don't know. I am no longer a professional writer. You're back to fine art with Holly in Hollywood. Well, no, I wouldn't be in fine art. I think I was summarily sort of dismissed.

You'd be an okay artist.

I'd be a fair artist. But I think truly, I could be not a professional writer anymore. It is hard to hang on, you.

Know, transitioning a little bit. So the pilot is shot. You know, we were always kind of the underdog. It was like, you know, last to be cast. Now we're, you know, it's kind of like unsure was going to get picked up. I remember I was in North Carolina on a girls trip, and I got this weird with my girlfriends from home, and I got a phone call that was like, they want to reshoot the last scene, which you know, kind of seemed like a good signal that they were going to pick it up because why would they put money into it? And I said, oh, my gosh, I've just flown out here, you know, to be with my girlfriends. And legitimately they said, we will send a helicopter for you to take you to an airport and get you to LA and send you right back. And I thought, oh, my God. I mean, I was just so stunned by that. And to me, I started thinking, like, maybe this thing's going to get picked up. And we shot, reshot the end scene in the pilot of us, and it shot at Fred 62 and Los Feliz.

And I don't know, I felt like. I feel like this is going to work. What about you guys? Grof and Dave?

I'll jump in first. Which is, first of all, this was the hardest pilot I've ever been involved with. I've made a lot of pilots. But it was so hard because casting was harrowing. Some of that was because it always felt like David script was special. The head of the network really does like this on the page and he wants it to work, but he's a tricky guy. Right. And so the messaging that you got that they're going to make this, because we were reshooting that ending, the David and I were basically hearing like, you fucked up your ending. Your other ending wasn't very good. And it wasn't really like we hadn't focused on it enough and it was.

Too much love stand, right?

It was at the valet stand outside of the restaurant.

We shot at Sony. No, it's Sony shot at the back. Lot of Sony.

It was late at night. It was the end of the shoot.

And Casey and I ate french toast.

At norms at like four in the morning.

And we were like, God willing, we get to do this again.

Yeah, I hope we get.

And the big problem was, if I recall, was that we basically went continuous from the birthday party where everything blows up, Penny's 30th birthday party, all the cannons go off, everything that's been simmering, you know, Brad and Jane's story and the Dave and Alex and everything, it blows up at this birthday party. And then we immediately went to the. They're repairing outside at the valet stand, and that's sort of like hugging and making up. And it just didn't work. It didn't look good. It wasn't really funny. So we had this whole pall of, like, we kind of fucked up and spent a lot of their money. So, yeah, we were happy to get another shot. At it. And somebody, I don't know who, said, like, take a time. Cut. Have them gingerly meet for breakfast the next morning, which was the hugest thing. And we did a daytime scene at Fred 62 where, you know, the group kind of comes together. The four are sitting there, and then Dave and Alex enter and act like they're going to try to make a go of it as friends, to keep this friend group together. And it was such a much better ending, but we didn't know because, like.

And the other thing we're skipping over is, like, the Russos, God bless them, shot the shit out of that pilot. They left. They did like, a director's cut, which was cursory, I will say. And I think even they would admit it because they had to go do another pilot because they were so hot and they were heading toward being the biggest directors in the business. And David and I had all of this footage to sift through to build that pilot. So we were so exhausted from editing and super late nights, and we had four editors trying to help us and calling in favors. Can you just take a look at the scene and maybe make some suggestions? Beaten down when we finally shot that Fred 62 scene, but on the day, I do remember going like, oh, this is really. This is really great. And then Joe Russo had the idea to use that Kook song as the last song of the pilot. And it was so perfect and, like, hopeful and, like, uplifting. And it's like when we ended up cutting it all together and cutting that scene in with that song, it was like, oh, this is going to work.

Yeah. I still remember Groff's reaction to that. Those two, when we were building sort of the looks between Dave and Alex at the end, I remember Groff being like, I can't remember exactly what you said, but it was like. It was like, holy shit. Or, look at that. Something like that.

Look at that.

But then I remember. The reason I remember is because poetry, when we were editing the finale that what turned out to be the finale that was only supposed to be the season finale of season three, he said the same thing on that shot that pulled out as everybody was dancing. And I remember in that moment, too, kind of feeling, oh, yeah, that is really good. This feels like the end of it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

They have all dancing to. For once in my life. Yeah. Music can do so much. You're right. It was that look between David and Alex of, like, we're not okay, really, but we're going to try to make a go of it. To keep this friend group together, and they kind of look at each other like, we're gonna. This is on us a little bit, and of course, you know, they are gonna fuck it a little bit, and they're gonna fuck it up going forward, and it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be funny, and it's gonna be a mess, hopefully. But there was that hopeful. You need that moment of hope at the end of a pilot sometimes to kind of go like, I'm invested in this show, this family, this workplace, this.

Group of friends that goes on, Zach and Alicia as well, just how talented they are as actors, because that is a very challenging look. To do both of those things at the same time. To say, like, without words to say, we're going to make this work for them, for the group, is very challenging. And then give the undercurrent that maybe there is something there as well.

Right?

It's like, that's a. That's a tall order of a look. And they nail it. And they both nail it.

I agree.

I'll say something else that that is pertinent to the show and casting and everything is that I remember this whole cast funny people thing that is lived by is that as I started to learn, like, why you cast funny people is like, you guys would all add little funny bits or whatever, and then I would be like, oh, let's just put that in the show. And even in auditions, you guys would do them. Like, I remember Pally improvised something, and Casey improvised something in their auditions, and so did Damon and Eliza, that we then just, like, put in the show and put in the sides and everything. And I remember in that Pali and I had been hanging out a little bit, and he had said the joke about him be looking like Paul Rudd who let himself go, I think. Something like that.

Yeah.

And so then we put that in the script, in that scene. So that was, like, the very, sort of, one of the first times where I would just, like, essentially steal from my funny actors.

God, I should have said, adam, if you lose 40, you could have been Paul Rod.

That would have been more accurate.

You did not need to lose 40. I believe I said ten. But no, no, either way, it was hugely. It was hugely rude, and I apologize.

He's an incredibly handsome man.

I love it. But what I was gonna say to that, david, was that one of my fondest memories of the show is exactly what you just said was, like, we were, like, late twenties, mid twenties, late twenties, and I didn't have many friends in Los Angeles. I just moved there. And a lot of my friends still lived in New York. And I remember I met you on the audition, and we just started hanging out after. Cause it was like, oh, we're both from Chicago. We, like, have, like, you know, like, mutual. We know mutual things. Then you went to. You went to college at the same place Daniela went to college, and you, like, had mutual friends. Like, we clicked. And we would go to that bar inside of a diner.

Silver spoon. Yeah.

Now Connie and Ted's.

Now Connie and Ted's. But it used to be the best bar in Los Angeles. And we would go there with a. The Libons. And remember Daniel, who opens for spade? Sometimes I forget Daniel Kinno. Daniel Kino. We would go with Kino, and we became friends. And then as the show would cast, people, then Casey came in, and Casey was there every night. And then it was like. And those bits just started being put in the show. And even as the season one started to progress and we would go to watch it there with everybody, those nights would be so raucous.

And remember when we watched the pilot, I'll never forget, we all, like, maybe prematurely gathered to watch the pilot at a bar. And I remember Charlize Theron came, and I thought, I've made it. I don't know why I attributed her being there as my own personal achievement, even though I didn't know her at all.

I remember Daniella said to her, what are you doing here?

Yeah, just baldly. Why are you here?

That was premiere night. That was right on Melrose at, uh. God, what was the parlor?

Was it April 11? April 11, 2000.

You should be the new host.

Well, Groff won jeopardy. So your memory.

Groff is a jeopardy. Winner.

I think it was 1111 before 1111. It was April 11 in 2011, I think.

And.

Right, because that's when we made it. Yeah, 2011. That's when it aired. And, yeah, that was the premiere. David, you were. You. She was there because you were writing a movie for her or something.

Yes, I was writing a movie for her, and she sweetly came to check out the pilot.

But, like. But similarly, like, you introduced me to David Spade cast because you were working with him and Sandler. And I feel like that was the coolest part for me about it. Was that, like. And still is to this day, is that, like, that group is the group that I now associate with and identify with and probably is, like, living off of a little bit. Those people have all gone on to do their shows and, like, that's where I work mostly.

Yes. Especially the writers, I mean, me and the Libmans.

And our friend Jordan wrote a show called Champagne Ill that Pally was in with Sam Richardson.

Very funny. Can I just say very funny show. If you can find.

Okay, thank you.

I believe it's gonna be on Hulu. I think it's gonna be on Hulu. Adam.

It should be.

Fingers crossed.

Really good. Sam Richardson is hilarious.

If you can find the access code, a kind of a discount code that.

You can put in, you have to find YouTube. Red.

Yeah.

You know, similarly, like, marry me. Ran was on tv and ran for a year. And, like, that happens because of that diner and those people that are still, like, around. And I can't think of another experience I've had where all those people share the same sensibility and still call each other and, like, do shit. It's really odd, you know, I think it was, like, lucky that I got that because I. We're not part of the, like, other crowds of Hollywood. You know, there's, like, the Hollywood elite. The Hollywood elite. Like the Judd crowd or the. You know, you meet these people, you become friends with them, and then you become this, and you become this. And we, the six of us, we kind of happened because we met you guys, and then that became the thing. And now it's like, people go like, oh, you know, the happy endings crew. That is the coolest thing. I think I've taken from it, or one of them.

I mean, that room, you know, many of the people you're talking about, someone texted me the other day, I think Sierra, Sierra Teller Ornellis, who has a created Rutherford Falls, which just is going into its second season with ad Helms, she with Ed Helms, texted me, I think, recently to say that 20 of the 23 happy endings writers have gone on to create their own show and be the showrunner of which is pretty group of killers.

And Groff, you were probably so instrumental in hiring everyone who were your teaching.

Everyone, honestly, we were all young, and we all learned from Groff. Everything I've learned about how to run a room and about structure and writing and comedy, I truly have learned from Jonathan Groff.

That's a huge tree, man.

I try to bring that. It is awesome, and I'm super proud of it, and I'm super proud of everybody. Yeah. That's an incredible group. The people I brought in early to help. I know. Going back to sitting in that office at that weird office in Sony on some Saturdays, trying to work on the pilot, before we even table read it, were Josh Bicelle, Princess Penny, Leela Strawn, who were all key first season people.

Prentice, Penny, who's the showrunner of insecure.

Prentice, Penny Peabody, Peabody way apprentice, basically went on to do Groff what you did, but on insecure, I think, basically, right, yeah, exactly.

He partnered with Issa Rae to be her showrunner and help her, who she had never made a big series before. She'd done lots of cool web series, but, yeah.

And then has gone on to ep, Sam Jay's talk show pause, and wrote and directed his own movie, uncorked, that.

Stars Gil Ozeri, another writer from the room.

David. David. David provided the key. People I remember David bringing in to help us out where Jordan came in court Cahan came in a couple times, but Matthew and Daniel Libman, who immediately made an impact on the show.

They made an impact on all of us.

The boys, the brothers.

They were great. And then Gail Lerner was somebody I had worked with before, and she was available, and she came in and was hugely instrumental in the first two seasons of the show.

Gail was, like, a huge, you know, senior writer. She was a veteran with you, Groff, and was so cool and had such a funny sensibility.

Yeah, she was really good with me.

She was so great. And she directed an episode, her first episode of television, she directed, and she's gone on. She's directing features now. But, yeah, I think that, I think the thing I forgot, I was gonna say, see, it's happening.

No way.

Yes. I totally forgot what I was gonna say.

I don't think I've ever seen you forget something in your whole life.

Oh. And I was gonna say, I was gonna go back to our showrunner conversation about, what does a showrunner do if you're really doing the show right? You really need three or four people. And I would say that David and I were the showrunners, but Josh Bicel was one of the showrunners in season three, for sure. He actually was co showrunner, but he acted that way from the beginning. He's just such a strong personality and a strong leader. And then Gale, too, really, at the top of our, you know, at the top of the show from seasons one and two was, like, so crucial in, like, writing great scripts, like, just so funny and having great leadership skills and breaking great stories. And then we had the benefits. Sony had, like, you know, Hilary Winston in a deal, so we got to have her part time for the first couple seasons. She was the one who, oh, yeah, I went to a wedding recently as a single woman and had to sit at the Skype table.

Yeah.

And that was like, which is so before it's time. So before it's time. Way before Zoom and everything. So that's how we got, you know, Penny dancing with her Skype date on the floor, holding a laptop. You know, it was crazy, you know, so Hillary had a big impact.

Danny Chan.

Oh, Danny Chun came in season three.

I love Chun's episode.

Danny Chun's a killer. He went on to show run a bunch of stuff.

Yeah, exactly. So. And Sierra was there from the beginning, and Leela, we had David Gracio and Moses port were also folks on a deal that helped out a lot. And they were the ones who broke one of my favorite episodes of season one, which was the guy who's living upstairs from Dave and Max, and they don't know that there's a dude living in this crawl space played by Michael Moseley.

Love that. I went on to work with Barrassio again. He show ran my last show. He's the best.

And I'm sure there's.

I'm forgetting key people, but, I mean, Jackie Clark, one of the all time great people in the world, who I've gone on to just create a Keenan.

With that was a great example of. David Casp is the biggest, I will say, joke whore in the world. He loves jokes. And we. He met Gil Ozeri through Adam Pally and said, like, we're going to hire him as a writer's assistant just to have an extra funny person in the room. And he was a terrible writer's assistant. Like, he was not terrible. Worst one of all time terrible.

Actively trying. Like, his bit was to not do it.

Exactly. But he was so funny and, like, his presence, and he, you know, and.

Then he became a writer there.

Became a writer, and now he's an actor, too.

Now he has. Now he has emmys.

Does he have emmys? For what?

I think for Brooklyn I nine. But I wanted to ask a question, and now for big mouth, I believe. But I want to ask a Gil question, because Gil is to me as June is to Casey. We are comedy partners. Came through.

Jackie came through. You too, Pally, I believe.

Yes. Jackie and I were on an improv team together for decades. I want to ask about Gil's pranks. As someone who is grown up with Gil, he cannot be trusted in the slightest on anything. And I think there's one prank that I'm referring to in specific that happened in the happy ending writers room, which is the most thought out, intense follow through prank I've ever heard. Do you want to recount it and I'll help it. I don't want to screw it up.

I wasn't there for the reveal. I wasn't even there for the reveal of it.

Graf, were you there for the reveal?

I was, but I would screw it up some of the details. So if you have the anecdote better. It was.

It created a person right in my memory. The first day of season two, a delivery of lunch came for a fictitious person.

Yes, but now was that a mistake and then he built the bit out of that mistake, or was that the beginning of it?

Undetermined.

Got it.

Either way, that fictitious person went on to receive packages every day at the office for the whole season. And at the end of the season, someone opened up a broom closet.

There was a little weird closet just on.

The writers ran off. An alarm went off inside a room that no one. In the writers room, a door that no one had ever opened. It was like a storage closet.

Yeah, it was locked.

And when you. And when they opened the door, they found a doll, essentially, with a name plate on the desk of the fictitious person with all the packages from the entire season that had been sent in the office with little pictures of the doll's family around.

But a desk. He had set up a desk and he converted it into a little office. Yeah.

He was another writer on the show who had been there the whole time in this little office off of the writer's room. And he had, like, scripts. He built a writer's office.

I don't know why that. I guess the thing that makes me that laugh makes me laugh the most about it is that, like, he had to have been doing that after hours.

The time. The time.

Again, this is before any of us had children. We were young, none of us were married, none of us had kids. Like, I look at that now. I'm just like my. And I, you know, nothing more fun than being in a writer's room. But I would. I would now compared to like it, and I love it, but it's very much like a clock. You know, I dropped my kids at school. I clock in. I want to get through what we need to get through as quick as possible so that I can see my children at, you know, when. At six or whatever.

Creative spark.

No, I have the creative spark. You're just much more efficient with it.

Certainly you don't have the creative spark to do a bit after ten people. For a year.

For a year, put it this way. And I love that it's Casey criticizing because I would love to imagine this phone call of, like, Casey, hey, I'm sorry, I'm gonna be late tonight because I'm creating a fictitious writer and can redecorating a closet into. She'd be like, uh, yeah, your son got stung by a bee. And pretty sure he might be allergic.

But other quick gale a gill thing that I love. Gillesari bit was he one time worked. We were in a writer's room, and his office, I think in season two or three, I can't remember, was just off the writers room. Like, kind of. It was a big, big writer's room, windowless. And then the little cubicle offices were, like, right next to it. So his office was right next to the writer's room. He somehow got the conversation around to something where, like, I'll go look that up online. And he disappears into his office and takes a beat. And then we just hear the, like, incredibly loud, telltale AOL dial up sign.

Up.

Echoing out of his office. And it was like he had obviously set that up too. Didn't take nearly as much time as creating a fictional writer, but just hilarious.

He's a hilarious guy.

And can I just say, last one. Last gill one. Loved a bit. Loved to prank, loved a joke. He, one time after, like, a super late rewrite, we were all, me and Matthew and Daniel and maybe Jackie were walking in the parking garage. There was, like, a five level parking garage at Paramount walking to our cars. And Gil, I mean, I guess the start of the bit that's insane or not really a bit is like, he had moved from New York and, like, couldn't deal with, like, figuring out how to get a car. So he had this, like, beat down rented mustang that was, like, a rental car that you would get, like, at an airport. But he was like, it was his daily driver. It turned into his daily driver, like, completely inefficiently where, like, you're wasting all your money on renting a car with a daily price. So that thing, he might still have it. That thing comes around the corner in the parking garage, and just for the sake of doing a bit, he looks at us and, like, takes his eyes off the road just to look at us and, like, raise his hands to do some, like, weird bit.

And immediately crashed into the post.

Of.

The parking garage, which I will always remember is just such a commitment to the bit. I mean, he basically purposefully crashed his car just as a joke.

This is how you know that dude's crazy. I've seen him do that bit before. He did that bit when we were like, 22. We were coming back from a show. We both. We were in Williamsburg, and he had his mom's mercedes. And we get into the midtown tunnel, and he goes, you know, these. These things, the device are made of plastic. And I was like, gil, don't. Don't do it. They're. They're not made of plastic. They're not. He's like, I'm telling you, they're made of plastic. I'm like, please, dude, please don't do it. He keeps, like, the whole time, I could do it. I couldn't do it. I'm like, dude, please, please don't do it. And then right as we come out, suddenly fucking does it. And they are not plastic. They are metal. And it goes, like, cuts up the whole side of the car.

Oh.

I was like, why?

Why did you do that?

Whose Twitter account did Jackie take over? Lon Zimitz.

Lan Zimitz, who has gone on to create a couple shows that have gotten on the air, too. Yes.

Two of the writers we hired. In the middle of season two, we got lucky and picked up Dan Rubin and Lon Zimmett, who are writing team. And they were great. And also just. I want to name writers. Luckily, in season three, we had John Fenner and Eric Summers came on. Summers, who also have gone on. Summers, like a giant movie writer.

Summers now in charge of the MCU.

Summers wrote Spider Man. I was just sitting watch, showing my kids Spider man yesterday, and it's written by Summers and the Lego movie.

Anyway, Jackie, Lon is one of those guys that everybody loves to make fun of. He's awesome, but he's fun to make fun of. And Jackie, no one had more fun making fun of Lon than Jackie Clark.

Well, Jackie got in, hacked into his Twitter account, and tweeted as long. The most embarrassing tweets of all time, to the point where he kept trying to change his password. And Jackie tweeted as long for four, five years, not just, you know, during the happy endings time. It continued on and made him look like such a jackass. Like, truly trying to get him canceled. And he was just like, God damn it, Jackie.

Can I tell the. Tell the audience. I would say it's still going on. That bit still going. If you read deadline, yes. If you were to go to deadline and you see anybody related to happy endings in the slightest, if they get the smallest to the biggest job, there will be a comment from Lonzimit that is so offensive, so offensive about the person.

And then a comment from Jackie Clark, which I believe is, I think, Berger as Jackie. Right?

Jason Berger.

Everyone is tweeting as well. But Jackie also famously told the entire world that Lon Zimmet was the executive who canceled happy endings to the point where articles will be written in, like, real newspapers that say, like. And then this executive, Lon Zimmet, canceled the show like, it has created a life of its own. There's probably many people, at least a few, listening to this podcast, who. Who think Lon Zimmet is the exec who canceled happy endings. I will say he's not. He is a writer on the show that one of the other writers has stolen his identity and changed everything. There's also, because IMDb profile, I believe they have him listed as, like, four foot eleven. Like, they have just.

Well, Jackie. My favorite bit Jackie did, which was that the Libmans had fucked with her in some way. And we're all on set. It was a scene I was in with Jane. I feel like the wedding expo or something. And Jackie made a banner. She didn't make it. She ordered a professional, humongous banner that she put on a huge trailer. And it said to the crew, is the Libmans episode they had written. And it said, thank you to the happy endings crew. You guys have worked your asses off. Here's a little something to show my appreciation. And she had set up a folding table with, like, two apples on it.

And, like, one diet Coke.

And the crew came out and saw the sign, and we're like, psych. And it just was so sad.

It was like, fuck you guys.

In fairness, Lon is a great guy, but two things. One is he made the mistake of having his trunk club deliveries sent to the office, which is he would get clothes to, like, shipment of, like, male casual wear that would get sent to the office. And he would. Yes, it would come like, it was like close of the month club. And they would come to the office, and then he would model them like, is this cool leather shirt good for me? Or whatever? Leather shoes. I don't know. Whatever.

And then the other thing is, I mean, he's not known for his stuff.

He has, famously, the worst sense of direction ever. And he used to drive to work with his partner, Dan Rubin. And one time he went to the street over from Dan Rubin's house and was waiting for Dan. And I was irate that Dan was not there. And, like, was texting and calling Dan. And Dan was like, you're a street away from. And then you would have to tell him every day how to get to the paramount lot from West Hollywood.

What a brilliant guy. And then you've got Jason Berger. Jason Berger, who then became the writer's assistant. Right?

And he was Jonathan's assistant first, and then became the writer's assistant.

He was behind happy Rights, which is the Twitter account in which he infuriated me, but everyone else was delighted by it, where he kept putting up a clock that would tick down. And the happy innings fans were like, they're gonna make a big announcement. The show's coming back. But it would tick down to nothing. But he's also so obnoxious, but such a hilarious guy.

I don't mind it.

Halle loved it. Casey hated it.

I like it. I like it. Cause it's like people would be like, what's the clock about? And I would be like, you just gotta wait. I have no idea what that fucking clock was.

Adam Pali is, like, one of the sweetest people I know and also loves the meanest shit.

It's true.

That is true.

Well, you know what it is? I think the meanest. I think the meanest shit is the truth, probably. You know, it's like somewhere.

It is the truth, I guess, that a clock is ticking down to nothing for all of us.

What?

Thank you so much for doing that.

Thank you, guys.

Love you, guys. Thank you.

Love you all.

Thank you. Bye.