Kalila?

Yeah.

Hi, it's Jonathan.

Yeah, I called you.

So you're hosting the show? Yeah, it's a personal story.

Indeed. Yeah.

It's kind of like an oral report that you're condescending. Well, I mean, it's a report given by the mouse.

I mean, sure, by that metric, all your episodes are well, yeah. It doesn't feel so good, does it?

It doesn't. Here we go. An oral report given by Khalilahol.

All right.

Put your name at the top of the oral report.

How do you put your name at the top of an oral report?

You say it.

I'm Khalilah Holt and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode lathe. Right after the break, I'm walking to work one morning when I spot Lafe heading towards me. From the ages of twelve to 14, LAIF was my crush, the object of my junior high obsession. I still Google him occasionally, but he's completely absent from the Internet. I have no idea what became of him. It's like he just disappeared. So when I see him on the street, I feel my heart speed up. I wonder if I should say hi. I wonder if I say hi in what tone I should go. Leif. Leif. Oh, LAIF. But then, as I draw closer, I realize that the man I thought was LAIF is not LAIF at all, and in fact, is not even a man. He's a teenager. This makes sense, given that I've not seen Lafe since I was 14 years old. Still, having your heart speed up at the sight of a teenager is a sure way to feel like a creep. And just like that, to quote Carrie Bradshaw, leif is back on my mind all these years later. And I remember the exact type of pen Leif wrote with.

I remember his birthday. I remember how he kept his wallet on a long chain the first time I'd ever seen such a thing done. And wore a Quicksilver sweatshirt with holes worn through the sleeves that he'd stick his thumbs through. He was pale, with blue eyes, short and slight. I remember him being kind of like wayfish almost like kind of almost like ethereal. Crushes do not exist in a vacuum. They require gleeful. Gossip with your friends. And so I call Lucia, who's been my best friend since elementary school, to talk about her old classmate Leif. He had this light blonde hair that he dyed. Not like a long down to your hair. Long like a bob. Length, but shaggy for men. There we go. Immense bob. Once, while away on a school sponsored trip, we phoned Leif from our hotel room. Me, Lucia, and our other friend, Emily. The three of us huddled together on the scratchy Marriott Comforter, stifling our giddiness as we dialed. I don't remember if we actually talked. The thing I remember is that we called. Do we talk to his parents? We talked to his mom. Our friend Emily asked if she could speak with Leif.

It's Emily. She said, emily said, Leif's, mom, go upstairs and talk to him. Then she hung up on us. It turned out he had a sister named Emily. Lucia's stepmom was a photographer, and she once mentioned that if Leif and I ever started dating, she wanted to take our portrait. I don't think she knew I had a crush on him. Leif was just so short and I was so tall that I think she found the idea of us as a couple funny. I was already 6ft tall by the end of 8th grade. I got pressured into playing basketball, but I was so meek that I usually just stood there while some terrifying girl shoved by me with the ball. I don't like to look at pictures of myself from that time standing next to other kids my age. I look like the teacher or like someone's off putting sister home from college. None of my pants fit correctly, and my socks were always pulled up too high. I used to listen to the song Eleanor Rigby and panic in my interpretation. It was a song about how no one wanted to date poor old Eleanor Rigby, just like no one wanted to date me when I was 13.

One day I was sitting by the gym after school with my friend Desiree when she told me, I picture you getting a boyfriend in college. She laid out this whole hypothetical where me and my future boyfriend reached for the same book at the library. At the time, I was offended. College. Other girls at my school, Desiree included, already had boyfriends. The middle school version of a boyfriend, where you were afraid to touch each other and broke up after a week. But still, I had to wait till college. But as it turned out, I did not get a boyfriend before college, nor in college, nor even for several years after college. And so I concluded the problem was not my circumstances. The problem was me. I was not dateable. After meeting me for the first time, people might say, oh, she was funny, but they'd never say, Is she single? I was simply not a person that anyone could think of romantically. At college parties, boys would grab my friends and start dancing with them, and I would stay for a while, dancing alongside them, like I was part of the good time. But eventually I'd walk away.

It was weird for me to keep standing there, smiling blankly at the wall while they were making out. By now, I'm in my thirty s and I actually do have a boyfriend. Sam and I have been together for four years. We live together, we've taken trips, know each other's moms, list each other on emergency contact forms. And yet still I can't shake this feeling that I'm behind, that there's something wrong with me, that I started too late. And now I can never catch up. Sometimes Sam tells me stories about the girls he used to hook up with, or about his high school girlfriend, or the girlfriend he lived with before he lived with me. I know that he's not trying to get back together with any of these people. I know he's as invested in our relationship as I am. Still, when he tells these stories, I feel so inadequate that I want to cry. A couple times I have cried, and he has been confused, and suddenly we're in an argument because I don't know how to explain why I'm crying. I want charming stories like that, want to rhapsodize about my past of young love and mutual discovery.

Instead, my past is a wall I smiled at, and the only stories I have about people I've hooked up with are vaguely unsettling. To repeat, I liked life at a time before all that, back when it still felt like romance might happen for me, like any interaction could be the start of a love story for the ages. One time I brought whole food Sushi for lunch and felt self conscious because I'd seen The Breakfast Club in which Molly Ringwald is mocked for bringing Sushi for lunch. But Leif walked by my table and said, Is that Sushi? And I said yes. And he said, I love Sushi. And I said, Would you like a piece? And he said, really? And I said yes. And suddenly I was proud to have a lunch of whole food sushi. Leif talked constantly about a band called Billy Talent, a semi yelly alt rock group with lyrics about misery. I started listening to them because I knew Leif liked them and from there became an obsessive fan myself. Once I ran into Leif at a Billy Talent concert. I pretended not to see him because I didn't want him to think that I'd followed him there, but he came over and said hi to me.

There were little moments where it almost seemed like he could be flirting with me. We followed each other on the blogging site Zanga, and for a while there was some sort of glitch where Lafe was unable to comment on my page. When the glitch was fixed, he was so excited that he left me 100 comments in a row. Comment 42 said on the 42nd day of Christmas I gave to KLE 100 comments. Lots of typing and a pear tree. You. I still have a journal from that time. In it I'd write Lathe all these vague letters. It is humiliating to read these letters now to the point where I refuse to quote them here. Suffice it to say that I constantly referred to him as Dearest. Surrounding the letters are my thoughts about myself. Mostly how I wished I were a different person entirely, someone charismatic and sought after. Sometimes I'd have this huge swell of self hatred that I didn't know what to do with. Once I tried to cut myself, but the kitchen knife I chose was not very sharp. And so it was harder than I thought it would be. And I gave up.

When I find someone who wants to date me, I thought, this feeling will go away. I hoped that Leif might be that someone. I'd concoct long fantasies about how we'd get together, and sometimes I'd realize what a good mood I was in. And then I'd realize the good mood was because of something I'd made up, something that hadn't really happened at all. In the winter of 8th grade, I finally decided enough with the secret pining. It was time to let Leif know how I felt. And so I took action. And by took action, I mean that I delegated action to other people. There was a stairway right next to our classroom that was just a single flight, enclosed by doors on each side. It was in this room of stairs that my friends Lucia and Emily cornered LAIF and told him that I liked him while I ran home and hid. Afterwards, I asked them what he said. They told me. He said okay. That night, in a fit of panic and despair, I got online, I logged on to Zanga, and I wrote a veiled angsty post about what a huge mistake I'd made.

Leif saw the post as I knew he would, and he immed my friend Karina about it. And here is where something amazing happened. Because in this conversation with Karina, leif said he would date me. He said he thought I was cool. He was going to ask me out on Valentine's Day. Seeing couples perform how much they liked each other made me feel inferior. So I hated Valentine's Day with a showy passion. Each February 14, I'd wear all black as a sign of protest. Leif's thought was that this romantic gesture might help me to reclaim the holiday. I know all this because at the time, karina promptly copy and pasted the IMS with Lafe into an email for me. I couldn't believe what I was reading. I was so happy. Finally, I thought, finally the thing that only happens to other people, it's now happening to me. On Valentine's day, I got up and my mom drove me to school. People were giving out candy and paper hearts. I tried to look nonchalant. I went to science class. I went to lunch, to recess, to math, to basketball. And then school was over and I went home.

Leif did not say a single word to me all day. I have no idea what happened or why he changed his huh. Did you ever talk to him about it? I rehash all this on the phone with Lucia. Never. Did we speak directly about it? Like we spoke through you and Emily, through Karina on Im, and through my veiled Zanga posts. Interesting. And having been my best friend for all these years, lucia intuits what I'm building up. So you want to try to find him? Yeah, but I'm afraid I tried drafting a letter, and I was like, do I just sound insane? Anyway, so do you think this is completely insane to do? No. I mean, I'm sure you wrote you're a very good writer and a thoughtful person, so I'm sure the way you approached it was good. Since Googling life had always failed me, I turned to a public records database that I get through work. I was hoping to discover a possible mailing address for life, and I did. Looks like maybe he lives in Arizona. And I saw he had, like, from 2020, a court thing from defacing a political sign.

Well, I guess you don't know which direction that I know. It's a good direction. I want to talk to LAIF directly, the way I never did back then. I want to know what he really thought of me and why he never asked me out on Valentine's Day. All these years, I've believed this story about how people don't see me romantically. But if I can change the beginning of that story, if I can see myself differently at 13, it could reframe everything that came after I name dropped you in the letter. Name dropped? Because I'm so well known. Well, I was like, we used to live together, but now we both live with our boyfriend so that he wouldn't think I was, like, trying to date him now. Hi, LAIF. I wrote in my letter. I don't know if you remember me, but we went to Near North together. I had a huge crush on you, and I was hoping you'd be up to talk to me about what you remember from that time. I hang up the phone with Lucia, and I walk to the mailbox. I send off my letter, but then several weeks go by, and nothing.

Should Leif get the letter and decide to ignore me? Or do I just have the wrong address? Usually when reporting a story, I try calling at this point, and I did find a phone number for Leif. However, the idea of dialing it makes me want to lie down in the middle of the street and simply pass away. And so, just like I did at 13, I recruit someone else as an envoy.

And who is that someone else?

You.

Oh, yeah.

It's you.

Okay, so I'm sort of like that whole quorum of girls all in one adult.

Man this is regular host of this program, jonathan Goldstein. I want him to call Leif on my behalf to see if Leif got the letter and would be open to speaking with me.

Yeah, no, I don't think that'll be awkward at all. Let me get my pattern down here.

Hi.

There was this girl. Her name was Khalila Holtz.

You should say kaylee first. I think he would know me by Kaylee.

Hi, I'm Kaylee Holtz boss.

When you say it like that, it's really weird.

That is weird. No.

Hi.

You don't know me, but I was enlisted by an old school chum of yours.

EW. Don't say school.

An old flame. A paramour.

My confidence is decreasing with every passing second.

I won't embarrass you in front of your crush.

Are you joking? Choking on this bon bon as my boss, asphyxiates on a piece of candy. I weigh the pros and cons of just making the call myself. But in the end, I make the same choice I did back then. Better to send an incompetent in my stead while I hide at home. I obsess all day Thursday. I obsess all day Friday. Jonathan doesn't offer me a single update. I can't even tell if he's made the call yet. Then the weekend begins and I still have no idea what he's done. Okay, but whatever you did do, it worked. Because Friday night checked my email and I had an email from Leif saying that he would talk to me.

Wow. Okay, well, let me just say I am almost 100% certain that I had nothing to do with that.

Well, really? Because it happened that day.

Yeah, it is suggestive.

Jonathan tells me that he had indeed tried calling Leif's number.

Okay, here's the call. You ready?

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Hello? Is Leif there? Yes, could I speak to him?

Yes, this is her.

This is Leif?

Yes.

I just want to make sure I have the right person. What is your middle name?

Chicken Doodles.

No, that isn't the lafe that I'm looking for.

I'm on the toilet right now.

Okay, is there anybody else in the house?

In his email, Leif proposed that we talk in nine days, which is kind of a weirdly long time. I can't help but worry that he'll bail last minute. But this will be just like Valentine's Day all over again. So in the meantime, hoping she might remember some clue about what happened back then, I text my old friend Karina, the one who brokered this whole Valentine's plan with life on Im.

When you texted me that it was you, I was like, oh my like, did something happen?

Is she calling me to say that Miss Bergen died? Miss Bergen being our longtime principal, which.

She did, by the way, if you didn't know.

I did hear that.

May she rest in peace.

I'd felt deranged texting Karina that I wanted to speak with her about Leif, a random kid from her 8th grade class. But Karina responded. I legitimately thought about you and Leif last week. So just like we used to in junior high, the two of us chat on the phone about a boy, and then he Immed you. Shut up.

Did I send you the then I.

And buried in an old AOL account. I find that email from Karina with the whole conversation between her and Leif laid out.

I would absolutely love to see it.

Let me send it to you. LAIF's screen name was Chaotic Detortion, which I think is just chaotic distortion. Spelled wrong.

Okay, let me read this.

Okay.

At 10:17 p.m.. Nice.

And as Karina reads here for you, dear Listener is a dramatic recreation of that im exchange with two young actors playing the roles of Karina and LAIF. Hey, Lafe.

What's up?

Kaylee's talking about what I think she is.

Right.

Anzanga, hold on. Let me, um kaylee likes me, right?

Did Lucia and Emily tell you something?

Yeah. After school the other day?

Yeah, she does.

Well, if she comes on, will you tell her something? Yeah, if she comes on, tell her that I'll go out with her. But my health is always screwing with my life, so I'm probably not going to be able to be 100% boyfriend material.

Leif had some sort of illness the whole time I knew him, but I never knew how sick he was or what he was even sick with. He sometimes had to leave school early. He was on crutches for a while, and there were days when he just looked frail. But at 13, we didn't think to ask any questions. Back then. Karina just thought it was sweet he was considering his health in his role as my future boyfriend.

Oh. But do you like her?

This is kind of awkward. Yeah.

All these years later and that yeah. Makes my heart start pounding. I was wrong, I think. See? I was wrong. He liked me. He said he liked me, but then it goes on.

OMG.

Don't tell her. I'm not crazy about her. But, hey, if she likes me, I don't hate her or anything. And Kaylee's.

Cool.

Yeah, she is. So you want me to tell her that you'll go out with her? Why don't you just talk to her on Monday?

Do you think I should?

Yeah. Because, I mean, I don't think she would believe me, and it would be nicer if you told her. Are you getting her something on V Day?

I guess. When is Valentine's Day?

Next Tuesday. OMG, you should tell her on V Day because she hates V Day.

Whoa.

Yeah, I will. I always thought it was Leif who came up with the Valentine's Day plan, but it was actually Karina. It wasn't a romantic gesture at all. It was the gesture of a thoughtful friend.

But I don't remember anything after that. I didn't even remember that. He didn't end up saying anything? Like, he didn't end up saying anything to you at all?

No, we never talked about it.

No. Kaylee, I'm pretty sure he mentioned his health again. Maybe I followed up and he was like, honestly, my health just really isn't the best.

So did Leif not ask me out simply because he was too ill? Was his not asking actually a romantic gesture, something worthy of a Shakespearean tragedy? Or did he just not like me? I'd asked Slave to talk on Zoom and I pray I won't break out or have a bad hair day because I want to look good. The morning of, I put on an eyeshadow that someone once told me was flattering and wear a t shirt for my favorite band because I figure it's cool to like music. Then I head to the studio and test the microphone. Hello. Hello. All right, that's working. I feel ill. I feel physically ill. Oh, my God. Okay, I can do this. Here we go. On the zoom camera, you can't even see my t shirt or flattering eyeshadow. So that was a lot of wasted effort. I see that Leif is in the waiting room. I press the admit button, and he appears on screen. Hi.

Hey.

In spite of his deeper voice and tattoos, leif seems the same. Like, there's no discrepancy between the person I imagined all these years and the one I'm actually looking at. How are you?

I'm great. I'm doing great. How are you doing?

I'm doing, unfortunately. Faced with the person I imagined all these years, I suddenly can't remember how to have a conversation. It's like I've lost 20 years of social skills. What's your life?

My life? Well, yeah. I don't know. I just do life things. Eat food, go to the grocery store. I've got a dog.

Sure. What's your dog's name?

Ronan.

Good. Given that I'm incapable of asking any question more specific than what is your life? Or who is your dog? Leif takes the lead.

I've been doing, like, a lot of activisty stuff in Tucson, and that consumes more of my time than I probably should let it.

In fact, the nine day delay Leif asked for was because of his activism. A few weeks earlier, he was at a protest with the stop cop city movement when he was tased and slammed against the ground by a police officer. He's been recovering from a concussion. At this point, we're 40 minutes into the conversation, and I've somehow managed to avoid asking Leif any questions about 8th grade at all. Even though he knows we're here to talk about how much I liked him, bringing up that time still makes me nervous. What do you remember about me?

Yeah, I remember you being very tall and maybe a little awkward, but maybe that's just because of the crush or whatever. No, I was like, I know that you told me at some point that you had a crush on me. I have, like, a vague memory of, like, there was, like, that stairwell lucia telling me or something like that. In the stairwell?

Yeah. I ramble through my memories of what happened after that stairwell moment and finally up to the question that I really came here to ask. You were going to ask me out on Valentine's day, but then that never happened, and I don't know.

Oof, I'm sorry. Yeah, I don't remember, like, the zanga post sounds vaguely familiar.

Can I send you? Because I, in fact, have these IMS between you and Karina.

No way.

Can I email them to you.

Yeah. See what cringy ass things I have to say.

Leif mostly reads through the IMS in silence, but at one point he makes a face and again goes oof. When he's done, he laughs self consciously.

All right. Well, that was fun.

You have no memory of this?

I don't know. Vaguely, I guess. Obviously it happened.

I mean, yeah, it'd be weird if I typed all this up.

Yeah, it'd be pretty weird.

What part were you oofing at?

Oh, just I mean, don't tell her I'm not crazy about her, but hey, she likes me. It was just like that. Yikes. I don't really know what happened. Obviously we didn't date. I don't think.

We did not date.

Totally forgot about that.

But, I mean, that would kind of be worse if we did date, it just was gone from your memory.

Yeah, that'd be real shitty.

Yeah, I mean, seems like you did not like me.

I do remember you being very funny, but yeah, I do agree, though. I think I wasn't into you.

Into you, to use the 8th grade parlance. But then, Leifraz is a key thing. I've been wondering about the explanation that he gave to Karina at the time, his mysterious health issues.

I was, like, very, very sick. I was like, in the process, essentially, of getting diagnosed with Crohn's disease.

Crohn's is an autoimmune disease. Leif's intestine was attacking itself, making it hard for him to do basic things like walk or eat. In the years I knew him, though, Leif didn't know he had Crohn's. He didn't know what was wrong with him. He was just getting worse and worse. It took over two years of waiting rooms and misdiagnoses before he finally got to a doctor who helped him. At that point, he was so sick that the doctor pulled his mom aside to say that she thought Leif might die. They immediately admitted him to the hospital, where he stayed for three months. I'm not a monster, so of course I'd never say that I'm happy. Someone was so ill they almost died. But hearing all this, I can't help but feel kind of relieved. Because if Leif was that sick the whole time I knew him, then it wasn't about me not being good enough. There probably just wasn't any space in his brain for dating and crushes at all. So I put this to life.

I for sure had crushes.

Well, there goes that theory. Can I ask who? You had a crush?

Yeah, I know I had a crush on Sorka for a while I was.

Going to ask you that. Actually, that's what I always suspected.

You got me figured out.

Serka had shown up at her school one year from Ireland, and all the guys instantly loved her. Somehow in that one year, she dated three or four people. I, as someone who'd never dated anyone, found this profoundly unfair. Like, what about the rest of us? In my moments of insecurity. I always used to think, there's no way Leif likes me because I'm pretty sure he likes Circa. So while on the one hand, it's validating to hear that my read was right, on the other hand, it's devastating to hear that my read was right. I move on to my next theory. Do you think that any of it was height related?

I don't think so. I don't think so.

So what was my problem? I asked LAIF if I had some defect that prevented him from seeing me romantically, and although he really thinks about it, he can't come up with an answer.

I'm just trying to think if there has ever been anyone where I'm like, I'd love to date this person, but they've got this defect.

You know, who he falls forlefe says has always felt beyond words, especially in the 8th grade. Well, how do you feel about talking? Am I freaking you out?

No, not at all. It's fun to catch up and hear what you remember.

It's really nice to talk to you.

Yeah, you too, Kaylee. Talk to you soon.

All right.

Talk to you soon. I'd felt good while I was talking to Leif. He was cool and nice, as he'd always been. And yet, as soon as we hang up, I suddenly feel really sad. I sit there for a while alone in the studio, and then, as I always have in times of stress, hello, honey. I call my mom. I fill her in on the conversation and how the only logical conclusion seems to be that, yes, I was right. I am, in fact, undatable.

Who wouldn't want to date you? You're awesome.

Thanks.

And, I mean, I know I'm your mother, but that is also true.

I feel like that's true in terms of people wanting to be my friend, but I don't feel like that's true for dating.

You feel it not just from when you were younger, but you feel it even now?

Yeah.

That makes me feel kind of sad.

I'm sorry.

Don't be sorry. It makes me feel kind of sad, and it makes me feel mad at people that don't see you.

Yeah, I think I'm having a hard time characterizing it because I do feel, like, weirdly emotional. But also, he was nice and the conversation was good, so I don't want it to seem like I thought he was, like, being an asshole or anything. Like he wasn't.

I don't hear that from you at all. I don't hear anything about any judgment about him. You trying to piece it together for you?

Yeah.

Give yourself a little space.

It I give myself several weeks of space, and then as I keep trying to piece it together, I decide there's one more person I want to speak with. Very excited to talk to you. So thanks for being up to do this weird thing.

Yeah, no, it is weird, and I.

Definitely feel weird about it. This. Is Serka, the Irish girl that LAIF and the rest of the entire fucking class was into. Because in case it's not weird enough to reach out to my crush after nearly 20 years, why not also reach out to my crush's crush? I always suspected he had a crush on you. And he said yes. Did you know?

Would like he would like burn CDs for me and know, I feel like he also gave me a sticker that said george W. Bush is a punk ass problem. I had an awareness I want to.

Talk to Circa because I think of her as the anti me. Like here's how serka's Valentine's Day went in junior high. She walked up to her boyfriend at the time, holding a Hershey's Kiss, and said, do you want this or do you want a real one? I want her to tell me how she achieved such romantic success, what she had that I didn't have. I had laid all this out in my initial message to her.

So I said this to my husband and he was kind of like, well, it's obvious, isn't it? Like you were just new and different. And I think that's exactly it. You guys had all been together from the age of two, do you know? So I literally was just new and different. I honestly think it was that simple.

I think that's part of it. But I feel like there was something about your personality, too. I feel like there was some charisma or confidence or I don't know.

I think that has got to be fake. It till you make it though, doesn't it? Because looking back and looking at the challenge that was laid at my doorstep, I probably just lent into some kind of confident persona.

Circa only attended Near North for a single year, and it wasn't an easy transition because of her mom's job. She was uprooted at twelve years old and plopped down in a foreign country. Her dad, all her old friends stayed back in Ireland. She remembers the day she came to visit our school for the first time. And I remember crying and I remember.

Saying, I don't want to go there. My memory isn't of feeling invincible or anything like quite the opposite, overwhelmed and shut down.

It's that sense of panic, Sarka thinks that made her act so confident when she started school with us. It was her way of managing. Still, in the year I knew her, she often felt insecure, and dating didn't make that feeling go away, any way you cut it. Boyfriend? No boyfriend. Junior high is hard. Circa tells me she's been married for about a year and a half now. How did you guys meet? We met on Tinder. I'd asked Leif the same question about how he met his partner.

Actually through tinder. We are a Tinder success story.

I met my boyfriend through Tinder, too.

Nice.

Saraka lath me, even though I always felt like they had some power I lacked. Almost two decades later, we all ended up in the same place, living with people we met on Tinder. Back when I talked with my friend Karina, I'd asked her what her impression had been to me when we knew each other in junior high.

Oh, my gosh, Kaylee, I adored you. I remember you being very intelligent. You were very funny. I know you were. You know, at that age, I feel like you always look at everyone else and don't form your confidence or embrace every bit of yourself until later in life. And I remember being like, she has so many things going for her. I hope that she becomes more confident.

My past self was tall and awkward, and the boy I liked didn't like me. And all these years later, I'm still tall and still awkward, and I still often feel left behind by romance. But then again, the junior high me would never have had the courage to have these conversations at all. So maybe I did become more confident. And some people do want to date me. I'd want to date me. These days, I don't think too much about Valentine's Day. It turns out that I don't like being one of those performative couples any more than I liked watching those performative couples this year. On February 14, my boyfriend made dinner. I did the dishes. Happy Tuesday, he said. Happy Tuesday, I said. Then we watched TV. It was nice. Close, Sam. It now that the furniture is returning to its Goodwill home, now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage deposit, take this moment to decide if we meant it, if we tried. This episode of Heavyweight was produced by me, Khalila Holt, along with Jonathan Goldstein and Phoebe Flanagan. Our supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistants from Mohini Mcgowker. Special thanks to Max Green, Flora Lichtman and Connor Sampson.

Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. In the Im recreation, karina was played by Reagan Deere and Leif was played by John Claussen. Thanks to Greg Holt and Tony John for making that possible. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K Sampson, Blue Dot Sessions and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on our website. Gimletmedia.com slash heavyweight. Our theme song is by the weaker thans courtesy of Epitaph records. Heavyweight is a Spotify original podcast. Follow us on Twitter at heavyweight on Instagram at heavyweight podcast, or email us at heavyweight@gimletmedia.com. You can follow our show on Spotify and tap the bell to receive notifications when new episodes drop. We'll be back next week with a new episode.