The Heed the Call podcast has finally arrived.

Indeed, the time is now. Heed the Call. Dan Hansis with Mark Sesler. Our journey, a new journey. After years together doing a different thing, we're doing a new thing. And you heard it right there. Underdog, our new partner with us, is taking this show in a fresh new direction. And Mark Sesler, I mean, to be on the journey with you, my friend. I love it.

Yeah, it has been a summer to remember in various ways. And it is incredible, and we'll get into it, but the process to end up with Underdog at the end. And we both feel so good about the enthusiasm and the love that they showed us right out of the gate. And it's just like this match that we've been waiting for. Dan, it's been an unpredictable couple of months. I feel really lucky to be here with you today.

Yeah, it's been a wild summer. Tim and Katie and the whole team at Underdog have really helped us to this point and given us this platform. We can't wait to share everything with you. I think, because we're going to get to football today, we're going to hopefully answer some questions that people want to know about what Heed the Call is really all about. But I think we have to start, Mark, by just catching up. How about some thank yous? Mark and Dan's Lost Summer. What was the old John Lennon, The Lost Weekend?

Well, I mean, he got lost for an entire year in Los Angeles, and I understand that state of mind, but this is even more original than that to our own lives.

It felt like we were lost for a decade in Los Angeles, quite honestly. And now we are found, and we have to say some things and get some things out there that we've been sitting with for a while. Obviously, the way things concluded at ATN, and to get to now, it's been months. So let's say thank you. Let's give out some thank yous from us to you, starting first and foremost with the listeners, because obviously, what happened with around the NFL after 12 amazing seasons of doing that show, the way it came and went and disappeared, and It was shocking to us as it was to you. You guys deserved better, and we felt terribly. The show deserved better, quite frankly. We felt terribly that we couldn't communicate with you because it was coming from all directions to Mark and I. The fact of the matter was that was a time of uncertainty. We weren't getting a lot of answers, so obviously we couldn't give out any answers. So we want to say thank you to the listeners, both for your patience, which has been outrageous, even After we got away from those first couple of weeks when we knew we were no longer going to be with the NFL to going through the summer and the process of finding a new home and eventually taking us to Underdog, we still couldn't really say anything because there's negotiations and all sorts of things going on.

You guys stayed with us right to, Mark, when we finally got the deal done and we announced the show and the listeners, just the outpouring of support was overwhelming and really emotional for both of us. To see the show go to the top of the charts, both here in America and across the world, yeah, that was for a really difficult summer in a lot of ways, that was a payoff that made it not quite worth it. That feels strange. But it was all for a reason. It was the fans and the listeners that rode with us during this journey, and we'll never forget that.

So thank you to the fans. Yeah, I think that in the past, in years past, and especially after our friend West passed away, that you just learned over and over how special our group of listeners are. It's different than any other program out there that I experienced as a viewer or a listener or today, just in the media landscape, I can't thank enough all the people that reached out on Twitter, on Instagram, on email, in person. I met someone on the street the other day. It was just like, what's happening? What's happening with the show? And it's just incredibly gratifying. And we couldn't really respond to those people. And I think that was really tough because the last thing that we were trying to do was alienate people that already were wondering what had happened to this vehicle that they had listened to for so long. And let's be real. We spent about a thousand hours on the phone, Dan, this past two months, trying to sort out our destiny and what would happen to us. And there were a couple of moments that got a little dark where I thought, I started to fall in love as a young teen, the idea of broadcasting and talking to people about sports and sharing your own thoughts and writing and opinions.

And I never took it for granted, but it probably came close to that at times when it started to become a job. But when it's taken away from you and I'm driving around LA on the freeways in the day and in the night wondering, I don't know if I'll ever get to speak to that group of listeners ever again about sports, or if maybe your time has come and gone. And so to be back and to find out how much this show again means to these people. And I find out how much it means to me. And I feel like this is a chance to give back to the people that have given so much to us and stuck by us during the weirdest two months of our professional lives.

Absolutely. I totally agree with everything you said there, Mark. And we trust us. It did not go unnoticed. You guys got weird, too, in a wonderful, beautiful way with your different conspiracy theories and your Dark Web dealings and-All of them true by the way. All of them true, by the way. Yes, everything was true as you guys tried to sleath what was going on with the show. Sometimes you were on the right track, sometimes you were very much on the wrong track. But again, just that you cared so much, it really did help keep us afloat. When we were going through the process, knowing, I got more and more confident personally that we had you guys, and you guys had our back. If we just do our job and find the right platform, which Underdog fantasy is absolutely that, everything was going to work out. So thank you to the listeners. We also want to thank the NFL because we're here right now because of the NFL. And both Mark and I, 14 years ago, in the summer of 2010, We came from very different situations, but we both took a chance and turned our lives upside down.

The idea to work at the NFL, we both took part-time, what was it, three days a week jobs, not much to pay at all. Mark, you left a comfortable job in Los Angeles, a full-time job in Los Angeles to take a job essentially as a copy editor with no promises of anything. I was in New York living in Brooklyn with my then-girlfriend, now wife. She was paying the rent. I was going from job interview to job... I barely got a job interview. I was going to coffee shops and desperately trying to get any work as a sports writer. Just by happenstance, when I had been in Los Angeles for a trip to see friends a year earlier, I had gotten a business card of someone that worked in NFL and NFL Media here in Culver City at the time, and I tucked that business card away in my wallet. I just kept it in mind as I was back in New York, trying to find work that it's across the country. It's very complicated if I were ever to move to LA to take that NFL job with no promises. But the shield and the idea of working for the NFL.

Then when we both got there and we took that job, we took those risks to have the opportunities that the NFL provided us. I realized the dream about being a broadcaster and talking to a mic that I didn't even realize I had. Thank you to Dave Damoschek as well, who gave us our first chance to talk into a microphone. Mark, what happened then was 11 Super Bowl's, the drafts, the combinesines, the trips to London. I remember covering an Oscar's red carpet. Just unbelievable experiences that we'll never forget. And it was such an honor to do that show and make relationships that would last forever. And we mentioned Chris Westling. That's how we got to know Wes, and he became such a central part of both our careers and our lives and what we did with Greg as a group. You can't take that away. But it's also why it was so hard to swallow and to see it end so suddenly. And without any warning, we recorded our last show, left the building, and we didn't know. We thought we were just going home. We'll be back a couple of days later. And the fact of the matter is, Mark, we were done and the show was over.

But the ending doesn't mar the overall experience there, which changed our lives forever.

Yeah. We have a similar East Coast upbringing And we were obsessed listening 24 hours a day in the summers to WFAN. We have always fashioned ourselves as like an offshoot Mike and the Mad Dog. We started our podcast, thanks to Dave Damoschek, the debate club, a little 11 or 12 minute anti-vehicle that sat at the end of his show. And we texted Dave this morning. I told him, Dave, we wouldn't be doing this right now if it weren't for you. And I think of someone else, Justin Hathaway, who was our editor-in-chief back in the day when they turned nfl. Com from like an AP wire to allowing you and I to write by lines for the first time. And when I took the job at the NFL, I did leave this terrible consulting or proposal writing job in downtown LA. It's like a hollowed out death story. It wasn't like a tragedy to leave that. But pay-wise, it was a risk. And I walked into nfl. Com not having really done journalism in ages, well over a decade. And Hathaway sat there and probably realized in the first week, this person should not... He took a chance me, but it's like, this person is going to need some reps.

And I would take walks at lunch thinking, I am going to get fired here. There were a couple of dark times, and it's just like, I was like, I'm going to just work extra hours. I'm going to stay there for longer than my shift and just get better and better. It's like you and I, the one thing I noticed about you two was that we would walk around, we'd get beers and walk around parks after our shifts and just talk about what could be because it felt like the NFL at that time had so much promise for people that wanted to do more. And I'll never forget when we first started to write, and you wrote some insane article about Vince Young, and you put a typical little Dan line in there that I think I walked over to your cube across the newsman and said, something about you and your writing. I was like, I just feel like we don't know where this can go. And so we started to collab a little bit more. It turned into debate club. Greg shows up, Wes shows up, and then everything took off. And I feel nothing but incredible gratitude.

I was the nerd that walked around middle school with a Bob Costas card in my wallet. I would hook up two VCRs to make my own football tapes annoying my parents. I would put out newsletters with drawings, and it would have a subscriber rate of four people. It's like, these are the seeds that when people ask, how do you get into this? It's like, you know if you're going to get into it and you fight to do it. And I'll never forget a moment because it's hard not to have incredible memories of the four of us on these trips that you mentioned, especially Super Bowl's. And Bob Globber, who we love, a great writer, a great journalist who you look up to because he had come before us. And there was one night that the four of us and a couple of others were sitting around, and he pulled me aside and he said, What you guys have, I just want to let you know it's very, very special and don't take it for granted. And you never know when it will get taken away. And I think I spent many years with my identity tied up with the idea that I worked at the NFL, our show, and I felt fear that it could be taken away.

And I had dreams at night of working in some terrible corporate job again. It's like, that's what haunt you and keeps you going, maybe or for me. And then suddenly it is gone. It's gone in the way that we knew it. And it is a life lesson because then it's like, what do you do now? And I think the last two months, Dan showed what we are determined to do. It's like, I feel a new fire to have this job and to be able to do this because it got taken away. It got taken away. And so now we're on this new adventure, and it's like, I literally couldn't pick anyone else that I would rather do it with than you.

Well, yeah. And I I want to get to that, Mark, because it was, I feel the same as you, that I never took working at the NFL for granted and working in those buildings and having the NFL in the name of our show and all those great things. I think it's both for us to be able to share with the audience. I think just from a personal standpoint, I think it's important to share. How did this How did we get to this point? There's been a lot of speculations and assumptions about how Mark and I came to be disconnected from the show. I will say that in the past year, there were increasing difficulties and challenges and conversations with people that we work with to make around the NFL. Those conversations that at many times I was in the room leading those conversations to mix mixed results increased in frequency over the last year. Some things were changing. The company was shifting, and there were elements in terms of conversation that from my perspective, as we were entering what would have been year 13 of the show, for the show to get better and evolve, I felt like there had to be a level that we were reaching.

There were some conversations there that it wasn't always... I didn't feel like we were on the same page. Although it's a little unclear, even to this day, what decisions were made about me in particular, there was eventually a decision made on the Eve of us signing a new contract as a trio that they didn't want to have those conversations with me anymore. My contract offer was taken off the table. I was thrust into the wilderness, as it were. But I want to make something very clear to the audience that Mark still had a standing contract offer from the NFL after this went down in fairly dramatic fashion. So the next thank you is the first two were wheeze. This one's just from me to you, Mark. You know I love you and you're one of my best friends in the world, and We've been through so much together. I was thrust into that wilderness and a lot of uncertainty as we were going to now sell this show that was going to have a different name, no feed, not even the same personnel. But you chose to walk with me into that wilderness. It's something I'll never forget, and it speaks so much to your character.

It really motivated me when we were having those hundreds of hours of phone calls this summer to never, ever let up because we had to land on our feet because I knew how much you stuck your neck out to me. This show is so far pretty serious, but this was a serious summer for us, and I just want to say I love you, bud.

Well, it It's a tough decision when something safe and secure is put in front of you. But in this case, everything I've just talked about why I got into this as a person, why it drives me, why it feeds me. Our story together, it didn't take me long to know exactly what I needed to do, what I wanted to do. And I'd point to the fact that if you're going to go on these adventures, you better be sure who you're doing it with. And so in reverse, I feel the same way. And I think that your passion for this podcast from the very beginning. But I think even when times got tough, when you really were just like, you remind me of an old-time showman who's like, I'm not the show. I must do the show that I want. I must do it the way that I want. And if that creates, sometimes... We grew up listening to radio men that we love that would talk about cantankerous ups and downs and trying to get their show done. And it's like, you are very determined. You always have been. And you're the beating heart of the creativity behind so much of what happens and has happened.

And if you have loved moments, weird moments, bits, segments. Well, Dan cooked up a solid 85 % of those. And we'd fill in the spaces. But you have always been the engine behind what makes this show, what made that show different and what will make this show different, too. And so it was a pretty easy decision in terms of where I wanted to go creatively. And just also on a personal note, I've gone through a lot of stuff in the past couple of years, especially, and you were the one that would... You'd call me up one on one and say, How are you doing? Or let's talk through this. And there's times when I know I annoyed our previous cast to no end. We were real friends, and we are real friends. And so you go through real life stuff, and we've seen a lot happen. But point being, I know you've had my back from the minute we got to the NFL. And it's also just I want to have fun. This is where I want to go. And Yes, let's do it.

Yes, let's do it, Indy. I guess there's one more thank you. It is to the other person that we've done the show with from the very beginning. This show started just you and I, Mark, around the NFL, the ATL Debate Club. Then Chris Wesling was recruited by Greg Rosenthal, who joined the company a couple of years after we did. All the things that we talked about earlier about how amazing it was to work at the NFL and to achieve what we achieve there. Greg played a major role in that. I wish he was here with us right now. That was something that was always What I thought in my mind, the future of the show, was that there would be the three of us. Obviously, I expressed that to him. But at the end of the day, people make their decisions, and I respect Greg's decision. He made it with his family in mind. He made it what he wanted to do in mind. I think people should check out and enjoy and be respectful of NFL Daily and what they're doing over there, because what we're doing, it's going to take time. But there's one thing I know is that Greg is very talented, and he's a guy that works harder than anyone that I know in the business.

That's one of the reasons why I love doing the show with him so much, because he cared. Just a thank you to Greg, because it It was an amazing run with us together, the four of us. Then after we lost Wes and how crushing that was that we stayed together as three people. I know as a group. I know there are some people out there that will say, Oh, ATN was always best with the four of them, and I totally get that. There's nothing you could change about that because fate intervened. But I was damn proud of what we did, the three of us, after Wes's passing, that we were able to regroup and do a show that I think Wes would have really loved. I know all the Westlings over at the Cincinnati Zoo who were involved with the show at an ATN more than ever after Chris passed because we wanted to make sure his spirit was always involved, and LaKisha, and of course, Link. What we achieved together during that entire run was special. What the three of us did was, I thought, for me, I'm even more proud of because it would have been so easy to pack it in after we lost Chris.

I'm going to miss working with Greg because, like I said, we had a lot of great times together. I loved doing the show with him. I thought we had great chemistry together. We were a good match as a group. But we wish the best to Greg because all this is possible as well because of him, what we did together.

Yeah, Greg is another person that when he came to the NFL, he had loads of experience and he was a proven commodity. And he looked across the newsroom and it was again, I was like, I could see why he would want to replace me with someone else because I was still very new to the whole thing. And the first time we hung out was at a combine. And there's a lot of things that Greg and I have shared interest on, and I viewed him as someone that I could be friends with and work well with. And he wrote me a note saying something very similar. And there was a glimmer of hope that I'd be able to stay. And so much that has happened since was because Greg had faith in me and took a chance on me. And all of us got swept up on this incredible journey together. And we are family. We all have different dynamics interchangeably. But Greg is someone that when I think of him, I'm like, immense respect. His love for football is completely genuine. I don't think it will ever waver. He is an incredible father. He is an incredible husband.

And I really respect Greg for a lot of the ways that he does his job. And I learned from that because I'm a little more emotional. I can go hot and cold and stuff like that. But I think that made our show good because we had conflicting ideas of the world and stuff, too. And I will really miss interacting with Greg on big news items, on game reviews, just how we prepare off the field stuff. When you have a show that has a space instead of someone like Greg, there's a lot of things you think about like, wow, I wonder what Greg would say about this. So he's starting out something new. We are, too, and it's going to take some time. But just to put that to bed, we treasure the time that we had with Greg on the show. It'll never be duplicated. And when I think about the four of us with West, those were some of the most special moments on a microphone that one could ever experience. And so things change. You can't go back to what it was. This is something new, too. But I think we're committed at this point to making this feel like something that feels familiar and new all at the same time.

Our listenership is so passionate. You don't want to just play the hits. We're not going to do that, but we are going to continue to be us, and we're going to continue to do what we've been doing for a long time.

There are no reverse gears in this tank, Mark Sesler. So now here we are. Heed the call with Dan Hanses and Mark Sesler, and it's We started as a two. We started as a pair. Now we're a pair again, but it's not going to be just us. Now, we're going to turn the page. We're going to take a break right now. When we get back, we're going to start digging into football This is a football show. Now we're thinking about, Oh, he'd the call. Should we put football on the show? Should we put a big fat football right behind the lettering? Some people might say yes. Some people say no. A lot of people saying a lot of different of things, Mark. But we roll forward. If we feel good about it, we think you guys are going to get and enjoy this show. It's going to have like we said in the teaser. And shout out, by the way, to Bob Cash Show and my bud, my bosom buddy, and throwback podcast, Compadre, for directing our 60-second teaser trailer that we dropped last week. We hope that gave you a little idea that this show is going to be similar to the old one in a lot of ways, but also fresh in its own way.

So all this is coming up. Let's start. Let's do some football talk. Let's talk to some other people after this break. Let's go. Here we go. All right, we are back. All right, Mark, enough of that. Serious business. Now, although it really does feel good to get that off our chest, all this stuff that we shared. And I'm sure there's probably, if you're listening, you might have more questions. We're not going anywhere. In fact, we're going to be doing today's show. We'll be back on Wednesday, we'll be back on Thursday. You know the schedule will be very similar to what we've done in the past. But there you go, Mark. I think we took care of business in segment one today.

Yeah, I think for the result, we didn't practice that. We just did that from our hearts. But I would say also that-Unbelievable. Yeah, for the thousands of amateur Nancy Drew out there, although she was technically an amateur herself. But a lot of the mysteries are put to bed. The MK Ultra theorists can quiet down. We've tried to answer the questions the best we can, Dan.

The best we can. If anyone was worried that Nancy Drew, a novel for teen girls that came out 45 to 70 years ago, would no longer be used on this program, no, the reference remains intact. That's just an example of the connective tissue that will tie to this in death.

Not just for girls, by the way. It was in English, so anyone who read English could read it as well. An adult, a child, a male. Very good. Yeah.

So a standing reference. Let's do a little housekeeping here. New show, new social media. @heedthecallpod on Twitter, also @heedthecallpod on Instagram. A little bit of a snafu on the Instagram side, so we had to reboot the Instagram. Get your follows going over there. Let's pump that. Let's pump that stock and get both the Twitter and the Instagram feeds with really impressive follow-up accounts. So everybody's proud of us. Also, we're going to have a TikTok coming, maybe a threads. I don't know. I don't even really know what threads is. I think it's vaguely connected to Instagram. Anyway, YouTube also. The great people at Underdog fantasy, they really like video and what they're doing and what we're doing with Underdog building out so much great content. You might have heard, for instance, that Bill Belichick is a colleague of ours now. I wouldn't say it's in a contract, Mark, but people at Underdog seem to imply there's a potential of a Belichick get for Heed the Call, and that's something that I'm sure will keep you up many a night.

Well, there is connective tissue between the three of us. I was a youth that wrote him in theory, he wrote back or his secretary did. If he were to go to listen to all of the Belichick impressions that you've done masterfully over the years, he may have a variety of responses to that. So yes, a friendship is developing. But what yet? If he's 1A, then we're 1AA because I think it's like, let's get everyone here together.

We're not 1A. There's all sorts of great stuff. Underdog, and we're going to have him on the show in a few days. These, Josh Norris and Hayden Winks are the fantasy gods around these parts. But anyway, at Underdog NFL, if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to subscribe to that channel and like the video and check out all the Underdog content because it's damn good. We also have a new subreddit. As we said at the top, you guys went off this summer and really engaged on a level that was frankly unhealthy, but we love you for it as well. So heave the call on reddit. It's where you'll find that subreddit. And just leave five-star reviews wherever you listen to podcasts. Help us climb up the charts because we got that pop. And again, awesome. Like, crazy. Like, across the world. Number one, Mark. Across the world. Now, that's probably fated now. So the only way to get back up to the charts, it's like when Michael Jackson put out Thriller, and then he went completely insane. He's like, I need to be number one again. Then he put out Bad, and it was number one again.

He was number one again. But it still wasn't enough. He kept going crazy. This descent into madness, it will be about this drive for success that will ultimately tear us down from within, a la MJ. Fair or no?

Well, you know, I think it's fair. The parallel to Michael Jackson's musical career is absolutely spot on. I mean, I'd say when we're shooting up the charts before we had done an episode, that's the thing that could raise some anxiety in the person speaking right now in terms of you're the preseason number one. Like, what if your quarterback tears his ACL? Like the first quarter, the first game. So we have to go win games. We've got to produce. We've got to be what they think we're going to be. Otherwise, I'm going to take a train to nowhere.

Yeah, well, it's like that scene in Wayne's World when they team with Noah's Arcade and they rebuild the Wayne's basement set. And Garth just freaks weeks out. I'm not having a good time. That's what we're looking to avoid, but that won't happen until we put out our bad or maybe our dangerous.

And if you really- End up, Dan, one thing I will say, that came about about five years after Nancy Drew. When we're talking about our cultural references.

How about Tug Boat is going to take us out of the Michael Jackson conversation. If you really want to support this new endeavor and make our new bosses happy, our new Shadowy League figures, you can start playing on Underdog today. Download the Underdog fantasy app, sign in with the code HTC. Heed the call, you get it, nailed it, and receive up to $250 in bonus cash for our US audience only. Did I get everything there?

Yeah, I think... Hey, Justin. Hey, Dan. I think you nailed it. Good job. Oh, look at this.

Look who's back. Oh, they were sleething Justin. Oh, they were sleething on the subreddit. They were wondering, he puts in his notice over at Fox. And will he join us? But we kept it close to the vest. But look who's back with us. Justin Graver, the great producer of his time. What's up, buddy?

Hey, Dan. It's great to be back with you guys. There was so much dot connecting on Twitter, on Reddit. I put out my tweet, my Fare Fox tweet. The timing was just lining up a little too perfectly to be a coincidence. I think the people figured it out. But you guys talked how hard it was to not say anything all summer. I've only been trying to keep this down for a week or so, and it's been really hard. I have my other Titans podcast, and we have some dedicated former ATN fans who just followed me over there. I really appreciate this crazy fan base. And they've been commenting on my videos like, Are you joining Heed the Call? Are you joining Heed the Call? I've been getting nonstop tweets about it, subreddit questions, and it's like, I don't know. Maybe. Wait and see.

Oh, you are indeed a part of the Heed the Call team, and Honestly, when I talk about, Mark, when we talk about after we lost Chris and finding our footing again, when Justin joined the team and Erica, all our producers, for the most part, did tremendous work. Erica has such a key part of the show's history. It was under Erica that Justin learned the craft. When Erica moved on, it was Justin who took over. The show was in such a great place when Justin was leading the charge from behind the scenes. What I alluded to early in the show about some of the circumstances that led to my own exit from the company and some of the conversations at times passionate conversations behind the scenes about what the show needs to be able to grow and evolve. If you want to look at ground zero of when things started to go sideways, it was Justin's departure from the company, which not only was extremely sudden, like our departure, but also completely unwarranted because he was doing such a great work. Also, Justin, knowing the way things work, we couldn't really share at that time how much you truly meant to our show and how much we loved working with you and getting to know your pre-engagement partner, Jessica, and her role with our show.

I have you back with us, buddy. When Mark joined me in the wilderness, I thought myself, I think we're going to be okay here. When we got Gravedigger back in the fray just a few weeks ago, that's when we hit warp speed in terms of our enthusiasm and anticipation and an excitement about what we had next. So welcome back, buddy.

Thank you. It's so good to be back, too. I mean, you said it there, but the year or so, year plus or so that I was producing ATN was the best stop I've had in my professional career by far. And I enjoyed a very fun year at Fox after I was unceremoniously laid off suddenly, like you said, at part of the NFL budget cuts that year, right after the draft, right after we produced a two million view YouTube livestream show, which was the best thing ever. We're moving forward, Justin. We're moving forward. Had a great time at Fox. But when I saw that ATN was done and you hit me up, Dan, I just knew if there's a chance to follow these guys, I will follow you anywhere. So I'm so glad to be here.

And I'd say also, one thing that we knew why Underdog was so perfect for us, because when we were in talks about what would make the show work, because I think if you wanted to really understand why someone like Justin is so important, it's the relationship between you and Dan to build a show, but also my little issues. And you're just an absolute pro. And Tim Livingston and Underdog said, Oh, you want this guy Justin? Cool. We'll go get him right away. And it's like, they just understood that relationship. And Justin, you came back, you were gone for a year, but you came back with skills you didn't have before. And I think that in the last three or four weeks when Dan and I have been juggling so much white noise and so much chaos. We've said it like 12 times, but if there were no Justin, we probably would have just passed off the Earth at this point. You have been invaluable. And also, I think as we dig into football, which will happen at some point on this Oscar length introduction to the show. We promise you. Yeah. You're a huge part of that, too.

And so your role is going to be expanded, and it just has felt like kismet. We had dinner the other night, and it's just like, this is just another sign that we've made the choice that we needed to make.

We had, by the way, just for other updates, Boneless Chicken Wings as a group. Yeah. Brews, some Tito, some Boneless Chicken Wings. Sesler just hammering them down.I.

Mean, I think I ate-He's just a carnivore, baby. No, there's a certain amount. So you're trying to make sure that you have a third when there's three people, only a third of it. And I'm not even sure I got to that, but I did have those. Yes.

We had another gathering about a week or so earlier. He's hammering a cheeseburger, baby. He's back. We got him back, folks.

Well, I think I've learned in the last couple of years, you got to embrace changes in life in many ways.

I love it. Justin, awesome that you're here.

We love it. I agree. I couldn't be more excited.

I love it. That's such a great Jan.

Jan.

Who is that? Who is that?

Dan, it's me.

It's God. God. I've been talking to you a lot this summer and didn't get a lot of responses. Where you been, bud?

Just chilling, maxing and relaxing, as they say. What about you guys? Anything interesting happened to you this summer?

I would assume you would know omnipotent and all. But yeah, like I said, where were you, bud? I went through a lot, personally. We went through a lot as a group, and I felt like you were nowhere to be found. I'm just being real with you, God.

My son, in your times of turmoil, as you walked upon the sands of life and felt I had deserted you, for there were only one set of footprints. It was I who was carrying you. Bam, nailed it.

Wait, God. Isn't that Jesus' bit? Now, come on.

Me, damn it.

We're the same. You know what?

Forget it. Hey, here's something I've been working on this summer. Impressions. Want to hear one?

Sure. Go ahead, God. Let's hear some impressions from God.

See if you can tell who this is. A lot of people are talking. Lots of people, frankly. A bigger amount of people, believe me. And they're all saying the same thing. You're fired.

All right, that sounds a lot like former President Donald Trump.

Nope, it's the NFL. Hey-o.

Wait, was that a laugh track? Anyway. All right. Very funny. But you know, I got to say, I did have a question for you, God. The question is why. Why did we go through everything that we went through this summer? Obviously, it was a big shock to us.

There are many mysteries in the world, and I cannot share them all with my wonderful creatures. I'll give you a hint, though. Mr. Freaker leak himself, Mark Sesler.Mark.Hi.

God.what's.

That about?

I don't know. Hello to God. I have never heard his voice this way before.

That's right. My man's antics have been so nasty lately, so gnarly, so downright naughty, that the universe needed to course correct with a little karma, baby.

Karma? Mark, I'm sorry. God has a habit, it seems, of just doing this at this point. I don't know.

No.

Have you noticed that?

I have noticed that, and I would write a sharply worded letter about it, except I don't feel I have the power in this situation.

My man put the damn in Sodam and Gamora.

That's enough, God. No, I didn't. That's enough.

Oh, okay. See you, Dan.

And remember, if I had goodbye. Wow. Always stunning when God drops in. I don't know. Sometimes it feels like he's just have them having some fun with us. But what are we going to do about it, like you're saying?

I don't know. It seems to have taken the foot off the pedal a little bit on some fronts. More to learn there. More to learn.

All right. I think at some point we should talk football. And apologies to people that thought, Oh, this is a football podcast. We had a lot of housekeeping to do. Okay? And then literally God buss into the conversation, which I don't even know how that really happened, but it did. But now we're going to change focus. We're going to shift up. We're going to talk some ball, and we're going to do it with someone who's going to be more than a special guest. He's going to be a part of this program multiple times a week. So I think that should tell you what we think of him. Joining us now, he still got that day gig with Sports Illustrated, but now he is part of the Heed the Call team. It's none other than the legendary, Connor Orr. Let's go, baby.

What's up, guys? Yeah.

Look at this. Look at this roster. Look at this dream team coming together in real-time, baby.

Golly, it's good to see you guys.

In typical Orr fashion. You've got a mishmash of incredible emblems and symbols. You've got an Orioles hat on, which features Halloween-ish colors, above a sweatshirt with the Grateful Dead logo, red, white, and blue. So I love this version of Connor.

It doesn't escape me that God was just in the studio and there's a crucifix behind Connor. We got all sorts of things going on. Connor, like I said, when we were... Here's the negative about getting fired. Your whole life gets turned upside down. Here's the positive. If you have a dream and you have a vision and you have supporters that are willing to go on the ride with you, and you have a great friend and colleague like Mark Sesler, we We can then put our heads together and say, If we are starting this thing over, who do we want to work with? I don't know. Maybe the first name was Connor Orr. Connor, we reached out to you. That first phone call, you were hoping it was going to be the conversation that it was, and we got it all figured out, and you're along with us multiple times a week, including our Sunday flagship show, and we could not be more excited.

Yeah, I was sitting on the beach when you called, and I turned to my wife, and it was like, It was randomly projected well into the future. Your name was just coming up, and I was like, Man, I hope this is Dan saying that he's starting a new podcast and wants me to come on multiple times a week. I'm not even joking. That's exactly what I said. My wife was like, Well, maybe that's an oddly specific thing. And lo and behold, here we are.

How about that? That's a true story, Mark. We got Connor in the bucket.

It is so true that when we were beginning our earliest conversations about what could be to your point, we want to do it together, but who else? And Connor is someone that we both... Some of my wildest experiences at the NFL was living inside a chat room with Connor over the course of a news shift. I mean, wild things would occur. From multiple angles. And he is one of the... Conor, I think you've just grown as a writer. We've talked books forever. We've gone to bars and talked books, cinema. And it's just like, I just think we're picking people to be part of the show that match because we want to work with them. We love them. Conor thinks about football differently. And so, yes, this is a joy.

I will never forget that, Mark, you hid with me when we worked at the NFL together. I didn't want anyone to call me until I had to go to NFL Honors. So we hid in this random bar in San Francisco for four and a half hours with my phone off just until NFL Honors would end, so I didn't have to go.

Part of that was not a hard shore.

I was like, That's best friends for life, man. That was a journey.

The last time that Mark and I covered NFL Honors on the red carpet, he stepped on Ryan Tana Hill's wife's purse and broke something in it. I'm surprised they would want to have you back, Mark. But even if they did want to have you back, they weren't going to find you in that darkened tavern.

No, that was a low point. In NFL honors, a lot of standing around. It was Lauren Tana Hill, a lovely individual by all accounts, and had a a very expensive white purse that she had put on the ground. I got moved over by someone or other. I just heard my foot stepped on it, a loud cracking sound. She heard it, too, and we looked at each other, and I don't really recall what happened after that. Ryan was not there, thankfully. That could have been an ugly part of it.

Here we are. We've been talking to Connor for four or five minutes, and still are not talking about football. Welcome to Heath to call Dan Hansen and Mark Sesler, a football show. Here's the thing. Like I said, Connor, regular part of the program, and we want to get into the football conversation on our first episode. We wanted Connor to do it. We were thinking, what is the first segment that we do? The first football segment. You know what it is? And by the way, we could say this now. This is the shit we need to talk about. We got to talk about this stuff because it's been since the end of May, since we last talked to Mike about football. So what is the stuff based on The first week of the preseason just went down. We had a summer full of story lines. What must we absolutely bloviate upon before just our brains explode from pent up take suppression? We're going to go around the horn twice. And, Connor, I was going to say you're the guest, but you're not really a guest. You're part of the show. But even though you're not just a guest, you're a part of the show, I still want you to go first.

So get us going, baby.

I want to talk a little bit about how football is back, toughness is back, baby. There's a lot of fighting and training camp this year, but there is a reason behind it. I really dig this. I've gotten on to this early on. I was at Giants camp, and I was talking to Brian Dable on the field before practice, and he said, Watch what happens during practice today. Daniel Jones will not throw a single pass in seven-on-7. For the uninitiated seven-on-7 is when it's just quarterbacks and skill position players on offense, no offensive lineman, no rush on the other side, and linebackers, cornerbacks, et cetera. He said, I want him to feel that pressure on every single snap. I want Dexter Lawrence to be in his lap on every single snap. I went to a handful of Giants training camp practices, and I've yet to see him throw a seven-on-7 pass. Now, a couple of days later, they bring in the lions, extra salty, fighting every... I wrote down in my notebook the fight times, and it was a fight at 11:22, 11:24, 11:28, 11:35, and then 11:47. And that was the one that they were just like, All right, we have to cancel practice now.

It's over. But I think people are liking this. There's this idea that you can callous yourself to the regular season. Aaron Rodgers talked a little bit about it. There used to be a ramp-up period. Some coaches think it's useless and don't play anybody. But then you're exposed to real football during the regular season. For the first time, it's a little bit of a jolt to the system.

You know what's interesting is-And you're saying-Go ahead, Tim.

Yeah, go ahead, Mark. No, I was going to say, because you've been covering teams. You were the Jets Beat writer over a decade ago. So you've been around training camps and covering teams closely for a long time. You actually see a difference in how teams are approaching certain elements of training camp based on how the league has changed the format of this time of year.

So you look at it like a little bit of a pendulum. Like, Rex Ryan, my first year covering the league, Oklahoma drill. You just had There's absolutely no concern for human regard whatsoever. That's the one end of the pendulum. Then Chip Kelly comes around and slowly but surely, it works all the way to the other side where fast practices. We want to maximize our time, we want to have as many drills going on at once. Now what I'm seeing is, I think thanks to Dan Campbell, really, the pendulum is starting to swing back. Now it's in the middle, right? But where we're going is certainly closer to what I've seen in 2010 than what I might have seen in maybe 2022, 2023.

It's like Dable, and maybe he was literally talking to you. I read some quotes. He talked about that the rookie class that they brought in are a particularly nasty gang of players that are very physical. And I I track that Lion's Giants practice. I mean, you go back to the '80s, they would hit in every practice all season long. And that's just how you do it. And there's so many rules around it. You almost have to start fights in a way to get that physical exertion out. But I mean, of the two teams, who was starting? Who was more of the aggressor, the lions or the giants?

The neighbors starting a massive brawl was probably one of my favorite moments of the preseason because you have this guy who's a week into the league, and then He's just like a pass was broken up into the end zone, and he walks over to a three-year veteran, and for no reason, he's past him. Then he takes one step backwards and just slaps his hand right in his face. There was no reason to do it. It wasn't a joke. They weren't talking. Then all of a sudden, this massive brawl starts. Nabors gets pushed out of the brawl. It comes back to him, and then he lowers his body and dives in like it's a rugby Scrum. I was like, yes. It's amazing. Everyone's hot. It's like 92 degrees. I'm dangerously sunburned, and I'm just living my best life in this moment.

I feel like there's a bunch of super cranky uncles that are super They're fired up about this. Oh, they're being men again. It's like, Yeah, Uncle Ken. Put them in dresses. No, no. It's all right. That's the way it is. Let me do one. Shout out to Uncle Ken. I don't have an uncle Ken. If you're familiar with this time of year and the previous program we did, I loathe people making too much of the preseason. I understand the preseason has value, especially internally for teams, but it's the big leaps in logic based on what you see in these games that gets on my radar. For instance, I saw a headline yesterday out of Bronco's land It was something along the lines of, Bo Nicks shows he's ready for the big stage in debut. It's like, guy, it's an exhibition game. There's no real scheme. It's against backups. It's in a quarter-full stadium. The local weatherman is doing the color for this non-national telecast. The stage ain't coming for another month, so be careful about taking too much out of the games from that perspective. That said, or should I say, however, I'm watching Caleb Williams against the Bills, and it's third and twelve in the first drive of that game, and he gets flushed out of the pocket, and he just rips one to DJ more for a first down.

It reminded me of a Mahomes type play. Is he going to be Mahomes? I don't know. Probably not. But you also get the feeling, or at least I get the feeling, and I know I'm not going out on a limb here because he's a number one overall pick, that this dude's going to be a dude, that he looks the part, he talks the part. When he makes throws like that, he led them on two drives, they had two field goal drives, so it wasn't overwhelming. But again, it's just one of those things where you could see it. Last year, the guy that I got excited about, the rookie, was Anthony Richardson. I'm still excited about Anthony Richardson and what can happen in Indianapolis if he finds a way to protect himself and get some better injury luck. But this Caleb Williams, man, let's listen to Caleb talking after that preseason debut. Yeah, there is an understanding that it is preseason, that everybody's not going to show their looks and what they would do versus and vice versa. But it definitely feels good to get out there. The last time I was out there on the field, other than practice, was November 18th.

You go that long without something.

It's tough. But it's been great.

The guys have made it fun. They made it easy on me. That dude doesn't seem like a rookie to me. I'm also watching the game, and it's reminding me that K. Williams isn't going to get the Carolina screwjob delivered to last year's first overall pick Mike, Bryce Young. More as a top 10 type wide out. To me, Keenan Allen is maybe the best possession receiver of his generation. Deandre Swift had a 42-yard catch and run in that game. It just reminds you how explosive he can be as just a natural play maker. You got Roma Dunes, obviously, as a rookie, but with some superstar potential. Cole Komet, that guy is a very underrated player, tight-end, who's been productive his entire career and plays all the time. If Williams gets protected, and that's something in fairness has not been always the case that you're hearing at a camp, that they have some work to do on that front, according to training camp reports. But this kid's going to cook. And if this kid cooks, the city of Chicago, who deserve a true franchise quarterback as much as just about any fan base out there, they're going to go absolutely mad.

Yeah, we're far away from the days of Mitch Trubisky being touted as this this guy that's going to come in and be productive. I think what matters with these quarterbacks that come out in the first round is, do you see the traits that they showed and thrived at at the previous level in college? It's a small sample size, and it's one game, but I was watching him and like, this guy can throw on the move as well as anyone around. I mean, and with accuracy and with force. I look at that 26-yard pass that he threw to Cole Kameh. It's just like, he looked comfortable out there. And like, Connor, I don't know, but you feel like from these last couple of quarterback classes, for the ones that get it, if it's a CJ Stroud, it's like, they come in more prepared. They're calm. They don't seem flustered. And the traits are carrying over for the ones that are good. And I mean, for a Bear's fans who have been in a dark wilderness for so long, I don't care if it's one preseason game. Like, a fans are going to be fans. You've got to be watching that and be thinking, When is the last time the Chicago Bear's had a quarterback that looked like he could be a true difference maker.

They played around quarterback for ages, for eons, and this just feels different, and it's a good time to come into there as a rookie quarterback.

Yeah, what was really cool about the play to DJ more that Dan mentioned, too, is they started out in a super vanilla, cover two look with two high safeties, but they actually did rotate their safeties on that play to try to mess with him a little bit. And so that was not your standard vanilla preseason completion. That was, We're going to make you think this is a standard preseason vanilla defense, and all of a sudden, we're just going to toy with you just a little bit. You can see what Caleb Williams does. He has that first read, and he looks that safety over, and it creates just that little fraction of an inch where he can make that completion. You add that into his first snap. When the pocket got muddy, he gets out and he gets free. I think it was an incomplete pass that he threw, but he's extending the ball out to keep it out of harm's way. You contrast that with someone like Bo Nix, who is Running for a first down and had the ball out of his hands facing like a defensive player who could have swatted it away.

You know what I mean? It's just these little tiny things that if you add them up during a preseason debut, you're like, All right, this guy looks very seriously good. No offense to Bo Nicks. He had one of the coolest completions that I've ever seen in a preseason on a broken screen pass. How many times do you see a screen pass broken and then a guy keep the play alive and actually complete it to another wide receiver that's not really in your route concept? So he did that A lot of things to like, I think.

Hey, listen, you heard the headline. He's ready. He passed it on the big stage. Case closed. Maybe Justin Fields, there was a lot of excitement around Fields in Chicago, and that didn't quite work out. I remember being in Chicago back in September of 2009 when Jay Cutler got to town and people were on fire about Cutler's potential coming over from Denver in that big trade. That didn't quite work out. Obviously, Trubisky did not work out, but maybe they finally hit on something. Mark, what do you got?

Well, I mean, this to me was one of the more intriguing opening weeks of the preseason, which often can be a dud, especially when a team is not even playing starters. It teams like the Rams at all. But I mean, along with the quarterbacks, we get our first look at the new kickoff situation. And I get it. Teams are masking and hiding behind walls what they're probably going to do in the regular season. But you still get some numbers that tell you how different this is going to be because there were 120 87 kickoffs. 82 % of them were returned. Last year, during the entire 2023 season, only 22 % of kickoffs were returned. So we're looking at almost a 400 % jump there. And in this weekend alone, there were four kickoffs that were returned at least 45 yards. The huge one from Parker Washington of the Jaguars for 73 yards against the Chiefs. Jacksonville's tank, Bigsby, also had a 45 yarder. Maybe they were showing us a a little bit more. I don't know. Karras Jackson, a 63 yarder for Gravedigger's Titans, and Anthony Gould, 49 yards. All AFC South players, so that's interesting.

But I just do wonder how much of a chaotic difference this is going to make. It's certainly been advertised and talked about a bunch, but I thought we could get ahead of it if we wanted to play a little game and go a little higher, lower on where we'll be at the end of the season. I'm going throw out a higher, lower number, and you tell me if I'm way out of bounds here or what. But there were only four kick return, touch downs all of last season, and that's the fewest in 30 years. Wild. I mean, that play went away. And being at the Super Bowl when we watched that opening kickoff, the last one we'll ever see of that nature, perhaps. I do recall Greg being like, this play has got to go away. It has no function anymore. And then bang, the NFL has-Not a single returnable ball. Yeah, exactly. So this is a sea change. There were four touch downs, I said, again, a year ago off kick return. So what if I put, and I almost feel this is conservative because I want to be a dreamer, but what if I put the higher, lower, Dan, Connor, and Gravedigger at 11.5 touch downs this season?

Where would you go, Dan?

Eleven and a half, huh? I'm going to bang the... Because I'm so confused about this still, and as our players, because, for instance, in the Jaguars Chiefs game, there was The play originally ruled a touchback that was overturned and created as a rule to safety.

The reps were confused, initially, on that.

I'm going to say lower. Yeah. I really got to see how the league adapts in the first three or four weeks. Because it's a non-answer, and I apologize, but I'm so in the weeds on it that I need to see how the league adapts to it if it actually makes the difference they think it will. I'll bang the under, though, just because that's such a big jump.

I'm going to bang the under, too. Here's why. I think that like defensive coordinators, special teams coordinators are fearful of giving up big plays. Just like you saw, really starting with the Mahomes era, the blitz rate just completely dropped because what do you not want on your resume? You don't want any of these giant home run, Tyreek Hill, 90-yard touch downs. I think the same is probably true of your special teams coordinators. You're going to be likely to be more risk averse course and try to avoid the return as much as possible. But I was asking around about it, and I think what we need to keep in mind about the preseason, especially preseason games, it's not going to look like that. You have to consider the fact that both of these coaches have probably talked before the game, and they want to get things to look a certain way so they can see guys blocking a certain way. I think not only are we, we haven't even seen anything with a dynamic kickoff yet, because I think a lot of this still is essentially joint practice exercise, right? To the point where one person was telling me, I don't even think those guys are going to drop back.

You see guys falling back like they did during the old kickoff and then coming forward. I don't even know if that's going to happen during games, right? And so why would you give up that ground? You don't know, right? And so it's one of those situations where I think we've got a long way to go on that. But I would say under just because at the end of the day, it's all about job preservation, baby, right? You don't want anybody scoring kickoff return touch downs on you.

So the more you can prevent that- Grave digger, take us somewhere else.

What? I'm going to say higher. Higher? Why not? It's going to be exciting. It's going to be fun. I think Connor is probably right that we haven't seen a lot Is there a vanilla version of a kickoff return? I think probably is what we're seeing. And who knows how creative some of these teams are going to get. I still have a sense that one team before everyone else is going to figure out something special with this, and they're going to score four touch downs in three weeks, and then other people are going to start copying it, and then the defensive side is going to adjust. But I feel like there's definitely potential for some really explosive plays, especially if teams are putting legitimate play makers back there, not just a fifth string wide receiver, third string running back or something. Let's try to actually get really good field position and make something big happen. And just the return rate being so high, if your return rate is 20 %, you're only scoring four because you're only returning one in every five kickoff. If you're returning four out of every five kickoffs, you're going to have a lot more potential to bust a big one.

So I'm going to say higher.

That would be wild. Now, I was famously, super not famously, actually. But I was not into pushing back the extra point because I just thought... I understood why they pushed back. This is about five or six years ago now because it had become a non-play. It was so easy for the kickers and pushing it back, put a lot more pressure on the kicking game, which has enough pressure as it is. But looking back, the NFL was right. It made the extra point a little bit more dramatic. It was a play that you really had to nail rather than just go through the motions. And that's what they're trying to do here. Something Wes always used to say is that what the NFL does so well, historically, is they're not afraid to tinker with the product. That could lead to failures, like say, the pass interference review, challengeable review that lasted one or the initial run of instant replay in the early '90s before they started to figure it out. But it also could lead to the good type of evolution of the sport that makes it more fun to watch. Let's see how it plays out.

How about we take a break, and when we come back, we'll do one more quick round of this and then say our goodbyes. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. It is time for an ad read, and I'll throw it to Mark Edward Sesler for that.

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Mr. F. Very nice. Wow, Mr. F is back in the mix. Sheera is back on the cultural radar. The He-Man and Shira Christmas special for a kid of the '80s, that was a big deal.

Yeah, I believe they made... Because I was trying to do some research, a limited amount of research on Shira, not not going too far down that worm hole, but they did some...

Yeah, be careful there.

I know you got it. I've described how she's like. But they came out with some newfangled version of it. I shared it with Graver. There's a whole soundtrack and everything. A new generation of Shira followers.

Breaking news. On Hum, Raham. According to multiple sources, including Shepter and Rapsheet, Edge rusher, Hassan Redik, has requested a trade from the New York Jets. This is the same Hassan Redik who has yet to play a snap for the New York Jets. They acquired him in a trade from the Philadelphia Eagles. Back in March, and he has been holding out of camp and accruing significant fines in accordance with the CBA Agreement for not reporting to mandatory training camp. And now he wants out of New York feeling that he was misled, boys, when the Jets traded for him. I now have a statement as well to add to this from General Manager Joe Douglas of the Jets. Let's hear that missive music, Justin. We have informed Hassan that we will not trade him, that he is expected to be here with his teammates, and that he will continue to be fined, per the CBA, if he does not report. Since the trade discussions back in March, we have been clear, direct, and consistent consistent with our position. Our focus will remain on the guys we have here as we prepare for the regular season. Marrone. Connor.

As you know, I'm a Jets fan. This one has gotten me. I've had some concern about this from the very beginning because I, in general, don't believe that the Jets operate a buttoned-up operation from the top down. I'm wondering if Joe D, who had his share of hits and misses, handled this the right way. I mean, obviously, his statement here implies, at least publicly, that they were always clear with Reddick that they weren't necessarily going to give him the long term deal he desired. But can you remember in your years covering the sport of a team trading for a player who demands a trade before playing a game for that team he got traded to?

Well, this is just, I mean, it's unforester after unforester. And I think it stems from ownership because Because ask any general manager in the NFL, right? Would you want to pay the guy or not? It's like, yeah, I would like to pay the guy. Just someone give me the money so I can go over and hand it to him. Someone is not allowing Joe Douglas to pay the pass rusher that he went out to go get. It's not like he wants to derail the most critical season of his football life. And I think dating all the way back to the preseason and we're allowing the quarterback to abscon to Egypt, and you can make what you want to make out of it, but the fact that you're labeling it an unexcused absence and making it into something bigger than it is, and you're just leaving these little trails of gunpowder leading to the keg of explosives. Why are we doing this? Why would you Why would you trade for someone who you know wants a new contract without at least having discussed or having the potential to give him that new contract on the opposite end?

I think that it's not Hassan Redik that's being fleeced on this one. I would send my sympathies to to the GM.

I think also it makes you look back on how the offseason unfolded. And you had Bryce Huff, who was a promising player that deserves a larger role, and he's gone. And that's part of the player's choice in that situation, too. But it adds pressure to Will McDonald, who didn't exactly shine last season. You've got a couple of other guys there, but Redik, he seems to move from team to team, but highly productive. I mean, a very productive player who would have fit into a ready to go, play off ready type defense. And it's a distraction at the worst part of the season because, A, it's like you need these guys to start to play together and mesh together. And the last thing the Jets need because they feel very critical mass, like the smallest thing could maybe completely unseat this team. It just happens so many times. No infighting. Can we get this team together? And if it's ownership on down, pay the players and start to make an impact in the AFC East while you have probably one more season of Aaron Rodgers and you're trying to keep them healthy, like losing key player.

Losing a key edge rusher is about as bad as a left tackle, right tackle. It could unspool what could be a very special defense.

It is. It's the ultimate all-in season with the Jets. It does feel like a house of cards. I was fundamentally changed by the events of 9/11/23 when Roger suffered that Achilles tear. I don't feel necessarily great about this season. I do think there's a very high potential for this to flame out, and this is a a lot that only adds to that. Now it's almost like you have a player that's being held hostage by the team, and it's bad vibes, and we'll see what happens going forward. But yeah, you mentioned Will McDonald. They used the first-round pick on Will McDonald last year. If this ends up with Reddick not playing a snap for the Jets, it will be egg on the face no matter how they spin it for the team. But at least you have in McDonald, the guy who they believe, at least in terms of skill set, can handle it. Now, Also, I just want to say about McDonald. He was undersized in terms of where he was playing at. The idea was that he was going to come to camp and beef up. I think it was between 10 and 20 pounds.

He came to camp the same weight he was last year, from what I understand, which to me, a little bit of a red flag itself as well in terms of whether the player is ready to make that leap as a pro. We'll see. I don't know, man. I don't know about the Jets. I mean, it's a new podcast. Should I just bail?

I mean, it's literally We're like 40 minutes into our first venture on this. He the Call pod. And here we go. There is an earthquake happening, by the way. There is an earthquake happening, and it is shaking this room like a crazy man.

Okay.

Let's just get it all God. God's speaking to us in various ways.

It's still shaking.

Yeah. That was a sign about the jet stand. No doubt about it.

That they're going to win the Super Bowl?

Let it go.

Yeah, that was like Marshawn Lynch's beastquake for the Jets just cheering in the stands so hard when they win the Super Bowl.

Start rooting for the Super Bowl. I'm on the seventh story, and I think this floor almost just slid off like a record on a stack of records right off into the Hollywood streets.

That was scary.

Whoa. All right. Well, that's memorable. First show stuff.

You guys at least look ready for it. I don't know if you know this, but we had an earthquake in New Jersey a couple of months ago that was for the first time in a hundred years and the second largest earthquake in the state's history. My first instinct was to take both of my children. My first instinct was I thought my wife broke the dryer, and I was like, You have to stop putting wet towels in there, so many wet towels in there. I thought it was the dryer breaking. But then my second My second instinct was to grab both of my children and move them right over to the floor to ceiling windows so we could look outside and see it. It's apparently one of the most dangerous places to have your kids during an earthquake. We were supposed to go bathtub. Right.

Yeah, we didn't do it.Not there.All right. That was wild. All right, let's hope that was the only one. All right, let's go around the horn one more time before we say goodbye. Connor, your turn.

I would like to know why we aren't talking more about the Jaguars. I think that everyone's just like, Oh, it's going to be cool. They sign Trevor Lawrence to a long-term deal. What if this year is bad? They start the season in Miami playing the Dolphins, which is a terrible place to play early in the year. It's super hot. All their players are healthy. They're going to boat race people early in the season. Then you have the Browns. Then you go at Bills, at Texans, Colts, at Bears. What if that's a bad start to the season? So now you have Trevor Lawrence. His first year was with Urban Meyer. Everything from that season has been thrown into an incinerator, hoping that they're going to forget it. Now you have a second head coach. You've signed him to a long-term contract. That doesn't work. So you're on a third head coach for the gift from God, quarterback, that you've been bestowed, and you still are no closer to figuring it out. I think they're able to hide a little bit sometimes from public view here, but that division has gotten really good. Hopefully, Holy smokes. What if they go 7-10 this year?

I can't think of too many teams that spent a number of months as the It team, the future of the AFC South and the future, potentially in the big packed AFC. And then immediately got swept under by teams in their own division. The CJ Stroud-led Texans became the A's storyline. And now the AFC South, it's not the toughest division, but the cults are rugged. I think the Titans are going to be better than people think. The Texans are a shit like Super Bowl contender if things go right. And you've got the Jaguars sitting there not playing an easy lineup in the South. And now they play the NFC North as well. And the NFC North has completely transformed over the past two seasons. And I'm looking at their schedule, and it starts with a bunch of those road games. And yes, they reside in Florida, so maybe Miami won't be as big of a shock to the system, but that's a tough place to go right out of the gate. And I'm with you. It's like there is a lot of pressure on all parts of that team, and it could get ugly pretty quickly.

Gravedigger. I know you love that. You love the idea of the Jaguars going from the team everyone assumed would dominate for a decade to potential shambles.

I mean, I'm not mad about it. I agree, too, and I'm extremely biased in that viewpoint. But a lot of Jags fans just blamed Calvin Ridley for Trevor Lawrence's struggles last year when he had struggles. And it's not all on Calvin Ridley dropping a few passes here and there.

By the way, 4.7 Earthquake break out of Pasadena for everybody out there wondering. Also for people wondering, with Gravedigger's return to the show, would his rotating Titans helmet in the background that's rotating perhaps 24% faster than it should be, would it still be operational? Would the little motor burn out at some point from the excessive rotation? It's still there, and it's still rotating at a very high rate. That's a little developing news itself.

There's no It's like magnetic. It's suspended between the top and the bottom. You see there's space above and below. That's incredible. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Wait, does that blow anyone else's mind?

Well, no. It just survived an earthquake. It didn't move an inch. I am quite impressed with the technology.

All right. I love watching, and only me, I'm the only one that feels this way, Generational Greatness. Love it. It's why as a child, I remember being fascinated by Mike Tyson. Just the idea of Tyson as the baddest man on the planet. Why I never missed the Michael Jordan, NBC games, even as a Knicks fan. Why now watching Juan Soto and Aaron Judge batting back to back for the Yankees gives me the gitty excitement of Mark Sesler at a Star Wars 7: The Fantomenus Strikes Back anniversary screening. And I hate when... What?

That is just factually incorrect.

And I hate when greatness is denounced denied. That could happen with injury, Bo Jackson down on the ground, grabbing out his hip against the bangles in the playoffs comes to mind. But it could also be denied by just a failure around that generational talent. I'm going to talk about Patrick Mahomes here. It's absurd to say that any system in KC is failing when you consider the Chiefs have won three of the last five Super Bowl. But I'm talking about loving watching Patrick Mahomes kick unholy ass, like earthquake-rattling ass on the football field with his unbelievable skill set that he has. And this Chiefs Wide Receiver, of course, still got me shook. According to the always essential Aaron Shatz FTN football almanac, Chiefs Receivers, and that includes Travis Kelsey and the runningbacks, dropped 35 passes last season, the most in the NFL. Well, other sites had that figure even higher. The wide receiver has also had nine fumbles last season. All of this had an effect, obviously, on Mahomes and enjoying the way he plays as a football fan. He threw for a thousand less yards last year. His shutdown total dropped from 41, which was either at the top or near the top in the league the previous year to a pedestrian 27.

He had more interceptions than in any season of his career. Again, that's not necessarily his fault. Many of them. He was 14th in passer rating, eighth in QBR. I want to underline that I don't think this is Patrick Mahomes' fault. I also don't think that the Chiefs are being run poorly because obviously they're not because they're the champions. But this is just... I just want the Chiefs to get back to letting this man be musty TV again. That takes us to what went down this past weekend, the first play of the preseason, freaking preseason. Hollywood Brown has a sterno-clavicular dislocation. That's a scary injury that can really be life-threatening. They have to reset. It's going to cost him a lot of time, probably about a month. He's probably going to miss the beginning of the season, and that's going to obviously set a new player back. He had come over, obviously, from a couple of years in the wilderness in Arizona, and they had big plans for Hollywood Brown, and he could still be a big player, but that doesn't help. We know everything that's happening with Rashe Rice, who's facing suspension for his offseason of misadventures.

They used a high draft capital, Mark, on Xavier worthy, the combine guy, Texas Longhorn, a grave digger. I know you think he's going to be incredible, and maybe he will, but rookies, you never know. So what's left behind them? You have guys like Kaderi's Tony and Sky Moore, former second-round pick, still involved, but just trying to make the roster. It is going to be tricky, and not for nothing, Markey. Kelsey's 35 now, and I know he had a great payoff, but he showed signs I thought of slippage during the regular season, and he just spent an offseason traversing the world with the most famous woman alive. If Kelsey isn't Kelsey, it gets that much more difficult. Will Mahomes be able to cook this year? Or are we going to be watching a lot more of the Chiefs grinding out primetime victories, which I'm over. I just got to be real. I had to get it off my chest.

Yeah. And that Chiefs fans know about that injury because Tyreek Hills suffered that back in 2019, and he missed four games. So I think you could look at something similar for Hollywood Brown. They seem like for a number of years in a row, you're tracking the Kelsey thing because it's like, I don't want to suggest he's going to be lesser, but that is a possibility. There's age there. They feel like they've got a bunch of wide receiver. They have a ton of wide receiver. Just an immense amount of guys that seem like they are partway there, but not fully there. And it's like you get little playoff heroic moments But it's like the Tyreek Hill trade, and you don't want to spend a lot of time on that now, but it's like that didn't really work out for them because they never really found the next guy. And I think someone like Xavier worthy brings a lot of hope. They are fast. They've got a lot of speed on their team. And I think when we I'm going to talk about the Jets being an inch away from implosion because there's no organizational muscle memory to having succeeded in tough moments or getting over things like that.

And there's a lot of teams like that. The Chiefs are the reverse. They may not be as fun to watch, but it's hard for me if Hollywood Brown comes back in week two or whatever it is to really feel like this team is going to be stretched too thin, that they're not going to find their way out of it. But I think to your point about Mahomes, I think it was like the 10th rated fantasy quarterback in a number of ratings, that you're not getting these massive statistical seasons where they're dumping 400 yards and five touch downs on teams every couple of weeks. They've had to learn to win differently, but that's a strength, too, Connor, I guess. I guess I just trust them, and they find Find a way to get through these little moments of wreckage.

I do think the bills are doing it this year with Josh Allen, and I think that you do have to somewhat organically create your own receiver core if you want to have a financially sustainable football model because receivers are so expensive right now. But to expand on the Kelsey point, I remember talking to Andy Reid about this. He's like, Travis's best trait is getting everybody else in the offense open. If he's 35, which is going to turn 35 this season. I'm 36, I don't feel great getting up every morning. I'm sure Travis maybe feels a little bit better than I do. But if he starts to slow down just a little bit and watch how tight ends of that Ilk age, like Rob Gronkowski got out before we could see him in this way. Like, Mercedes-Lewis is still hanging on, but wasn't nearly the receiving threat, but was dramatically involved in the blocking. George Kittle is going to be another example where what happens when he gets old enough where you You're not super worried about him after the catch. Your defense isn't going to rotate to him. Then all of a sudden, the onus is going to be on these wide receivers way more than it was in the past.

They weren't doing that well when Travis Kelsey was giving them all this open space to begin with.

All right, here we go. One more from Mark Sesler. And then I want to hear from Gravedigger, and then we're out of here.

Yeah. So we could have done a whole show on the quarterbacks that we saw for the first time. I am not falling for this quarterback is going to be a star. But I just wanted to see if Michael Penix... I'm calling this segment Big Penix Energy, because what I liked watching about him, the tape I saw in Washington, where with him and Roman Dunzé just kept hooking up on massive downfield throws. And what I like about Penix was just how aggressive he was. And his mindset seems to be, I don't care if it's third and two like it happened in this game, like I'm against the Dolphins. I'm going to strike deep. He had a beautiful 41-yard strike to Chris Blear. I think that shows you what he can do. There was a lot of other stuff going on in that game where there was a sideline route where he didn't give the wide receiver the greatest chance to catch the ball. He had one that was like a way overshot of someone downfield. He was nine of 16 for 104 yards. But there is something about him that we spent a lot of time talking about why the Falcons did this, what it does for your starting quarterback that you just paid a ton of money to in Kerr Cousins, what it means to have a quarterback behind someone that has spicy traits.

We know he's not a fully developed product. He's also 24. So it's like there's this ticking clock with this guy that you took early in the first round And I just wonder if it changes what might happen to that team. And they're a pretty interesting roster with a lot of promise in a weak division. But Pennex, who's gotten a lot of the reps in camp, obviously, he starts to do things in preseason games. And it's not It's not the same, but when Joe Flacko was the clear starter ahead of first-round pick, Lamar Jackson, and no one was questioning what was going to go on there. And then things just went completely south, and Flacko was sitting, and the whole organization changes. You got a different quarterback there. And I know the money is going to Cousins, but fan bases go nuts. If they got off to a slow start, you get that version of Kirk Cousins, where he's not the perfect guy for four games, but there's mistakes, and they're not winning the way they should at the quarterback position. Does this just create this insane pressure to put someone like Pennex, who's an exciting, engaging, modern-day gunslinger, out on the field off, faults aside?

Yeah. So two really awesome things about Michael Pennex. I think you make a great point, Mark. We had lunch before the Super Bowl this year, and I was talking to him about high school. I asked him, How many plays did you run in high school? Because we were talking about how he got to where he was. He ran eight plays over four years of high school. Eight plays. He saw two different defenses. That's it. He gets to Indiana. No one shows him how to watch film. He starts playing games at Indiana by just memorizing what routes his wide receiver are winning on. Then if he sees it during the game, he knows, Okay, I'll throw to that guy, teaches himself how to watch film, builds himself into this mega quarterback. Then you get to the point where during that first preseason game, I love asking quarterback coaches, What do you want to see out of guys in the first preseason game? One of the things they always say is deep outs. That's like an NFL-level throw. He barely missed one in the first preseason game, but it was like a 16-yard out. But he's left-handed.

He threw it across his body with no effort, and it lands on a dime. These are the little things that his coaches are probably sitting there and being like, Holy smokes. This guy can sling it. It's going to give you that little additional thing that Kirk Cousins doesn't have. We're not even getting into the mobility aspect of it. Kirk Cousins can't run his own read with B. John Robinson. Michael Penix can't. Once you feel confident with him being on the legs when he's gotten injured a few times, once you feel confident enough letting him rip in the running game, it might be over sooner rather than later for Kirk Cousins.

Yeah, we're going to see how all this plays out. I don't have any problem with the Falcons drafting Michael Penix, but I'm never going to change my opinion that I do have a problem with signing Kirk Cousins and then drafting Michael Pennex. It creates a lot of unnecessary drama, potentially. If Pennex ends up turning into a stud, they'll move past it. But this is also your potentially kicking away. I don't know. I just think the process was broken. Maybe it ends in a good spot, but it's also very possible because Kirk Cousins has been a famously consistent and productive quarterback that he'll end up playing there two years. And so whatever he's doing in the preseason, Michael Pennex is the most juice you're going to get from him until he's damn 26 years old. So we'll see how it plays out. Let's throw it to Gravedigger, who is going to give us a quick rundown of anything else from the preseason worth talking about in week one.

Yeah, you guys hit most of it. I'm going to try to do all of this before this two-minute song ends. So let's see if I can do it. Good challenge. Yeah, right. All right, Malik Nabors got zero targets in the first preseason game, exited practice with an ankle injury. Something to watch there. Baltimore, Philadelphia, Ravens rookie, Date Wiggins suffered a shoulder sprain. Definitely should watch that. Also, the Ravens are now on a three-game preseason losing streak after famously winning 24 straight games. You talked about... You talked about Kael Williams. Josh Allen hit Curtis Samuel on a nice pass. That was cool. Jaden Daniels launched a bomb on third down. Huge conversion there, capped off that drive with a rushing shutdown. Also, note, Brian Robinson looks like the guy here in Washington. Austin Eckler, more complementary. Braelen Allen looks like a dude for the Jets. Panthers, Patriots, Drake May played one drive, completed two dump off passes. Joe Milton played a lot and looked pretty good against backups. Carolina played their backups. You hit Atlanta pretty good there with Michael Penix. But I will also say Braeland Trice, third-round rookie, injured his knee, landed on IR.

He was playing with the ones, was going to be part of the Falcons' pass rush. That's a bummer for him. Also, Justin Simmons is visiting the Falcons after he just finished a visit with the Saints. Dolphins played mostly backups, but their rookie running back, Jalen Wright, looked very explosive. Houston, C. J. Stroud played, looked pretty dang good, three and out on the first drive, but then hit tank Dell for a 34-yard-So you're telling me that's a magnet?

That helmet is spinning.

Yes.

By magnetic forces.

The song is going to end here. Stefan Diggs on the sideline, looking upset. Is that already starting? We'll see. Justin Fields did not look good. I think Russell Wilson will start for Pittsburgh. Derek Carr did not look good at all. Taisam Hill lined up at X receiver on the first play of the game for the Saints. I'm very about the Saints. Arizona, mostly backups. Chaos. Seattle. Seattle and LA, chargers played pretty much all backups. Could be important for the chargers if Justin Herbert has to miss any time. All three quarterbacks that played in this game for them looked terrible. Byron Murphy looks like a dude for Seattle. First-round pick out of Texas. You hit the Chiefs. You hit the Jags pretty well. Yes. Bangles' offense looked really good. Joe Burrow played one drive in his return from injury. It was a twelve-play countdown drive. Interesting note on the Bangles, Dax Hill moving from safety to corner. And injury news, rookie first-round pick, Amarius Mims will miss several weeks with a strained peck. Tough break for a guy who's having a good camp. Bucks center. Graham Barton looks really good. Rooky. Interior upgrade for them. Sam Darnold started for the Vikings.

Looked pretty good. Jj McCarthy struggled on his first drive but rebounded and showed a lot of promise. He could be good. Raider's offense looked way better than I expected. Antonio pierce announced on Sunday that he will name a starting quarterback next week after their second preseason game. Green Bay versus Cleveland. Jordan, the last. Wow, look at us. 65-yard Looked good. Out of time. Anthony Richardson struggled. Jared Stidham threw the most hilarious interception I've ever seen. So my J. P. Ryan just juggled the ball right into his hands. Bo Nicks played pretty well. Will Levis led two touch down drives. Wait, he's still going. And this is the last one. No starters played for Cowboys, Rams, but Jordan Woodington looked good. So that's multiple Longhorn shoutouts that I got to give there.

Do you look better than JJ McCarthy? If you were going good versus good, who was the goodder?

A quarterback or what?

Who are you talking about? Just like in terms as a football player? You said they both looked good. Who looked good-er?

I think JJ McCarthy might have looked the best of the rookie quarterbacks, including Caleb Williams, including Jaden Daniels. He got to play a lot more, so he got a chance to show a lot more. And he did struggle. He threw a really, really bad interception. But he also hit two deep shutdown passes that looked pretty beautiful. So into that.

Can I mention one other player?

We should at some point in the show. We're going to do these multiple times a week now. I'm just letting you guys know that.

I know. It's just a quick call back to... I'm trying to collect a receipt on this. In our previous incarnation, I was talking up a Bengals rookie who has a troubled college pass to some degree. Jermaine Burton, big play in that game. And I really think he's... I predict he is going to be a factor in that offense right away.

All right. You've now put down the receipt. It's been a long time since Zack Zenner. You're due for a hit on this one. So I believe in you. I believe.

Also, how about Zack Wilson? 10 of 13, over 100 yards, no interceptions, no sacks.

Zack Wilson proves he can handle the big stage. All right, let's say goodbye. Like I said, like we said, thank you to everybody for your support. Overwhelming support. We hope you enjoyed the show. And no, they're not all going to be this long. But listen, we had a lot to get to, and we wanted to give you that balance of truth and honesty about our journey to this point, and also get some football in and reintroduce you to the great Gravedigger and the awesome Connor Orr. And check out Connor at Sports Illustrator, where he's a senior writer. Of course, what do you got coming up on the SI side, Connor.

Guys, the football preview issue is coming out next week, and it's big, and it's beefy, and coolest cover that I've seen in probably three or four years since I've been there. I worked on it, very excited about Buy it, okay?

Excellent. Nice. Good plug. I want to send a special birthday wish to Jack Hanses, who turns 10 years old today. So 8, 12, 14 was the most important special day of my life when it happened. And this is obviously one of the biggest days, Mark, of our career. So 8/12. I hope everybody's okay from that earthquake. And yeah, thank you. Not just to the listeners, Mark. I think our family Emily, my wife, has been so important to this in terms of support and even helping us out with the business side of things. I love her, and I'd be lost without her. Also, all our friends and former colleagues that reached out to us privately during all this. Thank you to you guys as well.

I think I've learned that when you stop making money for nine weeks, you find out things about various people, and the people that I would want to find out things about, I'll pass that test inside. But I almost want to say sorry to my family because my extended family came out for a visit in the middle of all this, and I was like an absolute dire stress ball, and I don't think I wish I could have those days back. But they also just complete and total support the whole time. And thank you to everyone. We are back, barring an earthquake, taking a second earthquake here. Don't need that.

Wonderful. All right. I think that's it. We'll be back Wednesday with another show. We got some announcements coming up in terms of more content and how we're going to be able to reach you guys, the listeners, in ways we never could before. So we are off and running on this beautiful new journey. Mark, I love being on the ride with you. And we're going to go straight up there, Mark. Straight through the atmosphere together. Until next time.

Heed the public.

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