Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to get new episodes of Morning Joe and the Rachel Maddow Show, Ad Free. Plus, Ad Free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra, Bagman, and Deja News. And now, all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content, including How to Win 2024, Prosecuting Donald Trump, Why Is This Happening? And more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Donald Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression.

And what we have done is clean up Donald Trump's mess.

She's a Marxist. Everybody knows she's a Marxist. Her father's a Marxist professor in economics, and he taught her well.

One does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government, and Donald Trump certainly, should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.

In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating They're eating the pets of the people that live there.

You talk about extreme. Are you now acknowledging that you lost in 2020?

No, I don't acknowledge it at all. But you did say that. I said that sarcastically. You know that. We said, Oh, we lost by a whisker. That was said sarcastically.

Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people. So let's be clear about that. And clearly, he is having a very difficult time processing that.

Hello, and welcome How to Win 2024. It's Thursday morning, September fifth. I'm Claire McCascoll. I'm here with my guest copilot today, Elise Jordan. I'm thrilled. She's an MSNBC political analyst, contributor to Time magazine, former aid to George W Bush Whitehouse, and the State Department. Hey, Elise, thank you for doing this.

Thanks so much for having me, Claire.

All right, first off, before we get started, I want to remind our listeners that the first two episodes of our series, The Threat of Project 2025, are available right now. Episode one is a look at reproductive rights and abortion with Ali Velshi. And in episode two, Joy Reid digs into the risk to education. You can find those first two episodes in the How to Win feed now. Episodes three and four on LGBTQ rights and climate change will be available this coming Monday. Those will be hosted by Jen Saki and Chris Hayes. Now, Elise, let's get to the fun stuff.

Okay, with 54 days to go and the first and maybe the only debate behind us, the first ballots of the 2024 general election are out and they have headed to voters in Alabama. In a bit, we're going to dig into Tuesday's momentous debate with campaign insider and senior advisor to vice President, Harris, and our good friend, Adrienne Elrod.

But first, let's start with my favorite part of every episode. It's when I I am in the room directing strategy. It's getting real. Typically, for a presidential campaign, this would be called the sprint to the finish. For this particular campaign, it's also the beginning. It is really when everything matters, when every single day you have to chalk a win. That's how I think people should realize campaigns look at it. They look at it day by day. What do we have to get accomplished today? Did we win today? There's all kinds of factors they look at for a win on every day. You just put one day in the win column, a next day in the win column, and then pretty soon, a year or two election day. I'm going to start with the endorsements. I can be argued in or out of this. Part of me doesn't think any of the endorsements mean shit. I used to make the joke, If the good Lord himself endorse me, I'm not sure it would make a difference. It's one of these things that you wonder if it matters. Let's listen to Liz Cheney and her pitch to people saying it's not enough just to not vote for Trump.

Given how close this race is, in my view, again, it's not enough.

You have many Republicans out there who are saying, Well, we're not going to vote for him, but we will write someone else in.

I think that this time around, that's not enough, that it's important to actually cast a vote for Vice President Harris. Okay. Then Dick Cheney. Do you think the Cheneys matter?

I think it's It's unlikely, of course, to move any Trump voters to the other side at this stage in the game or even move undecided voters. But it is a permission structure that allows Republicans and voters at lean right to start thinking about, Hey, maybe I would defect. They did it. And that's why the collective letter from all the different Republican officials from previous campaigns and administrations, it is something. But then there's the generals, which I'm really torn on having military officers in Of course, I think of General George Marshall, who never voted in a presidential election. I knew so many generals like that that I met when I was working in the government national security realm. On those endorsements, I'm a little mixed. But then there's the next category, the endorsement of all endorsements, the greatest of all time endorsement that I think Kamala Harris could have gotten, and that's Taylor Swift. I think that her endorsement actually could be impactful.

Yeah. We've got and we've got the Chinese, and we've got, frankly, an unprecedented number of Republican officials. We'll call that the permission structure. We'll call that the ability of soft Republicans, ones that don't love the idea of voting for a Democrat, aren't excited about Kamala Harris, but can't stand Donald Trump. And you know, Elise, that's probably 20% maybe of people who identify as Republicans.

Oh, yeah. It's definitely a super large faction of the Republican Party. It's really the base, the diehards, the activists that would walk over nails for Donald Trump. They are the ones who are still the so-called cult-like fervor. But then, hold your nose, Republicans are that 20% that don't really want to do it, but they always vote Republican, and so they are still going to go forward with that.

Yeah, I'd put Nikki Haley in that group. God love her. She's got to be dying. I'd put Mitch McDonald in that group. He can't stand Donald Trump, but he's doing what he has to do to protect his Senate candidates. I think we need to remind people that every single Republican Senate candidate that is running to try to deliver the majority of the Republican Party is running behind Donald Trump in their states. Donald Trump is doing better than the candidate in Pennsylvania, the candidate in Wisconsin, the candidate in Michigan, the candidate in Arizona, the candidate in Nevada, all of them, even the candidates in Texas and Florida, they're running behind Trump.

In terms of Arizona, I wonder, is Carrie Lake a drag on the Trump ticket? Other Republicans, yes, she is. Who knows how Arizona will go at the end of the day. These races are all so close, and it's going to be nail-biters. But Arizona Republicans tend to be McCain Republicans, more libertarian, and not this mega absolutism that we've seen the current incarnation of the Republican Party.

Why they're stupid? Well, it's hard to say. How can you even judge what the stupidest thing that Donald Trump has done? They're eating the dogs. They're eating the dogs. Yeah. It made everybody laugh out loud. But I don't think we should forget what's underneath that comment. It's brutal racism. It is brutal marginalizing a population. The Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, are there legally? They're working hard. They're contributing to the community. And to marginalize them is dangerous to those people. While we're all having a laugh at Trump's expense, we shouldn't forget how potentially deadly serious this is to a hardworking group of people who deserve so much better. But the celebrity celebrity stuff. I think you're right about Taylor Swift. I look at my own family, and I have a very large family, and close to monolithic in terms of their politics, but not completely. Taylor Swift matters to the younger people in my family. I typically I think celebrity endorsements don't matter, but did you see how visites tovote. Gov? Yes. The ability to look and see if you're registered and registered. You see how it spiked? 300,000 people went to the website to check on their voting status or to register to vote in the hours after she endorsed, after she put that on her Instagram account.

No, she's huge. And her Instagram account, keep in mind, 283 million strong. She has so many Instagram followers who are still going to be going back to that post and keep adding to the 10 million likes. With the Taylor Swift category and her endorsement and how it matters, too, I am thinking of a category of Republican voters we call the Dobbs Dads, the Red Dawn Conservatives. They lean right, but they are not happy with the direction that Republicans have gone on reproductive rights in women's health care because of the women in their life. And did a fair amount of focus groups with this particular subset.

Yeah, tell me about those guys. I want to know about these guys.

In Wisconsin at the beginning, Wisconsin and Michigan at the beginning of June. So Joe Biden was still in the race, but we were talking to, we did a bunch of daughters who their dads disagreed with them politically, and they were Democrats, and then we did the fathers. And it was really fascinating to hear what would be effective with them, considering their daughters coming to them and telling them to not vote for Donald Trump. And a personal story about how it impacts their health was something that these dads, they were really moved by it. And we actually use the clip of Taylor Swift talking to her dad and arguing with her dad about whether to endorse Phil Brettison in the Senate election against Marsha Blackburn, I guess, two cycles ago. And the women and the men could really relate to how they were having this discussion within their families and hashing it out. It underscored to me how important it is for these issues to have resonance with the people you love. By Taylor Swift making this call and making this endorsement, she really is going to mobilize so many young women to talk to the men in their lives.

Yeah, and I got a kick out of Trump saying that it was going to hurt her.

Oh, man. That's delusional.

He clearly has not been to a Taylor Swift concert. Yeah, I think it's a big deal. I will bet you something. I will bet you that in the week before the election, there is a rally that features Beyoncé, don't you think?

And Beyoncé has quite the power base, too. A big endorsement, though, that personally motivates me came today, too, in the wake of Taylor. Stevie Nicks also said that she endorses Kamala Harris. So let these female greats just keep- Linda Ronsted.

She came out this morning. Because Trump is going to a venue in Tucson that has her name on it. She put out a letter this morning saying, No, no, no. And by the way, pointed out that she was not married, adopted two children, and has a cat. The non-birth mother cat ladies of the world are rising in unison to give him shit, which I love.

Oh, man. I don't want to go too off topic, but talk about a disaster of a VP pick. It just every day, worse and worse and worse.

Yeah, he He doesn't get it. We've talked about on this pod before, the terrible advance work in the donut shop. But I got to tell you, I have been in situations where the advance work was not great. He could have salvaged that if he had any personality. You could salvage an awkward situation if you know how to relate to people. He clearly doesn't know how to relate to folks. You compare and contrast that with Tim Walls. It's quite a difference.

Right. I think you just nailed it. He doesn't have the intangible it factor that so many great politicians have. I'm sure you could just name so many of your former colleagues who really had it. It's so intangible. It's hard to describe.

But you know it when you see it. Yeah, you know it when you see it. Exactly. Okay, let's get to the economy. What do you think? What does she need to do?

She's got to get out there and make the case that voters are better off than they were four years ago under Donald Trump. This is an area where I think she's got to be stronger. You can see where's the Trump campaign spending money on ads. They're doing ads about the economy and about inflation. She really has to overcome that voters think that Trump is stronger on the economy, and that's what polling has consistently shown. She's got to make the case that what the Biden administration inherited from Donald Trump in terms of record unemployment and a mismanaged global pandemic that shut down the economy and just point out the Biden administration has brought down inflation. Unemployment is historically low, not the lowest, but it's at a low after the record highs that happened under Donald Trump during the pandemic. The destruction to the economy during the Trump administration, that's something that she is going to just have to really hammer into and just give those specifics that voters want to hear. Because those undecided voters that were tuning into the debate the other night, that's what so many of them are really listening for. They want to know that the leader understands that this isn't as good as it should be and is conscious in trying to make it better.

Yeah, I think what she's doing on housing helps. I think she's mentioned it, she She's made it really a focus of getting folks into housing and housing costs. But just using the phrase opportunity economy is not going to be enough. I mean, I think it's a great phrase. I get what she's trying to do. But to a lot of undecided voters, it sounds more the same. It sounds like empty political rhetoric. She's got to get some specifics behind it and maybe some ads that specifically go into her price gouging stuff and maybe some specific contrast ads of what it was when he left office and what it is now, really highlighting the positives in the economy compared to what it was when Biden took over. I think they're going to have to put some meat on the bone. She should do that without saying Biden's name, which, of course, she should not say. But a really strong contrast add on the economy is something that I think she's got to put some money behind, especially digitally.

Well, also in explaining what tariffs will mean for the average buyer's pocketbook, what's that going to mean for the price of if you need a new washing machine, price of a pair of blue jeans, even a suit, just how this is essentially a tax on Americans, another tax. It's not going to be the fix all that Donald Trump seems to think it will be.

Nobody in America understands how tariffs work, including Donald Trump.

Imagine Donald Trump talking about something that he has no idea. He has no idea.

He has no idea. Okay, I know we got to go, but I've just got to mention briefly, I'm really proud of the people across the country who have funded, and a lot of Missourians, the effort to vote on the first reversal of abortion ban in the country in Missouri. They have tried everything to keep it off the ballot. The folks doing this have been tenacious. They've been professional. They've known what they were doing. This week, a lower Court judge threw it off the ballot, and the Missouri Supreme Court, which is dominated by a majority of Republican appointees, put it back on the ballot, and Missourians are going to get a chance to vote to reverse the most aggressive abortion ban in the country in November. I'm thrilled about that. Okay, we're going to pause here. We're going to talk turkey about the debate. It's going to be fun stuff because we get to talk about the debate back in just a minute. Sunday, September 29th on MSNBC, Simone Sanders Townsend and Melissa Murray explore the power Black women hold in this year's election. Black Women in America, Sunday, September 29th at 9:00 PM Eastern on MSNBC and streaming on Peacock.

Welcome back. My co-host, Elise Jordan, is still with me. Okay, Elise, let's dig into the debate. There's a lot of buildup and hang ringing around a debate like this. This has really took on outsize importance as presidential debates go, just because of what had come before it. I remember back in the good old days where people said debates don't matter, and they can never, ever, ever say that again. She, of course, once again, was underestimated and overperformed, did wonderfully. Even her split screen facial expressions ended up being such an asset in the digital world. We each know how it felt watching it. We wanted to get a sense of how the campaign is feeling about the vice president's performance, both in style and substance. We are really lucky. Thank God, I ran into her in the spin room, and I saw her, we hugged, and I said, We need you. She said, I'll be there. This is the person she is. We are very lucky to have Adrienne Elrod with us. She is a senior advisor and senior spokesperson for the Kamala Harris campaign and a good friend to both of us and somebody we respect immensely.

Welcome, Elrod.

Oh, thank you so much, Claire. It's great to be with you and Elise today.

All right. I know you guys feel good. Couldn't not feel good after what happened. Why don't you tell us what were your favorite moments and what you thought the highlights were of the debate?

Well, first of all, she prepared very heavily for this, as you know, Claire. When you prepare a lot for debates, when you prepare for different scenarios, it shows. That's exactly what happened on Tuesday night. I guess some of my favorite moments were, obviously, the abortion issue. She really stuck it to him.

Trump abortion bans that make no exception even for rape and incest, which understand what that means. A survivor of a crime of violation to their body does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next. That is immoral. One does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government, and Donald Trump certainly, should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.

You could feel the passion in her coming out. She obviously knows this issue very, very well. I think her experience as a former prosecutor certainly played into her being able to make an argument there. But I guess my favorite moment was not necessarily one moment, but it was just the way that she was able to bait Donald Trump to come out on some of the issues that he's written things on Truth Social, or he's tweeted things, or he has things at rallies that he's not really willing to say in a larger, more public audience with both Democrats and Republicans listening. And she was able to bait him to do that.

And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom. The Wharton School has said is Donald Trump's plan would actually explode the deficit. Values I bring to the importance of homeownership knowing not everybody got handed $400 million on a silver platter and then filed bankruptcy six times. If you want to really know the inside track on who the former President is, if he didn't make it clear already, just ask people who have worked with him. His former Chief of Staff of Four Star General has said he has contempt for the Constitution of the United States. His former national security adviser has said he is dangerous and unfit.

I think the American people were able to get a full picture of the President Donald Trump would be if he got back into the White House, what a Donald Trump 2.0 presidency would look like. I think it it was her ability to bait him. I think it was also her ability to drive a contrast, which is super important in this campaign. Of course, Claire, as you know, the campaigns and elections are about choices. She gave that to the American people. She gave them a choice. She made it very clear that you can go the Donald Trump way, which is a way of divisiveness. He wants to set us back, not forward. Or you can go the Kamala Harris way, which is to chart a new course in America. We have this campaign that we're calling right now, which is the new way forward campaign. She talked a lot about what her vision is for America, what her vision is for middle-class families. She was able to draw that contrast while also able to bait him. It was really a masterful performance across the board.

Adrienne, can you take us in the room with her debate prep? How did she prepare? We've heard a lot about how Kamala Harris always is the most well brief. She does her reading. Simone Sanders gave her a really interesting anecdote about how before visiting various locations, she always wants to know the price of gasoline, which I found amazing because it just shows that she wants to connect with her local audiences. What do you know about how she prepared for the debate?

Yeah, well, at least I want to make it clear I was not a part of her debate prep team, but I was certainly aware of the way that she was preparing because number one, she is somebody who is very well known, as you just noted from what Simone said, as being very, very prepared. She wants to go through all scenarios. She wants to make sure that she can answer questions in various ways while still getting back to the same point, which is the overarching theme of fighting for the American people, fighting to lower costs for families, et cetera. She wanted to go through a bunch of different scenarios there. The bottom line is not only does debate prep help, but when you're on the right side of the American people, when you're fighting for the issues that matter to them, when you're putting them first, it shows. That certainly came across on Tuesday night.

It gets me emotional. There are so many disadvantages in American politics to be in a woman. Kamala came up through the system in a very similar fashion to how I came up through the system. I remember ever been told as a young woman, as I'm sure she was by a mentor who was probably a woman, that knowledge is power and that men will underestimate you, but if you know more, you can overcome a lot. I get emotional. I'm sorry, but I get emotional thinking about it because she knows that. She knows that knowledge is power and that it matters to be overprepared, especially when you're going up against a guy who thinks he doesn't need to know other than the fact that he's the best and speaks just in hyperbole, mostly bullshit hyperbole. I see her and her being overprepared. Hillary Clinton was the same way. Hillary Clinton knew more. I'm so proud that we have finally gotten to the point where that overpreparation really pays off because it really paid off Tuesday night. It just makes me very proud of her. I know this is not a gender campaign. It's not. It is about somebody who is prepared and qualified against a disaster.

Correct. It is not a gender campaign. But I had to just get that in because for all the women out there who have overprepared and worked longer and harder than the guys, this is your moment.

Claire, that's beautiful. Yes.

And that was something I wanted to ask you about Claire, too, because, yes, she prepared, but it was her execution in the moment, which is so hard to do and Very few in American political history have done with the deafness that she just gutted Donald Trump the other night on stage. Do you think it was her background as a prosecutor? I know that you two have that background. And how did that contribute to her performance?

Yeah, listen, if you have a young lady in your life that wants to hold political office, even a young man, there is no better training, no better training than being in the courtroom. Very few people don't get in the courtroom anymore. Going in a courtroom is really risky because you win or lose. But if you're a prosecutor, you have no choice but to go in the courtroom. She was an assistant prosecutor like I was. She was in the courtroom, and you never know what's going to happen. I saw her as a senator. She and I used to fist bump because she was on the Homeland Security Committee with me, and she would cross-examine Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly. She would have him squirming, and I would just grin because I could see her using cross-examination skills, being careful not to ask a question that you don't know the answer to, using the question to make the point. You saw her over and over again on Tuesday night using those skills. So go run and get a job in a prosecutor's office If you want to run for office someday, especially if you want to be President of the United States.

I love it. I love it.

Okay, so let's talk about what I think happened on Tuesday night. You don't have to say this, Aarod, because you're with the campaign and you shouldn't say things like this. But bottom line is he shrunk in front of our very eyes. You took this bigger than life guy, which is what he appears to people because he's always used hyperbole. I'm the best. Our buildings are the best. I've made the most. Our stakes are wonderful. They're the best. Everything's the best. He took that hyperbole and he looked like a buffoon. He just looked like a buffoon. Everybody knows she's a Marxist. All the legal scholars wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. Every time he dropped one of those, he shrunk because people watching it went, Wait, all the legal scholars didn't want to overturn Roe v Wade? No, women didn't want Roe v Wade to be overturned. She did such a good job on that answer, actually meeting that and saying, You're buffoonery and executing babies. Everybody knows that we're not executing babies in America. And he keeps doing that. He is like, he's over in this corner where it has worked for him all of his life, and he can't figure out why it's working for him anymore, right?

Yeah, that's right. Look, he was angry and rattled in that moment, Claire. And he did look little. I can say that. He looked small. He looked like he was unmatched. The bully that he is couldn't handle this. And she really stuck it to him. She told the stories of The millions of Americans, women in particular, who have been harmed by Trump's abortion bans across the country. She really told stories about women. I think she used the term like women who are literally bleeding in front of hospitals and can't get any support.

Pregnant women who want to carry a A pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail, and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot. She didn't want that. Her husband didn't want that.

We saw this in some of our dials, which is when you're testing some of your swing voter audiences, how they're reacting to certain moments in the debate. That was one of our highest moments that resonated in the dials. I know Elise gets excited because this is her jam, too.

Talk about that, what that is, because I don't think people understand the dials. I was getting text messages all during the debate about the dials. I know Pluff even tweeted about the dials in real-time, that it was the biggest margin he'd ever seen in a dial. Explain to our listeners what the dials are. You guys are, frankly, two of the foremost experts on the dials. How many people are doing this and where are they? Tell us about behind the curtain on this, because I think it's interesting and people don't know about it.

Basically, what they do is they have a certain number of people in swing states, in the battleground states that were really fighting the in this election. They literally turn a dial. When there's something that really resonates with them, they turn the dial up. And so the repro discussion was one where the dials were very high. And to your point, Claire, that you made about David Plouffe, I mean, boy, he's been through a number of debates before he has seen it all. And the fact that he tweeted that this is one of the biggest margins he's seen in terms of resonating with swing voters, suburban women who are going to drive a lot of the decisions in this election, really says all you need to know about the importance of this issue in campaign, the fact that so many Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, that doesn't necessarily fit into a political party. It's across the board. Have great concerns about Roe v Wade being overturned. And most importantly, what she reminded the American people on Tuesday night is that if you think it's bad right now with Roe v Wade being overturned, think about what a national abortion ban would look like in this country.

Think about what all the states who have passed, allowed for abortions to take place in the states. Think about what those states would look like if that didn't happen. And Trump tried to run away from it. I noticed today in some of the press that he's now having a hard time with this space because they're like, Wait, we thought you didn't like IVF. Wait, we thought we knew where you stood on Roe. And now you said in front of millions of Americans that you're wishy-washy on this. Which, again, he's been saying for a long time, but this was a captive audience of millions of Americans, many of those voters undecided who were tuning in to try to use that moment on Tuesday night to decide who they're going to vote for. It really was a very resonant moment for us on the campaign. At least, I'm not in the game of predicting polls. We know this election is going to be very, very close. But I think in terms of the issues that matter to the American people in this election, I think we're going to see some real confidence boosting in terms of the way people know that she will handle an issue like Roe.

Let's play the audio of his statement about fertilization. That was another moment. Great.

Another lie. It's another lie. I have been a leader on IVF, which is fertilization. The IVF, I have been a leader. In fact, when they got a very negative decision on IVF from the Alabama courts, I saw the people of Alabama and the legislature, two days later, voted it in. I've been a leader on it. They know that, and everybody else knows it.

There were several moments where even in the spin room, I don't know where you were watching the debate, Adrienne, but I watched it amongst hundreds of journalists in the spin room. They're very careful about not most journalists. They don't react. But there were several times where you can audibly hear the laughs, that people just burst out laughing.

I can't. I know.

What are you talking about? You just can't. You just can't.

Adrian, he said so many crazy things in the debate. What was the most surprising thing that he said? Was there anything that just shocked the campaign? They couldn't believe he came out with it.

Well, it's a great question because I think on a couple of things, I was watching with some of our senior staff upstairs in our hold room, and when he did talk about eating dogs, I think we were all a gas. We were like, What is he talking about? We had to play it back to make sure we understood it for the first time, which we still didn't really understand what it meant, but we knew that it was not a good thing. But of course, you've seen gazillion of memes. And Elise and I both are corgy dog moms, and a bunch of corgy memes came up in my Instagram with dogs running away from the TV at that moment. Something else that he said that maybe it didn't feel as big in the moment, but it's something that I couldn't believe that he actually... Well, I guess I could believe it, but he said that America is a failing nation.

Our country is being lost. We're a failing nation. It happened three and a half years ago. What's going on here, you're going to end up in World War III. We're a failing nation. We're a nation that's in serious decline. We're being laughed at all over the world. All over the world, they laugh. I know the leaders very well. They're coming to see me. They call me. We're laughed at all over the world.

And yes, there were some moments that felt more extreme. Obviously, the IBF thing, We certainly can't figure out what position he has on that. But to call America a failing nation, that was such a defining moment for us because it really made it clear why vice President Harris is in this campaign. She does not see America as a failing nation. She sees America as a place of prosperity, of hope, of promise, a beacon of democracy. She wants to see us moving this country forward. That is her whole campaign. It's what she stands for. Every policy that she puts out, every contrast she makes comes under the banner of, I want to move our country forward. Our big theme that we have right now, we're calling it a new way forward tour where we have a surrogate in every media market in every battleground state over the next few days. Of course, the vice President will be in North Carolina. Governor Walls is traveling. We're doing a lot of surrogate travel as well into these states. We're calling it a new way forward because that really is the theme of this campaign, that everything that she's proposing, everything that she talks about, sees America moving forward as a country.

That goes toward lowering costs for families. It goes toward expanding economic freedoms, reproductive freedoms. It's a new way forward. For him to say that America is a failing nation really demonstrates the fact that he wants to take us backward and that he's seeking political office again because he wants to keep himself out of jail. You're right.

That was huge.

Yeah, it was big. Stay with me here, Adrienne and Elise. After the break, I want to take a look at what's next for the campaign. We'll talk more about the strategy in the swing states as November inches closer and closer. Back with more in a moment. Sunday, September 29th on MSNBC, Simone Sanders Townsend and Melissa Murray explore the power Black women hold in this year's election. Black Women in Cookele. Com. Sunday, September 29th at 9:00 PM Eastern on MSNBC and streaming on Peacock. Only on Meet the Press. Just days after the presidential debate, how did it impact the race and what will it change in the final sprint to election day? Kristen Walker sits down with VP Nominee JD Vance and former presidential candidate, Pete Buttagej on Meet the Press. Listen to the whole episode now wherever you get your podcast. Okay, welcome back. My co-host, MSNBC Political Analyst, Elise Jordan, is still with me, as is Adrienne Elrod, a senior advisor and senior spokesperson for the Kamala Harris 2024 campaign. All right, let's look what's next. New way forward, great way to describe it in In more ways than one. Smart messaging, not shocking.

But let's get down to some of the nitty-gritty. Will the campaign play in states like Florida? Are we going to limit it to Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and North Carolina? Is it going to be those seven? Is there any talk about expanding the map in any way? The money is rolling in because people are really wanting to help. I'm shocked. I mean, by the way, Trump is out having to go to fundraisers. Kamala Harris is not going to have to go to a fundraiser. There are no fundraisers on her schedule. The money is coming in online from normal everyday folks are giving 10 $20, $30 because they care so much about her being the next president. Any chance the map expands?

Not really, no. I mean, the states you mentioned, Claire, first of all, the path to victory that we consider to be the easiest, I guess, or The most viable is, of course, through the Blue Wall, which is by tradition. It's Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, and then, of course, Nebraska, too. If we win all three of those states in Nebraska, too, we hit 270, which is what we need to hit. We also, of course, are investing very heavily. As case in point, the vice president is in North Carolina today. We're very bullish on North Carolina. We've been bullish for a long time when we had a different candidate. We were bullish there, too, for a number of reasons. Number one, Claire, you probably remember this. In 2020, we basically had on the Biden campaign no investments in North Carolina, and we lost the state by, I think, about 1.2 points. This time around, there's a guy running on the Republican side for governor.

He makes Trump look normal.

I was going to say he makes Trump look normal. Yeah.

For the people who haven't looked it up, look up Robinson online and see the crazy shit this guy said.

It's pretty insane. We're investing very heavily in North Carolina. The demographics also are very suited for us. A lot of highly educated suburban voters in the state, a large Black population. It really suits the Kamala Harris coalition that she's built and that she's continuing to expand upon. Georgia. We won Georgia in 2020. That's a state that we also feel good about. We're investing very heavily there. And of course, also in Arizona and Nevada. Florida, we are making investments there. We just launched our reproductive rights tour, I think about two weeks ago, and we launched that tour in Florida, in part because of, of course, abortion is on the ballot in Florida. Number one. Number two, it's in Trump's backyard. Number three, there are a lot of down-ballet races there that if we can close the margins in Florida, you are going to be able to get more Democrats, not only in Congress, but in state and local elected races there, too. So that's important. But when it really comes down to it, the seven most important states are the Blue Wall, North Carolina, Georgia, Nevada, and Arizona. That's where we are heavily invested. Look, I've been talking a lot with some of our campaigns teams.

We've been going out on the road and doing presentations in front of different groups of people. One of the things that we talk a lot about is this race is going to be won or lost on the margins. When you look at all seven battleground states, we could either win those states by a small margin or we could lose them by a small margin. The investments that we've been making in these states, I think we've got about 230 field offices in seven battleground states. We've got 1,800 staff. All those investments we've been making long before, we have the current candidate, the vice president is our candidate, are going to pay off in the end, but it's still going to be very, very close. We live in a country of close elections, and that's just what's going to happen this time around as well.

Well, that's what I was going to ask you, just how you are in the turnout operation, because the debate really showcased Kamala Harris's personality, which is important. She really passed that test, I think, in contrast to Donald Trump. Now at this point, when so many opinions are dug in, how confident are you that the machine is ready to get out those low propensity voters?

We feel very confident, at least in the infrastructure that we laid in these states in the ground game. Trump has been going there and saying that he's running a more digital type of ground game. I don't really know how that works. We actually have the human capital on the ground. We're making those investments in the states, and we are taking nothing for granted. We are making it very clear to the people who support Kamala Harris, this is not an election where you sit on the couch. If it's raining on election day, you don't sit on the couch, you show up, you wait in line, and you vote. It's going to come down to a very, very close election in many of these places. While we do have the infrastructure in place, it's going to be very helpful. We still know this is going to be very close, and we are making it very clear to every single person who intends to vote for Kamala Harris that we'd like for them to make a plan and vote early. If that means voting in person early, voting absentee, whatever their choice may be, whatever makes the most sense in that particular state, make a plan Figure out how you're going to vote.

If you're going to wait until election day, stay in the line. Don't sit this one out because this is going to be very, very close. I don't have to tell the two of you in your audience why it's going to be close, because the last two elections for President have We've been extremely close, and we have no reason to believe that this one's going to be any different.

Pulling back the curtain a little bit on the ground came. Now, I'll tell you a true story. I talked to somebody who is running one of those operations. They have twice the resources they've ever had in a presidential campaign coming from the Harris campaign, twice. Okay? Wow. They are really investing in this. Secondly, they advertise for help because they aren't getting enough volunteers. They had a contact with somebody on the Trump Now, keep in mind that RNC quit doing this because they wanted to hire people.

Exactly. That was what I was going to say.

They want to hire people to go around and try to invalidate your votes or get you not to vote. They're busy hiring lawyers to try to screw with your election results after the fact. They farmed out their entire ground operation to people who've never done it before. The people are advertising on Indeed for Trump to try to get volunteers. Our folks are doing a little bit of advertising on Indeed. Somebody in the Trump operation actually called somebody in our operation and said, How do you get these people to show up? That's crazy. Of course, our people did not share with them the secret sauce that they have learned over many election cycles, how you identify the right workers, how you hire the right workers to augment the volunteers that show up. By the way, if you're in Florida or Texas, you should do the same thing for the Senate candidates. Because if Kamala Harris gets elected President and has to deal with a Republican Senate, it is going to be tough. We have a chance to in Florida and Texas. Go out there, and it won't kill you to knock on a door. Trust me, I've knocked on thousands of them.

You'll be fine. They're not going to send you anywhere. You're not safe.

Claire, I love that you're saying this because literally, I was just talking to a Republican operative who was talking about how Ted Cruz is in a more competitive race. Yes. Then people realize that Alan Howard is a better candidate than Betto. Then in Florida, Senator Rick Scott has problems, too.

So unpopular. He's not a likable guy, and he's been around forever, and he's a rich billionaire that ripped off the healthcare system. Come on. What's there not to hate about this guy?

He was in this thin room on Tuesday.

Oh, yeah, he was. For Trump. Yeah, I know he was.

It was a cast of characters for sure.

Okay, so we are worried, at least I talked about in the last segment, we're a little worried about the economic stuff. I think there needs to be more meat on the bone. I think just using the phrase opportunity economy is not enough. Tell me what you guys are doing to put some more meat on the bone because that's the only vulnerability I see she's got in the homestretch.

Well, a couple of things, Claire. I mean, first of all, she's put out a couple of policies since she's been the candidate. She put out her small business plan, which is a plan focusing on lowering costs for small businesses, which, of course, will lower costs for families. She's put out a little bit of her tax policy, how she's going to lower costs for middle-class families. You're going to see her talk more about her plans. We just updated our website to include a few more policy proposals. You're going to see her talk more about her policies on the campaign trail. Look, when it comes to what she and President Biden were able to accomplish, she's proud of the infrastructure bill they passed. She's proud of the fact that they created 15.5 million in counting jobs. A lot of those jobs, of course, close to a million of those jobs were manufacturing jobs. A lot of those jobs don't require a college degree. You're going to hear her talk about some of the work that she and the President have done, but she's going to continue to talk about what her own agenda would look like when it comes to the economy.

It's something we're taking seriously. Lowering costs for families is something that is a huge priority for not only the vice president, but she understands it's a huge priority for voters, and she will continue to talk about ways that she's going to do that.

What about town halls? Is she going to do town halls?

I think you'll hear us announced in the very near future some more things that she's going to be doing. We have a couple of things coming up that we have not announced yet, so I don't want to get in front of our announcement. But we definitely have some stuff cooking, as we say in the south. So stay tuned for that. But she's also going to continue, Claire, to go out to battleground states where she's drawing giant crowds. North Carolina, we expect a large crowd today in both Greensboro and Charlotte. She's been drawing crowds of 15,000 people. I, by the way, went to a Pearl Jam last Saturday night with Doug Imhoff, the second gentleman, with Jennifer Paul-Merry and a couple of other folks from the campaign. Governor Shapiro was in our box. I think the stadium that we were at in Philadelphia sat about 15,000 people. I looked around that place and I thought, my gosh, this is what a Kamala Harris rally looks like, because those are the crowds that she's attracting, 12, 15,000 people, Depending on where she is, she will do interviews. She will find more ways to engage with voters on the issues that matter to them.

We've got, I think, 53 days left in this campaign. Just stay tuned. We've got more to say on all this.

Let's spend just a minute on vice presidential candidate Tim Walls in his debate.

What do you think? Look, I think he's going to be fantastic. He's been preparing. It's coming up in, I think, a couple of weeks. October first, I believe, is the date. I think he's going to do well. Look, there's so many things. We could spend five podcasts talking about how great Coach Walsh is, Governor Walsh. He really has an ability to connect with the American people. He's very effective. I think when it comes to the people, Claire and Elise, from our parts of the country, the Midwest and the South, he's such a great messenger there, and he has an ability to really connect with voters in a way that you don't always see coming from a running bait. I think he's really excited to talk about his record as governor on the national stage. One of the things I love so much that he did, and he embraced when he became governor, is he provided free lunches for every student who couldn't afford lunch in the state of Minnesota. That is a progressive policy from a governor from more of a Midwest purplish state. He's not afraid to go after the issues that will help American family.

He's such a great partner for Vice President Harris He's a great vice presidential running maid. And boy, you compare him, you put him next to JD Vance. I'm sorry. There is just no comparison between these two and their priorities.

It's definitely normal versus weird. Yeah, correct. Relatable versus totally unrelatable. That's Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for that debate. I'm coming to cover it. I think it'll be absolutely terrific. Listen, this has been really, really good. I really appreciate both of you so much, Adrienne, having you here meant a lot because it's for a little bitty podcast like us to get somebody who's a big damn deal on the campaign. Oh, please. Hello. It's true.

I'm with two big wigs right here.

In case you don't know, Adrienne is a big damn deal on the campaign.

I second that. I second that.

Okay.

Then a big, big thanks to my co-host today, Elise Jordan. These two ladies are friends, and I'm proud to call them both friends of mine. Also a big deal who is highly respected. She is someone who proudly worked for normal Republicans and now realizes that her place is trying to help America figure out how the Republican Party collapsed on itself under the cult of personality of Donald Trump. I'm really proud to have both of you with me today. She'll be back with me again before election day, I hope, and I will look forward to that. Thank you to both.

Claire, thank you. Elise, thank you.

Thank you all.

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