Aloha and Namaste, everyone, and welcome to Impolitic with John Heilman, my podcast for Odyssey and Puck, coming at you every Wednesday and Friday with fresh, topical and candid conversations with people who roam the quarters of power and influence in America. From Washington to Wall Street, Hollywood, Silicon Valley and beyond. No modern media institution has occupied the nexus of politics and culture for longer or more influentially than the Daily show, and today we have with us one of TD's mainstays and rising stars, my buddy Jordan Klepper. Born, raised and educated in Kalamazoo, Michigan, Klepper cut his teeth at Chicago's storied and scary competitive improv scene as a performer at the legendary second city, moved to New York to join up with the equally renowned Upright Citizens Brigade, and then was hired by the man himself, Jon Stewart, at the Daily show back in 2014. The next year, Stewart fled the coop and stepped down as the host of TD's. While Klepper's presence on the show expanded in 2016, he started churning out the sly, deft and hilarious field pieces from Donald Trump rallies that became his signature franchise on the show. He also stepped in and hosted the show in the home stretch of that election year.

When new host Trevor Noah was sick seeing Jordan as a rising star, Comedy Central plucked him out of TD's and gave him his own late night show. It was called the opposition with Jordan Klepper in 2017 and 2018, and then a docuseries that Comedy Central had him do entitled simply Klepper in 2019. But Jordan felt the calling to return to his roots, and he rejoined the Daily show later that year and has been there ever since, periodically hosting the show and emerging as a potential replacement for Trevor Noah. When Trevor left the show in late 2022 and then earlier this year, out of the blue, with no warning, Jon Stewart shocked the world by announcing that he was returning as the Daily Show's host one night a week for this crucial election year. Stewart's announcement delighted fans and sent a jolt of electricity through the Daily show staff. But a lot of folks in the media world and elsewhere wondered whether the new arrangement, in which John would be behind the desk on Monday nights while other members of the show's I put quotes around this news team, finest news team at Comedy Central very much, including Jordan Klepper, handled hosting duties on a rotating basis the rest of the time.

As regular viewers of the show already know, it has in fact worked out extremely well. After having spent some years in limbo, the Daily show has its mojo back, thanks not just to Stewart's brilliant, agenda driving, sometimes controversial return, which, when it comes to his commentary on both Donald Trump and, importantly, Joe Biden, I think history will judge as having been both prescient and brave. But it's also due the excellence of the show at this moment, that is, to the stellar work of Jordan Klepper and his colleagues rotating behind that big desk. That topic is just one of the subjects that George and I chopped up when we sat down to tape this podcast. A conversation that is funny and full of wisdom, except when it comes to Chicago deep dish pizza, a topic on which Jon Stewart and I are fully aligned and totally correct. And Jordan, much as I love the guy, he's a fucking screw loose. That's a conclusion I am certain you'll reach on your own, along with a bunch of others, about the greatness of Jordan Klepper when you hear our conversation on this all new episode of In Politics.

John Heilman, coming at you in three, two, one.

Finally, it's time for Donald Trump to come out. And in case you weren't sure who he was, they put his name in big, bright lights like he was the world's most famous circuit elephant. That's right. Trump's gonna be president of Broadway. And once the cheers died down and the speaking began, Trump made some big promises. Four months from now, we will have an incredible victory, and we will begin the four greatest years in the history of our country. Oh, I don't know. Four years. What about 91 to 95? Wu Tang, Nirvana, unironic Fanny packs, Michael Jackson before it got too weird. You know, I'll put those four years against any in history.

You know, Jordan Klepper, as you will no doubt recall, that was you yourself on the Daily show live on the last night of the republican convention. They were in Milwaukee. You were in New York. And as I'm almost certain you can guess, the main reason that I wanted to play that particular clip is because I enjoyed the Wu Tang Nirvana fanny pack thing so much. I mean, you're a man after my own heart.

This is, you know, you need to get any Wu Tang reference you can into a piece of content, and I respect that. You left the top, though, where instead of a circus animal, I said the word circuit animal. And I remember in that moment, in that moment, thinking, why did I say circuit, not circus? And we rarely do retakes at the daily show. That was a live show. And I said it. I was like, well, there was laughter. Nobody will ever, ever realize that I fucked up that one word. And yet now, on a podcast, you replay that moment, and it is clear as day that that is a circuit. Animals. The wording that I use. So thank you for. Thank you for bringing me back to that one little one, that flow. I got to relive that flub. Thank you.

Well, it's worth actually talking about, because thank you for coming on today, and I haven't seen you in a while. How are you, man? Are you good?

I'm doing. I'm doing good. I feel like 100 history books have happened since I last talked to you.

Well, that's part of what there's so much to say about your weird position, your interesting weird position, straddling the line between comedy and journalism and whatever else it is you regard what you do as and defining it is very hard. But I would say it's weird enough for people who have a clear lane journalist. I cover this. I, you know, a beat reporter. I mean, if you're. If you're covering the Trump campaign or covering the. The Biden campaign. Oh, well, no longer the Biden campaign. Now we have a Harris campaign. That's pretty weird. But if it's for you, it must be even weirder. And it. Is it good fodder for comedy, or is the unusualness of it so surreal on its own that it makes it hard to parody?

I think it's. In terms of comedy, I think it's. It's great for comedy because there is so much change and uncertainty, and both sides are feeling up and down in the course of a week. I think change is always good for a comedy. It's fresh. It tills the field we've gone in the last couple months. We've had weird little breaks at the daily show, and we'll come back. And the amount of things that we've missed. We've had assassination attempts that we've missed. We've had candidates drop out. Joe Biden dropped out of the race while we were.

You guys were on hiatus? Yeah.

Yeah. I sent you some clips before we talked, and I was going through. I was like, oh, what are some of the things I covered? I'm like, oh, right. There was the show where Christy Noem executed a dog, and that story was eclipsed in the media by the RFK junior brain worm story. This has had so many wild characters and what felt like such a stagnant retreading of the story of Donald Trump versus Joe Biden in the last two months, has had such shifts and energy injected into that story that from a comedian or a satirist or a writer's perspective, at least there is some change in the story.

So here's the thing about that, the tie, that top clip, and about what's been going on with you, there's a first, it's worth saying, to give you a little absolution on the circuit versus circus thing, that was a live show. And you were like, you're right. You're writing your script for that thing, like, while Hulk Hogan's out there, you know, ripping off his shirt, you're like, you're doing, like, you know, on deadline comedy, which is not easy, that one.

And that speech was so fascinating. It's fun to listen to that, too, because that's the beginning of the Trump speech, where you hear how bored he is, the last vestiges of him being a changed man. That's what we were listening to, where he walked onto that stage thinking this was a coronation and that he was going to attempt to be this stoic, gracious character. And that speech turned, and we were writing that live, and the show was on. I think at 1130, at that time, when I went out to do the show, he was still speaking. We were like, no joke. We were commenting on the speech as it was happening. And we were writing up until we're like, we gotta go out. We started the show. We're like, that fucker's still talking. But what fun, like, doing a live show like that is so energetic. And I think emblematic of this strange time we are in is that we're doing live shows commenting on Donald Trump's speeches that he's still currently giving. And it's changing as we're talking.

Well, I gotta say, like, it's also the, the nature of that. A minute ago, I said, you know, you're, it's, you're, you're, you straddle a bunch of roles, right? And it's, there's sometimes where you're kind of faux journalist, but, you know, there's a journalistic element to the Daily show. Always has been a certain element, way of being journalistic. And then also the comedy, when it's still ongoing, it's like you're straddling the worlds of comedy and, like, sports casting, you know, where it's like, it's live happening, like, like the event is still happening. And it takes me back to, and I have no idea if we ever even talked about this. We might have at some point. But, you know, I was on the famous, at least in Colbert world. You know, I was on the night when he did the live broadcast in 2016. And, you know, I was sitting there on the set and was there when we had to say to that group at the Ed Sullivan theater, Donald Trump is just one Florida. He's likely the next president of the United States and have everything in the room go from, oh, this is all happy, peppy, joyful time to people, like, literally bursting into tears in the audience.

And the showrunner Chris Licht at the time, was like, you know, was looking at it on his phone and we were getting this live. And Steven, who had an hour broadcast built around Hillary Clinton winning, had to figure out how to make comedy, live comedy out of a totally unexpected outcome and a terror and one that no one in the audience wanted. Right. One of the more remarkable things I've ever seen it, some of it worked, some of it didn't. But the rawness of that, trying to make comedy out of a thing like that in that moment, Jeff Goldblum, I remember, was like, in tears backstage. Like people were like, losing their shit.

He's an emotional guy. I mean, that might have been just a cute affect.

Tall man's curse. We're all, we're all, we're all of us tall guys are all emo boys. Deep down.

I remember we did a live show that night as well. And an old friend from Chicago days, Keegan Michael Key, was our guest that night. Oh, my God. He came out to be sort of this joyful energy there, but he's waiting to go out, and we're all sitting in the edit bay watching the results come in and drinking some whiskey, talking about what is this future look like? It was such a wild, raw moment.

Well, we'll get to your Chicago thing in a second, but let me come back to the other big thing about you doing the live show and doing, being there, being the, covering the trump thing live. Like you're now in the big chair. Not every night. You know, it's this for people who I assume everyone in the world knows, you know, the Daily show has this, you know, with Jon Stewart back again. Another topic we'll come back to, but with Jon back for Monday nights and some other nights now and then. But you've got this rotating cast of the correspondence. Basically, the best news team at the day, the best news team at Comedy Central, as they say, in the, in the open. And how many, but without, with how many weeks is the rotation then? Like, you get on every four weeks.

Every, every, every three or four weeks. Because sometimes we switch it up. And the two of us, desi and I have done it a few times. Ronnie and I as well, but it's mostly like every three to four weeks, you'll be back in the chair, and then sort of, it's. This is, this is our news team, and we also have Troy and Josh and Grace, who expendit, expand that as well. But from the host standpoint, we know that our core group are gonna be hosting the show, and then when we're not, whatever, we can be a part of the show on the other people's weeks as well. So it's. To be honest, how is it fricking.

How are you. How are you liking. How are you liking being in the big chair? And how are you liking this rotating structure?

I love it. There's nothing better than hosting a late night show. I gotta tell you. For your ego, boy, does it feel great to host a late night show, but for your life, it can destroy you. And, and I will say in hosting the opposition beforehand, which was a dream job, and I. But it. It takes a toll on you. There's a reason people leave those. There's a reason John went away to a farm for a decade. And part of is that because you don't get to see your family, you're. You're constantly thinking about the show. It's. You're waking up in the morning, you're watching the news, prepping the show. You're working constantly, all day. And when you get home, you're working all through the night. And so from a lifestyle standpoint, it's so nice to get to do that job and dedicate a week to it and then take a breath, support the show in whatever way you can. And then, for me, selfishly, I still love being in the field, so I got to go do that. I get to talk to other people, create other things that come up back.

And go do stand up at various places. I know you've got a thriving stand up business going, I gotta say. I mean, I did a show for five. I did a five day a week show every day at 05:00 for almost three years. And it's a fucking grind, man. It's like, it's a. No one should ever complain. It's not like you're fucking working in a toll booth or breaking rocks in the hot sun or whatever. It's like it's a pleasure and a privilege to be allowed to use your brain and be on tv. But I was never into that degree of regimentation in my life. The notion of you, a 05:00 show on cable with breaking news every day, you know, you basically have, like, three meetings before the show. And the meetings, it's like 09:00, 12:00, 02:00, and you're basically like. You're like a man in the great flannel suit. You go to work every day at that hour of the morning. You go in, you do the thing, you do the next thing. I just. After three years that I was like, I don't want to do this. I'm happy to work really hard.

I mean, as you know from having been on the circus, we worked really hard. But the more unstructuredness of it was better for me. The chaos of that was better for me than every day, five days a week, doing the same set of meetings every day at the same time. And I totally understand why John was like, after having done the show for how many years before he left?

God, he was close to 15. I was gonna say seven. I think it is true. And you are completely, like, it is such a luxury and a privilege to get to do it, but it is so regimented, and to do it right, you have to live it and love it and your time off of that show, which is 637 o'clock, you're going home, and you're reading the book to interview the author the next day. You're watching what's happening on the news to help craft what the narrative is, uh, for the next day's shows. And it. You live and breathe it. And I do think any kind of art benefits from being able to have some structure and then to be able to have some chaos, to let in that fresh perspective, give yourself a little bit of a restart and go from it. And then, on a side note, what has been a really unexpected bonus is how lonely being a host of a show is. And I remember, for the opposition, like, man, when I was burned out, I could talk to Trevor, and I talked to Trevor about it, and John gave me wonderful notes going into it as well.

But mostly, you're like, it's tough being a boss of 100 plus people. It's tough having that job. It's tough having that weight on your shoulders. There's very few people who you can articulate that with. Now, with the Daily Show, I get to go in and talk to Desi about things that worked in an interview, things that didn't. I get to talk to John about little mechanical stuff that I really loved. I get to watch John not as just a boss and a mentor, but as a person who's functionally doing this job, who's emotionally reacting to clips, who's crafting a narrative, who's handling a difficult topic in the news in a way that he's either doubling down and going all in, or making his point on his way to make a sillier point. Like, I'm watching the structure and the blueprint of hosting the Daily show and then getting to decompress and analyze that with the people who get to do it, which has been really beneficial, I think, to all of us hosting and getting better at that job.

Um, I think, you know, I think the, the structure has been working great, and I like the variety. There's all, those are a lot of really talented people, um, not least yourself. I want to, I want to play, I want to get you to Chicago, though. And, um, you know, we somehow, we both were in Chicago for four days. I don't believe I even saw, even saw you passing in a crowd. Um, uh, for people who don't know, these guys do this, these live shows in Milwaukee, you guys are going to do the live show. And then because of the Trump assassination, the security got tight, so you ended up bailing on Milwaukee, but, and doing them live from New York. In Chicago, you guys were there at a theater. Where were you?

We were at the Athenaeum theater, which is. So, it's about a thousand seat theater in Lincoln park in Chicago, right? So we'd go in, we'd go in and we'd get some pieces, and then we'd do shows from the Athenaeum, right?

So we didn't cross paths there. But I kept thinking about, as I ran from, from various work, all the various things I was doing for work was I ran pequods and Wiener circle to get my three inch Trump footlong hot dog, and to Manny's a couple different times, and to the billy goat once. And I'm hitting all my old haunts, basically. I was like, I'm in Chicago, man. There's a bunch of places I gotta eat. I thought, well, Klepper, who spent a long time in Chicago, must have been having fun. And then I saw your first piece, the first day of the convention, I believe, with JB Pritzker, the billionaire governor of Illinois, who, by the way, also goes to the Wiener circle with some frequency. And it shows, let's say it shows on JB. Let's play that clip.

Beautiful Chicago, my old term, where I spent nearly a decade doing improv comedy and posing like a hip hop magician. But this isn't about me. It's about showing the exotic hotspot Chicago has to offer. And I've got a little help from a local billionaire for tour guide. I'm here with Governor Jbtainen Pritzker. We're gonna see that Chicago is more than just Wrigley Field and a bunch of drunk folks in bars, right? There's culture here. What are we gonna say?

We got blues, we got the lakefront, we got museums.

I love it.

We're a foodie town.

We are gonna get to that. I used to drink here. We gotta get a drink.

Let's go.

Yeah. They saved my old place.

It's perfect.

To get in the right mood, we need a local delicacy.

Malort is a Chicago special.

Mm hmm.

So if you come to Chicago, I mean, if you want to be like Chicagoans, you gotta have a Malort.

Yes, it's a. It's a lovely liqueur made here in Chicago. And it tastes like it was made here in Chicago. Oh, it's unleaded. I love it. Cheers.

Oh, that's some of the best malord I've ever had.

That's delicious. I have this aftertaste like I was sucking on the leg of a wet dog.

I'd like to hear a little bit more about what it tastes like to suck on the leg of a wet dog and how you would know what it tastes to suck on the leg of a wet dog.

I didn't know until that moment that I could visualize what that would taste like. Because it feels like it's wet, it's musky, it's hairy, it's meaty, it's attached to something alive. That is not you. That's what drinking a little bit of Malort feels like. Did you partake in Malort while you were there? Did you?

I don't think in my four years in Chicago I ever had Malort once. I mean, I was like, you know, I'm Heilman from Heilman's old style. So like, you know, I had. My family name was on the beer at half the bars in Chicago, so I always felt like it'd be weird to drink anything.

I didn't know you were that Heilman. You had that. You have that Heilman connection.

I do.

God bless. Ah, well, that's. Yeah, you you you can. You don't need to drink Malort then. Dear God, no. Malort is what makes me laugh about Malort is it's such a Chicago thing. But you can't find anybody in Chicago who defends drinking Malort. It's a thing they all do. Nobody likes it. I even we went to another bar, a favorite of mine called Guthrie's there.

Oh, yeah.

And we're drinking a Guthrie's, and they have a Malort spritz on the wall. And I asked the, the owner, I'm like, oh, is that good? He's like, no, it's shit. I. We're just, we try to figure out something to do with Malort, but it tastes like shit. You're like, oh, right, Malort tastes like shit. But it is a Chicago tradition. We brought a bunch of security from New York to Chicago, and they're a bunch of old cops, old New York cops. I went to a local bar after one of the shows, and I bought everybody around a Malort. And eight of the toughest guys in New York City shoot a shot, a malorthouse, and make the most disgusted faces and bitch and moan and whine about it. And these are men whose job it is to arrest people for defecating on Fifth Avenue, and they'd rather run back, run back to Manhattan than have another drink of a lord in Chicago.

What was it like? Was it fun to be there for? I mean, were you the only Daily show cast member who has that kind of Chicago improv or stand up or theatrical experience?

You'd be shocked at how little connection the other folks, the Daily show have to do outside of Grace. Grace Kulin Schmidt spent a little bit of time in the improv scene in Chicago, so we had a little bit of that connection there. But other folks, you know, come from the stand up world, right?

There's a moment when John jumped across his desk and wanted to get in a fight with the audience over deep dish pizza, which I thought it was like. It wasn't like that. I found it objectionable. Of course, anybody who loves New York pizza thinks Chicago deep dish pizza is disgusting. But. But it was weird because it came out of nowhere, and all of a sudden, John was like. He started yelling about it. He jumped over the desk, and you're like, wow, man, there's a lot of pent up energy here on this topic.

I don't want to take credit for this, but I will say, before that show, I was in the hall with John, and. And I told him that as a guy who lived in Chicago for a decade, a midwesterner, like the clip of Jon Stewart laying into deep dish pizza still goes around the Internet. Sure. I still get flack. I get flack from midwesterners about Jon Stewart's opinion on pizza. And I told Jon that. I was like, I hope you know your opinion about deep dish pizza is something I have to defend constantly. And he did come. He's like, I'm glad they still haven't got it over there 15 years from now. So, so it's still, it's still is palpable. Chicago is still like, how dare you? How dare you make fun of our pizza?

I know. Well, look, I gotta tell you, like, I defend Chicago on almost every front, and certainly I will fight you if you try to put ketchup on a hot dog. I'm with, I'm with the Chicagoans on that. I will fight. I will fight you. But Chicago pizza is like, john's right.

About this is, I love New York. I consider myself a New Yorker now, but, and I love New York pizza, but it's. I will defend New Yorkers and their gruffness. I will defend New Yorkers on their, their esoteria. I will defend New Yorkers on so many levels, and I will gladly proclaim New York as the home of some of the best pizza on the planet. But the idea that New York has the only good pizza that there is in America is such an absurd, elitist crock of shit that New Yorkers think, like, I've heard New Yorkers be like, oh, if you come to New York, just try pizza anywhere because it's so much better than the pizza you're gonna get. I'm like, you haven't been to the rest of America. You think that America hasn't figured out how to make fucking pizza? They figured it out. They figured out in every town in goddamn America, they figured it out. It ain't the most complicated thing. And it's good in New York. Good in New York. But guess what? There's good pizza all over this gosh darn country.

Well, listen, the best, listen, the best pizza in America is in Phoenix, Arizona.

I know you're gonna do that. I knew you were gonna pull some foodie bullshit on me.

I'm just telling you, it's like, too much cheese. And I'll tell you where, if you want to prove that not everyone knows how to make pizza, take a trip to St. Louis where they, where they make their pizza with this stuff called provel. I don't know if you've ever had that stuff, Clipper, but I mean, it is a combination of provolone, cheddar, and Swiss. I mean, but it's not really even cheese officially.

It's. It's.

They call it a white processed cheese product. And I think if you haven't had it, I will tell you now. It has the consistency of something that you use to grout your bathtub with. So listen, don't tell me everyone in America has figured out how to make great pizza. Jordan Klepper they haven't in a lot of places. Anyway, we're going to take a quick break here, then we're going to come back and talk about Jon Stewart and not about the pizza stuff. But it's been a kind of extraordinary thing, his return to the Daily show and obviously has changed a lot of things. We'll talk about that in a second. With Jordan Klepper here on imposing jahan, these two candidates, they are both similarly challenged, and it is not crazy to think that the oldest people in the history of the country to ever run for president might have some of these challenges. Now, Democrats will say that any criticism like this, especially if Biden is unfair, because you just don't know Biden like they know Biden. This is a man who is sharp.

Who is on top of his game, who knows what's going on. He's smart.

He's on his game.

I was in almost every meeting with the president, and the president was in front of and on top of it all.

Did anyone film that? Because if you're, if you're telling us behind the scenes he is sharp and full of energy and on top of it and really in control and leading, you should film that. That would be good to show to people. So I'll tell you, Jordan Klepper, when the announcement happened that John was coming back to the show early this year, that was February, I think was when he, 1st February 12 was his first show back. That was from the first, from the first monolog, the first a block of the show, of his return. There was like a little bit of people who are enormous fans of John's, enormous fans and have, you know, revered the work that he did in his 1715, whatever the number of years that he was at the Daily show, in the first, in that first run, there was like trepidation about him coming back. You know, I think there were a lot of people who were like, you know, the show hadn't found someone to replace Trevor. There had been various, we can talk about that. There have been various, you know, the kind of cycles of, you know, is it going to be hase Minaj?

Is it going to be Jordan Klepper? Who's it going to be? And then all of a sudden, oh, we'll put Jon back on one night a week. And it kind of felt for some people like, this might be a mistake, like going backwards, you know, and even some people who I know who worked on the show who was like, eh, I don't know. And I remember seeing that first, that first bit, that bit that we just, I just played part of and I was like, all of my anxiety about it went away and I thought, man, I'm so fucking glad John's back because I thought it was brilliant and needed to be said and funny and everything else. And every democrat I knew was so pissed. So pissed. Like, I mean, just, just give me your whole, the whole story of how you learned that John was coming back and what happened then.

There were a million possibilities as to where the Daily show would go. And it was anybody's guess. I learned minutes before the rest of the entire staff and everyone heard that Jon Stewart was coming back, which was minutes before Jon walked out on stage at the Daily show. We had, like, a big meeting to celebrate. We had just won an Emmy and there was a big gathering of the whole staff and they're like, we have a big announcement. We have a new setup and a new guest host. And John comes running out and everybody explodes. And they say, john's gonna do it once a week. You guys are gonna rotate. So it's gonna be our news team, is our team, John is gonna be our Mondays, and this is the team that we're gonna play with for the rest of the year. Frankly, there was so much excitement, relief, all sorts of things in that building. And trust me, it was a complicated year and a half. I think, like, you know, I'm surrounded by a lot of people who would have been great in that role. We all felt like we were auditioning for that role and, you know, people wanted that role.

Some people didn't want that role. Some people were told other people are gonna get that role. We could sort of envisioned a lot of different futures and there's a lot of egos in that room. But when you point to someone like Jon Stewart as somebody who got hired by him and has always looked up to him, I think I reflected the majority opinion in that room was like, we are so glad that John is back. I can't wait to hear what he has to say. And I remember the first big meeting we had when John talked about the stuff he wanted to talk about. And it was, it was such a relief to hear an articulation of point of view and intention that I hadn't heard in a year. And as fun as it was to have such a rotating guests come in and out, and I wasn't there for all of them. Far from it. But the Daily show had gotten really good at figuring out how to make this vehicle run with a bunch of different voices, that it was so nice to have John come in and clarify where he saw the show and where he wanted to take it as a team.

And when he articulated his frustration with this election, as he put it, like, if Trump is this existential threat and the Democrats are putting up this other person who squints when he walks outside, like, we need to be able to call that bullshit out. And it felt like at that time, everybody was so afraid to call out the giant elephant in the room that the emperor has no clothes, that the Democrats kept pushing this narrative that Joe is strong and don't criticize Joe Biden. And John said to us, it's like, it's on him to communicate that it's not on us to defend something. Our job here is to call bullshit where we see bullshit. We're not some arm of a political party. We're calling the bullshit out there. If they need to make the case like that, they're going that this person should be in charge of the free world, then they need to make that fucking case. So let's not shy away from it. Let's articulate it. And I think that first show did exactly that. And I, I thought it was both funny, and it pissed me off to see how Democrats got so butthurt after that first show.

It does show you, like, it's like, you can't, you can't make fun of this thing. You can't call out that one thing. This is what you've, this is what you've been so pissed off about, the cultist personality around Donald Trump for the last six years that, that they put aside all common sense to just get behind this one idea of a person. And the Democrats are in a dangerous place right now if they're doing the exact same thing. And so I'm so glad that John stood up and was able to articulate that. To see the pushback on the left made us, made me think, like, well, you know what? Maybe we're, we're not so different as we thought we were. Perhaps we hold these hypocrisies and these blind spots that we've, we thought only existed on one side. And I think in time, it did show you, like, yeah, people kind of caught up to that narrative, at least on the left and around on Biden again. And I think also if you watch that whole thing as, as you did, like, the left got so angry, and I don't think they truly watched it all.

John wasn't making false equivocations. He was pointing out things that everyone was talking about. Everyone I talked to about the situation was talking about this. And Jon was talking about the dangers that Donald Trump posed as well. And I thought he articulated that in a funny Jon Stewart way that did, for me, removed any doubts I had that John should be back there articulating what is happening in this time we're in.

It's funny because, of course, you know, John has this reputation for being, I would say, certainly on the right and more broadly, there's this Jon Stewart, liberal comedian. And I've always thought of Jon as being an equal opportunity bullshit caller. And I think there's an enormous value for that in both journalism and comedy and whatever the space is between those two things, the reality. And I sometimes thought of, you know, when people would ask me, were you a partisan? I'm like, I'm really not. I think, you know, we should call bullshit on the lies that we hear, the hypocrisies that we see when Donald Trump's in office, there's just more bullshit coming from that side. But show me a Democrat who's a liar, a fraud, a hypocrite, you know, I'm. I'll call him out. It's just right now we're living with the, like, one of the greatest liars in the history of the world in the White House when Trump was presidente. And so, yeah, at this moment, you're going to think I'm a partisan Democrat. But, I mean, you know, when Joe Biden gets back in office, you know, it would be interesting if Trump hadn't stayed on the national scene and all we would have done is cover Biden as president in the normal way.

Again, Trump kept, you know, kept. As long as the guy stays in the picture, you kind of have to just recognize he's, you know, an outsized purveyor of bullshit. Did you ever think that John would come back?

No. No. I, at that point, I thought, you know, in retrospect, perhaps I should have the year and a half before that with the Daily show, there were so many articles written about what was going to happen. And again, I had, let's be honest.

It was a mess. Can we say it was a mess? It was kind of a mess. It looked like a mess from the outside. I mean, it didn't, it didn't help the show to be. To be in that place where no one knew what the fuck was going on with it. Like, we know television is about consistency and repetition and having, like, a clear sense. This is Trevor's show. This is John show. This is now it's John and the Daily show comedy that the team, then the news team's show. But at least we know what it is. Being in limbo for a year and a half is, like, not good for the show. Limbo.

I mean, I think the benefits that I see from that year can be seen in the way the show exists now in so many ways. What I like about it now is that John gets to do, essentially, essays on Monday, which are things that can sort of. They can be responsive to what happened the day before, but oftentimes they're a little bit more classic Jon Stewart like, big a block pieces that can kind of make the large daily show argument at the top of the week. And then you get to have rotating voices that still speak from the point of view of the Daily show. But we have different interests. I have different interests than desi. I also am responding now more to news of the day than the larger pieces as well. And frankly, that is something that we kind of learned how to do over the year and a half with rotating hosts and trying to figure out what can this show do? I think it has given more diversity and variety to how the Daily show is consumed and what the Daily show can say over a four day period that we kind of had to learn through going through this very strange phase.

And that phase, as odd as it was, perhaps from the outside, like internally, it sharpened the skill set and the machine of the Daily show in such surprising ways. And I have such love for the showrunners and the writers in those rooms that are able to create these shows with different voices and different captains. And now we kind of bring that and are like, all right, now we know what we're going to use, how nimble we got, but hopefully we have a more clarified voice, and hopefully our audience is still with us to be able to see how we can use that voice. So I'm seeing the positive in it. But it was a chaotic year.

Well, look, in that period of time when there was a lot of discussion about who would succeed Trevor in the chair, because you and I are friends, people would say, well, who do you want to see? I'd say, well, I know Jordan really well, and that's why I'm for Roy Wood. Like, I. You know, I. I mean, like, I. You know, I mean, I know.

Yeah, I mean, you were pretty clear about that. I was very clear. He's a good choice. He's a very good choice.

I was the team captain on Team Roy Wood. I was like, clever. Are you fucking crazy? So here's the thing. So, John, you know, it's funny that. So there's that thing happened, right? And then, you know, the. That the, it's February, and, you know, John went off into other things, the Trump trial and, you know, whatever. And then we got to the debate, and you guys did a live, he did a live episode the night of the debate, you know, where he talked about how bad both Trump and Biden were, but he focused on Biden. And then, you know, Biden was trying to prove to the world that he should still be stay in the race. And he did that interview with George Stephanopoulos. And on July 8, John did, was back on that Monday night and did a bit that involved not just John doing, taking on Biden again, and the obviousness of the fact that Biden had to bow out in his view, but also Biden's statement that the only way he was going to get out was if the Lord Almighty came down and told him to get out. And Jon brought in the rest of the news team for that segment.

So let's play it for more. We go to Biden headquarters with Desi Lydic.

Desi, how are you?

Good to see you, Desi. So obviously, this story is dominating the news cycle. Desi, what's the latest?

Well, John, like a pressure cooker turned on, the pressure is on. Biden told George Stephanopoulos that unless the Lord almighty himself comes down, he's not.

Getting out of the race.

And you'll never believe this, but I have a very special someone right here. Wow. It's.

Oh. Oh. Oh, God, that's. Oh, boy.

It's me, John. I am the Lord thy God, creator of the universe, co star of the Sistine Chapel, author of the New York bestseller the Bible. And I have a message for the president. As Corinthian says, to everything, there is a season turn and turn.

Jordan or Gandalf or whoever you are, I see what you guys are doing. What?

What? No, no. It's a gun. The gunman.

Biden is not gonna fall for this.

Have you seen him lately? No. There's a decent chance, John.

So, of course, Jordan Klepper there in a. I look like a bag of cotton balls that exploded on your face.

There's not a lot of time to put costumes together. You know, you have an idea, and it's got to go on tv in a few hours.

Did I. Am I right that you got to say, I'm sure this was the first time in your crew when you're able to. When your script has called for I am the Lord your God.

I put it in there. I constantly put it in there. And I know you say that to.

Your kids all the time, but, you.

Know, I just want people to know there's a pecking order. So when on my host weeks, that's how I enter into the. The morning meetings, I say, I am the Lord your God. Let's see what news stories we want to cover.

That was fun. And Desi Lydic is really great.

Desi is awesome. I think she doesn't get nearly enough credit. She is able to play so many different tones and comedic styles. She's the best actor out of any of us up there. She's the only one who actually has legitimate gravitas. And I think her host weeks have such clear perspective and point of view, and I think there's, you see that I've gotten a chance to actually, you know, be in these rooms with all these other hosts and see what they bring. And when you are hosting the show, you curate the stories. You have things you want to say, a point of view you want to get across. And I think you see Desi come in there and. And she knocks it out of the park, unlike somebody like Ronnie Chang, who fucking shits the bed every time. So, you know, you're going to have. You're going to have your pros, and you're going to have your Ronnie Chang's.

Desi did a bit after Trump did that. That press conference where he was trying to be talking about the economy, and he took out the little tiny tic tac box thing, and he said, you know, this is what's happened to Tic Tac center Biden. It was like he gone and he was trying to make some point about inflation. Her riff on that, her bit about that was what was all time great. It was so hilarious. She's like, that's not inflation. That's just a thing that comes in a smaller size. I don't know. This cracked me up. I mean, I think the news team's really great. All of respect to the great Ryan Chang and everybody else who works on the show right now, everybody's really crushing it. Does it feel like you guys are firing all cylinders and that, you know, that the. That this thing now, this new totally, in order to accommodate John, you made up, there's a new. This new structure. The structure is improvised in the sense that if it wasn't for John coming back, it wouldn't have been, you wouldn't have done it this way. But as you said, there are things that have come out of that that are strong.

Do you feel now that after these number of months from February to now, September, that this has cohered to the point where, like, hey, we got, you know, x number of weeks left, election day, it's 60 some odd days, and we are now firing on all cylinders?

I mean, I do. I think what, I think what sets the Daily show apart? I mean, the show's been around for 20 plus years. That clip that you just listened to, I think when, when Jon Stewart left, people would often lament, they'd craft this Daily show in their mind of a super serious Jon Stewart getting up on a pedestal, telling you how it is. And that's part of the Daily show. But the Daily show is also silly and playful and a team of comedians blowing stories out of the water with these chats and these bigger, fun pieces. And it's an ensemble show. And I think that is always such a fun way of attacking satire. And so even that chat we just listened to, which continues on and we all come out dressed as different gods and playing, is so freaking fun that it feels like high school theater camp. And, and at its best, the Daily show can do that where it can have an act that makes cogent, thoughtful points and then has a fun theater school romp to end it. And we are in that place right now where, you know, we, we joke, but we, we really do love each other.

They, there's, there's not a lot of ego at the Daily show. We've, we've been there. We've all had to do a bunch of different roles. We host, we correspond it, we go live lives outside of it as well. We write, we all come back together. And, and when we're all in the same room getting to do a show like that, like, we were, we were in Chicago, we did a live show we call a whip chat, where we're all in there and we're dressed in funny costumes. We're doing fun, quick little bits. It's fun. I'm an improv dude. I love being with a team who can play around and find humor. And it does feel like the Daily Show's clicking right now with that sensibility.

So you're like, you came to the Daily show in 2014, right? John hired you in 2014?

Yeah, I think so.

And you did the 20. He didn't do the 2016 election, he basically hired you and then took a powder essentially as having.

Yeah, I got, basically, I got like a year and a half with him. And then he, Trevor came in like before the Trump election.

Right. So this is, you're doing 1620. This is your third presidential election at the Daily show. You went off after, left the Daily show for a while and did the opposition and did, and did Klepper. I know that sounds like just masturbated, but I mean, was it docuseries called Klepper?

But it was also, I mean, as any docuseries is, it's also masturbatory. So you're right on both counts.

Well, I wasn't going to say that out loud, but I'm glad you did. And so you've been through these, this is the third one. And you'd haven't done a presidential election with John basically, even though he was the one who hired you. And you, on a previous visit to this podcast, I remember asking you who your heroes were in comedy and we had a long discussion of that. Anybody who wants to hear it can go back and find that episode from a couple years ago. But John was on that list. So I asked you about this last few months and I want to play one. This is a relatively long clip, but this is a clip of John on July 29, which is basically after you guys had been away for a bit. And then you came back and the nominee of the Democratic Party has stepped down. And John was trying to recap all of that. And you cited this as a particular distillation of the genius of John. And I want to talk about why on the other side, but let's play that first. So much has happened in that week. In fact, I believe perhaps it's best to describe what's happened through a short one man black box play.

One that.

I truly hope will be Tony elgible. Can I get a little, give me a little like shtetl music?

Oh.

Oh. I am a Democrat. So sad. So cold, so hungry. The world is dark. The world and the future. She is bleak.

The president's ditch has gotten even deeper.

There's no path to victory.

The worst nightmare kind of scenario.

It's a doom loop. We are trapped in a doom loop. That's the worst kind of loop. Why could it have been one of those loops made of fruit? But alas, my bowl is empty. Condemned to a life of misery and minority status in key subcommittees. Oh, nothing will ever change our sad fate. Breaking news. President Biden dropping out of the 2024 race, say that again. But who will guide us out of the darkness? Who will take us there to the promised land? I'm coming home I want the world to love it. I feel alive. That's the worst kind of loop, is the part that gets you in there. That's the worst kind of loop. What about the ones with free? My bowl is empty. So you said the thing when you described why this was so great. You said this thing about John being this thing of goofball speedball. Talk to why. I mean, look, I think he's hilarious, but that does distill a certain thing about John that you love. What is that thing?

I think everyone knows how smart Jon Stewart is, and I've said it many times before, he's one of the most impressive people I've met. He's insightful, he's thoughtful, he cares. And what people tend to remember is his smart distillation of the political arena. But John is smart, and we know this. But you should also know that John is dumb, too. And I think that's what's so fun. And I think people forget that he's a goofball. He's also a vaudeville comedian. At times. He's borscht Beltye. He loves doing a new Jersey accent, and he loves to sometimes get off of that high horse that I think political satire, like the worst parts of the evolution of political satire, took the really heavy, cogent points of Jon Stewart and evolved that to just smart editorials with little jokes. But they forget that John is a full bodied comedian who loves to be silly and fun. And I think you're right. You pointed out the funniest part of that whole thing, that, that from doom loop. Froot loop. That's a dumb joke. That's a dumb joke. But it's, it's such, just a silly, it's somebody who just is giggling at the funniness of, of words and silliness there.

And what, what that piece was doing was, I remember he walked in and he was like, oh, I want to do a fun little reenactment thing, that if you're too high, if you're on your high horse too much, you don't get to do the fun, silly comedy bits. And John still, he still loves that. And as I've always loved that about him, and I think when people would talk to me, people talk to me about what they love about Jon Stewart. That's one of the things you get when you work at the show for a decade, is that people tell you how they feel about it. And people talk about all of those points, but they often leave out what is so playful about John. And I think that's really important. And as a, as somebody who's now gotten to host that show and something, I talk with Desi about a lot and Ronnie and Costa. But in watching that first night back, I knew all these things, but I never got to watch John as beyond a mentor, but also as somebody who's doing a job that I was literally going to do the next day.

I remember that Monday night was like, well, I'm in that chair fucking tomorrow. Shit. And what I got to watch is the mechanics of hosting and what John does better than anybody else. And what I'm trying to do more of now as a host is he emotes through all of it. He is the avatar for how you watch the news or want to watch the news. And most of his jokes are not necessarily punchline setup jokes. They are emotion. They are responses. And I think theyre a feeling. And thats what good satire can do, is it takes you along with the feeling of the moment, and you do that through silliness, through emotions, through fear, anger, outrage, but also through goofball speedballs. And thats what I think has always been there with Jon Stewart as a host. I watch and I like remember when you're doing this thing called satire, like emoting and being present and feeling through the moments is what the audience is asking from you.

I'll take a break real quick. We'll come back and listen to some classic klepper right after this.

The last three weeks have been some of the most eventful in american political history. So I went to Harrisburg, PA, to see how the MAGA world is reflecting on these serious times. First, I want to know how they're coping with the loss of their favorite punching bat. I've seen you many, many times here. What number rally are we at?

82.

Are you sad about the Joe Biden chant being retired?

I'm sad because of all I've invested in all this antivin gear.

How much? Let's go. Branded anti Joe Biden merch. Did you have?

Thousands of dollars.

Is that right? Wow.

I buy it at the let's go Brandon store in Toms River, New Jersey.

Do they have to rename that?

I think they're gonna have to rename it.

How about one more for old times sake?

Joe and the hoe.

And now the name calling of vice President Harris begins. If they could only decide how to mispronounce that name.

I'm surprised Kamala even has a chance.

No one likes Kamala.

They want to Carmela in. And that's where I don't like to hear about the Kamala thing.

Why do you say her name like that? How do you say it?

Kamala.

No, it's Kamala.

Kamala. Kamala.

Kamala. Kamala. Kamala. There you go. I appreciate that you're trying to say the name correctly.

Yes, I actually am not, but I.

Inadvertently, you know, how would you want to say it? Kamala.

It's the way bush used to say Saddam Hussein. Saddam.

Did you workshopping elevating Kamala to Saddam Hussein levels.

Kamala Harris is a bigger threat, more.

Anti american than Saddam Hussein.

Yes. The most anti american candidate for president we've ever had.

I gotta tell you, if I ran into you three weeks ago, you might have said that about Joe Biden.

That's right. Yeah. You know, that's a, that's, that's a. I say klepper. Classic. That is classic klepper in the sense it's a field thing. You're at a Trump rally and it's just, you know, giving everybody enough rope to hang themselves. You know, that's that they just do, it's like if you let, if you let them go long enough, you get them to just walk right into the. You don't have to set a trap for them. You just have to, like, just stay.

Logical, give enough space to let them tell you who they are.

Do you still have fun doing that?

I do. I. You know, you've been doing it since.

You did it in 16, right?

I did it. I didn't. I mean, yeah, I've been doing it for you.

Really? For a decade now, right?

Yeah. I mean, I did. I. In this world, I mean, coming from the improv world, I even did a show 20 years ago for the Big ten Network where I was on the street talking to people about college football. So, like, being on the road talking to people I've been doing for quite some time. But for campaigns, Trump, mega rallies, it's going on a decade, which is bonkers to say. I. I do love talking to people. Like, don't get me wrong, it can get dark out there and it can get frustrating. It can feel like you're beating your head against the wall. But I am inherently curious about these things. That example was like, stuff had happened. There was an assassination. Kamala was in. I believe JD Vance had been nominated. So frankly, like, I want to. What are people talking about? I want to talk to people about it. And I'm no longer angry at these rallies. It's a, that's a mistake to walk into these things, be being pissed and trying to get your political agenda across. It's more like, look, I'm going to have some fun. I'm going to find some comedy and find some context.

But I want to know how people articulate JD Vance, that example of how people said Kamala's name and Edward is his name, who has been to 82 rallies. And I run into all the time, like, what I love about Edward is like, Edward's gonna tell me, like, he tells you the game. He's like, no, I'm, I'm trying to say it like Bush said Saddam Hussein because I'm trying to belittle her. It's like, thank you. All right. Now that's the real dope. I don't, I don't need, I don't need to, I don't need to steal my parents New York Times subscription to figure out why people are saying it. Edward can tell me. All I got to do is go to Harrisburg.

Well, on some level, though, these, going to these rallies, I, as you know, I like talking to people, too. And we did some of this when we had you on the circus and, you know, but really, I guess my question is, when I asked, doesn't it get old, you know, how these people are going to respond? It's new facts on the ground. But you kind of can predict what this, these, I'm asking, I put a question mark at the end of this. Can it, is it, is it, do you ever encounter a thing that surprises you at this point, given the kind of homogeneity of that, of that universe?

Not, I always have a sense of where it's going. The specifics are always surprising as to how far it's gone or the way it's metastasized. I think for me, it becomes partially like, let's check in and see if it's as far as we thought it would be back in New York. And then secondarily also it becomes about, like, a comedy challenge of, like, what are the ways in which I can find, can find the hypocrisy in this and play within it. I mean, I will say what, what I really appreciate this, this job that I have right now is if that's all I was doing, I, that would be a lot, right? The fact that I can go out there and do that and have these conversations with people and then go back to the desk and try to create an argument or be responsive to news media and then perhaps do a longer special where I can actually have longer conversations and bounce off of it. Like, I feel very, very fortunate in that sense. And that, like, it is, it is a tool. It is an element of the performance of being a satirist with the, the Daily show, that I get to still do that, but that I'm not just only doing that anymore is, I think, what probably keeps me ultimately sane.

So in that same piece where you went out, where all that stuff had happened that you just listed, one of the things, as you mentioned, was that there had been. Trump had been shot and grazed, but shot at and shot, and the attempt to murder him had taken place. And you talked to people about that. I want to just hear what they had to say about it. We know that the Trump conspiracies have flourished, but you were very early in picking up beginnings of that. So let's. Let's play that sound.

The rally was just three weeks after a truly tragic day in us politics. The official story was that the assassination attempt was committed by a disturbed young man who was a registered Republican. But this crowd isn't always into official stories. I think people on both sides can agree that was a horrific moment in our history. It was. Looking back on it, do you believe the things you hear?

Oh, no, I don't.

I believe it's an inside job. The shooting was an inside job.

A lot of things aren't adding up. It's very strange. I think that was a planned job. Anybody with any common sense knows that was a planned job.

Planned by who?

The Dems?

The left's the deep state.

Obama is involved in this.

You think Obama set up the assassination attempt?

I think that he surely knew about it.

Oh, it's the government, for sure. It's government.

I think so.

You think they would go through all of this? I mean, wouldn't they really wanted to take out Trump? Wouldn't they just poison the Big Mac? I don't know. It's the dance, the FBI, the special service. Does it surprise you to hear that it was a disgruntled white guy, republican gun nut? No, because you know what? We'll never know why he was picked. It's kind of the perfect cover.

Exactly. A number of things to say about that. One, of course, is that the woman who says special service, I really enjoy that. Special forces with Secret Service. I also really enjoy the Obama must have done it thing. The craziest thing is that Trump was literally, I think, about a week ago, Trump suggested that it was possible that Mark Elias, the democratic election lawyer and Andrew Weissman, with whom we both appeared on the circus, were somehow behind it because they were. This kid apparently now has, has got some lawyers, and he was like, I don't know. I mean, I can't really say. All I know is there's these lawyers and there's Mark Elias, there's Andrew Weissman. I. Who can say they might be connected. I was like, I can't fucking believe it. Are they crazier now than they were in 2016? Have you seen a trajectory towards the MAGA rallies getting crazier, more conspiratorial? Or is it basically just been steady state?

I would say it's closer to steady state. It's just there's the, the idea that more new information will come in and affect it at all. It's. They're just more hardened and locked. Locked and loaded. The assassination thing has been surprising to me, however, because I do think, you know, there is no clear, there is no clear narrative for them to articulate right now. So it is sort of just a grab bag of, like, it's Obama, it's the deep state. It's all of that. In some ways, that was a surprise where it's like, oh, you guys haven't figured this out. You haven't had your meetings yet to articulate what it is. Trump hasn't given you the fun thing because this seems like it would be the thing that it would be the only thing you talked about. And that's what I was like, it's three weeks later and nobody's, nobody's talking about. They're selling t shirts. And that's what's, that's what sort of boggles my mind. I came home and my wife, you know, she asked, she was like, oh, is everybody up in arms and talking about the assassination? Three weeks after the assassination, I was like, no, they're not talking about it.

You know what it is? It's a fucking t shirt. They got pictures of Trump after the assassination on a t shirt. They got the merch, and now they moved on. Like, that's what the assassination attempt was.

So you broke free and just decided, you know, Maga rallies, as rich as they are as a vein of material, you got someone over there at Comedy Central that burgeoning, I was going to say some kind of burgeoning cash machine. But we both know how linear cable is doing these days. So somehow, before the money runs out, given how much they've had to pay John to come back to do one night a week, you somehow managed around that time to get someone to fly you to Estonia to do a classic klepper, but classic Klepper international edition. Just tell me, what was it that, but I've seen the whole piece, so I know the answer to this question a little bit. But, like, just set this up here. Like, why did you decide to go abroad? Why did you decide to go to Estonia? Why? Why? Why for this story?

Well, I think we, we wanted to do a special, and something we noticed is, is this the pervasiveness of russian disinformation and misinformation out on the trail? And that was a narrative that we started covering and has been covered about how, like, you know, what became, like, at one point, just using Putin as a counterpoint to Biden became actual fandom of Putin. So let's see if we can kind of, you know, delve a little bit deeper into this. And that sort of led us into the rights Russia tilt and their obsession with Vladimir Putin, where that kind of came from. And let us kind of examine some of this misinformation and some of the purveyors of it. And quite frankly, we felt like, let's see some outside perspective. Let's go as close to Russia as we can legally get. And Comedy Central sent us to Estonia, which is seeing the effects of russian misinformation up close and what it actually means to people who are preparing to go to war. And I think that was, for us, something as callist storytellers in this sense, like, you know, it's one thing to go to these Trump rallies and point to the misinformation and the bullshit that is out there.

And there's such a disconnect from, like, how this actually affects real people and people who are actually confronting this day to day. And to hear people talk about funding ukrainian soldiers and what's happening at that war in Pennsylvania. ROSs it was like, let's go to fucking Estonia, where there are people who are going to put their lives on the line to fight a war that's being joked about halfway across the globe, and let's talk to them about it. And so that was sort of our intent in going to Estonia and talking to the prime minister and talking to people who were going to see battles like misinformation has a cost. And these, these little, these arguments and this bullshit that we stir up in these fields in Pennsylvania. There's actual global repercussions to all of this bullshit. And maybe we can find a way to contextualize it and show it.

You know, first of all, I would say that I'm here in Maine right now. You were just in Maine. I've got, as I've said a number of times, to my east, the Atlantic Ocean and to my west, somewhere in the woods, Tucker Carlson. And when I saw Tucker go to Hungary to give that blowjob he gave to Victor Orban, I couldn't help but think he's in your piece. I couldn't help but think that part of what inspired you was, was Tucker going to, you know, to go to Orban's Hungary and walk around and talk about, oh, they have plenty of bread here. You know, everything's, everybody makes it seem like it's bad over here. In fact, this place is great. That was part of the inspiration, I assume.

Yeah, well, I mean, he did that sit down with Orban, but he did that with Putin. He did that Moscow.

Oh, that's right. He did that in Russia with, with the, with the bread.

Yeah, he did the bread thing. And that, and that was, it literally was an inspiration. We were talking to people and it was joked. It was talked about. It had a media cycle where they're like, you know, Tucker Carlson's making this look like this is what Moscow is like, and it's not so bad, but it's having an effect. Anybody we referenced Moscow and Russia to in the fields of Pennsylvania and elsewhere, they referenced that. That was their point of view. It's like, yes, he has colored the image of this. And so let's, let's try to show that it ain't all just fancy croissants.

And so in this piece, you got, you did an interview with Julia Yaffe, my colleague at Puck, which is great. There's an interview in there with, I am the Boris with Bolton, with Josh. John Bolton. Bolton, who does say, hey, if you wanted to see if you want to really get inside these issues, go someplace that would be on the front lines of a war with Russia if we abandoned NATO. And he said, and you're like, hey, I'm going to Estonia. You saw Kayakalis, who, the former prime minister who literally just left office last month or in July. I interviewed that woman for the circus, and I got to say was super impressive. She thought you were a little weird. I could see in that interview, did you not have like, well, she didn't get some of your jokes, let's put it that way. You made a joke about New York traffic, and she kind of didn't. She was having a hard time tracking it.

That's not how I read it, not how I read it. Not how I read it.

Look at the special. You'll see. She thought there was something wrong with. With you. Anyway, in the special, you go from that interview, and then you head off into the woods to talk to some estonian soldiers who are training to fight in what they think is perhaps an imminent war with Russia if the US decides to withdraw from NATO. So let's listen to that.

Turns out we're so close that estonian civilians are training in the woods in case of a russian invasion. These are our guys.

Okay?

If Russia were to attack along with you guys. I gotta be honest, I'm not really the fighting kind. This is the Estonian Defense League. They're an all volunteer army of about 30,000 regular Estonians. What do you do? What's your day job? I'm a choir conductor. Studying for that. You were a choir conductor? I was studying for it, yeah. How do you go from studying to be a choir conductor to in the middle of the estonian woods holding an ar of some sort? The russian Ukraine war changed everything for us. When Americans gather like this, they're usually training to keep a barber shop open during COVID And you guys are training to. To repel Russians, right? Simple. We don't have any illusions.

Even today, when we see what's happening in Ukraine, we understand not only Estonians has to stop Putin.

And there's a reason these soldiers are concerned. I got your six. Or whatever it is in metric twelve. Russia brutally occupied Estonia until 1991. So while maga world turns a blind eye to Putin's plan to expand Russia, people who lived under that occupation have a different view of it. Everybody is for peace. But we understand what peace under soviet or russian occupation means.

You had mass atrocities, mass deportations.

My own mother was deported to Siberia as a six month old baby. There were mass killings. There were suppressing our culture, trying to erase our language.

This is what peace under occupation means.

That doesn't mean that the human suffering was.

Stop.

If only we could get that information to go viral on truth social.

So that was Kaia kalas right there at the end of that sound. And I gotta say, it looked like you had a little crush on her there, Jordan.

What? No. I'm a professional. I'm a satirist, all right?

The look on your face, and even in the cutaways, you're so starstruck by her. Incredible.

I could sit. I sit with world leaders all the time. You know, you can't impress me. Am a stoic. I have. I have a stone face. I'm not impressed by anybody.

I remember that time you did a joint interview with Anwar Sadat and Ed Amin. It was an incredible interview. Like, one of my favorite things.

People don't bring that up nearly enough.

Did you enjoy, is that, like, a thing that clepper classic is going to do more of, if you can, more abroad?

Or I think, you know, I get to do a couple specials, or I've gotten to do and have a few coming up as well each year where we get to dive into a topic, and I love it. I went to Hungary a year or two ago to look at what was happening over there and compare it to the american system. I think I feel very fortunate to be a comedian who actually gets to go to places like Estonia to try to find comedy and satire. It's, oddly enough, as. As weird a place as any. CNN ain't sending me there. MSNBC ain't sending me there. But Comedy Central is like, hey, why don't you go to Estonia and figure out if there's a. Something you can find some humor in? And that. That, to me, is, one, it's. It's fascinating, but two, it's. It's so nice. We have a unique audience at the Daily show who might not be up on the most recent estonian political stars.

Taking a guess, I think that's fair to say. Here's my wrap up lightning round questions. These, you can answer these in one sentence. I already asked you offline what other comedy you've seen recently. You're like, I don't see comedy.

I don't watch fucking comedy. I'm sorry, Hal, but I got nothing.

Okay, so here we go. These are. These are one sentence answers. Okay? And you actually, I think, know what some of these answers are, but go ahead. What have you been watching lately that you've enjoyed?

What if I watched. I watched Ren Faire and thought that was great.

You said the cool hand Luke made you weep on a plane.

That, too. And I watched cool hand Luke on a plane. And it made me cry? Yes. Why would you want it?

Why did it make you cry? No, I have. I was going to ask you. I have a standard list of questions, but I. You evaded the cool hand Luke weeping episode, and I wanted to get that on the record.

I wept at cool hand Luke planes, you know, they can make people feel emotional, and I think cool hand Luke, I hadn't seen in my adult life. And I think the, the existential dread and the. The utter inability to face authority figures who just impose their will on people because they're in a position of power to me was very moving. And those fucking eyes, man. Those fucking eyes make me weep.

I told you. This is like you talking about Clooney the other night on the Daily show where you're talking about how beautiful Clooney is.

I got a thing. I got a thing for classic, classic movie stars. They get me. Give me some Newman, some pit, and some Clooney. I can watch those all day.

I gotta say, you're an emo boy. As I said before, all tall guys, emo boys. What have you been listening to lately that you're liking?

I've been listening to the new Sturgill Simpson. Digging that. And the new vampire weekend album. I think it's frickin great. And then Kanto soundtrack, because I have a four year old at home.

If I played you this vampire weekend album with songs from this album with songs from all the other albums, could you tell them apart in a blind taste test?

You know what? I'm gonna say? Yes, because I don't think you have time on this show to do it.

That's right. I'm not gonna try that. What, do you reading lists lately? That's moved you.

I read the new Miranda July book all fours, which is fantastic. Right up my alley.

Because you're going through, as you put it in text, your perimenopausal polygamous phase. Is that what's going on?

It's. It's about a woman going through her perimenopausal, you know, affair polygamy phase of life.

But what you identified, I mean, what's.

It got me, man? I think she. She's super funny and insightful, and it's sort of a story of somebody a little bit around my age range dealing with life's big questions in a very funny, strange, awesome way. I love me some fiction as an escape. And I think she is great. I think Rachel Cusk is great. I think there's some really cool authors out there. Two thumbs up for all fours.

I gotta have a conversation with your wife when we get offline.

The other thing is, nobody will talk to me about this. I love Rachel Cusk. If anybody out there reads Rachel Tusk novels, come talk to me. I have no one to talk to. My wife is not interested in parametopausal fiction. I am. I'm here for it.

You've also been reading Kafka.

Yep.

For the. For the array of sunshine here in this dark and forbidding landscape that we inhabit.

You know what? I started reading before Biden dropped out and everything's felt so fucking crazy. And I bet you get this as well, where people are like, how do you make sense? And da da da. And I think there was an Atlantic article, this is as pretentious as we can get. But that pointed out the only way to read Kafka is to not try to make sense of it. And so I embraced the absurdity of some Kafka stories, and it actually feels soothing to me to hear of chaos and things that don't add up and let them just be. I think that, to me, is like a warm blanket.

I was gonna ask you for your one thing, that you is a sign of hope in this apocalyptic end times kind of thing. But as I go back and look at the first line of metamorphosis by Kafka, one of my favorite lines in literature. One morning when. Let's put Jordan in this. One morning when Jordan Klepper awoke from troubled dreams, he found himself transformed in his bed into a giant cockroach. I think of that as being that now, that is a ray of sunshine. That is a reason for. A cause for hope.

Yes. You know what? Because at some point, all we're like, why is this happening? What's going on? No. Sometimes you wake up and you're a fucking bug. Deal with it and live your life. You're a fucking bug. Don't try to make sense of it. You're a bug. Be the best bug you can be.

And with that, we'll say goodbye. You know, we know. We didn't even mention on this podcast.

What Coogan I got. That's a whole. That's a whole.

I know. It's a whole separate podcast. We got to do. We're going to do a limited series just on our mutual obsession with Steve Coogan. Jordan Klepper, you're a gentleman, a scholar, a genius, and a giant cockroach.

I'll take it all. Thank you, John.

In politic with John Heileman is a puck podcast in partnership with Odyssey. Thanks again to Jordan Klepper for coming on the pod and chopping things up. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow in politic with John Heileman and share us, rate us, review us nicely on the free odyssey app or wherever you happen to bask in the splendor of the podcast universe. I'm John Heiler, your cruise director and the chief political columnist for Puck, where you can read my writing every Sunday night, plus the work of all my terrific colleagues. By going to Puck news. Impolitic. That's Puck.net. ic and subscribing. Two of those colleagues from Puck. John Kelly and Ben Landy are the executive producers of this podcast. Lori Blackford is our senior executive booking producer. Allie Clancy is our executive assistant. JD Crowley and Jenna Weiss Berman are our indispensable overseers and Guardian angels at Odyssey. And the one and only Bob Tabador is the straw that stirs the drink flawlessly, producing, editing, mixing, and mastering the show. We'll see you next time, everyone. And as always, Alastair.