Previously on In the Dark.

I remember I opened a Humvee and I just see bodies stacked up, and I open another one, the same thing. I'm like, Shit.

.

What he noticed was gunshot. Most of them are a gunshot in the head or in the chest.

Shot, yes.

They got this They have different values than we do. They're more concerned about the living than those that have passed. They did not get the pictures.

Those pictures today have still not been seen.

After the Marines shot the people by the white car and went inside Saafah's house and Abdul Rahman's house and killed nearly everyone inside. They took a break and regrouped. Some of the Marines walked over to a nearby empty house and went up to the rooftop. They were up there for a while smoking cigarettes. Then they said they saw something suspicious in the courtyard down below. Exactly what that suspicious thing was is unclear. One Marine told investigators there was gunfire coming from a house down there. The others just described a man or men moving around outside near a house. Whatever it was, got the Marine's attention. And so three Marines, the squad leader, Sergeant Frank Wutterrich, his right-hand man, Corporal Hector Salinas, and the squad's gunner, Lance Corporal Justin Sheret, the one who sometimes wore the patch that said Punisher, all came down off the roof and went to the house to check it out. What these Marines did next is highly disputed. I spent years at this point reading and rereading their statements, thinking through what they claimed happened. Unlike the Marines, vague stories of what happened inside the other houses, their accounts of what went down inside this final house are incredibly specific, full of detail, and they provide a clear picture of what the Marines said happened.

So clear, you can see it all unfolding, almost like a movie. It goes like this. Wutter, Sheret, and Salinas went down to that courtyard and went inside a house there. They found women and children inside. The Marines asked where the men were, and according to the statements of two of the Marines, the women pointed to the house next door. Wutter and Sheret went over to that house to investigate. They went inside, and suddenly, they found themselves face to face with a man holding an AK-47 and pointing it right at them. Sherritt didn't hesitate. He aimed his machine gun at the man and tried to shoot, but his gun jammed. So Sherritt pulled out another weapon, a nine-millimetre pistol he'd borrowed earlier that day from the squad's medic, Brian Witt. Sherritt aimed the pistol at the man and shot him in the head. The fight wasn't over. Sherritt noticed another man, also armed with an AK. So Sherritt shot that man, too. Then Sherritt saw two more men in a corner moving toward their fallen comrades. Sherritt didn't want to take any chances. He thought the men might try to grab the AKs on the ground.

So Sherritt shot them, too. Sherritt told investigators that he shot until he ran out of ammo. And And he said that Wutterrich then entered the room and shot the men who were already lying on the ground. For the record, Wutterrich, in his only statement to investigators, only describes Sherritt shooting. He doesn't mention whether he shot or not. After all the shooting was over, four men were lying dead in the room. Each one of them had been shot in the head. The Marines ran out. The whole thing lasted less than three minutes. By some miracle, the insurgents hadn't managed to get off a single shot. Later that evening, Sherritt found Brian Witt and returned the 9 millimeter. He had made a comment when he come back saying something about he had popped his cherry And that was it. He said, I popped your nine mils cherry.

What did you think when he said that?

What did I think? I assumed it meant that he had fucking shot someone with it. Sheriff boasted to other guys about what happened inside that house. He told them how facing down the barrel of an AK-47 as his own weapon jammed, he whipped out that nine millimeter and shot all the men dead. He told one Marine, We killed them, Punisher style. Another Marine said, The way Sherritt described what happened, it sounded like Sherritt had John Wayne did. Even months later, when Sherritt was being interviewed by investigators, he bragged to them about all this. Our reporter, Parker, talked to one of the investigators, a man named Clyde Lagos. He was very proud of what he did. At least that was the impression I got from him. What gave you that impression? His back was straight. He sat up straight. He spoke clearly. He was forceful about what he did. Very like, Yeah, this is what it did. At first glance, the story seemed straightforward. The Marines had killed four men, men who the Marines claimed were all insurgents, men who appeared to have been trying to lure them to the house to ambush them. Nothing wrong with killing men like that.

Shooting insurgents who are trying to kill you was not only justifiable, it was literally the reason the Marines had been sent to Iraq to defeat the enemy. What happened in that final house was the thing you get awards for, not punishment. But as I read and reread these statements, I had some questions. For one thing, if there were four insurgents in that room waiting to ambush Marines, why did they only have two guns? Why didn't they come fully armed? I looked at a layout of the house, and the room where the insurgents supposedly were hiding out was the smallest room in the house. It only had one door. It seemed like a risky strategy for all four of them to hole up in there instead of spreading out tactically. How was it possible that the insurgents weren't able to get a single shot off? The investigator, Clyde Lagos, also wondered about that. When we asked, Well, what were the four men doing? Because it's like you had time to unsling a weapon that jammed, put it down, rack your nine, and those men just stood there, including the one that had the AK in the first place.

Then you shot them all. Like, holy crap. That's all I could think was, holy crap. And a last question. Why were all these men shot in the head. It seems like if someone is pointing a gun at you and you have one shot max before they kill you, it's incredibly risky to aim for their head. Like, what if they're moving? What if you miss? That's why people are trained to aim for the chest. Brian Witt, the squad medic, also found this odd. Because I always remember it being surreal that he did that. I was like, There's no way, man. Not in that situation because it's hard, man. Aiming with a pistol is very hard. Plus, someone like Sherritt would also to shoot for center mass, not the head, with a pistol. I just always thought the whole thing was like, fishy. This is Season 3 of In the Dark, an investigative podcast from The New Yorker. This season is about the killing of 24 men, women, and children by US Marines in Haditha, Iraq. It's a story not just about the killings themselves, but also about the failure of the US military to bring the men responsible for them to justice.

In this episode, we investigate what really happened at that final house. Episode 5, Four Brothers. If we get stuck in this elevator, I'm going to record it all. While I was in her biel with our producer, Samara, we went one day to meet with two women.

Hello. My name is Madalyn. Samara.

Nice to meet you. Their names are Najla Abdul-Ruzak Hamid and Ehab Ayad Turki. What was your name? Ehab.

Ehab.

So nice to meet you. Najma and Ehab had traveled from Haditha to Erbil to talk to us about what they'd witnessed on the day of the killings. Yeah, please sit down. We met up at the hotel where they were staying. It was called the Classy Hotel. We all sat down on couches in their room with our interpreter, Aya.

We wanted to start just by saying that we know it's not easy to talk about, and so we're really grateful to you for talking with us.

.

She said that she's doing this interview.

It's because so many people need to know the truth about what happened, to know their story and to know what they saw at that day.

Ehab is now 40. Najla is 54. It was clear that the two women are close. They sat right next to each other. Sometimes they even finished each other's sentences. We spent a long time talking about what happened on November 19th, 2005.. But first, Ehab and Najla told us what their lives had been like before that day. Najla grew up in Bagdad. She told us how she met Jamal, the man she would eventually marry. Jamal was from Haditha. He was a member of the Iraqi military, and he served with Najla's brother. One day, her brother brought Jamal home for a visit.

. He visited their house, and he saw her just for a glance. And he just asked her parents for her to marry him.

Wow.

After just seeing him- After just for a glance.

He was in love?

As soon as Najla started talking about her husband, her whole face brightened. She smiled and blushed.

What did he look like?

. He was handsome. She says he was handsome... Their relationship was so strong, and they were like friends, not only a man and a wife.

When they got married, Najl and Jamal moved to Haditha, into the house right next door to Jamal's parents. There was a wall between the houses, but the family tore it down so they could share the courtyard and go back and forth more easily. Najl quickly got to know Jamal's younger brothers. Their names were Chaseb, Marwan, and Khatan.

And what were your husband's brothers like?

She says she raised them. She basically raised them because when she moved in to Haditha, they were just kids. So they grew up with her, and they call her our second mom.

In 1991, Najla and Jamal had their first and only child, a boy. They named him Khalid. Khalid Jamal is an adult now. He's 32, and he also came to Erabile to talk to us.

..

He's thanking you for flying all the way from the US to just talk about his story with him.

For years, growing up, Khaled Jamal was the only kid in his family. He would go back and forth from his house to his relative's house next door. The way you described it was like every kid's dream, surrounded by loving parents, loving aunts and uncles, grandparents. As the only child, Khaled Jamal had all the attention in the world.

. Their house was so big, and he was the only child living in this house, so he had his freedom in that house...

He was having fun, and sometimes he was even changing his place of sleep. Sometimes he would sleep in the living room. Sometimes he would sleep with his parents.

He spent a lot of time next door with his uncles.

They were playing games with him, sometimes teasing him.

They used to prank him a lot, joke with him a lot, yes.

Is it almost more like they were your older brothers?

Exactly. They were like big brothers to him.

All the men in the family had jobs. Good jobs. They were well off. After leaving the army, Khaled Jamal's father worked at a car dealership in town.

He made good money. One of his father's brothers, Marwan, was an engineer for the government of a neighboring city.

The youngest brother, Khatan, worked as a customs officer on the border with Jordan. Another brother, Chaseb, was a traffic officer for the local police Department. When Khaled Jamal was 12 years old, his uncle Chaseb married Ehab.

Ehab moved into the house next door, and Khaled Jamal and his new aunt became really close. She was always joking around with him, playing with him.

.

Khalid was still the only kid at that point, but everyone in the family was hoping that would change. They couldn't wait for Ehab and Chaseb to have a child. They kept asking Ehab, So are you pregnant? When will you have a baby?

. It was actually Ehab's brother-in-law, Marwan, who was the most insistant.

Marwan was just so excited at the possibility. When Ehab suspected that she might finally be pregnant, Marwan was the one who offered to drive Ehab and her husband, Chaseb, to the clinic to get a pregnancy test.

.

She's saying that it's more than her husband. He was eager for the family to have another child. When the results came out and she was pregnant, he was so happy.

Marwan was beyond happy.

He was so shocked that he just drove the car and went back home without them.

He left them back at the clinic. He vanished. He's saying that when he heard about this, he just vanished and went back home and forget about them. Then the clinic waiting for him to get them home.

.

When she went back home, her and her husband, they were all cheering and chanting, and they were all so happy about this news.

Ehab gave birth to her son, Bakr, in 2004. Marwan ended up getting married, too. The family just kept growing. When I was interviewing the three of them, Ehab, Najla, and Khaled Jamal, about this time in their lives, this time before everything changed, what struck me was their joy. Even now, with all that had happened, when they talked about that time, they still clearly felt that joy. It was present. You could feel it.

She said that their life was so wonderful back then.

The night before November 19th, 2005, the whole family was hanging out together.

. One of Khaled Jamal's uncles, his father's youngest brother, Khatan, had just gotten back from a wedding.

.. He was talking to them about the wedding.

He was joking around. The whole family were gathered together to hear the stories about the wedding and everything.

It was one of those simple but magical evenings. The whole family gathered, the four brothers, their wives and kids, and another baby on the way. Ehab was six months pregnant. Usually, Khaled Jamal's father was pretty strict about bedtime, but that night, he let his son stay up late. It would be their last night together.

What do you remember about that next morning? Do you remember hearing the explosion?

The family's story of the morning of November 19th, 2005 starts with the IED exploding in the road nearby. Khaled Jamal still remembers the sound. The family woke up. Shrapnel started raining down.

. It was raining the parts of the Humvee on their roof.

So what did you do once you heard this?

He's saying that they continued their daily routine activities in the morning.

Like his father, he was making his breakfast as usual before going to the dealership.

.

But his mother noticed that their car, the BMW, and It was new. I noticed that there were two holes in their car.

One of the pieces of the exploded Humvee had hit Khal Jamal's father's brand new BMW. His father hadn't noticed yet.

..

She told him that if your father knows about that, he would be so sad and he would be so angry about it because he liked this car and it was brand new.

Khalil Jamal ran across the yard to the house next door. The house were his grandparents and aunts and uncles, and his one-year-old cousin lived.

. He was just going there to check on the rest of the family.

Everyone over there was okay. They were making breakfast, just like at his house. So Khaled Jamal turned around and went back home. The morning continued as normal. Khaled Jamal and his parents stayed inside, talking, doing whatever, nothing remarkable. Then, later that morning, a few hours after the IED had exploded, they suddenly heard shouting outside. And then someone started banging on the front door.

..

This is the part of the story where the accounts of Khaled Jamal and his family start to diverge from the Marine statements. Remember what the Marine said happened? How they said that they went to a house and realized that it was full of women and children. When the Marines asked where the men were, the women pointed at the house next door. Two of the Marines went inside that house and immediately encountered armed insurgents, one of them pointing an AK-47 right at them. A Marine fired first, and all four men were shot dead. But Khaled Jamal was saying that when the Marines arrived, the men weren't all huddled together in one house. They were in both houses doing their normal morning routines. Khaled Jamal's father was home with him and his mother, Najla, and Khaled Jamal's uncles were in the other house with their families.

.

His father just left what he was doing, and he went in the front door to open the door.

Khaled Jamal's father opened the door, and Khaled Jamal saw the face of a man whose name he learned later.

The first one that they saw was Frank.

Sergeant Frank Wutterrich. We'll be back after the break. Hi, it's Madelyne. I'm going to be honest with you. This season almost didn't happen, but we were able to report Season 3 to its conclusion and bring it to you because we joined the New Yorker. At In the Dark, we believe that investigative reporting can lead to real change. That's why I'm asking you to become a New Yorker subscriber. The New Yorker brings you not just In the Dark, but amazing non-fiction stories from the best writers and journalists working today. People like Rachel Aviv, Patrick Raddenkeath, and Ronan Farrow. The New Yorker relies on subscribers. You literally make our work possible. So please go to newyorker. Com/dark and become a subscriber today. A subscription starts at just a dollar a week, and it gives you unlimited access to everything The New Yorker publishes. And of course, you get a tote bag. That's newyorker. Com/dark. Khala Jamal looked at the face of this Marine, Sergeant Frank Wutterrich.

..

He remembers that he was shouting and his eyes were red and filled with anger.

.

And he can remember that. There was blood on Frank's uniform.

Two other Marines were with Wutterrich, Corporal Salinas and Lance Corporal Sheret. One of the Marines was holding a small gun.

.

So he had a pistol or something, like a handgun?

Yes, she said it's a small gun.

From the type of gun, at least, it sounded like Ehab could be describing Sheret because he was carrying Brian Witz 9 millimeter, and he was the only one in the squad that day who had a handgun.

. And he was shivering like his hands were shivering. Shaking? Shaking, yes.

The other two Marines were carrying machine guns. One of the Marines started yelling at them.

How was he talking? Could you talk how he was talking?

. They are saying that he was so angry, and he was just pointing at them and signaling, saying, Did you see who did the bombing? Ali Baba bom. And they kept saying no because... Yes.

. Okay.

This is a nickname that the Marines or US military named Al Qaeda. So Ali Baba referred to Al Qaeda.

The Marines asked if the family had any weapons. Iraqis at that time were allowed to have one AK-47 per household. It was common for the Marines to ask to see the weapon when they showed up to search a house. Khal Jamal's father told them, yes.

..

And he went and got the family's rifle and gave it to the Marines. It wasn't loaded.

.

The Marines asked Khal Jamal's dad about the other house, the one right next door. That's our family, too, Khaled Jamal's dad told the Marines. The Marines then marched them all over to that house, and everyone from the house next door came outside, too.

.

So they just came out one after one, and they all stood there on their grandfather's front yard.

The whole family was now out in the courtyard. The grandparents, the four brothers, three wives, including Najah and Ehab. Ehab was holding her one-year-old son, Bakr, and there was 14-year-old Khaled Jamal, 11 people in all. Just like at the first house, the Marines asked for any weapons. Ehab's husband, Shasib, said, Yes, we have a gun inside. He went into the house with the Marines to get it. They came back outside with the weapon. Back out in the courtyard, Chaseb tried talking to the Marines.

Trying to talk to the Marine, trying to him understand that he works with the government, that he's a police officer.

Chaseb was trying to tell the Marines, Look, there's no way I'm a member of Al Qaeda. I'm a police officer. I'm basically on your side. If anything, Al Qaeda wants to kill me because of my job.

But they didn't listen.

By this point, according to the family's account, the Marines had shown up, searched both houses, and retrieved a single weapon from each house. The Marines now had those weapons in their possession. What happened next was rather curious. The Marines went off by themselves into one of the houses. What they were doing in there wasn't clear. Maybe they were discussing what to do next.

.

After a few minutes, they came back outside. The Marines pointed at Khaled Jamal's father, at his uncle Chaseb, at his uncle Marwan, and at his uncle Khatan.

You and you and you.

The Marines were ordering the men into the house.

You and you and you. They pointed at each one to go inside the house.

Khaled Jamal started to go with his father and uncles.

.

They didn't point at Khaled, but Khaled wanted to go inside with them because He considered himself as a man as well at that time.

But his aunt, Ehab, pulled him back.

When Ehab saw the situation, she thought that Khaled is just a kid, and why would they want to ask him anything, or why would they want any information from him?

So she just picked him from his shoulders and dragged him and told him, Come back here, and he went back and stood with everyone else.

What were you thinking when your aunt, Ehab, pulled you back?

At that moment, he felt annoyed.

He thought that he didn't consider him as one of the family men, but he knew knew that it wasn't a good time for arguments, so he didn't say anything.

Khaled Jamal watched as his father and his father's three younger brothers were led back inside. There was a Marine in front of the men leading them into the house, and a Marine walking behind them.

When your father and uncles went into the house, did your father say anything to you? Did you see him as he went into the house?

No, he didn't say anything to him. Did any of your He's saying that he remembers the last look or the last time he saw his father and his uncles.

He remembers that the first one to go inside was his father.

Then his uncle, Qhahtan, then his uncle, Marwan, then his uncle, Jaceb.

They went inside one by one, and he can remember that he couldn't see them anymore.

This moment where the Marines separated the men from the women, children, and elderly is not in any of the Marine statements. If the family's story is true, what they are describing is the Marines methodically marching four unarmed men into a house. The family says that the other Marine ordered the rest of them, the women, the children, the elderly, into the other house. Then the Marine closed the door on them. The Marine stood outside holding the door shut.

What were you thinking when the Marine put you in your house?.

They are saying that they both thought that worst case scenario, they will arrest them. They are being arrested.

The women tried to push open the door, but the Marine held it closed.

At one point, the Marine took his rifle and smashed it against a window. Broke the window just to scare them off, to make them quit wanting to open the door, and they did They got scared, and they didn't try to open the door.

And then, they heard gunshots. Najla tried pushing the door open again, and this time it opened easily, and they realized that the Marine who had been holding it closed had left. Najla and her son, Khala Jamal, went straight to the house where her husband and his brothers had been taken. They went inside. The smell of gunpowder lingered in the air. Khala Jamal saw his uncle, Chaseb, on the ground.

His eyes were still open.

And his uncle, Khatan. Khalaj Amal opened the door of a large wooden wardrobe, and inside, he found his uncle, Marwan, shot in the head. Lying next to the wardrobe on the floor was his father.

He went straight to see his father, and he saw that his father had a hole in the back of his head.

Khal Jamal got down on the floor and held his father in his arms.

And he just lost it. He just didn't know what to do.

Then, Ehab came inside and saw her husband dead on the ground.

She said that she basically sat on the floor between the bodies.

.. She was six months pregnant, and she just couldn't do anything.

She just sat down between the bodies.

And she was shouting and crying.

Did you have your son, Baker, with you?

She was holding him in her hands, so he was with her.

. She was searching, like how did they die?

She was searching for the gunshots, and all the gunshots were in the head. So she was saying that It's like their brains came out.

I'm so sorry you had to see that.

While Ehab sat next to the bodies, Najla ran She just lost it.

She ran away on the street, and she was knocking on every neighbor's door. She hoped that one of the neighbors could help her.

So she was running just house to house, just knocking for help.

Najma finally found a neighbor who was willing to help. His name is Aus Fahmi. Our colleague, Namak, talked to him in Haditha. House. Aus described how he ran toward Najla's house. He saw Marines on a rooftop. And then, as he stood at Najla's door, he was shot. The bullet hit his stomach, and he collapsed. His wife was watching all this from their house. Namak talked to her, too, and she said that when she saw that her husband had been shot, she ran outside to help him. The Marines started shooting at her, too, but they missed. She carried her husband down the street to get away from the Marines and brought him inside a neighbor's house where they wrapped He had his wounds with towels, rags, anything they could find. At one point, they even used a clean diaper. Later that day, they took Alice to the hospital. He survived, but it took him over a year before he could walk again. Back inside the house where the four brothers lay, Ehab stayed sitting on the ground next to the body of her husband for hours, holding their baby boy, Bacher, and screaming.

The more Ehab Ehab screamed, the more Baker cried, and Ehab was too distraught to comfort him. She didn't feed him for seven hours because basically she was in shock.

After a while, some other Marines came in and told them they had to leave. Ehab got up off the ground and went outside.

.

But all that night, Bacher wouldn't stop crying. Najla's night was a blur. She spent it at a relative's house. Her son, Jamal, wandered off and spent hours outside. He didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

.

He fainted and slept till 3:00 AM the next morning.

And he woke up and he was shocked, like why I'm here? What am I doing here?

.. He thought that this is one of his uncle's pranks.

Jaseb and Marwan, he thought that they were pranking him.

The next day, the family buried their dead. The grief hit everyone differently. Najla and Ehab had lost their husbands. Khaled Jamal had lost his dad and his uncles, who are basically like brothers to him. Khaled Jamal's grandparents, faced with the loss of four of their children all at once, were devastated..

The grandmother was so shocked that she ripped her clothes off and she just pulled her hair and she didn't know what to do. She grabbed a knife and she wanted to kill herself because she couldn't handle the situation, the shock everything.

So they prevented her from doing that.

So did they grab the knife from her?

Yes, they did.

And Khaled Jamal's grandfather lost his sight.

. They are saying that the grandfather, he was crying a lot that he went blind.

He actually went blind?

No, they said that they took him to a doctor, and the doctor and the doctor said his eyes are fine, but he don't want to see anymore. It's like nothing worth seeing anymore. And he died after them in seven months.

A few months after the killings, Ehab gave birth to her second child. She named him Omar. In the years after their husbands were killed, Ehab and Najla grew even closer. Najla helped Ehab raise her children. They relied on each other to get through..

Whenever Ehab was upset or feeling down, she would go to Najla to calm her down..

She tells all her secrets to Najla.

..

She's saying she's like a mother, sister, or more than a friend to her. It's like all of this in Najla.

Khaled Jamal grew up being raised by his mother and also by his aunt Ehab. He got married, and he and his wife had a son. When his son was born, Khaled Jamal made a phone call to the person he credited with saving his life, the person who made it possible for him to still be alive to become a father. He called his aunt Ehab.

She's saying that when he called her, he was basically thanking her a lot and a lot and a lot. And she didn't know what he was thanking her for. But then he said that, Thank you for letting me be in this moment, to love this moment, and to see my son being born.

Khaled Jamal was thanking his aunt for that split-second decision so many years ago to pull him away from his father and uncles, to keep him from going inside that house. I brought some documents with me to Iraq, the statements of the Marines about what happened that day.

We have looked at the statements of the Marines who did this. So we could, if they want, we could tell them what those Marines claimed.

They would like to know about these statements, and they said that they didn't know how the investigation went. They didn't know anything, so they want to know.

Okay.

So the three Marines who were there, their names were Frank Wutterrich, Justin Sheret, and Hector Salinas.

I started telling them the Marine story about how they saw something suspicious that drew them to the houses, how when they arrived, the women and children were broadly all in that one house.

When the Marines asked where the men were, they pointed to the house next door. I explained how the Marines said they went into that house and what they said happened inside.

What they say happened is that one of the men inside had an AK 37 and tried to shoot them, and then they killed the men.

As I was telling them all this, Najla and Ehab are shaking their heads.

No.

Najla, you were very surprised. Yeah, she was. You're shaking your head. Did not happen?

Yeah.

Exactly. She did not. She said, It's insane. This is not what happened. Yes, Najma said, It's insane. This is not what happened.

All three of them were insistent. The Marine story was absolutely false. The idea that any of these men, their family members, were insurgents, that was absurd to them. Eia reminded us that her husband, Shasib, worked as a traffic officer for the local police Department, a job that insurgents killed people for having. She even pulled out a photo to prove it. Oh, is that a picture of her husband?

Yes. In his uniform? Yes. What uniform is that?

.

Sergeant. Murur. Traffic police.

We also talked to several other people who lived in Haditha then and now, and they all describe this family the same way. Comfortable, good jobs, well-regarded, nice people. Definitely not insurgents.

How does it feel to learn this?

.

Ihab saying that this Marine who's claiming that this was his truth, she said that he knows the truth as she knows it. She said that the killing of her husband and his brothers, it wasn't like something for defending themselves. They just shot them. And she said that she is certain that this man knows the truth and knows that he killed those people without any reason.

..

She doesn't care at all what he says.

We'll be back after the break.

This is the story of a young woman who disappeared. She cut ties with all of her family and friends, apparently because of one woman, a therapist, and the extraordinary thing she led her client to believe.

She was just always, Look at the dream.

Look at your memories. It's all there. You just need to believe it. As I started to investigate, it turned out this young woman wasn't the only one. From Tortoise, This is Dangerous Memories. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

One day, while we were talking with Khaled Jamal, we turned off the air conditioner in the hotel room because it was so noisy. But at one point, it got so hot, we had to take a break. Yeah.

Okay, let's turn on the air conditioning, take a little break.

Samara called down to the lobby and ordered coffee and pastries. Hi, is this room service? Hi, I wanted to order- While we were waiting, Khaled Jamal asked me a question. He asked me whether I had ever talked to Frank Wutterrich.

Also, can you meet Frank Wutterrich?

Not yet, no.

And then Khaled Jamal said something surprising. I hope to meet him. He wanted to talk to Wutterrich.

I want to ask him.

Hold on. Okay.

I need to ask him one question, only just one question. How did he kill them? I want to explain how did he that? In our house, how.

Khal Jamal told us that he's always wanted to know what happened in his father and uncle's final moments.

I want that.

Why?

I want to know what's happened in Rome.

Because you don't know?

Yes. I saw the bodies only. I want to know how he did this killings of my father, my uncle's, and ask just a question and just answer from him.

Khaled Jamal has always had this instinct to want to know, to want the truth of his father and uncle's final moments to be revealed. Even in the days after the killings, as a kid, it was on his mind. I've seen a video taken maybe a day after the killings. In the video, 14-year-old Khaled Jamal is sitting in a room. As the camera focuses on him, he leans forward, looks directly into the lens. Put me on TV, he shouts. He motions for the cameraman to film the ground. The camera moves to reveal a body wrapped in a brown and yellow blanket. This, Khaled Jamal says, gesturing to the body, his voice, harsh, This is my father.. This instinct to document, to show what happened, has stayed with Khaled Jamal. He's precise, analytical. He's a lecturer in computer science. He brought his computer to the interview. He showed us a folder on his desktop, research he'd done online into the killings of his father and uncles.

I have my laptop.

So what do you have on your computer?

Folder. In the folder, I. A folder, you said? Yeah.

What's the folder called?

Documents.

Khaled Jamal, of course, didn't have the government documents that we gotten from our lawsuits, all those investigative records, the Marine's original statements. But he found what was available online, mostly old news articles. He'd use Google Translate to translate them into Arabic.

.

He spent lots of time on the search. Every time he finds something, he put it in his folder.

The stuff that Khaled Jamal had found online mostly had to do with a squad leader, Frank Wutterrich. He'd even found Wutterrich's old Facebook page.

So you just pulled him up. Here he is. This is his Facebook page you just pulled up on your phone. What were you hoping to find when you looked at his Facebook?

He was Curious to know who was this person.

He looked up his Facebook account just to know what is this person looked like, where did he study, what did he study, his friends, his family, and everything.

Khaled Jamal has looked at Woodrich's Facebook page over and over again. It was a strange position to be in, knowing the name of one of the Marines who was involved in the killing of his father and uncles. And knowing that that man wasn't in prison. He was just out in the world on Facebook, doing regular things, raising his own family. Khaled Jamal even thought about getting in touch with Frank Wutterrich. Sometimes he thought, Maybe I could just message him and ask him what happened in my father's final moments. Sometimes he wished he could send Wutterrich a photo of the bodies of his family.

He wanted to take a photo of that and send it to Frank and tell him that But I hope this stays with you for your whole life.

Ori thought about sending Woodrich photos of his younger cousins, Baker and Omar. Baker was just a year old when his father was killed, and Omar wasn't even born yet.

He had the photos of his cousins. He wants to show it to him to compare why those children was raised without their father.

In the end, Khaled Jamal didn't do any of these things. But he keeps going over and over that day in his mind, wondering exactly what happened inside that house. Who was killed first? Was it his father? Or did his father have to watch as his brothers were executed before being killed himself? Khaled Jamal has even dreamt about this. He dreamed he was there in the house, watching it all unfold.

How did they die? Did they die like brave men, or were they scared? What happened? Did they struggle? Did they fought back with their hands? What did they do?

.

He wants to know the little details after they couldn't see them anymore.

And how does it feel not to know?

..

He thinks about this every time. It's like keeping his mind busy with the incident that happened that day.

Khalil Jamal's question, what happened in those final moments, wasn't just his. His family shared it. Eab told me how badly she wants to know those details.

.

She's saying that she always thinks to herself that who was killed first? And if so, who saw the other being murdered in front of them? She's like, Their relationship is so strong. I'm sorry.

She said that their relationship was so strong.

They were really bonded. She just wants to know who've been murdered first, not for punishment or anything. Just...

Ehab was saying she just wanted to know what happened. One evening, while we were in Erbeel, we met up with Khaled Jamal and climbed up to the top of the city's ancient citadel. We leaned on the stone parapets and looked down at the city. It's a place that's here.

It's beautiful.

I'd spent a fair amount of time with Khaled Jamal by then, and it was clear that he wanted more than anything to know more about what happened to his father and uncles. And so I decided to tell him that there were photos of his dead father and uncles, photos I'd never seen, photos the Marines had taken on the night of the killings. I explained that the photos had been kept from the public, and that the government claimed it had sealed the photos, in part to protect the survivors.

So we've obtained a lot of documents in the case, but one of the things we haven't been able to get are a lot of photos of the killings, photos that were taken by the US military. And those photos were sealed by a military judge. And when they were sealed, they said the reason was because, number one, national security, and then also because the families of the people who were killed might be traumatized if they were to see the photos. For us, the photos might help us, give us more evidence of what happened that day. Tell me. Tell me.

I told him about an idea.

We talked to our lawyer in the United States, and one thing he said is that if you and other family members would be willing to sign a form that says that you're okay with the photos being released, then we could show that to the American judge and see if that judge would agree to release to have the photos.

If the family members wanted us to have the photos, they could sign a release saying that. Then maybe a judge would order the military to give them to us.

There's no guarantee that a judge would agree to that, and it's completely up to you whether or not you want to sign a form like that, but I just wanted to offer it as a possibility.

Without missing a beat, Khala Jamal said, I'm ready to sign. I actually asked Khala Jamal to think about it. I didn't accept his answer in the moment. It didn't seem appropriate to resolve it all right there. I wanted him to really think it through. When he did, he was just as certain. He also offered to bring the form to other people in Haditha. Who'd lost family members in the killings that day. One day, two years ago, Khaled Jamal set off. He was joined by the other Khaled, Khaled Sleiman Rezif, a lawyer who'd lost 15 loved ones that day and who had spent years trying to justice. These two men went house to house, explaining the reporting, explaining who we were, asking people if they would consider signing the form. At one house, Khaled Jamal told a father of one of the victims, Of course, I am one of you, and asked him to sign the release, saying, Things that happened in the massacre will be exposed. The father said,.

The drowning man will cling to the straw.

We do it. We sign, we sign.. I will sign it twice, not once. Visiting Saafa, Khaled Salman Rezief explained why they are collecting signatures. Surrounded by her own children, she agreed, writing, I am the daughter of Younes Salem.

..

And so it went, the two Khaled's going house to house, collecting signatures. From fathers, mothers, wives, sons and daughters. Until finally, they had collected 17 signatures in all. We sent the signed forms to our lawyers, and our lawyers filed them in court. If you want to listen to episode 6 right now, ad free, you can do that by subscribing to The New Yorker. Subscribers will get all of our remaining episodes ad-free a week early. Go to newyorker. Com/dark to subscribe and listen now. In the Dark is reported and produced by me, Madelyne Baron, managing producer, Samara Freemark, producers, Natalie Jablansky and Raymond Tungakar, and reporter, Parker Jesko. In the Dark is edited by Katherine Winter and Willing Davidson. Reporting and Investigating in Iraq by BBC Arabic's Namak Khoshnav and field producer Haider Ahmed. Interpreting in Iraq by Aya Muthena. Additional interpreting and translation by Aya Al-Shikarchi. This episode was fact-checked by Lucy Cronin and Lynnea Feldman-Emerson. Original music by Allison Leighton-Brown. Sound design and mix by John Delore. Our theme is by Gary Meister. Our art is by Emiliano Ponzi. Art direction by Nicholas Conrad and Aviva Michaelov. Foyal legal representation from the Foyal team at Lowy & Lowy.

Legal review by Fabio Bertoni. In the Dark was created by American Public Media and is produced by The New Yorker. Our managing editor is Julia Rothschild. The head of global audio for Conde podcast is Chris Spannen. The editor of The New Yorker is David Remnick. If you have comments or story tips, you can send them to us at inthedark@newyorker. Com. Make sure to follow In the Dark wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm investigative journalist and former Deputy Sheriff, Scott Weinberg.

I'm Anna Segan-Nicolasi, former New York City Homicide Prosecutor. Each week on our podcast, Anatomy of murder, we give you the inside perspective as we dissect the layers of each case, the victim, the crime, and the investigation. You'll hear from victims, loved ones, and those actually involved in the journeys to justice. Because the heart of each of these cases and this podcast is people. Listen to Anatomy of murder now wherever you listen to podcasts. From PRX.