How do you know if, in fact, you are a chronic procrastinator, that you're part of that 20%? What are some of the signs so that somebody can go, This is beyond just a funny thing or something that frustrates me. This is something I really need to sit up and pay attention to.

Okay. Yes. Again, this is somebody who RSVPs, shows up late, who may show up consistently to different events, misses sporting events and concerts because they never get the ticket on time. You know they're going to be late for gifts. They drive their car on fumes because they're always late getting the gas or whatever they may need. You notice in a variety of settings. If you find yourself doing it at home, at school, at work, in relationships, that you're always doing this way, then, and Other people can get annoyed by you and tell you that you're a procrastinator. You may be a chronic procrastinator because you're doing it across time and across space. In science, that's what we look for, for consistency. Does it happen from day to day or time to time? And does it happen across location to location, time and space? You have to see how well. Now, if it's only one task, I really don't like doing the dishes. For me, it's cutting the grass. I am dressed like I'm going to go cut the grass. I have all these excuses. It's been raining and it looks like it's going to rain again today, but I'm not a procrastinator at all.

You ask me to do something, you'll get it done. But that's something I will delay doing. Ask yourself, do you do this in different locations at different times? Have people told you that you're delayed? And as I said, this is men and women. There's no significant gender difference. This is young and old, urban and rural, different cities in the farm areas and the rural areas. No All races. There is a difference between white collar and blue collar. White collar procrastinate more. Let me make your listeners understand, because I understand you have a lot of countries here, that this is not just a US thing. This is not only a Western culture, because I've collected data with colleagues in Britain, Australia, Canada, Germany, Poland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Spain, Ireland, Italy, Peru, Venezuela, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea. We're currently doing Iran, and I'm doing some more studies with people in Turkey, and I'm finding 20%. Wow. So this is really global. Now, the next question is, is this genetic? Are we just human nature? Are we born this way? No.

What?

No, we're not born procrastinating. Oh, yeah. Some people will say, Well, there's nothing I can do about it. That's just who I am. I'm always like, No, no. You learn You learned to be a procrastinator. From who? You can unlearnt it. Oh, from dad's. But we'll get Dad's? Yeah. You learn to be a procrastinator, all right? So you can unlearnt it. That's very optimistic. That means you're not Can you condemn this way? Yes, you can teach old dogs new tricks. You just use a different bone, and it takes them longer, but you can unlearnt it. If you're born that way, if that's just who you are, then you're screwed. Then it's over. Then it's over. There's nothing I can do with it. That's unfortunately, too much of our culture is this way. Well, that's how they are. That's how people are. No, people can change. Let's be much more optimistic.

Dr. Ferrari.

In my rambling-Hold on.

I need to tell you something.

Okay.

I love you.

Thank you. Don't tell my wife, but that's okay.

I love you because I believe the same thing. Of course, you can freaking change. Yeah, it's hard, but of course, you can. And so what you just said made me take a deep breath because I, a thousand %, fall into the category of being a chronic procrastinator.

Do you mind sharing a little bit what that means to you, please, publicly? Are you okay with that?

Oh, of course. Absolutely. So all the way back to my academic career at Dartmouth College and Boston College Law School. Every single paper was an all-nighter. Every single test was a cram session. I was late to every class. You asked me to do something, I'll forget. When you said birthdays, the bane of my existence is that I forget birthdays. I hate that about myself. I I literally hate it about myself. Anniversaries come up on me with my husband. We've been married for 27 years now.

Congratulations.

I forget to book plane tickets. I leave something on a plane everywhere I go. I also have dyslexia. I also have been diagnosed with ADHD. I have this story that there's nothing I can do about it. And that in some ways, when I think about the creative process, that I need made this burst of adrenaline. There's something about the last minute scramble that gets my ass going and gets my brain churning. I don't know if that's a story. I don't know if that's a habit. I don't know what the hell it is, but it drives me crazy. It makes me mad that I'm terrible at time management. It makes me embarrassed when I'm late. My husband calls it Mel time. Let's say we have to be out at a dinner with friends at 6:00. The drive is 10 minutes. It is 20 minutes to 6:00. Chris is dressed. He's already fed the dogs. He is walking toward the car. I am running around looking for my phone. I have one shoe on. I go into the bedroom, and now I think I have time to make three calls and make the bed and change my clothes.

Chris literally will be sitting in the car in the driveway while I am running around the house like a lunatic trying to find things. It never equated the last minute scramble, actually, with procrastinating. I equated it with poor planning, with-Excuse making. Excuse making.

I got to shut up.

I'll let you go on for it. No, No, it's true.

Because when you stop, I've got a whole bunch of stuff to say, but keep going.

What I procrastinate on is paperwork. I miss paying bills. I lose my credit cards all the time. I'm constantly without a cord charger for my phone. My gas tank. I feel like my form of gambling is to see how far I can go. And then I'm like, Why do I do this to myself? And it's this constant battle. All right.

May I jump in now, Ms. Robbins?

Yes, you may, Dr. Ferrari.

You said quite a few things, so thank you for sharing with us all of these items. In no particular order, I jotted I found some things as you were saying them, so I want to go through them. You started off by telling us about your academic procrastination. All right. What I have found is that 70% of college students will delay writing, studying, going to that mentor, doing all these things. At 70%, now, remember, everybody procrastinates, but not everyone is a procrastinator. The college student might delay studying, reading, writing a paper, cramming at the last minute, doing all that. They may do it, If there's a free keg of beer in the dorm, they're there. If Lady Gaga is given a concert for the first 50 people, Lizzo's in the other room, they're there. Then they're not procrastinators. They procrastinate. When you started off, I was saying, Okay, then she's an academic procrastinator, not a chronic procrastinator. But then you did move into other realms. You gave me a nice list of all these different tasks that your 5 million followers have said. My question to all of them, that is very nice, but is that the only thing that you're procrastinating with?

Because then again, if it is, then you're just procrastinating. You're not a procrastinator. I'm not sure if you're familiar with, maybe some of your listeners are, with a concept called meta-analysis. It's a research technique. Yeah. Okay. For those who are not familiar, a meta-analysis, a scientist takes previously published studies, takes all of them, enters them into a formula, and looks to see most effective based on these bodies of literature. Two of them have been done on interventions to deal with procrastination. The least effective technique, the technique that will not work with Procrastinators is time management. What works is CBT, cognitive behavior therapy, because you need to change the procrastinator's way of thinking, cognitive, and the way they act, because it's not a question of time management. Time management, stop. It's not going to work. Change the way you think, the way you act.

How do we do that?

Well, you start with this.

You read the book, still procrastinating. Awesome.

You start with the book, and then you go find a good PhD, a clinical psychologist who's cognitive behaviorly trained, and you stop the excuse making. One of the things I talk about is they're very good at the but however's. Oh, yes. I was going to do that, but. I could have done however. So your listener who's a chronic will listen to this and go, Well, that was very interesting. That was entertaining, but in my case, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

What are we talking about? The big P, procrastination.

Do not listen to the current media people who are coming out and saying procrastination.