There's a saying that says that if you don't want to be a doormat anymore, get up off the floor. You train people, you condition people on how to treat you. It may sound harsh, but it is the absolute truth. And narcissists are the best ones for that. And that's just the truth of the matter.

So if they don't change and somebody's either unwilling or too scared to leave right now, how can you truly negotiate with somebody like that?

Well, you can because what I teach works.

Rebecca, I just have to say I love the swagger. Well, you can because what I teach works because that makes me believe you. You're referring to your Slay method. Slay is a four-part framework that you follow in the courtroom and in life for dealing with negotiating with and winning against a Narcissist. Can you explain what SLA stands for?

Slay stands for strategy, leverage, anticipate, and you.

Let's start with the first one, S. What does it stand for?

S stands for developing a super strong strategy, which is the first part of that is creating a vision. If you're just trying to communicate in general, if you're just trying to figure out what to do with them, if you're in a family situation, if you're just trying to figure out how to deal with them in life, if it's your neighbor, if it's your tenant, what is it that you want? So many times people are like, I just want them to stop, or I just want peace. That's not a goal. You want to be specific about what you want.

Is there a reason why peace can't be a goal? And Let's take the example that you either have a mother or a father who is a narcissist, and all you do want is peace. You are not ready to become estranged and to remove them from your life, and you want to figure out a strategy that helps you know what your vision is. How do you figure that out? Because to your point, you always talk about these three Cs is that you can't change them, you can't control them, and you can't... What's the other one?

You can't cause it, control it, or cure it.

That's right. You can't cause this, you can't cure it, and you can't control it. And so knowing that, how do you create a vision If it's your mother or your father, what questions do you ask yourself?

I still think even if it's your mother or father, you can create a more specific vision around what that relationship should look like for you.

I don't want to be triggered all the time. I don't want her or his BS to trigger me or make me feel manipulated.

Right. Or even put that in positive terms.

Do I have to? Yeah. Put it in positive terms. Okay. What does that look like?

Right. So we will see each other X number of times a year. And during those visits, we will have these kinds of conversations And this is how I will define the relationship. And I think that you should be more specific like that because-I love that. Yeah. I think that will be Because you get what you envision in life, right?

I love that. I love that because you're right. I think you're so conditioned when you're dealing with somebody who's narcissistic to think about it from what you're enduring versus is, what would you actually want. And a lot of times, it's like, I'd like to be able to walk into a school function where my ex is and not feel like I've just left my body in a panic attack. I put that in a negative, but that's a very common one that I noticed, is that people dealing with exes and feeling completely enmeshed and triggered and wanting to be able to feel powerful and unaffected anytime I see them.

Right.

Yeah. Is that positive enough?

No. I love you, Rebecca.

Help us.

I think it should be, I want to be able to walk into a school function and sit next to them and be able to discuss our child together and be happy for our child together and celebrate her together and and go out for pizza together afterwards and laugh together during the show. I think if you can be really specific like that, then it would actually be more beneficial for you.

Beautiful. L stands for Leverage. What does that mean?

So Leverage is where you're actually creating that motivation for the person to want to be squeezed and incentivized to want to come to a resolution with you. And in the case of a Narcissist, it's going to have to be a situation where that diamond level supply is potentially going to be threatened. Or there are times where you could potentially, what I call, fluff for favor, vomit later.

Fluff for favor, vomit later?

Yes. Where you fluff up their ego in order to get something, give them something they want in order to get something you want.

I do this all the time with someone in my life, actually, now that I'm realizing I have really developed this strategy. I do You deploy a strategy. I'm realizing, as you're talking, to feed a particular person's ego, that they are getting their way, that they are the most important person, in the room, and I do that as a manipulation strategy so that I can get what I want.

Exactly. Just as long as you know that you're only doing it in order to get what you want. If you have to go shower or vomit later, then you do the thing. But it's in order to get what you want later. But more often than not, what you have to do is use your documentation because they lie so much, because they're so careless, frankly. I mean, they don't think you're ever going to keep track of all the different times that they say things that are... They'll say something in a text message. They'll say something in an email, they'll say... I mean, honestly, they are very irrational. As we talked about at the beginning of this show, how many times their memory is faulty or whatever. But if you keep track, that's how you create your leverage in a negotiation. And you say, Hey, you said this, you said this, you said this. I am going to present this in court. I call it ethically manipulating the manipulator. You can call it whatever you want. Many times, empaths are uncomfortable with that thing. You have to be on the offensive when you are dealing with a narciss.

It's not doing anything other than what works. I mean, it's not anything that's unethical at all, but you have to do the things that are offensive, whereas most empaths are like, I don't want to fight. I just want to resolve this peacefully. Let's just come to a resolution. But if you want to come to a resolution and you want them to stop jerking you around and you want them to leave you alone, this is what you have to do because they're never going to leave you alone. They're never going to stop. So many people come to me and they say, Oh, we're still in court. It's five years later. They won't leave me alone. And I say, Well, then you haven't figured out what your diamond level supply is yet. You haven't figured out what your leverage is yet.

I I bet that part, figuring out your leverage, is the hardest part because you feel so spun around by the narcissist. Let me just see if I can track with you here. In your four-part framework for negotiating with a narcissist, it's slay. Remember, Everybody, S is strategy. You have to have a vision of what you're looking for and that you want to get out of the relationship. Again, you have to have this going in or you're going to be spun around like a top. The example that you gave, Rebecca, is my strategy is I'd like to sit next to them in a school function and discuss our child in a civil manner. The next step is L, and L is for leverage. Again, this has to do with that narcissistic supply. They're always going to want to feed their ego. This never ends. You've learned this, and you have to accept that as fact and then use your leverage to give them what they want, even if it makes you vomit later. And you're doing this, you're giving them the supply, the attention, the praise, the this, the that, the weekend trade that they're asking for.

You're giving them that, even if it may, I don't want to have to do this. Why? So you can get what you want. And the reason why this is important is because when you supply them with something, what happens? You go into the cycle where they're nice to you. And lots of leverage, by the way, Rebecca is teaching you, comes down to giving them what they want, but also documenting what they say, what they do, and how many times you say something, and how many times you do something, and why do you need the documentation, especially if you're in a confrontational thing. You don't have to be in court for this, by the way. This might be that you constantly argue with your parents about who's hosting the holidays. Keep a record. Keep a a record, so you have proof. I'm dead serious about this because this comes down to leverage and to supply, right? And this also keeps you from going crazy. And a lot of this has to do with the fact that when you give them something, they're in a good mood, so you can sneak in what you want. See how this works?

I love this. So now that we understand the strategy and the leverage, A comes next. And you say, Rebecca, you and I got to be able to be two steps ahead, always. You got to anticipate. Can you teach us what you mean by that?

So A is where you can actually figure out the type of narcissist that you're dealing with, because they will all act a little differently in negotiation situations. And so a covert narcissist is much more likely to use the flying monkeys and pretend like they're the nice one, and I'm the victim, and, Oh, poor me, and all of that. Covert are going to be the first one if somebody has cancer to show up with the basket and be right at their side in the hospital and that thing, but smearing everybody on the side. You just have to be careful of who you're dealing with. And then the anticipation is also that knowing that they're going to try to bait you. I always say they go fishing, they go, and then they reel you in like this. And then once they have you, you're in the mud and you're down there.

That makes a lot of sense. So what's the final part of the four-part slay framework?

The why, which is you, which is you standing in your authentic power. It's for you on the offensive and then also your mindset, because 100% of winning is your mindset. And if you don't believe you can win, nobody can help you. And I have so many people who have said to me that I can't win or I can't do this or whatever. And I always say to people, do you want to be right about that or do you actually want to win? Because you can be right or you can actually get out of this and win, but you can't have both, right? The good news is that there is a way to deal with them. You So most people think that there's not. Most people say, you can't negotiate with a narcissist. You can't deal with a narcissist. There's nothing you can do. That it's pointless. It's hopeless. The good news is that there is actually a framework. It is actually pretty simple. They are actually pretty simple to understand. And that once you get on the other side of it and you stand up to them and you grab that power, the freedom that you feel, the feeling that you feel is actually beyond better than anything else.

The people who I've helped through my programs are so powerful now. I actually now have master coaches who are becoming... They're graduating from my coaching program now. Program now. And it is beyond anything else that's more magical and more powerful than ever. That's the beautiful thing. You and you alone define your value. You can win.

I thought I knew what a Narcissist was, but I didn't.

A Narcissist is not what you think. A Narcissist is not a person who thinks so highly of themselves.