I was so fascinated by this theory, this let them theory, which is kind of a behavioral technique, I guess. Would you describe it as a behavioral technique? No.

No, I would.

What is it?

So the let them theory is based on a simple truth. The fastest way to take control of your life is to stop controlling everyone around you. You have no idea how much time and energy and attention you are wasting trying to control other people. You have no idea how much energy you are burning through thinking about, worrying about, obsessing about what other people are doing, what they're not doing, what they. Their feeling, all of which you have zero control over. And so the let them theory is this simple theory that I credit my daughter with teaching me that has created so much peace in my life, because, like every other human being on the planet, I had no idea how many opinions, how much frustration and expectations I had about what other people were doing or what they should be doing. Like, it's just unreal how obsessed we all are with everybody else and what they should be doing and what they're not doing. And when you start to use the let them theory, you will notice it's just unbelievable how much you need to use it. There are exceptions. I mean, I can explain a lot about this.

I'll give you the quick story about how I learned it. Cause I think it's very helpful. So it was our son's junior prom. So he's a 11th grader in the States, and like most moms, you know, completely obsessed about everything. It's also my son, and this is his first prom. And I had had daughters, so it was a totally different circus with our daughters. And I thought that his would be drama free because he's a guy, but it actually became more dramatic because he doesn't say anything. And so everything. Steven was a last minute scramble, right? Like, from getting the tux to. He needed to have these certain Stan Smith Adidas sneakers, and we had to overnight those to the fact that he was just gonna go with his friends. And then all of a sudden, he has to date. And then she wants a boutonniere. She doesn't want a boutonniere. And then we're going into the. And every step of the way, I had internal opinion. Why isn't he? So we get to the pre prom photo party. That's a lot of peas. And our daughter happened to be home from college, and so she was there for the weekend, and all of a sudden, it starts to rain out of nowhere.

And by rain, I mean a hailstorm. It is raining sideways. And I realize none of these kids have umbrellas. None of these kids are prepared for this. And so I turn to our son, and I'm like, oh, where are you guys going for dinner? And he's like, well, I don't know. And I turn towards my husband. I'm like, they don't have plans for dinner. What do you mean? They didn't make a reservation for the prom. And so I start to get all worked up, and now all the other parents are like, wait, you didn't make. Do you want me to call the inn? Do you guys want us to order pizzas? And the ramp up is happening, and I start to jump in, and my daughter grabs my arm and she says, let them. Just let them do what they want. And oak yells over and says, hey, mom, I think we're going to go to this taco thing. Now, the taco place that they were going to, Steven, is like, the size of this table. There are 20 kids. It is hailing outside. They are dressed to the nines. And I could feel that volcano of control coming up.

Like, you can't go to the taco place. You're in a tux, and you got the new sneakers, and her dress is.

Going to get ruined, and you don't.

Even have an umbrella. And Kendall has my arm. She's like, let them. If they want to go to a taco stand in the pouring rain and ruin their dress, let them. It's their prom, not yours. And as she said it, I started just repeating those words. Stephen, let them.

Let them go to the taco stand.

Let him ruin his shoes. Who cares? Let him do what he wants to do. Why am I worried about what he's doing? Why am I not worried about where I'm going to have dinner? And so it was just this moment, and it immediately kind of unhooked me. And then from that point forward, I just noticed a million situations sitting at the restaurant that night, and the waiter is busy with other stuff, and they're not coming to the table. How does everybody feel when that happens? Let them. Let them be busy. Let them take care of the other table. Standing in line. And people, I don't know what it is about the world today, but people cannot stand in lines. Fidgeting and this and that and the other thing. And the person is letting in people from that line, and they're not letting in people from this line. Let them. Let them. And some of the, like, really important topics, too. Like, if your kid wants to drop out of school, you can say what you need to say. Ultimately, it's their life. Let them.

What's going on there at the heart of that is that just a lowering of one's expectations. So that, going back to the point we said about expectations and happiness, we alleviate the chance of disappointment. And because we're just saying, fine, let it go. What is the very crux of that on a psychological level, that's allowing us to feel liberated from that stress and need for control?

What do you think it is?

I think when we take on other people's problems, we create expectation for them. Like in the case of your son, you had an expectation of what his night would look like and where his trainers and tucks were going to go. And that unmet expectation is causing you unnecessary suffering, control, stress, angst, vigilance. And just by saying, do you know what? Like, I wish him well, you're just cutting the cord of a whole nother stream of expectation that you absolutely do not need. You don't need to volunteer to make your yours.

And look how much stress it created.

Yeah.

And look how much agitate created.

Yeah.

So there's so many things going on, Steven. And first of all, I should also say there are exceptions. First of all, you're not just going to let your kids do whatever they're going to do if you're a parent, because you're supposed to put the guardrails up. Right. But there is so much controlling that we do in our lives of other people, and it is ruining your relationships. And a great example of a way to use this is, let's say that you see that your friends are going out for brunch this weekend. They didn't invite you.

Happens all the time with my team.

Let them. Let them. Because here's the thing that's really important, is it's really not about other people. See, energetically, you're hooking yourself into other people because you have an opinion about what they should or shouldn't be doing. And that opinion is usually driven by your insecurity, or it's driven by your controlling nature, or it's driven by your anxiety, or it's driven by whatever it is that you may have. But once you get your energetic hook into somebody else, you've now just lost control because you are now trying to gain control of anything in your life. What your friends are doing for brunch this weekend by focusing on them. When you say, let them, this is what's very interesting. It's very different than saying, I'm just gonna let go. I don't give a hoot. I don't care. Baloney. If you're feeling a wave of energy about it or emotion about it, you do care because the emotion is evidence that it is impacting you. And so most people understand that you should just let it go or you shouldn't care, but they don't know how. When you say let them, a couple really interesting things happen.

Number one, you acknowledge what's happening, which both acknowledges that your friends are out to lunch without you, and it also acknowledges that it bothers you. And when you say let them, you're acknowledging the situation and you're almost saying, I'm above it and I'm permitting this because I see it happening. And then something really interesting happens because you're no longer all worked up about what they're doing, you are forced to look back at yourself. Let them. If my friends are going out to brunch and they didn't invite me and it bothers me that much, and I'm just going to let them do it instead of sitting here stewing about it, what do I need to take responsibility for?

You're toxic.

Yes, probably. Or I don't ever invite anybody out. Or if I want more experiences with my friends, I should be the one organizing everybody to go out to brunch. Or maybe my friends can just go out and I don't have to always be included and it doesn't have to mean anything. And maybe I've got work to do with therapy. And so what happens is, as you start to use, let them to lower your expectations, to stop focusing on other people and what they're doing, it forces you to take responsibility for what you want in your life.

Linked to that was this thing that I found, which people just loved when you said it, which was, you should stay in your peace and stay in your power.

Yes.

And it sounds somewhat correlated to that.

Very much so. So when you start using it, you will notice how often you get agitated or frustrated by what other people are doing. And it's strangers in a coffee shop, it's your relatives. It's like we were just in a situation here in the states for Thanksgiving where we were down visiting my parents, and they're in a place that's small, so we had a place that we had to rent so that we could all kind of be together, but it wasn't that close. And every time it was a moment where it was, are we going to their house? Are we going to our house? And somebody had an expectation about where we should be normally, the old mal would get hooked right into that person. I'd just be like, let them. That person. The people in your life are allowed to have their emotional reactions, and it's not your responsibility to manage their emotional reactions. Part of the reason why we get hooked into these toxic dynamics with people is because you're part of the dynamic. Somebody does something that triggers you, you go right in, you start to change how you show up, you start to compensate, you start to people please, or you get all mad and angry and next thing you know, it erupts and it's the same thing, thing over and over and over again.

And you wonder why it never changes. Well, part of the reason why is that person's never going to change. You cannot control that, but you can change the energy you're putting into the dynamic.

When you were asked what was the worst advice you were ever given, do you remember what you said?

I do not. What is it?

You said, the worst advice I've ever received is that someone else can make you happy.

Oh, it's so true. It's so true. Money can't make you happy, someone else can't make you happy.

And it's correlated to what you were just saying there.

In a way, it's very correlated, because a lot of us are putting our energy into trying to push other people to show up a certain way. When, if you were to pull all that energy back and conserve it for yourself, you suddenly start taking responsibility and you have more energy to take the steps and to change the way that you think so that you can have what you want in your life. And there are exceptions. Look, you're not just going to let somebody get behind the wheel of a car if they've been drinking. So if it's dangerous, if it's self destructive, if it's discriminatory, you have to step in, in my opinion, and do something. But here's the rub. Hold the intervention with your friend who is an addict. Offer to pay for the treatment center if you can afford to do so. But then you have to let them do what they're going to do. It makes the responsibility of how you show up entirely on you, which means you are now operating based on your values and based on what you want in your life and based on the kind of person that you want to be, not because you're doing it out of obligation or manipulation or that sort of transactional nature that we get into with people.

It seems to be both selfish and selfless at the same time. In a way.

I don't think it's selfish at all, really. I actually think it's one of the most generous things you could do. How is not controlling other people a selfish thing to do? I'm not saying I don't care. I'm saying I'm aware that you are a independent human being with his own feelings and his own life path and his own values and expectations. And when I step in and try to fix everything for you or change how you feel, I actually rob you of both the breakdowns that you need. I rob you of the responsibility that you need to take. And I don't own the part of the equation. In every relationship, every relationship has an energetic exchange. I do something and now you are going to react, and are you going to react based on what's aligned for you, or are you going to react as a way to try to change how I am?

Taking that hook out, though, feels like it serves you in a profound way as well, which is the selfish part of the equation. It doesn't feel selfish, but over the long term, it's going to serve you. So it is an act of self preservation or taking care of oneself.

Yeah.

And I also feel like there's a healthy dose of curiosity in this because it's going to reveal all the things in your life that really bother you, because right now you're distracting yourself by being upset about other people instead of pulling that energy back in and going, oh, well, if it really bothers me that my sister in law never comes to visit me, then I clearly care about this relationship. And so do I care about me being right and them always coming to me? Do I care about tit for tat, or do I actually just care about building a good relationship with somebody? This is also extraordinarily effective. If you're dealing with somebody that has any toxic tendencies, any narcissistic traits, like when you look at the research around, especially narcissism, and the fact that people are not born that way, they're made that way, and it's highly unlikely that they're changing based on the supply that they constantly need. When you go, let them. I'm going to see what's coming. I'm going to anticipate what's coming. I am going to let them have their tantrum, which is what typically happens, and I'm going to go into this wide open.

I'm not going to allow myself to get triggered by it because I am saying, I know who this person is, I know what's going to happen. I've been in this dynamic for years, and I'm going to let them do what they do. And when that happens, you also kind of. It's almost like emotional force field. Do you think a lot of parents make the mistake of forcing their kids to do things that they like instead of letting their kids be themselves? Yes.

Yes, yes. I think a lot of parents. Sports is a big one. I mean, I think it's. Sports is def. I'm not a parent, so I can't really speak on this. But, like, I think it's like, there are a lot of life lessons and values in, like, making your kids play sports. But, like, our parents made Oakley play literally. I literally played everything under the sun, from gymnastics to diving to soccer to lacrosse. And, like, he would play every single sport for half a season. He hated every single one of them. And my parents would pull him out and be like, what do you want to try next? And he would tell them, and, I mean, you can speak on this more because this was your experience. But I think a lot of parents, like, what I was going to say in general is, like, I think there what you guys have mastered is, like, you brought us into the world, not so you could live through us, but so we could be our own people. And you have mastered the art of, like, teetering between letting us be our own person and not being a fuck up.

And I think a lot of parents bring their kids into the world so they can live through them. And in doing that, make them play soccer until their bones are aching. Make them get straight a's because that's what they wish they would do. Make them do this. Make them do that until, like, they don't even know who the fuck they are by the time they're 22. And obviously they're not connected to their parents, then they don't know who they are. But you guys and what I think a lot of you guys listening to this podcast, what I would advise you to do is, like, figure out how it feels for you and what it looks like for you to bring somebody into the world so they can be their own person, not so you can make them be somebody that you wish you might have been. Mic drop. That was phenomenal.

Boom. Yeah, that basically was it. I have something so cool to share with you, and I know you're going to love it because I shared something called the let them theory in an Instagram post less than a week ago, and I just looked it up. There are over 14 million views of this thing, which always tells me when something goes that viral that it strikes a nerve. And in this post, it's just a quick selfie video. And I'm explaining what's called the let them theory. It is a game changer, and that's what we're going to talk about in today's episode. But to just tee this up, since this went so viral, I want you to hear what I said in this selfie video on Instagram. Check this out. I just heard about this thing called the let them theory. I freaking love this. If your friends are not inviting you out to brunch this weekend, let them. If the person that you're really attracted to is not interested in a commitment, let them. If your kids do not want to get up and go to that thing with you this week, let them. So much time and energy is wasted on forcing other people to match our expectations.

And the truth is, if somebody, especially somebody you're dating or who's a friend or somebody you're trying to partner with in business, if they are not showing up how you need them to show up, do not try to force them to change. Let them be themselves because they are revealing who they are to you. Just let them. And then you get to choose what you do next. The let them theory, it's so obvious. And once you learn it, you are going to use it so many times a day, you will. It's just going to blow your mind because the let them theory is going to allow you to detach yourself from the things that cause a lot of struggle and angst and emotion to come up when you get controlling. The let them theory also allows you to let go of the reins and give space for other people to take responsibility. Let them do it. And finally, what you're gonna learn is that the let them theory, it is incredible because when you let somebody just be who they actually are and you stop trying to make them something else, you realize in so many friendships and so many relationships, you actually are in love with their potential.

You're not in a relationship with who the person really is. And you've been so busy controlling and trying to change them that you don't even recognize that you're in a relationship with their potential. And when you let somebody be who they actually are, wow. It allows you to understand who you're actually dealing with. So I can give you a quick example of the let them theory in play because it works for things big and small. And I will tell you, this is something that I have to use all the time. Just this weekend, it was our son Oakley's prom. He's a junior in high school. And here we are in southern Vermont. And I'm used to doing prom a certain way because we raised our daughters outside of Boston in a suburban town. They're also daughters. So they were more controlling. They were organizing everything. It was a community where I knew all the families, all the kids. The traditions were locked in. Everybody knows everybody else. And so here we are in this new town in southern Vermont and Oakley's going to the prom with somebody we, we've never met, don't know her parents, we don't know any of the traditions here.

And it doesn't seem like there are a lot of them, honestly. But one of the traditions that was present is that there were girls that were organizing groups of people to come to their house for pre palm photos. So we go to this person's house and it was really great, great to meet everybody. Didn't know a soul there. We get there and I'm standing there with Oakley and it starts to rain. And not just rain, it is like a torrential downpour, the kind of storm where you go that really sucks. You know, it really sucks. Like you are going to look like you have taken a shower if you walk out the front door of this house and try to walk 20ft through this rain to get to your car. That's how hard it was, pouring rain. And so they're standing there and it's about 05:00 at night. Prom starts at seven and the kids start talking. So what do you want to do for dinner? And I look at Oakley and I say, you guys don't have a reservation somewhere? He goes, no. And I then said, well, what are you going to do?

Do you want me to call? And I start then jumping in, right. And over functioning with my anxiety, which we have talked about before on this podcast, the do do. And the kids are kind of gathering around and somebody goes, well, why don't we go to avocado pit now? Avocado pit, just to put this in context, is this amazing little amazing taco place, right? It's got maybe six tables in it. It's tiny. It's like the size of one stall of a garage. So we're talking one car parking place and there are 20 kids in tuxedos and long dresses dressed to the nines. It is a torrential downpour outside and their plans for prom are to go to a fast casual joint in the center of town that could maybe have six of them standing inside. And I immediately start going, you can't go to avocado pit, you're gonna get wit. What about I am controlling. I'm that person. And my daughter turns to me and she says, mom, if they wanna go to avocado pit, let them. It's his prom. It's not your prom. Let them. And when she said, let them, it's as if I just went, hands off.

It was this little cue that was like, okay, you're doing that thing. Just turn from controlling everything, Mel, and let the current of what's happening take you in a different direction. And immediately, what happens when you adopt the let them theory is that you are able to catch yourself when you're controlling people. And you don't need to be. You are able to drop into a more surrender, peaceful feeling instead of letting your emotions rev you up. And it kind of begs the question, right? Because I've been thinking about this. Why did the let them theory, why is it so resonant for people? Why did 14 million people in a matter of a week, watch and share that video? Well, I'll tell you why. It's because every single one of us struggles with controlling behavior, or we struggle with controlling thoughts. And the let them theory is a way that you can check yourself so that you're controlling nature, or your controlling or obsessive thoughts don't control you. Because the reason why we do this, we control other people, or we just can't let it go. Like, have you ever been in a situation where maybe your buddies organize a golf trip and they don't include you or the women in your life go away for a weekend and you're not invited?

Or a friend. A friend that you adore is dating a real asshole, somebody who's horrible for them. Let them. I mean, how much does you worrying about it? How, how is that going to change anything? It's not. How does spending 200 hours talking to your friend about this horrible person over and over and over? How does that, how it doesn't let them. If somebody's firing you, let them. If your company's going through layoffs, let them. It is so liberating when you drop the sword, when you just let go. And there's this really interesting analogy that's going to help you. That comes from a psychologist. I've got a ton of notes for this. You're going to hear me doing my notes because I want to get this right, because there's so many tools, because this does not come naturally to us. And I'm gonna explain why there's a psychologist, Doctor Amy Johnson, who uses this example, and I think we can keep coming back to this visual when you tip into that control mode and we all do it. I mean, come on, you can kind of go, oh, God, Mel, let the kids get a burrito, for crying out loud.

But don't you dare tell me that if the roles were reversed, you wouldn't have questioned the decision to not have a reservation, first of all, before promoting, and secondly, to then want to go to some burrito bar right in the middle of a rainstorm. But I digress. Here is the visual from Doctor Amy Johnson. She says, whenever you go into control mode, imagine that you are in a tiny, tiny boat and you're paddling upstream. You are paddling against the current. It is hard to paddle against the current. It is a fight. That is what it feels like when you're controlling other people, right? Or you're trying to control them. That's what it felt like for me at this pre palm party because as these kids are casually talking about driving over to the avocado pit and grabbing a bite to eat, I've got my oars and I'm fighting against that current. And I'm like, but, but, but you should have had other things. But what about this? But you're gonna get your, your, your date's gonna get her dressed wet. Ba ba ba da da da da da da da da. What the fuck, Mel?

So what Doctor Johnson says is that when you catch yourself doing it, you are fighting against the current. You are literally paddling up emotion inside of you and resistance and frustration. Because it's frustrating when you can't control the people around you, right? It's frustrating. It doesn't create more control. It actually makes you feel less in control. What she says is you must let go and surrender. And so she'll visualize just hands off the oars, drop the oars. And what happens is the boat in that situation, what does it do? It turns around, and instead of going upstream, when you drop the oars, the boat naturally just floats downstream with the current of how things are going. And you will notice the same thing, that instead of fighting what's happening, you are able to drop the oars and just surrender to what's going on, which creates peace and ease for you. Because does it matter if Oakley and his friends want to go to the avocado pit? Of course not. Who gives a shit? In fact, it might be the most memorable part of prom. Standing in the pouring rain, all of them crowded in this restaurant, ordering tacos before the thing and so the bigger point here is I don't think any of us are aware of just how much energy and effort and time we waste on shit that we're trying to control.

And the let them theory is a lever that you can pull so you can create more peace and ease and love and all of it in your life, so you can float with the current of things instead of battling it so far. And the reason why we have this controlling nature is, believe it or not, it's a form of anxiety. When you are overbearing on people, maybe you're an overbearing parent. We have a lot of people who write into this show whose parents are immigrants to the United States, and they were completely overbearing. Why? Well, because of two reasons. Number one, they probably had a lot of fears. There was a lot of uncertainty. They wanted you to succeed. They wanted you to fit in. They wanted you to have the best of everything and more opportunities than they did. And so they pushed you and pushed you and pushed you and pushed you. And the second reason why people do that is because they think it's a form of love. That if I push you, if I look out for the best for you, if I think about all the things that could go wrong and I micromanage you, don't forget your umbrella, don't forget your lunch.

Do this, do that, be this kind of major that you think you are looking out for the best for somebody, but what you're actually doing is you're suffocating people. The second reason why we are also controlling and why you need the, the let them theory is because it's easier to focus on other people. You trick yourself into thinking that you're going to be in control if you can control other people. It doesn't work that way because you can't control other people. You can manipulate them, you can guilt them, you can shame them, you can compliment them, you can love them, but you can't control them. Okay? You can just try to. The person that you can control is yourself. And every time you use the let them theory, you immediately reverse the focus of that control on everybody else and you turn it back on yourself. I'll give you an example of that. Let's say that your friends have gone away this weekend, okay? And your feelings are hurt if you sit there and worry about it. Why did they left me out? I feel left out. I'm always left out. What did I do wrong?

Ba ba ba ba ba. Maybe I should text them. Maybe I should say something. Maybe I should. No, you know what you should do? You should let them go away. You should let them go away. And you should stop focusing on what they're doing, because all this obsessing about it and thinking about what you need to do in order to control what's happening, it's not working. And secondly, it's distracting you from what you really need to do, which is put the focus back on yourself as you're sitting there, ask yourself, well, if I'm this upset by it, what do I need to do to make sure that I am proactive about friendships, that I'm the one organizing these things? That's where the real power is. And finally, the reason why we engage in such controlling behavior and these obsessive thoughts is because oftentimes it distracts us from the truth. Oftentimes when you are, you know, I stop and think a little bit about this situation with Oakley and the prom. And it's really dumb, but there's a very deep underlying thing that was going on. I've gone through four prom experiences with our daughters in a public high school outside of Boston.

And it was not like the prom here. And I think all of the things that felt unfamiliar reminded me that I'm in a new place. We got home from that pre prom photo party. I turned to Chris and I said, you know, I'm really kind of sad because I miss knowing all the kids, and I miss knowing all the parents, and I miss seeing kids that I have known since they were in diapers, all grown up in Texas. And I think I'm just kind of sad. And I'm controlling where Oakley is going to eat because that was something that was always part of the prom experience back home. And so a lot of times, the controlling or the obsessing is triggered by the way you think things should be or the way that you're used to things being, and you're uncomfortable with the uncertainty, which is why you jump in and you do this. And so that's where the let them theory comes in. Let's go to Liz in New Jersey. Liz, you're on with Mel Robbins.

Hi, Mel. Great to talk to you, too. I'm a big fan. My question for you today is, I have dealt with this lately. Actually, very recently, my parents have gone into a terrible financial crisis due to my father's gambling. And I had to take a backseat to it all. I had to put some distance, like about a few weeks. But every day in those few weeks, I felt like tightening in my chest. I felt like I didn't know what to do. So I finally wrote them each a separate letter, begging them to, you know, try to get some help. As soon as I hit the send button on that letter, I felt better immediately.

Why do you think?

I guess cause I spoke my piece. I spoke my truth.

Yeah. You're not responsible for your father's gambling addiction, and you're not responsible for rescuing your mother from it. They're grown ass adults. And even though you feel like the parent instead of the child in this situation, and even though you love them and your heart aches for them, and you know that any addiction is just masking a deeper issue that your father hasn't dealt with and that your mom and dad haven't dealt with in your marriage, it's not your responsibility to bail them out. It's not your responsibility to change it. It's not your responsibility to do anything except to love them and to be there, however it is that you can be there to offer support or offer recommendations. But when we step in and feel the responsibility for bailing somebody else out, we also rescue them from and we rob them of the opportunity to face the things they didn't face. That's why your father has a gambling addiction, because he has some sort of trauma or some sort of deeper issue that he is avoiding by the rush of gambling. And you not running in and making this your problem to solve might just be the thing that has your dad face what he has not been able to face to this point.

And so I'm really proud of you, and I'm not surprised that you felt better sending them a letter and letting them be in the mess that they've created and letting you be with the truth that you feel. And, you know, the truth is you're there to support them, right? You know, you're going to be there to pick up the call or to guide them in the right direction or help them with a Google search, but you're not there to fix this, and that's a beautiful, beautiful distinction. Let's go to Mimi in Canada. Mimi, thank you so much for holding so long.

Hi, this is Mimi here.

Hi.

I started listening to you, everything that you had to say, and it has really changed my life. And, you know, this let them theory has helped me so much. I was in a very dark place. It was very uncomfortable, and. But now I see that the other person sees that it's not affecting me. So they're going, like, up a notch every time to try to get a reaction out of me. So, like, how long do you let them. So, like, I know it's not affecting me, but then if you're living with that person, twenty four seven, and they have to use your special needs child, try to manipulate you because they don't want to see you succeed. And, you know, now I've also put my foot down and, like, you know what? I don't care. I'm not going to let anybody, anything affect me. But then if somebody's 24/7 drilling that to your mind in the background, you know, the background noise, yeah, it does have an effect.

So can I ask you a question? Let me. Let me ask you a question. So is this a family member or a spouse or who is this?

We've been, like, separated, but because I'm not yet financially stable, so we're sharing the same house, but that's where the abuse is. And, you know, last year I hit my all time low. I started getting my life together, my body together, my mind together, and now I just launched my business last week and I'm so proud of myself, but that makes the other person uncomfortable, of course. Do you want to break me, Mimi? Because they want to have me and torture me.

Mimi, where else can you live?

Nowhere. This is all I have yet.

I love the yet. I love the yet. Wait, are you telling me you have no friends, you don't have family in Canada that you can live with?

Uh, I don't want to.

Okay, so, so hold on, hold on, hold on. When I said, who else do you have? You said nothing. This is it. And so I need to be very clear with you that you are choosing to stay in a living situation where somebody is beating you down. And when you answered, I could, I have family, but I don't want to live there. You need to own the choice. And so if you're going to own the choice, that you're going to live in the same physical household with the person you're divorcing, who is beating you down every day. You need to own it loud and proud. You need to start saying, I could go live with my parents, but I don't want to, and I'm not going to. And I know when I walk in that door, that jerk is going to say something really mean to me because he's hurt and he's immature and he doesn't know how to else to do it, and I'm just going to let him say it and I'm going to ignore him and I'm going to go into my room and I'm going to shut the door and at some point he might start yelling, and I'm going to let him.

But I need you to understand that that's screwed up, that you are staying in a situation where you're with somebody who is beating you down. I would rather see you and your special needs child move out, move in with your family, get into a situation where that is not your day to day reality. Because the fact is, while you're in the same apartment going through a divorce, if he has already started acting out, it's just going to escalate. This doesn't get better. And so please, I want you to consider there are other options. And you moving out might just be what changes the dynamic.

Okay?

What do you think?

I was just waiting till I'm financially stable because family accepting a special needs child, people change. I have lived the reality. I know it sounds good to have a supporting family, but there's only so much others can do and you don't want to be a burden on them. That's why I'm like every day, working.

Hold on. You're not a burden. You are not a burden if you go to your family and say, can I move home for six months while I save some money and get my own place, that's not you being a burden. That is you as an adult asking for help in a situation where you need help. And. And they're either going to say yes or no. But even so, in asking, you are signaling to yourself, I'm not stuck here. I can create other options for myself. Heck, there might even be another woman that lives near you that's looking for a roommate that has a special needs son that's trying to get a divorce. Like you don't know because you're not asking. And so I want you to continue to use the let them theory to not get hooked by your x, who is going to continue to escalate because that's how he has always controlled you in the past. He can't control you anymore, which means he's getting more pissed off. That's exactly what you should expect. And now let me, meaning let me find another option here. Let me use my brain and get myself out of this stupid situation.

Let me find a temporary living situation that's a little bit better while I get on my feet. Let me ask for help. Let me start problem solving. Let me take responsibility for putting myself and my special needs son in a better place, and stop telling yourself the story that it can't happen. I so believe in you. I'm proud of you. Based on everything that you have done in the last year, to pull yourself out of that dark place and get yourself moving again and get this business launched, there is no doubt in my mind you have within you the ability to make this better, too. And you will. Eva, welcome. You're on the Mel Robbins podcast.

Hi, Mel. I'm just excited to talk to you. I want to know if you can give me tips or advice on how I can get my husband on board with the theory. I think it would help him not have hang up about what other people do or really think. I think sometimes he overthinks, like, oh, people don't invite me to lunch or, you know, my coworkers or family. You know, he feels excluded. I'm trying to figure out how to get him involved or adopt this theory for himself.

Yeah, it's a great question because the example that you used with your husband is one we can all relate to. You see other people going out, you're not invited, and then you start to spiral, and it become more painful because you start to tell yourself, nobody likes me, and I must have done something wrong, and these people are jerks. And so it just builds and builds and builds. And the thing is that the let them theory works because of a fundamental fact about relationships. And that fundamental fact is you can't force anyone else to change or to do something. You can try. You can try with manipulation, with pushing, with pleading, with trying to be inspiring. But at the end of the day, somebody only does something because they want to do something. Tell me more about why you're worried about your husband and the stress or the pain he's causing himself by being focused on other people's drama or what they're doing.

I just feel like he over. Sometimes I just feel like he's overthinking it. And I tell him, like, I think you're thinking about it more than what they're. Like you're thinking about them more than they are thinking about. About you or why they don't, why you're not included.

Yeah, well, tell me more, though, about, like, conversation. It's a con. So he. So it's stirring up his insecurity.

Exactly. I listen, and I'm okay with listening, but I just feel like.

We'Re not.

Doing any different, anything different. Like, it's always the same thing or pattern with either colleagues or family members. That's always. I've noticed that's the theme. Like, that conversation comes up sometimes when we're just talking, and then it'll pop up.

Well, this is very relatable, because whether you're dealing with a husband who gets himself all worked up about what family's doing or work colleagues are doing or friends are doing, or you're dealing with a child who feels left out at school, or you're dealing with a friend who feels, you know, like somebody just broke up with them and it's never going to work out for them, the stories that you tell yourself are way more painful than the actual thing that's happening. And the danger here and you're witnessing it happening is your husband is now stuck in this pattern that people leave him out, and he's stuck in this pattern of seeing all the places where he doesn't belong. And part of the reason why these patterns are so painful is you get stuck in the pattern and you don't realize you actually have the power to change this dynamic. What you said earlier is also true, that he's thinking about it more than the people who are out to lunch, because you know what? They're not thinking about him at all because they didn't invite him to lunch. And so the fact that your husband is wasting time and causing himself pain by constantly focusing on all the places where he hasn't been invited or the fact that his, you know, siblings are getting together and they didn't ask him, and all this stuff, it just creates internal agita.

And so here's how you get someone else to consider something, because you can't force him. Like, you can't tie him down to the bed and put earphones on him and force him to listen to Mel Robbins. Even if you did that, he wouldn't absorb it. So it's not going to work. But you could say to him, I'm concerned about you. I'm concerned about you because I'm seeing this pattern where you're focused on all of the people and the places where you're not invited or you're not seen or you're not respected, and it's becoming a pattern. And I don't want this for you. You're a much more powerful person. You deserve more in your life. And I just listened to this podcast with this woman that has 10 million followers, and I think you'd get a lot out of this chick. And I think this thing that she talks about called the let them theory, I think it might help you find your power and not get so pissed off about this petty, stupid stuff. And if you appeal to his greater self, and if you appeal to the fact that you want more for him, that might inspire him to see more for himself and to listen to the episode.

That's how I would do it, and I would appeal to the pain he's feeling and the fact that you want more for him and that you realize you can't fix this for him. This is something he has to do for himself. But here's what you're going to do. You're going to send him this podcast from this cool chick that will really make him think about this. And second, the next time he talks about this again, you're just going to say, let them as a cue, and it's going to get really annoying because you're not going to engage in the conversation anymore. You're done with the conversation because the conversation's not changing anything. And so you're not going to engage with it with him. And that's what you're going to do because that's what you can control. And this is how the let them theory works. You are going to let your husband get upset about what his siblings are doing. You are going to say let them to him after you've already provided the support of the podcast episode. And then you're going to let your husband be mad that you said let them. And then you're going to let him, like, continue to bitch about what's going on, because only your husband can fix this.

And what I want to applaud you for is that you care so much about him that you want this because you can see how much pain it's causing him. And the fact is, if we all stopped complaining about what's not working or what other people were do are doing or not doing or including us in or not, if we stopped doing that, we would find a lot of free time to make plans with people that we want to hang out with. And that's what's also available here. So I want to thank you for asking that question because it is so relatable. I wish you and your husband the best of luck. Thank you for shoving that episode, Adam, and seeing if he'll take a listen to it and you not participating anymore and letting him sit in his misery, that's going to intensify the fire and might actually motivate him to do something about it. Thanks for calling. All righty, everybody. That's all we got time for today. I want to remind you that if you're looking for the original let them theory episode, where I explain it in detail, I give you multiple examples of how to start using it.

I talk about the three really important exceptions for when it doesn't apply. That episode is linked in all the show notes. You can find our show notes melrobbins.com podcast for this episode. And look, the thing that's so cool about the let them theory is that when you realize that the art of letting other people being themselves is the pathway to you actually being responsible for your own life and being fully yourself, that's what the magic's all about. And that's why everybody's talking about this thing and using it.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you. You know, you called me the master of motivation, and I think motivation is complete garbage. So maybe we should start there.

That is a perfect place to start. So I totally agree with you, but why do you say that? I do 100% now, I said that in the spirit of I know what you're trying to do, so it is meant with absolute reverence. But why do you say that it's garbage?

Well, and we'll talk a lot about this, but I think it's garbage because at some point, we all bought into this lie that you gotta feel ready in order to change. We bought into this complete falsehood that at some point you're gonna have the courage, at some point you're gonna have the confidence. And it's total bullshit, frankly. Are we allowed to swear on this? Okay, it's complete garbage. And so there are so many people in the world, and, you know, you may be watching this right now, and you have these incredible ideas, and what you think is missing is motivation. And that's not true. Because the way that our minds are wired and the fact about human beings is that we are not designed to do things that are uncomfortable or scary or difficult. Our brains are designed to protect us from those things. Because our brains are trying to keep us alive. And in order to change, in order to build a business, in order to be the best parent, the best spouse, to do all those things, things that you know you want to do with your life, with your work, with your dreams, you're going to have to do things that are difficult, uncertain, or scary, which sets up this problem for all of us.

You're never going to feel like it. Motivation's garbage. You only feel motivated to do the things that are easy. Right?

Why do you think that is?

Oh, I know exactly why that is. Because I've studied this so much. Because for me, one of the hardest things to figure out was why is it so hard to do the little things that would improve my life? And what I've come to realize and what we'll talk a lot about today. Is that the way that our minds are designed is our minds are designed to stop you at all costs from doing anything that might hurt you. And the way that. That this all happens is it all starts with something super subtle that none of us ever catch. And that is with this habit that all of us have that nobody's talking about. We all have a habit of hesitating. We have an idea. You're sitting in a meeting, you have this incredible idea, and instead of just, you know, saying it, you stop and you hesitate. Now, what none of us realize is that when you hesitate, just that moment, that micro moment, that small hesitation, it sends a stress signal to your brain. It wakes your brain up, and your brain all of a sudden goes, oh, wait a minute. Why is he hesitating?

He didn't hesitate when he put on his killer spiky sneakers. He didn't hesitate with the really cool track pants. He didn't hesitate with the NASA t shirt. Now he's hesitating to talk. Something must be up. So then your brain goes to work to protect you. It has a million different ways to protect you. One of them is called the spotlight effect. It's a known phenomenon where your brain magnifies risk. Why? To pull you away from something that it perceives to be a problem. And so you can truly trace every single problem or complaint in your life to silence and hesitation. Those are decisions. And what I do and what's changed my life is waking up and realizing that motivation's garbage. I'm never going to feel like doing the things that are tough or difficult or uncertain or scary or new. So I need to stop waiting until I feel like it. And number two, I am one decision away from a totally different marriage, a totally different life, a totally different job, a totally different income, a totally different relationship with my kids. Not like one decision, I'm divorcing you in the marriage example. But one decision on, you know, you could be having a conversation with your spouse, and you feel your emotions rise up.

And within a tiny window, those emotions can take over and can impact how your marriage goes. Or you can learn how to take control of that micro moment and make a decision to act in a way that actually shifts your marriage. Your life comes down to your decision, and if you change your decisions, you will change everything. Yeah.

I mean, that core concept comes through so powerfully in your book, which is phenomenal. And I would love it if you would take a second to tell people the story of how and by the way I wore the NASA shirt because of the. Oh, is that why you wore it? Of course.

Oh, my God. I'm, like, falling my glasses off. That is. I did not even get that. I was going to ask you why you wore that shirt. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

So you actually do your homework? Oh, of course. No, absolutely.

Okay, so let me just take you back.

So what you're talking about is the five second rule, which has become literally my life's work, and it was all a gigantic mistake. I read up on you, too, and understand how quest like was born out of misery. The five second rule and my life now and my 20 year marriage and everything that I'm doing and the companies that I've built and sold and the company I'm building now, it all comes back to a point in my life that completely and utterly blew. I was 41 years old. I was unemployed. My husband had started a restaurant business, which was his dream. This is actually a funny story. When he got laid off from a big job in high tech, and I think it was really relieved. You know how a lot of us wait to quit our jobs, and then we get laid off, and we're like, yes. And he said, I'm not gonna look for a job. I'm gonna go into the restaurant business. And I think I said the most famous lines of our marriage at that point. I looked at him and I said, listen, buddy, inspiration is for strangers. You get your butt back to that job, and you pay the mortgage.

And again, micro moment where I'm being a jerk instead of being a supportive wife. But that's an example of where, when he said he was not gonna go get a job, but he was gonna start a business, the first thing that.

Was there was fear, right?

And so fear was making the decision for me.

God, I love that you can share that, though. That's so powerful.

Well, so what happened is, the first restaurant was a home run, and, of course, what do you do when things are successful?

You grow it. You grow it really big.

And so they decided to raise some money, and we threw in our home equity line, the kids college savings. They tried to open a second and a third, and at the same point, a grocery store chain encouraged them to go into wholesale. So it basically got way too big, way too fast, and the wheels started to come off, and they came off so badly that the second restaurant failed, and they held onto it for too long, like a lot of us do. It's another trick our brains play on us called sunk costs. When you throw a ton of time and a ton of money at something, it's really hard to let go of it. And if you haven't done it in business, we all have. A relationship in our past stayed way too long. That was a trick your brain played on you. So by the time that they closed the second restaurant, it was an $800,000 loss.

Ooh.

I don't. I mean, that meant our entire home equity line gone.

Right?

It meant kids college. I get just choked up just thinking about how terrifying it was. And so I found myself at the age of 41, like, just feeling like a complete failure, and so did Chris. And to make it worse, not only had we lost all of our savings, but so many friends and family members had invested. And so there was this real tension between the truth of what was happening and what you had to do in public, because it was public business. Shame, failure, embarrassment. And the liens started to hit the house. The phone started to ring, and it was nothing but collection calls. And I just remember feeling this tremendous shame. And at some point, I think we all hit that moment in life where things just are not going how you thought they would go. And what's amazing about those moments is we all respond very differently. So my husband, he would spring out of bed, and he would head right out that door, 06:00 in the morning, and he would go meet his partner.

And they would go to the bank.

And they would dig right in, and they would face their problems head on. And he's also a smart guy. I mean, he did not want to be in the house when yours truly woke up, because I was a raging bitch at that point in our lives. And the reason why is because when you're scared and you're afraid and you're jealous and you're overwhelmed with emotion, it is so much easier to point the finger at other people. That's a decision, by the way, one you may not be aware that you're making, but you're still making it. So what would happen to me is the exact opposite is Chris would be gone, the alarm would go off at 06:00 in the morning, and I would lie there, and I would think about the lien on the house, and I would think about the bankruptcy that we were facing, and I would think about how much we had fought the night before, and I would think about the fact that I was unemployed, and I would hit the snooze button. I mean, why would you get up when your life is like that? Why would you? I mean, I needed confidence.

I needed courage. I was so tapped out. And, you know, in the scheme of life, hitting the snooze button is not that big of a deal. But here's the thing about life. None of us wake up and say, today is the day I destroy my life. What we do is we kind of check out because it feels overwhelming, or we check out because we're afraid, or we check out because we start listening to self doubt. And then we make these teeny, tiny decisions all day long, and we don't even realize it. Decision to not get up on time. A decision to not eat the right thing. A decision to snap at your kids. A decision to not speak in a meeting. A decision to not look for a job. A decision to not deal with your finances. A decision to not call your parent, like, whatever it is, all day long. These tiny decisions that take you so far off track. And then you wake up, like I did, and you look at your life and you think, how the hell did I get here? And more importantly, how do you get back over there?

And you have no idea.

And so I was so trapped. And I know from your story you felt the same way. Like, you knew that there was more in store for you, but you couldn't figure out, how do you close that gap? How do you find the power that's in you? How do you discover your greatness? How do you solve these problems? It feels so overwhelming when you can't. I mean, I would go to the grocery store and the items would scan, and I would be sitting there readying my excuse because there was no way that my check card was going to clear.

Wow.

So I got in this struggle with myself that a lot of us find ourselves in. And that is, you get trapped in what I call the knowledge action gap. You know what to do, but you can't seem to make yourself do it right. I mean, every one of us is one Google search away from a list of instructions that if you follow any of them, it will change your life. But how do you get out of your head and stop thinking about what you need to do and actually do it? And in my case, this stuff was pretty easy. Get up on time, make breakfast for the kids, get them on the bus. Start looking for a job. Be nicer to Chris. Don't drink so much. Instead of isolating yourself, pick up the phone and call a friend. Get yourself out into the woods and go for a walk. Start running again. Like all these little things that I was capable of, but I couldn't get out of here. Could not get out of here. And if you're stuck, that's the problem. The problem is you're in your head, you're thinking, that is the universal problem.

And it all starts with this knowledge of what to do. And then you hesitate, and you think about whether or not you feel like doing it. So for a couple months, I was really stuck. I would, Chris would get up at six, I'd hit the snooze, and then I'd hit the snooze, and then I'd hit the snooze. The kids would miss the bus, and then every night, I'd do the same thing. I'd go in bed. Have you ever had one of those nights? Probably before you started your company. But where you go in bed and you're like, all right, Tom, that's it. Tomorrow, it's the new me.

Tomorrow.

Tomorrow I'm gonna get up on time. I am gonna go to the gym. I am gonna look for a job. I'm not gonna drink so much. It's gonna be amazing. The new me.

The future me. Woo.

Let's do this right.

Then you go to bed, and you.

Wake up 7 hours later, and you're like, I don't feel like the new me. It's the only. That's the stupidest. See, motivation's garbage. It's never there when you need it. Ever, ever, ever. And so here's what happened to me. And thank you for wearing the NASA t shirt.

Of course.

It's a really stupid story.

It's a powerful story.

So one night, Chris had gone to bed. I'd been struggling, struggling, struggling. We still had all the same problems. We still had a lien on the house, still facing bankruptcy, still fighting like crazy. I was still unemployed. He still. They still hadn't figured out, like, the solution yet for the business. And I was about to turn off the tv, and there on the. The tv, there was this rocket launching. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that is it. I am going to launch myself out.

Of bed like a rocket ship.

Like NASA right here had launched me out of that bed, and I'm going to move so fast that I don't think I'm going to beat my brain. Now, here's a really interesting point. I talk a lot about your instincts and inner wisdom, and we can get into this a little bit later. But a lot of us talk about the fact that you have a gut feeling. But what all this research that I've done for the book and all the speaking that I do, what I've discovered that's fascinating is actually when you set goals, when you have an intention on something that you want to change about your life, your brain helps you. What it does is it opens up a checklist, and then your brain goes to work trying to remind you of that intention that you set. And it's really important to develop the skill. And I say that word purposefully, the skill of knowing how to hear that inner wisdom and that intention kicking in and leaning into it quickly. So for me, my brain saying, that's it right there. Move as fast as a rocket. Mel, I wanted to change my life.

And I think most people that are miserable or that are, that are really, like, dying to be great and dying to have more, we want to change. We want to live a better life. We want to create more for our families. We want to be happier. The desire is there again. It's about, how do you go from knowledge to action? So the first thing in this story that's important is realizing that the answer was in me. And my mind was telling me, pay attention. It could have also been the bourbon. I had a couple of Manhattans that night. Anyway, the next morning, the alarm goes off, and I pretended NASA was there. It's the stupidest story. I literally went 54321. I counted out loud, and then I stood up. And I'll never forget standing there in my bedroom. It was dark, it was cold. It was winter in Boston. And for the first time in three months, I had beaten my habit of hitting the snooze button. I couldn't believe it. And I thought, wait a minute. Counting backwards, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Well, the next morning I used it again, and it worked.

The next morning I used it again, and it worked. The next morning I used it again, and it worked. And then I started to notice something really interesting. There were moments. All day long, all day long, just like that five second moment in bed where I knew knowledge, what I should do. And if I didn't move within 5 seconds, my brain would step in and talk me out of it. Every human being has a five second window. It might even be shorter for you. You have about a five second window in which you can move from idea to action before your brain kicks into full gear and sabotages any change in behavior. Because remember, your brain is wired to stop you from doing things that are uncomfortable or uncertain or scary. It's your job to learn how to move from those ideas that could change everything into acting on them in the smallest moment.

And for anyone right now, at home, who's thinking like this? Sounds too simple, too easy. Talk a bit about your community, because reading some of their comments, it's crazy how many people like the sheer volume of people you quote in your book. But if you also go online and just look at the people that are directly reaching out to you, it is an avalanche of people that have stories around the five second rule.

Well, one of the reasons why I'm so excited about this book, and look, you don't have to buy the book. This is an idea that you can use. It's free. It's backed by science. More than 8 million people around the world have discovered it. And, you know, you're talking about the number of people. We've heard from more than 100,000 people in 80 countries that are using this rule. We know of eleven people who have stopped themselves from killing themselves using this rule.

I saw one of those outreaches.

Yes, yes. There was a guy, Steve, that wrote to us who was a veteran. He was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. He boarded a ferry overseas with the intention to jump over. He walked over to the railing, gave me the chill, and his inner wisdom kicked in. In that moment, the five second rule, 54321, counting backwards, moved away from the railing, asked for help, saved his life. His story has inspired countless other people that have heard me in the speeches that I give around the world of about this one tool. And so, you know, the thing, the thing that's so cool about this, and I should tell you the science behind it, because I'm going to be honest with you, it is stupid. Had I ever thought that I would find myself eight years after discovering it, spending my days telling people about the five second rule. First of all, I would have picked a different name because it reminds you.

Of the one where you have to.

Like, pick up food within 5 seconds off the floor. Right? It was my secret weapon. This was something I did. I never intended to tell anybody because I went from getting up on time and waking up on time to shaking up my entire life. Because when you understand the power of a five second decision and you understand that you always have a choice to go from autopilot to decision maker, everything in your life will change. You will be a different negotiator. You will be different in sales. You will be unstoppable in the gym, because you will realize the amount of garbage that you put in the way of your hopes, of your dreams, of your potential, of your confidence, of your courage. Everything comes down to the decisions that you make. We all know what to do? None of us know how to make ourselves do it, so I started researching it. Why does something so stupid work?

Why?

Why does something so silly create such powerful and profound change? Well, here's why. The rule is a form of metacognition. Metacognition is a fancy pants term that means something real simple. You can outsmart your own brain in furtherance of goals. There are tricks that you can use that actually outsmart the tricks your brain plays on you in furtherance of a higher purpose. We all know this. You can restrain yourself if you're in a situation that calls for it. You can jump into a raging river to save your dog or your kid. You can direct yourself in ways if it's important to you. And so the rule, what it does is it does something really remarkable when you count backwards, 54321, what you're actually doing is you're interrupting what researchers call habit loops that get encoded as closed loop patterns in your basal ganglia. That's the part of the brain where your feelings, where your emotions, every habit that you have, which is nothing more than behavior that you repeat that you don't even think about.

I've heard it referred to as a gearbox.

Yeah.

Shift your attention from.

And so when you go 54321, it interrupts what's going on here that's spinning without you thinking, and it moves and awakens your prefrontal cortex. So when you hit one, your habit has been interrupted. So you've interrupted self doubt. You've interrupted maybe snapping at your kids. You've interrupted the desire to grab for a drink. You've interrupted procrastination. You've also, by counting backwards, done an action. It's awakened your prefrontal cortex. That is the part of the brain that you need, that's awake. When you're changing behavior, when you're learning new things, when you hit one, it's also a prompt. So, in the language of research, you'll hear people talk about starting rituals. That is something that's proven to help you learn a new habit. The five second rule, when you repeat it becomes a starting ritual that triggers you to act with confidence, that triggers you that this is a moment for courage, that triggers you to shift gears. And because you've also done the manual work of awakening the part of the brain that you need to change, you've set yourself up for success. It doesn't work if you count up, because you can keep going. And also counting up doesn't require focus if you count backwards.

54321 it again. Awakens the prefrontal cortex, and it prompts you to move when you start to use it. And then you read about it, you'll see that it's being used all over the place. They use it in the armed services in order to align troops and get them to start an exercise. They use it at elementary schools, 54321, at big assemblies to get a huge room full of kids to stop talking.

That's a simple and interesting example.

Yeah, because it requires you to focus. It's not a habit. It will become a habit that prompts you to have confidence and courage. But in the beginning, it interrupts patterns of behavior that you do on autopilot. It helps you assert control, and it teaches you how to become the kind of person that moves from thinking about something to actually doing it.

It's incredible. So there's so many things in that story, and, guys, I'm telling you, it's. You're going to love the depth of brain research that is put in the book. It's really quite extraordinary. You really have an amazing grasp of the brain, and it really, really came through in the book. And for me, it was a wonderful balancing act between the just raw emotion of the people writing in and some of the stories that you're sharing and, you know, the imagery of the rocket ship, which, you know, I mean, you're very open about. It's sort of a silly visual metaphor, but because it's effective, that silliness is somewhat irrelevant.

What's incredible is in 5 seconds flat, self doubt can take over and rob you of your power and rob you of joy and rob you of your potential. Or in 5 seconds flat, you can actually use one stupid little trick to push yourself to grab it.

What I loved in the book is BEcause you paint the picture so very well. You're also just a good writer, so you paint the picture like, I could feel the crisp, you know, winter air of Boston, like, stalking you out of the, you know, the under the comforter. And so I could really feel it. I was there with you as chris's business is struggling, so you really feel all of that. And so the moment when you do the countdown, you spring out of bed, and you're almost, like, taking yourself by surprise, and you're, like, moving before you realize it. But you're reading it from the perspective of, I already knew who you were, so it was give me the chills. It was more difficult to picture you as stuck than it was to know I know where she goes. Right. I'd already seen the TED talk by the time I read the book, I knew what you were doing from a media perspective. I knew how many people and companies you'd help. So for me, it was like watching it in reverse. So I'm watching it from the safety of. I know she crushes it.

So if this is the thing, and I love that this isn't your first book, this was the secret that you planned to keep hidden in the drawer forever.

Oh, yeah.

I was not gonna tell anybody. Cause it was stupid.

And it also works. And so it's my thing, and it's not your thing. But, see, the real thing that happened.

For me, and this is something that.

Is a really important topic for me, is that when you talk about personality. So extroverts, introverts. A lot of us, really. I know I did this. I was all wrong about what confidence meant. I thought confidence was a personality trait.

I love this. Tell me more.

I thought that people that are outgoing are the confident ones. Right. The truth is, confidence is not a personality trait at all. It's a skill. And a lot of the extroverted people that you know are actually very insecure. I used to be one of them. I used to be the kind of bossy, crass loudmouth that didn't believe in myself, that didn't believe in my ideas, that didn't have the confidence and the courage to really be the real me, who I am, who I'm not. Flaws and all. There are a tremendous number of introverted people that feel uncomfortable putting the attention on themselves, but they're very, very confident in their ideas. They definitely believe in themselves. And so when you start to separate confidence, not as a matter of personality, but as a skill that you can acquire, because confidence is the ability to move, in my opinion, from thought to action. Because when you're a confident person, you believe enough in yourself and your capabilities that you're willing to try, that you're willing to share. To me, confidence isn't the assuredness that it turns out. It's the willingness to try. And that was a huge insight for me.

And what a lot of people don't know about me, although I share this on, and I'm extremely open about this, because this is a topic that's really important to me, is that the single most profound use of the five second rule is mind control. And I say that as a lawyer, I will tell you, you can use this stupid trick to cure yourself of anxiety.

Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, by God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.