When I'm not hosting this podcast, I am writing books, but it is really hard for me to write when I'm at home, so I like to find remote cabins in the middle of nowhere to just hang out and write. But I hate the idea of my house just sitting empty, doing nothing but collecting dust and definitely not collecting checks. And that's why I'm an Airbnb host. It's one of my all-time favorite side hustles. Other popular side hustles are awesome, too, don't get me wrong, but they often involve big startup costs. By hosting your space, you're monetizing what you already have access to. It It doesn't get easier than that. And if you're new to the side hustle game and you're anxious about getting started, don't worry, because you're not in this alone. Airbnb makes it super easy to host. I mean, if I could do it, you could do it. And your home might be worth a lot more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb. Com/host. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. It's only in the last few years, really, that people have been looking more critically at MLMs, the multi-level marketing model.

Even if you haven't heard them called MLMs, you know what I'm talking about. In some ways, it has some overlap with the franchise model. If you're participating in an MLM, you buy the company's product, maybe it's makeup or leggings or home goods, and then you turn around and sell that product. That in and of itself is pretty standard and above board. The issue with MLMs is that it is often a big part of the strategy not to just sell the products, but to recruit new salespeople to sell them products to sell. So that is why MLMs are often referred to as pyramid schemes. Today, I'm chatting with Roberta Blevins. She's an anti-MLM advocate. And as you're about to hear, the jury, for me, is really still out on MLMs. While I've heard a lot of horror stories, I've also heard some really good ones. I've heard from full-time parents who do some MLM work on the side, and they say that MLMs have given them financial independence and a greater sense of purpose. But where I think Roberta and I can both agree is that MLMs can really go wrong. It can go from being a side hustle to a money pit very quickly.

And Roberta tells me some of these horror stories today. Here's that conversation. Roberta Blevins, welcome to Money Rehab.

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Well, you're here to talk about MLMs today. So for some context, you were employed in the MLM world as a consultant for all these companies, right? Itworks, LuLaRoe, many others, I assume, and a customer, I'm sure.

Customer to many, and a rep of three. Two intentionally, one accidentally, which happens often in MLM.

Let's get to that. But before we get started, actually, can you just define MLM? And for now, just a definition of what it is, how it's structured for anyone who might not know.

Absolutely. So MLM is short for Multilevel Marketing. You might know it from its various other names, direct sales, network marketing, social selling, anything where basically you're getting a message from somebody who's like, Hey, do you want to buy the products that I'm selling? And it's essentially set up like a legal pyramid scheme. And I'm assuming as soon as I said that a bunch of people are like, oh, yeah, like this one, like this one, like that one. Yeah, every single one that you just thought of is an MLM.

Yeah, so like Mary Kay, doTERRA.

Oh, yeah. Amway, Young Living, Modere, Unique, all of them. There's so many. There's over 300 active and over thousands that have been around.

Okay, so you're not mincing words saying that this is a legal pyramid scheme. I think we all know how you feel about it. But Definitions aside, how did you even get drawn into the MLM world to begin with?

So I was just a vulnerable young mom looking for something to make my life more. So just a very normal story. I think most people stumble into these because of a vulnerability. They need money, they need an identity, they need something for themselves, whatever it is. And for me, I just didn't... I wanted to be more than just a wife and just a mom. I wanted something for myself. And I was working out of the home, and I wanted to bring it in because I didn't want to miss the early years with my daughter. And so I just started looking, and my father had passed away, and I had seen some unflattering photos of myself, and I was already in that mindset, and I I was like, I'm going to do this. My cousin was selling It Works at the time, and it was the thing that was really big. Then were those crazy rap things, which is like- Wait, what things? They were called raps, but they said... The slogan was, Ask me about those crazy wrap things were everywhere. Anybody back in mid 2000s that was in the circle of MLM's remembers. And they were essentially- Okay, I missed that.

Plastic sheets that had some fancy magic lotion that you wore. You wrapped yourself in saran wrap, you sweat it out a couple of pounds, and then you're like, they work. It's amazing. That sounds terrible. Absolutely. Super sweating, super gross, stinky. Just the fact of wrapping yourself in saran wrap, it's very Kathy Bates. And it's just it was too much for me. I lasted maybe three months in that company. I was like, this is a scam. Everybody's selling the same thing. I'm not interested in wrapping myself in saran wrap anymore. And in fact, the roll of saran wrap that I bought because I really thought that I was going to be so successful and need so much, I still have that and I still wrap my food in it. Since 2000? Oh, God. Since 2007.

Well, at least you're not wrapping yourself in it. So they got you at a vulnerable time.

Absolutely. It was actually early 2010s because I had just had my daughter, and she was born in 2011. So, yeah, early 2010s, actually.

And when did you start to feel like something wasn't right?

Well, it works almost immediately. And that's why I missed all of the red flags a year later when I decided to join Luma Road, because the red flags were different, and I was wearing rose-colored glasses, so they just looked like flags.

So tell me about leaving It Works. For obvious reasons, I mean, even when you tell me about the crazy rap, I think anyone could find red flags. So what were the ones when you went to the next company?

Well, I left It Works just because it seemed like nothing that I wanted to do. It was really just like, this isn't going to work for me, even though they say it will. And I just left, and it was embarrassing in there. If there wasn't a big announcement, or anything. I just fated into the whatever. A year later, when LuLaRoe came around, I was still feeling the same emptyness because I hadn't done anything to fix my mental health or really unpack anything that had happened to me. I just buried it even deeper. And so when Loulou came around, the thing that I was missing the most, being a mom of a child who was not in school yet, was community, was friends. I didn't have any friends that had kids my age. I didn't have any friends that were local that could hang out or wanted to go hang out at a park for hours on end. And so because I didn't have those friends, that's what I was looking for. And I just randomly stumbled upon a friend of mine on on Facebook who was a mom friend who had these brightly-colored leggings. And they were cute.

I was home most of the time. And so I wanted to just be comfortable. And they had matching sets that you could match with your kid. And I was like, this is the only time in her life where she's going to be super into it. I was actually wrong. She's still super into it. It's just a little different. She would never be caught dead in Loulou now. And so it was just really fun. And we wanted to have fun. And I thought, why not? And I'm watching people on Facebook selling these leggings. They're flying off shelves like hotcakes. I was like, I could sell leggings. That's not hard. Look at all these people. They're like, I have a pair of leggings. And 25 people are like, I want them. So I was like, yeah, that's super done. And so I missed every single red flag. But the red flags weren't there until after I signed on the dotted line. I guess I could have really done a lot of research and gone and found people that had left and been telling me what it was about. But even back then, the big red flags hadn't even happened yet.

So it was still a very young company. Most of the people that And it were in it were super-duper jazz. Mario Lopes had just been at their event. I was like, oh, my gosh, AC Slater's down. Let's do this, right? Why not? This sounds like a really cool thing. And all of the people that were selling it were very much like, you'd be perfect, which is a total MLM thing. The people that wanted me on their team were like, What can we do to help? Do you need some forms? What do you need to show your husband? Because he was like, You don't need to do this. You do way too much. You don't need to sell leggings, too. And And they were like, What did he say today? Maybe you should show him this. You can have him talk to my husband. And so there was always something that was keeping me going. For three months, I was on the hook until eventually I wore him down, and he was like, If you're going to do it, just do it, because You're not going to stop talking about it. So just do it. And so I joined.

Everything leading up to that felt great. It wasn't until I actually started to join that things were strange, because my upline, who's the person And that you sign up underneath in the pyramid. She was like, oh, yeah, as soon as you sign up, you'll get your clothes in a week. So be super ready. So I go out to spend all this money, turn a room in my mom's house. I said, hey, can I come over and have an office? And she's like, whatever. I turn a room into her house into a little boutique. I buy all these racks. I buy everything that I'm going to need to literally have a clothing store in the office. And I sign up and the first red flag happens. Oh, well, we were So popular. You're going to have to wait six weeks to get your clothes. I was like, well, I thought six days. Now you're telling me six weeks. And all these other people are joining. I should have been like, well, too many people joining. You're flooding the market. It's too much. But I was like, yes, everybody wants this. Everybody's into it. Everyone wants to be a part of it.

This is a green light. This is great. Let's keep going. Let's do this. I had people that were joining me and joining my team, and I wasn't even in Loulou yet. People are like, oh, you're doing it. I heard about it. I want to be on It was the most wild thing. I was like, this is exactly what they say when you find the right company, because I'd heard that before, too. And so everything really seemed to be clicking. I was like, yeah, let's do this. And I invested $9,000 into. Oh my God. I mean, I invested so much more, but initially, $9,000. And then plus another couple of thousand buying all the racks and the hangers and the printer and the desk and the chair and the pictures for the walls. It's like, she believes she could, so she I did. That bullshit. You know what I mean? So home goods, they got me, too, man.

But the nine grand went to product?

The nine grand went to product, yes.

So when you sign up under someone, that person gets a cut of your sales?

Kind of. Essentially.

And then it keeps going.

It's not really my sales, though. They get a cut of what I purchase. There's no way of knowing what I sell on the back-end unless I'm the one I'm taking any accountability for it, because once the MLM sells it to you, once your upline gets their bonus, it's your product. You're the true customer in MLM.

Because you have to buy it in advance. Right.

And most, but not all. You see, there's so many caveats and And difference is every single MLM is slightly different intentionally. So you can be like, well, that's how your old MLM was. Your new MLM, this one's different. We don't do that here. And it's a way to just keep people stuck in the entire conflict complex of MLM, jumping from company to company thinking that they're the problem. And it's not that MLM is a problem. So everything is a little different. So it's hard to say yes or no for anything. It's very nuanced.

Hold on to your wallet Money Rehab. We'll be right back. Do you ever get FOMO, fear of missing out? Well, do you ever get FOMO-Tupita, fear of missing out on the perfect hire? If so, I have the antidote. It's LinkedIn jobs. Linkedin jobs helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else. Even those who aren't actively searching for a new job but might be open to the perfect role. In any given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites, and that adds up to a serious squad of awesome candidates. Linkedin has over a billion professionals on the platform, and these candidates are super qualified, so much so that 86 % of small businesses get a qualified candidate within just 24 hours. I work with LinkedIn jobs for all of my dream team needs, so they're hooking picking up money rehabbers at linkedin. Com/mnen. Go there and you can post your job for free. That's linkedin. Com/mnen, as in Money News Network. Just post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Money Rehabbers, you have money hidden in your house. Yeah, just hiding there in plain sight. Okay, so I don't mean you have gold bars hidden somewhere in walls, treasure map style.

But you do have a money-making opportunity that you're just leaving on the table if you're not hosting on Airbnb. It's one of my all-time favorite side hustles. By hosting your space, you are monetizing what you already own. It doesn't get easier than that. For me, hosting on Airbnb has always been a no-brainer. When I first signed up, I remember thinking to myself, Soph, you pay a lot of money for your house. It is time that house return the favor. And to get real with you for a sec, I felt so much guilt before treating myself on vacation because traveling can be so expensive. But since hosting on Airbnb, I feel zero stress for treating myself to a much-needed vacation because having Airbnb guests stay at my house when I'm traveling helps offset the cost of my travel. So it's such a win-win. I mean, if I could do it, you could do it. And your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb. Com/host. And now for some more money rehab. A lot of people just say, onboarding to MLMs is like a cult.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Mlms are cult. I say it all the time. I have no shame in saying that, and I can back it up. But absolutely, they're a cult. They fall underneath commercial cults, which are cults that are bilking you for money. And absolutely it is. The MLM would not work without the cult because it's the control that keeps people stuck and keeps people buying. Like I said, you are the true customer in an MLM. It doesn't matter. The MLM, once they sold me my $9,000 worth of leggings and skirts and dresses, they were like, we got our $9,000. I don't care if Riberta ever turns it into $18,000 because we already got our money. And so it's a very vicious cycle. People are getting bonuses off of that. That's why products and MLMs cost so much. You're saying, why are you paying $25 for a pair of leggingss when I can go to Walmart and get the same thing for five? Well, at Walmart, they're not paying bonuses on top of bonuses on top of bonuses on top of bonuses because Walmart is not a pyramid scheme, no matter how many people on the Internet will tell you that corporations are the real pyramid scheme?

They're not. They're just not. And then also when I would ask questions, I was made to feel crazy. And I didn't know. I didn't have language that I was being gaslit. I didn't have that language. I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what it meant. I'm like, No, I'm not crazy. I'm not. You're telling me this could never happen, and I'm literally holding in my hands telling you that it is happening. They were like, with the stinky leggings and the wet leggings, I got all of this damaged inventory, and they refused to take it back or refund me. And they were telling me that I needed to dry them and sell them at a discount or Or they said the stinky ones, if I threw them in the freezer, they would be fine, and then I could sell them. And I was like, I'm not going to sell damaged goods. You should be refunding me. And before I did what I do now, I was a hair stylist. And so dealing with even a faulty pump on a hairspray, I knew that when the rep came in, I'm like, doesn't spray. And they're like, here's a brand new one.

Switch, switch, no questions asked. So I knew in a true business sense, when there's a faulty product that the company trades it out, no questions asked. And the amount of back and forth I was getting just being like, why is this wet? It should have been like, oh, my God, I don't know why it's wet. That's a huge problem. We shouldn't be sending wet stuff out. We're going to fix that. It was like, that's so weird. It's never happened before. Are you sure? I'm like, Yeah, I'm literally wringing water out of it. Yeah, I'm absolutely sure. So it was that stuff that started the seed. That was the seed that planted. And that was only probably eight months into my year and a half I was there. So that was like a seed. So anytime anything odd happened again, I could go back to that moment and be like, Oh, yeah, they did that to me with the leggings. They do that. That's what they do. And it was just piling on, piling on, piling on. Then I noticed certain people leaving. They did this buyback program that in the documentary Lula Rich, they go into it pretty well.

So it's understand. It's very easy to understand. And they had this buyback program. And as soon as there was this 100% guarantee a ton of people left. And they were like, I can't do this anymore. Mark is a narcissist. And I was like, what? And I just couldn't see it. I just couldn't see it. And a ton of people that I really loved and respected left. And I was like, that was odd. And that just kept happening. And then there was this one woman who was reporting on things. And I was told to go look at it. And I was like, what is going on? And it was just a little bit and a little bit and a little bit until eventually I was like, I can't do this anymore. This is happening almost every single day. You're telling us this. I remember we were saying, Hey, this shouldn't be happening. And instead of having a professional response, the owner of LuLaRe, Mark, started singing that song, 'cause you had a bad day. He was singing that to us in a Zoom meeting, telling us that we just need to get over it and bad days happen.

And I was just like, no, I'm done. I can't... This is true. I didn't know what was going on. I was absolutely being gaslit, and I couldn't figure it out. And I remember the day that I left was the day that they pulled the 100 % buyback that they said was not going anywhere. And I was like, that cemented it. There's the confirmation that I made the right decision. It was literally hours after I had resigned and said I was leaving, that they pulled this and screwed so many people. And I was like, yeah, okay, I made the right decision. So it was just little things like that. I didn't even realize it was a cult. For me, I felt like it was a scam of a business. If it was really a true business that really, truly cared, they would be doing X, Y, Z, and they're not. So for me, it It was more like, I can't deal with this scammy shit. I can't. And then leaving and talking to other survivors in Facebook groups that I was not allowed to be a part of when I was in Loulou and having everything that had happened to be being confirmed.

I was like, Oh, all of you got wet leggings? Oh, all of you got stinky ones, too? It was like, Oh, I'm not just the only one. I'm not crazy. And it was at that point that I was like, Okay, we got something here. And I started doing research and I found Dr. Steven Heston, and I learned more about cults, not just from a fascination standpoint, but from, I think I was in one, how do we unpack this? And it's just been... And that was September 2017. So from that moment, it has literally been a learning experience for me going forward every single day to figure out what I was a part of, how I got into it, and how to warn others about this.

And was it difficult to leave when you finally decided to It sounds like you somehow got roped into the third one, even after that?

Yeah. So what happened there was the- You're like, fool me three times, I'm actually done. And I didn't even realize I was joining. The woman that had been writing all of the scathing blog articles and exposing all the things that were happening in Loulou. When I got out, she had been sued by Loulou because Loulou wanted her sources about all the shit that was being talked. Very interesting story and case and MLM lore. They wanted her sources and she wasn't going to give them up. And it was just this... They were trying to say she's not a journalist, and so she doesn't have the anonymity. And so I had sent her a couple blog posts about how bloggers could be journalists in different ways to defend herself because I had been in that world. And so I was like, hey, these might be helpful to send on to your lawyers. And she was like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much for thinking of me. What are you doing now? And I was like, oh, I'm not sure. I just love Little Row. And it was a very like, well, I'm with this company and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, it sounds like I I really don't. I don't think I want to do the MLM thing anymore. And I remember I looked back in our messages and I did say that I didn't want to do MLM anymore. She was like, no, it's totally different. And they're about to launch makeup, which they still haven't launched six years later. And you should definitely try it. Let me send you a link to get this really good try out pack. I was like, okay, so I signed up for this try out pack. Apparently that was me signing up for the MLM. I didn't realize it until I got a letter in the mail two or three weeks later that was like, welcome to the family. And I was like, Oh, crap. And I never did anything with it. And the products weren't even that good. And what I mostly did was I resold them all on eBay and made money. That was the way I made money in that MLM, was reselling the freebies in the Tryout pack on eBay.

Is it all that bad, Roberta? I did a speech in Cincinnati, I think, five or so years ago for pure romance Do you know that one?

I have a couple of episodes about that one.

Oh, okay. So for anyone who doesn't know, Pure Romance is an MLM for sex toys, right? And it was wild. So I get into this huge theater, I mean, or whatever, conference center, and 5,000 ravenous people. And they all wanted to be entrepreneurs, and they were bringing in so much money. And it was around the time that I was promoting my book, Boss Bitch, and they had a lot of questions about being an entrepreneur and incorporating or not or how to do expenses and this and that.

So I was like, Okay, well, these are Well, entrepreneurs.

Cool.

I mean, get after it. They've been promised the idea that if they work hard enough, they might have the opportunity to win the American dream. And it's this really incestuous gamble that actually has a worse failure rate than gambling. Gambling only has a 95 % failure rate. So it's just the people are wonderful. And I don't think I've ever met anybody who has gotten out of an MLM and understands what they were in and is working towards healing that has been horrible. The only people that are mean are the ones that are projecting and the ones that haven't really gone through it and haven't unpacked it and haven't taken accountability for everything that happens when you're in one of these. But every single MLM is a piece of shit. Yeah. You can quote me on that. Every single one.

We are. Don't you worry.

I have not met any MLM that does not have at least a 95 % failure rate You look at their income disclosure statements, and that's just people that are getting bonuses. And it's wild. I mean, the numbers for people that aren't even qualifying for bonuses is a lot worse because those numbers are the people that are, quote, trying. And And that's not to say that not everybody's trying. It's just it's a game, and only one % can win. And so it doesn't matter if there's one person, or there's 100 people, or there's a thousand people. If only one % can win, then 99 will lose regardless of the size, regardless of the company, regardless of the product, regardless of the compensation plan, regardless of anything.

And when you say lose, you actually mean lose money. You came out net negative at the end of this. You didn't make money. You spent more money than you made.

I probably came out with maybe 3,000 in the green, maybe.

Oh, but that's still money.

But not for a year and a half. 3,000 dollars for a year and a half is nothing. I mean, that's pennies. That's not even a lovable wage. That's lower than prison wages. Totally agree.

But people are assuming this is a full-time thing, not a side hustle. Because for a side hustle, if you're making three grand, I'm fine with that.

Well, most people aren't treating it as a side hustle. I see.

Because you have a lot of work to do.

A lot of the times when I do numbers, I will use a part-time. I will use a 20 hours a week figure. I always go the benefit of the doubt of the MLM. I always round up in their favor. I always use numbers that are their favor and their numbers that they produce. And basically what it is, is Dr. John Taylor, and you can find this, it's still on the FTC's website, but Dr. John Taylor, he's incredible. He passed away a few years ago, but he did an incredible amount of research on the compensation plans of multi-level marketing. I mean, he looked at hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds. And he found in his economic research that when all is said and done, when you take into all accounts, you take into the money that you put in, the money you spend to stay in because it's a pay-to-play system, the money that you're giving up, the opportunity costs that you are giving up because you are choosing to be in something that is not profitable, the sunk costs of staying in something that's not profitable. When all of those things are taken into account, plus your hours and your time, 99.7% of people will lose.

Because I think I drove by In-N-Out burger the other day and my daughter goes, Dang, they're paying good. They're paying upwards of $20 an hour at In-N-Out burger. So if you are working in MLM because you're trying to make your business and you're trying to get the money and you're working even 20 hours a week for less than prison labor. I've done the math with their numbers, and it's like 27 to 50 cents an hour. So if you're choosing to be paid 27 cents an hour instead of $20 an hour, that is the opportunity cost that you are choosing. That is part of the loss of you deciding to be all in with an MLM, as opposed to sunking it up, realizing you're in a scam, realizing that this is not going to help you, and saying, I'm going to go get that part-time job at In-N-Out Burger or McDonald's, or wherever, anywhere that's hiring. It's easier said than done, obviously, to get a job. But getting a job going to work guarantees that you will get a paycheck. Sitting at your house, posting on Instagram, and bugging all of your friends from high school for four hours a day for a part-time job, there's no guarantee of anything.

And then that goes into labor exploitation because now you are an unpaid worker for a company that you paid to have the opportunity to promote. So the MLMs don't have to pay anything for advertising because all of their reps are doing it for free. So that's when you really think about everything, and nobody ever thinks about everything, right? When you think about everything Everything that you could be doing, everything that you're spending to stay in. Every time that monthly fee comes around for your website or you have to spend your $100 to get your points to qualify for your $87 bonus check. You're spending $100 to get an $87 check. You're losing money. So it's all those little things. Nobody ever wants to do a profit and loss. Nobody ever thinks about a lot of different things, even when they do a profit and loss. They don't think about the babysitter they had to get or the gas to go to the meeting or the fast food on the way that they got, all the other things that they have to account for because they're going to that. Most of the people I talk to come out minus a few thousand.

That's terrible.

We end our episodes with a tip listeners can take straight to the bank. If someone is stuck in this vicious cycle of the MLM world, what advice would you give them?

First and foremost, you do a profit loss statement right now. First thing, look at all of the ins and all of the outs. And I want you to make a vow that if you are in the red consistently for three months in a row, that you pull the plug, that you really think about it and you go, I'm not making any money. Look at the hours you're putting in. Look at the time you're spending away from the reason you joined the MLM. That was a big one for me. I wanted to be home with my kids, and I was missing out on so many things because I was taking pictures or having sales or going to the post office. Look at the sacrifices you're making because that dream, that carrot, that golden carrot you're chasing Next month when I get that thing, next month when I go to convention, I'm really going to rev up. I'm really going to kick it into high gear. If you're constantly saying that to yourself and you're constantly making excuses, it's okay to say, You know what? I think I'm done. It's not great. And then once you're out and you're ready to heal, come find me, and I'll help you on the next steps because it's a little tough.

But I did it, and you can do it, too.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan LaVoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your moneyquestions, moneyrehab@moneynewsnetwork. Com, to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram @moneynews and TikTok @moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.