You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elaina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.

It is. And your hair looks really good over there. Your hair looks really good over there. Your hair looks really good. You You get the swoop without trying, and that upsets me because I try really hard for the swoop. Your swoop is a good swoop. Thank you. But it's not effortless. It's full of effort. It's full of effort. You're like, I woke up like this.

No, I actually did my hair this morning.

No, you can tell that you did it. I brushed it. But still, even when you don't do your hair, the swoop is swooping. Thanks. I was swooping. I just had a glazed stick, so I am feeling Why is that so funny? It's always funny. I don't know why. It's because it sounds horrible, which is why I said glazed stick. You have to be very purposeful You can't run those two together. But it's- Everybody's Donkins, everyone. Donks, baby. But it's a huge donut, essentially, which the look doesn't even make it any better. No, it looks terrible. They should name it something else. Anyways, but it's a big donut full of sugar.

Big donut stick that is glazed.

So I feel sugarful. I feel sugarful. I feel like Sugar Ray.

And you know what? Speaking of Sugar Ray, funny little story before we start. John got me a cameo of Mark McGrath. Sugar Ray. Sugar Ray, who he just calls Sugar Ray.

That's why I'm saying it.

He just thinks his name is Sugar Ray.

I remember when you saw the guy at the airport? Yes. John was like, That's Sugar Ray.

John said, That's Sugar Ray. Oh, my God. I didn't know he was still alive. And I was like, he's like a young... He's like not an old guy. Not at all.

He's like your age.

No, I think he's a little older than me. Sorry.

I'm like, come on.

But he had... He told him that I was his biggest fan.

You are, are you?

Obviously. And he sang me Fly, and he put my name in the song.

I can confirm. It was a good, good.

It was a good cameo.

I wanted to say TikTok.

It was very fun.

When will this episode come out? Can you tell them what you got John without spoiling it or no?

Okay, I got John. So John loves a '90s R&B moment. I think I've more than once said that.

John is a '90s R&B moment.

John is a '90s R&B moment.

I played Genuine at my Wedding, Simply for John.

Yeah. Like, he's... '90s R&B is his... That's everything to him. And I'm not kidding you, multiple times a day, John sings, This is how we do it by Montell Jordan. But that was one of his first concerts.

And he puts it into different... Oh, yeah. Like, he'll sing to the tune of it, even.

If one of our girls does something, he's like, Don't put the glass there.

He literally...

Do not put the glass there. Like, he does it multiple times. So the girls know the song. It's great.

It is part of our daily lives.

So I got him a cameo from Montell Jordan. It was the best cameo ever. And let me tell you, Montell Jordan, first of all, he looks phenomenal. That man? That is a handsome man.

That man is a... Excuse me. I was going to say a snack. That man is the whole damn meal.

And he was so sweet in the cameo. And I asked him, I was like, You don't have to, but it would be sick if you could just sing a quick line. I love that. This is how we do it. But I totally understand if that is not something you want to do.

He did. And?

His voice.

Effortless. Phenomenal.

And John's just going to die. And I'm so excited for it. It's like one of those fun gifs that you're just like, I can't wait to show you this.

I know. You need to send it to his phone. Give him the link so you can video the reaction because I want to see it if I'm not here. Oh, yeah.

We love it. We love cameos in this house. We love to send each other either genuine cameos that are wonderful or hilarious ones.

Yeah. You can't even say what the hilarious ones are, of course.

No, I'm not going to. But just like ones that you're like, they're like, why would you send me this first? So cameos, a fun gift. I will never forget when you got me a cameo from Lindsay Lohan.

My life was complete in that moment.

And she told you that I would still look sexy as a...

Or not sexy.

What did she say? You wouldn't look like a British man if you shaped your hair off.

If you chopped your hair off, yeah. And I was like, Thanks, Lindsay. She said so many great things. It's true. I love that. And you got me one from Gigi Good, who's my favorite drag queen ever. I did.

That was a good one.

Yeah.

So that's cameos. We're not sponsored by cameos.

Cameos and Dunkin' Donuts.

But you know, it's a fun little gift if you can find some that are interesting to someone in your life.

I I feel like this is not an ad for cameos.

No, it's really not.

I don't know why we're doing this, but it's just...

I don't know how we got here. Guys, I just got really excited about Montell Jordan.

It's like the real... No, the cameo, that was honestly one of the best ones that I've seen. Truly was. So it didn't hurt that he is a good-looking, fine man. Anyways. A fine man. Anyways.

So moving on from that, there's no good way to segue.

Truly not. I'm glad you said it because I was trying to figure out how to segue in my head and I couldn't. But let's recap. I do have a confession, and it's that I lied to you. I'm sorry. I said that part two was going to be longer than part one.Incorrect.Incorrect. I swapped. I was like, I looked at the pages that I had written before we recorded, and I was like, Oh, one is longer than the other. And I thought it was part two, but it was part one. But it was part one. They're different by a page length. So you're not going to be hurting by the end of the episode.

But just in case you were counting by the minute and you were like, Bitch, you lied. Yeah. She knows.

I would never lie to you. Not intentionally. Intentionally. Definitely A lot. But let's recap a little bit. So in part one, we got to know Joan, Robinson Hill. We got to know her dad, Ash, and her mom, and she got married a couple of times, and you I thought it was going to work out well in the end. And unfortunately, it did not because whether or not John Hill has anything to do with her death, I don't know, personally. I think the waters are too murky to say for sure. But whether or not he did kill her. He is a turd monster for the way that he treated her.

I was going to say that's the thing. Whether or not he was involved in her death, which again, we're not saying he was because I have no fucking clue.

In part two, it's really, I don't think it's going to be cleared up.

It gets even murkier. Yeah. And it's like, regardless of that, he was a shitty husband. Yeah, exactly. And honestly, it sounds like he wasn't a very present father as well.

No, at least not for the first part of Boot's life. I think he got to be, from the sounds of it, I think he got to be a little more involved after Joan passed away.

Well, I hope it was good for Boot.

I think it was. I hope that it was because Lil Boot deserves that.

Lil Boot, you do deserve that. Lil Boot, baby, you deserved it.

But as we know, Joan's father, Ash, was a very big presence in her life. When she did pass away, he full-heartedly believed that John had something to do with it. It was essentially his life's mission to figure it out. Now, when I left off in part one, we had just gone through basically Ash trying to get anywhere with the district attorney, a team of doctors to prove this. When we finally did finish part one, he was going to go before a grand jury. He was being indicted. Let's pick up with the grand jury. In July 1969, one doctor after another filed into the Harris County Court to testify in the grand jury case presented by McMaster, the district assistant distant district attorney. Since the case rested mostly on the conflicting autopsy reports and the cause of death, just about every medical professional with even a casual connection to the case was called to testify. Wow. But unfortunately, at no time did any of them present any evidence suggesting that Joan's death had been intentionally caused by John or anyone for that matter.

That's unfortunately and fortunately, because at the same time you're like, I hope she wasn't murdered. But also, if she was, I want her to get justice. So it's like, I feel weird.

It's a strange feeling.

I would like evidence because I want her to get justice if that's the case. But I also am like, I hope you didn't get murdered. But also that's an awful way to die regardless. Right.

Well, and I would like some evidence because even if John is like an asshole in a marriage, he doesn't deserve to be painted a murderer if he wasn't. If he wasn't.

That's the thing.

It stinks that it never really got resolved.

But also there was some neglect there because it's like he's a doctor. Why was he allowing this to get as bad as it got?

That's a problem. There's no question in my mind that there was neglect. I mean, the way that the maid walked in and found Joan that sick.

She should never have been allowed to convalesce like that at home.

No, especially with a doctor for a husband. But what these medical professionals did do was question, and just like we were saying, many of the decisions that John made in the days leading up to Joan's death, from the medication he to his refusal to let anyone to see her and then to not wanting to take her to a hospital that was even close by. But despite the compelling hearsay evidence, most people couldn't help but speculate that rather than being motivated by evidence of wrongdoing, it was Ash Robinson who was really behind the persecution of John Hill. Because small town people talk.

Of course.

After the grand jury had heard all the testimony regarding John's negligence leading up to his wife's death, even though Robin, assistant DA, McMaster, was skeptical that their case would go anywhere. As they waited for the jury to return a decision, he told Ash, I haven't got enough to convict this boy of running a red light. Oh, damn. I don't have anything here. The problem, it seemed, was that the case was built mostly on complicated conflicting hearsay evidence from medical professionals, and there was really no physical evidence whatsoever of criminal behavior. Yeah. Frustrated by Robinson's continued pressure, McMaster told Ash, If he wanted to get a conviction, he would need to present the authorities with evidence of a crime, like hard evidence.

Yeah, it needs something.

It turned out that he was right. Without the physical evidence, the grand jury did not return a verdict, finding John responsible for the death. Wow. But never wanted to back down from a challenge, Ash consulted with McMaster and Frank Bisga, and together the men came up with a plan to present the jury with evidence of murder by neglect. So they were going a different route now. Okay.

Because that seems a little more likely to possibly get.

Yes. Some conviction on. Their point was, regardless of how she'd become sick, it was John's negligence and inattention of Jones's serious condition that ended up leading to her death, a result that he would have expected given his medical training. I mean, all the signs were there that she was not doing well. So knowing that John had already refused Asha's attempts to have Joan's body exhumed, he and Brizgo managed to get the matter before a grand jury in mid-august. And in mid August, the court ordered that the body be exhumed and a third autopsy be performed. Which at this point, it's like she can't even rest. Yeah. Peacefully. It makes me... Exactly. When I was first reading this, I was like, I don't know what a third autopsy is going to produce. I know. She had already been embalmed. We were never going to get really anything concrete from an autopsy at that point.

That's the thing. And it's like the degradation of her tissues and any viable evidence here now is so much higher.

Again, it's going to just murky the waters even further. It's interesting what happens here. While the court may have ordered the exhumation, it remained that both the exhumation and the third autopsy would be overseen by Dr. Yehimchik. Meaning that he was essentially being asked to reconsider or undermine his own earlier assessment of Jones's cause of death, which is pretty unlikely that he's going to undermine his professional opinion.

He's not going to be like, Wow, I fucked up.

Right. Knowing that none of the physicians were assigned to the autopsy would be on his side, Ash actually conducted some research of his own to find out who were among the most well-respected doctors in the nation. Like the nation.

He's like, Let's go.

Asch has not given up. No. The list was short, but it included Dr. Milton Halpern, the Chief Medical Examiner of New York at the time, whose credentials and reputation were beyond reproach. Asch wasted no time contacting Halpern and bringing the man to Houston, where he was deputized as an acting Harris County Medical Examiner, so that way he could join the team of doctors performing this autopsy. Holy shit. I know that he would be really overbearing, but the way that he just loved his daughter.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. If he has the money to do this. So it's like, if he has the money to do this, then it's like, I would do the same thing. That's the thing. If I was an oil tycoon and could do all this after something happened, I would go to the ends of the Earth.

And it's like the dedication and and the love for his daughter and wanting to see justice served. It's so heartwarming. But then at the same time, it's so heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Because you're just like, are you ever going to get the answers that you wanted?

And he feels so sure that he knows what happened. And to think, to be so sure in your own mind and heart that your son-in-law murdered your daughter. Yeah. And that you're trying to find the evidence of that.

And you're coming up at like... What?

I can't imagine that journey.

And then just to come up at like hard stop after hard stop of it's not panning out.

And feeling like she's never going to get the justice. That must have been so hard.

Yeah. And just the way he loved her. I've never heard of a dad loving his daughter this hard.

He really went. He did.

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Around New Year's, we get obsessed with how to change ourselves instead of just expanding on what we're already doing, right? Maybe you finally organized one part of your space and you want to tackle another, or maybe you're taking your supplements every morning and now you actually want to eat breakfast, too. It's called habit stacking, baby. Look it up. Personally, I have benefited from therapy, and I feel like that was the number one thing that was honestly the hardest for me to learn. You don't have to change everything all at once. And if you do try to change everything all at once, it's a recipe for disaster. And so if you're feeling a little bit overwhelmed with changes that you're trying to make in your life, number one, Focus on what you're already doing. Number two, try therapy. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Celebrate the progress that you've already made.

Visit betterhelp. Com/morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/morbid. The other One day, I got charged for this newspaper that I used really intensely for one of the cases that I worked on. I subscribed to it forever ago, and honestly, I completely forgot about it because it was one of those annual charges that I stopped using after I was done with a couple of cases that I used it for. I tried to cancel it, and the only way to do it was by calling their customer service number. And of course, they're only available from 10:00 to 5:00. And also, who calls people anymore? I hate doing that. So what did I do? Nothing. Rocket Money, on the other hand, was able to take care of it for me easily. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills. I can see all of my subscriptions in one place, and if I see something that I don't want, I can cancel it with a tap. I never have to get on the phone with customer service, and that to me is a gift.

They'll even try to get you a refund for the last couple of months of wasted money and negotiate to lower your bills for you by up to 20%. All you have to do is take a picture of your bill and Rocket Money takes care of the rest. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has helped saved its members an average of $720 a year with over $500 million in canceled subscriptions. Stop wasting money on things that you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney. Com/morbid. That's rocketmoney. Com/morbid, rocketmoney. Com/morbid. On August 11, 1969, Joan Robinson Hill was exhumed and brought to the medical examiner's office. Now, almost immediately, something struck Dr. Yohamczyk as odd. The medical examiner had performed the autopsy in the middle of the embalming process, like we know, and Joan was buried immediately after. But when he opened the casket to remove the body now, he discovered dried mud on the inside of her coffin, indicating that this was not the first time the coffin had been opened since it went into the ground. What the fuck? When questioned about the mud, the mortician noted that it had been a rainy day when Joan was buried, and he suggested that the mud maybe got inside when they reopened the coffin at John's request so that he could get Joan's wedding ring.

He said, Maybe that's when the mud ended up there.

Okay.

The explanation seemed plausible, but it did little to clear John of suspicion because it's like you wanted to reopen the casket to get her. I understand wanting her wedding ring as a sentimental piece of value, I I suppose. But it's like, you also didn't...

You were having an illicit affair. Yeah. And didn't really care about her feelings about the whole thing. That's the thing. Which I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to grieve and, you There's complicated feelings everywhere here. I get that.

Right. But given the details- But it's like, to open up the casket again to take the wedding ring feels like it's like... I don't know. And given the details of everything else stacked against him right now, it's just... It just makes him look weird. When you put it up against that, it's weird.

Yeah. I'm not saying it makes him a murderer. I'm just saying it's- Not at all. It's a strange behavior. Yeah. Strange.

I think it's just within all of this.

That's the thing. It can be understood. We're both saying, I get Right. But it's put together with everything else. You're just like...

It makes you scratch your head a little.

It's a little off your eyebrow a little bit.

Now, it turned out that the mud on the inside of the coffin was only the first of many bewildering aspects of this case. Really? Because when Jones's remains were removed and prepped for the autopsy, the team was shocked, and I think you'll have a bigger opinion of this than even I did, but it was shocking to me. The team was shocked to discover that not only was the brain missing, but so was the heart. What the fuck? Her brain and her heart were missing. So the team contacted the original medical examiner, Dr. Arthur Morse, excuse me, who explained he had removed both during the first autopsy and taken them back to his lab for examination, saying, I knew this was a case where I couldn't go back in, so to speak.

I mean, I don't know how it works here or in this time period.

Yeah, it's like the '60s.

You should have to have permission to keep body parts.

That's what I would think. That's what I would think.

There's a lot of red tape and a lot of signatures that need to be signatured for you to keep a brain and a heart. Right?

That's what I would think.

Yes. Like, at least when I was working in autopsies, if you were going to keep a body part of brain, specifically or any other organ.

I'm sure you needed a specific reason.

There were specific forms that needed to be signed by family members, by everybody involved, by the doctors, by everybody. And it needed... And there's a chain of custody with that organ. You need to know where it is, why it's happening. I mean, a lot of people have to agree to somebody keeping an organ because usually when you're studying one, you take a piece, you take your sample, but you put it back.

And I feel like- Unless otherwise asked for. I mean, that makes perfect sense to me that there would be a chain of custody and it would be a rather intense process. And to me, the fact, and we don't know what the process was. I couldn't figure out what the process was in the '60s.

Because this is a different state. It's a different time period, so I don't know who Who knows?

You would think that some protocol would be in place. Yeah. And because everybody thought this was so odd, that tells me that there was some protocol that maybe wasn't followed. And the fact that this doctor, this original doctor, Arthur Morse, felt like he needed to to potentially defy that because he couldn't go back in. I'm like, you thought that this case was going to come back up again. That's the thing.

I'm like, so were you not happy with the original examination you were able to do?

And I don't think he was because- That's what it sounds like. Because of the embalming process having already started. And I wonder, I'm like, did you think that maybe... I mean, again, small town, I'm sure people were talking. Did you think to yourself, I need to be prepared if shit goes down and people want answers about the state of this body? That's interesting.

Because that's risky on his part. And for him to take a risk like that.

Exactly.

Sounds like he knew he was going to have to speak for something.

That's what it sounds like to me.

Or speak to something. You know what I mean? And that's just very strange. Yeah. That's the thing. It's strange to go against what you would assume is a pretty routine, rigorous protocol.

Right.

Because I know I can't imagine there's anywhere in the country that is super willy-nilly about just like, I can just keep a brain. No. You have to put that back.

Strange.

Unless otherwise noted, obviously, because there's plenty of times where you request to keep an organ because you know you want to do studies on it for a long period of time. But again, there's got to be so much permission involved.

And to me, the fact that if there was a paper trail that would have had to have been followed and he wanted to avoid that, why did you want to avoid that? Because you were worried about John Hill being a doctor?

Well, and I'm also wondering about the reasons for the brain and heart, specifically. Because usually when you do keep a brain, it's because there was something pointing Like you saw. To the brain being a part of whatever was happening here. Or the heart, the same thing. And it's like, so why did you... I know those are two the powerhouses of your body, obviously. But did you just do that because you were like, these are the two main parts? Because It's also her kidneys were involved in a lot of this, I'm sure.

I mean, her kidneys were the main reason why she had died.

So it's like you didn't keep those.

So it's like, what did you think happened?

Yeah. That you had to keep those organs instead.

That's the thing. And there is... And remember, if you do remember from part one, he also took multiple tissue samples and fluid samples. I think he was preparing for the potential of a court case. Yeah.

He was probably... They whisked her body away so quickly, shirking protocol from the get-go. Right. And started embalming it at lightning speed so no one could touch it. I'm sure that was his first red flag because it was for all of us. Right. And this man is a medical examiner. He's probably like, Excuse me, this is not how this works. So maybe you're right. Maybe that's... He was like, You know what? Something's off about this right off the bat to me because I would be- Red flags just popping out everywhere. So maybe he was like, I'm going to take the two most important parts because they're going to be affected by whatever could have happened here. I'm going to take these two because I need to keep this. That's what I think. To have it for her. That's what I think. Because I don't know what's happening here or why she was taken so quickly without an autopsy. That's exactly what I think. So maybe that is like, he just was like, which like good for him for... It's tough because you need to have permission to do these things and it gets hairy ethically and all that.

Of course.

But I'm glad he at least thought he was looking and being like, something's a little off here. Right. You know? Right.

Exactly.

Wow.

And that's what my gut just says that he knew something was off and he wanted to be prepared.

That's what it seems like.

So it took nearly two months. But in October of 1969, the first of two autopsy reports were submitted by a team of three pathologists working on the case. I say the first of two autopsy reports from this third autopsy. I know that's a little confusing. The first report, authored by Dr. Robert Buckland, stated that Jones's cause of death was, and I quote, a result of bacterial meningitis with septicemia blood poisoning. Damn. Dr. Yehimchick, on the other hand, released his own separate report stating that Jones's cause of death was, and I quote, the result of a fulminating infectious process, the specific nature of which is no longer determinable.

Okay.

So he's backtracking a little bit.

I was going to say he seems like he's blurring the lines a little. Because he was- Blurring the lines a little.

Remember, very steadfast that it was hepatitis. Yeah.

And now he's like, Now we can't be sure.

I can't determine. And he added, It is my further opinion that the exact cause and manner of death cannot be established from the exhumed body autopsy alone. Okay. Now, given all the inconsistencies, he actually, Dr. Yemchik, recommended that a grand jury investigation be undertaken.

Because he's like- I mean, at least he's good for him for at least not sticking with his original one just to stick to it. Yeah. He looked at the evidence again and he said, You know what? Right now, I can't say that that's what it is.

I thought that was pretty honorable.

Yeah, that seems pretty good to me.

And while the court and Asha's group of investigators waited for Halpern's report, John Hill did his best to carry on like everything was normal, despite the fact that his life pretty much seemed to be collapsing all around him. At this point, I'm sure you can imagine his business had taken a serious hit. He's a plastic surgeon. Yeah. Due to all the rumors and accusations leveled by his former father-in-law and circulated then by the Houston gossip circuit.

Yeah. I mean, if people think you're a murderer, I'm not. I don't want to go under anesthesia with you with a knife. No.

And less than a year in, his marriage to Anne felt like a big mistake.

I don't want to say I told you so.

Wasn't so exciting now that you're not cheating on your wife. Yeah.

That one I'm not sad about.

Yeah. He felt like she was never satisfied with anything he did or said, and he was already thinking about a divorce. Years later, his mother would recall him saying, If I didn't marry her, She threatened to call ID McMaster and say, I killed Joan. And if I divorced her, she said she'd commit suicide and leave a note saying I was responsible for her death.

And get it together. I know.

If that is the case of what she said, who knows?

And either way, it's like, you guys are a wreck.

Yeah, get it together regardless.

The two of you need to get it together. Like, my goodness.

That's the thing. Now, Dr. Halpern took several months longer to complete his report than the other pathologist, which I respect. He was like, No, I'm getting this right. Yeah. When he did find finally submit it in April of 1970 now. Damn. The report did not contain anything particularly damning. In fact, rather than fully implicate John and his wife's death, Halpern's report actually cleared Hill of many rumors by noting the cause of death while indeterminate was unlikely to have been intentionally caused.

I wonder how he was able to say those two statements, though.

Yeah, I do wonder.

I don't know what the cause of death was exactly, but I know that somebody didn't do It's like, explain to me how do you reconcile those two statements?

Because I need you to have a cause of death to know that nobody did it.

I'm going to need you to determine the cause of death before you tell me that no one could have caused it. Yes, that's the thing. Those seem very conflicting to me. I'm like, That doesn't jive for me.

I think the reason that he said that he didn't believe that it was- Intentionally caused. Intentional, thank you, was because he found no evidence of any injections having been administered. That was a big part of it.

That's not the only way you can someone.

But it's like, have you ever heard of an oral? Yeah. He could have given her any medication orally. Yeah.

There's plenty of places where you might not find one under a nail.

Yeah.

Very true.

That's the thing. But in simple terms, Halpern's report confirmed what Dr. Yohamczyk had already indicated. As a result of miscommunication and improper medical practices immediately following Joan's death, it was very unlikely that her specific cause of death would ever be known, which is really incredibly unfortunate.

Yeah, so frustrating.

Now, while it may have dismissed the theory that John had directly caused his wife's death, Halpern's report made it clear that as both a husband and a doctor, John's behavior in the days leading up to his wife's death was without a doubt negligent. Of course. And earlier treatment, he said, absolutely could have prevented Jones death.

And that's horrifying.

And that's the question at hand here at this point, not did he do it, but did he ignore symptoms that resulted in her Yeah. So by May 1970, two grand juries had heard the district attorney's argument and declined to return an indictment against John Hill. With the latest results from the autopsy in hand, McMaster returned to the grand jury for a third time and presented his case again, this time with the opinion of one of the nation's most well-regarded medical examiners. For the most part, the case was represented the same as it had been the other two times that they'd been before the grand jury. But this time, jury members actually wanted to know the extent to which John's behavior had hastened Jones's death. And according to Halpern, he said, failure to provide medical attention at home and reluctant delay in hospitalization for diagnosis and effective therapy aggravated a situation which proved fatal. So he's saying he didn't take her to a hospital. In time, he didn't give her proper medical attention at home.

Which is wild, considering he's a doctor.

And so the fact that it was too little too late is his fault. Yeah. Is what Halpern is saying. Yeah. And what they're trying to prove. And after a brief deliberation, the jury returned a decision against John Hill with 10 of 12 jurors in favor of an indictment for murder by omission. Oh. Yes. Damn. So unlike manslaughter, which implies a person's negligence, unintentionally led to the death of another, murder by omission implied that John had willfully, intentionally, and culpably—culpably. I feel like I always say that wrong. It's a hard one. And then I say it again, and I'm like, No, that was right. Yeah, you said it right. Culpably contributed to Jones death.

Damn.

At that point, the charge had actually only been used in less than 20 court cases.

I was going to say. I've never heard that used.

Never had it been used in Texas up to this point. Damn. Crazy. Only 20 cases. I got like chill saying that.

That's crazy. It's a lot.

So the indictment immediately split the physicians on the autopsy team with half flatly rejecting Halpern's conclusions and criticizing the jury for their decision. Dr. Paul, I think it's Radelet, told the press, If criminal charges in this type of situation be appropriate, then anyone who's mate expires unexpectedly after a few days of symptoms, whether from pneumonia, heart attack, or septic shock, could also be indicted.

Here's the thing. I get where they're coming from. It could seem like a slippery slope. It's hairy. Okay, so if I don't know it's that bad and I don't take them in time and they die, that's my fault. If I can't see the symptoms, You know what I mean? Yeah. But then you're like, I think what it's saying here is that, one, he's a doctor, which you are trained from years and years of schooling and experience to recognize symptoms that somebody is very, very ill. And also her symptoms were not invisible symptoms. You don't have to be a doctor. Something that you would be like, I didn't know she was this sick and we brought her and it's too late. Right. She was vomiting so much that she couldn't even get herself into the bathroom. Right. And was like, the maid found her covered in vomit and feces on the floor. It never should have gotten to that point.

She was violently ill.

And also, I'm sure she was wildly dehydrated. She was. And I know that a doctor can spot dehydration from fucking counties away. A doctor can look at you and go dehydrated. I mean, I can look and see if somebody is dehydrated. There's certain symptoms you just know, and it's like, you know she was. Absolutely. And that alone can kill you. So if you see that she's going down that path of even just dehydration from being sick, even a stomach bug, you can get too dehydrated, need to go to the hospital, get an IV. Right. So even if she was going down that path where it was just like, wow, you're dehydrating here, you should have got her to a hospital. Absolutely. So she could get IVs so that could stop. It's like, that's what I can understand that the doctor here is saying it could be a slippery slope if we allow this to be this case, if this is not the way it is. But it's like this one is different. This is case Specific. And that's why this has only been used 20 other times, because this is very case-specific. In this case alone, it's hard for him to reconcile and explain why he didn't get her to a hospital sooner.

Exactly. I don't get it.

It was multiple days, like at least three days of symptoms like that.

And it's like after the first day of violent, violent symptoms, if she's not better, to the doctor, she goes. That's the thing. Why not? Right. What's the worst that can happen? They're like, She's okay. Just go home.

And you put that hand in hand with not letting anybody in the house to see her. That's the other thing. Giving her what somebody said, and obviously we'll never know, was a tranquilizer. Why are you tranquilizing her when she's in this position? That I don't understand.

Tranquilizing her seems like a terrible idea. If she's vomiting.

Exactly. She's going to have a choke on her vomit.

She could die that way. Right. And it's like, yeah.

And then people said she got this sick after something that he gave her. And again, that's hearsay because none of us there. There's a lot of factors that go into this specific case.

Exactly. I can see why they used this charge here.

And where it's silly to say that, oh, if he goes down for this, watch out husband of America.

It's like, no. I don't think that's the case.

And look how tough it was to get here in the first place. It wasn't like this was like, stop one.

The doctor of it all really takes it up a notch.

Right, exactly. Halpern's autopsy report had definitely influenced the jury's decision to return an indictment against John, but so did testimony given by his now ex-wife, Anne Kearth. When John had initially asked his lawyer to draw up the divorce papers, his attorney actually strongly advised against it, noting that it would look pretty bad if he was already divorcing the woman he'd left his wife for. Yeah. But John insisted it needed to happen, and the couple was divorced on March 12th, 1970, one week short of the anniversary of Jones' death.

Man. Yeah.

They had barely made it a year.

When I say you got to get it together, I mean, you got to get it together.

You got to get it together.

What are you doing?

It's truly what are you doing?

Because it's like when they got married Right after this, remember, we were talking about it, we were like, Listen. I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying he did it. I'm just saying if you know the whole place is thinking you might have done it, and then you go marry the lady you were having an affair with.

What are you doing?

Five minutes after she dies.

Get a fucking You got to think a little bit.

Just use your goddamn brain, dude. Seriously. Come on.

It turned out, though, that John's lawyer was right to be worried when she took the witness stand and obviously angry and bitter Anne performed very dramatically for the jury, telling them, John Hill had not only killed his first wife, but had also tried to kill her on three occasions. Damn, man. Anne insisted that John had managed to fake his polygraph results and made her best attempt to convince the entire courtroom and the assembled press that John Hill was a violent and dangerous man.

Wow.

Now, he very well could have been. Yeah. But it's like, I feel like in this case, I don't know Should we... This is tough.

This is tough, but it's also like, she's mad. She obviously. Right. Is she so mad that she's going to brand him a murderer?

That's the thing.

I mean, that's pretty mad.

That's pretty mad.

That's pretty bad blood between an ex-couple.

It is.

I really don't like my ex-wife, but I'm not going to paint him as a murderer. I'm not going to be like, Oh, shit. It's my chance to get him behind bars for the rest of his life.

And that's the thing.

Is there some truth to something here that she's saying?

And who knows? And I'm not saying that there isn't, for the record.

I'm like, was there could be. Could he have been violent with her?

But Don't you think that sitting on a jury, you would question that testimony? Of course. That's the problem here. That's why I'm like, was that really a smart decision to even put her on the stand?

Exactly. That's where the problem lies, is if she is telling the truth, then that sucks even more because she wasn't taken seriously.

Exactly.

And it's like everything about this sucks because it's like she could absolutely just be unhinged and be up there angry and decide to ruin this man. Really fuck this guy's world up and just make up the worst shit you can possibly make up about somebody. People have done that. Oh, yeah. We've seen it. We've seen it happen. It's not unheard of.

Look at the West of its three case. The shit that got made up during that case.

Yeah. To me, it's shocking to think somebody would be so angry about the breakup of a marriage, that they would want to paint that person as a murderer.

But people are vindicted. But people are vindicted.

But it could absolutely happen.

And again, I'm not saying that that's the case. But if she's not...

If she is telling any of the truth, then that sucks even more because she's just being ignored and treated as That's why- Which I'm not an Anne fan, as we know. No. But if she was being abused in any way or he was violent with her, she does not deserve that.

She does not deserve that. But I don't think I ever would have put her on the stand as a prosecutor or as a defense attorney.

It was not good for anybody, no. To be quite honest.

No. But the accusations and the indictment were all deeply troubling for John. But just as the grand jury investigation was wrapping up, he started dating a new woman.

Okay.

This one lasts.

Okay, John. But seriously?

Like the marriage, I should say.

Come on. Yeah.

Connie Loseby, who would serve as a source of comfort and support through the upcoming trial, was the new woman John was dating. Under normal circumstances, his romantic life obviously wouldn't be that important. But now, in the context of his legal troubles, it appeared to the outside world that he had a bit of a habit of trading one wife in for another pretty rapidly. In fact, it took John's lawyer, Richard Racehorse-Haynes, who I'm actually working on another case of his right now. Oh my God. Considerable effort and convincing to prevent his client from Mary and Connie before the trial. He was like, I don't think you should do this.

He's like, Dude, just take a minute.

He's like, I told you not to divorce Anne in the middle of this and look at her on the stand over there. That's not good for you. No matter what.

And now you're ready to marry again in the middle of this? Like, Dude, get it. Again, use your fucking brain. Like, what is going on?

And the other thing is, not only are you on trial for murder murder by omission. You're in the headlines for that anyway. You would be regardless. You're a high society man. What the fuck are you doing? This is just wild. Play the game, idiot.

Yeah, this is just wild.

Jesus Christ. So when the trial did finally begin on February 15th, 1971, John Hill's Love Life was, of course, put on display for everybody to see.

Which it didn't need to be.

It didn't need to be. But in this case, it's like, honey.

But that's what I'm saying. He didn't need this be part of it. Why did you do this? Just take a beat. Yes. Take a beat. Please. Be a dad, take a beat, and deal with what's going on in your life. Exactly. I understand you need to... Because, again, if he's not part of this, if this is all like, holy shit, I didn't do this. Which we don't know. Which we don't know. I mean, he was negligent. That is by 100 %. Nobody can deny that. But it's like, if he's really just going through this shit, it's like, holy shit. Like, I fucked up. I understand needing comfort. Like somebody to... It's probably lonely and scary and whatever. I get that. Don't date someone right away. Get a friend. Be a friend. Find a friend. Yeah. It's like, wait a little bit.

That's the thing.

You know it's not going to look good.

Don't be seen in the 50-foot radius of a woman that you're not related to. So it is In his opening statement for the jury, ID McMaster said, We expect to prove that problems arose in the course of this marriage, which resulted in the filing of a divorce petition on December 3, 1968. When John learned that Joan planned to contest the marriage using his affair with against him, he withdraw his petition. Mcmaster continued on, Having failed to terminate the marriage legally, the defendant began to formulate a plan to rid himself of an unwanted wife. After opening statements, Mc Master called several witnesses to the stand to testify us to John's behavior and actions in the days leading up to and immediately following Joan's death. Among the first witnesses was a woman named Diane Setagast, I believe. She was a family friend who paid multiple visits to check on Joan before she was even admitted to the hospital. Among other things, Diane told the jury that on the night before Joan's funeral, John was showing Laurel and Hardy films to his friends in the home, just laughing and having a good time. The night before her funeral, after she had died, the most violent death in front of him and in his arms.

Okay.

Yeah. According to Diane, John said Joan, and this is a quote, had a very high fever, approximately ultimately 106, and he had broken it. He said after he broke the fever, he didn't take her to a hospital because he thought she was getting all right.

John.

A 106 degree fever as an adult? Are you fucking kidding me? You're border brain damage at that point, aren't you?

106 is just wild.

That is border brain damage, right?

I think they found research that suggests that it's not as simple as that. Is it different now? But I honestly do not know what the the worst thing is. That was always the thought that passed. I think it was like 105 or something. Well, so back then you would have thought. Back there, I was going to say, so that was the thought process back there. And it still might be now. I haven't seen the updated stuff. But I know for an adult That is incredibly high because I know they let kids get a little higher. It's a strange thing.

Yeah. And that's only nowadays that they let kids get higher. Back then, even, you would have brought your kid or your wife to a hospital, you would think.

Well, that's the other thing with that doctor who was like, Oh, watch out, Husbands of America, you're all going get thrown in jail for killing your wives if they die. It's like, but think about it if you did this because he's acting like that's so wild. And it's like, But if you just watched your child suffer for days and did nothing to bring them to a hospital or help them, you would be charged with something. Exactly. For willfully ignoring that your child is sick. So why is your partner any different? Agreed. If it's a person in your life that you have especially legally bound herself to. Yeah. You should have to bring them. You should give a shit. Right. Yeah. I mean, 106 is just to be like, oh, yeah, she had 106 fever, but it broke it. So I figured she was fine. Why the fuck did she have a 106 fever in the first place?

And it's like you're sitting there being like, I broke it.

I broke it. It's like, how did you break it?

What did you do?

Yeah. Like, what the fuck? And it's like, why was it that high in the first place? That would be the shocking thing. Right. Sure. Maybe you broke it, but you bring it to the hospital and go, why did it get that high?

Exactly. Like, what infection is her body fighting off?

I mean, that's a lot.

That's high. Damn. Listeners, we have a new show that we think you're going to freaking love. From Wondrian, hosted by Laura Beale, the critically acclaimed Dr. Death is back with a new season, Dr. Death: Bad Magic, a story of miraculous cures, magic, and murder. When a charismatic hotshot doctor announced revolutionary treatments for cancer and HIV, it seemed like the world had been given a miracle cure. Medical experts rushed to praise Dr. Serhat Gamruku, a genius who is the co founder of a cutting-edge biotech company. But when a team of private researchers dive into Serhat's background, they begin to suspect the brilliant doctor is hiding a shocking secret. And when a man is found dead in the snow with his wrist shackled and bullet casings spreading the snowbank, Serhat would no longer be known for world-changing treatments. He'd be known as a fraud, and a key suspect in a grizzly murder. Follow Dr. Death, Bad Magic on the WNDRI app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Dr. Death, Bad Magic early and ad-free right now by joining WNDRI Plus. Now, by the time Anne Kerth took the stand to testify on behalf of the state, it was becoming clear that just as they had in the grand jury case, the district attorney's office was hoping to succeed with a case built on innuendo.

Yeah.

In fact, Racehorse Haynes, our defense attorney there, had argued considerably, actually, to keep Anne out of the courtroom for obvious reasons, knowing that her anger and resentment could lead to a mostly slanderous testimony about his client. But he was ultimately overruled. And on February 25th, she did arrive in court to testify. According to Anne, John hated Joan and couldn't stand to be around her.

That's all so fucked up.

It's like, yeah, we don't need to know. I guess We do need to know that.

No, I know. It's just like...

It just sucks.

That's the mother of his child. That's really fucked up. It's sad.

Now, over the course of her testimony, Anne claimed that she'd found, three laboratory dishes containing a reddish substance with white spots in John's apartment, and she heavily implied that he had used tainted pastries to poison Joan.

That's specific. Very specific. All of that is pretty specific.

According to Anne, his violent rage was not just reserved for Joan, like I said earlier. While on the stand, she told the jury that he had also tried to kill her multiple times, once by deliberately crashing their car into a bridge abutment, or abutment? Yeah. And another time by, quote, trying to inject her with a syringe.

So it's like, These are pretty specific. That's the thing. And again, I know people lie. I know. I realize that I'm not being like, Well, I'll have somebody's room. Yeah. But it's like, I'm not.

I'm not in the room.

That's specific shit.

And we're going to get more specific because when asked by McMaster why she thought John was trying to kill her with a syringe, Anne said, He just told me how he killed Joan with a needle. He pulled the syringe from his pocket and tried to get it into me.

I mean, that's scary.

And who am I to say that that didn't happen? I don't fucking know.

Well, that's the thing. It's like, I'm not going to sit here and say she's lying. Do I like Anne? No. No. Do I believe her? I don't know. I have no idea. I'm not going to say she's wrong and that she's totally lying. Imagine if she's telling the truth.

Well, that's exactly the problem.

You're not just going to like... But it's like, what a A shitty way for this to come about if she is telling the truth because so many people aren't going to believe it and just think she's angry.

And you wish that there was somebody there during those times. You wish that some...

It was some person near her that knew that there was something going on that could be like, yeah, there was some stuff happening.

Especially after that car crash. It's too bad that potentially she didn't say anything then and they couldn't have figured out, was this intentional? You know how they can look into that?

Yeah, this is interesting.

But Anne claimed that John's hand was shaking taking too hard to inject the syringe into her, and he actually dropped it, but that he had another and again attempted to inject her with something, but abandoned his plan when the headlights of an approaching car came into view, she said. The fuck? Now, that dramatic revelation was immediately followed by a loud and emphatic objection from Haynes, the defense attorney, who argued that the testimony was prejudicial, inflammatory, and privileged as communication between a husband and a wife.

That's fucked up.

Yeah. And at that point, he moved for a mistrial. It's fucked up, but that whole loophole there, people rely on that. I think that, yeah.

That's a weird... That loophole can be so fucking detrimental.

And it doesn't always work. I was watching something recently. I don't even remember if it was fiction or not. Or maybe I read something about it recently.

Maybe it was a dream.

Maybe it was a dream. No, I remember reading or watching something where they were going to try to use that defense, but then they couldn't.

Yeah, definitely. It's a hairy- It's a very specific situation.

I'm talking about the privileged testimony. But he was like, Fuck this. We're going for it. And he moved for a mistrial. Judge Fred Huy overruled Haynes' objection and called a recess. But when they returned a short time later, the judge said he reconsidered what had occurred in the courtroom and granted a mistrial.

Are you kidding me?

That's why I was like, why the fuck did you guys want her on the stand? I know it would have been great, but the testimony was so intense and so... Wow. Yeah. You could see this coming from a mile away that a mistrial was going to happen.

It's like, again, if he really did do that shit, then that is so fucked up that her just simply saying that he did that shit.

If it's the truth.

Made a mistrial. Can you imagine if that's real?

You sit up there and they say, do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing about the truth? And you're like, yeah. And you go ahead and do that, hopefully.

This is fucked up.

And if that's the outcome, that's why people don't testify sometimes. That's why people don't talk about this shit.

Wow, that's really fucked up. Also, Judge Hooey. Hooey. I know. That's a great name. Hoey. I just had to say it. It's great.

Judge Oh, my God. So outside the courtroom, reporters had expected to find John Hill pleased with the outcome, and they were actually surprised by his reaction to the judge's declaration. He told the press, I'm disappointed that we didn't get to carry on with this. I would have liked to get it over with. Being like, I really would like my name cleared here.

Like, I would like to be declared innocent. Yes. Because a mistrial does carry with it some connotations because it's literally like something went to rye and we're not continuing. And we're not continuing, but we still have no idea what's going on?

That's the thing. Now, it turned out that John may have been right to be disappointed, though. A poll of the jurors conducted just a few days after the trial indicated that there was an overwhelming majority in favor of an acquittal.

Wow. Yeah. So he was right.

John Hill was not the only one disappointed with the mistrial, obviously. After spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pursuit of justice, and just in general, Asch Robinson was outraged by this decision. Id McMaster was also in a similar situation. He spent a wild amount of the state's time and resources pursuing this case that many at this point just believed was a lost cause. Given all that had gone into the case against John Hill to that point, neither man was willing to let it go so easily. And a few months after the mistrial was declared, the DA's office announced that the second trial of John Hill would begin, November 15th, 1972. Now, throughout his relationship In her relationship with Connie, John had managed to keep the details of the trial and his relationships with Joan and Anne private from her somehow. That's a little shocking. It truly is. But over... Excuse me. Of course, she knew why he was on trial, and she'd heard about Joan's death in the papers. But she actually didn't know anything about Ash Robinson. Anne's claims that John had tried to murder Joan were also something that Connie didn't really know about.

And she didn't really know about any of the other details that came out in court. I guess she wasn't there. But that changed in the days just before the wedding because he does end up proposing to her. Uh-oh.

Just a couple of days before the wedding, a folder arrived addressed to Connie's parents.

Inside, there were newspaper clippings, reports, and other information detailing the entire situation. The press reports of Jones's death, the reports from private detectives and doctors, and a wealth of information about John's indictment and trial.

The envelope had no return address, but most in Texas assumed that it had come from at least Ash Robinson or his people.

Yeah. At least his people. Trying to save a gal. From what they think is going to- You know, I can't be mad at that. I simply can't. Let them know the information. If this is what he and his truly believed to warn this girl is the right thing to do, in my opinion.

I guess that. And if he...

You know, whatever. It's just, uf. If he truly felt this way. Yeah. And he did truly feel this way. Now, John had fully expected McMaster to retry him for murder, but in the meantime, he wasn't going to let the district attorney or Ash Robinson control the rest of his life. In June of that year, he and Connie did end up getting married in a small ceremony of friends. I'm surprised her parents weren't a little weary of that. Very interesting. Or maybe they were. I'm sure they were to some degree, but she's a grown woman. It was his third marriage and her first. By that point, John's income had been seriously impacted by the case, and most of his savings had also been eaten up to pay for his defense. To make matters worse, the bank that held several of the loans that he had taken out to renovate the house had called in the loan, placing further financial stress on this new couple and preventing them from even taking a honeymoon. Wow. So sad. But still, the couple was happy and excited about their future together. With the new trial more than a year away at this point, everyone pretty much got back to what passed, I guess, for a normal life.

John and his lawyers continued pursuing a civil suit against Ash for slander. Mcmaster ran for and won a seat on the criminal court, and Ash Robinson continued his protracted amateur investigation, I guess we could call it, of John Hill.

It was for the first time in a very long time, mostly quiet in the lives of everybody involved in the case.

Connie even actually felt like John's colleagues and neighbors were finally putting the past behind them and willing to welcome him back into social circles. Things seem to just... It's wild what time does. How people are just willing to forget. Sure. A new case happens. And they just move on. And they just move on. Exactly. So in late September of 1972, she traveled with John to Las Vegas for a plastic surgery convention. Neither of them was particularly fond of Vegas, but the trip was like a honeymoon for them since they hadn't been able to take after the wedding, and they were just really happy to be together, like getting some time away. They returned to Houston on the evening of September 24th and took a cab from the airport back to the house. Both of them were eager to see Robert, little boot, and tell him about the trip. Connie practically ran to the door. She really loved Robert. Well, that's nice. Yeah. She seems like a good woman from what I read. And I hope it seems like they were happy together. So I hope they were. Yeah. So she ran to the door, but when she got to it, she was surprised to find the door locked.

So she pressed the doorbell and waited for a minute, but nobody answered. And inside, all she could hear was the television on, really blaring loud. And she assumed Robert must have just gotten wrapped up in what he was watching and didn't hear the bell. But she also thought, why hadn't John's mother, who was there taking care of Robert, heard it? So she peered through the small window next to the door, and she actually saw a figure moving in their direction, and she figured it was Robert. But as the figure got closer, Connie noticed that this figure was dressed in what looked like a green jumpsuit or coveralls with a hood covering their face. What the fuck? And for a split second, she was like, Why would Robert or Myra, John's mom, be wearing a costume? Like, What? When the door finally did open, Connie saw that it was indeed a hooded figure standing before her, and she still thought it was Robert. So she said, What's this? And for a few seconds, the two just stood at the door looking at one another and not saying anything. What? What? And then it occurred to Connie that the figure before her was actually too tall to be Robert and too large to be Myra.

And before she could call out to John, the man in green grabbed her by a gold-breeded necklace she was wearing and dragged her into the house. Oh my... What? Yeah. Everything happened incredibly quickly from that point. The figure finally spoke telling them that it was a robbery. Connie twisted, trying to get out of the guy's grip. And at this point, John is here, and he steps forward to to protect his wife. And that distracted the intruder and gave the opportunity to Connie to break free of the intruder's grasp. So now free, John pushed Connie out of the way and she ran out the front door toward the neighbor's house to get help. She just reached the house two doors down when she heard a gunshot, and then she heard another. Shut up. So she shouted to her neighbor, My husband's being murdered, just as the neighbor opened the door. What the fuck is going on right now? It's insane. Connie managed to calm herself down enough to call the police once she was inside her neighbor's house and explained what happened. Then she called Dawn Fullenwider, one of John's lawyers who actually lived in their neighborhood.

Dawn races over on foot, and he actually managed to reach the house before the police did. Moving slowly, he approached the front door, which was still slightly open, and he pushed inside. And inside, the house looked fairly undisturbed, but then his eyes settled on something in the middle of the room. Twelve-year-old Robert Hill was standing over his father sobbing with his feet, Robert's feet, and his wrists bound with heavy tape.

He looked up and there was... This is just so sad. It's also very graphic. There was still a piece of tape hanging from the corner of his mouth where somebody had taped his mouth shut.

But at that point, he had been able to get it open. And he looked up and he said, They've killed my daddy. Oh my God, destroy me. Which, like, ruined me. I just want to hug Robert. I know. He went the... This kid went through way too much. What he went through? I was just going to say, my goodness. By the time he was twelve years old. And then you think you're getting... It sounds like Connie really cared about him. It seems like it was going to be a happy home, hopefully. Oh, this is all so complicated and very upsetting.

It's just fucked up. So Follinrider carried the boy outside to the front lawn just as the police and paramedics arrived at the house, and they went back inside with the officers to direct them to John's body.

The paramedic checked for a pulse or any sign of life, but there weren't any. And when they turned the body over, this is pretty bleak. When they turned the body over, they were shocked to find that John's eyes, nose, and mouth were completely covered in the same heavy tape that had been used to bind Robert. What? And there was blood seeping out from underneath. Whoever did this shot? Is that what they did? They shot him? They shot him. And then covered his eyes, nose, and mouth with tape? Or they did that first? Yeah, they did that I think. What the fuck? Yeah, it's very strange. Wow. Yeah. So the paramedics approached a stunned Dawn Fullen-Wider and said, I'm sorry, Mister, we're too late. At just 41 years old, John Hill was dead. 41 years old. Forty-one. Wow. Years old. Wow. So following the declaration of a mistrial, more than a few people wondered whether John Hill was in danger now. Wow. Connie recalled countless countless nights of harassing phone calls. She said that she would spot Ash driving back and forth outside of their house late at night. John's lawyer, Richard Haynes, had even suggested that John hire a bodyguard.

But by that point, John didn't have the money to get one. Eventually, That's awful. What'd you say? Sorry. That's awful. It is, yeah. Eventually, after a few months, the calls did slow down and eventually stopped, and even Ash seemed to slow the frequency of his alleged drive-by, which led Connie to believe that they were out of danger and things were finally settling down.

Like, She had said earlier, it seemed like people were finally chilling out.

But despite the relative calm, few people were all that surprised when the news of John's murder was reported in the press. Id McMaster told a friend, When that old boy signed that letter, Ash Robinson wrote way back in December and then renegged on it, he signed his death warrant. Oh, yeah. Others were less- That's an indictment right there. Black and white. I know. Others were less subtle or quiet about their opinions, which honestly, that wasn't that subtle to me. I don't know if that was about as subtle as a fucking iron slab falling on you. Not very subtle. No, but I guess the other people were like a piano falling on you. Yeah. So just one day after the murder, Richard Haynes told the press He thought the robbery was a cover up and the slaying could have been an assassination, with the implication that Asha Robinson was behind John's murder.

So the first thing detectives did after searching the scene was talk to Robert Hill.

According to the boy, a man had shown up the Hill residence about a half hour before his parents got home and forced his way inside.

After tying up Robert and his grandmother, Myra, the man simply sat in the house and waited for John and Connie to return.

Okay. Robert was in another room when he heard the gun shots, and by the time he managed to get out to where his father was, the intruder was gone.

I mean, that was... That seems like that was the intention. You wait for him to come. Oh, yeah. Kill him, and then you leave. It It was 100 %. That was the intention.

That proves at least the part that this was clearly...

This wasn't just a robbery that John happened to be involved in. No. Not at all. No. It would take a few more days before John's mother, Myra, could speak. I mean, of course. Also, I mean, one, because of the emotional trauma, but she had also been kicked in the throat by the killer. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, that doesn't seem like it would be someone Asha Robinson. Not that I believe that that was really it anyway, but this doesn't seem like it would be connected to Ash Robinson having his own wife kicked in the throat.

I feel like that wouldn't be. That's not his wife. It's John's mom. Oh, John's mom. I forgot this was John's mom. Yeah.

But that also Because it's like having Robert... I don't know. It just doesn't feel... He loved Robert. He loved Robert. I feel like he would never put that kid in.

I don't know, Ash.

I'm acting like I know him.

I'm like, I know him.

From what I've heard here, it seems so unlikely that somebody who loves their grandson that much and dotes on them so much and cares about them would put them through that trauma.

I agree with that. Even for their own gain. I agree with that. And I'm not saying that he did arrange this, but just playing devil's advocate, maybe he didn't know that Robert was going to be home. That's true. Or maybe he had... But he would have to know because if he knows that they're on their trip, where's Robert? If they're not taking care of them, then... Yeah. I don't know. Maybe he didn't want to know the details. Yeah. I mean, it's it's entirely possible. Yeah. I don't know that he... It's all just this is very confusing.

It is. And poor Myra. Yeah. Jeez.

Caked in the throat. Poor everyone involved in this case. Yeah. What have... The tragedy just keeps trickling down. But when she was able to speak, Myra told a nearly identical story to what Robert had told police. According to Myra, they received a call at the house the night before from a man who said his name was James Gleason. There was an urgent tone, she said in his voice, and he was very anxious to speak with John. So Myra said the Hills would be returning the following evening. And as soon as she said that, the man hung up. Oh. Now, hindsight is 2020, but going forward, don't ever tell anybody when your family members or when you are going to be home or anything about your schedule. Don't let people, strangers, know those things. No. The man called again in the next afternoon. And again, Myra said that they would be home that night around 7:30. Oh, there you go. And the man hung up. And Obviously, she didn't know that this would happen. Of course, she didn't. But at about 07:00 PM that night, the doorbell rang. Robert got up to answer it, assuming it was his parents.

But when he opened the door, he found a large man standing before them wearing a hood and what appeared to Myra to be a wig, which that just fucking creeps me out. I hate that. The man raised his gun and pointed it at them, informing them that this was a robbery. He then ordered them into an adjacent room where they were tied up, taped, and just told to sit down and wait. About 20 minutes later, they heard the sound of a car pulling up inside the driveway. And fearing that Robert or Myra might call out to John, the man kicked Robert in the side of the head. What?

Twelve-year-old boy and Myra in the throat, and then left the room.

What the fuck? Myra told the detective she didn't recognize the man, and he never said anything to indicate who he was or why he was there, other than saying it was a robbery. That's terrifying. But he's sitting in the house waiting for them to come home. He's not going through anything. He's not robbing them. He's just tying them up. Exactly. What the fuck?

So, sensing the gravity of the situation, Dr. Joseph Yehimchik decided to handle the case himself on behalf of the coroner's office.

He's like, I'm already pretty involved in this. I'm already deep in this. John had been shot, it turned out, three times with a 38 caliber revolver.

He'd been shot once in the wrist, which I'm assuming was in a struggle. A defense. Mm-hmm. Once in the right shoulder. The third shot was the fatal one, which was through the stomach, and it severed his aorta.

Oh, yeah. Oh, the bleeding. Yeah. Yehimchik estimated that, this is horrible, John likely blood internally for 3 to 5 minutes before dying from his wounds. So this was, unfortunately, a slow death. Oh, awful. There were also deep scratches and abrasions on his face and arms, which the coroner interpreted as a sign that John had put up a considerable fight before sustaining the disabling shot. Yeah. I mean, your kid is in the house. Of course. You're going to fight. Yeah. The detectives at the scene started operating from the position that John's death was simply a robbery gone wrong.

I guess that's all they had at that point. I mean, what else are you going to go about it? And if you start from there, then maybe you can figure it out along the way. You're looking at it very unbiasedly there. Yeah. So maybe I think that is the smart way instead of going in with a preconceived notion of like, something strange happened here.

Right. And there were signs that maybe this was a robbery because John's briefcase and wallet were missing. And the man who had killed him, like we know, said more than once that it was a robbery.

But as far as anybody could tell, once they started going through everything, the killer hadn't even entered or seemed interested in the rooms, the other rooms in the house besides the one where the murder took place, or the murder, excuse me, took place, which obviously struck the investigators as strange because John and Connie's house was full of valuable items that would have attracted the attention of a robber.

And again, why are you waiting for the other people to come home? You've already subdued the grandmother and the child.

So now this would be your chance to go take anything you want and get the fuck out of there before somebody who's maybe more in the prime time to fight back with you is coming home. And especially, he got there at 7:00.

Myra had told him, my son, who it seems like you're looking for, or this collar, this mystery collar. And if this is, if that was set up as a robbery and it is connected, you'd have a half hour to get all the shit you and get on out. Get all the shit, get out before they get home. And not have to kill anybody. So, yeah, no. There's no way. So other than that, those couple of things, the scene was light on evidence.

And after six hours of searching the premises, the most that the detectives found were the rolls of tape used to bind Robert and Myra, one of the fingers from the work gloves that the intruder wore, and the green hood that he had been wearing, which turned out to be a cheap green pillowcase with holes cut out so that he could see.

Oh, my God. That is like the strangers. Yes. Oh, I hate that. Oh, it freaks me a lot. Oh, God.

Poor Robert and poor Myra. Like seeing that. And Connie to open your door to that. Oh, my God.

I forgot that she just... Oh, yeah. Oh, I hate this. That's something.

And that's hard, obviously.

That's hard, obviously. That's out of a nightmare. Later, when the evidence had been processed, the detectives would be disappointed to find that no fingerprints had been left anywhere. Of course. Mm-hmm. Of course. So about a week later, lead Detective Jerry Carpenter got a call that some kids had found John's briefcase in some bushes a few miles from the home. When he arrived, Carpenter was disappointed to find that all the children in the neighborhood had heavily handled the briefcase. But as he searched around the site for additional evidence, he noticed what he thought was a pipe covered in leaves and mud. But as he started pulling it out of the dirt, he realized it was not a pipe, but a 38 revolver. Oh, what? Which is what John was shot with. When the ballistics test finally came back a few days later, they confirmed that the revolver discovered in the lot with the briefcase was the exact same one that had been used to kill John Hill. Only a few miles from the house, they threw it in a bush? Yeah. The fuck? Yeah. That's weird. So, Detectives, this is where shit is going to go.

It goes even more wily. You couldn't make this. You would watch this in a movie and be like, They did a little too much here. I'm not following. What? I'm going to do my best. It's not that complicated, but it's just you're like, what? What? So detectives trace the gun back to Dr.

Oren, I believe it's Stabes or Stabes.

What? A Washington, DC doctor. He sheepishly informed detectives that he had indeed purchased the gun while he was in Texas on business, but that it had been stolen from him by a sex worker that he had hired while he was asleep. And he said that this sex worker also stole one of his cars. Damn. He couldn't remember much about the woman, but he said that she referred to herself by the name Dusty, and he thought that her real name was Marsha McKedrick.

Okay. Mckedrick.

Using his former vice squad contacts, Carpenter learned that there was indeed a sex worker in Houston who did operate under the name Dusty, and that she would likely found in the company. Excuse me, in the company. The company. The company. It's a fancy company. A company. The company of her boyfriend, Bobby Van Diver, and an older woman by the name of Lillipolis. What the fuck is going on? I told you. It gets very, very complicated. Okay. After months of dead ends and dried up leads, the investigators finally managed to track down all three of these people at Lilla's home in Houston. All were arrested without incident on April 27, 1973. At first, all three were very uncooperative with investigators. They all denied any involvement in the murder. They refused to say anything else to detectives other than-How the fuck did your gun end up there? Or the gun that you stole. The gun that you stole. But things started to change when Myra and Robert Hill were brought into the precinct for a lineup. Of the men standing on the other side of the glass, only two looked vaguely familiar to Robert, but he couldn't be certain if either was the an intruder.

Myra, on the other hand, had absolutely no doubt about it.

After looking each person over carefully and listening to their voices, she identified Bobby, Bobby Van Diver, as the man who had broken into their home and attacked them.

Whoa. Yeah. It took a few days of contemplation and back and forth with investigators before Bobby finally accepted that there was likely not any way out of this situation, and he agreed to talk to Carpenter. According to Bobby, it was late in... Excuse me. It was August 1972 when Lilla, the older woman who... I think they were just friends with her.

Yeah.

Lilla started talking about a contract on someone's life with a $5,000 payout. Shut the fuck up. Ordinarily, Bobby didn't do things like that, he said, but he was particularly broke at the time, and he told her that he'd think about it. I love ordinarily, I wouldn't. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be a highly-high hit man. Ordinarily, I wouldn't kill people for money, but... But in tough times, you know? Yeah. Jesus Christ. So a few days later, Lilla called to say that somebody else had taken the job. So forget it. But then a few days after that, she called again and she said that had fallen through and Bobby, it's still available if you want it.

He told the detective, She told me that the contract was on a doctor who had killed his wife, and it was the wife's father who was wanting him dead.

Oh, boy. During his statement, Bobby knew all the details of the case, from the location of the Hill's house to their schedules When Lilla gave Bobby the photo of his target, it had been cut along the corners into the shape of a coffin, which she said had been done by ash.

That is theatrical.

Theatrical as fuck.

Marsha helped gather the information and tracked the Hill's movements to make sure that everything would work out as planned.

Bobby's description of the Night of the Murders was nearly identical to what the investigators had been told by Robert and Myra. He told Carpenter, I got the pillowcase from Lillipolis's house. What the fuck? This is so fucked up. It's unreal. His account of the murder not only matched the witness's statements, but it also fit with the theory and the evidence collected at the scene and from the body. But the problem was, while they believed what Bobby had told them, their entire case was turning into this in this gigantic conspiracy. Because now we're bringing Ash Robinson into it and saying he contracted these people. Now we have to prove that. How do we prove Holy shit. This just keeps turning. This is one of the most twisty, turny cases that I have ever read of. It really is.

The biggest challenge facing the district attorney at that point was, according to Texas law, a jury could not convict a person based solely on the testimony of their accomplice.

That's to say, Bobby might have confessed to the murder, but in order to get additional convictions for his girlfriend, Marsha McKittrick and Lilla Paulus and Ash Robinson, they would all need to have corroborating testimony. Oh, shit. But still, prosecutor Bob Bennett decided to bring the case before a grand jury who indicted Bobby Van Diver and Marsha McCritic for first-degree murder and Lilla Paulus as an accomplice.

Wow. While they waited for the trial date to come, Bennett put Bobby VanDyver and his wife, who was not Marsha. Oh my these men. I know. Up in a motel where it was basically a house arrest where Bobby agreed to stay in the motel unless given explicit permission to go anywhere else. In June of 1973, Bobby explained that his wife, Vicky, had been engaged in a bitter custody battle with the father of her child and needed to travel to Dallas for a hearing, and he was seeking permission to accompany her and stay there for the duration of that trial.

So I just want to get this straight. Totally. I got it.

His wife is trying to get custody of a child while married to a man who admitted to just doing a contract killing? Yup.

Or I don't know if she currently had custody.

Don't give them custody.

Yeah, don't give them custody. I know this is long ago in the past, but hope that kid is okay because the fact that he's like, I would like to join her for that custody hearing, it's like, My guy, I don't think you should. Yeah, I think that's actually really bad. I think that's going to be a strike against her. Yeah, you would think. It's like you are living in a motel right now because you have to. Because you just admitted to doing a contract killing, kicking a grandma on the throat, and kicking a kid in the head.

And murdering a man.

After murdering a man. Brutally. And you would have murdered Connie if she had not gotten out of the house. Like, no one's all right. No one is okay. No one's okay here. No. This is really wild. I just can't my brain won't wrap around to any of these people's actions or thoughts. And when we say no one, we mean no one. Literally no one. Because given how cooperative Bobby had been to that point, Bennett said, yeah, you can go travel to that custody hearing on the condition that you check in with me regularly in return for your trial, which is scheduled for September. So you really meant No one. No, I straight up meant no one. No one's all right. Now, you're going to be shocked to hear that months passed and Bobby actually did seem to be following the rules laid out by Bennett. That is shocking. Which set the prosecutor's mind at ease.

He even showed up for his trial in September, just as he was expected to do. But upon his arrival, he learned that the trial would be delayed and was rescheduled for April 1974.

Unfortunately for Bennett, when the trial date finally did arrive, Bobby was nowhere to be seen. Yeah. Maybe the reality of a first-degree murder conviction was finally setting in, or maybe he had just gotten tired of waiting around. But whatever the case, after the trial was rescheduled, Bobby decided not to return to Dallas, and instead read, he and Vicky went on the run. Hopefully without that child.

I don't think the child was with them.

I actually cannot confirm that. I really hope not. I'm going to say for my own and for everybody's peace of mind that no.

They were not.

And that child is an adult now, and it's fine. Yeah, totally fine.

They ended up settling in Longview, Texas.

They both settled in Longview, Texas, and he underwent the name J. C. Sheridan. Wow. He took on an alias. Yeah. As one of the smaller cities in Texas, Longview's law enforcement agencies had tendency to know and keep tabs on the local troublemakers. So when officer John Raymer noticed a new car and two new faces hanging out at the local pool halls and bars. It's so small town. I love it. It's so. He made a point of finding out who this new couple was.

He had good instincts, and he prided himself on his ability to size people up with reasonable accuracy.

I mean, he's doing good so far. He is. This guy... The end of this is truly a movie. It's like a movie. It is. It sounds ridiculous, but it's real. As soon he saw, quote, unquote, J. C. Sheridan, he figured the guy was in town for one of four reasons: to sell drugs, to look for an underw rolled contract, pimping, or he was on the run. After getting Sheridan's name, Raymer ran the man through every database he could think of, and he came up with nothing under the name J. C. Sheridan, of course. But still, something didn't seem right with this new guy in town. So he was like, I'm going to keep a close eye on this one. Good for you, man. Yeah, instincts. Strangely Luckily enough, Bobby's arrival in Longview did coincide with a startling increase in bar room fights and fatalities around the area. You don't say. So weird. And law enforcement officials had been on high alert for any report.

I was reading alert and reports at the same time alert.

They've been on high alert for any reports of bar fights or problems at drinking establishment. And on the evening of May 11th, John Reimer was punching out of work and he went down to the Continental where Vicky was working as a waitress at the time.

He was just drinking his coffee and he heard a commotion on the other side of the room.

The noise turned out to be coming from a drunk person just harmlessly ranting about something. But as he scanned the rest of the room, he did lock eyes with J. C. Sheridan, a. K. A. Bobby, who was playing pool. They stared at one another briefly, and then Bobby gently set his cue down on the table and made a hasty exit toward the back door. Subtle. Yeah. His quick exit only made him more suspicious in Ramer's eyes. Not subtle. But things felt too tense in the bar that night. So Ramer thought it was best to just stick around and make sure things didn't get out of hand in the bar. And he was like, I'm going to table that. Yeah. He was like, You know what? He was like, You know what? That JC Sheridan character. I'm going to let that just settle, marinate a little bit. Yeah, just for now.

But a few days later, he had gotten off of work and was settling into bed at home when his phone rang. The anonymous voice on the other end sounded young and slightly gruff, not anybody he recognized.

The collar informed Ramer that the man he'd been keeping an eye on in Longview was not J. C. Sheridan, but Bobby Van Diver, a man who had recently gone on the lam to avoid first-degree murder.

Wow. Yeah. A murder charges, excuse me. Having learned this new information, Raymer knew that he was not going to be able to sleep at this point.

So he got back to the office and he called the Mesquite Police to get a physical description of Bobby. His contact at the Mesquite Police Department said they would get back to him with a photo identification by teletype. Teletype. Teletype. Rather than wait for the image to reach him, though, Ramer went out to patrol in the hopes that he might find Bobby on the street somewhere. Ramer is like... He's that one chain smoking in his office. Yeah, he's the detective here. I'm like, All right, Raymer. Yeah. All right. He's got instincts. Damn. And they're right. And he was right. He was dead on. Dead on. Just, that's cool. That is cool. To just see some guy and be I don't know. I'm sorry, Raymer is the MVP here. That's cool. Yeah. And he's just not given up either. He's not letting it go. He's like, Something's up here. Quintessential small town cop from a movie in Texas.

I love it. In Texas. He lives in a saloon, and I know. Yeah. He lives in a saloon. His whole house is swinging doors. He has a swinging door. Exactly. He's brain telepathy right there. So he's like, Yeah, I'm going to go out and find this motherfucker. He was just outside of the Continental when he got a radio communication asking him to contact the Department.

He found the nearest pay phone and he called the Department. Of course, he got the confirmation that J. C. Sheridan was Bobby. More importantly, during an arrest for drunk driving in February, Bobby told the arresting officer, he would kill the next officer who tried to arrest him. Wow. So now Raymer's like, fuck. Shit. Now, he knew that Bobby at this point was inside the Continental.

And under the circumstances, though, he called for backup and waited for them to arrive before attempting the arrest.

Raymer keeps getting better. Yeah. He's not going in there like an idiot. He's like, I just heard straight up, black and white, I'm going to kill the next officer who tries to arrest me. I'm not going to blow myself in there. No. I'm going to get some backup. This man's taking all the right steps. He is. I'm impressed by Ramer. I am, too. I hope I continue to be. You will. Don't disappoint me. Okay. I was like, Don't make him bad.

Yeah.

So with a plain clothes officer positioned outside the back door, Raymer entered the Continental and approached the area with the pool tables, of course. When he called out Bobby's name, Bobby, Bobby looked up in surprise to see that Raymer was walking towards him with his gun drawn. Like, Motherfucker, you're under arrest. I love that he called out Bobby. And Bobby looked up. Because you know instinctively he's going to look up. With Ramer standing directly in front of him, the two men stared at one another for a few seconds, and then Bobby reached for the gun in Raymer's hand, attempting to push it aside while then reaching for his own gun with the other hand. Damn. So instinctively, Raymer fired, but Bobby's hand had pushed the gun down and the bullet ricocheted off the floor and launched in the ceiling.

Damn. However, the heat from the discharge made the barrel of the gun really hot, which made Bobby let go, and that gave Raymer the opportunity to get him down.

What an intense takedown. This is a shootout.

So Raymer fired a second shot, this time directly into Bobby's chest at Point Blake range because he was about to shoot him.

He was. He was reaching for his weapon. You got to do that. And this shot tore a huge hole in Bobby's body. Oh, damn.

Bobby grabbed desperately at Raymer and dragged him to the floor with him.

Vicky ran over to her husband in terror, pushing Raymer and the other officer aside. But by the time she had Bobby's head in her hands, he was already dead. Holy shit. So he died. Now, with Bobby VanDiver dead, or VanDiver dead, Bob Bennett's case against those involved in John Hill's murder was in peril. Yeah, I was just going to say that fucked everything up, though. It did fuck everything up. Oh, no. Which you can't be disappointed in Raymer because he didn't really have another option there. I mean, that's- That was a situation of kill or be killed. Wow. Yeah. But it fucked this up. Yeah, it fucked this up. Yeah. Marsha McCritic's lawyer argued that... Excuse me, McKittrick's lawyer argued that since Bobby was dead couldn't testify, the prosecutor was in danger of violating Marsha's sixth Amendment right to face her accuser. Because Bobby accused her of being involved. The way that multiple trials in this case just get fucked by the most minute details. The weirdest in like... Yeah. And just tiny little loopholes. So the judge shot down the lawyer's movement to dismiss the case, but Bennett knew the lawyer had a point.

So rather at this point than risk a mistrial or an acquittal, Bennett actually struck a deal with Marsha to plea no contest and accept the guilt as an accomplice in Hill's murder, particularly as the driver of the car. Okay. As a result of her plea, Marsha was given a sentence of 10 years in prison and was paroled after five years. So she took the deal. Damn. Mm-hmm. Now, Lillia Paulus went to trial in February of 1975 on a charge of being an accomplice to murder. As part of her plea deal, Marsha had testified against Lillia, though she only did so after her immunity was granted. Of course. She told the court that Lillia had been paid $25,000 by Ash Robinson to arrange the murder of his former son-in-law, and 5,000 of that was what she offered Bobby to actually do the killing, which I was like, whoa, you only got 5,000 of the $25,000 and you're doing the hit? Damn.

That's a bad deal. It's a bad deal no matter what because you're murdering someone. But in the end, Lillapolis's trial was lengthy and involved many of the Hill's closest friends and associates, but the link between Lillapolis and Ash was tenuous at best. Really? As expected when he was called to the stand, Ash, of course, strongly denied playing any role in John's death and told the court, I didn't want him dead.

His killing didn't solve any problems of mine. I mean. Which like... He makes a valid point. Yeah. What good is he dead? My daughter is dead. It sounds like what he wants is I want him to put behind bars. He's like, My whole pursuit here was justice. Yeah. That's not. That just ends it. Now it's over. I mean, I guess it depends on his definition of justice. Exactly. And it depends on if he was willing to... He just wanted it over. Right. And this was the closest thing to justice, which, again, who knows? Not me. Now, Lillipal- I really wanted to believe, and I still want to believe that Ash didn't have anything to do with this. You'll never really know, to be honest with you. But we'll never know. But I really just want to believe he didn't. I know. Well, Lillipal has tried everything she could think of to put distance between herself and the murder, including telling the jury that Jerry Carpenter had manipulated her into implicating Ash. Jesus. Saying that she would get immunity if she accused Ash. Oh, the plot thickens. But in the end, the jury believed the prosecutor and sentenced Lilla to 35 years in prison.

The sentence was overturned on appeal in 1981, but it was actually then reinstated by the criminal court the next year. Unfortunately, if she was innocent, Lillipolis died from breast cancer in prison in 1986. Oh, wow. Very complicated. In 1977, Connie Hill filed a $7.6 million civil suit against Ash Robinson, alleging that he had colluded with Paulus to have John murdered. In court, Myra Hill told the jury that Ash had been obsessed with John ever since Jones' death and was fiendishly vindictive towards her son. In his defense, Ash told the jury, the jury, this has been a It has. He told the jury, I did want him prosecuted, and if he was guilty, then convicted and pushed for it, punished for it. But there was no intention any which way in the world of killing him or having him killed. Okay. So he's like, I didn't do it. In the end, the jury ruled 10 to 2 against the Hills, stating that while he may have been responsible for a certain amount in emotional damages, Mr. Robinson was not guilty of the conspiracy charge, and he could not be forced to pay for what had already for what he had already been cleared of by a higher court.

Damn. Now, in 1980, CBS News aird a segment on the case alleging that it was very possible Joan Robinson Hill had died from a newly discovered medical condition known as toxic shock. Oh. Yes. First identified in the late '70s. Toxic shock syndrome. Yeah. Scariest thing ever. Scariest thing ever, especially as a woman. Yeah. Because it was first identified in the late '70s and associated with tampon use. Toxic shock syndrome causes many of the symptoms Joan experienced right before her death and would have explained the rapid onset and quick deterioration.

Wow. And as it hadn't been established in the medical community at that point in time, it also could have accounted for the multiple conflicting causes of death.

Because nobody could pinpoint it because they didn't know a lot about it. At this point, we'll never know because everything has been so compromised at this point. Wow. Now, when the news of the new theory broke, John's former lawyer, Richard Haynes, told reporters, I'm not a doctor, but I'm satisfied in my own mind that Joan Robinson Hill met her death, unkindly as it was, as a consequence of what we now know to be toxic shock. Wow. Which he can't say that definitively. No, of course not. It's a possibility. He's saying that that's what makes him sleep at night. He's saying that's what makes him sleep at night. Exactly. That's the perfect way to put it. But still, we don't know. That very well could be it, but there was a point in time where it very well It could have been hepatitis, and then everybody was like, no, there's no way it's hepatitis. And then it could have been a bacterial infection, and then there was no way it was a bacterial infection.

So we'll never know, unfortunately. But after the end of all the trials, Ash and Raya Robinson relocated to Florida, where they lived out the rest of their lives.

In 1981, after years of bitterness, Robert Hill reconciled with his grandparents and maintained a good relationship with them until their deaths. Good for him.

And Ash Robinson died of natural causes in February January 1986 at the age of 87. Wow. And that is the wildly complicated case of the death of Joan Robinson Hill and the murder of John Hill. I am blown away by that.

At the end of it, you don't even know what to believe in either case.

I have no idea what happened anywhere in that case. Because it's like- No idea. I don't know if Ash hired somebody or not, but why would somebody else just randomly kill John? Other than- I don't know. I can't... I don't know.

Because also it's like, what happened with Anne?

I know. Sounds like there was a lot of shit going on there? And it's like, was any of that true? But then it sounds like Connie was very happy in her relationship with John. But it's like, sometimes that. Sometimes that happens, of course. That happens. We'll never fucking know.

Because it's not like She was without enemies. I mean, look at Anne is an enemy of his. Absolutely. It might have some people around her who were not happy with John or how she was claiming to be treated. That's a good point. You know what? I didn't think of that. So it's like, so good. That's a whole other. Again, I'm not saying she did anything or like, she hired anybody or knows anybody that hired anything. Yeah. Just saying that the buck doesn't stop with Ash Robinson there as the only person who could have possibly been this angry with John Hill.

Very good point. I didn't even think of that avenue. And there's also- You can see it. He made enemies within the doctors. The medical community.

The medical field.

Sorry. This case has been so long. I'm like, I can't think. Within the medical field because I'm sure some people believed that he had killed his wife. Yeah.

And didn't he have some malpractice? He had that one malpractice thing. It was so long ago at that point that I don't know.

It was a long time ago.

So there was that. But it's just to say that there was some stuff.

And obviously the Asha Robinson thing, there's some pieces that you can sit there and put together and go, well, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But some other stuff could make sense, too, which is unfortunate. Yeah. Either way, it sounds like everybody just... What a complicated, awful, tragic, in every way conceivable story. Truly. And I really think that's the perfect sign off for it. Yeah, truly. With that being said, we hope you keep listening. And we I hope you- Keep it weird. Oh, but I don't even know where to go with that. Not even slightly this weird. Yeah, don't even- Don't even think about it. You know that. Yeah, don't. Love you. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Morbid early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with WNDRI Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wndri. Com/survey.