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I'm Dan Tabersky.

In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. What's the answer? And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

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Hey, weirdos. I'm Elaina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.

And I just waved at you.

You did. You waved at me and it was... It wasn't off-putting.

I didn't wave at you. I waved at the weirdos.

Well, that's the end of this episode because I quit.

I'm done. She didn't wave at me.

Fuck that.

If it makes you feel better, I just knocked Mustanual over and all the ice chattered. Good.

Didn't spill anymore. That was instinct karma. It was, actually.

It would have been more karmithic.

Karmithic.

Karmithic. Karmithic.

I like that.

It spilled on me, but it didn't. But anyway, I'm going to move it.

That's a great idea because it'll klang, klang, klang. Live updates with that. And bang, bang, bang.

So. So, yeah.

What updates do we have? Do we have updates?

We don't even know when this is going out. So.

No, we don't.

You should buy Lena's book, obviously.

Pre-order that book, The Butcher Game. It's coming out September 17th. You can pre-order it anywhere. But thebutchergame. Com has all the places. Barnes & Noble, smaller bookstores, Amazon, all those. Target, all those places. There you go. All of them.

By the time you're hearing this, we probably made another new TikTok. So go over to elaina2themax.

And go see that TikTok. And if it inspires you, pre-order that book.

And interact with the Tickety Tockety.

With the Tickety Tockety.

I did a chimie, but I did arm day yesterday. So it was a light chimie. No, but it hurt Right here. Like under my armpits.

You're like, right here.

But I'm getting swole.

You know what else is getting swole? Because we've been in a humid heatwave. All the doors.

Every door that existed on the East Coast.

Every time you open a door in Massachusetts right now, it's like a CrossFit event to open the door.

We had that problem at our apartment. It would get super deeper swollen. And in the summer and you'd have to slam it. And then in the wintertime, it wouldn't latch properly when you closed it because I think it fucked up the alignment of it.

Oh, yeah. That makes sense. It's annoying. So that's Swollen Doors with Ash and Elaina. It's a new segment that we're introducing today. Where we just talk about all the swollen doors.

Look out for the next one.

The evidencey. So today's episode is so sad. I believe that. It's so sad. And it's a little local here. It's the Hartford Circus Fire. And yes, we're talking about Hartford, Connecticut.

I've been there.

You have been there. We've all been there. This is really... It's from 1944. Okay. Sort of old-timey. Yeah, a little... I mean, it's where I live, and it's just a really sad story. It's very tragic. A lot of people lost their lives. A lot of people got hurt. It's a very unsettling scene. Just warning you.

It's like the intro to all of your cases. Unfortunately. It's so unsettling. It's tragic. It's- It's all those things. Horrifically sad, all of the above.

Yeah, all of the above. So Without further ado, I suppose we just get into it. Let's go. So first things first. You're the realist. I'm the realist. I never really liked the circus because I don't like animal shows. I don't like animals having to do tricks.

Yeah, I think I'm trying to think of like, because I know one of my mom's boyfriends was like, Let me impress this bitch, and took me to the circus, like with my mom. And I'm trying to think if animal... It's only recent that animal were taken out of the circus, right?

Let's look it up.

Because, I mean, childhood trauma makes it so that I don't recall a lot of events in my life. But I can't remember if there was animals there or not.

I think it was...

I feel like it was like, recent.

Fairly I'm trying to look.

Do you remember animals being there when you went to the circus?

I have. I do not remember specifically what was there. I do remember my dad took me when I was much younger.

Which is adorable. When When your dad takes you, it's cool. Yeah. When your mom's boyfriend takes you, you're like, who's this fucker? Like, thanks for trying to take me somewhere, but I don't even know you.

Yeah. See, my dad did like the... He loved to do just the me and him hangout. I love that. So he would take me to all the Disney movies that came out. What was that like? That was his thing. I'm just kidding. Sorry. It was great. I will say. No. Papa did fun shit with us. He did. He did a great job. And this was one of the things he did because he's an electrician. At one point, he did the lights for the show.

He also did the lights for a Céline Dion concert. He did. And then he met her in the elevator and he said she was one of the nicest people he's ever met in his life. He did.

And he said one of the most... She was a very beautiful woman in person, too. She is beautiful. So that was very nice. And He also did the lights for the Olympic trials, the gymnastics trials once.

I don't think I fucking knew that.

Yeah, he took tons of pictures and he gave me all the pictures because I used to love watching the gymnastics. That's cool. Yeah. Damn, I don't know that I knew that. Yeah.

Pup is He's the coolest.

He's pretty cool. He's done a lot. He was in a submarine. He was thinking of him being in a submarine at the bottom of the ocean for months at a time. I'm like, you're a badass.

Months at a time. Actually, wait, can you tell the story? Because I don't tell it perfectly, but how he hurt his back.

How he hurt his back. So the story is that my dad was almost paralyzed in the military. Yeah. He was in horrible shape when he got out of it. And some guy was about to fall down the ladder in the hatch. I don't know how this works. All I know- Don't at me. Don't at me about it because he doesn't even really talk about it. He told us the story once. Yeah.

Ma tells it sometimes.

But he grabbed the guy and as he grabbed the guy to try to help him, he slipped and hit his back on the rungs of the ladder and then fell down into the hatch. And he ended up having to have crazy surgeries on his back. He's got a massive scar on his back. It's crazy. But he walks around like it's nothing now.

I think he literally had to learn how to walk again.

And now it's like you'd never know it happened unless you see his back and you see that giant massive scar on his back.

I think it might have been like a rogue wave or something.

Yeah, I was going to say there was a reason that something happened that jostled everything where this person fell. But he was trying to help that guy out and he grabbed him. That's our guy. Because that's our guy.

That's what he does.

That's our guy right there.

He helps.

But yeah, so He's a pretty big badass, and he did the lights for the fucking circus.

Have you figured out when they got rid of the animals?

I haven't figured it out. It's hard to figure out. I feel like it was always a thing that people were up in arms about. It always became a thing where people were questioning how these animals were treated and whether this was humane or not. The answer to me is no, it is not humane.

Did you ever watch that movie, Water Water for Elephants?

No, of course I didn't watch that movie. Yeah, that checks. It would make me cry, and I don't want that.

Oh, I can't watch it anymore, but I watched it one time, and it made me absolutely sob.

Yeah, see, and that's the thing. I've heard that that's the reaction. And anytime somebody tells me a movie made me sob, it's off my... I don't like being manipulated by movies to cry.

I get that. Sometimes I watch a movie if I have to cry, but there's certain movies that I'm like, I can't cry. I can't have that cry.

Because it's a different cry. When it's gut-wrenching and you're like, now I just feel sad.

Yeah. If I'm feeling sad for an animal, I'm not going to recover for days. And also, elephants are my favorite animals.

Yeah. So that's all bad. But getting into this, on July sixth, 1944, an estimated 7,000 people, mostly women and children, gathered at the Barber Street Fairgrounds in Hartford, Connecticut to see the Ringling Brothers in Barnum and Bailey Circus. After the Lion's Show had just ended, tragedy struck. Oh, no. Within 10 minutes, the entire tent had burned to the ground. 139 people were dead, and hundreds were badly injured. And in the weeks that followed, another 28 would die from their injuries.

Oh, my God. Yeah.

It was like a massive loss of life. At the time, the Hartford Circus fire was one of the worst fires in American history, and it remains one of the biggest tragedies in the state's history, especially. I believe it. So in In the summer of 1944, just to give you an idea of what was going on then and why there were just so many women and children and elderly people in attendance to this one particular show. In the summer of 1944, as the Allied forces were beginning to overtake the Nazis across Europe, Americans at home were just trying to find ways to distract themselves from the horrific losses of life, the Normandy invasion, the battlefields. You were hearing all kinds of awful stuff. Yeah. And among the more popular summer pastimes in both 1944 and years before that were the things we think of, the fairs, the carnivals. You think of those old-timey carnivals and stuff.

And they were newer, too, at that point in time.

And circuses that traveled to small towns and big cities across the country. And each year, companies of varying quality would bring their animal shows, their games, their various big tops, all those attractions to town. And locals could just pay a small fee and spend the day being entertained, eat some carnival food, ride some rides.

One thing about me, I fucking love carnival food.

Oh, carnival food is top-notch.

I thought you were going to say toxic.

No, absolutely it is. But it's too much. Yeah, also toxic. Toxic, yes.

Fried dough me the fuck up.

You will never... John loves a fried dough. Yes. That man, I feel like I should just, for one of his birthdays, just have several food trucks of different fried doughs show up at the house.

Obviously, you're going to invite me to that. But if you don't invite me to that, I'm going to kick you. I'm going to kick your shins. I'm going to kick you in the shins.

And honestly, that's a scary threat. That's fair enough. But when it came to the circus, there was none better. At the time, thought none better quality and more well known than Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bayly Circus, which everybody knows those names. Yes. So the Ringling Brothers in Barnum and Bailey Circus officially began operating when the two businesses merged in 1919. Oh, wow. I was going to say it all was much earlier.

Yeah, I didn't actually realize that.

Yeah, but their individual history These days date back to the early 19th century in one form or another.

Oh, fuck me then. I was like, Yeah, this was a new thing, everybody.

I know when you said it, I was like, maybe.

They were like, I have a sentence coming up that's going to rock your world, bitch.

But within a decade, the organization had purchased other traveling companies and consolidated them into one large exhibition that they dubbed, what did they dub it, Everybody? The Greatest Show on Earth.

Oh, wow. Was it?

The circus generally traveled from one location to another by train because, I mean, train was the way to travel. Yeah. It carried the entire operation, the train. Performers, tents, animals, attractions, it all came on the same thing. I saw Water for elephants. There you go. Following the merger, the company employed over more than like a thousand people at that point. Wow. Yeah. And they all traveled with dozens of camels, large cats, bears, more than two dozen elephants, and over 700 horses, and countless other animals. Those poor animals. But think about it, two dozen elephants, when elephants are in short supply right now. Yeah. And two dozen of them were just working for the circus.

And just like stuffed into train cars. They're fucking elephants and bears, and big cats. It's like- Like, lions.

All these animals are endangered now. Yeah. And you wonder why. Yeah. Now, throughout the economic turmoil of the first half of the 20th century, traveling circuses, and Ringling Brothers in particular, became really important opportunities for short and long term employment. They offered a lot of opportunities for work, and especially those who were desperate just to do any work. They could take it. In fact, by the early 1940s, their power and influence was so crazy that President Roosevelt, recognizing the relief from wartime tensions that the circus could provide for the American public, granted them special rail privileges. Wow. The President.

That's crazy.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, others were restricted due to military activities. So they got this special privilege to go on the rail just to get to these places because he recognized Listen, everybody needs a distraction. We all need to be entertained by something. Yeah. Now, despite their power and influence, or maybe because of it, Wringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey were often targets of criticism for a number of issues. She told me that. They're frequently inhumane treatment of animals, which is just proven. Fuck. There was exploitation of workers. There was a lot of lax safety protocols. I'm sure. While there are always going to be some amount of risk, especially around such a large scale operation like this, particularly one with unpredictable wild animals. Other issues, like fire safety, was something that management should have had better control of. Absolutely. You know you're going to have risk. You have performers that are doing very dangerous things that you can't necessarily control.

You have performers tossing fire into the sky.

Yeah. It's like, and wild animals, you can't control wild animals. You try to, and you can do it for a little bit of time, but you're never really in control. No. But when it comes to the safety issues, they should have been able to control some of these. They should have put better stuff in place. Definitely. And circus fires were actually a common occurrence at Ringling Brothers and others. Circus fires happened a lot. There's a very common and well-known joke that when you say, Have you heard of a circus fire? And somebody says, It was intense. What? And you say, It was intense. And it's supposed to be that double little, It was intense, but also it was in the tense. In the tense. I love that joke, but after reading this, now I feel icky about that joke.

Yeah, that's fair.

You know, that's one of my favorite little like, Oh, I have a funny little joke for you. Have you heard about the circus fire? And now I'm like, I have heard about the circus fire, and it's very sad.

That's the thing. I think a lot of people telling that joke hadn't heard about the circus fire. It's true.

And now there's a lot of circus fires when you look into it. It happened a lot. But in 1940, for example, a fire at the Clyde Bady Circus Stop in Rochester, Indiana, resulted in the death of a majority of the circus's animals, including in this- Oh, no. This will destroy you. No. Six lions. No. Six lions died in a circus fire. Oh, that's horrible. I'm not saying that one loss of life is worth more than the other. I'm not saying- No, obviously. I know humans died, but this one in particular, the animals were the ones who died. There was no human deaths. But six lions, two leopards, 15 antelope, and 100 monkeys all died in that fire when the fire broke out in the animal pens. Oh, my God. That's horrific.

Oh, my God.

That makes me want to cry. And again, so many of these animals are fucking endangered. They're going extinct, and it's like, what the fuck? Six lions?

And you Is it more than 100 monkeys?

More, at least 100 monkeys. And a similar tragedy occurred during a 1942 Ringling Brothers show in Cleveland, Ohio, and that resulted in the death of dozens of animals and an estimated $125,000 in damage. Damn. And that was in 1942. And that was back then. Right.

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We are so excited to be partnering with Embark, the provider of the most accurate dog DNA test on the market, and honestly, the best gift to get the dog lover in your life. Right up at the top, we'd really love to thank embarkevet. Com com for supporting Morbid. Go to EmbarkVet. Com to get free shipping and save $50 on the breed plus health test with promo code Morbid. You guys know how much I love Sydney and Blanche. They are the lights of my life. I love them so much, and they know everything about me. They've been with me through my worst moments, through my happiest moments when I'm sad. So I feel like I should know more about them, and that's why I really wanted to do the Embark test for them. And the health test to me was really important because as you guys know, we lost our beloved Bayly, and there were some things that it would have been nice to know a lot sooner. Might have been things that we should have watched out for with Baba. But with Sid and Blanche, I was able to get that test back, and I looked at it, and guys, we can all rejoice because there's nothing glaring, nothing really worrying that we really have to look out for.

And now we can just be vigilant, like normal vigilant, but we don't have to actually seriously worry about something. Get the dog DNA test that is trusted by millions. Right now, Embark has a limited time offer on their breed and health test for our listeners. Go to embarkevet. Com to get free shipping and save $50 with promo code Morbid. Visit embarkvet. Com and use promo code Morbid to save $50 today. Now, because of the frequency and cost of circus fires, accidental and otherwise, one would assume circus managers would be a little more vigilant when it came to fire safety. Maybe. But the problem just kept on going through the decades with, honestly, very little attention paid to it.

Because they just figured they could just get more animals, just keep going.

Yeah, we're just letting animals burn it out. It's not a big deal. No big deal. And then tragedy struck in 1944. That's wild. And this demonstrated how truly fucking halacious the cost of lax fire safety could be in these environments. So from the moment the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey arrived in Hartford, Connecticut, on July fifth, 1944, things were off. There's something... Like a lot of these things, theaters, circus, these productions, there's a lot of superstition involved in it that is very fascinating. When you look into it, their superstitions and their traditions and stuff. Very fascinating. I love that stuff. If you've ever been involved in a theater company or anything like that, you know that there's a lot, and they're Very, very serious about it.

We should cover some more of those. We should. That'd be fun to look into.

Yeah, that would be an interesting one. And this is one of those situations that you sit there and you go, well, fuck. Because things were going wrong. In that morning, a late start out of provenance caused them to miss their first performance of the day.

They call that a sign where I'm from.

Well, that's something that superstitious members of the crew said, that's bad luck. The fact that we didn't get that first performance, that's bad luck. Wow. I believe it. Yeah. And once they When we arrived, the crew worked very quickly to get everything set up, including the Circus's Big Top, which was a 200 by 450-foot tent with 15-foot high canvas walls.

You see me, me and mine, we want you to work as slow as you need to, as methodically as you need to, to get that massive of a fucking thing up in the air. Exactly. That is going to be responsible for holding many women and children, elderly people.

Yeah.

And animals. And animals, and fire throwers. All that thing. Take as much time as you need.

But they worked quickly because they had a late start. And when it was fully assembled, the big top stood 48 feet tall. Damn. And included the three rings for the performers. Two stages, a large hippodrome, and multiple big seating areas, like balcony, bleacher things. And that July, it was super, super hot, like now. Retweet. Yeah. And so the freshly cut grass, hay, and wood shavings where the tent was going to be raised upon, super dry, very dry. And so what they were doing, though, they were thinking of this, but they ended up being lax about it. It was requiring many soakings with a hose. They would just keep soaking this to make sure. And it was mainly, one, because you don't want that to all dry up. But two, it was making a lot of dust and debris go in the air when it dried up. Oh, and that's terrible. So that's not good for anyone to be doing? For anyone to be breathing, so they would soak it to try to keep it dry or keep it wet. So with everything in place, the management was able to get the gates open for the evening show.

And the next day, and that one went okay. Actually, the next day, the papers announced that audiences found that show to be bigger, better, and smarter than ever. Wow. And in addition to the usual, you know, menagery of animals, the show also had something called the Cloud Ballet, which sounds beautiful. What's that? Yeah. It's a high wire spectacle, and it included dozens of girls on swings and trapezes engaged in aerial acrobatics.

Think of that in the 1940s.

In that thing? That's fascinating. Totally. I'll watch people do that stuff. I don't want to see the animals.

Yeah, like cirque de Soleil. Yeah.

Like, those things. We were talking about this earlier. Yes. There's something called Cirque Bonsert. I think it's called. I've never seen it. I've seen little clips of it. I don't even know if it's still happening. But, fuck, I to go to Cirque de Soleil.

Wait, am I fucking nuts or was Bridgette in Cirque de Soleil?

Was she?

Was it not an episode of Girls Next Door?

I know she was in one of the Cirque de Soleil things, but maybe she Well, maybe I'm forgetting one. I'm googling it. But I need to know if Cirque de Soleil is still around.

Okay, so Bridget trained with Cirque du Soleil.

Because I think she was in the particular one that was like, Oh, and it had water in it. It's like Cirque du Soleil, Yeah, because they have different versions of Cirque du Soleil. I think you're right. Like they love and stuff. So we looked up some shit. It's surprisingly harder to confirm all this than we thought.

Yeah, truly. But Somebody call Dave. I don't know.

Dave, help. But there is something called cirque Berzourc.

And it's the one with a Z that we're thinking of.

And it's got burlesky things going on. It's like spooky carnival Yeah. And that looks cool, and I want to see it. There's also something I just saw called Paranormal Circus or Paranormal Cirque. It looks really cool, too. It's spooky. I love haunted carnival vibes.

We still have to go to that... Remember, it's like that abandoned fairgrounds you covered it when we were in the laundry room? Yes. I want to go to there.

We do need to go to there. We do.

It starts with an S.

The It popped into my head and then left. Me too. Yeah. Shani. I was like, it's coming, it's coming.

You got to leave that one. That was incredible.

I wasn't looking at anything you could ask. She was literally just touching my temple. She was touching her temple with her eyes closed and going, Shani.

I was like, it's there, it's there, it's there. All right. Continue with the story. This is giving old school morbid and I'm loving it.

This is, which every once in a while, that is just But yeah, so it sounds like this was awesome. The Cloud Ballet, so cool. High wire spectacle, dozens of girls, swings, trapezes, aerial acrobatics. That's crazy. So cool. And Victoria, Rietta, and Frank, who hold a giant swing from their teeth while a young woman does assorted turns in midair.

Can you say that one more time?

Victoria, Rietta, and Frank, who hold a giant swing from their teeth. From their teeth, you guys. While a young woman does assorted turns midair. From their teeth? From their teeth.

I try to hold my keys in my teeth, which is gross, and you shouldn't do that. And that is hard.

It's still hard. But the positive reviews in the morning papers on July sixth was going to ensure that the next performance was going to be packed full. Big old crowd. And that next performance was scheduled to begin at 2:00 PM that day. So that day was what they described at the time as perfect weather for a day out. To me, it sounds horrific. It's nearly 90 degrees in sunny without a cloud in the sky.

Fuck a whole bunch of that unless I'm near a body of water.

I don't even want that. I'm inside with the AC. Fair enough. All the shade's pulled. Too sunny. Sweatshirt on. For me. Hate it. But There wasn't a lot going on. So of course they're going to go out.

If it's 90, I feel like you need a cloud in the sky.

No, I need clouds. But the grounds had been watered earlier that morning, so they were keeping up with that. But by the time the audiences started arriving at the gate around 1:00 PM, they had dried already. And then the person responsible for keeping them wet was distracted by how many people were coming in. So they weren't getting it done. That's not great. No. And it being the war years at the time, a significant number of American men were sent to Europe and in the Pacific. So that's why the audience was mainly comprised of mostly women, children, and elderly people. Because a lot of men were overseas. Sure. So despite the sweltering heat inside the tent, thousands of people showed up and just waited patiently in their seats for 2:00 PM when the show would finally begin.

Oh, man, that sounds horrible.

Now, the show began as it always did, with Merle Evans' Big Show Band performing the opening number, which was the Star-Spangled Banner. Let's go. And that says, Ringmaster, Fred Bradna led a parade of horses, elephants, and other performers into the ring to welcome all the guests. Cool, I guess. It's everything you think of for a circus, the Ringmaster coming in with all the animals. Yeah. And once everyone was seated, the opening act started with dozens of showgirls dressed in flashy military costumes performing a lion taming act. The opening act led into other animal shows, including Big Cat, Great Danes, and even polar bears. The fuck? Polar bears in 90 degree heat.

Oh, those poor babies.

That's fucked up.

That's fucked up. Of course it is. And also fucking polar bears.

Polar bears will fuck You think a lion is scary? A polar bear is going to fuck your shit up just for fun. Aren't they? Just for shits and diggles. They don't give a shit.

They're also fucking massive, aren't they?

They're massive. Yeah, they are huge. I don't need to see a polar bear in person. No. I don't need to. I don't want to. I don't request to. So as the animals and their trainer slowly exited the ring through a very special tunnel that they used to get the animals inside and out, you guys might recognize, people listening might recognize this name, the Flying Willendas. Maybe. It's a very... You might just recognize it because they're a very well-known act. They're a family who's been doing it for decades and decades and decades. They're the act. They started getting in a position. They were up next. They were one of the circus's most popular acts and remained that way forever. They were an acrobatic family. They were known very much for their Highwire Act that performed without a net. Oh, So the Flying Wilendas were a huge draw for the Ringling Circus. Apparently. Like, huge. So a little past 2:30 PM, just as the Willendas were about to begin their act, usher Ken Gwenaell noticed a small fire on one of the tent wall panels on the Southern side. Oh, no. Again, this was common, and they could put out small fires.

The reason that fires happened so often were also because men would go in there and smoke cigars and cigarettes. Oh. And women would smoke cigarettes, too, but mostly at that time, it was men smoking cigars. Sure. And they would toss them. So if it was dry, then they're going up. It's a canvas tent.

This is essentially kindling on the ground.

Literally. So this was just behind a row of audience members seated in the bleachers. And from what he could tell, the fire was about 5 feet up on the panel and hadn't reached the ground yet. So Gwenaell ran to get the other ushers, and the three of them grabbed the water buckets, like special water buckets four fires and started to douse the flames. But that didn't work. Oh, shit. And so usher Mike Diadrio attempted to pull the panel down because that was part of the protocol. You pull that panel down and you step on it, you stomp it up. Okay. And in the seconds it took the men to reach the wall, the fire had doubled in size and was now climbing up the panel. Oh, my God. They realized that the fire buckets were not going to work. So when they tried to pull the panel off, it was secured too tightly to the roof panels, and they couldn't pull it away. Oh, no. Normally, they could, but they had done it too- Too quickly. Too tight. So they realized that the fire buckets weren't going to be enough to stop this, and they began the process of escorting people out of the tent.

Okay. For Most of its existence, Wringling Brothers' safety protocol for fire was pretty simple. Like I was just explaining, ushers were tasked with monitoring the big top for any signs of smoke or fire, which would be a dropped cigarette or a dropped cigar. When one was spotted, one or more of the ushers would grab the red and silver fire safety buckets from under the front row of seats and extinguish the flames. In the event that they couldn't do that with just the water in the buckets, the panels or the panel or panels would be pulled down or cut down, and then they would be smothered on the ground. Which if that thing was able to, as we see, if it's able to spread to the top of the tent, that's when catastrophe strikes. So you have to get it before it goes there.

That's leaving a lot to chance.

Yes. Because also fire moves so rapidly, so unpredictable. So wait until you hear what this big tent was covered in. Oh, no. For weatherproofing. Oh, no. So in the event that the fire couldn't be brought under control through either of those two things, either with the buckets of water or by cutting the panel down. Two ushers, or excuse me, any of the ushers that they could find would evacuate the tent, and the local fire department would be called emergency responders, and they would take care of it. Now, as the largest circus show in the country, Ringling's big top tent was fucking huge. It was 100,000 square feet in size, the size of a large warehouse. Holy shit. It was huge. The massive size was intended to house multiple shows at one time. It was by design that individuals on one side of the tent wouldn't or couldn't easily see or hear what was happening on the other side of the tent. At first, audience members slowly started to become aware of the fire, starting with those on the upper bleachers of the southwest side of the tent. But some people who had noticed the fire started moving towards the exit on their own, while others needed to be prompted by ushers, like we got to go.

Yeah. But they didn't want to start panicking there. They thought they could contain this. But others thought the fire was part of the act, and so they remained seated, and they assumed the fire would just be extinguished, and it would just keep going.

I mean, you can understand why people thought that. It's the circus. It's unpredictable. Yeah.

While the ushers worked quietly to evacuate the audience on the Southwest side, one of the men notified the band leader, Merle Evans, and he was instructed to play Stars and Stripes Forever, which is the circus's so-called disaster march.

Oh.

Now, the disaster march was something that signaled all circus staff and performers that there was a catastrophic emergency happening. Oh, fantastic. In the circus and other parts of the theater industry, this is very normal. Song was a universally recognized signal of an emergency that could be used without starting a panic among the audience in a tight space. And so confusion, desperation, panic is not good to have. No, because they're already running amok. And you want everyone to be signaled very subtly without getting everyone upset, everyone that works there, so that they can all jump into action without getting everybody freaked out. Right. I'm going to need to play you a quick little piece of this because imagining this playing as the tent is literally burning down around you or starting to, is really horrifying. So this is what the disaster Which was.

No.

Yeah.

And the walls are just burning down around you.

As fire is starting to consume.

And people are running out of the tent.

And this is having to be played to not panic everybody. I'm panicked.

I'm panicked. But also you can understand why people thought that it was part of the performance because they're still playing the fucking circus music.

And it feels very circusy, very entertainer, everything's happy, everything's fine, which, again, is the intent. And when you have the situation And under some semblance of control, it makes sense. It makes perfect sense to have a disaster march where you alert the people who need to be alerted without making everyone else panic. But fuck. But when you look at it in hindsight, how terrifying. Because as we know, I always say it, that music, music playing during some horrific event that's not at all like... Scary. Dark or scary. It feels so much scarier to me. Like, upbeat music. Something like that is just so much scarier. I hate it.

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But either way, they started playing this, and at this point, the fire was still contained to the West Side, and the rest of the audience had to become aware of it yet. So there was still the possibility for an orderly evacuation, which is why they started playing that. Okay. But as the band began playing the song and the emergency call began to register with the performers inside the tent, it was already too late. Years later, members of the Willenda family recalled hearing the song being played and scanning the tent from their position because they were high above the crowd waiting to do their act. Oh, God. And they said that's when their eyes landed on the fire on the West side. That was just as it had reached the decorative fringe on the outer edge of the canvas roof. And this was an all-weather performance space, rain or shine. So the canvas roof and other parts of the big top were waterproofed using a mix of gasoline and paraffin wax.

I'm sorry. What I thought you said was gasoline?

Yep, you heard that right. And paraffin wax, two highly flammable substances.

I don't have words. Yeah. Also, a paraffin wax? I'm pretty sure that's what they put on your heels during a pedicure to like, rip your dead-ass skin off.

It's weatherproofing, apparently. That's some crazy shit. It weatherproofed big tops. What? Yep.

Gasoline and wax?

Yep.

Why?

Just get a waterproof 10. It gets so much worse, too, with that wax. Oh, no. Because I don't know if anybody's anticipating what's going to happen with that. I sure am. But when the fire reached the fringe on the roof, it ignited in a literal flash. Like the Walendas said, they literally saw it explode. It just poof. They said it filled the tent with toxic smoke, sent the audience into a panic, and then everyone went crazy. Bunkers for the exits. Now, while the most obvious danger in situations like this is the fire, there are additional factors that pose a nearly equal threat here. Trampeling. Not the least of which are the live animals that are typically present in the tent. In a fire, a frightened lion or tiger can make this a lot worse. Yeah. Fortunately, when this fire broke out, the one fortunate thing, Mae Kovar, who had just finished her lion act, had seen the fire early and managed to get the cats and all the other animals out of the tent early through tunnel underneath the audience that housed the animals. Oh, wow. So she was able to like, corral them all out.

That's good. The people, on the other hand, were much less fortunate. Not long after the roof caught fire, this will give you chills. Not long after the roof caught fire, the generator blew, so it cut the power and plunged the entire tent into darkness. What the fuck? So the generator cut out and they went into complete darkness in that tent with chaos. And just flames fucking everywhere. The only thing that's going to light the way is flames. Oh, my God. Now, Ringmaster Fred Bradna tried desperately to calm the crowd and try to get them orderly out of the tent and was encouraging them, Please move towards the exit in a quick and orderly fashion so we don't hurt people. But the power went out. So you can't see anything. So then he couldn't be heard over the screams of the crowd. Oh, my God. Because the power's out. So he's trying to scream it to everyone, but everyone's screaming. Oh, my God. To make matters worse. And this is the part that I was like, holy shit. As the paraffin wax on the ceiling canvas heated. It's burning people. As the increasingly desperate crowd of mostly women and children are rushing around towards the exits, large droplets of lethal, multi-multon paraffin wax started falling on the fucking audience below.

Oh, my God.

So they are now being pelted with lethal, multon, like literal lava. Wax is falling on them. It caused catastrophic burns. Holy shit. And only increased the panic because now they're being rained on by essentially lava. Oh my God. Oh my God. In the dark. Those who were familiar with the interior of the big top quickly made their way to the performer exits because the performers knew where those were. Yeah. And managed to get out of the tent. But the audience knew only of the main exit and entrance, which quickly became completely clogged up, and people just kept pushing. People were getting stampeded. It was awful. And among the last performers to exit the tent were the Willendas, who climbed the ropes down to the ground and headed towards the animal exit that May Covar had ushered the cats through moments earlier. And Hermann Willenda told a reporter, But people were so crowded in there that we saw we didn't have a chance. We climbed over the cage that lines the exit. That was easy for us. We're performers, but the public couldn't get out that way. Because they just jumped up on it. They're used to flipping around everywhere.

They can climb on things. In fact, when the fire was finally extinguished and firefighters were able to access the site, many of the dead were discovered, piled up near inaccessible exits. Like the ones that the Wendell just tried to go through.

Oh, my God. Just to think of people, like you said, mostly women and children and elderly people just piled on top of one another, covered in fucking paraffin wax.

Yeah. Now, those who were higher up on the bleachers managed to honestly fare a little better than those closer to the ground who got caught in the stampede of people. Dorothy Carvie, who was in attendance with her young son, said, I was up as high as the fire and it was coming in my direction. I got down to around the fourth row and I fell, and everyone stepped on us. Oh, my God. She said, A circus attendant kept yelling, 'Watch out for the kid, watch out for the He finally pushed all... And I'm like, this circus attendant was amazing. He finally pushed all the adults off. Then he grabbed my son and I held onto his waistband. Now, Carvie was among the lucky audience members on the opposite side of the tent from where the animal shoot was located because that ultimately just ended up acting like a large steel barrier in front of several of the exits. Now, Maureen Creekeian, I think it's Creakian, was 11 years old at the time and was attending the by herself for the first time. An 11-year-old. Oh, my God. That just made my- By herself in this situation.

I'm not kidding you. That just made my stomach flip.

She said, I remember somebody yelling and seeing a big ball of fire near the top of the tent, and this ball of fire just got bigger and bigger and bigger. Like many of those who made it out relatively unharmed, she jumped down from the grandstands and was able to get out over most of the obstructions. In the confusion, she was able to make her way to an exit. She said, There was a young man, a kid, and he had pocket knife. He slit the tent, took my arm, and pulled me out. Wow. Yeah. So there are heroes in attendance this day. Oh, there's many heroes in here. Now, some workers and performers heard Stars and Stripes Forever and came running, while others only smelled the smoke and followed it back to its origin. Yeah. Regardless of what made them come running, when they finally reach the tent, and this was people outside of the... Because that was the other thing, that Stars and stripes forever is for the entire carnival. Right. They all know. They all know. All those people could hear it and like, fuck, and went running towards there. Yeah. But when they finally reached the tent, none of them were prepared for what they saw.

A clown, a well-known clown named Felix Adler said, I thought the menagery fire in Cleveland was the worst thing I could ever see, but No one in the circus business had ever seen anything like this. Wow. Now, outside the tent, the crew and bystanders watched an absolute horror as audience members crawled out from under the tent walls, attempted to break through the canvas, and toxic smoke is just pouring out of every crack in this tent.

And you're just hearing people fucking screaming.

Oh, and it even gets, it's even worse. Now, according to John Davis, who was a writer for the Hartford Current, he said, Circusmen were forced to restrain parents from dashing back into the fire to search for missing children. Oh, no, no, no, no, try to usher, in some cases, pull people out of the tent until they were eventually forced back because of the heat and the smoke. They just couldn't stand it anymore. Now, within a few minutes of the roof catching, the fire had burned through much of the wax and the gasoline-soaked canvas and had made its way to the ropes that held the support beams.

Stop it.

Once the ropes caught, it was only a matter of seconds before the entire big top collapsed on top of those remaining inside. And as one reporter put it, The shrieks of the dying and injured were muffled.

That's so dark and chilling.

It is haunting. Haunting. Now, it's unknown how many people exactly were there that day, but most agree the number was nearly 7,000 people.

Holy shit.

By 2:50 PM, the fire had consumed the entire tent and burned itself out and left a pile of smoldering rubble behind.

And this had started at 2:00, right? Yeah.

And the show started at 2:00?

That's what I mean.

It took less than 10 minutes to burn the entire thing to the ground.

Oh, my God.

That's how fast this happened.

Oh, my God.

So the initial count of the dead at this point was estimated at 136 people, but the total was expected to rise as hospitals all over Connecticut were just flooded with people injured by fire. And by most accounts, those who managed to escape the fire relatively unharmed had been in the upper tier of the bleachers and were able to jump or climb over the metal cages and other obstacles that blocked a lot of the exits. So you were in better shape if you were up there.

Which is crazy because you wouldn't think so.

And like I said, the piles of the dead were found really huddled around those blocked exits or had been crushed by stampeding crowds rushing the exits. According to the press, quote, many shaped through the heroism of circus performers and refreshment vendors. We either led them to the nearest of 10 exits or through lifted side walls. Others did their part to mitigate the disaster by leading the animals away from the fire to avoid further tragedy. Because, again, you can't have a lion running in the middle of this crowd. That's, thank goodness. That could have been even worse. That's the thing. I think that's one of the only things that is good. Yeah. Because by midnight, 51 victims had been identified. Wow. But at least 85 remained unidentified at the time because there was extensive burns that left a lot of people completely unrecognizable.

And imagine knowing your loved one or your kid went to the circus that day, and now you have to go see if you can recognize them.

And unable to accommodate that many bodies, the coroner was like, We can't house this many people. I don't have this. What do you even do? So they had to establish a temporary morgue at the state armory in downtown Hartford. Just steps away from the capital.

Wow.

Inside, the bodies were all arranged on tables along the wall. Children on one side, adults on the other. Oh, my God.

That must have been to have to...

I can't even imagine.

To have to clean up that scene and collect all those bodies and go through them. Children?

Like so many children attending the circus. They came to the circus. For a kid, that's the most innocent fun. It's so exciting. They were so excited, I'm sure. It's But it's the greatest show on Earth. Not so much. So excited. And a lot of these are kids whose dads are away at war, too. And the mom is just trying to take them out for a day to- For a distraction. Distract. And it's like now these Who knows how many fathers heard that their kid died in this circus fire. Or their wife. Oh, my God. Their mom or their dad. Their mom or their dad. Yeah. So inside, like I said, it was children on one side, adults on the other. And then the days that followed this, a steady stream of people would be admitted a few at a time. People just hoping or not hoping to see their loved ones there.

And you're just looking across a sea of bodies, burnt bodies.

And trying to identify your loved one.

How do you ever recover? Like, I can't. The PTSD people must have suffered.

Oh, it must have been unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. Meanwhile, local police were overwhelmed by reports of missing children and adults who were supposed to be in attendance that day. And by late that evening, at least 113 mothers and children had been reported missing. And police had found at least 20 unaccompanied children wandering the circus grounds in search of their parents. Oh, my God. At the same time, a surprising number of adults arrived at local police precincts through the evening to report that they had found frightened unaccompanied children on the grounds and taken them home to get them away from the chaos. But they were bringing them now to be like, I didn't kidnap this child. I just couldn't leave them.

I needed to help this baby.

In this chaos. Oh, my God. But by the evening time, they had still not figured out how to find these parents.

Tragedy isn't even the word.

No, it's really not. While countless state workers and volunteers tried to deal with identifying the dead, state and local authorities started investigating what the fuck caused this fire to begin with. In a statement of the press, Ringling Brothers' publicity agent, Roland Butler, told reporters he believed the fire was caused by defective wiring, resulting in a circuit in the men's room near the main entrance. Butler added that in addition to the human costs, the human loss of life, the fire also resulted in more than $100,000 in property damage, and the circus would be canceling the remainder of the season and returning to their headquarters in Florida.

I mean, I can't imagine anybody wanting to go to the circus after that.

The show must have gone on at that point. Now, despite Butler's claim about faulty wiring, there were other theories about the origin of the fire. According to Ken Guinelle, the usher, who first attempted to put out the fire. He said the blaze originated from a cigarette thrown against the sidewall of the tent by a man using the men's toilet. Now, three Hartford detectives who were also in attendance at the circus that day, and they had tried to help douse the flames. They agreed that the fire appeared to have been caused by a dropped cigarette in the men's room.

I wonder if they just didn't want people hunting down this guy. Yeah, truly. And that's why they were faulty wiring.

Faulty wiring. Now, as police officials continued to investigate what caused the fire, D. A. S. Burleekend issued a warrance for arrest of four circus officials, and Hartford police arrested J. A. Haley, who was the vice President, John Bryce, who was The Circus Chief of Police. That's a real thing.

Wait, what?

The Circus Chief of Police. I think they have their own thing to keep order. I couldn't find exactly what it was, but he was literally listed as the Circus Chief of Police.

But did the police see them as the police?

No, I don't think it's the same. I don't think it's the same thing. I shouldn't say no, but I think it's like its own thing. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. George Smith, who was the general manager, and Leonard Ailsworth, who was the boss 'Boss Canvas' man, quote, unquote.

I would not want to be the boss canvas man that day.

All four men were charged with manslaughter and held on $15,000 bail, with likened announcing that he expected other arrests to be forthcoming. Now, within a few hours, eyewitness accounts started circulating, and the public started to learn the extent of the horror and tragedy that occurred on those fairgrounds. Army private Bob Ensworth wrote, The most amazing sight as I stood in the backyard was the fact that 17 tons of big top canvas went up in smoke like a piece of cellophane in less than 10 minutes. Just standing in your backyard. 17 tons. Now, according to Ensworth, he said many of the circus performers were burned considerably about the hands and arms as they rushed patrons to safety. Children were tossed from top row bleachers down 15 feet to workmen outside the blazing tent. My God. They're catching children being thrown to them as their hands and arms are burning. He said it was early evening before stage workers stopped to have their burns and wounds treated.

At that point, they're probably not even... When it was all happening, they probably don't even realize that their hands are burning because of adrenaline.

But they're just trying to save kids. They're just trying to get people out. Bob endsworth comments about the courageous circus performers. Notwithstanding, many residents did turn their anger towards the circus itself. I'm sure. They blamed Wringling Brothers for the tragedy, which, how can you not? It is their fault. One performer asked a reporter, Why is the town saying that the circus is to blame for what Don't they know how we feel about this? Don't they know how awful it was to see those children knocked down and trampled on by men? Yes, men. Which that's also the same. It was a tragedy all around. Yeah. Many pointed to the heroic acts of well-known clown Emmet Kelly, who led dozens of children to safety from the tent. Wow. He said, I got all the kids out that tried to run towards the exit where the blaze was. When the arena was clear, I saw that the fire had reached the point where the gasoline engine were close to the flames. So I grabbed my buckets again and did what I could to soak the canvas. I did what I could. It wasn't much. No, it was a lot.

I'm like, No, you didn't do something. You rescued a bunch of kids. They were rescued by a clown. That's like, What a fuck. I can't imagine these kids, the memories and just the things that are going to stay with them, the visuals and the feelings and the flashbacks.

And hearing us, imagine hearing that tongue.

Oh, my God. I can't. That must trigger something just dark inside of you.

Probably sent you right back to that moment.

Yeah. So viewing of the bodies resumed at the Armory the following day, and by midnight, all but 15 bodies had been identified and claimed. The unidentified that still remained were moved to a facility with better refrigeration. And by the end of the weekend, all but six had been identified. That's incredible. Among those still remaining was a little girl that the press dubbed Little Miss number 1565, which was a reference to identification number assigned by the coroner. That's horrific. Of all the victims, this Little Miss number 1565 really stood out and really stood out to a particular detective. Detective Edward Lowe said, I remember when the little girl was brought into the state armory at about 3:00 in the morning after the fire, she was practically unmarked, a beautiful little girl with honey-colored hair. She was put with those we believed would be most readily identified. And day after day, night after night, people passed her by. And given that so many victims had been burned beyond recognition, investigators assumed that this girl would be quickly identified by her family, but she wasn't.

Is it possible that her family died in the fire It's possible.

And there is a little bit of a conclusion with that, so don't worry. Okay. Eventually, detectives came to believe that the girl's family had actually mistakenly claimed another child as their own. Oh. And Little Miss number 1565 was eventually buried in Windsor Cemetery, and the moniker that everyone had used for her was what she was buried under. And ultimately, six victims did remain unidentified. Wow. Now, the day after the fire, an investigation into the tragedy was opened by the state and led by State Police Commissioner Edward Hickey, who had been in the tent that day to see the show with his nieces and nephews. Stop it. In his statement to the press, State's attorney, James Kennedy, told reporters, He has evidence that the circus failed to provide adequate firefighting equipment or sufficient personnel to operate it, and that the 520-foot canvas tent itself was a dangerous fire hazard, having been treated with paraffin diluted with gasoline. Can you fucking- Which is like, undeniable. Whose idea was that?

I'm sorry, but you knew that... Sure, that's waterproofing it, but it's literally making it the perfect spark for a fire.

Yeah, exactly. Hickey's investigation focused mostly on the six ushers who first noticed the fire and tried to extinguish the flames. After hearing their version of events and visiting the site again with them, Hickey determined that they were telling the truth, but he remained unable to determine whether the fire had, in fact, been caused by a cigarette. There were also two stories that concerned Hickey. The first was from a food vendor who claimed that the fire could have been prevented if the fire extinguishers had actually worked. And the second was regarding, quote, a drunken circus employee seen by a concessionaire leaving the men's toilet as the fire started. Oh, no. So now they're saying it could have been this drunk circus employee that flicked a cigarette. Yikes. These stories were collected by Hartford detectives who had been actually sent. This is how they heard these. This is very interesting. They had been sent to local taverns in the days after the fire to listen in on conversations between circus employees. I love it. To try to get additional evidence. I fucking love it. I don't know why I love that. I was like, that's- Because it's spying.

And spying is fun.

It's so down and dirty, detective 1940s, detective work. You know what I mean?

You see it in your head as a movie.

And you see the hats they're wearing and everything listening to these conversations while drinking a little- Chai. Stout. Some whiskey. Yeah. You know? So alcohol. Now, by the end of the year, The fire commission had completed its investigation, as had the coroner's office, and both determined that several Wringling Brothers staff were, quote, guilty of such wanton or reckless conduct, either of commission or of omission, where there is a duty to act which makes them criminally liable for the deaths. Based on those findings, investigators arrested James Haley, the vice President and director of the circus, George Smith, the general manager, Leonard Aelsworth, boss canvasman, Edward Versteeg, the chief electrician, David Blanchfield, a superintendent of rolling stock, William Kaylee, who was an usher, and Samuel Clark, who was another usher. Okay. According to the coroner's report, Kaylee and Clark, the ushers, quote, left their places under the bleachers when it was their duty to remain there and watch for fires that might occur.

The fuck?

Where were you? Ultimately, all but Samuel Clark were found guilty and went on to serve between six months and seven years in prison. Wow. Now, nearly five went by, and the residents of Hartford had started to move on with their lives when the circus fire case was revised because there was a new arrest. In March 1950, police in Columbus, Ohio, received a tip about a young man who claimed to have set the fire in Hartford.

Set it?

Yup. And they arrested 21-year-old East St. Louis resident, Robert Seggie. . According to Ohio State Fire Marshal, Harry Callen, Seggie was, quote, being questioned about a series of fires in three states, including the Circus Fire in Hartford. And also, not only did Seggie have a history of setting arson fires, but he also worked for the Ringling Brothers and was traveling with the show when the fire occurred.

Stop it.

Now, during his initial interview, he told investigators that he had been working as a rust about, which is like a casual laborer. Okay. With Ringling Brothers in 1944, he claimed that on the day of the fire, and this is his quote, this is what he said. It's offensive. He said, The Red Indian awakened him and ordered him to set a fire. What? After that, he claimed his mind went blank, and when he came to again, the big top was already in flames and he was burned in the fire. It quickly became clear to investigators that he was mentally ill, but he had nonetheless confessed to a very serious crime, so he was held for further questioning. Okay. But Chief Charles Lamanda told reporters, We're gone as as we can with him. Psychiatrists will have to work him out now, and I think we'll get the Hartford case cleared up. Now, Robert Seggie continued talking to investigators, and by July, he had confessed to four murders and also said that he admitted that he had set more than 80 arson fires. Holy shit. Including the Hartford Circus fire. According to Seggie, his, quote, career of crime started at the age of nine with the murder of a nine-year-old girl in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

But the Portsmouth police official told reporters that his confession to the murder of nine-year-old Barbara Driskill, he said, Looks fishy to me. Okay. Also, at the time of the murder, police had a strong suspect, but that suspect was later acquitted. At the... And the same official admitted that Segi was living near the victim at the time, and it was possible he did commit that crime.

A nine-year-old cover up murder for that long.

It's an awful crime. I looked it up. It's awful. She was a nine-year-old. She was assaulted and murdered, and she was killed with a rock at a railroad track and was found with a clump of her attacker's hair in her hand.

What the fuck? And it's like, Did he go home with a clump of hair missing?

That's what I'm like, I wish we could have figured that out. Oh. And her name was Barbara Derscale. It's really sad. Oh, little Barbara. Now, while Ohio law enforcement officials had already begun claiming credit for capturing a serial killer the person responsible for the Hartford fire because he's a serial killer at this point. He's saying he murdered four people and then also set these fires that killed other people.

Hundreds and hundreds.

Many, like the Portsmouth, Portsmouth. That's really hard to say. Portsmouth is hard to say. Portsmouth police officials, remained skeptical of his claims. I feel the same right now. When he was questioned about Seggie's employment at the time of the fire, a Ringling Brothers' spokesperson told reporters, though they didn't have employment records going to that time, he doubted very much that the circus would have hired a teenage boy for the job. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. In fact, after Seggie claimed he was interviewed by police following the fire, Edward Hickey reviewed the list of Ringling Brothers' employees questioned at the time, and his name was not among them. Okay. That doesn't mean he was an employee.

Yeah, he also could have just hopped on another fucking train.

Yeah, that just means he wasn't officially questioned.

And or on record.

Yeah. Despite their doubts, at least 10 of the arson fires that Seggi claimed to have started were substantiated by the police, giving his story at least a little bit of credibility. Also, in investigative reports from the time and interviews with his parents, they claimed he ran away to join the Wringling Brothers Circus in 1944. Stop. So all these claims that he couldn't have been... His parents agree that he ran away to the wrong circus. Now, in July 1950, Robert Seggie prepared and signed a written confession in which he took a full responsibility for the Hartford fire. According to the statement, he regularly hallucinated the spirit of a Native American man who encouraged him to set fires and commit acts of violence, including the murder of Barbara Dershka in Portsmouth. He also said that This included the murder of a 12-year-old boy in Portland, Maine, and the murder of a boy in Japan while Segi was in the military.

What the fuck?

A few months later, after evaluating him, psychiatrist Dr. Roy Bushong of Lima Hospital said that although he was, quote, essentially neurotic and capable of committing serious crimes, he was not insane in the legal sense of the term. Okay. I think he was just lying about hallucinating things. So he's also racist. Cool. Exactly. So Robert Segi's dubious confession notwithstanding because it's still a little like, that's a lot. The fact that he was deemed sane meant that investigators had no choice but to accept that confession to the Hartford fire and the other murders. So on November 3, 1950, he appeared before a judge in Ohio, and he pleaded guilty to a variety of crimes ranging from arson to murder. Yeah. And he said, I've never been in trouble before, and I would like to ask the court to grant me leniency.

I don't think so, buddy. Fuck off.

So after accepting Seggie's plea, Judge William Radcliffe sentenced him to two consecutive terms of 2-20 years in prison. That's not allowed. Which was the maximum allowed under Ohio law at the time. When asked why he committed the crimes, he responded, When you got a bunch of brothers who call you dopey all your life, you'd understand a little bit. Actually, I never had a happy day in my life. Listen. So now he's saying people were mean to me.

People call me dumb all the fucking time. People call me dumb left, right, center, above, below.

You're not going to go do that.

And I'm not trying to set fires.

No.

Fuck that excuse. People called me dumb. Okay.

And it's not even people. My brothers, my siblings called me dumb.

How many people in your life have called you dumb before? It's like that scene in Mean Girls. Raise your hand if you felt personally victimized by the people That's all that called you dumb.

By your siblings. Fuck you.

I'm outraged by that excuse.

As you should be. Now, years later, Robert Seggie actually recanted his confession and insisted he had not worked for Ringling Brothers and had nothing to do with the fire.

I feel like it was just convenient, though, because at first I wasn't convinced, but then when his parents said he ran away. Yeah.

He had never technically been charged with the Hartford fire. He had been charged for the other things. Okay. So there were no consequences for his confession of that crime. So though he remained in prison on the Ohio arson charges for which he had been convicted until he was paroled in 1959, he maintained his innocence about it until he died in 1997.

Bitch, I was born. Yeah. And Also, he served nine years.

Yep. That's it. For those arsons because that's what he was convicted for. Wow.

But he got 2 to 20 and he only served nine. Yeah.

He was paroled. The fuck?

You paroled that man?

Yeah. Like, what's going on? Ohio, Ohio. So the eagerness with which some investigators accepted Robert Seggie's confession isn't really difficult to understand, like we were saying. Sure they wanted somebody to- In the wake of this tragedy, you want someone to blame. And if someone's willing to take the blame, you want to believe it.

If somebody who's willing to take the blame has also committed multiple other arsons and killed people, I'm going to believe them.

He offered a very convenient explanation that could potentially happen. But the fact is, whoever or whatever caused the Hartford Circus fire has never and I want to believe it can be fixed, but they have never been identified.

Like you said, there's always hope.

I believe there's always hope in these situations. Yeah. In 1991, Hartford Fire Lieutenant Rick Davy told reporters he had strong reason to believe the fire had been deliberately set in the men's room and was not an accident. So following his announcement, the state fire marshal reopened the case and spent two years investigating the claim, but eventually concluded there wasn't enough evidence to support that assertion, but there wasn't enough evidence to not support it either. Damn. So we're literally in a place of limbo of like, it could have been. And the fire marshal said, We reviewed tons of old documents, talked to survivors, and spent four hours in Ohio interviewing Robert Seggie, but we gleaned no new information as to how the fire might have started. Now, while the cause of the fire was one more mystery that was remaining unsolved for the time being, Rick Davies' investigation did unearth some new information that likely solved at least one of the Hartford fire's mysteries. Is it our girl? Like many investigators at the time, Rick Davies formed a attachment with Little Miss 1565 and became determined to identify her, which I was really hoping someone would because I was like, I'm going to be determined now.

Yeah. So he actually told a reporter in 1991, She became family to me. She is, in effect, a surrogate daughter. I spent more time looking for her than when she was alive, probably.

What a sweetheart.

And according to Davy, during his research, he found a photograph among the evidence that appeared to depict a girl that bore a striking resemblance to Little Miss 1565. And after tracking down the origin of the photo, he learned that the girl's name was Eleanor Cooke. Eleanor Cooke. And the photo had been obtained by the girl's aunt, Emily Gill, who brought it with her to Hartford when she was searching for her niece after the fire. Now, Eleanor Cooke had attended the circus that day with her mother, Mildred, and her younger brothers, Edward and Donald. When the fire broke out, the family became separated in the chaos. Unfortunately, Edward died in the fire, and their mother was burned over more than 90% of her body and was hospitalized for months and months.

That's why Nobody came.

Nobody came. Davy believes Emily Gill came to Hartford from her home in Southampton, Massachusetts, to search for her sister and her nieces and nephews, but left after a few days because she had never seen the body of Little Miss, 15 '65. It took considerable time, but eventually, Davie tracked down Donald Cook, who was her brother. Stop it. Who agreed the girl was certainly his sister. The two men were able to get the Connecticut State Medical Examiner to legally declare body number 1565 to be Eleanor Cooke. And in 1991, Donald and Mildred Cooke, mother, was able to bury Eleanor in a nearby cemetery in South Hampton. With a marked grave. Oh, my God. So now she's finally buried with her name.

So in all that tragedy, even though that's still so tragic, at least she was able to be like, lead to actual rest.

Because I'm sure they just thought she's just gone. Yeah. Like, I don't know where she is. And in the wake of the fire, most people in Hartford honestly did their best to put the tragedy behind them and move forward. But these things are very not easy to move forward from. No, of course not. The memory remained on. It was like an open wound. Yeah. Finally, in 2004, victims and family members received some closure because the city unveiled a memorial to the victims on the 60th anniversary of the fire. It took 60 years. A lot of time. The memorial, which shows a basic design of the layout of the big top, lists the names of all those lost in the tragedy and provides a brief description of the event, ensuring neither the fire nor the 167 in the end lives that were lost will not be forgotten anytime soon. Wow. But that is the story of the Hartford Circus Fire, and it was one of the most haunting things I've ever read. I believe it.

I mean, it's one of the most haunting things I've ever heard.

Dave was saying that, too. He was like, this one is chilling.

Because it's just layer upon layer of dramatic tragedy.

It's fascinating at times because it's like things like the paraffin wax and gasoline to weatherproof are things that you don't see now. So there are things that are fascinating to hear that they did. That's why these older cases are so fascinating to me because these things that you're just like, what did they do? Like, what the fuck? That's just mind boggling. And then you hear the good updates. Like when people are able to identify Little Miss 1565, Eleanor Cooke. It's like, At least those things come out of it decades later.

And just from people who are so determined and just like angels.

Yeah. And hearing the clowns that help children get out of there. It just breaks my heart.

Yeah.

Because it also was really sad. Like, the people who ran that circus, obviously, a lot of them were convicted and did need to face consequences for being lax. Absolutely. But some of those workers that weren't owning the place, you know what I mean? Yeah, they just worked there. The clowns, the performers, the people who helped. Yeah. They all lost their jobs, too. They all lost their livelihoods. They all lost what... You know, you're obviously passionate about that if that's what you're doing for your work.

But then it's like, also, do you lose that passion afterwards? That's the thing.

Like, did they lose any of the love that they had I have to assume a portion of them weren't able to perform again. Because I feel like being, especially clowns, when you really look into what it takes to become a professional clown, it's not like you just throw pain on your face and go like... It's a lot. It's a legit thing. You have to really learn about it. You're working with kids and you can't scare them. It's like, and that's inherently a scary thing.

And there's a whole psychology behind the face paint and everything.

To know that these people probably dedicated so much of their lives to this thing. This happens. Yeah. And to have to deal with that later.

What a case, Elaina.

Yeah. Elaina. I know. It's an early one.

We hope you keep listening.

We hope you... Keep it... Weird.

But not so weird that you cover anything flammable and more flammable things.

Yeah, don't do that. Bye. Bye.

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