This is exactly right. What's up? Oh, Glenn. Holy shit, holy shit. O'Quinn O'Quinn doesn't fuck around. They really don't. It's not, they're not known for not fucking around that's for sure. Can I see this. Kapilow please. Please. It is this. It's not like it's around can. She brought us a pillow of her cat. Georgia gave it back. Sorry, I guess we rejected that gift. I thought I didn't think it was a gift.

I thought it was an emotional support. Capilano. Is that what it is? Yeah, this is truly what I want to start. Bring on planes. Just a freight fucking and everyone out. A big stuff, huh? You know, you're on Southwest and they have to choose a seat and they're like, oh, shit. Not the woman with the fucking cat pillow. I know, you know. Yeah, I like my cat sitting here petting it.

Yeah. Jojo doesn't want you to sit in the middle seat. Well, Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo that I had to name that cat so fast on stage in front of all of you and I did a professional thing. Yeah. It's just I think the same name instead of twice. It's not that big of a deal actually if you break it down. Eric, my cat Eric Eric doesn't want you to sit here to name just two names.

Twenty years of lessons with twenty years of comedy. Yeah. We'll get you double up and go for it. That's what I said. That's all comedy. It's funny, you guys. This theater's humongous. Oh, it's crazy. Like he didn't build it, if it's not haunted, then, I mean, I will cry then what are you even doing then? How do I was changing in, like this big, like, vintage, gorgeous, ornate, changing area?

And the sink had like it had like powdered soap. It's like really old timey, very old fashioned. And I was really hoping some goat, like Perverted Ghost was watching me change. She's like in a bridal gown, but she's also like underpants. Mm. Oh, old new fashioned underpants. Oh. Those are so much smaller than the ones I have on that. Go from my neck to my ankles. Can I ask a question about this idea.

Why did I need her to be a bride in a theater that doesn't make sense at all. No, no. I'm a production of a name. I play that the bride who died, you know that famous play. What an idiot. The bride who died, comma. The bride who died by Eric. Eric by playwright Jo Jo. Jo Jo. Guys, welcome. This is my favorite murder.

And this is again, this is Georgia hard start beat. You think if we're so excited, we haven't been in Oakland since our first tour. That's right. I'm making that up. You were there. Yeah, I know. It's been a while. It doesn't make sense because we actually like it here. I know Stephen got that place, you know, all those other cities like. No, Stephen, he's not here. I here. No, he's he's not real actually.

Tonight's the night you find out. Yeah. He's a ghost, right. He's a ghost. That is our records and it's our show. He doesn't understand modern underwear. It's real here. It's kind of weird actually. Last night, speaking of cities, we were in Sacramento. Good SEGRA. Speaking of subjects, you know how we like to talk about things and places, yeah, yeah, guys, it was Sacramento to tell him. But do we break it to them powerhouses there?

Yeah, is. I know when your friend was like, I don't want to drive two hours, let's just see them in Oakland. Yeah, that was you. Let's say in blue. That's whatever. I don't know. I just picked a day live in the Bay Area. I'm better than Sacramento. You're fucking not. We owe them an apology. We've never talked shit on Oakland till tonight. And we do it to you. Yeah, I had done a lot to make up to Sacramento for because I've just been consistently talking shit about that city since 1990.

And they weren't stoked about it, so I gave them a little here, shut up gift. That's what I call it. Shut up now. Yes, it was. I was going to say whatever we want now.

Gifts, this guy who solved the Golden State killer, this guy is pretty cool. Is pretty bad.

Yeah, my niece Nora's here tonight, so don't say we never gave you anything. Yeah. Leaf does. The ladies and gentlemen can't stay off the stage, but Kilgariff talent suggests here's what I love backstage. I was like, hey, you want to you want to come out on stage doing it. It's was like, no, no, no, no, no. I go, you can just like it. It'll be fun. You can do like a cartwheel.

She's like, I don't know, I have to practice because I was like, how funny would be if she actually broke her wrist like that. Funny, funny, funny. Like all the things weird. Funny, you know, ironic. Slightly funny. Not that funny. I'd seen her cast but I thought we were going to have to like, tee it up and then beg her to come out. It seemed like it was going to be a problem.

And she came without you just when she heard her name. I bet my sister is standing by. I say don't go now and smile ass like you like. Your sister just becomes a nightmare, mom. All of a sudden she's she's there. Do you want to show them? Oh, this is a picture that I showed in Sacramento last night, is my way of explaining why I hate it so much. But then I thought you guys might want to see it because it's fun.

Yeah, do you blame her? Nineteen eighty eight slash nine, I don't like it here, it's too hot. I mean you're fucking you're you're Kelly Bundy. Thank you. Oh, you're like truly like that. So I wanted to be Kelly Bundy so bad and you're just like effortlessly. Well do you mean because of the rage.

Yeah. Yes. Kelly Bundy in the biggest t shirt she can buy the day. I just love that I was clearly that looks like a solid three hours of makeup just to stand in a dorm room, a dorm room with like fucking Coors Light bottles of. And it's like and what was the effort for the end in an effort to it then being angry that you're there? That's right. I get ready to then act like I want to leave. That was my whole kind of my whole approach.

And that's my friend Patty Reilly, who who I went to college with. The reason I went to SAC State is because Patti Reilly was going to SAC State and she goes, Hey, will you go to state with me? And I was like, all right, that sounds good. And then that was my roommate, Shelly Wilson, who just we, you know, paired together randomly because I didn't turn the paperwork in in time to be Patti Riley's.

Remember, it's a long and very typical story. So Shelly was from Modesto and she was like, Reba McEntire is number one fan. And here I come with my Echo and the Bunnymen poster like Let's Get Modern. We had fun is good. Oh, did she?

She looks like someone you gave her first cigarette to, which I'm not talking shit.

I have plenty of those friends in my fucking wake.

She well, she partied, but she just want to get in there and get her business degree and get the fuck out like most people that size her. Whereas I was trying to develop a career, a body of creative work stuff to tell stories about later. That's right on stage in 020, for example, write what we love is that maybe some of you were like born in the eighties and you don't know that back then they your fucking cells, they were born in the nineties really.

And they're here. They got in. They're old enough to vote cause everyone. Oh please vote. Yeah. Looking for good people? No, I'm saying that part of the vote message, please don't vote for fucking Nazi douchebags just just now, just right now, you know, just at the moment, you can do what you want later. I forgot what? Oh, this is I.

One other picture to show you, because I'm calling this my my tour food diary, because sometimes I make good decisions when I'm in a hotel room by myself at one 30 in the morning going, shoot, I didn't eat dinner. It gets really weird, you guys.

The stuff we eat and if we order food before they like, we'll order food and it'll be ready. We'll take it back to the hotel and then we'll make good decisions because it's not like starving in the moment. Yeah.

So I'm like, oh, Caesar salad, no dressing. Thank you. Can you can keep the croutons for yourself because I don't do the bread like that. But if you're, if it's one thirty in the morning you realize oh shit, this, this hotel has an all night menu which I didn't realize. I bolted out of bed and I was like, let's do this thing. What the fuck?

It's mac and cheese off the children's menu, and it is oh, you do. So you're recognizing that those are goldfish. I've got children's goldfish. We did that. Come on in. Or did you just open the minibar and dump whatever came on? No, no, no. We made it that way. Holy shit. I think the word chef is a little bit of a guy theory. Got a job in Sacramento and he bombed the shit out of that mac and cheese.

You guys. My God, it looks it was amazing, though. It was amazing. I bet it was like it was silly.

I bet it was right. It was it was amazing.

Listen, I took the lid off and I started laughing. I put the lid back on like I'm an adult. And then I walk to, like, four feet away. And then I was like, you know what? And I sat I pulled my chair up to the tray that was on, like, the weird desk. And I ate directly under the TV so I couldn't even see it. I was just like, let's focus and let's get this done and let's try to grow out of this dress before the is over.

What am I doing? It's not a good idea. Anyway, get the children's mac and cheese at the Sacramento or whatever. Whatever were we really did. I don't know. I don't know Sacramento. I don't either. Blocked out. Do you want to talk about your Halloween dress dress. You guys can't tell there's little skull and crossbones on it and a nice big hole right here for your for your Kleenex and your list chance. My new pocket is like Kleenex.

There we go. OK, yeah. Just stuff it in there, right? Absolutely. Now you're free to gesture wildly. Well, you tell a story. It was so encumbered earlier with my tissue. Yeah. Not more nearly. Yeah. What about you. Encumbered freedom. Freedom. Oh this whole thing. I just have pockets that's all. That doesn't look weird at all, but what microphone, I don't know, you're talking about this this these pockets almost go through to like a full pouch, like a kangaroo.

I think I'm in an email Land's End and let them know that that's what they should be doing. Keep your extra goldfish crackers in there and jam or just hold your own hand, whatever you need in your dress to feeling weird. Shooz down, should we?

Thank you. Thank you so much. Last night, bless Sacramento's heart. They they didn't. I tell you guys this is a cocktail table. That's what this means. Someone didn't know what that meant. And we had the cutest little tiny chairs. It was very cute.

It looked like it was kids furniture from Pottery Barn, you know, and they're like, we're going to make furniture that looks real for children. So they feel like human beings. And so their parents spend a lot of money.

Yeah, it was that with a black tablecloth over the top and we're just like, yeah, we can't sit at that. They'll laugh at us for the wrong reason.

This is a true crime. Comedy podcasts. Yes.

Have you heard that we're breaking all the rules and combining true crime and comedy, and that can be difficult sometimes for people, especially those of you who have never heard this podcast? You have no idea what's going on right now because you're like, is there always a 12 year old that does a cartwheel? What's happening? Should she be listening to that cursing? That doesn't seem wrong. So anyway, if you've never heard this podcast before, you don't know us.

You don't know how we do it. It might be hard to hate that. She's a drag along. I mean, I'm really I'm mid monolog right now trying to be serious about how hard it can be for people sometimes to hold to complex ideas simultaneously or let somebody else do it for them. It's a control issue. Sometimes it's a cultural issue about the patriarchy, whatever comes into mind. Sometimes people hear that we might be conversationally joking, but also talking about horrible human loss and they get offended by that idea.

They don't like it and they think it's wrong. And so for those people, we honestly just want to say, get the fuck out right now.

It's important. We'd rather you just take a nap, you can you can just take a nap. We can't see your face. You just took a nap right now would be fine. Or if you're really offended, you could actually turn your phone flashlight on, hold it over your face and make sure we know how mad you were or how sleeping you are.

That's fine, too. Did you bring your pillow because you're going to need it for this? Yeah, this is a this is a cat pillow situation. As someone who can fucking take a nap any time, anywhere I'm going at this cat pillow is a game changer. Right. We there's a woman in the meet and greet, I say changed my life a little when she handed me this bag and said, I work for I have a company called Adventure Cats.

And I'm like, well, what fuck is she was like, I train people how to how to safely take their cats out into the world. And here's some supplies. And I was like, I was about to leave and just go home, go into the world and go, fine, go get my cat to be like it's adventure time. Elvis Maemi dot hop into our wagon. We're going to go live our events to we're going to go live at and but it got I miss that lady altogether.

Are you sure she was really there but she was really just telling me some crazy some story about her job and I was like a bunch of cats just make shit up. But what I wanted to hear, which is like I'm a nurse. Adventure cats. Laughs No, you're training cats to do what you say. I deliver babies. Yes, that's a good sign for comedy, baby jokes are sinked, it's hard, period. This is a comedy version of the red tent all on the same cycle of comedy.

Share for menstruation, ministration, it's a part of life. We get out here, let's tell us a little more about her period. She's gone now. By the way. So she's not I mean, truly shoot her. Once we sat down Sweedler, I was like, let's get her out of here. She shipped her out. I can be myself now. You can get to athon acid all over the place. Nice. Good action on that.

She really is not listening anymore. So don't worry. We're not that terrible people. Well, my nephew, who's eight, when I was in the car with him and he's like, I wanna listen to your podcast, I was like, OK, you can listen to the beginning, but not the murder part. And immediately I'm like fucking like.

It is really funny when, like a bunch of my relatives came last night, a bunch of my relatives are coming tomorrow and they always like especially the ones that are like my aunts and uncles stuff, there is like, congratulations. They had no fucking clue what to say. They're just like, well, we thought you we explained to you this wasn't allowed. I was colorful. Well, at least it wasn't my dad in New York when we did the beacon, like the beacon, there's a big fucking deal.

And I flew my dad out to New York and I put him up at Nortel and I'm like, feel fine and be proud of me. And afterwards, he comes backstage and what does he say? He comes into the dressing room, goes, That was cute. Get out. I don't care if you're her father, get the fuck out of here. Well, that was cute. No, it was not cute in any way. There was nothing cute about it.

That's completely the wrong adjective. And that's why I keep trying to get his approval. So, you know, it's why some people get so upset. His name is absolutely Marty. That's correct. Marty.

In 2012, a 72 year old man named Samuel Little was charged with three Los Angeles murders dating back to the 1980s.

So we finally got to where we were going. The crowd at Liverpool roar after only one appeal.

But since then, it's become clear he is the most prolific serial killer in the United States has ever seen, 93 victims, 19 states. Samuel Little has become infamous, but his victims, some of whom remain unidentified, are stuck in the shadows. It's time for that to change.

My experience in working with some of the victims families is that he was dead wrong. They were missed. They were very loved and their families were hurting.

The Fall Line presents a special limited series. The victims of Samuel Little will cover both solved and unsolved Southeastern cases and tell you how you can help the victims. Still waiting for justice, featuring rare interrogation tape, FBI interviews and in depth detail. This is a series you won't want to miss. Episodes begin on September 16th from Exactly Right Network. Find us on Stitcher Apple podcast or wherever you listen. Who goes first tonight? I believe it's you. OK, great, I'll do it.

Let's kick it off and I'll do it. It's time. Guys, tonight I'm going to do suspects of the Zodiac when.

Yes, like we all know, I know right now, it's like such a fucking bummer story and he's like, not hot. So it just sucks, right? It's not fun, but so I'm doing a few, I think are the top suspects. It'll be great. We'll all be here for it. Great. Did you hear them clapping? They were trying to sell it. I know they're fine with it. Oh, I'm with you. So, OK, here we are.

Picture, if you will. Let's do a little overview first. OK, you guys know him. The Zodiac Killer has been linked to five murder with linked to five murders in a 10 month spree between December of 1968 and October of 1969. That's a quick look and period that he got into. But it's suspected he could have been responsible for dozens more.

And he claimed 37 murders in letters that he wrote to the newspapers. You know, we've all seen Zodiac.

Beautiful movie, gorgeous. Let's watch it right now if you get a chance. Wouldn't that be amazing? We're like, you know, we're not going to tell you the story. We're going to go on ahead and let the French tell you the story. Cinematic. And then we're going to talk over it the whole time.

So the first murder that's attributed to the Zodiac took place on the night of December 20th, 1968, when 17 year old David Faraday and his and 16 year old Betty Lou Jensen were shot to death near their car in a remote spot in Lake Herman Road on the outskirts of Vallejo, California.

Nobody lives there. I might need some help with names. By the way, at the time, police were unable to determine a motive for the crime or a suspect. They were like had no idea. The next murder attributed to the Zodiac took place early in the morning of July 5th, 1969, when Darlene Ferrin, who was 22, and her boyfriend, Mike Mattio Maggio, thank you. 19, nearly totally meant to look that up.

But this ponytail, it looks. So I think you did it. Thank you. OK, they were sitting in a parked car in a remote location of Blue Rock Springs Park, you know, and their approach to the man with the flashlight, the figure fired multiple shots at them, killing Ferrin and seriously wounding Maggio.

Then on July 5th, 1969, at 12 40, I am a man phones the Vallejo police that same night.

I should have just said that that will end it as we go early that morning. So then the sky fucking gets on the horn and he's like. Vallejo Police Department calls them reports and claims responsibility for the attack and he takes credit for the murder of Jensen and FERRETI six and a half months earlier. So this is like their first break in the case.

The police trace the call to a phone booth at a gas station at Springs' Road and to loan to laminin.

So I had no idea what she was saying into another road about three tenths of a mile from Theron's from their home and only a few blocks from the Vallejo department.

But there's nobody there when they get there. She describes his attacker as a 26 to 30 years old, 195, 200 pounds, possibly more, about five eight white male with short light brown curly hair.

Then on the evening of September 27, 1969, Cecilia Shepard and Brian Hartnell are chilling out on the shore of Lake Berry. s.A. Yeah, thank you.

Oh, my God. Remember when we parted their cheese sandwiches and so much fun, said that guy had that boat that's in Napa County when a man.

It's great grapes. Uh huh, wine. You guys have wine? I love wine. Bup bup bup bup bup. A man about five eleven weighing more than 170 pounds with cum greasy brown hair approaches them. He's right. This is like the scariest part of this fucking movie. He's wearing a black executioner's type hood with Clip-On sunglasses over the eyeholes.

I didn't know that part. Well, Wikipedia is. No, but I mean, I'm not doubting it.

I know I went in there and thought I would lighten it up a little bit. You know, that's that part in the movie because it's daytime. Right? And then suddenly you're like, why is that man approaching us? Why is the man oh, with a hood on with an execution style hood on. This is not going to be chill clip-on sunglasses. That's even scarier.

I hope they left that part in the movie and a bib like device on his chest that had a white three by three cross circle symbol on it. He tied them up and brutally stab them and then scrawled a message for police on the car door before leaving that like said what dates he had done. The other killings, like showing that he was involved. Shepard died of her wounds shortly after, but Brian survived. Two weeks later, on October 11, 1969, the Zodiac shot twenty nine year old taxi driver Paul Stein in San Francisco's Presidio Heights neighborhood.

The more it's really expensive, nobody is from there not knowing.

It's you're so right. Nobody fucking cheered for nine thousand dollars. Sure. Rent. I've got my north face jacket. I can live anywhere I want. Congratulations. I made up an app I sell at. I made up an app. You know, that app that does that app that teaches you, what, north face jacket you should buy for yourself? Congratulations. Great. Go on in the Presidio. It's kind of boring. I don't know.

Actually, no, I don't think I ever hung out there when I lived to hear the says.

The girl lived like the sunset, just like the South Side is just the saddest, saddest, most fun and terrible. The sunset is where you go to, like, write your poetry and look at SOGGE. Yeah, that's where you go to be. Like, I'm slightly depressed, but let's really get into this thing and see. Let's explore this depression. Yeah. In a real way, OK?

And suddenly I'm having this flashback of my actual depression, but I don't know, come back. We have to sort of do OK.

But but but OK.

So the Presidio neighborhood, the murder was initially deemed a robbery until the San Francisco Chronicle received a letter claiming from the Zodiac saying, you know, I did it great part of the movie because they followed the letter from the mail basket all the way into The Wizard of Oz. It's a different movie. Close, though. It's similar. It's like the letters riding a bicycle and coming to take their dog away. Emotionally, psychologically. Yeah.

At least five other murders have been tentatively linked to the Zodiac Killer, including the 1963 shooting of Robert Dominguez and Linda Edwards near Santa Barbara, California, and the 1966 stabbing death of college student Cheri Jo Bates in Riverside, California.

Over the years, Zodiac, there's these you guys these people are it's like they're, you know, really into your crime.

Oh, my God, it's so weird, you know, but they really are obsessed with Zodiac. And they suggested dozens of possible suspects based on all this crazy speculation, circumstantial evidence. A lot of conspiracy theorists think that the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, was think so BTK. And some people think a guy from Charles Manson family is now.

So there's like there's everyone has like ten of the best suspects and like only a couple of them make sense. And the other ones are like they think it's him because he lived near the area at the time and he kind of looks like the sketch and it's just like loose. So here's the sketch, a sketch that looks like No.

One. Oh, yes, my neighbor. Right.

Oh, you like what's so great about, like with the Golden State killer being caught and the fact that he looks nothing like any of the composites like kind of here and kind of there. And he changed to look so many times, probably on purpose. Right. That you just can't rely on that anymore. That he doesn't look like the sketch or it does look like the sketch.

Well, I bet you that no matter what, that that guy doesn't have army issue black framed glasses anymore just because that's where I think required in like nineteen sixty five. Right. Maybe the buzz cut is not there anymore.

Maybe some more wrinkles around the eyes and maybe he has some sort of defining features like a human being with single one, just a mole, maybe a mole and it doesn't look like it. What's that smell. Did you empty the garbage. That's what he's doing there. Yeah. Buckhead is supposed to empty the garbage deck. God damn that dick, shut up. OK, so I'm doing Mike my theory that I'm like this.

I think these are the most make the most sense. You think they're all the Zodiac? I think they're all the Zodiac and they're and they're OK. Here we go.

Look, listen, listen. Right.

I was small when. Sorry, guys.

So this dude, Richard Guy Koski, he was a civil rights activist and newspaper journalist and filmmaker, born in Waterton, South Dakota, in March of nineteen thirty six.

So this guy, he's like he's like a punk rocker from the 60s, like before that was a punk rock thing, OK? He was a member of this anti police pro violence counterculture newspaper in San Francisco called Goodtimes.

Let's not punk everyone so they could get it past the sites. I think that's what a lot of this is. This is he. Oh, wait a second. Now, his nose is too big, right. He has a defining features, is defining him and a big inhaling nose. Yeah.

So this dude, Richard Gutkowski. So from 1969. OK, bye bye bye. Good times. Good Times is a newspaper that runs violent works of fiction. And there are some of them are nearly a blueprint for the Zodiac's future crimes also. So here's some things that tie him to the case. So Wednesday's was production day for the Very Good Times, which is a weekly newspaper.

I'm sorry, but now that it's sitting with me, I kind of love the title Good Times. It's it's just some person, like some grandma.

I was like walking down the street and, oh, this newspaper looks fun and I kill the police.

You know what's happening like that.

So it's their production day is Wednesday. So Wednesdays are bananas and super busy and no one has time.

And he's like the main guy there and there's knives everywhere. It's crazy and keeps screaming. I'm the zodiac, which wastes so much time when you're trying to make a newspaper about violence.

So between between nineteen, his first murder in July of nineteen sixty nine until the until when Goodtimes folded in 1973, the Zodiac mailed 15 letters he on every single day of the week except for Wednesday. I think that's cool. And I can tell that it sounds kind of stupid to know it doesn't interest.

Well it just makes sense, right. You can't do it. All right. So Wednesdays was his busy day. It's hard to multitask. Isn't that really murdering innocent people all over the place? So between I mean, that seems like a lot, right? Yeah, never. On a Wednesday, every single other day of the week, he did too busy at the time of the murder. The Good Times office was located only yards from the residence of Zodiac victim Paul Stein on Fells Street in San Francisco.

It's a little more affordable.

That's right. Yeah, that's the real deal street. Yeah. Where the awesome people live. Right. As opposed to the motherfuckers we were talking about before that.

Here's some more. Even though Good Times was a counterculture like hippie newspaper, once Karkowski came aboard, he ran free ads for these really weird performances called The Mikado, which is a comic opera that deals with themes of death and cruelty. And there's a lot of the Zodiac letters they reference and quote that same play. Wow. Yeah. So like it's some stuff sounds obscure, right. I think it it. Well, ever heard of it. I believe it might be Gilbert and Sullivan.

The Mikado is about Nerd's. Am I right. So that's a connection and so so Stijn, the cab driver, was killed on San Francisco's Washington Street. There's only one guy.

No, no, no one. Nobody lives there. But Washington have been in Washington 25 years. Oh, someone's someone's shirt at the meet and greet last night said, well, there hasn't been a Karen in Sacramento for 25 years. Isn't that the best imagine if people made shirts about your life, it's fucking red. It's like a stereo. And they gave them they gave us one, right? Right. Because I was like, can I have one?

She took it off. OK, so get him out of here. OK, so there's only one guy, Koutsky, that was listed in the city directory at that time. And that was Richard Guy Kousuke, his cousin. She lived on Washington Street and her birthday was October 11th, the same day Stein was murdered at the Zodiac.

So you think he probably went out there to check in to the Presidio for his cousin's birthday party, brought a nice bottle of wine, maybe what the editor of the violence newspaper is like, guys, I got to cut out early. I love my cousin so much. She is so sweet. That's right. My cousin lives here.

I'm going to go bring her I'm going to bring Carol a fucking bottle of Beaujolais.

I don't know what was popular in the 60s. That was that was the line to be. That's right. I got to go.

And then on the way home, he fucking hops in a cab and fucking kills the cab driver. Boom. Solved. Done. Good night.

We're sorry we brought you here and so. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. Carol is not so Carol. Who's Paul Stein's sister.

The cab driver sister actually said that she recognized Guy Koski as having attended Paul's funeral even though she had no idea who he was.

She remembers seeing him at the funeral because she had seen him in the neighborhood before something. No, I saw the cops were like, did you see anyone at the funeral? That was huge. It was like that fucking dude, oh, who's that guy?

And it was soon OK. Then again, he was a journalist, so maybe he sometimes just went to.

No, you don't just drop in to funerals. No, you know, no, they're the worst people crying and everyone's like, this is. Oh, my God, I'm so sad. Yeah. Oh, how do you feel, guys? You a couple questions about crying. That's true.

Plus, I didn't know it was Zodiac at first, so maybe this guy is looking good. I know. I like him for it, as they say. Yeah, we're insiders. Yeah. We're friends with the cop now. That's right. Same potholes.

Gostkowski served in the army in the nineteen fifties and he trained as a medic.

OK, and one of the medics tactics there was that they learn was to tear the clothing of a bleeding victim to use as bandages if they didn't have access to the proper equipment in the field and they used the undershirt first with the shirttail bring preferred if tucked in because it was what's it called when it's clean, clean, clean, sanitized.

I mean, not real clean, I guess would be a better word. Cleans the perfect word. Clean is a good word.

So so that's what that was the tactic they used. And on October 13th, 1969, a San Francisco Chronicle received a letter from the Zodiac containing containing a portion of Stein's bloody shirt that was taken from the scene before the cops got there and took credit for the killing. And what was sent was a neat rectangular tailpiece of the victim's shirt that had been torn off perfectly by the killer. Well, so he's only one person in the army is huge, but still.

So let's not let it go. Let's jump to conclusions. OK, also, the dispatcher who spoke with the Zodiac on July 5th, nineteen sixty nine named Nancy.

She said it was his voice, but I think she said that about a couple of those suspects. So and it was like forty years later that she said it was him.

Sorry. Are you talking shit, Nancy? No, no. I love Nancy. She's that's one of the hardest jobs. Taxi dispatcher So, OK, here's the big thing.

So before before she became a victim of the Zodiac, Darlene Ferrin, she's from Vallejo, California. She got married on January 1st, 1966, and moved to Albany, New York. OK, OK. I koskie followed quickly moved across the country from Martinez, which is near Vallejo, affordable.

Let's just all tasteful, audible, audible. Martinez So Darlene's husband, they moved they all moved to Albany, nearly nine a.m. to Albany because he worked at the Albany Times Union newspaper. And one guy, Koski, quickly picked up and fucking followed them from Vallejo to Albany. He worked in the same exact same building as her husband at the rival Albany Knickerbocker News. So they both worked in the same fucking building and he later killed her. OK, why are you laughing?

I don't know what they're doing, but here's my question. I think they're laughing at the word Knickerbocker, which is kind of lame. Well, I thought I said something here, but here's my question. He's essentially stalking a married couple. It just we don't know if they even knew each other, but it's a really weird coincidence.

Yes. These two people's lives overlap like this. And he, you know. Yes.

Yes. So and he did kill couples there.

You said at first.

So maybe in August 19th, so then in August of 1973, four years after he killed or someone killed Darlene Ferrin, let's just say him, let's just use his last name from now on instead of saying zodiacal, right after she was killed by the Zodiac, the Albany Times Union newspaper where her husband worked, received a letter pertaining to you're saying it was from the Zodiac Killer and threatening to murder his next victim at a certain time and date.

So he sent it to that newspaper on the fucking East Coast.

Yeah. What worked? I don't know. I mean, these are not coincidences. There's no such thing, except there are.

OK, that was spiritual Georgia and then not so spiritual Georgia.

Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. This thing, the psychology dismissing theories. No, I wrote it all in cipher. I'm trying to write it. What going to say this challenge. I want to it's like a little flag and then there was a red flag and an exclamation mark next.

I don't know what that meant. Um, so in 1971, Gutkowski is an involuntary committed to a mental hospital after quote and I don't know who quote who said this, but I bet they were fun going berserk.

Did you say he was voluntarily or involuntarily? It's a big difference. I get those Wednesday deadlines, man, if I can when it's down to the wire.

You lose your shit. That's right.

He's committed to what? He was committed to a mental asylum for a couple of years. The Zodiac never wrote any letters during that three year period. Nothing quiet.

Coincidence number twenty six. And then in the cipher where he says he he he'll reveal his name. The four symbols at the end of the sentence is gwai key, which is what he would sometimes maybe call him. It doesn't make any sense. You guys are just grasping at straws at this point. Hold on.

Are you saying he made up his own nickname and it was just a bunch of consonants? OK, so his is his last name is. It's pretty rad.

His last name is Gutkowski, so it's OK. So he would sometimes just shorten his name to IRC or Geikie, but G KaIi is in the cipher once it's translated. I don't fucking know.

This is the most convincing one yet. Yeah. What's the first one.

Shoot. Yeah but I agree. OK.

To date his DNA has never been tested against the Zodiac's and he was, but he was cleared of fingerprints by the FBI in 1989 because they had fingerprints at the taxi driver signs in blood. And he died of cancer in San Francisco on April 30th, 2004. And the SFP have ruled him out as a suspect. But the DNA thing is like so they got the DNA off, the letters off licked stamps and the licked envelopes.

But what if he had someone else looking like he would absolutely take it down to like a 7-Eleven and just be like, can I get a pack of marble reds and really quick like this, just do it and have a weird look in his eye where if you worked, I would be like, OK, anything else. Yeah. That in like that it sounds like like that kind of thing. He like to fuck obviously with the cops, with these letters.

So why wouldn't you fuck with them with like fingerprints and his saliva and like the fingerprints could even be faked, you know what I mean.

Well and also were they the fingerprints inside a cab where one hundred people are all every day, but they might have been in blood.

So I don't know what that you know, it's so complicated, this one.

This is hard for us to solve tonight. But we're going to sit here until we do until we run out of canned wine. I say the piece I like the most is that ripping the material because I've never heard that connection before. That's so interesting. Right. All right. And this guy, OK, the next one is everyone's fucking favorite, this dickhead, Arthur Leigh Allen.

Yes. God, what a dick. We call him Mr. Squirrels. Oh, really? No, I mean from the movie. Oh yeah. Remember? No, I don't.

OK, clearly I barely remember anything. Who's he played my again. I know you.

Nobody is old. That's going to take me probably ten minutes. No, it's like a comedian who's got like the Arthur Lee Allen. Yeah. No, no. It's the husband from Fargo. The movie Fargo. Yeah, it's him. And I do know is that I think he was my friend. Sarah's stepfather. Yeah. Yeah. And he's he's super cool. He's a really good actor. And he also used to be the Dungeon Master for her group's Dungeons and Dragons.

Yeah, right. So she would be there like, no, you're an elf or whatever. And I was like, I almost I'm going to do Dungeons and Dragons to remember his name. It's going to take me a second.

Who did I think it was? It was that comedian. No. Did you think it was Dave Kuchner? Yeah. Yes, she's talking about Dave Kuchner, who is from Inkerman, he's the cowboy guy. Yeah, right. But they look exactly the same. Right. So it's on them and that's it's not your fault in any way.

OK, Bubba, but Arthur Leigh Allen, he's born in Honolulu, Hawaii. You guys know what Honolulu is? December 18th. Nineteen thirty three.

He's he becomes the most scrutinized of all the suspects. And he's also the only suspect ever to be served with search warrants by the police, which is crazy. And all these crimes, the only person to have. I can go on the search warrant. That's bananas. OK, in our friend Robert Graysmith book, he's and the Jake Gyllenhaal, you know him as Jake Gyllenhaal, right.

He and the movie which the movie Zodiac is based on. He's portrayed as the prime suspect played by our friend and stepdad to all. Clearly, someone knows it.

Lou Dobbs, Lou Dobbs, Sloup diversity. That's not even a name, Lou. We got it. She's got it.

Thanks. I got it. Say it again. Sloup Celebratin, it's not loose Alverson and it's not loose Silverton. She's doing her best. We'll get it later. It also doesn't matter. We could probably have someone in the front row just Google it real quick so that that person isn't mad. Does anyone want to just be a stand? It doesn't work with you. It doesn't work here for girls. Just OK, everybody. At the same time, you just you can you see it in your mind's eye.

Four people are like, we're going to solve this problem. We're going to save this show. Thank you so much.

I want everyone right now to come up on stage. And one person we're going to yell something to you from the audience and you have to guess what it is and they're going to watch you. Can't you hear how it's all you can fuck in here also because.

Yes. Will you say it, Carol, John. Carol Lynch. Thank you, Lou. Well done. Did you guys know, Danny, Google here tonight said that he was the inventor. You Google. Thank you so much. OK, very good. That was very good bye. But not worth it. Great. Great exercise. Moving on. OK. Ba ba ba ba ba zodiac. Alan was questioned by police in 69 and again in 71 after his former friend because he added he wouldn't stay friends with this guy named Don Chaney.

He's like, yo, you guys got to look at my friend. We were hunting. And he was like, you know, what I want to do one day is kill couples at random.

I want to call myself the Zodiac, and I want to use a flashlight attached to my gun to eight hunting at night. And China and people like he basically was like, I want to do these things and then went and did them. And Don was like, yo, this is what this guy looks like.

And what do you want to do that for the friends? Like, I want to run really far away from you. He just don't want to stop screaming ever again. I just I'm very upset.

Also, as we saw in the movie, this asshole wore his watch was a brand called Zodiac and had the famous crosshairs symbol. His mom had given him the watch in nineteen sixty seven, like two years before the murder start. He owned the same caliber gun used as the one in the Zodiac shootings, and he told police he was the day of the bear attack like Baraza attacks.

That's right. He was like, yeah, no.

I had I had knives in my car that were covered in blood, but I killed chickens.

And those chickens were like nely that Texans are in the background. And it's not this is not true. Yeah. Right here. Talking so clearly. Clearly, you're also owned the royal typewriter that was similar to the ones that were used in some of the letters.

And then he was dishonorably discharged from the Navy, which I guess they were the military style boots that had the impressions that were at some of the crime scenes.

And he was also guy's a fucking pedophile.

So even if he wasn't like, I'm listening to this this like recording of him being like how how old timey boys, how dare they? And I wouldn't I could never kill anyone. And I, I you know, you're my person.

Can't get a good innocent until proven guilty in the whole time. If you're a fucking pedophile did so you don't you don't get to fucking you don't get anything. You don't get any goodbye. Goodbye forever. You know what he gets. He gets a trailer full of squirrels. Come on. Let's talk about that scene from that movie. Where else? Because they're in Santa Rosa, which is right by my hometown.

Right.

Which if there's anything that perfectly describes Santa Rosa, it's a trailer full of fucking squirrels. It's just like, I don't know, do I want to go up there? Do you like live squirrels in a trailer? Then have that.

Let me show you his stupid idiot face. Oh, it looks just like the comedian from Anchorman, doesn't it?

It kind of looks like every dude in comedy. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I'm I'm friends with a lot of that guy. Yeah. I've drank with this guy a lot. I'm like, don't tell me about bands. I have to listen to you anymore. Huh. I don't want to hear it.

So he was fired from his school teacher job for child molestation accusations in nineteen sixty eight, right. When the when the murder started. His house is located just ten minutes walk from the payphone at the corner of Spring Road. And that other road intersection or the zodiac first made us call to the police.

He fucking lives 10 minutes from there. Yeah, it's him. He looks good for it. It's him and the other guy for sure.

Neck and neck.

And then both the Blue Rock Springs attack and the double murder at Lake Herman Road or within fifteen minutes driving distance from his house. So you just had a quick little jaunt and then was a fucking murderer.

His sister in law named Karen.

Confirms that her creepy as fuck brother in law, they showed her some of the letters and she was like some of the words, he condenses in here, my creepy ass brother in law also condenses. So like, you know, he's good for it. Also, she was like, by the way, he knows how to write. He's ambidextrous, which is the absolute hardest word just to make up to figure out how to smell the smell or smell.

Also, he she was like, let me show you this Christmas card he gave us. He spells Christmas like an asshole and an idiot with two S's at the end, just like mass.

That's hilarious. Just like the Zodiac did in his fucking letters. Oh, wishing the police lock him up, lock him up. I'll begin a chant. He's not here. Um, ba ba ba ba ba. And Arthur Lee's actual brother, Ronald, he says it's unlike you remember his former friend Don who ratted him out. His brother was like, Don wouldn't make shit up, not his brothers. He was like, Don, if Don says something is true, it's true.

You can believe him. Wow.

Yeah. Not his own fucking brother, that insane child molester.

He also, Don, also confided to the brother that Arthur Leigh Allen had made inappropriate advances with his children.

So that's probably why they were former friends. And he is a murderer.

OK, yeah, we're on strike. Fifty two now with this guy. There's a connection with Darlene Ferrin because she worked at the IHOP and he loved to hang out there also. I mean, we all do, you know, and and he's also a suspect in the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders, where at least seven unsolved homicides of female hitchhikers in Sonoma County in Santa Rosa, and 72 and 73, some of the wires that was used to tie up these victims matched the wires in the Zodiac shit.

There was chipmunk hair. Yes. On everything. Right. That's your favorite? Yes. He lived in the area. The guy was rodent crazy.

Um, he was arrested in 1974 for child molestation and he went to prison for a while and the Zodiac letters stopped then as well. And then as soon as he got out, like a couple of months later, they get another letter. And then Michael Maggio, who survived the attacks, pointed him out in 1991 as the dude. But he you know, he had he kind of said a couple of weird things. So they were like, well, we can't we can't use this.

This asshole dies of a heart attack in nineteen ninety two. They say, well, he didn't match any of the descriptions, his fingerprints didn't match and his palm print didn't match DNA didn't match saliva, all the shit and but again, could it be that thing of like it's tricky brewing.

Yeah right. The annals of unsolved crime. Famed JFK assassination researcher. I don't know what I wrote here, this guy, Edward Epstein. And I think this is fun. Let's go with this.

Thinks that Arthur Leigh Allen could have been responsible for the first two attacks, but a copycat or copycats were responsible for the rest of them, which I think is a cool no now and then the letters were all by one person.

Yeah, but I feel like that they would say that was a copycat because the Zodiac was so like, pay attention to me and put this in the newspaper or I'll kill a bunch of kids on a bus or whatever, like, yeah, I don't think they would let the real Zodiac would allow somebody else to step on his shit like that for sure.

Thank you. I'm a professional criminologist, psychologist.

So for nearly five decades, police and amateur sleuths have tried to name who he was. They can't figure it out and that's still unsolved. Here's the final or final suspect I.

And look. Yes, he was no better dad on that is dead on. Absolutely. God, it's eerie, it's so eerie how creepy how like someday they'll figure out how he did it when he was not born yet and the baby. Yeah, but but I think it's more of intention and what you have in your heart that could create a serial killing. And when you're a toddler and those are the Zodiac suspects of life, like so beautiful.

Beautiful button. Yeah, thank you. Now we're cooking with fire. Mm hmm. All right, I'm going to do the murder of Stephanie Bryan. All right, I was going to do can I tell the story? But I'm not trying to Steven, I'm not shitting on you. I swear to God. Don't tell them what it is because I'm actually doing it tomorrow night. So I'll just keep it, General. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this here's what happened.

Well, then you should have gone to the show you in charge we go totally squirrel in a trailer on, you know, so I had this one ready. But when we do live shows, you know, sometimes it's like we don't we want to say fun and we're all alive and having a good time. But Ted, fucking Cruise, you know, we want to have a good time. And so this one I really like and it's good, but it's you know, it is obviously the murder, a murder.

And so I was like last night, I was like, oh, my God, I have it. I have the perfect one, because it's just something that's happened around here that you will find out tomorrow night if you go see Georgia, tell her story. So I think you're going you should plug your ears and then we'll tell everyone. Oh, yeah, that's right. But I text even at you know, when I'm like mid goldfish, mac and cheese and I'm like, hey, I want to change my thing.

And he's like, sounds great. And I bet you the other end of that story is Steven. I was like I was in a bar or something because then he texted us this morning. He's like, I just checked my files. I screwed up. And you can't do that one because George is doing it, which almost never happens. And I was like, no, Karen can't have that.

He texted me, was like, I screwed up. And I told Karen she could do it. And I think he was waiting for me to write back and be like myself. I'm like, it's OK. It's like it's already in the works or no, I can't pick another one now.

Karen, she's fucked, but. I'm sorry, Stephen, like sending him to tell her she's in shit up a creek or whatever, I'll just say that I just love the fact that everyone was scared to text me. That's I'm just saying there's definitely downsides to being a big bitch. But there's tons of upsides, which is no one said shit to you about anything. Thank you. Thank you so much.

I'm learning that it's fun to be a bitch and just be like, well, you need health care. It you learn that also if you make daily television where like if somebody if somebody starts up, there's oftentimes and I'm sure in lots of people's jobs, if it's like a high pressure job and it'll be people that come to you, like, I really screwed up this thing in the river. It's like, well, that's your problem. Yeah. That's the most satisfying thing in the world, to fix it, fix it or get fired.

So Stephen got fired. So Stephen is fired. Never talk about him again. No, I probably shouldn't have told you any of that, but I like to do it behind the curtain, peek into it anyway.

So basically, this story is I'm just going to do a retelling of one of my favorite episodes of the TV show, A Crime to Remember, which is one of the best produced true crime television shows on TV. They basically took the old idea where if you're going to do a true crime reenactment, you know, like we've been watching really shitty, really violent and kind of, I would say sexist reenactments where like it's like, do you have to stab the girl in the red bra again?

We get that part. You said it already. Well, a crime to remember. Basically, they do all old cases and then they make these beautiful it almost looks like a movie where they do these reenactments. They're really gorgeously shot and really well put together. So it's a great TV show if you haven't watched it already. But I know you all have. So you're like, shut up. So this takes place in Berkeley in spring of nineteen fifty five.

Yes. UC Berkeley.

The fighting firebacks.

Yeah, the fighting Biomax. We really love college sports and we follow all the teams. That's right. And we want to make sure that every city we go to acknowledge, we acknowledge our team and we really we support your whole college experience, which no one gives a shit about. OK, April 20th, nineteen fifty five. Stephanie Bryans, a 14 year old girl whose family has just moved to Berkeley from Massachusetts about two years before her father's a doctor.

Her mom is a homemaker. They have five kids. Stephanie is the oldest. She's smart, she's quiet, and she's a rule follower. So when she is not home from school by four o'clock that Thursday afternoon, April twenty eighth, nineteen fifty five, her mother immediately knows something's wrong immediately. So she immediately starts calling around. She calls the school and she calls Stephanie's friends and nobody's seen her. And then she finally gets a hold of Stephanie's friend, a girl named Ann Stewart.

And Marianne Stewart says, yeah, we walked home when school got out. We walked to the library, we checked out some library books, and then we went over to the donut shop and we checked out some donut books and. Yeah, right. You know, the way you kind of like, walk around your town after school not so long ago. So then on the way on that walk home, she decides they when it comes to like where they're going to split apart.

Stephanie tells Mary, I'm going to take this shortcut. And it's over by the Claremont Hotel tennis courts. And so she says, you know, this time they know how Orit see those tennis courts are. So she says goodbye to Mary Ann and she takes this wooded path back to her house. Bow, stay out of even the woods in nineteen fifty five. Just stay out of wooded lanes, even if it looks pretty straight away from nature, guys.

So by five thirty, Stephanie's dad is home from work and she's still not home. And he's like, we're calling the police. So he calls the police. They come over to take the report. And of course back then when teenagers weren't home, you know, after school at the proper time, the normal response used to be, it's fine and calm down and they'll be back in this. This always ends up that they come back. But when the when the police talk to the Bryan family and they get the sense of what this family is like and everything, they know something is very wrong.

And so at nine o'clock that night, they put out an APB for a missing person. So this was also nineteen fifty five, which feels kind of late. But it was still the time where reporters, like reporters would hang out in the police station and listen for APB so they could write stories. And they would also go to like if the police were going to serve a search warrant. They go with the cops and then just stand around ready to, like, write down stuff.

They got found like the girl. They were right there with everything. So they there's a bunch of reporters in the station when the APB goes out. So they hear it. They immediately report that a girl is gone missing in the afternoon that day and tips come flooding in immediately. Most of the first reports talk about a man who was driving erratically with a young girl in the back of the car who matched Stephanie's appearance. And basically, the only thing most people could say was that the car was brown and that the man had brown hair and that there was no license plate that they could see.

So the police start to theorize that because Stephanie's father is a doctor and they, you know, they kind of live in a nicer area, that maybe her disappearance is kidnap for ransom. So they tap all the Bryans phones. And thirty two hours later, a call comes in. So a man demands five thousand dollars for Stephanie's safe return and he tells Dr. Bryant, you have to meet me to bring this five grand no cops. And Dr. Brian, because he's a smart person, is like, hey, all cops come with me and they go down to make this exchange and they end up arresting an eighteen year old who had nothing to do with it and was basically just trying to get money from a grieving family.

Four days after Stephanie goes missing, a man is driving down Franklin Canyon Road, which is an hour away from Berkeley.

Down that road, he pulls over because he needs to go pee in a field and he walks out into this field and finds Stephanie's French book laying out there. So police how many people? I was thinking this is I was watching it. People would have just like tried to pee on the book and leave and never talk about it or think about it again. You wouldn't even cross my mind that that's what that is for. But I will say because because the APB went out so early and because the reporters talked about it so much, all of the Bay Area knew there was a 14 year old girl that.

Had gone missing and possibly was kidnapped, everybody knew it was that an attack of some kind or just like something collapse. OK, let us know if anyone needs help. Someone was offended that I would pee on a French book, which I understand is a tool. OK, so. So they take this lead and they are searching all over that area. Police spend three months interviewing any random creep that has ever done anything even slightly weird in the Bay Area.

Must have been fun. It's just like a like a what's it called?

A school. Never mind what you know, when they when they do when they go on a field trip.

It was like a field trip. To create, yeah, a police field trip, yeah, they would all get on a little bus and just go to the creeps. The cops would come to you back that. Yeah. And you'd be like, no, no, no, stay there. So the entire three months, though, the newspapers talk about it constantly, that everyone's still looking and they really keep it in. Everybody's in the front of everybody's brain.

So that July, a three year old cosmetologist in Alameda. So I love your swap, meet her, love your coastal views. Her name is George Abbott. No one's ever named or never, ever. Twice in one night, she goes into her basement to look for a hat, what to wear to a costume party. And she opens a box. And inside it, she finds a red purse that she doesn't recognize. So she opens the purse and inside she finds Stephanie Bryans ID card.

Yes. So she calls the motherfucking police and she says it is at her house or is like an apartment building, her own house, the creepy feelings. How does she live with. Right. We're about to meet them. OK, so the. So when the when the police come to the Abbot's house, they immediately recognized the person as Stefanie's from a house, Stephanie's mother described all the things that she ate with her that day. And so they question the entire Abbott family.

So they talk to Georgia first. And as she's explaining, I went to the costume party and the little I was there with a pencil like no one gives a shit, give me facts. But as she's doing that, she goes, what was that party that we had auto like party to come in? And then Otto comes in and he was like, it was a country and Western party. So I'm now doing impressions of the people that were in a crime to remember.

This is oh, this is low rent guys. But he gave basically answers and they and so then the cops are like, oh, well, how long have you two been married? And she's like, oh, it's not my husband, my husband's in there. And then the cop looks over and there's just a dude in the dining room eating dinner alone as if the cops aren't his fucking house, just like you think he was eating macaroni and cheese with goldfish crackers on a caravan maybe, but using a knife on it.

Or they're like, this is suspicious.

It's like this guy.

So there of course, the cops are like six red flags of like while a wire auto and Georgia so cozy.

And what is and who's that fucking guy in the dining room so that Burton Abbott is her husband. He's a twenty seven year old Berkeley accounting student and he and Georgia have been married for seven years. They've lived in the neighborhood for five years. And Burton's mother, Elsie, also lives in the house. But when the cops ask where she is, Burton says she doesn't like it when people intrude. And so she left. So she heard the cops are coming.

And she no doubt at all, hey, that's not suspicious. They're not allowed to skedaddle if we come here. No. So Burton tells police they're not going to find anything because he wasn't even in town that day that Stephanie Brian went missing. He'd gone up to the family's fishing cabin and Weaverville.

Now, prove it. We want your I.D., pass your I.D. down to the front, please, Weaverville, six hours away and 300 miles away through the area. As a native Californian, I've never heard of it in my life so far.

It's so great. They have cabins. So the police go check this cabin, which is actually then I was starting to think of what a bummer that is, where it's like you get some lead and then you look at your part. You're like, now we have to drive six hours together to the mountains. I don't really like you. We just didn't we didn't find anything. And then we'll go to let's pre agree. Then we go down to where everybody loves to meet.

I hop with a B.. OK, so that was a bad idea, whoever's idea that was.

But it made for a great joke just now. Right. OK, OK, so when they go up there they, they find no signs of Steffanie or anything around the cabin. Then they go to the restaurant that Burton said he ate at, which is called the Chuck Wagon, which I would fucking kill to go to the baked potato.

But I mean, it's as big as your arm and it's just like toppings everywhere. Yeah. Oh, it was the chuckwagon was actually only it was strictly baked potatoes and they're so big you could get into it like a sleeping bag that was part of their Eat Your Way Out was the theme restaurant you wouldn't understand. So it was the 50s. They did stuff different. They did fun, big baked potato stuff all the time. There's a simple oh, now I'm going to want to do that so bad.

I'm going to think about it all the time because it would be warm, but then convenient for the waitress that works.

There was like, oh yeah, that guy was here. She describes what he was wearing that he said he was wearing. She talks about the conversation that that he had. He basically has an alibi. So they head back to the Bay Area and they basically start at square one. And they're like, we know the Abbotts are weirdos. We have to go back there. There's the reason they said when they were like, well, how would we why would anyone find a missing girls purse in your basement?

And they said, oh, it was actually a polling station recently. So hundreds of people have been in that basement. Basement was a polling station, apparently, and it makes the finished basement half cement and half dirt. Goodbye, nightmare. You're like, I'm here to express my right to OK, I'm gonna sit this one out. And that's why so-and-so won the election. Only we know political. I don't. Jerry Brown. Sure. No, no, no.

Too early. OK, so this time when they go back, they go to search the home, elkies their grandma grandma's there. And they notice also that Berton's car matches the general description of the car.

Arrest that mother fucker right. Coming out of the APB calls that they got. It's brown and he has brown hair and it doesn't have license plates on it. So they call in a really well known criminologist. That was really good. And they have him go over the entire car with a fine tooth comb, like get anything you can and their fibers and hairs and things that can't be used in court anymore. Then they begin digging up half digging up the dirt part of the of the basement.

And as they do it, the reporters are down there with them, like standing around smoking, smoking, smoking in a small basement and watching other people do hard work.

And so they're right there when they hit upon something and they pull up the library books. Stephanie checked out the day that she went missing. Yeah. And her glasses and her bra. Oh, no. That's all buried in this basement. So now everyone is looking at Burton Abbott. Yeah, course. And he is very calm and composed and he denies everything. It's just like he did at the end. He says he didn't know her. He is a father himself, that someone's framing him.

He tells police anyone could have stashed those items right after they voted in the last municipal election. That guy who showed up with a shovel to vote. Yeah, I thought it was him. You know, here's the thing. I thought he was a minor or maybe a gardener or maybe I don't judge people. I want them to vote. Yeah, it's the political right important.

So he tells the press he's innocent.

He because his pictures in the paper as being connected as a suspect. So now he needs to feels the need. To talk to the press as well and say, I'm innocent, I'm clearly being framed. He says he used the word I'm mourning with Stephany's family and he volunteers to give a polygraph test. And the police are like, sounds great. We'll see you there. So as he is being given the polygraph test, he basically is asked to retrace his steps for everything he did on Thursday, April twenty eight.

He says he spent the night in the cabin at the fishing cabin, and then when he talks about his route home, he calls it the, quote, zigzaggy, his route you ever did see.

What are you, a fucking old timey something perv? Yeah. Get out of here. That's. That alone should be like five years in the slammer. Sir, you're just not using your head, sir. He also mentions taking a shortcut along Franklin Canyon Road, which is the same road where Stephanie French book is found. Oh, come on, dude.

Right. But the polygraph test comes back inconclusive. So just as their buddy, the cops are like, we have to start over at square one, start reinterviewing everybody, whatever. They get an anonymous note telling them that it's not Bertan, but they need to look closer at Georgia and Hotto. So they decide to talk to the one person who hasn't talked yet. And that's Elsie Abbott. I'll say get your ass out to the dining room and eat your crabby old bitch.

Get out here in the crowd to remember they keep showing her and it looks like she's sewing, but it looks like the the director said what? Can't tell what she's doing. So she's sewing with a big piece of yarn like you used to in kindergarten. Remember to be like you can sew this shape of a rabbit or whatever, but it's like just six pieces of yarn. That's that's what else he's doing on the couch. I'll say no one's buying it.

We don't l.c stop fake sewing makes you look more guilty if you're whistling and old and dumb.

OK, so when the cops sit down with her, she immediately throws George under the bus saying she's a tramp, jumps from man to man. She's very weird. She's slut shaming her daughter in law. Right. And she claims that Georgia has been unfaithful to her son. So then the cops are like, so it could possibly be the Georgian Otto are having an affair and Otto is Otto did it. And he's framing Burton so that he can have Georgia all to himself and and then kill people as well when they go talk to talk to Otto's neighbor.

And Otto's neighbor says that she heard screaming coming from his garage on April twenty eight. Yeah. And now her shovel and hoe are missing from the neighbor. This is one of those neighbors that's like, oh, I have to remember to talk to the police about the screaming. And she's like, oh, guiding lights on. I'm just going to she's that lady. OK, so the that's her fucking shovels got her shovels gone. Her hoe is gone.

They're screaming. They're screaming. That needs to be discussed. Who doesn't immediately be like, listen, they're screaming and it's in a garage. So zero things are happening. That could be good. Yeah. Could you please bring over a blowtorch and every gun that you have as a favor to me, the neighbor, when they bring Otto into the police department, he denies having a sexual relationship with Georgia. And he says everything his neighbor said was a big fucking lie.

And he says that he was paying a traffic ticket in Alameda at the time of Stephanie's disappearance, which is, of course, proven to be true. So he has a rock solid alibi. And so the cops got another dead end. And then this grisly old crime reporter named Ed Montgomery. He's been following this and reporting on it the entire time. And he's convinced that there's something at that cabin.

So he goes up to back up to the cabin and Weaverville and he brings a photographer with him and they start walking around and they walk around the grounds of the cabin and just searching everywhere because it's just all overgrown and they do it all day long. And then finally he goes, you know what? Let's get some bloodhounds up here. So they bring bloodhounds up and the dogs immediately pick up a scent. Within three hundred and thirty feet of the cabin, they find a saddle shoes sticking out of the dirt and they then discover the body of Stephany.

Brian.

Oh, my God. This reporter was like, here's how police work, how well.

Or it's that thing of like, obviously they knew somebody in that family was doing something. And so they were just like, well, if we found all this other evidence in their goddamn basement, we have to keep trying to be in this house. So I think he was just like, well, let's just go explore up here. I'm trying to defend him. For some reason, he's long dead. OK, so they put together the in the coroner's report.

They find out that she had been killed basically right after her abduction. It was a lot of blunt force trauma and they found her underwear were a wreck like around her throat. She did struggle with them. So they go in arrest. Burton, Abbott and her body was too badly decomposed to conclusively prove she'd been raped, but they did charge him with rape and murder kind of anyway. So when when he goes to trial, he gets there and he's acting like he it's like his first day on the red carpet.

He's smiling and joking with reporters and, like, being really charming and stuff like that for me, please.

So not acting like someone who's about to face the death sentence. Right. So there's no evidence that directly connects him except for the circumstantial evidence of it being in his polling place. So but the prosecution argues the burden Abbott attempted to rape Stephany Bryan, and when she resisted, he killed her and he got on the stand and testified for four days. Oh, shit. I know. He said I have nothing to hide. I'm innocent. I will confess.

I will not confess to a crime I didn't do. And he was very calm and soft spoken and saying this is a monstrous frame up. When the jury was out for seven days, they came back and they found Burton Abbott guilty of first degree murder. He's given the death sentence and they send him to San Quentin.

So, oh, I'd hold personally, I would hold. But you can also good to express your feelings in the moment. She's got bad news for I've got bad news for everybody. Burton's execution is scheduled to take place at 11:00 a.m. on March 15th. Nineteen fifty seven. So basically, it's a very boring explanation. But he goes through there's an automatic appeal process. If you get the death penalty back then that then that's denied. And then his attorneys appeal directly.

They try to then do another one to the governor. But Governor Goodwin, Jay Knight is well, that's where I was going to say. Oh, yeah. You know, that's that's the name you're going to take on. The good one, Janai, the great governor of California in nineteen fifty seven. You remember him with the big mustache. He was out at sea on a naval ship just fucking around. So there's people getting killed in jail and people trying to contact him and say maybe this is entirely circumstantial.

Therefore, maybe he stays in jail for the rest of his life. But we don't kill him and they can't get a hold of him. There's a phone on the ship and every time they call, there's two phones on the ship. Both lines are busy. Who's on the phone? Who is gossiping on the phone?

The Naval Reserve girl you would not believe. Hold on. Yes, they just put someone down. Yes. The Navy space work and character work. Amazing. Truly. So they the lawyers hold a press conference so that on TV they can say we're trying to get a hold of the fucking governor and he's on a Navy ship doing crazy ass shit when he phoned by the phone, hang up the phone. God. So it works. And he calls it she's.

So this is at nine, nine o'clock in the morning, and he ends up granting a one hour stay on the day of the execution. That's almost like a prank. It's not cool. Yeah. So then it's basically it's denied the Supreme Court like a writ comes through. It's all shit. I don't understand. I want to say it. I can't do it with confidence. Let's skip it. Great. But then they try another route going to the federal level.

It's denied as well. So they call the governor again. The lines are busy again. Dude, it was it was the Pacific Bell Navy ship that they just had. That's an old reference. Fucking I'm Sibiya. How about a call waiting reference like I needed to get collocations and star 69 and then found out who was calling. They had a hamburger for lunch like a hamburger. Juno. So so finally they have the this is a classic thing.

I don't know if anybody remembers before call waiting. You would if you were on the phone with your friend. Sometimes if your mom's friend really needed to call for some reason, they'd have an operator break into the call. So somebody would like click. I'd be like, get off the fucking phone, you seventh grader. So I know what happened to me. Yeah. So that's what they have to do on the nut. So Navy ship where everybody was communicating.

So at eleven twelve, Governor Knight calls the warden and grants Burton Abbott a stay of execution. Here's the problem. They had started walking Burton Abbott down to the gas chamber and he was in the chair. Oh, and exactly on time at eleven fifteen while the warden and the governor are still chit chatting away on the phone, they dropped sixteen sodium cyanide pellets. When does Ashton Kutcher pop out? No brains guys don't even freak out. Never they the gas drops it begins to fill the chamber.

Bernabe It takes a big huge gulp of breath and holds his breath. The water. The governor's like, Look, I'll stay, we can do a stay and the warden goes, It's too late. Wow, thank you. It is good storytelling is that I've ripped it off directly from a television show, I'm just like the girl in class that won't pay attention is like, did you see a crime? Do you remember last night? I'm going to tell you about it from season one to season twenty to.

Basically, he tells the governor it's too late, Bertan Abbott runs out of air, takes a breath and dies in the gas chamber. Oh, I haven't shown you any pictures, God damn it. I was going to ask you for a photo there. You didn't want to see me. No pictures. There he is, denying, denying, denying nothing to do with it.

Even though I said I was at that cabin and her body was there, somebody else buried that crucial evidence in my basement. Oh, I see our policemen.

I see over there. Over there. I'm going to squat over here. I'll never look over there. You go pee on a French book. Why we're smoking required to be smoking, uh, the coffee breath on these two individuals.

Truly, they both sat up all night in a humungous Ford, just like sitting in the car in a Ford, smoking, eating pistachios, smoking, smoking and spitting for no reason.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, great job, guys. You did it. Oh, this is L.C. Oh my daughter in law's a slut. She says OK, that's her. I don't like it when people intrude in my house.

Who does L.C. OK, I think we're on the last page. One moment. OK, Elsie Abbott, Berton's mother, believe that until her death at one hundred years old that he was innocent. She said the burden was weak and slight and had to be as a child and half a lung, which proves that he could not have killed or carried or buried Stephanie. Oh, honey, I have bad news for you. He did all of that.

He did it. She said she thought she, after his death comes out with this theory. She thinks it's her own brother, a truck driver in San Leandro named Wilbur more. Right. You guys know, she she basically says her own brother did it and not her son. It's later revealed this is the big twist, a rule that Elsa Abbot was actually the first person to find that red purse in the box in the basement two months before Georgia found it.

And she just never said anything.

I mean, she Blinder's over my purse. I found like the one I found in my son's room. This woman was covering. All right. She found it in the room initially. No, that's why I'm making up lies about his childhood, because I'm convinced that he did it. The San Francisco Chronicle called this murder one of the most perplexing cases in the in the age old in the age old annals of crime. And that is the Stephany that is the murder story of Stephany O'Brien.

That is bananas and so sad and twisted is sad and then also it's not satisfying because then you're like, oh, there's potentially two innocent people died or do you think he did it? Yes, OK.

The thing of him holding his breath, OK, anyway, I know it's really dark bananas waiting for him. Yeah.

Let's do a hometown look of it. Is this April everybody. Vince insane from say hello. The podcast has been gone back there. It's good.

It's come to my attention that the term Hella originated in the.

In honor of that, let's keep this hometown Hellertown, thank you. OK, thank you. OK, so that's we're going to do a couple of rules really quick. I know you know them, but this is important. It needs to be local. Oakland would be ideal, but definitely Barria, we don't give a shit what happened in Wisconsin. Don't tell us about it. Obviously needs to be quick because we have to get out of here at a certain time.

So we need you need facts and to be beginning middle and those facts. It's great when you know what happened at the end. So like a button of some kind, you can't be so drunk that you can't follow your own line of thought. That's important in life in general, but especially up here tonight. And just remember, if you get pissed that everyone hates you, so you have to go fast. Yeah, ok. Yeah, do it.

OK, here we got. Do you have one pillow lady? Yeah. OK, come on up. Yeah, the pillow. Go, go fast. Oh, and bring that pillow lately I say fast six times and she jumps up and down with the pillow. We don't have pillow jumping time here. Going to add a little extra pressure.

She just ran out of the theater. She's running to that canned wine.

Oh, there she is. Oh my God.

That was passed on to. What's your name? Heidi. Hi. Nice to meet you. Here, come here. Oh, let me hold this, OK? That's what I love. Where are you from? OK, I'm not from Oakland, but I know now I'm just going to go for that. And this is really good. Where are you from? I'm from Bakersfield.

Let's hear it. OK, so I'll go fast. I've told the story a lot of times. I was in seventh grade and my grandfather had been in the news because he misappropriated some government funds. And it's a good start. It's a good start. That's a good start. So he was on Dateline and that was not good in high school. But anyway, that was OK. So that's just what the cat's about. This about the cats. No, I'm just saying.

Is that why you eat a cat? OK. It's fine. I was making a late joke. I shouldn't have interrupted you. OK, go ahead. I'm not going to convince somebody.

So anyway, so we lived out in this. My dad's a farmer. We live on the farm and this house way out in the country, which happened to be Merle Haggard old house. Is anybody know Merle Haggard? Yes, sure. OK, so Merle Haggard lived on our farm. He bought some acreage and he and then his wife drowned in the river because now the Kern River song and she drowned. And so then he sold the house back, OK?

And so we lived in his house, which is the shape of a horseshoe, which is crazy. And I had a guitar shaped pool in the middle of it, crazy. And it had been abandoned, abandoned, but like nobody lived in it for seven years. And then we moved in it because my dad had to come back to Bakersfield because of the whole, like, lawsuit. Yeah. So he's on the farm. But to my government, my dad, our family was in the news, which is not good for junior high.

But so then. People didn't like our families at the time, and so my parents were out and I was at home with my brother, who is in eighth grade, and John Delaney, who was his friend. And I thought Tom was so cute. And my other sister, who's special needs, she was asleep and my other sister, who is even older, she was out with her boyfriend and my parents had a party. We're playing Monopoly and we start getting these phone calls like we know that you're playing Monopoly.

Who's your friend? That's over. And my sister Aaron is asleep, whereas Cara with her boyfriend and we're like, oh, my God, this is so cool. Like somebody, you know, somebody wants to get out, but this is before cell phones. And then my parents come home like. Like somebody's going to kill us. And so they're like, yeah, OK, so then the phone calls keep on coming and we're still like, Oh my God.

And my dad goes upstairs to the top of the horseshoe and I'm at the bottom of her shoe and the phone rings again. And I'm like, I'm going to pick it up and listen to my dad's like, that's like I'm coming out. And he also said he was going like, rape us. And like, he knew all of our names and he knew what we were doing. And so my dad was like, OK, motherfuckers, you come out here like because he's a farmer, he's like, I will kill you because I have guns.

That's right. And so so then the guy's like, OK, I'm coming, so I'll stop. OK, so then in the meantime, my older sister comes home with her boyfriend, Gino Valparaíso, and Gina was super cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so like so they come up and we're like, they're coming. My mom's like. And so so was at midnight because I was for like 12, 30. She probably was 30. And so then close the door.

You know, I think they kiss and then walk out. It's this was like the old school, 70s mansion with like two hundred yard, big wrought iron gate and the door like genos like doors and them in a car just rammed down the gate.

Oh shit. So this car comes tearing down the driveway, the horseshoe like the outside, which is all windows and the car just comes up and shines like in the windows. And my dad, he just come down in his boxers with guns and he's just like he's like John Blaney. Poor kid is like when you in eighth grade, like 13, 14 is like it's gone of your business one day. I want you to know these guys like girls, get your sister Erin, who special needs and you don't wake up, Erin, and so that was not good.

Erin, we have to go to the top of the horseshoe and get locked in. And so that my mom's on the phone with number one and they're giving us keys because we're we're partners, too. It's like here's keys to the to the ATV and here's keys to the truck. And if somebody comes, I guess could just drive just to the phone with no one. And then we hear a gunshot and my mom actually drops a gun. So I grab it and the lady's like, there's gunshots.

Get your brother inside.

Well, I was upstairs. So the police come. We're on a farm with all these oranges and whatever. There's a big car chase and they never found him. You'll get to know they never shot any, was never allowed to come over and say, oh, my hands down my favorite hometown of all time. Easy, easy rider, you fucking. Kitty, here tonight is that you had a podcast, Chris, you get a podcast, you broke every rule and you nailed it.

Like, unbelievably, that was an. Heidi, everybody just she's at the end. Yeah, so of course, the girl with the I don't know, I think the one person with a little brain that's not going to do for him. No. Oh, my God. That's my favorite story I've ever heard. Oh, yeah. She must be scared of, like, cars and headlights and keys. His guitar shaped pools. Yeah. Merle Haggard.

Heidi nailed it. Amazing. Wow. Oh, my gosh. That's beautiful. Oh, Glenn, you angel. This show has been amazing. Thank you so much. That was gut level. You're welcome. It's been a while since we've been here and we appreciate you guys welcoming us back. We fucking love it here. We love the Bay Area.

It's one of our favorite places to be. Yes, it's very it's for me, it's very exciting because it's kind of it's like coming home and being here with you guys and being here at the Paramount, not working at the Gap on upper market, but instead being here in a fancy theater, doing basically my favorite thing I've ever done for a living in my life, which is doing this podcast, or Georgiade Stark and fucking talking about your crime, which we all love so much.

And we used to think we weren't allowed to say we loved it and now we can say whatever the fuck we want and it's the best. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for letting us do this amazing. We love you guys. Thanks for being here and thanks for being so good to each other. Keep it up. It's important, especially these days. Stay connected, talk to each other. It's so cool to watch you guys all becoming such great friends.

It's just this is also exciting and we're so thrilled. So thank you for everything. Stay sexy and die.