Before we begin, a quick warning that in this show we discuss child abuse, and this content may be difficult for some listeners. If you or anyone you know is a victim or survivor of medical child abuse, please go to munchausensupport.com to connect with professionals who can help. Over the last several years, there has like that. And so it was just. It was so severe to the point I was having to do almost daily check ins with my team to make sure I didn't need to go to the hospital. And by this point, I refused to go to any hospitals because of my trauma.Once Joe understood that the hospitals where they'd spent so much of their childhood had been, at least in part, the scene of the crime, they became terrified of them. Even as confusingly, they still felt some safety and comfort in medical settings.I think I've always had this very deep fear of doctors that became a lot bigger once I had realized everything that had happened. However, it kind of went back and forth. I think a lot of my desire to go to hospitals was the more, like, subconscious sort of thing, that I wasn't really aware of that behavior or that desire until I found out about the MBP and started to work through that trauma. Whereas my fear of hospitals had always been a lot stronger. So I didn't go for those yearly checkups or do any of those things, things that usually you would start to do as an adult.In an effort to process what had happened to them, they took to social media to tell their story and to try and find community. And it wasn't long before their harrowing tale caught the attention of some producers, who asked Joe to bring it to a much bigger stage.I used to be part of a Facebook group for survivors of Munchausen by proxy, and somebody had posted on there about someone from the doctors is wondering if anyone wants to share their experience. And I don't know, I must have been the first person to send an email. And they emailed me back and were like, hey, do you want to come down in, like, five days and be on this show or something, like, super fast? And I remember I had never been on a plane before. I had never really. I've definitely never been to California or, like, really to any other states. And so I decided to take a risk and go. I remember being so scared because they needed permission, essentially, from my mother for me to be on the show and to be talking about her.The doctors was a spinoff of the Doctor Phil show that ran from 2008 to 2022. It was hosted by ER physician and one time star of the Bachelor, Travis Stork. And there was a regular panel that included a pediatrician an Ob GYN and a plastic surgeon who discussed a wide range of medical topics. Donna somehow misinterpreted Joe's television appearance as having to do with the sexual abuse that they'd experienced as a child, rather than the various and relentless traumas Donna herself had inflicted upon both of her children. And so Donna was eager to share the spotlight.So she started begging me to come with and be there for me because she was a really big part of this other trauma and supposedly feels guilty about it. And so she wanted to right those wrongs.So your mom didn' I learned to while we've been doing this podcast is there were many reports made. There were different reports made from my first grade teacher. There were reports made, you know, by various people, which makes it all the.More.Upsetting, I guess, that nothing ever happened when it wasn't like it was just you that knew. Like there were so many people that were aware. I mean, in that confidential file was that anonymous note that somebody sent you.People knew. Even though Doctor Wilson knew the likelihood of intervention was slim, she did her best to mitigate the harm.When we're not sure about everything yet, a lot of times we're trying to corral the parent, say she's just a super, highly anxious and somewhat mentally ill parent. I'm trying to corral that person so that she's using the same providers that are aware of the situation, so that she can't get out of control with what she's doing to her child. And I'm trying to make sure that things are documented, and I'm trying myself. You know, ethically, I am not supposed to harm my patients. That's that first, do no harm. I do not want to harm my patients, even if it's just by affirming an untruth. Now, it used hand and would not let go. And I couldn't drive at that time, and so I would always find rides to get there, things like that. But I stayed by her side, and I bought her a Bible that I went through the entire Bible, and I don't even know what verses it was, but I highlighted all these verses, and I just kept telling her, if you come out of it, I'll move back home. We can win this together. We can get through this together. Me and you against the world. It always has been. And so when she did come out of it, I would go and I'd brush her hair, and I'd put headbands in her hair. And it was a really, like, pleasant time. It was one of the nicest times I would say that I'd ever really had with her. And then she went to rehab, and during that time, I still was like, I want to go home, and stuff like that.And I had more visitations with her. I wasn't supposed to see her outside of visitation times, but it looks like. I don't remember this, but it looks like those CPS records that I was seeing her outside of scheduled times, but I just wanted to be back with her. And then there was some times that I think reality would hit of, like, Joey, your mom's gonna drink again. And so then when that would, like, hit, I would be back to being like, oh, I wanna stay with my dad. And I was kind of like, yo yoing between this. But a lot of the records, it's so interesting to see, like, the therapist I was seeing and the social worker and my stepmom, like, all just, like, saying how I was really enmeshed with my mom.This pattern was a tactic of Donna's. She would reliably have a health crisis whenever she wanted to pull people back in. So this was not a coincidence that all of this happened the moment Jo was taken out of the home and was beginning to get some distance.Nobody ever told me like, hey, we think, like, you're codependent, or, like, we think this thing's going on. It was just in the notes that I could see what people really thought. But eventually, my mom started telling people that I was having back problems. And so then she kept saying, like, she needed to take me to all my doctor's appointments, which, in the records, in the CPS records, they told her, like, no, you don't have to take her to the CP or to the doctor's appointments. You can, but you don't have to. But. So she started taking me to these appointments for this back pain that I was having. And eventually, I mean, she convinced me I could barely walk, and so I was having all of this back pain, and they couldn't find anything wrong, and so they had me do pt. They gave me injections. Like, they tried all these different things, but I was convinced by this point that, like, I was really in pain. And my And that was life changing. That's when I started to be able to suddenly travel. I went to ten places after that, and I'd never really traveled before July. So that was really, really huge. I could suddenly walk down the street without being so afraid. So many things in my life changed then. And then, just like a month ago, I had another, I guess, revelation. Sort of that, no, I'm no longer afraid of being bad because I see the shared humanity in everyone. And even in my mom. I think my mom needs accountability and boundaries. And I can't have a relationship with her for my own safety and things like that. And I still think my mom, like, deserves respect and care from people that are able to provide that safely without being taken advantage of or harmed. But I think that, for me, has really changed how I view myself within all of it.Because I don't have to be afraid of being bad, because I don't really see anyone being bad or evil. I see us all as just messy, messy humans. And some people need more boundaries and things like that. And accountability is still important, but. So, yeah, so that's been a huge piece for me. But then I think I talked to someone else from my childhood via text, and they had said I was just a good kid in a bad situation. It's one thing for me to start seeing it in myself, but to know that, like, other people saw it in me as well, really just feels wild. Like I don't understand it, but has also started to shift, I think the way that I see that little kid or that teenager or that young adult that was really just trying to survive.So are your other parts, do they or is that just really the adult Joe that's processing it?That's a beautiful question. I think that there's a mix, for sure. Definitely some parts, I mean, I have, like, no, what I call co consciousness with. So some parts I don't think have any awareness of the here and now life and are very much still very, like, stuck in the past. So those parts definitely are not, I don't think, absorbing things. I think I try to, as best I can, do a lot of work on constantly reminding myself of these things or when there are triggers. And I want to hide in a closet or I want to hurt myself or whatever it is like that comes up in response to a different trigger. Trying to like constantly when I'm able to and have the co consciousness remind myself, or having written reminders or things that are like, things are different now, we're safe now, we aren't bad. Like we know these things. Like I have stuff posted in my room or on my phone or my computer or things like that that I think kind of definitely help, but I think obviously it definitely there's a lot of healing still to do for all parts.Jo and all of their parts have come a long way in the past several years, and while Joe's story involves a lot of trauma, as they've healed, they've gotten to embrace the person they are beyond all of that. They've finally gotten to come of age in a way that they were never allowed to before. Next time we look at who Joe is today, it seems like they put a lot of intentional effort to like have resources available to them now. Nobody should believe me is written, hosted, and produced by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our senior producer and editor is Mariah Gossett. Greta Stromquist is our associate producer, engineering by Robin Edgar and administrative support from Nola Carmouche. Music provided by Johnny Nicholson and Joel Shupack, with additional music and sounds from Soundsnap and thank you to cadance three for additional recording support.

like that. And so it was just. It was so severe to the point I was having to do almost daily check ins with my team to make sure I didn't need to go to the hospital. And by this point, I refused to go to any hospitals because of my trauma.

Once Joe understood that the hospitals where they'd spent so much of their childhood had been, at least in part, the scene of the crime, they became terrified of them. Even as confusingly, they still felt some safety and comfort in medical settings.

I think I've always had this very deep fear of doctors that became a lot bigger once I had realized everything that had happened. However, it kind of went back and forth. I think a lot of my desire to go to hospitals was the more, like, subconscious sort of thing, that I wasn't really aware of that behavior or that desire until I found out about the MBP and started to work through that trauma. Whereas my fear of hospitals had always been a lot stronger. So I didn't go for those yearly checkups or do any of those things, things that usually you would start to do as an adult.

In an effort to process what had happened to them, they took to social media to tell their story and to try and find community. And it wasn't long before their harrowing tale caught the attention of some producers, who asked Joe to bring it to a much bigger stage.

I used to be part of a Facebook group for survivors of Munchausen by proxy, and somebody had posted on there about someone from the doctors is wondering if anyone wants to share their experience. And I don't know, I must have been the first person to send an email. And they emailed me back and were like, hey, do you want to come down in, like, five days and be on this show or something, like, super fast? And I remember I had never been on a plane before. I had never really. I've definitely never been to California or, like, really to any other states. And so I decided to take a risk and go. I remember being so scared because they needed permission, essentially, from my mother for me to be on the show and to be talking about her.

The doctors was a spinoff of the Doctor Phil show that ran from 2008 to 2022. It was hosted by ER physician and one time star of the Bachelor, Travis Stork. And there was a regular panel that included a pediatrician an Ob GYN and a plastic surgeon who discussed a wide range of medical topics. Donna somehow misinterpreted Joe's television appearance as having to do with the sexual abuse that they'd experienced as a child, rather than the various and relentless traumas Donna herself had inflicted upon both of her children. And so Donna was eager to share the spotlight.

So she started begging me to come with and be there for me because she was a really big part of this other trauma and supposedly feels guilty about it. And so she wanted to right those wrongs.

So your mom didn' I learned to while we've been doing this podcast is there were many reports made. There were different reports made from my first grade teacher. There were reports made, you know, by various people, which makes it all the.More.Upsetting, I guess, that nothing ever happened when it wasn't like it was just you that knew. Like there were so many people that were aware. I mean, in that confidential file was that anonymous note that somebody sent you.People knew. Even though Doctor Wilson knew the likelihood of intervention was slim, she did her best to mitigate the harm.When we're not sure about everything yet, a lot of times we're trying to corral the parent, say she's just a super, highly anxious and somewhat mentally ill parent. I'm trying to corral that person so that she's using the same providers that are aware of the situation, so that she can't get out of control with what she's doing to her child. And I'm trying to make sure that things are documented, and I'm trying myself. You know, ethically, I am not supposed to harm my patients. That's that first, do no harm. I do not want to harm my patients, even if it's just by affirming an untruth. Now, it used hand and would not let go. And I couldn't drive at that time, and so I would always find rides to get there, things like that. But I stayed by her side, and I bought her a Bible that I went through the entire Bible, and I don't even know what verses it was, but I highlighted all these verses, and I just kept telling her, if you come out of it, I'll move back home. We can win this together. We can get through this together. Me and you against the world. It always has been. And so when she did come out of it, I would go and I'd brush her hair, and I'd put headbands in her hair. And it was a really, like, pleasant time. It was one of the nicest times I would say that I'd ever really had with her. And then she went to rehab, and during that time, I still was like, I want to go home, and stuff like that.And I had more visitations with her. I wasn't supposed to see her outside of visitation times, but it looks like. I don't remember this, but it looks like those CPS records that I was seeing her outside of scheduled times, but I just wanted to be back with her. And then there was some times that I think reality would hit of, like, Joey, your mom's gonna drink again. And so then when that would, like, hit, I would be back to being like, oh, I wanna stay with my dad. And I was kind of like, yo yoing between this. But a lot of the records, it's so interesting to see, like, the therapist I was seeing and the social worker and my stepmom, like, all just, like, saying how I was really enmeshed with my mom.This pattern was a tactic of Donna's. She would reliably have a health crisis whenever she wanted to pull people back in. So this was not a coincidence that all of this happened the moment Jo was taken out of the home and was beginning to get some distance.Nobody ever told me like, hey, we think, like, you're codependent, or, like, we think this thing's going on. It was just in the notes that I could see what people really thought. But eventually, my mom started telling people that I was having back problems. And so then she kept saying, like, she needed to take me to all my doctor's appointments, which, in the records, in the CPS records, they told her, like, no, you don't have to take her to the CP or to the doctor's appointments. You can, but you don't have to. But. So she started taking me to these appointments for this back pain that I was having. And eventually, I mean, she convinced me I could barely walk, and so I was having all of this back pain, and they couldn't find anything wrong, and so they had me do pt. They gave me injections. Like, they tried all these different things, but I was convinced by this point that, like, I was really in pain. And my And that was life changing. That's when I started to be able to suddenly travel. I went to ten places after that, and I'd never really traveled before July. So that was really, really huge. I could suddenly walk down the street without being so afraid. So many things in my life changed then. And then, just like a month ago, I had another, I guess, revelation. Sort of that, no, I'm no longer afraid of being bad because I see the shared humanity in everyone. And even in my mom. I think my mom needs accountability and boundaries. And I can't have a relationship with her for my own safety and things like that. And I still think my mom, like, deserves respect and care from people that are able to provide that safely without being taken advantage of or harmed. But I think that, for me, has really changed how I view myself within all of it.Because I don't have to be afraid of being bad, because I don't really see anyone being bad or evil. I see us all as just messy, messy humans. And some people need more boundaries and things like that. And accountability is still important, but. So, yeah, so that's been a huge piece for me. But then I think I talked to someone else from my childhood via text, and they had said I was just a good kid in a bad situation. It's one thing for me to start seeing it in myself, but to know that, like, other people saw it in me as well, really just feels wild. Like I don't understand it, but has also started to shift, I think the way that I see that little kid or that teenager or that young adult that was really just trying to survive.So are your other parts, do they or is that just really the adult Joe that's processing it?That's a beautiful question. I think that there's a mix, for sure. Definitely some parts, I mean, I have, like, no, what I call co consciousness with. So some parts I don't think have any awareness of the here and now life and are very much still very, like, stuck in the past. So those parts definitely are not, I don't think, absorbing things. I think I try to, as best I can, do a lot of work on constantly reminding myself of these things or when there are triggers. And I want to hide in a closet or I want to hurt myself or whatever it is like that comes up in response to a different trigger. Trying to like constantly when I'm able to and have the co consciousness remind myself, or having written reminders or things that are like, things are different now, we're safe now, we aren't bad. Like we know these things. Like I have stuff posted in my room or on my phone or my computer or things like that that I think kind of definitely help, but I think obviously it definitely there's a lot of healing still to do for all parts.Jo and all of their parts have come a long way in the past several years, and while Joe's story involves a lot of trauma, as they've healed, they've gotten to embrace the person they are beyond all of that. They've finally gotten to come of age in a way that they were never allowed to before. Next time we look at who Joe is today, it seems like they put a lot of intentional effort to like have resources available to them now. Nobody should believe me is written, hosted, and produced by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our senior producer and editor is Mariah Gossett. Greta Stromquist is our associate producer, engineering by Robin Edgar and administrative support from Nola Carmouche. Music provided by Johnny Nicholson and Joel Shupack, with additional music and sounds from Soundsnap and thank you to cadance three for additional recording support.

I learned to while we've been doing this podcast is there were many reports made. There were different reports made from my first grade teacher. There were reports made, you know, by various people, which makes it all the.

More.

Upsetting, I guess, that nothing ever happened when it wasn't like it was just you that knew. Like there were so many people that were aware. I mean, in that confidential file was that anonymous note that somebody sent you.

People knew. Even though Doctor Wilson knew the likelihood of intervention was slim, she did her best to mitigate the harm.

When we're not sure about everything yet, a lot of times we're trying to corral the parent, say she's just a super, highly anxious and somewhat mentally ill parent. I'm trying to corral that person so that she's using the same providers that are aware of the situation, so that she can't get out of control with what she's doing to her child. And I'm trying to make sure that things are documented, and I'm trying myself. You know, ethically, I am not supposed to harm my patients. That's that first, do no harm. I do not want to harm my patients, even if it's just by affirming an untruth. Now, it used hand and would not let go. And I couldn't drive at that time, and so I would always find rides to get there, things like that. But I stayed by her side, and I bought her a Bible that I went through the entire Bible, and I don't even know what verses it was, but I highlighted all these verses, and I just kept telling her, if you come out of it, I'll move back home. We can win this together. We can get through this together. Me and you against the world. It always has been. And so when she did come out of it, I would go and I'd brush her hair, and I'd put headbands in her hair. And it was a really, like, pleasant time. It was one of the nicest times I would say that I'd ever really had with her. And then she went to rehab, and during that time, I still was like, I want to go home, and stuff like that.And I had more visitations with her. I wasn't supposed to see her outside of visitation times, but it looks like. I don't remember this, but it looks like those CPS records that I was seeing her outside of scheduled times, but I just wanted to be back with her. And then there was some times that I think reality would hit of, like, Joey, your mom's gonna drink again. And so then when that would, like, hit, I would be back to being like, oh, I wanna stay with my dad. And I was kind of like, yo yoing between this. But a lot of the records, it's so interesting to see, like, the therapist I was seeing and the social worker and my stepmom, like, all just, like, saying how I was really enmeshed with my mom.This pattern was a tactic of Donna's. She would reliably have a health crisis whenever she wanted to pull people back in. So this was not a coincidence that all of this happened the moment Jo was taken out of the home and was beginning to get some distance.Nobody ever told me like, hey, we think, like, you're codependent, or, like, we think this thing's going on. It was just in the notes that I could see what people really thought. But eventually, my mom started telling people that I was having back problems. And so then she kept saying, like, she needed to take me to all my doctor's appointments, which, in the records, in the CPS records, they told her, like, no, you don't have to take her to the CP or to the doctor's appointments. You can, but you don't have to. But. So she started taking me to these appointments for this back pain that I was having. And eventually, I mean, she convinced me I could barely walk, and so I was having all of this back pain, and they couldn't find anything wrong, and so they had me do pt. They gave me injections. Like, they tried all these different things, but I was convinced by this point that, like, I was really in pain. And my And that was life changing. That's when I started to be able to suddenly travel. I went to ten places after that, and I'd never really traveled before July. So that was really, really huge. I could suddenly walk down the street without being so afraid. So many things in my life changed then. And then, just like a month ago, I had another, I guess, revelation. Sort of that, no, I'm no longer afraid of being bad because I see the shared humanity in everyone. And even in my mom. I think my mom needs accountability and boundaries. And I can't have a relationship with her for my own safety and things like that. And I still think my mom, like, deserves respect and care from people that are able to provide that safely without being taken advantage of or harmed. But I think that, for me, has really changed how I view myself within all of it.Because I don't have to be afraid of being bad, because I don't really see anyone being bad or evil. I see us all as just messy, messy humans. And some people need more boundaries and things like that. And accountability is still important, but. So, yeah, so that's been a huge piece for me. But then I think I talked to someone else from my childhood via text, and they had said I was just a good kid in a bad situation. It's one thing for me to start seeing it in myself, but to know that, like, other people saw it in me as well, really just feels wild. Like I don't understand it, but has also started to shift, I think the way that I see that little kid or that teenager or that young adult that was really just trying to survive.So are your other parts, do they or is that just really the adult Joe that's processing it?That's a beautiful question. I think that there's a mix, for sure. Definitely some parts, I mean, I have, like, no, what I call co consciousness with. So some parts I don't think have any awareness of the here and now life and are very much still very, like, stuck in the past. So those parts definitely are not, I don't think, absorbing things. I think I try to, as best I can, do a lot of work on constantly reminding myself of these things or when there are triggers. And I want to hide in a closet or I want to hurt myself or whatever it is like that comes up in response to a different trigger. Trying to like constantly when I'm able to and have the co consciousness remind myself, or having written reminders or things that are like, things are different now, we're safe now, we aren't bad. Like we know these things. Like I have stuff posted in my room or on my phone or my computer or things like that that I think kind of definitely help, but I think obviously it definitely there's a lot of healing still to do for all parts.Jo and all of their parts have come a long way in the past several years, and while Joe's story involves a lot of trauma, as they've healed, they've gotten to embrace the person they are beyond all of that. They've finally gotten to come of age in a way that they were never allowed to before. Next time we look at who Joe is today, it seems like they put a lot of intentional effort to like have resources available to them now. Nobody should believe me is written, hosted, and produced by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our senior producer and editor is Mariah Gossett. Greta Stromquist is our associate producer, engineering by Robin Edgar and administrative support from Nola Carmouche. Music provided by Johnny Nicholson and Joel Shupack, with additional music and sounds from Soundsnap and thank you to cadance three for additional recording support.

hand and would not let go. And I couldn't drive at that time, and so I would always find rides to get there, things like that. But I stayed by her side, and I bought her a Bible that I went through the entire Bible, and I don't even know what verses it was, but I highlighted all these verses, and I just kept telling her, if you come out of it, I'll move back home. We can win this together. We can get through this together. Me and you against the world. It always has been. And so when she did come out of it, I would go and I'd brush her hair, and I'd put headbands in her hair. And it was a really, like, pleasant time. It was one of the nicest times I would say that I'd ever really had with her. And then she went to rehab, and during that time, I still was like, I want to go home, and stuff like that.

And I had more visitations with her. I wasn't supposed to see her outside of visitation times, but it looks like. I don't remember this, but it looks like those CPS records that I was seeing her outside of scheduled times, but I just wanted to be back with her. And then there was some times that I think reality would hit of, like, Joey, your mom's gonna drink again. And so then when that would, like, hit, I would be back to being like, oh, I wanna stay with my dad. And I was kind of like, yo yoing between this. But a lot of the records, it's so interesting to see, like, the therapist I was seeing and the social worker and my stepmom, like, all just, like, saying how I was really enmeshed with my mom.

This pattern was a tactic of Donna's. She would reliably have a health crisis whenever she wanted to pull people back in. So this was not a coincidence that all of this happened the moment Jo was taken out of the home and was beginning to get some distance.

Nobody ever told me like, hey, we think, like, you're codependent, or, like, we think this thing's going on. It was just in the notes that I could see what people really thought. But eventually, my mom started telling people that I was having back problems. And so then she kept saying, like, she needed to take me to all my doctor's appointments, which, in the records, in the CPS records, they told her, like, no, you don't have to take her to the CP or to the doctor's appointments. You can, but you don't have to. But. So she started taking me to these appointments for this back pain that I was having. And eventually, I mean, she convinced me I could barely walk, and so I was having all of this back pain, and they couldn't find anything wrong, and so they had me do pt. They gave me injections. Like, they tried all these different things, but I was convinced by this point that, like, I was really in pain. And my And that was life changing. That's when I started to be able to suddenly travel. I went to ten places after that, and I'd never really traveled before July. So that was really, really huge. I could suddenly walk down the street without being so afraid. So many things in my life changed then. And then, just like a month ago, I had another, I guess, revelation. Sort of that, no, I'm no longer afraid of being bad because I see the shared humanity in everyone. And even in my mom. I think my mom needs accountability and boundaries. And I can't have a relationship with her for my own safety and things like that. And I still think my mom, like, deserves respect and care from people that are able to provide that safely without being taken advantage of or harmed. But I think that, for me, has really changed how I view myself within all of it.Because I don't have to be afraid of being bad, because I don't really see anyone being bad or evil. I see us all as just messy, messy humans. And some people need more boundaries and things like that. And accountability is still important, but. So, yeah, so that's been a huge piece for me. But then I think I talked to someone else from my childhood via text, and they had said I was just a good kid in a bad situation. It's one thing for me to start seeing it in myself, but to know that, like, other people saw it in me as well, really just feels wild. Like I don't understand it, but has also started to shift, I think the way that I see that little kid or that teenager or that young adult that was really just trying to survive.So are your other parts, do they or is that just really the adult Joe that's processing it?That's a beautiful question. I think that there's a mix, for sure. Definitely some parts, I mean, I have, like, no, what I call co consciousness with. So some parts I don't think have any awareness of the here and now life and are very much still very, like, stuck in the past. So those parts definitely are not, I don't think, absorbing things. I think I try to, as best I can, do a lot of work on constantly reminding myself of these things or when there are triggers. And I want to hide in a closet or I want to hurt myself or whatever it is like that comes up in response to a different trigger. Trying to like constantly when I'm able to and have the co consciousness remind myself, or having written reminders or things that are like, things are different now, we're safe now, we aren't bad. Like we know these things. Like I have stuff posted in my room or on my phone or my computer or things like that that I think kind of definitely help, but I think obviously it definitely there's a lot of healing still to do for all parts.Jo and all of their parts have come a long way in the past several years, and while Joe's story involves a lot of trauma, as they've healed, they've gotten to embrace the person they are beyond all of that. They've finally gotten to come of age in a way that they were never allowed to before. Next time we look at who Joe is today, it seems like they put a lot of intentional effort to like have resources available to them now. Nobody should believe me is written, hosted, and produced by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our senior producer and editor is Mariah Gossett. Greta Stromquist is our associate producer, engineering by Robin Edgar and administrative support from Nola Carmouche. Music provided by Johnny Nicholson and Joel Shupack, with additional music and sounds from Soundsnap and thank you to cadance three for additional recording support.

And that was life changing. That's when I started to be able to suddenly travel. I went to ten places after that, and I'd never really traveled before July. So that was really, really huge. I could suddenly walk down the street without being so afraid. So many things in my life changed then. And then, just like a month ago, I had another, I guess, revelation. Sort of that, no, I'm no longer afraid of being bad because I see the shared humanity in everyone. And even in my mom. I think my mom needs accountability and boundaries. And I can't have a relationship with her for my own safety and things like that. And I still think my mom, like, deserves respect and care from people that are able to provide that safely without being taken advantage of or harmed. But I think that, for me, has really changed how I view myself within all of it.

Because I don't have to be afraid of being bad, because I don't really see anyone being bad or evil. I see us all as just messy, messy humans. And some people need more boundaries and things like that. And accountability is still important, but. So, yeah, so that's been a huge piece for me. But then I think I talked to someone else from my childhood via text, and they had said I was just a good kid in a bad situation. It's one thing for me to start seeing it in myself, but to know that, like, other people saw it in me as well, really just feels wild. Like I don't understand it, but has also started to shift, I think the way that I see that little kid or that teenager or that young adult that was really just trying to survive.

So are your other parts, do they or is that just really the adult Joe that's processing it?

That's a beautiful question. I think that there's a mix, for sure. Definitely some parts, I mean, I have, like, no, what I call co consciousness with. So some parts I don't think have any awareness of the here and now life and are very much still very, like, stuck in the past. So those parts definitely are not, I don't think, absorbing things. I think I try to, as best I can, do a lot of work on constantly reminding myself of these things or when there are triggers. And I want to hide in a closet or I want to hurt myself or whatever it is like that comes up in response to a different trigger. Trying to like constantly when I'm able to and have the co consciousness remind myself, or having written reminders or things that are like, things are different now, we're safe now, we aren't bad. Like we know these things. Like I have stuff posted in my room or on my phone or my computer or things like that that I think kind of definitely help, but I think obviously it definitely there's a lot of healing still to do for all parts.

Jo and all of their parts have come a long way in the past several years, and while Joe's story involves a lot of trauma, as they've healed, they've gotten to embrace the person they are beyond all of that. They've finally gotten to come of age in a way that they were never allowed to before. Next time we look at who Joe is today, it seems like they put a lot of intentional effort to like have resources available to them now. Nobody should believe me is written, hosted, and produced by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our senior producer and editor is Mariah Gossett. Greta Stromquist is our associate producer, engineering by Robin Edgar and administrative support from Nola Carmouche. Music provided by Johnny Nicholson and Joel Shupack, with additional music and sounds from Soundsnap and thank you to cadance three for additional recording support.