The therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation. Every Wednesday, listen to the therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care, and we'll see you there.

Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, a really good cry. We're gonna be talking with some of my best friends.

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Something that makes me crazy is when people say, well, I had this career before, but it was a waste. And that's where the perspective shift comes. That it's not a waste, that everything you've done has built you to where you are now. This is she pivots, the podcast where we explore the inspiring pivots women have made and dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them. Join me, Emily Tisch Sussman. Every Wednesday on she pivots. Listen to she pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A Ferrari Formula One driver. That's all I dreamt for. In all of the difficult moments, I always remember myself, how lucky I am to be in that position and living off what I love most, which is driving. I love what I do, but I want to be the best.

There's one man in the Formula One that has gotten a lot of attention. The championship contender, Charles Leclerc. If your father was here now, what do you think he'd say to you.

As soon as he passed away? I asked myself, what would he want me to do?

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Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty, the one, the only Jay Shetty hey, everyone. Welcome back to on Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I don't think there's anything more interesting in the world than human story. And what I love about this podcast is I get to dive into the minds of people that are often mysterious. We don't know so much about them. We may see them on the big screen, but here we're getting to learn about them behind the scenes. And today's guest is someone who I met just a few moments ago. I've been looking forward to this interview for a, a long, long time. I'm so glad to finally have him in the studio, and in the few moments I've spent with him, I can already tell that we're gonna have a great conversation. Please welcome to on Purpose Charles Leclerc. Charles Leclerc is one of the biggest names in global sport. Charles currently races in Formula One, driving for the legendary Ferrari since 2019, the youngest driver in history to be signed up by the team.

Charles features in the hit Netflix series Drive to survive and is loved by fans and sports community alike for his positive mindset and determined, straightforward approach. Charles, thank you for being here.

Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to finally meet you in person and to be here.

When I was researching, as I do for all my guests, I can listen to interviews. I'll read articles. You haven't done a lot of interviews. You don't talk so much about things publicly. I was wondering, why did you feel now was the right time and this was the right platform?

You've got something special in all the different interviews you do. I think you get out the best out of the people, and it's something very special. Of course, we do a lot of interviews, but they are mostly based on our racing career, of course, which I'm very happy to speak of and about all the time. But it's good also to get to know the person behind the steering wheel. In our case, we always have a helmet as well, so it's difficult to put a face on the name sometimes. And I think it's a great way to maybe show a bit of myself.

Yeah, definitely. And I want to thank you for that. I want to thank you for trusting me. And I want to say how grateful I am that you allowed us to have this conversation, because it's not always comfortable to take the helmet off and do this. And so I appreciate it, but let's. Let's dive straight in. I want to ask you, what would you have been if you weren't a race car driver?

Oh, good question. To start with, probably an architect. I love design in general. I wouldn't have been good enough to be an artist, but. But definitely an architect. I love architecture in general. It's another passion of mine. So, yeah, probably an architect.

Nice. And do you think that some of that passion has helped with being a Formula One racer, with the engineering, the understanding of the car, the design? Do you think that's transferred or not really?

Not really. Because obviously with my career, I had to stop quite early school to put myself into and having the best chances. In order to succeed in that sport, you need to very early on taking crucial decisions. And my parents were always very supportive of that, which obviously helped me as well. But. So I didn't do the study to get to being an architect or close of being an architect, but it's always something that interested me. So, no, it did not help my racing career, but it's definitely something that I would like to look at once my career is done, to maybe be able to do something there.

Don't speak too soon. We don't need you. You've got many, many years ahead of you, so we'll put that out far, far future. When you first had the experience of driving your first ever race car as a young boy, I believe you were like four years old.

Yes. Three and a half.

Three and a half. Walk us through what you remember. What was the first time you remember driving a car and you remember how you felt and what was that feeling like?

Well, first of all, I started by total coincidence. I was a kid, three and a half years old. I didn't want to go to school that day. And I said, my father, I was ill, and he believed me. By coincidence, he had to go and see his best friend, which owned a karting track. So I got in the car with him, went there, and then I was seeing the carting going around the track, and I was asking, can I try? But obviously, at three and a half years old, there are not really any carts made for a three and a half years old kid. But luckily for me, the owner, which was Jules Bianchi's, father, Philippe Bianchi, had a carting made for his son when he was three and a half. So there was everything ready. And I tried for the first time there. And I remember the first lap, they attached a rope to my carting and there was an adult driving in front of me just to make sure that I will be able to turn, etcetera. And after the first lap, we took off the rope and I went on until there was no fuel left.

So it was an amazing feeling straight away. I enjoyed the feeling of being in control of a carting at such a young age was something very, very amazing to experience. And I like. I love the adrenaline that it gave me. So it was a definitely a very special moment. I cannot remember it because I was too young, but at the same time, I've got images that my father has done of this day, which. Yeah, gives you back a bit, the feeling of the day.

Yeah. That's beautiful to be able to look back. Yeah. I was thinking, if you remember that from three and a half, that's impressive. I can't remember anything from when I was three and a half years old, but pictures do such a wonderful job of doing that. Walk us through the level of discipline and rigor and training that you've had to adopt. I feel like the Formula one season is, like, relentless. It's long, it's tiring, it's exhausting. When I look at the amount of races there are, when I've spoken to other drivers, it's just. It's all encompassing. Like, your whole life is absorbed into this.

Of course.

How have you allowed yourself. And we're getting to the end of the season right now as we're taping, how have you developed the stamina? Like, what does it take to see yourself through to the end when it's so grueling and so demanding?

It changes a lot in your career, because you start in karting, where there you are spending a lot of days on track, but it's always a track that is very close to your house. So even though you travel or you spend a lot of time in the car to get to the track, you are racing all day. You come back at home in the evening. It's still quite easy in a way, because it's all very, very close. Then you get to single seaters, Formula four, Formula three, Formula two, where you've got to travel a bit more all around Europe, I would say. But you've only got, like, 1213 races to do in a year, so it's still not too much. It takes a lot of time, of course, but it's still not too much. And then you get to Formula one and it's 24 races now all over the world. And in between the races, you also got to do a lot of events, sponsorship events, for the preparation of the races. I'm going in the simulator in Maranello. So lots of things are adding up, which makes it a season that is extremely tiring.

And especially when we get to the end of the season like it is now. It is more and more difficult, but then it's all about trying to plan the things better. I arrived the first year in Formula one, and to be honest, I was a mess. I arrived and I was doing the flight myself. I'll get to the track the day just before the practice will start, and I will be super tired. And especially the end of the season. Then you don't manage to stay at your hundred percent all the time. And then, of course, with experience, you learn. Now there are a whole team of people helping me in all of this because it's super important to be 100% at the end of the season. And now, yeah, you plan the things better in order to keep a good quality of life. Training, diet, sleeping is super important. The different time zones all over the world is very difficult to manage as well. But now I am up to speed with that.

Yeah, I love hearing that. I remember I've interviewed different athletes in different sports, and I remember speaking to one athlete who at the time was at the cusp of, I think, potentially going to one day become one of the. One of the best. And I remember asking him, like, what his routine was and how he prepared and he didn't have one and it didn't get better. Like, it didn't improve from there. And then you see that it's hard to sustain a career like that. Walk us through. Because I think people are fascinated, because I think anyone who's not a fan of f one or hasn't watched drive to survive as we were talking about earlier, or doesn't understand it, they don't recognize how physically demanding it is to sit in a car. I'll just give an example to everyone. I went go karting, like, two weeks ago, and I was nowhere near going as fast as you go, obviously, in an electric go kart. And I came back with, like, the ribs. Yeah. Completely bruised and like. And that's just from, like, a little kids go karting thing. It's so demanding in so many ways.

Walk us through, first of all, walk us through your, like your diet, your sleep. What, what is that routine like for you personally? What do you eat? What, what do you need to build in terms of working out, etcetera, and then talk to me about what actually happens during a race to you, like what's going through your body and mind.

The sleep, for me, is the number one priority. It is so incredibly important is where obviously, you rest and recover all the energy in the body that you need, and it's something super important. So on that I'm super strict. I'm a good sleeper. I probably sleep around 1011 hours a night. So really, really a long, long, long time.

Do you have any tricks for that or you're just a good sleeper?

No, I'm a good sleeper. The only big problem I have is that I don't sleep in planes. For some reason. I struggle to sleep in planes, which I spend a lot of time. So I need to take the planes by day so I can stay awake and all of these kind of things. But again, that is part of planning diet. I've got a dietitian in Milan that is following me and sending me all the diet requirements. I used to have something very repetitive, which then you get bored of. Now it's a lot more diverse, so it's very difficult to get into the details of what I take. But it's more carbohydrates, especially once raised day, are coming. Our weight fluctuates a lot throughout a week of racing because you get the Friday before train, before the practice, driving practice, and you are quite heavy because there you ate a lot of carbohydrates. That takes the water. You drink a lot of water. You need to be well hydrated. But then we go through extreme heat inside the cockpit, so you lose so much water. And in some races you can lose up to three and a half, four kilos of water, which is very difficult then in the one or two days after to recover from that.

Yeah, this is super important. The hydrotation plan and the dietitian plan, in order to be fully on it throughout the weekend. And then physically, it is a very strange sport in a way, because there are muscles that, no, the sports really use, which especially the neck, by example. The neck is probably the hardest about to train properly because it's full of little muscles that you don't use. And that is very difficult to reproduce in a gym. So driving is basically the only training you can get for that, as much as you are trying with elastics to try and reproduce that. But it's very difficult whenever we get to the first day of practice in February, after the winter break, you speak to all drivers, and at the end of the first day, they are all so tired, so tired. Just because the neck is a very difficult one to use, but to train. But then lots of cardio training. It's super important. And another thing that is also difficult to train is the breathing techniques, because with the g forces, sometimes it's very difficult to breathe normally. So we do a lot of apnea in the corners.

But this is something that you get used years after years driving Formula one cars.

Yeah. Wow. No, really great. Really great breakdown there. Because I think you never think about. For most people, you never think about the neck, you're never thinking about, obviously, the breath, the losing of weight is incredible. You've talked about before that in your carting days, your mental health, or you're like, your resilience, your mindset was a lot weaker. How did you experience that? What did that look like back in the day? What do you mean by your mindset was weaker then?

I was extremely harsh on myself, which I think now is a strength, because I'm super honest with myself and I don't like to be nice to myself. Whenever I do a mistake, I'm very harsh and I'm very honest with myself. But at the same time, I think the reaction from that is extremely important. The way you react to mistakes you've done inside the car. This is where you manage to transform a mistake into something positive from learning from it. And when I was younger, I didn't have the right reaction. I will put myself so much down. It will also hurt my self confidence. Now it's very different. I know that I got to a certain level because I worked hard, of course, because there's also a part of talent that you have when you are young. It's super important to keep the self confidence super high in those difficult moments. Otherwise you can lose a little bit the way, the direction in which you need to work, and it can make things a bit more complicated. So that's where I was struggling when I was. When I was younger.

Hey, everyone, it's Jay here. My wife and I have had so much fun creating our own sparkling tea. Junie, and I've got big news for you. It's at Target and we'd love your support. If you can go out, grab a joonie, you'll be adding adaptogens and nootropics into your life with mood boosting properties aimed at promoting a balanced and happy mind through our commitment to our wellness journey and striving to fuel our bodies with the healthiest ingredients. It's been our purpose to make healthy choices accessible for all, which is why Juni is now on shelves at Target. So head to our store locator@drinkjuny.com and find Junie at a target near you. Yeah, I love that you brought that out because I feel like everyone can relate to that. Like, whether you drive cars or you don't, everyone can relate to the idea that we can be harsh on ourselves, we can be heavy on ourselves. We can be self critical and judgmental. How do you. Or how did you learn to, like, let's say you've just done the first lap and you made a ton of mistakes, or you feel like you're behind? I can imagine that it's so easy for the next two laps to just be lost in criticizing yourself and the thought in your head just being should have taken that better, should have done this, should have done that.

How did you grow to have a more positive relationship with that honesty and that self criticism as opposed to that thought repeating in your head? Has that happened before? Have you ever felt that where you criticizing yourself during a race or there's no time for that?

Actually, no. I think. I think adrenaline helps us in our sport to not think too much because you haven't got the time to think. You go from one corner to the other. If you're already thinking about your last corner, you're going to do a mistake at the next corner. So you've got to mentally reset at every corners. And if you did a mistake, you need to reset for the next corner, which is in 1 second. So it's super quick. But I think adrenaline helps you. I think where I struggle more is when you finish a race on multiple laps and you are looking back at it and you're like, okay, this, this. I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have done that mistake. I should have known that. I should have prepared for that. And then I was putting myself down, and that had a, a much longer effect as well, because then for, you need to wait for the next race in order to move on. And that's in one or two weeks time. And for one or two weeks, you're like, okay, I just can't wait to be back in the karting to show what I can do.

But in those last two weeks, you need to accept, obviously, the view of others, which was also something that was hurting me back in the past. And it's just not, not good for learning from your mistakes.

Are you excited for the next race to prove yourself? That's what it sounds like. Like there's that feeling of adrenaline, of like, okay, I can't wait to be back on the track. Have you ever had a moment where you're like, I don't want to go back on the track because I'm scared, or I'm fearing losing or failure, or.

Never. Never. Because I love so much what I do. And in every tough times, I think I always like to remember myself when everything started, when I was three and a half, but I don't remember that time. So around seven or eight years old, the way I looked up to Formula One, the way I dreamt of being in a position I am today, a Ferrari Formula One driver. That's all I dreamt for. I still want to win a world championship, which is another dream of mine, and I'm working for that. But in all of the difficult moments, I always remember myself how lucky I am to be in that position and living off what I love most, which is driving. So that remind me how much I love the sport that I'm doing and how much I love what I do, no matter the situation I'm in.

Yeah, that's a beautiful mindset to have. And how have you kept that gratitude? Like, I'm listening to you right now and I just feel. You sound so grateful and so happy to be here. It's not an egotistic arrogance, but it's a sense of, like, joy and excitement. Like, you still have that freshness with it even though you've done it for 20 years now.

Yeah.

Like, how have you kept that freshness? Like, what is it that makes you fall back in love with it because you're so young, but at the same time, you've done it for so long.

Exactly, yeah. It's been 23 years that I'm in the sport now, so a very, very long time. But I don't know, just the adrenaline that it gives me, being lucky enough to work with so many incredibly talented people, because all the engineers, all the mechanics, all the people around the team are people that have focused their own life in order to arrive to the position they are in now. And to be able to work with so many incredible people is a big chance. So whenever I work with them, it's always super interesting. You learn every day in this sport because it's a very complex sport. There's the driving part, of course, but then there's all the technical parts of the cars and. Yeah, just being able to stay with those people speak with those super interesting people and also do the driving, which is what I love the most, which is, yeah, whenever I put the helmet on, I've got a smile on my face, because the. The adrenaline that I get when I get on the throttle, getting out the pits is something super special. So, yeah, I love what I do.

Yeah. It sounds like you're so fearless on the track and you've built that mindset as time has gone on. What about off the track? Is there anything that scares you? Any fears that exist? Does that fearlessness on the track help you off the track? Or is it just two different worlds and two different things?

No. No, trust me, I'm scared of different things. Snakes. I hate. I hate snakes. I tried bungee jumping and I couldn't jump.

You didn't do it?

No, but it's weird because at the same time, I did parachute skydiving, and I loved it. But. But, yeah, you know, Benji jumping, I couldn't jump. So I was super scared at the same time. As you said, whenever I'm in a race car, there's not 1% of me that is. That is scared. Just because being in control helps a lot, I think. And, you know, I'm never scared.

There's naturally those external things that scare you as well. And I wonder, you know, you've been through. When I was. When I was looking back at your journey and listening, you've been through so much loss in your journey, and I think for you to continue to show up in the way you are right now with love and gratitude and joy, that takes even more courage than sitting in a car and driving at that speed, because it's almost sometimes like emotional. Emotional transformation is sometimes harder than physical and minds mental transformation. Like, walk us through the losses that you've endured and how you've been able to kind of channel that grief into growth.

I think it's made me grow faster. I lost my father in 2017, so I was obviously very young. And at this time of your career or your life, you need that person that helps you grow as a man and also as a driver, because he was basically my best mentor. He was also a driver himself back in the day. So obviously he was helping me with all his experience throughout the years that he's learned into racing. And to lose him at that age made me an adult much, much faster, because you get to manage your own things much earlier, before that, I was just a kid. He will just bring me to the races. I will do what I love the most, which is driving then flights, organization, planning, that was all on my father and he was doing that perfectly. And he sacrificed a lot for me to get here. But then at one point, from one day to the other, there's not your father anymore. And you need to take all of these things in hands. I've got my younger brother, also my older brother, he's ten years older than me, so he was already an adult in a way.

But my younger brother was three years younger than me. I had to take care of my mother as well. So all of these things, it's not something that comes natural when you are 17 or 18 years old. Some time to get used to it. But I think we all got much closer in the family after that. It was a difficult moment as well to lose my father because I think I was in the age of around 14 to 19, where you are always clashing a little bit with your parents after that. I think it puts us all together much, much closer than before.

Yeah. What was it like racing that year? Like, you know, having to show up again now where you don't have your mentor and you don't have the person who believes in you and loves you and trains you. Like, what was that like? Because I think that that is, that's so brave and it requires an inner strength. Like, what was that for you? What was it like?

I don't know. It was on the, on the Tuesday of Baku, I had a Formula two race. I was in Formula two, not yet in Formula one, and he passed away, I think, on the Tuesday, and I had the flight on the Wednesday to get to the race. As soon as he passed away, I asked myself, what would he want me to do? And I had no doubt. I mean, there was only one answer. He was living for racing. He loved so much racing and he loved seeing me racing and especially when I won. So I knew I had to go there and do absolutely everything to try and win the race. And that gave me an extra motivation as well to make him proud from up there. So it was super important for me to do that.

What was his reaction when you won and what was his reaction when you didn't win?

I think the honesty to myself always came from my father. He was always super honest with myself, with me. He was obviously harsh whenever things weren't going the way he wanted or whenever he thought that there was a mistake that was to be made at that time of my career, but at the same time incredibly happy whenever I won. You could really see how much it meant to him. So he was coming to every races. Absolutely every races. But I will say he was a bit of a different father on races, because the father tends to be always with the kids on races and always be there and pushing them. And he was always doing a step back on that, trying to let me grow in my own environments, with my engineers, with my mechanics, and get there at the end of the weekend and then have the discussion at the end of the weekend. Okay. I saw that this. You should have done better, but this was amazing. And he was always super supportive and also in difficult moments. I think that's all you need sometimes. The good person, a person that is obviously close to you, that only wants good from you, for you, and that tells you supportive words.

And I knew that this was a huge help that then I lost. When I lost my father, obviously, there was still my mom, but my mom doesn't have the technical knowledge that my father had on racing. But it's super important to have close people that then also along your career, whatever level you are at, can tell you the right things at the right moment for you. And, yeah, this was super important to me.

Yeah, he sounds like an amazing man. He sounds like such a wonderful, wonderful mentor to have in life. And is there any words of advice that he said to you, or something he shared with you that you feel you always kind of carry with you, whether it's on race day or in life? Is there something that he left you that you feel you always turn towards.

To always stay humble and grateful? I think these are the two words that he always said. Because even when I was six or seven years old, I've had years where. Years that were extremely good for me. At that age where I used maybe doing 24 races and I would win 18 of the 24 races. And at that age, you get carried away like, I'm the best. And this is. Yeah, this is for me. I'll get to Formula one. And he was always there. Charles, you're only six years old. Formula one is a very long way. So you need to keep working, stay humble. It was always in a funny way that I was doing that. I've never been arrogant, in a way, because I think it's a trait of our family. We are all like this. But, yeah, I think these are the two words that I always keep and remind me of it. And especially the grateful part.

Yeah. How do you stay humble when, like you said, you're racing the dream, you're driving Ferrari, you know, life's great. Like, things are awesome, opportunities are everywhere. Like how. And I can feel it from you, by the way. I believe it. And, and anyone who's listening or watching, I'm sure you can feel it. I can sense it just from, from sitting with you that, that it's true. How have you, how have you remained that way and how do you train yourself to remain that way? Obviously comes naturally in your family, which is beautiful, but, but is there a practice of tampering with your ego in a way that's helped you?

Not really. Yeah, not really, no. No. The, the, I mean, to be humble, I think, yeah, I've never really worked for, for that. It's just worse that my father told me. And I always remind myself, because, as I said, sometimes you can have four really, really good races and you feel like, okay, I found the rhythm. And it's very easy in those very, very good moments to maybe work a little bit less than in the very difficult moments. And this is maybe where sometimes I remind myself, Charles, yes, you are in a very good moment of your career, but that you still need to work as hard as in a very difficult moment, because all the people that are now struggling are going to work and going to catch up at one point. So you need to keep working as hard as possible. Where I have to do a bit, no, not a bit more work, but where I have to think a bit more. It's in the difficult moment to be still grateful to be in the position that I am, because when you leave the moment and that you struggle with a race or two, three races in a row, lots of critics are coming to you.

Obviously, it's a sport that is quite getting bigger and bigger, especially in the us now. It's getting huge in Europe. It's always been huge, but there's a lot of pressure when you are a Ferrari driver as well, even more so because it means a lot to people all around the world, and you need to manage those pressures in the difficult moments. And it might be difficult also to manage the opinion of others in those very difficult moments, and it might hurt you personally as well. That's where I always try and work on remembering how grateful I am and how lucky I am to be in that position.

Yeah, definitely. Was there a criticism or that kind of feedback that, like, hurt you the most? Where you're like, oh, that was hard to deal with. That was difficult. What would that be if there was one?

The critics that hurts me the most are the ones that doesn't define me as a person. I think in the world we are living now with social media, everybody can give their opinions super easily. And also people that don't know you personally. Yeah, I remember, like, two or three years ago, someone would say, oh, look how arrogant he is. And these are critics. That really hurts me because I know I'm not like this, and it's difficult to accept them when you are not really like that. And I remember that hurting me personally. Then you always get critics on your driving or if you do a mistake in a race or whatsoever. But this is part of the sport. This used to hurt me back, especially the first year in Formula one, because you get from a Formula two driver where there are no media, nobody talks about you. You do a mistake, and only my mom or my dad will say, okay, Charles, you did a mistake. But it's not good where you get to Formula one, and then you are in the spotlight of absolutely everything. You do a mistake. And hundreds or thousands of people are speaking about it on social media, which it takes a bit of time to get used to.

I remember the first year in Formula one, I got into Formula when I was watching absolutely everything that people will say about me because it was new for me. And then you get to learn to just make sure that you only value what people you love most think about me, and that is only what matters to me.

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is an NAACP and Webby award winning podcast dedicated to all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help black women decipher how their past inform who they are today and use that information to decide who they want to be moving forward. We chat about things like how to establish routines that center self care, what burnout looks and feels like, and defining what aspects of our lives are making us happy and what parts are holding us back. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation. Every Wednesday, listen to the therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care, and we'll see you there.

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Yeah, and that's, and that's hard to do. Like you said, like, you go from being in Formula two, when no one's talking about you, to Formula one, where everyone's talking about you. And I think people in the world have that experience as well, that we're now living at a time where everyone can comment, everyone can share, everyone can say something. I know. I struggle to deal with it as well. Like, I find it really difficult. And I love what you said, that it's always when it's about your character that it hurts more if someone says, like, oh, you didn't get that technical thing right. Whatever, I can live with that. But it's really hard when it's about you as a human.

Yeah.

In your truth, when you're like, oh, no, no, I'm not like that. Like, I wish I've said this before. I wish that I, if everyone who felt that way about me, I wish I could meet them personally.

Exactly.

And hold their hands and just talk to them for a second.

Yeah.

And say, look, this is who I truly am. And I'm so sorry that somehow you felt that I was that way. And whatever it was, I'm sorry that it made you feel that way, but I promise you this is who I truly am.

But you. Exactly that. Exactly that. No, no, you can't. Too many people. I always try also to use the social media in order to reflect my true self. Then if someone doesn't like my true self, then it's like this. I won't be liked by everybody else, by everybody in the world. This is normal. So I just need to be my true self. But as you said, it's just difficult when someone understand a trait of your personality wrong and then criticize it and you're like, that's, that's not me. And I wish I could prove you, but it's. It's life.

Yeah, definitely. You were saying earlier that, you know fear and what you're scared of. And I've read before that you've said that you're scared of when your brother's driving like that. That is something that you get scared about. So you're not scared when you're driving and you're in control, but when you're not in control, walk me through what goes through your mind. Like what is that? What is that fear? What's that experience?

Because as much as I am not scared for me at all, I'm still completely aware that it is such an incredibly dangerous sport. As much as there's been so much safety improvements over the years, it is and will always be a dangerous sport because we go at crazy speeds and anything can happen. Whenever I'm in control and I'm racing, not one part of me thinks about the potential risk I'm occurring doing that. However, when I see someone I love a lot doing exactly the same thing, then you see the things very differently. Of course I'm always looking at the performance, but for me, what is the most important thing of all is his security, him making it safe to the end of the race and then whatever else comes secondary. It's not as enjoyable to watch racing when my brother is racing because it's just super scary and I get super, super stressed.

What's the fastest you've ever been? And when you've watched your brother, what's, what's the fastest he's ever been? Where you've been worried or was there a race where you felt like that was the one?

Every, every race is.

Every single one. It doesn't matter.

Every race is a torture.

So do you even watch?

No, I do.

You do. You still watch because of the performance and you want to help him out.

But it's difficult because also we are on the same race weekends. And most of the times I've got meetings preparing my race at the same time of his race.

Right.

And so I need to look at the race, but at the same time be focused on my meeting. And this is the hardest task ever. But faster speeds, probably 370 kph, which is around 230. Think something like this. I don't think that is the impressive part of Formula one. The straight line speed is fast, but you don't really feel it in a car. Like a Formula one car. It's mostly the braking. The speed in the corners is something crazy and very difficult to. To put into words and to make it understand in a way.

No, I know. I. I only know a harder. Is just from playing the video game. Yeah, like that. That's already. You try play f one video games. Like it is one of the hardest things.

Do you play on the controller? Do you have a simulator?

I'm the controller. I haven't got the wheel together. Yeah, even that. You just recognize just how challenging it is. Like, it's when. When you're training, did you ever. Have you seen. Obviously, I'm sure you've seen, but when you're training, I'm sure there's accidents. I'm sure you see things that are. That are painful to watch either with yourself or with others you love. Like, how is that like when you're training? Because obviously in f one, they've made it safer and everything. But training is like training, right? It's not the same standards.

Well, first of all, it's a very different sport to others. Football or whatever other sports in the world. You can train as much as you want in Formula one. You can't. I only have three days in the Formula one car over the year. And then it's the first race. That is the only practice I get is three days in the new car. You need to understand what's the behavior of the car.

It's not long at all.

That is nothing. That is nothing. And then all the rest is done virtually. So you race, you practice on simulators without the controller, with the wheel this time, but you practice on simulators in order to get ready for the real thing. And then you've got three days in order to get up to speed, to understand tons of information from the car. That is mostly on the engineers to do that. And then you need to be ready at the first qualifying session a week later. This is very, very, very difficult. Then, as you were saying, we all know it's a dangerous sport. I've unfortunately lost my sporting godfather in 2014, Jules Bianchi, who was an incredible driver, and he had a fatal crash in Japan and lost his life there. And also another friend, Antoine, in 2019 in Belgium. And these are very, very difficult moments because then you are racing on this exact same track. You are going through the exact same corner where a person that you were close with lost his life. This is the two moments in my entire career where you have a bit of negative thoughts going into that corner, and you need to battle a bit through them in order to think about something else and get on with it as much as it's difficult, because a part of me was like, I cannot get on with it.

Like nothing happened. But at the same time, you've got to do that at least as soon as you get inside the car, until you get out of the car, you need to do that. You need to focus fully on driving. Otherwise you are never able to extract the maximum out of the car.

Yeah. That balance between acceptance, we often think like it's acceptance or action, and actually you're saying it's both together. There's an acceptance of the truth of what happened, and then at the same time, you have to drive. And it's not either or. It's not like, okay, I'm going to get over this, and then we're going to drive, because that could take forever.

Yeah.

And you can't just drive and ignore it because it will come up. And I remember. I mean, I remember one of my favorite movies is Rush with Niki Lauda and James Hunt. Like, that's probably one of my favorite movies. And it's. You see so much of the world of, like, the ego, the fame, the success, the focus, the amount of effort, the competition. Like, you see the dangerous side of it. Like, there's. It's so well done, the movie. I've always been a fan. I wonder whether you're a fan of that movie or whether you're like, ah, it's not like that at all.

No, I love it. I love it. I mean, I think it's a really good representation of what the sport was back then.

Yes, yes, yes. Not now. Yeah.

And it was amazing to see how it was back then and how it is now and how much everything has changed. And I also think that as much as today, when I say that I'm getting into the car and there's not one part of me that think about the danger, I really believe that 30, 40 years ago, that was completely different for the drivers back then, and they probably I think it was the driver that was willing to get the closest to death that was the fastest, because they were so brave, the cars. I've driven all cars now, and there was no safety. Like the. Where they had the legs. It's just something like this off metal. And if you. If you take. If you take a wall, that's. That's it. And obviously, I'm sure they had that in mind somewhere, which now everything is so much safer that you don't. You don't think about it anymore. So I think the sport has evolved like crazy since then. But it's a great movie.

Yeah, no, and I love hearing that. Like, it's so interesting. Obviously, we know it's changed, but to hear about how much the cars have changed, how much safer they are, like, the level of risk that a driver was taking back then, is insane. It's unfathomable to even recognize, like you're saying, it's interesting for someone from the outside to even look at that. What was your favorite car that you've gone back and driven? Is there like a favorite era or like a favorite year that you've seen or exposed to? And why. Why is it special?

I've actually driven the Niki Lauda car. That was very, very special. Unfortunately, I had a problem on the car while driving on the brakes, which was pretty scary. But I really enjoyed driving that car. But it was completely different. I think also in terms of driving, it was super different. You had the gearbox, you had the shifter, so you had to press the clutch every time you will pass the gears, like in a normal car today. But now in a Formula One car, everything is electronic, so you pass the gears, you only press a button. You don't have to press the clutch, you don't have to press anything. And you, your brain can focus on many, many other things. We've got hundred thousands of things going on, on the steering wheel that we need to touch while driving. But you haven't got to think about the gears anymore. Back then, I think the gears was a super important part of driving. But I really enjoyed driving these lauda, all cars. This was very special.

It's amazing. I can imagine the amount of attention this takes you. Like we said, you're on the road for a long time, you're doing so many races a year. You've got so many things happening in front of you while you're on the race. It's natural to experience burnout. Like it's natural to become exhausted. Do you find that you're. What do you do as recovery, like you were saying, like, and you just came from the Brazil race, like just now. Like what, a couple of days ago? Yeah, two days ago. Like, what did you have to do in those two days to just feel normal again, if normal is even a reality?

I love music. I play piano and I've seen videos of it.

You're pretty good. Yeah.

Kind of good enough to, to enjoy it and to disconnect from everything. And for me, piano and music in general is an amazing way of disconnecting myself from the pressure of Formula one. From Formula one as a whole.

You don't sing, though?

I don't, no, no. Better. I don't think just, just playing the piano, but yeah, playing the piano is definitely one of the things I love most, disconnect and recharge my batteries.

And has that been a part of your life for a long, long time, through the whole journey?

Actually, not at all. I started during COVID lots of time at home. I had a simulator, so I was driving a lot, virtually twitch every day, but. Yeah, with twitch, actually. But after two weeks, two weeks and a half, doing that all day was getting quite tiring. So I bought a piano. I started then and I loved it.

Wow. Yeah. And what is it that, like, how do you, how have you taught you, have you simply taught yourself to play, like, is that how it's worked or.

Yes, I always. When we were younger, my younger brother used to have a piano, so I sometimes was playing on it, but not, I never took like courses or whatsoever. And I thought Covid was a great time to try and learn it a bit more, pushing a bit more and trying to understand a bit more how everything works. So I took some lessons, like five or six, but very quickly I realized that I wasn't done for lessons, so I just taught myself the piano and tried to come up with melodies and music that I enjoyed. Yeah, sometimes I thought I would be on the piano since an hour and I will look the time and it will be four or 5 hours past. I just really, really liked it.

Yeah. It's nice to hear that you've had. And I guess Covid was a surprising time where people had a bit more time or to take up hobbies and try new things. But I've always found that especially Formula one, like, it's so grueling. There's so much attention required, there's so much focus required. How has your. And we were just talking about it when you, when you came in today, like, you don't have that much time for a personal life. You've got the events in between, you've got, like, how have you made sense of that? What does your personal life look like when you do have time? How much time do you get a year? Actually, let's start there. Like, how much time do you get a year where you actually got time for your family, your friends and yourself?

I will say maybe 40 days.

40 days?

Yeah, like 30, 40 days a year. We've got two weeks, two weeks and a half in August, and then two weeks, two weeks and a half in December. So for Christmas and everything. But then also with Formula one, the good thing is that we travel all over the world. But years after years, you also go to always the same places, which then you meet new people in this city, and then you've got group of friends a little bit everywhere around the world, which is also super nice. So whenever I go to Brazil here in Los Angeles, Miami, I've got my group of friends there. So it's always great to come back to a race. Obviously you want to drive as much as possible and be in the car again as soon as possible, but at the same time you've got your friends there. So it's not like my private life is suffering a lot from it. My mom also now can follow me on races. I think it's more when I was a kid that it was a bit more difficult in a way that you are sometimes you are leaving school for two or three weeks for different races and there you don't spend as much time with your home friends.

I used to not speak Italian and English when I was a kid. So you get to the karting tracks and you cannot really speak with anybody. So that is a bit more the difficult part. But at the same time, I was so incredibly happy to go to the racetrack to drive karting. That was making it all up for it.

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Yeah. Are there any other athletes or any other sports? Or even musicians? Maybe even because of or architects engineers that you've kind of, like, looked to and been inspired by and pulled from? Have you studied people that you find fascinating, or that kind of become your guidance and mentors, even if you don't know them personally? Or. Or has it? Or is it very much a personal love and a personal inspiration thing?

I really try to be the best version of myself. Having said that, there was one driver that, for me, was the best of all time, was Ertan Senna. I've never had the chance because I'm too young to have witnessed him in real life. But obviously, through movies, some books, I could learn more about his person and what he's done in Formula One. And he's always been a person that I've admired. And he was also the idol of my father, so I think that played a part into it as well.

What was it specifically about, the way he raced? From what you've seen in footage and books, what was it about him?

Just the precision that he had at that time. It was also in the time where we were mentioning before, in a much more dangerous time of Formula One. Sadly, he lost his life on the track. But he was so precise. And he was extremely special in Monaco. He was special everywhere but in Monaco, even more so. And being in Monaco, watching the videos of his onboard camera, of his qualifying laps around Monaco, was. It's just crazy.

Have any simulators ever done this where you could race alongside legendary races? Does that exist? Like, have you, like, if you wanted to race him?

Maybe. Maybe like games?

Yeah.

But not like proper simulators. No. No. Our simulator is crazy.

Yeah.

It's in a room that is maybe this, five or six times bigger than this one. And it's like a huge simulator moving everywhere to try and reproduce the G forces. So now they are really pushed. But you're only racing on your own, so you cannot reproduce a race or whatsoever. You're just doing laps on your own.

That simulator, where is that station?

Like, where do you go in Maranello?

Okay.

Yeah.

And that's that simulator you're in all year round. The three days are in the real car.

Yes. So you do three days in the real car, and then everything else is on the simulator.

Walk us through what that simulator feels like. What you described it briefly there. But, like, walk us through. Like, how. What does it give you and what does it not give you?

So what it gives you extremely well is that the engineers have managed to reproduce extremely close to the real car. The feeling that you get in the real car. The thing that it doesn't give you and will, I think, never ever give you, is obviously the adrenaline first, because, you know, you're on a simulator, you crash, you press the restart button and you go again, which in reality is a bit more difficult. And also the G forces, because we've got a huge platform which reproduces the G forces forces, but you're only going from right to left, and then it stops. In a Formula one car, when you turn right, then the G forces are always there until you stop turning right, which makes a big difference, because, to be precise, on a platform that is quite stable is one thing. To be precise, in a Formula One car, with all the vibrations, with all the g forces that your body go through, is a complete other. So it makes things a bit more complicated.

It's fascinating to even think that you have to do something for work that you don't actually get to do. And it's phenomenal how smart and astute and intense you have to be in order to make it all come together. I wanted to ask you. I was thinking about this before, and I'm bringing it back, because I wanted to ask you, if your father was here now, and he was getting to watch you now, what do you think he'd say to you? How do you think he'd respond to the journey that you're on?

I think he will be extremely proud because he passed away a year before I got into Formula One. It was very difficult, because I unfortunately did not. I hadn't signed my Formula One contract, which was the ultimate goal for our family. I mean, Formula One is really where you want to get. Once you start a racing career, that's where you want to be one day. But I had lied to him two days before he passed away. And I told him, listen, I signed my Formula One contract. The year was going well. I was quite confident that this will happen. But I also knew it was a matter of days before he will pass away. And I remember that, that night that I said it to my mom. And my mom was pretty angry with me, telling me, you shouldn't lie to your father. And that stayed in me for months. And luckily, I signed my contract a month later, he wasn't here anymore. And then I found much more peace within myself, because I told myself, okay, I didn't lie my father and I told him the truth. I anticipated things, but everything is okay.

And that was a really good moment, because, as I said, Formula One is really the goal for every driver. And it was difficult to accept that he will go away without knowing what was the rest. But I think he will be really proud as much as on track at the moment. Year, not going too much into the specific, but it's not the best year ever. We are struggling a little bit with our car performance, but, yeah, I'm still driving for Ferrari and informal one, so he will be happy.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. You shared that with Cristiano Ronaldo. Has a similar story with his father. Like, his father never really got to see him become Cristiano Ronaldo. And the idea of, like, how hard it is when, like, you know, you have a father who believes in you and loves you and wants you to become phenomenal and I don't. I can't remember the exact year they lost his father, but his father never got to see him reach the heights that he did. But of course, it's beautiful to hear that. I'm so glad you could share it with him. That's such a special. I'm so glad you got to tell him that. And I'm so glad it became true.

Me too. I think I will have. I will have lived so badly with. With a lie like this for the rest of my life. So I'm. I'm happy. I did everything for it to happen. It happened. And he also sacrificed a lot for me. I never liked to say that I sacrificed anything in my life, because I didn't. I just did everything that I wanted to do, which was racing as much as. Yes, I wasn't a lot of time at home when I was a kid, but I was spending my time on track, which was what I love doing the most. He, on the other hand, sacrificed a lot because motorsport is unfortunately a very expensive sport. He had to do, saving for me to be able to do what I loved most, which was driving. And I was aware of that. And also the fact that obviously my mom, he couldn't see my mom that much because he was always with me on races. So I think he made many more sacrifices than I did because for me, it was always pure pleasure.

Is driving a lonely sport? I imagine that everyone's quite competitive. Like, I can't imagine drivers being friends and hanging out afterwards because. I don't know. I mean, you tell me, you tell me.

Actually, I've got a really good friend on the grid, Pierre Gasly. We grew up together. We started in karting. We did our first race together in 2005. So we were. Yeah, like seven, eight years old. We did the french championship together and we became super good friends. Our family are super close as well, so we used to go in on holidays together. And then we found ourselves in Formula one now, so. But trust me, as soon as I close the visa and I'm with a helmet, he's nobody anymore. And that's the same for him. And we know that. But whenever we are outside the car, we have a really, really strong friendship. So you can have friends, but it's very difficult to create friendships if you didn't know that person before getting into Formula one. Because it's such a competitive world. Everybody wants to have the upper hand. Everybody wants to do everything in his own benefit, because at the end, we want to win. We want to be the best on track. So there's a lot of respect. But we are not giving anything away to the others. And as much as I'm friends with Pierre, I'm not giving him any advices or whatsoever.

I just want to beat him as much as I want to beat everybody else on track. But lonely sport, I don't think it is, because at the end, it's a team sport. The only thing is that the team is a bit in the. Is working a bit in the shadow. Because when you watch Formula one, you see mostly the driver driving the car, but behind that, the mechanics are making sure that they mount everything perfectly. The engineers are working in trying to optimize the car in the best possible way. Then there's a lot of strategy during the race. So there are many, many, many people in the background speaking and connected to me through the radio, so I need to speak with the guys in the pits while I'm driving. And it's a big part of racing.

What are your dreams and visions of wanting to be one of the best and winning a world championship? What would that mean to you? How important is that? What does that mean to you? What would it feel like? What fuels you and drives you to.

Go in that direction just to be the number one? Just the feeling of the victory, obviously. I mean, I won few races in Formula one, and the feeling that you get once you get that win is incredible, because you know you've done the best on track, but it depends on so many other people doing the right thing, is that whenever you do it, it's such an incredible joy, not only for you, but for more than 1500 people that are back at the factory in Maranello working for the Formula one program. So it's crazy. There are so many people involved. And whenever you achieve that as a team, it's such an incredible feeling. Yeah. Victory, the taste of victory is what motivates me every morning I wake up and I think about that every day. That is a bit more difficult to wake up and go in training. I think about winning a world championship one day and the feeling that it gives me. And so, yeah, this is what motivates me.

Yeah, let's manifest it right now, like you did with what you said to your father. Let's, let's fast forward, and it's manifested the world championships here. What would you, what would you say to that self from here? What would you say to your future self?

Well done. First, that is a pretty easy, easy one to remember all your career, your journey, and to remember every single difficult moments where you thought you wouldn't make it. These difficult moments that I went through, my career. Sometimes you tend to think, I'm not gonna make it to Formula one. I'm not gonna make it to become a world champion. So, yeah, if I become world champion, I will tell that to my, to myself to think about every single moment where I thought this wouldn't be possible. And this is also something that I tell myself today to the younger person. I was sometimes thinking, I will never make it to form one. There are only 20 drivers in the world. Why me? And, yeah, to remember those moments and tell yourself that it's possible, with hard work, with motivation, it's possible to do anything.

Charles. Well, you're definitely winning at the race of life, for sure. I can tell. It's wonderful to engage with you and connect with you and just. We're definitely manifesting it right now. Want to see it happen and, you know, can't wait for it, because you deserve it, I can tell.

Thank you.

The grace with which you carry yourself and, and the humility and the gratitude is really beautiful, and I think that those are the kind of winners we need in the world as well. I think the world is starving for winners that have great character and have great morals and, you know, have their values in the right place. Like, I look at that, I always think that if the most successful and the most talented and most impactful people in the world are walking in that graceful way, then that's going to impact so many younger generations and so many others. Do you, how often do you get to work with younger drivers and people are up and coming and, like, do you enjoy that? Do you?

I love it. I love it. I had actually an incredible experience. I went to a karting race, I think it was few months ago, like three, four months ago. It had been a long time. I didn't go into a karting race watching kids. I have my younger cousin, actually, that is starting karting that I went to. I went to see him and I got there and I mean, I didn't have any expectations. I arrived to the track and all the kids were around me and looking with the eyes full of joy and admiration. And that made me come back a little bit when I was a kid. And a Formula One driver will get to the track and you will see him like God. And to see that in kids eyes was something super, super special. Because at the end, I live my own life. But sometimes I don't really realize that I am now a Formula One Ferrari driver, which is something very special and something I've always dreamt of, as I've been saying many, many times. But for me, I'm still me. For my mom, I'm still her son. So I'm staying with people that it's normal to be around me.

But then once I get to the kids and to the karting races that don't see Formula One drivers every day, you can understand how special it is. And the smallest gesture, and this I remember from being a kid, the smallest gesture that the formula driver will have towards me. It will change my life for months. I'll think about that. I met Michael Schumacher when I was seven or six years old, and I remember that day still as it was yesterday. So, yeah, I really spent time with the kids and trying to make them the happiest possible. And it was amazing to see the impacts that it had for, for them and how happy they left from just meeting me. For me, it's nothing. I spent, what, an hour with them, but for them, I'm sure it meant a lot. And that was very special to see that.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Do you believe that the life you're living is that it's been created from your mind or a vision or training? Like, how do you think about how what has happened? Is it hard work? Is it effort? Is it attitude? Is it all of those things? Is it something bigger than you? Is there a higher power? Like, what is it for you? How do you describe the journey so far?

I think clear vision is what helped me since a very, very young age. Because even though I started at three and a half, maybe from three and a half to five, it was only for fun, but already from five every time I was getting to the track. Yes, I love what I do, but I want to be the best. This was super important for me to get away off the track the evening and to have learned something new and to have done a step in terms of driving and understanding of the karting and all of these kind of things. And this, I've always kept it. I was very clear in setting my goals, realistic goals, and in where I wanted to be. Not in 1015 years time, because this was way too far, but in one or two months time, which were small steps, but small steps always in the right direction. And I think that definitely helped me in achieving small goals after small goals to get to the bigger goal, which was obviously to become a Formula One driver, and even more so with Ferrari. But it's with the different small steps that I've.

And the different targets that I've fixed myself throughout my career.

Absolutely, Charles. We end every episode of on purpose with a final five. So these final five questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence.

Okay.

Maximum.

All right.

So tight. So these are your fast five. Drive fast. Now you got to talk fast. You don't have to answer them fast. They're just shorter answers. Question number one. Charles, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

I'll use the one off my father. Stay humble, be grateful, and work hard. That is one sentence, right?

Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, no, that's perfect. That's perfect. All right. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received on your journey?

Don't do this mistake. I think you've got to do mistakes in order to learn from them and to become the person that you are then 20 years after. Otherwise, you. Yeah, so, yeah, I think every mistakes, as I said earlier, I think I always tend to think that it's a positive thing because you grow from them.

Absolutely. Question number three. How do you prepare on a big day for a race? On the day. And how do you end the day after the race?

Cold baths. I started and I end it that way.

Well, both sides?

Yeah, yeah. It's a. I love it. It's great for the body, especially for our sport. Inside the cockpit, we are going through extremely high temperatures. So to put the body as low as possible before the race is super important. And then I do the cold bath again for recovery after that. And that also wakes me up if I'm a bit tired in the morning. So. Yes, cold baths.

Nice. Yeah. And I've seen you do cryotherapy as well.

Exactly.

Yeah. I do a lot of infrared saunas and cold plunges and.

Okay.

Yeah, it's fantastic. Question number four. What is something you've learned about yourself through your Formula one journey? Something you've learned about yourself personally that.

I'm much stronger than what I initially thought. You get into Formula one and I was still a kid. So you get into a team with 1500 people, with media, with a lot of pressure. And straight away you ask a bit yourself sometimes, am I ready for this? I used to do carting on my own with my father as a mechanic. And now I'm in Formula one with 1500 people working in order to make the best car for me. Lots of media attention, lots of pressure. Am I ready for this? I am. So, yeah, maybe that I am stronger than what I initially thought.

I love that. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest. If you could create one law or rule in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?

I mean, it's a very simple one, but I think be nice and respectful to everybody. I think is extremely important. And sometimes the world lacks that. This is something that I always remind myself. In a way, it comes natural. But I think it's super important to just be nice, genuine with people around you, whoever this person is. And if everybody in the world will be like that, I think the world will be a much better place.

Absolutely. Charles, is there anything I haven't asked you that you wanted to share today that you. That's on your heart, that's in your mind, that you're like, Jay, I really wanted to talk about this and maybe we haven't touched on it. I want to give you the floor to share anything.

I think it's been a really good talk. So. No, I think you've touched. You've touched everything.

Okay, good. Yeah. No, I wanted to give you the opportunity because I'm so grateful that we got to have this time. And definitely the words I'm going to remember you by is grateful and humble. I love those words. I love that that's how you family raised you. I love that theme coming out in our conversation today. I felt I could feel your genuine. You still have a childlike love for what you do.

All of these, for sure.

And I think that that is so rare. It can, you know, we all get tired, jaded, stressed, whatever. And that's natural. But it's amazing that you've held on to that. And I think it's credit to your beautiful parents and family that have.

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

So, thank you, man. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

If you love this episode, you will love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

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